Big Guy Wants 2 Learn 2 Fight

[BlondBomber]

Hello to everyone. I am new to this board, but not Elite Fitness. My question is this, what art is best for a big guy to train to maximize his physical size, height and strength. I have tried both American boxing and kick boxing, but I feel that both under utilize my physical abilities and do not provide me with efficient fighting tactics. This is by no means a rip on either art, I just always felt that not being able to grap opponents put me at a disadavantage. The teachers of both arts that I had a few lessons with liked my strength, and the Muay Thai guy said that being tall with long legs and arms is good, but when I would fight someone, I would get my ass kicked. Now I know that I should be getting my ass kicked being a newbie, but the thing is I could have remedied it very quickly with a body slam or take down in my fights (I wrestled one year in high school).
Should I try BJJ? I am interested in being able to back up the image I put forth as abigger guy, but honestly currently all I could do is land a hard right cross or slam someone through/into something. I am not interested in starting fights by any means (never been in a street fight), but I am also not looking for any spirituality or anything not relating to fighting. This is why I think BBJ would be good, it seems more like a fighting system than an art.
So, basically, what would be good for a tall guy that has a strong back (520-30 deadlift)? I know that I would learn how to strike, but I don't think that is where my strength would lie. Any suggestions?

P.S. Being a newbie, I hope I have not stepped on any toes with my inquiry/objectives.

 

[Dirk Howat]

Hello to everyone. what art is best for a big guy to train to maximize his physical size, height and strength.

Grappling.

I powerlift and bodybuild and when I do BJJ and submission wrestling, my joints hurt like a bitch. When I do not grapple, my tendons are fine.

Grappling involves technique, but if you grappled before, you understand that there is alot of strength involved.

If you are striker, then hitting the heavy bag can increat your strength and therefore physical size. Nothing can increase you height.











.

 

[B18222]

The two arts you mentioned above as well as BJJ are all effective arts which work great for guys of all sizes, but bjj being able to cater to the smaller guy more. Can't go wrong with either, but if you find you are more of a grappler than a striker naturally, yeah give BJJ a shot. Just be prepared to get your ass handed to you until you learn to defend subs... you'll have to get rid of some wrestling habits that leave you vulnerable, but having a base experience in grappling like wrestling will facilitate your learning curve.

 

[tbuz67]

Its good to hear your taking up self-defense. Currently, there are very many schools popping up based on reality fighting that many of them are exactly what you are probably looking for. Until the last ten years, the majority of practitioners focused mostly on striking disciplines. After the UFC became popular, everyone became interested in groundfighting, BJJ in particular thanks to Royce Gracie and his successes in the Octagon. Now the scene is even beyond that, with fighters being able to counter the takedown game of the pure groundfighters. So at this point, the emphasis is on both groundfighting and stand-up striking. The fighters out there are not only learning takedowns, but defenses against takedowns to keep the fight standing. The groundfighter then has to learn standup fighting to deal with this. So everyone is learning everything nowadays! But this is mostly the evolution of MMA fighters; most people on the street won't be so advanced in their tactics. But despite this, there are schools out there that will give you both stand up and groundfighting, including BBJ techniques and strategies, because of this evolution in hand to hand fighting. Its a great time to learn.

 

[Lord_Suston]

Well a few questions are needed to be asked

How long did you box for and did you evr have matches??
I agree with tbuz67, being able to defend oneself is basically learning how to fight your fight against an opponent, with a better standup fighter I woul take it to the ground and vice versa. So if you are proficient in a standup art I suggest either Freestyle grappling or BJJ, although I like shootfighting

 

[BlondBomber]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I think that I will try and get into some BJJ. I live in San Diego, so I know that there are a number of studios here, including Ken Shamrock's in National City, CA.
To answer you Lord_Suston, I boxed for a total of about 5-6 lessons. I never sparred with boxing. With kickboxing I probably had about the same amount of lessons, and sparred about twice getting my ass kicked.
I would imagine that learning a standing up fighting style would be good because since I don't plan to fight competitively, the vast majority of my moves would be executed from a standing positions.
What is shootfighting?

 

[Lord_Suston]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I think that I will try and get into some BJJ. I live in San Diego, so I know that there are a number of studios here, including Ken Shamrock's in National City, CA.
To answer you Lord_Suston, I boxed for a total of about 5-6 lessons. I never sparred with boxing. With kickboxing I probably had about the same amount of lessons, and sparred about twice getting my ass kicked.
I would imagine that learning a standing up fighting style would be good because since I don't plan to fight competitively, the vast majority of my moves would be executed from a standing positions.
What is shootfighting?

Shootfighting is a type of grappling where depending on rules, large joint manipulations and chokeouts are allowed and throwing is as well. Like freestyle but with tapouts and other viscous moves. I would take some type of standup class though, IMO you had too little up top fighting. Find a schools that does both

 

[BlondBomber]

Cool. I think I will look for a school that teaches shootfighting. Throws, joint manipulation and submission holds are what I want to learn because I want to be able to incompasitate people without actually doing any permanent damage (as a big guy hurting someone never works out because I always get the blame, no matter the situation).

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Just make it simple on yourself and take BJJ and muay thai.

Don't get much better rounded than that.

 

[Lord_Suston]

Just make it simple on yourself and take BJJ and muay thai.

Don't get much better rounded than that.

Both are good, but sometimes yuo need a grappling art with throws and agressive takedowns. muay thai is tough as hell. I say find a place that has both or MMA as a prioritized part of their training

 

[Tom Treutlein]

So the most rounded, you think, would be BJJ, Muay Thai, and Shootfighting, Suston?

What about Krav Maga or Arnis? How do they compare to the above three? I never really learned what Arnis was about and have heard it's pretty viable.

 

[jnevin]

Prepare.... For the windmill of death!!!!

 

[Vectork39]

personally i like the right hook from Africa, haha i saw a 6'10" bouncer (weighing close to 420 and was an amateur boxer) land the most devasting punch i've ever seen, the guy came towards him, he turned around stepped into it with all his weight and hit the guy running towards him at optimal range. the guys head nearly came off his body, whipping his neck backwards and sent him back in the air horizontally about 15 feet or more. ambulance soon came, broken neck, spinal cord and his face was mangled with his jaw being broken his cheek bones shattered, nose completely crushed, both orbitals shattered and back of his skull cracked with a few teeth missing. and from what i''ve heard this guy is still in critical but stable condition in GWUniversity hospital, and will never again walk, talk, or eat normally. Bouncer would've been in deep shit but after looking at this guys prior fighting and violence record, charges were dropped (the 10 or so witnessed didnt hurt either).

i dont know why i got into this random story but it seemed like a cool fighting story.....hey big guy, you can do some damage so dont be afraid to get ur ass handed to you at first, and let me tell you if you know a couple solid takedowns and holds, your big ass can definitely inflict a major amount of damage in just a few hits. so yuo'd be a threat to the majority of the population, which is probably your underlying goal...

 

[Lord_Suston]

So the most rounded, you think, would be BJJ, Muay Thai, and Shootfighting, Suston?

What about Krav Maga or Arnis? How do they compare to the above three? I never really learned what Arnis was about and have heard it's pretty viable.

it really depends on the person and their temperment, plus physical attributes. For a taller fighter I would suggest a stand-up style that incorporates longer techniques, muay thai and maybe a ground technique such as BJJ.

For smaller fighters with thicker torsoes, I recommend Shootfighting and maybe some JKD or shotokhan. Krav maga is good for what is does but most people need to realize that fighting styles should play to the benefits of the fighter.

I am rather short to make a good kickboxer, since my legs are roughly the same length as my arms and really thick. So I decide to learn boxing due to fast foot work and reaction time, and then freestyle grappling to complement my center of gravity and strong core.

It is good to know how to fight but honestly speaking it not worth fighting anybody. since most people can't fight you never really need to worry, plus the funny thing is most people who can fight try not to

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I agree with that last part. I more want to do it just to please myself. Keep myself occupied, learn new things, experience as much as I can before I go. I want to learn a bunch of arts, truthfully, but the most functional ones are top priority.

I don't want to fight anyone. Just to be able to protect myself and anyone else, should the situation occur.

I'm 6' and have relatively long legs, so I'd be better off with Muay Thai and BJJ then. I've always been interested in those, so it works out.

 

[BlondBomber]

personally i like the right hook from Africa, haha i saw a 6'10" bouncer (weighing close to 420 and was an amateur boxer) land the most devasting punch i've ever seen, the guy came towards him, he turned around stepped into it with all his weight and hit the guy running towards him at optimal range. the guys head nearly came off his body, whipping his neck backwards and sent him back in the air horizontally about 15 feet or more. ambulance soon came, broken neck, spinal cord and his face was mangled with his jaw being broken his cheek bones shattered, nose completely crushed, both orbitals shattered and back of his skull cracked with a few teeth missing. and from what i''ve heard this guy is still in critical but stable condition in GWUniversity hospital, and will never again walk, talk, or eat normally. Bouncer would've been in deep shit but after looking at this guys prior fighting and violence record, charges were dropped (the 10 or so witnessed didnt hurt either).

i dont know why i got into this random story but it seemed like a cool fighting story.....hey big guy, you can do some damage so dont be afraid to get ur ass handed to you at first, and let me tell you if you know a couple solid takedowns and holds, your big ass can definitely inflict a major amount of damage in just a few hits. so yuo'd be a threat to the majority of the population, which is probably your underlying goal...

Damn, the best story I have also includes a large, African bouncer, but he did not fuck up his opponent like yours. We threw this guy out of the club I was working at, and basically he called the bouncer (my boss) a n#%$2^ and rushed him. My boss was about 6'6'' and probably 310ish, he picked this skinny Eminem look-a-like and slammed him into the pavement. After holding him with his face in the pavement for about 15 minutes the cops came and took the guy away. I was encharge of making his friend sit down and shut up (oh yeah, powertrip for an 18 year old kid!). My story also has no real purpose.

And yes, being threatening to the general public is my goal, but I want to learn how to do so without incurring any legal or insurance-related troubles. This is the reason that I don't want to learn a style that emphasizes striking.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Doesn't matter if you don't emphasize striking. You can easily break someone's arm with a little know how.

 

[BlondBomber]

My point being is that I want to learn how to restrain someone without breaking their arm. I don't like jail, and I don't want to ever go there.

 

[Judo Tom]

go check out a judo class.. very little if any striking great throws and take downs.. a decent amount of ground time depending on the instructor.. and its loads of fun
check out a class and see what you think.. if you have any questions feel free to ask but it seems like it is close to what you are looking for.. not that there is anything wrong with bjj

 

[BlondBomber]

Judo sounds like a good idea. I know that BJJ works, I just always get an extremely aggressive vibe from it. This makes sense since it is geared towards to events like Ultimate Fighting. I think Judo would probably be better for me.

 

[Judo Tom]

www.judoinfo.com

ju = gentle
do = way

so most likely if you find a club in your area it will be filled with good people no attitudes

you will get a great workout and learn some techniques that can save you if need be
and depending on your instructor self defense MIGHT be part of the teachings.. if not just get good and then use the techniques on the street..

there are some great schools near you as well if you need help please let me know

good luck

 

[PURE EXTRACT]

personally i like the right hook from Africa, haha i saw a 6'10" bouncer (weighing close to 420 and was an amateur boxer) land the most devasting punch i've ever seen, the guy came towards him, he turned around stepped into it with all his weight and hit the guy running towards him at optimal range. the guys head nearly came off his body, whipping his neck backwards and sent him back in the air horizontally about 15 feet or more. ambulance soon came, broken neck, spinal cord and his face was mangled with his jaw being broken his cheek bones shattered, nose completely crushed, both orbitals shattered and back of his skull cracked with a few teeth missing. and from what i''ve heard this guy is still in critical but stable condition in GWUniversity hospital, and will never again walk, talk, or eat normally. Bouncer would've been in deep shit but after looking at this guys prior fighting and violence record, charges were dropped (the 10 or so witnessed didnt hurt either).

i dont know why i got into this random story but it seemed like a cool fighting story.....hey big guy, you can do some damage so dont be afraid to get ur ass handed to you at first, and let me tell you if you know a couple solid takedowns and holds, your big ass can definitely inflict a major amount of damage in just a few hits. so yuo'd be a threat to the majority of the population, which is probably your underlying goal...

Damn where the hell was this??

 

[BlondBomber]

www.judoinfo.com

ju = gentle
do = way

so most likely if you find a club in your area it will be filled with good people no attitudes

you will get a great workout and learn some techniques that can save you if need be
and depending on your instructor self defense MIGHT be part of the teachings.. if not just get good and then use the techniques on the street..

there are some great schools near you as well if you need help please let me know

good luck

Thanks for the info, I will check the site out.

 

[Judo Tom]

go check out a class somewhere and see what you think..

 

[bullish]

BOMBER, I am also a bounce of significant size... I am taking a KEMPO, JUJITSU, Muay Thai class and it is great... The more you practice the more you will know the point of when to back off the pressure and not break anything... One of the best parts of my class - that no one seems to mention on the boards is breathing.. We concentrate on breathing at the end of my classes... Basic diaphragm breathing… I used to lose my mind when a fight breaks out in my club.. I am much more calm and cerebral and I think that is partially a result of me being in control of my breathing.

It is also good to know striking for when you are really outnumbered…. Just my .02 cents...

 

[Judo Tom]

good post bullish..

blondbomber: did you ever visit some schools in your area?

 

[bullish]

Also Bomber -- dont be afraid to ask your sensie/sifu questions... Because of my size and the lack of tall guys in my class i often learn Alternatives to what the rest of class is doing... I am a huge fan of elbows now just because i usually end up getting so close because of my long stride...

 

[Djimbe]

I was Looking through some old Posts on the Martial Arts Board (Im new to Elite Fitness' forums , but not to Martial Arts by a Long shot) and I came upon your Thread about finding a school ... Unfortunately you got the WORSTY kind of Responses that you could EVER get for Martial Arts .

You got ppl telling you about STYLES .

STYLES are great , they are systems of educating ppl in The Fighting Method .

Unfortunately there are 2 Problems with asking for a Good Martial Art , and hearing about STYLES .

1) Half the styles in Existence were made up by people that have NOI clue as to what theyre on about . (think about Bodybuilding and the advice given out by so-called "Gurus" , and you will see the possibilities)

2) A STYLE is only as good as the TEACHER or SCHOOL thats delivering it . There are good and poor learning environments in EVERY style , and the fact that ALL that you heard about was the systems that are Popular right now shows quite a bit about he level of those that you were talking to .

Here is where I truly think is your best bet for what you described I know these fist two teachers PERSONALLY , and I have SEEN what they can do , and the Value of what it is they teach . In fact , I currently take classes in the First system with a student of Maistre Dotour :


Capoeira is VERY Dificult for us big guys , but Im not a Pansie , and you CANT be to do it . It gives us everything for our Bodies that BBing/PLing does NOT , Suppleness , Fluidity , Grace , and Flexibility . Unfortunately , MOST BBs stray FAR from this type of thing (Much Like Yoga) because they arent used to looking foolish , and as a beginner you have to EAT your Ego , and LOOK like you arent built for the stuff . But I assure you , with time it comes - even to MY 400lb ass ! Its the same Paragraph Ill use to Describe Wushu , later , but they are VERY Similar, and VERY Difficut on the Big man - but GREAT Cardio ! Bonuses :

1) You can take it along with ANY other MA , and its only $10/class !

2) You learn Musical Instruments , how to Play them , and also how to Sing

3) THE WOMEN ! Ive never seen more Hookups than IN Capoiera . ANd the women ALL Look like Fitness Compeditors (bit better , actually - less 'fake')

4) You learn how to Dance

5) You learn TOTAL Body Control .

Classes @ A Time To Dance Performing Arts Studio
3982 30th Street
North Park
San Diego, CA 92104
(619) 297-6401
Tuesday 8:30- 10:00 pm
Friday 7:30 - 9:00 pm

Classes @ Culture Shock Dance Center
2110 Hancock St, Suite 200
Old Town
San Diego, CA 92110
(619) 299-2110
Thursday 7:30- 9:30 pm

For more info, contact [email protected]


Mike Patterson
8204 Parkway Dr. #1-5
La Mesa, CA 91942
(619) 698-6389
[email protected]
www.hsing-i.com
Hsing I Chuan
Pa Kua Chang
Chen Tai Chi
Liou He Ba Fah

Information on the systems taught in at the Above school (they are designed to go together) can be found at :

http://www.hsing-i.com/pics/index.html
Lots of Vids there , Look them over and Listen to the man making sense . And yeah , he looks lke a Pencil-Necked Geek - but that will make it all the MORE frustratin when you meet him and cant lay a finger on him .

Or at :
http://www.emptyflower.com/xingyiquan/index.html

This is another Excellent school :
http://www.sdtaichi.com/

The difference here is that they have Multiple Teachers and Disciplines brought together to give students a more complete Martial Education spectrum lke is done in China .

Wushu is VERY Dificult for us big guys , but Im not a Pansie , and you CANT be to do it . It gives us everything for our Bodies that BBing/PLing does NOT , Suppleness , Fluidity , Grace , and Flexibility . Unfortunately , MOST BBs stray FAR from this type of thing (Much Like Yoga) because they arent used to looking foolish , and as a beginner you have to EAT your Ego , and LOOK like you arent built for the stuff . But I assure you , with time it comes - even to MY 400lb ass !

Wing Chun is a GREAT Combat system . For some of the BEST artcles EVER written on the Subject please direct yourself to :

http://www.tempewingchun.com/content_article.html
You stay on your Feet , you learn to Close-In Box/ Trip , Grapple , Subdue - everything .

The Above comes from KNOWING the SD area , and who is Good in town . I have been Practicing for 25+ years , and hope that you at least do some reading at the links that I gave you or AT LEAST watch the Videos before making up your mind . There are 2 things that will hurt you in your Quest for a Martial Art

1) Your own Ignorance :

Why should you do a MA just because its Popular ? The Backstreet Boys are POPULAR , does it make them any good ? Trust me when I say tat the most Popular systems that you always hear about are NOT the Best out there , Just the most Popular .

2) Backwards Thinking :

DO NOT go to the school/system that seems Easiest or most Comfortable to you . Do Champion Bodybuilders win by making their Biggest parts even Bigger ? I dont remember Matarazzo winning any Olympias ... No , CHAMPIONS do whats HARD , they work on their WEAKNESSES - NOT their Strengths .

 

[bloodworks]

I feel that frappling is very difficult for big guys because of flexibility and the limits on movement. I am small figured and out grapple big bodybuilders but they always use brute force other than techniqe. I reccomend for a big guy to stick with boxing some basics in wrestling to get comfortable with the ground.

 

[Kane Fan]

go to an MMA school

 

[Kane Fan]

Grappling.

I powerlift and bodybuild and when I do BJJ and submission wrestling, my joints hurt like a bitch. When I do not grapple, my tendons are fine.

Grappling involves technique, but if you grappled before, you understand that there is alot of strength involved.

If you are striker, then hitting the heavy bag can increat your strength and therefore physical size. Nothing can increase you height.











.

he didn't mean which art would make him bigger and stronger
he ment which art would his strength and size help him the most in

 

[Kane Fan]

Just make it simple on yourself and take BJJ and muay thai.

Don't get much better rounded than that.

you'd certainly be solid but you wouldn't be as well rounded as you could in that situation I don't think
I am not strongly familar with BJJ so they may have slams, but if not that is an avenue of attack you would be denying yourself and therefore leave yourself somewhat open to it
also Thai is generally very solid in the Clinch but many times at longer range their punches are rather weak and they have only 1 - 3 kicks to try and work
so they could wind up vulnerable there
that is not to say there is not a Thai teacher out there that really works people's punches or anything like that, just a general trend I have noticed

goign with those styles tho you would be solid just some things would be open
and besides that if you go to any MMA school you will likely get the basics of both those arts as well as slams (and how to defend against them)
also Ground and Pound, which is usually a great option for a big strong guy

 

[Kane Fan]

BOMBER, I am also a bounce of significant size... I am taking a KEMPO, JUJITSU, Muay Thai class and it is great... The more you practice the more you will know the point of when to back off the pressure and not break anything... One of the best parts of my class - that no one seems to mention on the boards is breathing.. We concentrate on breathing at the end of my classes... Basic diaphragm breathing… I used to lose my mind when a fight breaks out in my club.. I am much more calm and cerebral and I think that is partially a result of me being in control of my breathing.

It is also good to know striking for when you are really outnumbered…. Just my .02 cents...

excellent point
the best grappler in the world, would still be better off working strikes if he is outnumbered
2 on 1 maybe for a good grappler
3 on 1 is POTENTIALLY doable for one of the true greats of matwork
but more then that I don't care who you are, you arn't choking out all of them before one lands a boot to your head and makes you wonder who you are and why you are bleeding
tho really with those numbers striking isn't that much better unless you are dropping a person with 1 or 2 shots max
if it is taking you 3 hits to drop people, again more then 2 or 3 of them and you are probubly not going to win

 

[Djimbe]

go to an MMA school

But SOME MMA schools SUCK .

Sorry mate but its True .

SOMEONE is our there LOSING every single match that someone is WINING out there , and SOME schools are PRODUCING these Tomato Cans .

Oh , and not everyone is anywhere NEAR any MMA school .

 

[Kane Fan]

that's true
I lucked out
a pretty damned good MMA trainer is a friend of mine