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Best Drink To Pack On Solid Mass

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arzhan

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I'd been on Megamass 4000 for the last 3 months or so, but feel there should be something better than this.

Is Megamass 2000 good enough to pack on mass? I'm targettin some 15-20 pounds alongstwith Dbol/Equi/Deca

Any suggestion that could replace MegaMass2000 with any other brands. Help appreciated
 
strange cycle, if you drink dog urine you will get big. Thats what my friend told me, who's friend knows his cousins brother who is a pro.
 
N-Large 2 works well. The problem with most weight gainers in the 2000+ calorie range is that they are loaded with sugars, which can bring on lots of fat while bulking. N-Large 2 has fairly high calories, a lot of carbs, and lower sugars. Give that one a try.
 
You could try prolabs nlarge or you could just mix 2 scoops of regular whey with milk + banana + flax, or peanut butter + scoop of ice cream.
 
ruffian3 said:
You could try prolabs nlarge or you could just mix 2 scoops of regular whey with milk + banana + flax, or peanut butter + scoop of ice cream.

i did this and it worked really well for putting on the lbs. im an endomorph though and a lot more than i wanted of the 30+lbs i put on that cycle where fat. if you have a really high metabolism, this may be just what you need to get in the calories for growth. as for me, i stick to just the simple protein powders now and add PB/olive oil, a 1/2 cup of instant oatmeal, a banana or two and season it up with cinnemon/nutmeg or some of the lowsugar instant cocoa mixes. works well for me without putting on so much fat.
 
if you dont want to go the "lets just load up on a tone of sugar at any cost route"

do this

guaranteed resluts plus a slew of health benifits

you should have a shake with this breakdown.

5 scoops of chocolate WHEY
2 scoops of Gplenish glutamine peptides
1 banana
5-10 gams of creatine
2 caps glucorell-r
 
as posted by THEEGAME2544
N-Large 2 works well. The problem with most weight gainers in the 2000+ calorie range is that they are loaded with sugars, which can bring on lots of fat while bulking. N-Large 2 has fairly high calories, a lot of carbs, and lower sugars. Give that one a try.

Touche bro, touche!! I agree with ya, cos I use N-large2 for bulking and isolate for when I'm dieting. Prolab does the best shakes IMO, I love them.

Peace
 
never treid n large before but I agree on milk. It adds protein and carbs and is an easy way to add cals. I dont know how great liquid cals(mass gainers) are for bulking anyway bc I would think that those mass gainers have a tendency to turn to fat quicker than whole foods which need to be digested thus using up a few more calories.
 
Are you looking for meal supplementation or post-exercise recovery drinks?


Most "mass gainers" you will find are simply combinations of very high glycemic carbohydrates, protein, and maybe some fat. Quite frankly, they suck for so called "meal replacement." Eat them frequently and they will pack on the same kind of mass as load of sugar cookies and milk.

If you are looking for a good post-exercise recovery/anabolism stimulatory drink, many of these mass gainers fit the bill quite nicely.


If you are looking for what the current science says is the most optimal post-exercise recovery drink, shoot for something that has a 4 to 1 ratio of high glycemic carbohydrate to high BV protein. A good combo would be maltodextrin (which has the ability to rapidly restore muscle glycogen during post-exercise conditions without throwing out exessive free radicals) and a quality whey such as hydrolized whey, ion exchange, or CFM.

For a recreational athlete, 100 grams of maltodextrin and 25 grams of a good whey fit the bill nicely. For an advanced athlete engaged in high intensity training, double those numbers for 200 grams of maltodextrin and *50 grams of protein.

*Please note that 50 grams of protein as prescribed here WILL NOT be fully absorbed UNLESS a hydrolized whey is used.


Small amounts of fat may be used, but don't go overboard as they will slow the absorption of both the carbohydrate and protein - both of which your body will attempt to absorb like a sponge post-exercise.
 
I think the notion that sugar is poison, except after a workout when it becomes something magical is all a bunch of baloney.

All eight gain is contingent on calories. Why add all that crap to a protein drink? Just eat more. Buy bland protin from PF for half the price and add Nestle's Quik, or if you prefer, Nestles' Quik sugar free. If you want more calories, just mix it with whole milk, or half and half or ice cream. It'll taste a lot better than N-large and it's a better quality protein.
 
weightgain shake

hey i read your guestion and I took Nlarge2 for a while and i put on 20 pounds in 4 weeks one shake as a meal replacement and one before bed it worked pretty well i also used creatine monohydrate and i ate around 3000 calories a day it really worked well for me
 
Nelson Montana said:
I think the notion that sugar is poison, except after a workout when it becomes something magical is all a bunch of baloney.
I think you have a very limited understanding of the physiology of exercise.
 
Re: weightgain shake

protobe said:
hey i read your guestion and I took Nlarge2 for a while and i put on 20 pounds in 4 weeks one shake as a meal replacement and one before bed it worked pretty well i also used creatine monohydrate and i ate around 3000 calories a day it really worked well for me
You're no Muscle Warrior.
 
Silent - for the post-workout drink, besides what you mentioned before - do you think adding Glucorell-R would be beneficial to maximize the glucogen replenishment or is it just a waste of $$ at that time?
 
Nelson Montana said:
I think the notion that sugar is poison, except after a workout when it becomes something magical is all a bunch of baloney.

Its hard not to say this - you are, quite simply...an idiot. How about you look at the issue from an endomorph perspective - its easy to say that sugar is okay when you've been a damn stick figure most of your life.
 
poantrex said:


Its hard not to say this - you are, quite simply...an idiot. How about you look at the issue from an endomorph perspective - its easy to say that sugar is okay when you've been a damn stick figure most of your life.


The fact that you think I judge all my opinions solely from my personal experience and nothing else is ignorant enough, but you didn't even understand what was being said.

Isn't it funny how the most antagonism comes from those who are the most clueless.
 
Nlarge is great stuff. Go for that.

Lots of calories and a good amount of protien. The shakes are rather thin and not thick, so they don't completely fill you up as a Myoplex shake might do.
 
Nelson Montana said:
The fact that you think I judge all my opinions solely from my personal experience and nothing else is ignorant enough, but you didn't even understand what was being said.

Isn't it funny how the most antagonism comes from those who are the most clueless.
The fact is he did misread your post. The fact remains you have little comprehension of exercise physiology in this matter.
 
Nelson Montana said:



The fact that you think I judge all my opinions solely from my personal experience and nothing else is ignorant enough, but you didn't even understand what was being said.

Isn't it funny how the most antagonism comes from those who are the most clueless.

My apologies, I did misread the post. However, the fact remains that most of your theories are quackery at best.
 
poantrax: Fair enough. And it's okay if you think my theories are quakery. As long as they work. And they do. All great minds are thought of as quacks until the common mind catches up to them. :)

Silent: I know you're just chomping at the bit trying toput me down, but don't make a fool of yourself. Apparently my knowledge of exercise phisiology is good enough for Powerlfting Champ Dennis Weiss, and for Mr. Universe Dave Draper and Exercise authority Lou Shuler. Hey, I admit, there no Silent Method, but they aint bad. Oh yeah, there are also the thousands of people who've benefited from my programs. Guess they don't count either.
 
Nelson Montana said:
I think the notion that sugar is poison, except after a workout when it becomes something magical is all a bunch of baloney.

All eight gain is contingent on calories. Why add all that crap to a protein drink? Just eat more. Buy bland protin from PF for half the price and add Nestle's Quik, or if you prefer, Nestles' Quik sugar free. If you want more calories, just mix it with whole milk, or half and half or ice cream. It'll taste a lot better than N-large and it's a better quality protein.

I don't think sugar is magical after a work-out, but dextrose is the most effective way to replenish muscle tissue after a work-out. In addition the quick absorption when coupled with ion exchange whey will allow you to consume another post workout meal of whole food within an hour to an hour and a half after a workout. So.... while sugar isn't magic dust... it is the most effective for replenishment. Ice Cream, whole milk etc... are poor substitutes. I know... because I used this approach for years and it was inferior to say the least.
 
IHateCrunches said:
NELSON: BALONEY IS SPELLED BOLOGNA. You never competed in a spelling bee?

actually bologna is a food and baloney a word used to describe complete nonsense.;)
 
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Are you guys missing the fact that he is doing some weird cycle that does not include Test and he is wondering how to gain mass?????? I use cheap ass whey protein and a high protein diet like many others here. Which protein shake is rather minuscule in the whole scheme of things.
 
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Nelson Montana said:
Silent: I know you're just chomping at the bit trying toput me down, but don't make a fool of yourself. Apparently my knowledge of exercise phisiology is good enough for Powerlfting Champ Dennis Weiss, and for Mr. Universe Dave Draper and Exercise authority Lou Shuler. Hey, I admit, there no Silent Method, but they aint bad. Oh yeah, there are also the thousands of people who've benefited from my programs. Guess they don't count either.
:) You're just going to name drop on this one? Too funny.

Lets get straight just what are we arguing here. I do believe that high glycemic carbs should be consumed in strict moderation under normal conditions. I also believe that the phsiological conditions that exist after intense bouts of exercise (the parameters of which differ among type and duration of exercise) create a window of opportunity to take advantage of the proporties of high glycemic carbs. (If you, anyone you'd like to name, or anybody on this board would like further explination of why, I'll be happy to provide it.)


Look bro, higher glycemic carbs have an advantage lower glycemic carbs for post-exercise recovery - period. Are they absolutely necessary in order for one to meet particular goals? Of course not. Can they help serve as an advantage getting there? Hell yeah.



(BTW, I have no idea about the positions of the other two, but big Dave, although he does not utilize high GI post-exercise meals himself, understands that they have there place in the post-exercise tool bag.)
 
One: I dont like to name drop, but when a nobody know it all throws insults my way, showing who agrees with my work nicely puts things in perspective.

Two: I say you're full of shit.

Now...

Show me one reference that proves a high gycemic drink post workout grows more muscle than not taking in a high glycemic drink.

And don't post some bullshit about carbs replenishing glycogen storage. We all knew that before you were alive. Prove to me exactly how and why it grows more muscle. I'll be waiting.
 
Getting back to the man's question, that particular products you're using really stinks. I know because I was dumb enough to buy it once. Notice it has beef protein in it (i.e. ground cast away cow parts from god-knows-what cattle source -- like a mad cow soup for ya). Also, the first ingredient (and labels list the biggest ingredient first in US) is sugar (dextrin), check yourself. You are drinking $40 sugar water. Also, I used to have 5 shakes a day and couldn't break 200 (I had weighed 260 before but high bodyfat. I mean since I attained low bodyfat, I couldn't break 200 at 5'10"). So I am actually off cycle now, so I decided to eat. Just graze, graze, graze. For example, I had a boiled egg to start this post, a little spagghetti 15 min later, now just got some cottage cheese. Later on, some nuts, some milk. Just keep grazing all day long on high protein FOOD. I have broken 200 today, off cycle with FOOD. Eat -- it's cheap, natural, and the stores never run out of food. If you must know, I drink 2 shakes now/ day (Myoplex deluxe), I'm gaining much, much better. Eat up buddy, f*ck the scam shakes. (If you can't eat any more, fire up some weed and eat again :) ) Anabolic as hell -- grazing -- just look at cows - they're huge.
 
Nelson Montana said:
One: I dont like to name drop, but when a nobody know it all throws insults my way, showing who agrees with my work nicely puts things in perspective.

Two: I say you're full of shit.

Now...

Show me one reference that proves a high gycemic drink post workout grows more muscle than not taking in a high glycemic drink.

And don't post some bullshit about carbs replenishing glycogen storage. We all knew that before you were alive. Prove to me exactly how and why it grows more muscle. I'll be waiting.

OH, THE IRONY. How many times have we asked YOU to back your theories up with studies? Anyways, its pretty simple. Insulin shuttles nutrients to muscle cells, and they're especially in need of it after workout. It just so happens that high glycemic carbs will raise insulin levels the highest to do just that, do you really need a STUDY to prove this?
 
Nelson Montana said:
One: I dont like to name drop, but when a nobody know it all throws insults my way, showing who agrees with my work nicely puts things in perspective.
Nelson, you are the very essence of a nobody know it all. You are also the first to start with the personal insults.

Just what is "your work" regarding the effects of carbohydrate types on a post-exercise human model? I am convinced that 10% of your "work" involves reading what others have stated, forming a conclusion, and writing them out. The other 90% is spent convincing yourself that those others actually learned from and agree with YOU.

Nelson Montana said:
Two: I say you're full of shit.
I'm fine with that. I say again, you have a limited understanding of exercise physiology in this matter.

Nelson Montana said:
Now...

Show me one reference that proves a high gycemic drink post workout grows more muscle than not taking in a high glycemic drink.

And don't post some bullshit about carbs replenishing glycogen storage. We all knew that before you were alive. Prove to me exactly how and why it grows more muscle. I'll be waiting.
Show you a reference? Go to the library.

#1. If you cannot understand how "some bullshit about carbs replenishing glycogen storage" relates to athletic advantage, your comprehension of this subject is lower than I had guessed.

(BTW, the rapid glycogen replinishing proporties of high GI carbs taken post-exercise are great - but in truth, this effect is a low priority in regard to anaerobic exercise. Post-anaerobic exercise glycogen levels return to near baseline within a matter of hours with a normal diet (50% or more carbs, normal meal schedule) anyway.)

#2. While you are at the library, look up:
-Anabolism vs catabolism, and the hormones involved in the physiology of each.
- Catecholamine response to exercise.
- Insulin response to carbohydrate, and the influence of glycemic index.
- Post-exercise response to high GI carbohydrate.

Here are some hints.

*Exercise elicits a catecholamine response. (Fact. Look it up yourself.)
*Catecholamines elicit a catabolic response. (Fact. Look it up yourself.)
*Intense bouts of exercise elicit a catabolic response. (Fact. Look it up yourself.)

*Carbohydrate elicits an insulin response. (Fact. Look it up yourself.)
*Insulin elicits an anabolic/anti-catabolic response. (Fact. Look it up yourself.)
*High GI carbohydrate elicits a greater insulin response more rapidly than low GI carbohydrate. (Fact. Look it up yourself.)

*High GI carbohydrate consumed post-exercise elicits a greater, more rapid anabolic/anti-catabolic effect than low GI carbohydrate. (Fact. Look it up yourself.)



While this does follow a simple pattern of deductive reasoning, it is more than that. It has been researched, observed, and validated every step of the way. If you cannot find the references supporting these facts your either not looking, or you don't know how to look.
 
poantrex said:


OH, THE IRONY. How many times have we asked YOU to back your theories up with studies? Anyways, its pretty simple. Insulin shuttles nutrients to muscle cells, and they're especially in need of it after workout. It just so happens that high glycemic carbs will raise insulin levels the highest to do just that, do you really need a STUDY to prove this?

OH YES, IT'S VERY IRONIC! It shows how utterly clueless you, and Silent and jubel and the like are. You offer NOTHING but criticism, but when the tables are turned, you cry "foul."

You're always barking for references and SM has been doing so in a disparaging manner -- as if taking shots at me is somehow acceptable. Well, where's the proof big guy? Where are those studies that you love so much? Since you insist I present references to back up every other sentance I write it's only fair that you present just ONE.

I know I shouldn't even be arguing with these idiots, but I'm human, and every now and then I get fed up with people who just want to break balls and have to show them for the bullshitters they really are.

And poantrex, I realize you're a little dense but read slowly. I never said suger doesn't raise insulin. You're apparently too dim to understand my original question. I asked for the proof that a post workout high GI shake has been proven to build more muscle.

So Silent Method, where is it?
 
Still waiting for those references Silent.









Any time you're ready.








I thought so.




Oh, and by the way...how can my theories be both quackery AND stolen from elsewhere? Shouldn't you pick on argument or the other? Oh, I forgot. You're full of shit, aren't you.

Maybe you should just shut the fuck up and stop wasting everyone's time and let those who have actually accomplished something speak without harassment. Okay? Good boy.
 
Nelson Montana said:
OH YES, IT'S VERY IRONIC! It shows how utterly clueless you, and Silent and jubel and the like are. You offer NOTHING but criticism, but when the tables are turned, you cry "foul."

You're always barking for references and SM has been doing so in a disparaging manner -- as if taking shots at me is somehow acceptable. Well, where's the proof big guy? Where are those studies that you love so much? Since you insist I present references to back up every other sentance I write it's only fair that you present just ONE.
Your a tad slow bud. Why do you get off on your "you insist I present references to back up every other sentance" crybaby bullshit. Are still smarting from being called on your lie or ignorance in your "protein cannot be absorbed without fat" post. Why can you not muster the stuff to go back to it and produce an argument?

Newsflash - I was looking for support for your claims in ANY form. Fuck references - you gave NOTHING. No argument, no description of your reasoning - NOTHING.

Nelson Montana said:
And poantrex, I realize you're a little dense but read slowly. I never said suger doesn't raise insulin. You're apparently too dim to understand my original question. I asked for the proof that a post workout high GI shake has been proven to build more muscle.
Nelson, you're apparently too dim to understand the implications of what poantrex had written. He didn't imply that you said that sugar doesn't raise insulin. But he did just prove, through your response to him, that you are clueless on this subject.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Still waiting for those references Silent.









Any time you're ready.








I thought so.




Oh, and by the way...how can my theories be both quackery AND stolen from elsewhere? Shouldn't you pick on argument or the other? Oh, I forgot. You're full of shit, aren't you.

Maybe you should just shut the fuck up and stop wasting everyone's time and let those who have actually accomplished something speak without harassment. Okay? Good boy.
It's a shame you cannot conduct yourself in a civil manner. Your logic and reasoning is pathetic. This post (and many of your others like it) is a blatant dodge.


Address the points I made in argument for my stance on post-exercise nutrition Nelson. Stop backing away.
 
Wow, I actually agree with Nelson. I direct you to his post on page 1 as I really have nothing further to say, except that the protien does not have to be from PF.
 
]First study. Demonstrates the depletion of glycogen during heavy resistance exercise:

Glycogen and triglyceride utilization in relation to muscle metabolic characteristics in men performing heavy-resistance exercise.

Essen-Gustavsson B, Tesch PA.

Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Department of Medicine and Surgery, Uppsala.

Nine bodybuilders performed heavy-resistance exercise activating the quadriceps femoris muscle. Intermittent 30-s exhaustive exercise bouts comprising 6-12 repetitions were interspersed with 60-s periods for 30 min. Venous blood samples were taken repeatedly during and after exercise for analyses of plasma free fatty acid (FFA) and glycerol concentration. Muscle biopsies were obtained from the vastus lateralis muscle before and after exercise and assayed for glycogen, glycerol-3-phosphate, lactate and triglyceride (TG) content. The activities of citrate synthase (CS), lactate dehydrogenase, hexokinase (HK), myokinase, creatine kinase and 3-hydroxyacyl-CoA dehydrogenase (HAD), were analysed. Histochemical staining procedures were used to assess fibre type composition, fibre area and capillary density. TG content before and after exercise averaged (SD) 23.9 (13.3) and 16.7 (6.4) mmol kg-1 dry wt. The basal triglyceride content varied sixfold among individuals and the higher the levels the greater was the change during exercise. The glycogen content decreased (P less than 0.001) from 690 (82) to 495 (95) mmol kg-1 dry wt. and lactate and glycerol-3-phosphate increased (P less than 0.001) to 79.5 (5.5) and 14.5 (7.3) mmol kg-1 dry wt., respectively, after exercise. The HK and HAD/CS content respectively correlated with glycogen or TG content at rest and with changes in these metabolites during exercise. FFA and glycerol concentrations increased slightly (P less than 0.001) during exercise. Lipolysis may, therefore, provide energy during heavy-resistance exercise of relatively short duration. Also, storage and utilization of intramuscular substrates appear to be influenced by the metabolic profile of muscle.

PMID: 2289498 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

]This study is to simply demonstrate that high GI drinks will replinish Glycogen storage faster (obviously) than other drinks.

1: J Appl Physiol. 1993 Aug;75(2):1019-23. Related Articles, Links


Muscle glycogen storage after prolonged exercise: effect of the glycemic index of carbohydrate feedings.

Burke LM, Collier GR, Hargreaves M.

Department of Sports Medicine, Australian Institute of Sport, Australian Capital Territory.

The effect of the glycemic index (GI) of postexercise carbohydrate intake on muscle glycogen storage was investigated. Five well-trained cyclists undertook an exercise trial to deplete muscle glycogen (2 h at 75% of maximal O2 uptake followed by four 30-s sprints) on two occasions, 1 wk apart. For 24 h after each trial, subjects rested and consumed a diet composed exclusively of high-carbohydrate foods, with one trial providing foods with a high GI (HI GI) and the other providing foods with a low GI (LO GI). Total carbohydrate intake over the 24 h was 10 g/kg of body mass, evenly distributed between meals eaten 0, 4, 8, and 21 h postexercise. Blood samples were drawn before exercise, immediately after exercise, immediately before each meal, and 30, 60, and 90 min post-prandially. Muscle biopsies were taken from the vastus lateralis immediately after exercise and after 24 h. When the effects of the immediate postexercise meal were excluded, the totals of the incremental glucose and insulin areas after each meal were greater (P < or = 0.05) for the HI GI meals than for the LO GI meals. The increase in muscle glycogen content after 24 h of recovery was greater (P = 0.02) with the HI GI diet (106 +/- 11.7 mmol/kg wet wt) than with the LO GI diet (71.5 +/- 6.5 mmol/kg). The results suggest that the most rapid increase in muscle glycogen content during the first 24 h of recovery is achieved by consuming foods with a high GI.

PMID: 8226443 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
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poantrex, don't worry about posting study abstracts. Each fact I listed in post 39 of this thread has multiple studies to back it up:

*Exercise elicits a catecholamine response.
*Catecholamines elicit a catabolic response.
*Intense bouts of exercise elicit a catabolic response.
*Carbohydrate elicits an insulin response.
*Insulin elicits an anabolic/anti-catabolic response.
*High GI carbohydrate elicits a greater insulin response more rapidly than low GI carbohydrate.
*High GI carbohydrate consumed post-exercise elicits a greater, more rapid anabolic/anti-catabolic effect than low GI carbohydrate.

These are literally text book exercise physiology concepts. Could they be wrong? Of course - text book are revised all the time. (It wasn't very long ago when high GI carbs were not recognized to have any significant advantage for recovery after anaerobic exercise - the anabolic response was completely ignored.)

Are they wrong? Not likely. But if they are I'd sure as hell like to know.

If anybody is capable of forming a rational argument to refute any of these points, I'm all ears.






jubei, aside from the fact that high GI carbohydrates are handled very differently by the body differently following exercise (look up exercise response and it's effects on glycogen synthase and hexokinase, as well as post-exercise insulin response) I agree with Nelson's first post.

Looking for "weight gainer" shakes silly (refer to my first post in this thread). You want to pack on mass, food and calories are where it's at. However, as post-exercise recovery/anabolism stimulatory drinks some of the so called "mass gainer" shakes are quite functionable.







smb_69, sorry I missed your question. I don't know if adding Glucorell-R would offer any real advantage. In a "normal" post-exercise athlete model, the straight carbohydrate and protein works regardless.
 
Silent Method said:
poantrex, don't worry about posting study abstracts. Each fact I listed in post 39 of this thread has multiple studies to back it up:

*Exercise elicits a catecholamine response.
*Catecholamines elicit a catabolic response.
*Intense bouts of exercise elicit a catabolic response.
*Carbohydrate elicits an insulin response.
*Insulin elicits an anabolic/anti-catabolic response.
*High GI carbohydrate elicits a greater insulin response more rapidly than low GI carbohydrate.
*High GI carbohydrate consumed post-exercise elicits a greater, more rapid anabolic/anti-catabolic effect than low GI carbohydrate.

These are literally text book exercise physiology concepts. Could they be wrong? Of course - text book are revised all the time. (It wasn't very long ago when high GI carbs were not recognized to have any significant advantage for recovery after anaerobic exercise - the anabolic response was completely ignored.)

Are they wrong? Not likely. But if they are I'd sure as hell like to know.

If anybody is capable of forming a rational argument to refute any of these points, I'm all ears.






jubei, aside from the fact that high GI carbohydrates are handled very differently by the body differently following exercise (look up exercise response and it's effects on glycogen synthase and hexokinase, as well as post-exercise insulin response) I agree with Nelson's first post.

Looking for "weight gainer" shakes silly (refer to my first post in this thread). You want to pack on mass, food and calories are where it's at. However, as post-exercise recovery/anabolism stimulatory drinks some of the so called "mass gainer" shakes are quite functionable.




Blah, blah, blah....

REFERENCES PLEASE.



Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist. (Poentrex did exactly what I knew he would do--post a study on glycogen replenishment. As I said -- he's a little slow).
 
"REFERENCES PLEASE.

Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist."


This is the kind of comment that leads me to believe that your "work" is based on paraphrasing the little you have read and agree with. You obviously have no background with research and exercise physiology.



Your squirming Nelson. Why will you not address the facts. Put forth some argument and face the issue head on..
 
Silent Method said:
"REFERENCES PLEASE.

Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist."


This is the kind of comment that leads me to believe that your "work" is based on paraphrasing the little you have read and agree with. You obviously have no background with research and exercise physiology.



Your squirming Nelson. Why will you not address the facts. Put forth some argument and face the issue head on..


Wow, your responses are getting lamer with each post. I'm squirming? Over what? I made my point and now I'm simply asking you for the same thing you ask me -- and you got nothing.

Trying to divert the attention on you by attacking me? That's the best you got? Pathetic.

I have no background in exercise phisiology? Well, I am a accredited PT with hundreds of pusblished works, 30 years of experience and the endorsement of some of the most presdigious people in the field.

Maybe you think that's bullshit so why don't you tell everyone YOUR credentials so we can all see what a real expert you are.

Let it go SM. Admit you're just an message board pain in the ass and move on.
 
Silent Method, the only post I read by Nelson was the first one. I had a stange feeling this would turn into a flame fest so I didn't bother reading any further. Guess what? I was right.
 
Nothing to add further but a comment: Nelson has all of the (lack of) qualities that makes one an unliked person: Very argumentative, cannot (and will not) even consider another side of an argument, cannot take criticism, and also constantly negative as well. These types of people generally do not make it far in life....at least with the company with which i'm a supervisor, they don't.
 
poantrex said:
Nothing to add further but a comment: Nelson has all of the (lack of) qualities that makes one an unliked person: Very argumentative, cannot (and will not) even consider another side of an argument, cannot take criticism, and also constantly negative as well. These types of people generally do not make it far in life....at least with the company with which i'm a supervisor, they don't.


And at what presdigious company are you the supervisor? K-Mart? 7-11?

Tell me; at this compnay, is it standard fare to blatantly and indiscriminately insult the senior members?

I love it when kids tell me I'll never do what I've already done.
 
my recomendation would be to take two scoops of Muscle milk two servings of oatmeal ( cooked or raw ) two Glasses of milk Take 5 to 10 IU insulin maybe add 10 grams glutamine and creatine trust me you"ll grow do this twice a day plus 4 more med carb med fat high protein meals
 
Drink

N Large as far a PW drink. Lean Mass Matrix by ProLab is the best MRP out there IMO. Add a few of those to lots of food sources of protein and that should help get you on your way.
 
(__)_)=========D said:
THIS NELSON MONTANA GUY SEEMS LIKE A PIECE OF SHIT THAT THINKS HE KNOWS EVERYTHING....AND HE THINKS HE'S RIGHT SINCE HE'S A "SENIOR MEMBER" LOL

YOUR A FUCKING JOKE...ANOTHER COCK SUCKER TRYING TO PROMOTE HIS PROTEIN FACTORY TO MAKE A BUCK

FROM THE POST YOU HAVE MADE IN THIS THREAD I REALLY THINK YOUR AN IDIOT...POANTREX AND SILENT METHOD MAKE GOOD POINTS WHILE YOU SIT THERE AND INSLUT THEM AND YET YOU DONT BACK UP ANY OF YOUR CLAIMS WITH THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT YOU LOVE TO ASK PEOPLE ABOUT IN THEIR CLAIMS.


NOBODY BUY IN TO NELSON MONTANA'S BULL SHIT...HE'S IN IT TO MAKE A BUCK...NO BETTER THAN A FUCKING SCAMMER


I can think of no greater compliment than to evoke the wrath of an loud mouth moron.

Now, when intelligent people criticize me and morons start liking me, then I know I have something to worry about.

I have nothing to worry about.
 
The_Eviscerator said:


I don't think sugar is magical after a work-out, but dextrose is the most effective way to replenish muscle tissue after a work-out. In addition the quick absorption when coupled with ion exchange whey will allow you to consume another post workout meal of whole food within an hour to an hour and a half after a workout. So.... while sugar isn't magic dust... it is the most effective for replenishment. Ice Cream, whole milk etc... are poor substitutes. I know... because I used this approach for years and it was inferior to say the least.

I am quoting myself because the reason dextrose works so well is because it allows you to consume more calories in a shorter period of time... SO... Nelson, you are correct sugar isn't magic and doesn't produce more muscle than other calories... but it does allow you to take in more calories in a shorter period of time.... which indirectly leads to more muscle.
 
Nelson Montana said:
I have no background in exercise phisiology? Well, I am a accredited PT with hundreds of pusblished works, 30 years of experience and the endorsement of some of the most presdigious people in the field.
It's disheartening, then, that you have little comand of this subject, poor reasoning skills, and choose to conduct yourself in such an abrasive manner without regard for the truth of the issue.

I am convinced you are conducting yourself in this way in the effort to have this thread locked. Let's take a deep breath, count to 20, and address the subject at hand.



First, just what is YOUR argument Nelson? I maintain exactly what I said in my first post as truth: A proper combination of high glycemic carbohydrate and high BV protein will yield a good post-exercise recovery/anabolism stimulatory drink.

Agree or disagree? Why? I've given you my reasoning, why do you refuse to give me yours?

Specifically, you do not recognize an advantage in the high glycemic carbohydrate component of my recomendation. (Regardless of the fact that in my recomendation both the carbohydrate and protein component of the recovery meal complement each other.)

You state: "And don't post some bullshit about carbs replenishing glycogen storage. We all knew that before you were alive."

This is a pretty big part of recovery there Nelson. In and of itself it's not hard to undersatnd the advantage that superior glycogen restoration will yield in regard to performance, and in turn, the advantage superior performance will yield in regard to adaptation - that's phys 101.

Going deeper into physiology we begin to understand that the effect of high GI carbs in a post-exercise model has a positive impact on the restoration of the subject's anabolic drive. Is this where you are having trouble following the argument? If so, look up post-exercise hormonal response in any physiology textbook.




You're begging for references. "REFERENCES PLEASE, Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist." In all seriousness, it's this kind of statment that demonstrates your ignorance.

Very well, I'll post some references - with this challenge to you. Instead of simply picking the one or two references you disagree with, debate me head on. In your opinion, why am I wrong and what are the errors in my argument?



Now then, the references. Where shall I start?

How about a name: Dr. Michael Colgan - the worlds foremost authority on sports nutrition.

A few books:
*Driskell, J. (2000). Nutritional applications in exercise and sport. <and the myriad of journal citations within the book>

*Groff, J. and Gropper, S. (2000). Advanced nutrition and human metabolism. <and the myriad of journal citations within the book>

*Burke, E. Optimal muscle recovery. <and the myriad of journal citations within the book>

*Wolinsky, I. (1997). Nutrition in exercise and sport. Third edition. <and the myriad of journal citations within the book>

*Ratzin-Jackson, C. (2000). Nutrition and the strength athlete. <and the myriad of journal citations within the book>

*Kleiner, S. (1998). Power eating: build muscle, gain energy, lose fat <and the myriad of journal citations within the book>

*Colgan, M. (1993) Optimum Sports Nutrition. <and his other, more recent books that I will not type out, as well as the myriad of journal citations within his books >

*Berning, J. and Steen, S. (1998). Nutrition for sport and exercise. <and the myriad of journal citations within the book>

*Maughan, R and Murray, R. (2000) Sports drinks: basic science and practical aspects. <and the myriad of journal citations within the book>

A few studies:
Effects of ingesting protein with various forms of carbohydrate following resistance exercise on substrate availability and markers of catabolism.
Lundberg <found this one on microfice, sorry, I'm not typing it out, but if you are serious about the subject, you'll want to look it up>



Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise.
Chandler RM, Byrne HK, Patterson JG, Ivy JL
J Appl Physiol 1994 Feb 76:839-45


J Appl Physiol • Volume 76 • Issue 2

Abstract
To examine the effect of carbohydrate and/or protein supplements on the hormonal state of the body after weight-training exercise, nine experienced male weight lifters were given water (Control) or an isocaloric carbohydrate (CHO; 1.5 g/kg body wt), protein (PRO; 1.38 g/kg body wt), or carbohydrate-protein (CHO/PRO; 1.06 g carbohydrate/kg body wt and 0.41 g protein/kg) supplement immediately and 2 h after a standardized weight-training workout. Venous blood samples were drawn before and immediately after exercise and during 8 h of recovery. Exercise induced elevations in lactate, glucose, testosterone, and growth hormone. CHO and CHO/PRO stimulated higher insulin concentrations than PRO and Control. CHO/PRO led to an increase in growth hormone 6 h postexercise that was greater than PRO and Control. Supplements had no effect on insulin-like growth factor I but caused a significant decline in testosterone. The decline in testosterone, however, was not associated with a decline in luteinizing hormone, suggesting an increased clearance of testosterone after supplementation. The results suggest that nutritive supplements after weight-training exercise can produce a hormonal environment during recovery that may be favorable to muscle growth by stimulating insulin and growth hormone elevations.




Carbohydrate ingestion/supplementation or resistance exercise and training.
Conley MS, Stone MH
Sports Med 1996 Jan 21:7-17

Sports Med • Volume 21 • Issue 1

Abstract
The physiological and performance effects of carbohydrate ingestion/supplementation on aerobic endurance exercise have been extensively studied. However, little attention has been given to the effects of carbohydrate ingestion on resistance exercise and training. Recent evidence suggests that resistance exercise can elicit a considerable glycogenolytic effect, which can lead to fatigue and strength loss. The ability of carbohydrate ingestion immediately before and during resistance exercise to enhance performance is unclear at present, however carbohydrate ingestion following resistance exercise has been shown to enhance muscle glycogen resynthesis. This may decrease recovery time following resistance exercise and enable an increase in training volume which may enhance physiological adaptations. Also, carbohydrate ingestion during or immediately after resistance exercise has been shown to increase postexercise insulin and growth hormone levels, which may lead to increased protein synthesis and hypertrophy, although this has not been systematically investigated.




Effect of glucose supplement timing on protein metabolism after resistance training
B. D. Roy1, M. A. Tarnopolsky1,2, J. D. Macdougall1, J. Fowles1, and K. E. Yarasheski3

1 Department of Kinesiology and 2 Department of Neurology and Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8S 4K1; and 3 Metabolism Division, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110


Received 16 September 1996; accepted in final form 10 February 1997.

Roy, B. D., M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall, J. Fowles, and K. E. Yarasheski. Effect of glucose supplement timing on protein metabolism after resistance training. J. Appl. Physiol. 82(6): 1882-1888, 1997.We determined the effect of the timing of glucose supplementation on fractional muscle protein synthetic rate (FSR), urinary urea excretion, and whole body and myofibrillar protein degradation after resistance exercise. Eight healthy men performed unilateral knee extensor exercise (8 sets/~10 repetitions/~85% of 1 single maximal repetition). They received a carbohydrate (CHO) supplement (1 g/kg) or placebo (Pl) immediately (t = 0 h) and 1 h (t = +1 h) postexercise. FSR was determined for exercised (Ex) and control (Con) limbs by incremental L-[1-13C]leucine enrichment into the vastus lateralis over ~10 h postexercise. Insulin was greater (P < 0.01) at 0.5, 0.75, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, and 2 h, and glucose was greater (P < 0.05) at 0.5 and 0.75 h for CHO compared with Pl condition. FSR was 36.1% greater in the CHO/Ex leg than in the CHO/Con leg (P = not significant) and 6.3% greater in the Pl/Ex leg than in the Pl/Con leg (P = not significant). 3-Methylhistidine excretion was lower in the CHO (110.43 ± 3.62 µmol/g creatinine) than Pl condition (120.14 ± 5.82, P < 0.05) as was urinary urea nitrogen (8.60 ± 0.66 vs. 12.28 ± 1.84 g/g creatinine, P < 0.05). This suggests that CHO supplementation (1 g/kg) immediately and 1 h after resistance exercise can decrease myofibrillar protein breakdown and urinary urea excretion, resulting in a more positive body protein balance.



Ingestion of Protein Hydrolysate and Amino Acid-Carbohydrate Mixtures Increases Postexercise Plasma Insulin Responses in Men
Luc J. C. van Loon*2, Margriet Kruijshoop*, Hans Verhagen, Wim H. M. Saris* and Anton J. M. Wagenmakers*

* Nutrition and Toxicology Research Institute NUTRIM, Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, 6200 MD Maastricht, the Netherlands and TNO Nutrition and Food Research Institute, Food and Non-Food Analysis Department, Zeist, the Netherlands

To optimize the postexercise insulin response and to increase plasma amino acid availability, we studied postexercise insulin levels after the ingestion of carbohydrate and wheat protein hydrolysate with and without free leucine and phenylalanine. After an overnight fast, eight male cyclists visited our laboratory on five occasions, during which a control drink and two different beverage compositions in two different doses were tested. After they performed a glycogen-depletion protocol, subjects received a beverage (3.5 mL · kg-1) every 30 min to ensure an intake of 1.2 g · kg-1 · h-1 carbohydrate and 0, 0.2 or 0.4 g · kg-1 · h-1 protein hydrolysate (and amino acid) mixture. After the insulin response was expressed as the area under the curve, only the ingestion of the beverages containing wheat protein hydrolysate, leucine and phenylalanine resulted in a marked increase in insulin response (+52 and + 107% for the 0.2 and 0.4 g · kg-1 · h-1 mixtures, respectively; P < 0.05) compared with the carbohydrate-only trial). A dose-related effect existed because doubling the dose (0.2–0.4 g · kg-1 · h-1) led to an additional rise in insulin response (P < 0.05). Plasma leucine, phenylalanine and tyrosine concentrations showed strong correlations with the insulin response (P < 0.0001). This study provides a practical tool to markedly elevate insulin levels and plasma amino acid availability through dietary manipulation, which may be of great value in clinical nutrition, (recovery) sports drinks and metabolic research. <BTW, my favorite post-exercise carb - maltodextrin - was used in this study.>



Muscle glycogen storage after prolonged exercise: effect of the glycemic index of carbohydrate feedings.
Burke LM, Collier GR, Hargreaves M
J Appl Physiol 1993 Aug 75:1019-23

J Appl Physiol • Volume 75 • Issue 2

Abstract
The effect of the glycemic index (GI) of postexercise carbohydrate intake on muscle glycogen storage was investigated. Five well-trained cyclists undertook an exercise trial to deplete muscle glycogen (2 h at 75% of maximal O2 uptake followed by four 30-s sprints) on two occasions, 1 wk apart. For 24 h after each trial, subjects rested and consumed a diet composed exclusively of high-carbohydrate foods, with one trial providing foods with a high GI (HI GI) and the other providing foods with a low GI (LO GI). Total carbohydrate intake over the 24 h was 10 g/kg of body mass, evenly distributed between meals eaten 0, 4, 8, and 21 h postexercise. Blood samples were drawn before exercise, immediately after exercise, immediately before each meal, and 30, 60, and 90 min post-prandially. Muscle biopsies were taken from the vastus lateralis immediately after exercise and after 24 h. When the effects of the immediate postexercise meal were excluded, the totals of the incremental glucose and insulin areas after each meal were greater (P < or = 0.05) for the HI GI meals than for the LO GI meals. The increase in muscle glycogen content after 24 h of recovery was greater (P = 0.02) with the HI GI diet (106 +/- 11.7 mmol/kg wet wt) than with the LO GI diet (71.5 +/- 6.5 mmol/kg). The results suggest that the most rapid increase in muscle glycogen content during the first 24 h of recovery is achieved by consuming foods with a high GI.




An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise
Blake B. Rasmussen, Kevin D. Tipton, Sharon L. Miller, Steven E. Wolf, and Robert R. Wolfe
Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch and Metabolism Unit, Shriners Burns Institute, Galveston, Texas 77550

This study was designed to determine the response of muscle protein to the bolus ingestion of a drink containing essential amino acids and carbohydrate after resistance exercise. Six subjects (3 men, 3 women) randomly consumed a treatment drink (6 g essential amino acids, 35 g sucrose) or a flavored placebo drink 1 h or 3 h after a bout of resistance exercise on two separate occasions. We used a three-compartment model for determination of leg muscle protein kinetics. The model involves the infusion of ring-2H5-phenylalanine, femoral arterial and venous blood sampling, and muscle biopsies. Phenylalanine net balance and muscle protein synthesis were significantly increased above the predrink and corresponding placebo value (P < 0.05) when the drink was taken 1 or 3 h after exercise but not when the placebo was ingested at 1 or 3 h. The response to the amino acid-carbohydrate drink produced similar anabolic responses at 1 and 3 h. Muscle protein breakdown did not change in response to the drink. We conclude that essential amino acids with carbohydrates stimulate muscle protein anabolism by increasing muscle protein synthesis when ingested 1 or 3 h after resistance exercise.



Insulin action on muscle protein kinetics and amino acid transport during recovery after resistance exercise.
Biolo G, Williams BD, Fleming RY, Wolfe RR
Diabetes 1999 May 48:949-57

Diabetes • Volume 48 • Issue 5

Abstract
We have determined the individual and combined effects of insulin and prior exercise on leg muscle protein synthesis and degradation, amino acid transport, glucose uptake, and alanine metabolism. Normal volunteers were studied in the postabsorptive state at rest and about 3 h after a heavy leg resistance exercise routine. The leg arteriovenous balance technique was used in combination with stable isotopic tracers of amino acids and biopsies of the vastus lateralis muscle. Insulin was infused into a femoral artery to increase the leg insulin concentrations to high physiologic levels without substantively affecting the whole-body level. Protein synthesis and degradation were determined as rates of intramuscular phenylalanine utilization and appearance, and muscle fractional synthetic rate (FSR) was also determined. Leg blood flow was greater after exercise than at rest (P<0.05). Insulin accelerated blood flow at rest but not after exercise (P<0.05). The rates of protein synthesis and degradation were greater during the postexercise recovery (65+/-10 and 74+/-10 nmol x min(-1) x 100 ml(-1) leg volume, respectively) than at rest (30+/-7 and 46+/-8 nmol x min(-1) x 100 ml(-1) leg volume, respectively; P<0.05). Insulin infusion increased protein synthesis at rest (51+/-4 nmol x min(-1) x 100 ml(-1) leg volume) but not during the postexercise recovery (64+/-9 nmol x min(-1) x 100 ml(-1) leg volume; P<0.05). Insulin infusion at rest did not change the rate of protein degradation (48+/-3 nmol x min(-1) 100 ml(-1) leg volume). In contrast, insulin infusion after exercise significantly decreased the rate of protein degradation (52+/-9 nmol x min(-1) x 100 ml(-1) leg volume). The insulin stimulatory effects on inward alanine transport and glucose uptake were three times greater during the postexercise recovery than at rest (P<0.05). In contrast, the insulin effects on phenylalanine, leucine, and lysine transport were similar at rest and after exercise. In conclusion, the ability of insulin to stimulate glucose uptake and alanine transport and to suppress protein degradation in skeletal muscle is increased after resistance exercise. Decreased amino acid availability may limit the stimulatory effect of insulin on muscle protein synthesis after exercise.


Exercise Effects on Muscle Insulin Signaling and Action
Invited Review: Role of insulin in translational control of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle by amino acids or exercise
Scot R. Kimball1, Peter A. Farrell2, and Leonard S. Jefferson1
1 Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology, The Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, Hershey 17033; and 2 Noll Physiology Research Center, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802

Protein synthesis in skeletal muscle is modulated in response to a variety of stimuli. Two stimuli receiving a great deal of recent attention are increased amino acid availability and exercise. Both of these effectors stimulate protein synthesis in part through activation of translation initiation. However, the full response of translation initiation and protein synthesis to either effector is not observed in the absence of a minimal concentration of insulin. The combination of insulin and either increased amino acid availability or endurance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis in part through activation of the ribosomal protein S6 protein kinase S6K1 as well as through enhanced association of eukaryotic initiation factor eIF4G with eIF4E, an event that promotes binding of mRNA to the ribosome. In contrast, insulin in combination with resistance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis through enhanced activity of a guanine nucleotide exchange protein referred to as eIF2B. In both cases, the amount of insulin required for the effects is low, and a concentration of the hormone that approximates that observed in fasting animals is sufficient for maximal stimulation. This review summarizes the results of a number of recent studies that have helped to establish our present understanding of the interactions of insulin, amino acids, and exercise in the regulation of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.


Dietary supplements and the promotion of muscle growth with resistance exercise.
Kreider RB
Sports Med 1999 Feb 27:97-110

Sports Med • Volume 27 • Issue 2

Abstract
Nutritional strategies of overfeeding, ingesting carbohydrate/protein before and after exercise, and dietary supplementation of various nutrients [e.g. protein, glutamine, branched-chain amino acid, creatine, leucine, beta-hydroxy beta-methyl-butyrate (beta-HMB), chromium, vanadyl sulfate, boron, prasterone (dehydroepiandrosterone [DHEA]) and androstenedione] have been purported to promote gains in fat-free mass during resistance training. Most studies indicate that chromium, vanadyl sulfate and boron supplementation do not affect muscle growth. However, there is evidence that ingesting carbohydrate/protein prior to exercise may reduce catabolism during exercise and that ingesting carbohydrate/protein following resistance-exercise may promote a more anabolic hormonal profile. Furthermore, glutamine, creatine, leucine, and calcium beta-HMB may affect protein synthesis. Creatine and calcium beta-HMB supplementation during resistance training have been reported to increase fat-free mass in athletic and nonathletic populations. Prasterone supplementation has been reported to increase testosterone and fat-free mass in nontrained populations. However, results are equivocal, studies have yet to be conducted on athletes, and prasterone is considered a banned substance by some athletic organisations. This paper discusses rationale and effectiveness of these nutritional strategies in promoting lean tissue accretion during resistance training.


Muscle glycogen synthesis before and after exercise.
Ivy JL
Sports Med 1991 Jan 11:6-19

Sports Med • Volume 11 • Issue 1


Abstract
The importance of carbohydrates as a fuel source during endurance exercise has been known for 60 years. With the advent of the muscle biopsy needle in the 1960s, it was determined that the major source of carbohydrate during exercise was the muscle glycogen stores. It was demonstrated that the capacity to exercise at intensities between 65 to 75% VO2max was related to the pre-exercise level of muscle glycogen, i.e. the greater the muscle glycogen stores, the longer the exercise time to exhaustion. Because of the paramount importance of muscle glycogen during prolonged, intense exercise, a considerable amount of research has been conducted in an attempt to design the best regimen to elevate the muscle's glycogen stores prior to competition and to determine the most effective means of rapidly replenishing the muscle glycogen stores after exercise. The rate-limiting step in glycogen synthesis is the transfer of glucose from uridine diphosphate-glucose to an amylose chain. This reaction is catalysed by the enzyme glycogen synthase which can exist in a glucose-6-phosphate-dependent, inactive form (D-form) and a glucose-6-phosphate-independent, active form (I-form). The conversion of glycogen synthase from one form to the other is controlled by phosphorylation-dephosphorylation reactions. The muscle glycogen concentration can vary greatly depending on training status, exercise routines and diet. The pattern of muscle glycogen resynthesis following exercise-induced depletion is biphasic. Following the cessation of exercise and with adequate carbohydrate consumption, muscle glycogen is rapidly resynthesised to near pre-exercise levels within 24 hours. Muscle glycogen then increases very gradually to above-normal levels over the next few days. Contributing to the rapid phase of glycogen resynthesis is an increase in the percentage of glycogen synthase I, an increase in the muscle cell membrane permeability to glucose, and an increase in the muscle's sensitivity to insulin. The slow phase of glycogen synthesis appears to be under the control of an intermediate form of glycogen synthase that is highly sensitive to glucose-6-phosphate activation. Conversion of the enzyme to this intermediate form may be due to the muscle tissue being constantly exposed to an elevated plasma insulin concentration subsequent to several days of high carbohydrate consumption. For optimal training performance, muscle glycogen stores must be replenished on a daily basis. For the average endurance athlete, a daily carbohydrate consumption of 500 to 600g is required. This results in a maximum glycogen storage of 80 to 100 mumol/g wet weight.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)




TESTOSTERONE - PHYSIOLOGY AND FACTORS AFFECTING SERUM CONCENTRATION
David Woodhouse: MSc Sports Science
>
<No abstract available, selected portion cut from full text>
>
5. Insulin

Insulin is a hormone secreted from the beta cells of the Islets of Langerhans in the pancreas. Its secretion is influenced by a number of factors but most significantly by high plasma glucose concentration. It promotes cellular uptake of glucose and amino acids and inhibits protein degradation (11). Elevation in blood insulin above 'baseline' levels causes a decrease in serum T. There is however, no correlation between insulin elevation and the degree of T decrease. The decreased serum T is believed to occur due to an increase in utilisation at muscle cells rather than a decrease in secretion. Supporting evidence to this theory includes LH concentration, which remain unaffected by elevated insulin (1). The popular idea of consuming large amounts of protein and carbohydrate post exercise to take advantage of elevated serum T therefore appears to be correct.
 
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Nelson Montana is a FRAUD

I was thinking about trying out Nelsons recomendations...but after this thread it seems that he really doesnt have much evidence to back up his promising claims, and is just in it for the profit, very sad
 
Re: Nelson Montana is a FRAUD

BigSexyAl said:
I was thinking about trying out Nelsons recomendations...but after this thread it seems that he really doesnt have much evidence to back up his promising claims, and is just in it for the profit, very sad
This is a big part of what bothers me - how is the the average, untrained individual going to distingush between the solids facts versus the ignorant falshoods he presents?
 
What a bunch of idiots.

It's obvious this is no longer a discussion to learn. Hell, I don't think anyone even knows what the discussion is any more--it's gotten so derailed. Now it's the typical adolescent "owning" contest. The winner is decided by who cuts and pastes the most studies-- EVEN IF THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC!

The original question was, show proof of how a higher GI post workout grows more muscle than an ordinary carb a hour after a workout. That's my point. But obviously some of you aren't understanding that. And honestly, I'm not in the mood to spoon feed it to you because you really aren't interested. To tell you the truth, this whole thing is pretty uninteresting. You win. Congratulations.
 
What a dodge...

Nelson Montana said:
What a bunch of idiots.

It's obvious this is no longer a discussion to learn. Hell, I don't think anyone even knows what the discussion is any more--it's gotten so derailed. Now it's the typical adolescent "owning" contest. The winner is decided by who cuts and pastes the most studies-- EVEN IF THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC!

The original question was, show proof of how a higher GI post workout grows more muscle than an ordinary carb a hour after a workout. That's my point. But obviously some of you aren't understanding that. And honestly, I'm not in the mood to spoon feed it to you because you really aren't interested. To tell you the truth, this whole thing is pretty uninteresting. You win. Congratulations.
You either didn't read my post, lack the ability to understand what was posted there, or are making the choice to ignore the truth to save face.

I could care less about how I look in this debate. I am not here to sell my name. I am here to discuss optimal athletic practice. If you are uninterested, get the fuck off the board and leave the writting of books and articles to those who do care.
 
Nelson I dont know you or Silent Method but it does seem like you want to force your opinions on to people...and when they prove you wrong you say that this is nonsense its a contest to see who got owned...its not. If YOU make a claim, and YOU have financial interest in that claim...the least YOU could do is back it up buddy...

Jubei is right....you did get OWNED, and to not look like a bitch you come back and say this discussion got derailed, you win, well you dont save face like that...you look even more foolish.

Silent Method....Im with you on this one, good post bro
 
BigSexyAl said:
Nelson I dont know you or Silent Method but it does seem like you want to force your opinions on to people...and when they prove you wrong you say that this is nonsense its a contest to see who got owned...its not. If YOU make a claim, and YOU have financial interest in that claim...the least YOU could do is back it up buddy...

Jubei is right....you did get OWNED, and to not look like a bitch you come back and say this discussion got derailed, you win, well you dont save face like that...you look even more foolish.

Silent Method....Im with you on this one, good post bro

Yeah, Nelson incessantly asked for references and when they were provided, he totally ignored them. Pretty funny actually - I just hope some newbies see this and decide to NOT buy any of his assinine books
 
Big Sexy Al: (great name) You got me. I get rich by telling people that they don't need dextrose.:rolleyes:

And now SM is taliking about "optimum athletic performace" WTF? What happened to the anabolism of a Post workout drink? I guess it's very convenent to keep changing the subject as you go along.

I know how this works. People love to see the little guy prevail. Take down the "guru." (Not that I claim to be one, but you know what I mean) Hooray for Silent Method! He posted a study!!! Yea!!! You da man!


But once you're all through patting each other on the back, maybe you'll go back and read my last post and realize how stupid you sound.

I'm sure everyone else has grown tired of this by now. Let it go already.
 
Nelson Montana said:
And now SM is taliking about "optimum athletic performace" WTF? What happened to the anabolism of a Post workout drink? I guess it's very convenent to keep changing the subject as you go along.
You misread. I said optimal athletic practice, such as the use of high glycemic carbohydrate in a post-exercise recovery drink.

Try and keep up.
 
What makes you think your the guru?
 
Silent Method said:
You're begging for references. "REFERENCES PLEASE, Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist." In all seriousness, it's this kind of statment that demonstrates your ignorance.

Very well, I'll post some references - with this challenge to you. Instead of simply picking the one or two references you disagree with, debate me head on. In your opinion, why am I wrong and what are the errors in my argument?
 
Silent Method said:

You misread. I said optimal athletic practice, such as the use of high glycemic carbohydrate in a post-exercise recovery drink.

Try and keep up.

SM, you know this is pointless...lol. Any successful bodybuilding trainee knows that high GI coupled with protein after a grueling work-out is optimal. Jay Cutler takes in a can of coke and 3 scoops of whey immediately after a training session and he seems to be quite successful.
 
Omega, got a question about g-plenish for you. How much is optimal per day and how much is in a container. Thanks.
 
jubei said:
Omega, got a question about g-plenish for you. How much is optimal per day and how much is in a container. Thanks.

I would say 2-3 servings a day

so that = 30-45 grams of the stuff
and because at the last minute we upped the amount yoru going to get anywhere from 75 to 85 servings

your welcome,
please ask questions anytime:)
 
Okay, FOR THE LAST TIME.


I say that there isn't much difference between one sugar and another and that the ingestion of dextrose or any other high GI sugar within an hour or 15 minutes after a workout doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the long run in regard to how much muscle you grow.

READ THAT AGAIN so you understand it.

It DOES NOT SAY that ingesting carbs won't replenih glycogen levels.

I can't make this any simpler. If you don't get it, you don't get it. You keep arguing different points. And that moron jubal (who has yet to spell the word "you're" correctly) keeps agreeing with you, which shows either he either isn't paying attention or he has a mental handicap.

The whole point of asking for references was a joke that obviously flew over your head and the collective heads of your supporters. It was in retaliation of you asking for references for everything I say. SO I SAID, "SHOW A REFERENCE THAT PROVES SOMEONE WILL GROW MORE MUSCLE BY INGESTING A HIGH GI CARB THAN SOMEONE WHO JUST EATS WHEN HE'S DAMN GOOD AND READY".

AND YOU DIDN'T. YOU COULDN'T. THEY DON'T EXIST.

So what do you do? You post a study on how carbs increase glycogen after a workout. And three cretins think you put me in my place.

And that leads us to this point. Now, what'll we do? Tell me what to do that will end this thread and I'll do it.

Look, believe whatever you want. You want to think you're going to gain an extra ounce of muscle in one year by drinking dextrose after a workout, knock yourself out.
 
I didn't read this thread, but i'll give you the best drink.

Mix the following together, it's the best tasting and the best for overall mass:

allthewhey unflavored or chocolate, I usually put 4scoops post workout
1 cup of oats
2servings peanut butter
milk, enough to fill the blender

Best tasting shake ever, got the idea from ph77.

Some other variations are adding a banana and herseys syrup if you don't mind the sugars.

It's many calories (around 2k if you use it all), berely any sugars, and tastes delicious. I also pop some ginger root before it so I can digest all the protein.

-sk
 
I have a mental handicap? Oh it must be because I don't agree with you. You have the highest percentage of spelling mistakes per post I have ever seen. YOU ARE the biggest fraud to ever frequent a fitness board.

You say you have years of experience and blah blah blah. Guess what? A 22 year old who has been training for 2.5 years has a better body than you. What do you weigh 185? Better do some more primo you little pussy.

Wow you call yourself the "GURU". Give me a fucking break dipshit. BigAndy69, Fonz, Huck, Macro, Ulter are all 10 times more intelligent and helpful than you. Take the kindegarden bullshit and fuck off.
 
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Omega I'm guessing you guys decided to up the amount per container from 75-85 servings in the middle of production? Thanks for the quick response BTW.
 
Hey NELSON MONTANA....Im glad you like my name, and im also glad this thread was started too because you lost ALL credebility in my opinion...

You Say " And that leads us to this point. Now, what'll we do? Tell me what to do that will end this thread and I'll do it. "

Well its simple....Just shut the fuck up...Stop proclaiming your self as the GURU...Your more like a childish moron that tries to con people in to buying your books and recomended supplements through PF, when you cant provide any SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE as you like to say...

When you were asked to prove your claims Mr. GURU you just came back with nonsense and attacked everyone that doubts you... Some GURU.

I give it to you though....its a good way to make money off of people that juice. People will spend a good deal of money not to lose the gains they paid so much for and worked so hard for to begin with...That can make you rich, your a good business man...I give you that...

Someone should post a link to this thread on ALL THE OTHER FORUMS so others can see what a fraud this guy really is...
 
jubei said:
Omega I'm guessing you guys decided to up the amount per container from 75-85 servings in the middle of production? Thanks for the quick response BTW.

Jubei:
your welcome

we decided at the last minute to up it past 1000 grams to over 1200 just to set ourselves apart
 
Best thread ever....haha

Nelson, take a hiatus to another board...... b/c I have not seen such an amazing ownage of a guy in about a year and a half. :)

Fonz
 
Fonz said:
Best thread ever....haha

Nelson, take a hiatus to another board...... b/c I have not seen such an amazing ownage of a guy in about a year and a half. :)

Fonz

I think the last one was chillin400 and Strenghtmonster, anybody remember that on the anabolic board?

Or how about the scammer Rugby who turned out to be a 17 year old chearleader that Stew Meat exposed.
 
This is hilareous! Half the members are completely ignoring this nonsense and discussing the original question the few morons are still trying to discredit me by making up lies. It's quite interesting.


Well, as they say: "To be disliked by a fool is a compliment.

I must be doing something right.
 
Nelson Montana said:
This is hilareous! Half the members are completely ignoring this nonsense and discussing the original question the few morons are still trying to discredit me by making up lies. It's quite interesting.


Well, as they say: "To be disliked by a fool is a compliment.

I must be doing something right.

Nice try.

However, you stilll got steamrolled. Then you got scooped up with a spoon, and finally burnt to a crisp over a spit. :)

You never, EVER prove anything. You sprout opinions like they are facts. And you continually insult people who disagree with your opinions.

HELLO, Earth to Nelson Montana: .....this is a discussion board, not a Nelson Montana monologue.

I'm a hair away from taking a day off to reduce your arguments to ashes. This due to your frankly sheer incompetence, and the fact you promoting false and deceiving information regarding supplements that you are associated with.

Fonz
 
Ya know, I wouldn't even mind nelson's "opinions" if he weren't such an arrogant jerk that forces his opinion down everyones throat. Just me though.
 
QUOTE FROM NELSON

"Learn how to detect their lies and money wasting scams and learn the bottom line toward more ripped muscle -- right away!"

Well thank you Nelson...you have helped us DETECT your lies... and your MONEY WASTING SCAM to get us to buy your worthless supplements & bull shit book...I'll put that money towards some juice and get MORE RIPPED MUSCLE - RIGHT AWAY!!!

This thread should become a sticky...and links to it should be distributed on other boards to expose this scum...Your lower than a scammer.
 
You know what's interesting?

NO ONE addressed my post whre I explained the issue. Why?

Because they don't care.

They have one objective. To hate. No one is really disputing what I said, yet these same people make personal attacks. That doesn't faze me because I know where it's coming from. It comes from ignorance and fear. They don't know any better, so they think it's best to tear down what they don't understand. It's easier to join a mob than to open your mind. A small man can feel big by putting down someone of stature. If it takes lies, so be it. It's sad, really.

In the case with Fonz, he hates because he used to be the head honcho here until I discreded him -- proved where his "original" ideas were just stolen. Showed how his theories were wrong. And exposed him as the egomaniacal kid that really is. So when he sees that the tide has turned against me, he jumps in and lashes out, thinking it will gain momemtum and aybe he can elevate his status once more. It's too late Fonz.

Tell you what. Let it all out. Think of every insult you can. None of it has merit, because it's based on nothing. It's just trash talk. Or should I say, it's trash talking. You aren't worth my time. So use this post to spew all the garbage you want. I'll be elsewhere trying to conduct an intellegent conversaton. But I'm sure Fonz will wait until someone starts in, then he'll get his digs in -- maybe even accuse me of being the one who starts flame fests. It's so pathetic.

I guess I allow myself to get caught up in this stuff because I have the silly notion that people will listen to reason. But I know that isn't everyones objective. I never uderstood this hateful mentality. I think that's a good thing.

It's all yours. Take it away. Have fun.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Apparently my knowledge of exercise phisiology is good enough for Powerlfting Champ Dennis Weiss, and for Mr. Universe Dave Draper and Exercise authority Lou Shuler. Hey, I admit, there no Silent Method, but they aint bad. Oh yeah, there are also the thousands of people who've benefited from my programs. Guess they don't count either.

This is what they had to say about you off your website:

""The Bodybuilding Truth is amusing, wide in scope, and on the money. Nelson Montana is readier, more willing and quite able to stand up and speak up about the trash."

-Dave Draper, Mr. America, Mr. Universe

Where does he say "I agree with everything Nelson says" ? He's talking about you exposing the
supplement industry frauds.

"Nelson Montana is a wild stallion in an industry filled with trained ponies."

-Lou Schuler, Fitness Editor Men's Health

Men's health? Not exactly hardcore bodybuilding. What does this quote mean anyway?

testominals:

http://www.nelsonmontana.com/testimonials.html

The only person that had anything extremely good to say about your knowledge is Denis Weiss, who I've never heard of.

"(Nelson Montana) is certainly no slouch in regards to his knowledge."

Not exactly a full endorsement of every one of your ideas.

You seem to back up your statement mostly by the fact that you have been in BBing a LONG time. 30 years as you put it.

http://www.nelsonmontana.com/gallery.html

Take a look at the second picture. After decades of training you looked like you had never lifted a weight. If that isn't a testament of how stubborn you are, I don't know what is.

http://www.nelsonmontana.com/about-nelson-montana.html

On this page, we find out more about you.

Maybe I'm wrong but you have done a total of 2 cycles,

2 weeks of primo tabs

2 weeks of 10mg of dbol, and 100mg of Deca

And people listen to your advice on drugs?

Nice one.
 
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