anyone try HMG?

[georgie24]

nelson what dosages should we run cyclofenil and for how long?

 

[Nelson Montana]

nelson what dosages should we run cyclofenil and for how long?

I did 100 mgs a day for a week and it worked quite welll, though I've never gone that high with the amount of gear.

I think there are better options today. If I were to do a cycle I'd prefer a combination of low dose A-dex (1/4 tab EOD) and natural supps. It's more effective, healthier and pretty much side effect free.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Nelson,

Why do you say no vitex?

-Pp

 

[ShortFuse]

Nelson, maybe I am misunderstanding your initial post in this thread, but you said that supplementation of HMG could ultimately decrease your testosterone levels and cited an article, but I don't see how they correlate...

The article you cited stated that the use of statins can reduce testosterone levels/libido, which are HMG-CoA Reductase Inhibitors...they inhibit the enzyme that catalyzes the conversion of HMG-CoA to mevalonate. The article itself gave three reasons why the test could be reduced due to taking this medications:

Statins may interfere with the synthesis of testosterone in three ways.

First, by decreasing plasma LDL-cholesterol, HMGCoA-reductase inhibitors lower the total amount of cholesterol offered to the Leydig cell. Taking into account the amount of cholesterol in the blood, it is unlikely that this decrease will have a significant effect.

Statins are rather liver selective, but are found in small quantities in the testes, where they can inhibit the de novo synthesis of cholesterol out of acetate by HMGCoA-reductase [6].

Finally, high-dose simvastatin, and possibly other statins, directly suppress testosterone synthesis by inhibiting the 17-ketosteroid-oxidoreductase catalysed conversion from dehydroepiandrosterone and dehydroandrostenedione to androstenediol and testosterone, respectively [7].

Those three reasons do not include an increase of HMG, or HMG-CoA, but the result of taking the reductase inhibitor...

 

[Primordial Performance]

Nelson, maybe I am misunderstanding your initial post in this thread, but you said that supplementation of HMG could ultimately decrease your testosterone levels and cited an article, but I don't see how they correlate...

The article you cited stated that the use of statins can reduce testosterone levels/libido, which are HMG-CoA Reductase Inhibitors...they inhibit the enzyme that catalyzes the conversion of HMG-CoA to mevalonate. The article itself gave three reasons why the test could be reduced due to taking this medications:



Those three reasons do not include an increase of HMG, or HMG-CoA, but the result of taking the reductase inhibitor...

Ha, I didnt catch that earlier, but it seems we are talking about two different HMG's here...

HMG as FSH is awesome for PCT... HMG CoA-reductase inhibitors are a whole other drug.

-Pp

 

[galaxy]

I did 100 mgs a day for a week and it worked quite welll, though I've never gone that high with the amount of gear.

I think there are better options today. If I were to do a cycle I'd prefer a combination of low dose A-dex (1/4 tab EOD) and natural supps. It's more effective, healthier and pretty much side effect free.

Id have to agree with taking a low dose of arimidex. Its a good start.

Often overlooked is combining different gear to lessen estrogen effects. Like test with deca and dbol. The deca will help prevent some of the stronger estro sides from the androgens. Arthur L. Rea talks about it more scientifically.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Shortfuse. Good call. And I'll stand corrected on the application. Much like HCG, HMG can have the negitive side effects which include increased estrogen and desensitizing of the ledig cells. There's also a rebound effect which can cause further suppression of T due to dependence . The purpose of HCG is more to get testicular volume back so the HPTA can be better prepare to begin recovery. For HRT purposes, HCG works as a "break" from the HRT as well as having an obvious cosmetic benefit. While reading up on HMG I noticed that it also had the same "Clomid" side effect of blurred vision which I hadn't known and found interesting. The abstact then went into the HMGcoA version which is a reductase inhibitor (which is the same principle as Saw Palmetto) which of course will lower lidido. (by lowering DHT, which isn't mentioned in the article). I included that bit of information, prematurely I now realize, because it's a seperate version of the drug. So although some of the pitfalls may remain, that particular contrindication would be erroneous. Just goes to show you. Sometimes, mixing info gets convoluted and I'm not above the occasional mess up. There are still concerns with HMG but obviously that study isn't applicable. I'd be willing to give it more cautious consideration. My apologies. Thanks for catching that one.

Primordial. Vitex is also known as "Chaste Berry." It was used by monks to lower libido. (Hence the word "chaste") It's classified as an "anti androgen. (As is the aforementioned saw palmetto, meanwhile it's known as a "male" herb. Pretty ironic, ain't it?) I believe it was Biotest who first promted it because it does lower estrogen. But it also raises progesterone -- most probably the culprit for the supressed libido. Can you think of anything worse for a bodybuilder?

Though I'm now skittish about pasting studies without going through them with a fine tooth comb : ) here's some info on vitex.




http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_chaste_tree.htm

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...libido&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=safari

 

[digimon7068]

Again, it depends on what you're using and how suseptable you are to gyno, or high blood pressure.

DMI; Yeah, that shouldn't cause a whole lot of bloat. Then again, it could be the EQ that's raising your BP.

omna 500 ew 1-8
deca 300 ew 1-8
dbol 20 ed 1-3
prop 100 ed 9-10

 

[Nelson Montana]

omna 500 ew 1-8
deca 300 ew 1-8
dbol 20 ed 1-3
prop 100 ed 9-10

Well ya got yourself a pretty bloaty cycle going there. The deca bloat is from prog so an anti-e won't help there. A lot of the D-bol bloat comes from increased blood volume. Tell me again what you're using now?

 

[digimon7068]

Well ya got yourself a pretty bloaty cycle going there. The deca bloat is from prog so an anti-e won't help there. A lot of the D-bol bloat comes from increased blood volume. Tell me again what you're using now?

i haven't started this yet. . .soon, though. . .but, honestly, i've never had much trouble keeping things in check (bloat-wise) with a clean diet and ample cardio. . .i've used nolva throughout a cycle like this too, and i'm just wondering if maybe it has the potential to inhibit my gains. . .i have letro, nolva and arimidex around. . .