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bignate73
New member
ok, this got blown way out of proportion.....
to summarize the point of edgecrusher's "20 min" of cardio, here is a way to understand the purpose or "science" behind it....
Excess Post - exercise Oxygen Consumption. How much
oxygen you consume during the other 23 hours of the day. Why is that important?
Well, the amount of oxygen consumed is a very accurate way to determine how many calories your are burning. Lower intensity exercise does not create this effect. On the other hand both High intensity cardiovascular and weight training do. When intensities reach levels of approx 85%VO2 Max, the EPOC can last for up to 2-3 days. Your metabolism will literally be a Colorado forest fire You can work out for shorter durations (15min) and get better results. How do you know when you've reached the right level of intensity? Well to make it simple, if you can talk to someone
while your are doing it, then you aren't even close! It is uncomfortable, yes. Start slow and work your way up to it. There is no point to just spinning your wheels any longer. And no, doing 3 sets of 12-15 will not enhance fat burning or create a more defined body. This type of weight training actually conditions muscular enzymes to become more efficient at handling lactic acid.Lactic acid is basically a glucose molecule split in two, and being an acid, it burns. It is not, however, an indication that you are burning more fat.
so as i tried to explain to Nonerz, the rest of your 40 minute spin class is dedicated to lactic acid creation, uptake, warmup, cooldown and stretching. i wouldnt say that the whole 40 minutes is wasted, per se, but can be done effectively in 20.
similar to volume training with weights, cardio "volume" training is becoming a thing of the past. people are realizing the importance of working with challenging (both mental and physical) exercises to yield maximum results. the example given about the flyswatter illustrates what happens when doing those sprints, yes there is resistance, but not enough. it causes the heart to pound but the legs are only recruiting the necessary motor units to do the job, not near EVERY motor unit to do the job. see the difference? you feel worn out during this time because of the speed, light resistance and CNS fatigue.
im not sitting on either side of the fence because i understand how cardio needs to be comfortable to do first before it can be a habit and spinning is a way to make the pill easier to swallow. the problem lies in the motivation of the average gym member to swallow...."a larger more uncomfortable pill".
lets go back to the principles of changing a cardio exercise, using the FITT idea:
Frequency: how many times a week you do the exercise
Intensity: how hard you go.
Time: how long you do it.
Type: the type of exercise/movements done.
frequency is the easiest the change, but may not be the most reasonable due to time constraints, recovery times and the above mentioned EPOC.
intensity: here is where it is important, especially when we are talking about EPOC.
time: this should be related to intensity, and should be held at a roughly set time, so you can ensure you have a goal in sight, and a means to push yourself.
type: this is an important aspect because as you continue to do a mode of cardio over and over, you become efficient at it. your body learns to do certain tasks using the least amount of motion, motor units, muscle, whathaveyou, as possible. basically, if you start a job on an assembly line, you are worn out your first day because you dont have your motion down pat, and spend alot of energy moving unnecessarily. or think of it this way. you start out being able to jump up onto a 30 in box and are barely making it, but the next week you can jump up onto a 32 in box with the same amount of effort, but stay with the 30 inch box and just jump up to it. following week, 34 in is possible, but stay with the 30 in box. basically you are putting out less effort, muscularly, and completing the same task. "its getting easier for me".
i understand that in spin class, they give you numbers of perceived exertion, and thats good. it offers a formatted exercise class, with a pseudo interval workout in the middle. im not bashing spin, nor am i siding with edgecrusher wholeheartedly, just trying to give some insight into the principles of cardio, so everyone can understand there has to be a method to the madness. as for what Poliquin said about fat deposition, it could be, maybe not. i havent cut too many legs open to see. but 40 minutes with 20 minutes of productivity (spin) or just 20-25 minutes to stimulate EPOC (HIIT style) and getting the hell out of the gym seems like a choice everyone has to make. i wont attack anyone's choice of exercise, because everyone has a different goal, set of circumstances, etc. there are no absolutes for what works with people due to mental and physical issues.
i say do what you feel comfortable with, sometimes its a longer road to get there, but its your road to your goals. just make sure you understand why you are taking that route, educate yourself on other routes, and travel the one you like the view with.
peace.
to summarize the point of edgecrusher's "20 min" of cardio, here is a way to understand the purpose or "science" behind it....
Excess Post - exercise Oxygen Consumption. How much
oxygen you consume during the other 23 hours of the day. Why is that important?
Well, the amount of oxygen consumed is a very accurate way to determine how many calories your are burning. Lower intensity exercise does not create this effect. On the other hand both High intensity cardiovascular and weight training do. When intensities reach levels of approx 85%VO2 Max, the EPOC can last for up to 2-3 days. Your metabolism will literally be a Colorado forest fire You can work out for shorter durations (15min) and get better results. How do you know when you've reached the right level of intensity? Well to make it simple, if you can talk to someone
while your are doing it, then you aren't even close! It is uncomfortable, yes. Start slow and work your way up to it. There is no point to just spinning your wheels any longer. And no, doing 3 sets of 12-15 will not enhance fat burning or create a more defined body. This type of weight training actually conditions muscular enzymes to become more efficient at handling lactic acid.Lactic acid is basically a glucose molecule split in two, and being an acid, it burns. It is not, however, an indication that you are burning more fat.
so as i tried to explain to Nonerz, the rest of your 40 minute spin class is dedicated to lactic acid creation, uptake, warmup, cooldown and stretching. i wouldnt say that the whole 40 minutes is wasted, per se, but can be done effectively in 20.
similar to volume training with weights, cardio "volume" training is becoming a thing of the past. people are realizing the importance of working with challenging (both mental and physical) exercises to yield maximum results. the example given about the flyswatter illustrates what happens when doing those sprints, yes there is resistance, but not enough. it causes the heart to pound but the legs are only recruiting the necessary motor units to do the job, not near EVERY motor unit to do the job. see the difference? you feel worn out during this time because of the speed, light resistance and CNS fatigue.
im not sitting on either side of the fence because i understand how cardio needs to be comfortable to do first before it can be a habit and spinning is a way to make the pill easier to swallow. the problem lies in the motivation of the average gym member to swallow...."a larger more uncomfortable pill".
lets go back to the principles of changing a cardio exercise, using the FITT idea:
Frequency: how many times a week you do the exercise
Intensity: how hard you go.
Time: how long you do it.
Type: the type of exercise/movements done.
frequency is the easiest the change, but may not be the most reasonable due to time constraints, recovery times and the above mentioned EPOC.
intensity: here is where it is important, especially when we are talking about EPOC.
time: this should be related to intensity, and should be held at a roughly set time, so you can ensure you have a goal in sight, and a means to push yourself.
type: this is an important aspect because as you continue to do a mode of cardio over and over, you become efficient at it. your body learns to do certain tasks using the least amount of motion, motor units, muscle, whathaveyou, as possible. basically, if you start a job on an assembly line, you are worn out your first day because you dont have your motion down pat, and spend alot of energy moving unnecessarily. or think of it this way. you start out being able to jump up onto a 30 in box and are barely making it, but the next week you can jump up onto a 32 in box with the same amount of effort, but stay with the 30 inch box and just jump up to it. following week, 34 in is possible, but stay with the 30 in box. basically you are putting out less effort, muscularly, and completing the same task. "its getting easier for me".
i understand that in spin class, they give you numbers of perceived exertion, and thats good. it offers a formatted exercise class, with a pseudo interval workout in the middle. im not bashing spin, nor am i siding with edgecrusher wholeheartedly, just trying to give some insight into the principles of cardio, so everyone can understand there has to be a method to the madness. as for what Poliquin said about fat deposition, it could be, maybe not. i havent cut too many legs open to see. but 40 minutes with 20 minutes of productivity (spin) or just 20-25 minutes to stimulate EPOC (HIIT style) and getting the hell out of the gym seems like a choice everyone has to make. i wont attack anyone's choice of exercise, because everyone has a different goal, set of circumstances, etc. there are no absolutes for what works with people due to mental and physical issues.
i say do what you feel comfortable with, sometimes its a longer road to get there, but its your road to your goals. just make sure you understand why you are taking that route, educate yourself on other routes, and travel the one you like the view with.
peace.
