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Anybody SPIN?
- Thread starter JKurz1
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edgecrusher
New member
It is also quite possibly the worst one ever invented.
S
slobberknocker
Guest
bigstve12 said:
Ditto! Definitely looks like a tough workout!
Mike_Rojas
New member
What is SPIN?
Mike_Rojas
New member
I'd rather ride a real bike. I hate cardio equipment.
edgecrusher
New member
Nonerz said:
We have a running joke at our facility, the best way to get fat, is to eat bagels, rice cakes and take spin classes. lol Here is a link, check it out. http://www.charlespoliquin.net/spinning.html
Nonerz
New member
Too funny Joker! No, this is a cardio class few people dare to take...for good reason too. It's up to you to challenge yourself and get the most of your workout. That's why some people don't like it and why some people love it. They get out exactly what they put in.JOKER47 said:
Not for the meek at heart, right Synpax!
JKurz1
Banned
Everyone has got something negative to say about EVERYTHING.......f-ing crazy............wasn't a fan of spinning until I tried it.....I'm pretty confident that those4 that try and find defenses (i.e. butt and thighs will get huge) are the ones that could benefit from it the most............
DieselFueled
New member
My girlfriend is a Spin instructor, you can't pinch an ounce of fat anywhere on her lower body. I took the class once and I damn near threw up. I thought it sounded easy, but it really does mimic cycling and all of the climbing done on a bike.
As far as Poliquin, he should look at the Tour de France field if he feels cycling creates fat thighs, I could fit my hand around the entire field's thighs. The reason he sees so many overweight women in spinning classes is because they go once or twice a week or whatever, they use a very low intensity, then they continue to eat in a very poor manner. If you eat like shit, it doesn't matter how you train, you will be fat, I am sure Poliquin knows that, but he had to spout off anyway. Possibly the diet of the girl he trained changed and thats why her BF dropped, besides, 9% bf on a woman can't be too good, and why it is attainable, I can't see how a girl could hold that for more than a day, but that is Poliquin, just like all his clients run a 3.2 forty and bench 900lbs at 0.1% bodyfat because of the use of such miracles of training as the swiss ball.
Regardless, I train to gain strength, and the LAST thing I want is small legs, but I just had to say something because I know for a fatct that cycling (spinning mimics cycling) does not cause fat to be stored. That is ridiculous. Look at the average trainee in the gym, they look like shit, they don't work out hard and they eat like shit. If you spin intensely and eat right, you will NOT become fat. My rant is over, that just got be fired up because I think Poliquin, is an an intelligent guy, and he used an example of he average woman to bash a form of exercise that is very beneficial if done with proper intensity and a proper diet is followed. I mean, if you live on bagels and rice cake you'll be fat no matter how you train. Maybe the ladies he sees spin half assed then go to Krispy Kreme, I know what I have seen, and that is people dropping enormous amounts of bodyfat and building firm muscle in their legs through spinning. I by no means have the desire to train like that, but it does NOT build fat.
Tell Lance Armstrong and Jan Ulrich that they only "think" they are working hard, but they are truly bulding fat, and swatting a fly swatter 100 times in 30 seconds is equivalent to what they are doing.
As far as Poliquin, he should look at the Tour de France field if he feels cycling creates fat thighs, I could fit my hand around the entire field's thighs. The reason he sees so many overweight women in spinning classes is because they go once or twice a week or whatever, they use a very low intensity, then they continue to eat in a very poor manner. If you eat like shit, it doesn't matter how you train, you will be fat, I am sure Poliquin knows that, but he had to spout off anyway. Possibly the diet of the girl he trained changed and thats why her BF dropped, besides, 9% bf on a woman can't be too good, and why it is attainable, I can't see how a girl could hold that for more than a day, but that is Poliquin, just like all his clients run a 3.2 forty and bench 900lbs at 0.1% bodyfat because of the use of such miracles of training as the swiss ball.
Regardless, I train to gain strength, and the LAST thing I want is small legs, but I just had to say something because I know for a fatct that cycling (spinning mimics cycling) does not cause fat to be stored. That is ridiculous. Look at the average trainee in the gym, they look like shit, they don't work out hard and they eat like shit. If you spin intensely and eat right, you will NOT become fat. My rant is over, that just got be fired up because I think Poliquin, is an an intelligent guy, and he used an example of he average woman to bash a form of exercise that is very beneficial if done with proper intensity and a proper diet is followed. I mean, if you live on bagels and rice cake you'll be fat no matter how you train. Maybe the ladies he sees spin half assed then go to Krispy Kreme, I know what I have seen, and that is people dropping enormous amounts of bodyfat and building firm muscle in their legs through spinning. I by no means have the desire to train like that, but it does NOT build fat.
Tell Lance Armstrong and Jan Ulrich that they only "think" they are working hard, but they are truly bulding fat, and swatting a fly swatter 100 times in 30 seconds is equivalent to what they are doing.
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overhead
New member
edgecrusher said:
Here is a quote from the article. So I guess *targeted* fat lose is possible according to Mr. Poliquin, or am I just reading this wrong?
"In spinning exercise, the body adapts by storing both intra-muscular and subcutaneous fat in the thigh and hip areas to provide a more readily available source of fuel for the aerobic recovery periods. The body figures out, if I store fat there it reduces the time to get to the muscles to provide the energy source. Result: Kobe beef thighs and butt, all plump and marbled with fat inside."
JKurz1
Banned
My girlfriend is a Spin instructor, you can't pinch an ounce of fat anywhere on her lower body. I took the class once and I damn near threw up. I thought it sounded easy, but it really does mimic cycling and all of the climbing done on a bike.
As far as Poliquin, he should look at the Tour de France field if he feels cycling creates fat thighs, I could fit my hand around the entire field's thighs. The reason he sees so many overweight women in spinning classes is because they go once or twice a week or whatever, they use a very low intensity, then they continue to eat in a very poor manner. If you eat like shit, it doesn't matter how you train, you will be fat, I am sure Poliquin knows that, but he had to spout off anyway. Possibly the diet of the girl he trained changed and thats why her BF dropped, besides, 9% bf on a woman can't be too good, and why it is attainable, I can't see how a girl could hold that for more than a day, but that is Poliquin, just like all his clients run a 3.2 forty and bench 900lbs at 0.1% bodyfat because of the use of such miracles of training as the swiss ball.
Regardless, I train to gain strength, and the LAST thing I want is small legs, but I just had to say something because I know for a fatct that cycling (spinning mimics cycling) does not cause fat to be stored. That is ridiculous. Look at the average trainee in the gym, they look like shit, they don't work out hard and they eat like shit. If you spin intensely and eat right, you will NOT become fat. My rant is over, that just got be fired up because I think Poliquin, is an an intelligent guy, and he used an example of he average woman to bash a form of exercise that is very beneficial if done with proper intensity and a proper diet is followed. I mean, if you live on bagels and rice cake you'll be fat no matter how you train. Maybe the ladies he sees spin half assed then go to Krispy Kreme, I know what I have seen, and that is people dropping enormous amounts of bodyfat and building firm muscle in their legs through spinning. I by no means have the desire to train like that, but it does NOT build fat.
Tell Lance Armstrong and Jan Ulrich that they only "think" they are working hard, but they are truly bulding fat, and swatting a fly swatter 100 times in 30 seconds is equivalent to what they are doing.
NICELY POSTED!
As far as Poliquin, he should look at the Tour de France field if he feels cycling creates fat thighs, I could fit my hand around the entire field's thighs. The reason he sees so many overweight women in spinning classes is because they go once or twice a week or whatever, they use a very low intensity, then they continue to eat in a very poor manner. If you eat like shit, it doesn't matter how you train, you will be fat, I am sure Poliquin knows that, but he had to spout off anyway. Possibly the diet of the girl he trained changed and thats why her BF dropped, besides, 9% bf on a woman can't be too good, and why it is attainable, I can't see how a girl could hold that for more than a day, but that is Poliquin, just like all his clients run a 3.2 forty and bench 900lbs at 0.1% bodyfat because of the use of such miracles of training as the swiss ball.
Regardless, I train to gain strength, and the LAST thing I want is small legs, but I just had to say something because I know for a fatct that cycling (spinning mimics cycling) does not cause fat to be stored. That is ridiculous. Look at the average trainee in the gym, they look like shit, they don't work out hard and they eat like shit. If you spin intensely and eat right, you will NOT become fat. My rant is over, that just got be fired up because I think Poliquin, is an an intelligent guy, and he used an example of he average woman to bash a form of exercise that is very beneficial if done with proper intensity and a proper diet is followed. I mean, if you live on bagels and rice cake you'll be fat no matter how you train. Maybe the ladies he sees spin half assed then go to Krispy Kreme, I know what I have seen, and that is people dropping enormous amounts of bodyfat and building firm muscle in their legs through spinning. I by no means have the desire to train like that, but it does NOT build fat.
Tell Lance Armstrong and Jan Ulrich that they only "think" they are working hard, but they are truly bulding fat, and swatting a fly swatter 100 times in 30 seconds is equivalent to what they are doing.
NICELY POSTED!
edgecrusher
New member
overhead said:
In actuality, Charles does not feel that spot reduction is possible. Fat deposition is partly due to hormonal output, as he mentions the article.
However, it has been shown over the years that individuals can accelerate fat loss from certain areas, but this generally takes the appliance of a topical or injectable product.
edgecrusher
New member
As far as Poliquin, he should look at the Tour de France field if he feels cycling creates fat thighs, I could fit my hand around the entire field's thighs. The reason he sees so many overweight women in spinning classes is because they go once or twice a week or whatever, they use a very low intensity, then they continue to eat in a very poor manner. If you eat like shit, it doesn't matter how you train, you will be fat, I am sure Poliquin knows that, but he had to spout off anyway. Possibly the diet of the girl he trained changed and thats why her BF dropped, besides, 9% bf on a woman can't be too good, and why it is attainable, I can't see how a girl could hold that for more than a day, but that is Poliquin, just like all his clients run a 3.2 forty and bench 900lbs at 0.1% bodyfat because of the use of such miracles of training as the swiss ball.
Most of these athletes are built similar to marathon runners. although there bf% is low, they still have high fat stores in certain areas.
Most of these athletes are built similar to marathon runners. although there bf% is low, they still have high fat stores in certain areas.
DieselFueled
New member
The point I am trying to make is that Poliquin is using an example of the average American woman who goes to spinning classes. I KNOW the average person who trains does so with a low intensity, barely breaks a sweat, and eats total garbage at all the wrong times. I just think he used a poor example to bash a method of training because the people who spin hard and cycle hard and eat right are not by any means fat asses, although they may not use other methods to tone muscles, they are not fat.
The elite athletes who spin/cycle do have low bodyfat % and that is what is important for their sport, everybody is gonna have deposits of unwanted weight somewhere unless you're a precontest bodybuilder using all sorts of drugs and starvation tactics to get rid of every last ounce, creating an unhealthy state that you can only hold on to for a few hours at best (9% bf on a woman, roughly speaking)
But all things aside, I think the image being created was that no matter who you are, if you spin, you will be a 300lb lard ass in spandex peddling around pointlessly not breaking a sweat, and that just isn't true.
As far as release of hormones, I understand the point, but in that case, people should only deadlift, squat, and do olympic movements in sessions not lasting longer than 45 minutes if you only want optimal hormone release. While I like to train in this manner, I am sure you agree that it is not necessary or even optimal for a lot of athletes (endurance in particular) to train this way, nor is it necessary for the average American looking to shed some pounds and be a little healthier.
The elite athletes who spin/cycle do have low bodyfat % and that is what is important for their sport, everybody is gonna have deposits of unwanted weight somewhere unless you're a precontest bodybuilder using all sorts of drugs and starvation tactics to get rid of every last ounce, creating an unhealthy state that you can only hold on to for a few hours at best (9% bf on a woman, roughly speaking)
But all things aside, I think the image being created was that no matter who you are, if you spin, you will be a 300lb lard ass in spandex peddling around pointlessly not breaking a sweat, and that just isn't true.
As far as release of hormones, I understand the point, but in that case, people should only deadlift, squat, and do olympic movements in sessions not lasting longer than 45 minutes if you only want optimal hormone release. While I like to train in this manner, I am sure you agree that it is not necessary or even optimal for a lot of athletes (endurance in particular) to train this way, nor is it necessary for the average American looking to shed some pounds and be a little healthier.
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Nonerz
New member
From the article:
Well, that brings me back to my earlier point about spin...
It's up to you to challenge yourself and get the most of your workout. That's why some people don't like it and why some people love it. They get out exactly what they put in.
In the classes they offer at my gym, the bikes all have a resistance knob that you turn up and down, depending on whatever drill you are doing. Sometimes you have the tension set very low and you are in a sprint...other times the tension is cranked up and you are fighting your way up a hill.
Personally, I use resistance and I don't see the point of not using resistance (at least in intervals). Maybe that is the difference.
Well, that brings me back to my earlier point about spin...
It's up to you to challenge yourself and get the most of your workout. That's why some people don't like it and why some people love it. They get out exactly what they put in.
In the classes they offer at my gym, the bikes all have a resistance knob that you turn up and down, depending on whatever drill you are doing. Sometimes you have the tension set very low and you are in a sprint...other times the tension is cranked up and you are fighting your way up a hill.
Personally, I use resistance and I don't see the point of not using resistance (at least in intervals). Maybe that is the difference.
JKurz1
Banned
Hey, spinning isn't going to change your f-ing diet.......I got down to a tad under 6% bf from my DIET, but spinning 3-4x week assisted in the process...now I do it once, maybe twice a week to maintain my certificate........tis all I was saying....if you are looking for a solid, intense cardio wo, try it..........if you are looking for a change of lifestyle, then re-evaluate what you do the other 23 hours of the day......
It pumped the crap out my thighs and butt. Felt like I was walking on stilts when I got off the bike. I did it 3x in one week and my thighs held like a .75" pump.
edgecrusher
New member
There is a point here most people are missing. Now, I am making the assumption that most people here are BBers, or fitness enthusiests who are looking to get leaner and look better. That being said, all I am attempting to do, is offer information that may lead them to an optimal path. Now, Science is beginning to show that intense cardio is the way to go to get lean. (Look at a sprinter vs. a marathon runner.) If you are performing a class that lasts for 1 hour, it can not be considered intense.
Before I got into S&C coaching, I was a personal trainer, who worked a lot w/ pre contest bbers. None of my individual did more then 20 minutes of cardio, and all got to single digit bf%. Basically, what I'm saying is Dpin if you want to, but there are better ways. I hope that clears everything up. Good luck to all, and thak you for the discussion.
Before I got into S&C coaching, I was a personal trainer, who worked a lot w/ pre contest bbers. None of my individual did more then 20 minutes of cardio, and all got to single digit bf%. Basically, what I'm saying is Dpin if you want to, but there are better ways. I hope that clears everything up. Good luck to all, and thak you for the discussion.
Nonerz
New member
Not a flame, but I just don't get your point. I assume that we are all into fitness, one way or another, but have specific personal goals.
The class I take is actually 40 minutes, including the warm up and cool down/stretching. Believe you me...it IS intense!
20 minutes of cardio may work for most people, but I'm just beyond warmed up at that point, ready to push myself...not stop. Then again, diet is probably the bigger factor with your pre contest BB'ers...not the fact that they only did 20 minutes of cardio!
So did you have a bad experience or was it the article that put the bad taste in your mouth? What is the better way? I'm feeling adventurous now!
The class I take is actually 40 minutes, including the warm up and cool down/stretching. Believe you me...it IS intense!
20 minutes of cardio may work for most people, but I'm just beyond warmed up at that point, ready to push myself...not stop. Then again, diet is probably the bigger factor with your pre contest BB'ers...not the fact that they only did 20 minutes of cardio!
So did you have a bad experience or was it the article that put the bad taste in your mouth? What is the better way? I'm feeling adventurous now!
bignate73
New member
what he is saying is (as i understand it):
-20 minutes of high intensity cardio is all that was needed (and more productive) IF....
-diet is met.
a 40 minute spin class is probably 20 minutes of the high intensity stuff, with warmup/cooldown and stretching added in.
think of it like when we drag the sled, we are already warmed up, go out get the job done and come back in. that usually takes 30 minutes for both of us (alternating). and we are working on technique. imagine just setting up a medley and doing that for 15-20 minutes straight, it would be akin to the intervals/high portion of spin.
high intensity cardio burning more absolute calories and increasing your afterburn post workout is very efficient and effective.
-20 minutes of high intensity cardio is all that was needed (and more productive) IF....
-diet is met.
a 40 minute spin class is probably 20 minutes of the high intensity stuff, with warmup/cooldown and stretching added in.
think of it like when we drag the sled, we are already warmed up, go out get the job done and come back in. that usually takes 30 minutes for both of us (alternating). and we are working on technique. imagine just setting up a medley and doing that for 15-20 minutes straight, it would be akin to the intervals/high portion of spin.
high intensity cardio burning more absolute calories and increasing your afterburn post workout is very efficient and effective.
Mike_Rojas
New member
If it's anything like mountain biking up the hills in Palos Verdes, CA, my hat is off to you guys.
bignate73
New member
Nonerz said:
so....ive probably never heard this before:
with that being said....
"Which is best for burning fat – high-intensity or low-intensity cardio?
Losing fat is a matter of consuming fewer calories than those that are expended. So, whatever allows one to burn more calories is preferable. Performing cardio at a higher intensity (based upon abilities) will allow one to burn more calories in less time. Additionally, high-intensity cardiorespiratory exercise has been shown to increase metabolic rate for a longer period post exercise (EPOC) than lower-intensity cardio."
-Apex Fitness Group website Cardiovascular FAQ
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edgecrusher
New member
Thank you Bignate!!!
Nonerz- I did not have a bad experience, but when you look at the science and the results, I just don't think it is worth it. In fact I've seen many women, that do. do everything right outside of the gym and still maintain those saddle bag looking legs. Another thing, how intense can a class be when the instructor needs to gear it for a group of people? i understand you can control the resistance, but the jumps climbs and what not are controlled by the instructor.
Nonerz- I did not have a bad experience, but when you look at the science and the results, I just don't think it is worth it. In fact I've seen many women, that do. do everything right outside of the gym and still maintain those saddle bag looking legs. Another thing, how intense can a class be when the instructor needs to gear it for a group of people? i understand you can control the resistance, but the jumps climbs and what not are controlled by the instructor.
bignate73
New member
i see the breakdown in communication. i know nonerz cranks up the intensity, if there were just a way to cut out all the fluff and get to the tough stuff with a light warmup that would be a more productive spin class.
the part that CP was talking about in the article is the high speed sprints with nearly no resistance. thats making you tired but not challenging the muscles that much. it burns out the CNS fast, people only percieve fatigue as fatigue, "all i know is my legs are dead". this could have been muscular or neural.
ive actually used spin bikes as cardio, but i get on, warm up for about a minute or 2, then out of the seat, high tension for a minute, back down to recover for a minute, so on and so forth. real intervals. alot of the speed work i dont need to get tired, i can take the strong turtle method. hehehe.
the part that CP was talking about in the article is the high speed sprints with nearly no resistance. thats making you tired but not challenging the muscles that much. it burns out the CNS fast, people only percieve fatigue as fatigue, "all i know is my legs are dead". this could have been muscular or neural.
ive actually used spin bikes as cardio, but i get on, warm up for about a minute or 2, then out of the seat, high tension for a minute, back down to recover for a minute, so on and so forth. real intervals. alot of the speed work i dont need to get tired, i can take the strong turtle method. hehehe.
Nonerz
New member
The instructor sets the pace...it's up to you to keep up, or blow past her. It's hard to explain, especially to someone who hasn't ever taken a spin class. It's easy to dismiss as "just another aerobics class" for overweight housewives.
How can this be:
"In fact I've seen many women, that do. do everything right outside of the gym and still maintain those saddle bag looking legs."
--I'm assuming you mean that their diet is 100% and all they are doing is spin? I'm not advocating that for sure...I gotta lift too.
Sorry if I'm coming off strong...I have to wake up really early to make it to the gym at 5 AM for this class and it kicks my ass every single time...because I want it to and I work really hard.
It's hard to explain, especially to someone who hasn't ever taken a spin class. It's easy to dismiss as "just another aerobics class" for overweight housewives. How can this be:
"In fact I've seen many women, that do. do everything right outside of the gym and still maintain those saddle bag looking legs."
--I'm assuming you mean that their diet is 100% and all they are doing is spin? I'm not advocating that for sure...I gotta lift too.
Sorry if I'm coming off strong...I have to wake up really early to make it to the gym at 5 AM for this class and it kicks my ass every single time...because I want it to and I work really hard.
bignate73
New member
this is getting nowhere.
if you work hard fine, if not then let the speed portions "burn" you out and know that you didnt burn near as many calories as if you had pushed it on the hills.
all those leg muscles burn more calories than the heart. so which will be harder, hills(heavy leg work)? or speed(light leg involvement/momentum)?
if you work hard fine, if not then let the speed portions "burn" you out and know that you didnt burn near as many calories as if you had pushed it on the hills.
all those leg muscles burn more calories than the heart. so which will be harder, hills(heavy leg work)? or speed(light leg involvement/momentum)?
bignate73
New member
ok, this got blown way out of proportion.....
to summarize the point of edgecrusher's "20 min" of cardio, here is a way to understand the purpose or "science" behind it....
Excess Post - exercise Oxygen Consumption. How much
oxygen you consume during the other 23 hours of the day. Why is that important?
Well, the amount of oxygen consumed is a very accurate way to determine how many calories your are burning. Lower intensity exercise does not create this effect. On the other hand both High intensity cardiovascular and weight training do. When intensities reach levels of approx 85%VO2 Max, the EPOC can last for up to 2-3 days. Your metabolism will literally be a Colorado forest fire You can work out for shorter durations (15min) and get better results. How do you know when you've reached the right level of intensity? Well to make it simple, if you can talk to someone
while your are doing it, then you aren't even close! It is uncomfortable, yes. Start slow and work your way up to it. There is no point to just spinning your wheels any longer. And no, doing 3 sets of 12-15 will not enhance fat burning or create a more defined body. This type of weight training actually conditions muscular enzymes to become more efficient at handling lactic acid.Lactic acid is basically a glucose molecule split in two, and being an acid, it burns. It is not, however, an indication that you are burning more fat.
so as i tried to explain to Nonerz, the rest of your 40 minute spin class is dedicated to lactic acid creation, uptake, warmup, cooldown and stretching. i wouldnt say that the whole 40 minutes is wasted, per se, but can be done effectively in 20.
similar to volume training with weights, cardio "volume" training is becoming a thing of the past. people are realizing the importance of working with challenging (both mental and physical) exercises to yield maximum results. the example given about the flyswatter illustrates what happens when doing those sprints, yes there is resistance, but not enough. it causes the heart to pound but the legs are only recruiting the necessary motor units to do the job, not near EVERY motor unit to do the job. see the difference? you feel worn out during this time because of the speed, light resistance and CNS fatigue.
im not sitting on either side of the fence because i understand how cardio needs to be comfortable to do first before it can be a habit and spinning is a way to make the pill easier to swallow. the problem lies in the motivation of the average gym member to swallow...."a larger more uncomfortable pill".
lets go back to the principles of changing a cardio exercise, using the FITT idea:
Frequency: how many times a week you do the exercise
Intensity: how hard you go.
Time: how long you do it.
Type: the type of exercise/movements done.
frequency is the easiest the change, but may not be the most reasonable due to time constraints, recovery times and the above mentioned EPOC.
intensity: here is where it is important, especially when we are talking about EPOC.
time: this should be related to intensity, and should be held at a roughly set time, so you can ensure you have a goal in sight, and a means to push yourself.
type: this is an important aspect because as you continue to do a mode of cardio over and over, you become efficient at it. your body learns to do certain tasks using the least amount of motion, motor units, muscle, whathaveyou, as possible. basically, if you start a job on an assembly line, you are worn out your first day because you dont have your motion down pat, and spend alot of energy moving unnecessarily. or think of it this way. you start out being able to jump up onto a 30 in box and are barely making it, but the next week you can jump up onto a 32 in box with the same amount of effort, but stay with the 30 inch box and just jump up to it. following week, 34 in is possible, but stay with the 30 in box. basically you are putting out less effort, muscularly, and completing the same task. "its getting easier for me".
i understand that in spin class, they give you numbers of perceived exertion, and thats good. it offers a formatted exercise class, with a pseudo interval workout in the middle. im not bashing spin, nor am i siding with edgecrusher wholeheartedly, just trying to give some insight into the principles of cardio, so everyone can understand there has to be a method to the madness. as for what Poliquin said about fat deposition, it could be, maybe not. i havent cut too many legs open to see. but 40 minutes with 20 minutes of productivity (spin) or just 20-25 minutes to stimulate EPOC (HIIT style) and getting the hell out of the gym seems like a choice everyone has to make. i wont attack anyone's choice of exercise, because everyone has a different goal, set of circumstances, etc. there are no absolutes for what works with people due to mental and physical issues.
i say do what you feel comfortable with, sometimes its a longer road to get there, but its your road to your goals. just make sure you understand why you are taking that route, educate yourself on other routes, and travel the one you like the view with.
peace.
to summarize the point of edgecrusher's "20 min" of cardio, here is a way to understand the purpose or "science" behind it....
Excess Post - exercise Oxygen Consumption. How much
oxygen you consume during the other 23 hours of the day. Why is that important?
Well, the amount of oxygen consumed is a very accurate way to determine how many calories your are burning. Lower intensity exercise does not create this effect. On the other hand both High intensity cardiovascular and weight training do. When intensities reach levels of approx 85%VO2 Max, the EPOC can last for up to 2-3 days. Your metabolism will literally be a Colorado forest fire You can work out for shorter durations (15min) and get better results. How do you know when you've reached the right level of intensity? Well to make it simple, if you can talk to someone
while your are doing it, then you aren't even close! It is uncomfortable, yes. Start slow and work your way up to it. There is no point to just spinning your wheels any longer. And no, doing 3 sets of 12-15 will not enhance fat burning or create a more defined body. This type of weight training actually conditions muscular enzymes to become more efficient at handling lactic acid.Lactic acid is basically a glucose molecule split in two, and being an acid, it burns. It is not, however, an indication that you are burning more fat.
so as i tried to explain to Nonerz, the rest of your 40 minute spin class is dedicated to lactic acid creation, uptake, warmup, cooldown and stretching. i wouldnt say that the whole 40 minutes is wasted, per se, but can be done effectively in 20.
similar to volume training with weights, cardio "volume" training is becoming a thing of the past. people are realizing the importance of working with challenging (both mental and physical) exercises to yield maximum results. the example given about the flyswatter illustrates what happens when doing those sprints, yes there is resistance, but not enough. it causes the heart to pound but the legs are only recruiting the necessary motor units to do the job, not near EVERY motor unit to do the job. see the difference? you feel worn out during this time because of the speed, light resistance and CNS fatigue.
im not sitting on either side of the fence because i understand how cardio needs to be comfortable to do first before it can be a habit and spinning is a way to make the pill easier to swallow. the problem lies in the motivation of the average gym member to swallow...."a larger more uncomfortable pill".
lets go back to the principles of changing a cardio exercise, using the FITT idea:
Frequency: how many times a week you do the exercise
Intensity: how hard you go.
Time: how long you do it.
Type: the type of exercise/movements done.
frequency is the easiest the change, but may not be the most reasonable due to time constraints, recovery times and the above mentioned EPOC.
intensity: here is where it is important, especially when we are talking about EPOC.
time: this should be related to intensity, and should be held at a roughly set time, so you can ensure you have a goal in sight, and a means to push yourself.
type: this is an important aspect because as you continue to do a mode of cardio over and over, you become efficient at it. your body learns to do certain tasks using the least amount of motion, motor units, muscle, whathaveyou, as possible. basically, if you start a job on an assembly line, you are worn out your first day because you dont have your motion down pat, and spend alot of energy moving unnecessarily. or think of it this way. you start out being able to jump up onto a 30 in box and are barely making it, but the next week you can jump up onto a 32 in box with the same amount of effort, but stay with the 30 inch box and just jump up to it. following week, 34 in is possible, but stay with the 30 in box. basically you are putting out less effort, muscularly, and completing the same task. "its getting easier for me".
i understand that in spin class, they give you numbers of perceived exertion, and thats good. it offers a formatted exercise class, with a pseudo interval workout in the middle. im not bashing spin, nor am i siding with edgecrusher wholeheartedly, just trying to give some insight into the principles of cardio, so everyone can understand there has to be a method to the madness. as for what Poliquin said about fat deposition, it could be, maybe not. i havent cut too many legs open to see. but 40 minutes with 20 minutes of productivity (spin) or just 20-25 minutes to stimulate EPOC (HIIT style) and getting the hell out of the gym seems like a choice everyone has to make. i wont attack anyone's choice of exercise, because everyone has a different goal, set of circumstances, etc. there are no absolutes for what works with people due to mental and physical issues.
i say do what you feel comfortable with, sometimes its a longer road to get there, but its your road to your goals. just make sure you understand why you are taking that route, educate yourself on other routes, and travel the one you like the view with.
peace.
edgecrusher
New member
OK, I am officially keeping bignate on retainer, because, he is better at expressing my thoughts then I am. lol Bignate, If I ever need a lawyer, guess who I'm PMing. lol ANyway, I think it is best to let this one go, we aren't getting anywhere... so lets all just agree to disagree....shall we?
Nonerz, good luck in your class tomorrow. Give it hell!!!
Bignate, thank you once again for coming in and meadiaiting the situation.
Nonerz, good luck in your class tomorrow. Give it hell!!!
Bignate, thank you once again for coming in and meadiaiting the situation.
Nonerz
New member
Wow bignate, that was the most stimulating thing you've ever "said" to me! All those really big words and concepts really got me going now!
edgecrusher - I agree that we shall disagree on this. In addition, I will be blowing off tomorrow morning's spin class in your honor.
BTW, I'm a big girl and don't need a mediator.
edgecrusher - I agree that we shall disagree on this. In addition, I will be blowing off tomorrow morning's spin class in your honor.
BTW, I'm a big girl and don't need a mediator.
supersizeme
New member
don't you two go breaking up over a spinning thread. one of you cook dinner for the other tomorrow night then afterwards you can push the sled together in front of the fireplace
edgecrusher
New member
Nonerz said:Wow bignate, that was the most stimulating thing you've ever "said" to me! All those really big words and concepts really got me going now!
edgecrusher - I agree that we shall disagree on this. In addition, I will be blowing off tomorrow morning's spin class in your honor.
Ata girl, welcome to the darkside
BTW, I'm a big girl and don't need a mediator.
You may not need a mediator, but I sure as hell do lol.
Have a good holiday everyone!!!
