Aifm Rash Poll

[Ulter]

No you've done none that. You've fed you own ego, found a way to get yourself banned, (you're on borrowed time right now), and in the process only showed that none of the things you accused me and my company of are true.
The log of the poll is posted in the Mod forum and it shows no tampering of the poll. Only your posts are being edited on the poll. Believe it or not you aren't allowed to call moderators liars and scammers and not get edited. Imagine that.
No one really cares about your poll enough to edit it.

In a week from now no one will remember your name and you'll be a bad memory of how not to conduct yourself on this board. I hope this was all worth it to you.

 

[drrman]

He may have conducted himself in a bit of a wrong way, but if he gets banned for this i think that is just wrong!.....maybe get reprimanded and told not to call names, but not banned......this site is notorious for banning everyone that doesn't "fit" right in and kiss everyone's ass.....Everyone has made some good points, i haven't used AIFM, so i can't say, i do know that i prefer NOT to use anything i have to rub on my skin as i just don't see a need in rubbing anythign on me externally when i can just put it down my throat....BUT...there other products i have used are nothing short of GREAT..sesapure/glucorell/thermorexin....maybe they need to take a look at AIFM and regroup on this one product .and we all already knew who was on what payroll and who is on what team, so thats no big deal!!

 

[itlnstln]

No you've done none that. You've fed you own ego, found a way to get yourself banned, (you're on borrowed time right now), and in the process only showed that none of the things you accused me and my company of are true.
The log of the poll is posted in the Mod forum and it shows no tampering of the poll. Only your posts are being edited on the poll. Believe it or not you aren't allowed to call moderators liars and scammers and not get edited. Imagine that.
No one really cares about your poll enough to edit it.

In a week from now no one will remember your name and you'll be a bad memory of how not to conduct yourself on this board. I hope this was all worth it to you.

I can't call a MOD a liar?
I didn't create the poll - (I was against it) - Go back and look
Is this an official threat that I WILL definitely be banned?

 

[nuevo laredo]

I accomplished what i set out to do:

1.) Expose that WAY more people were hurt by your product than you say
...
But I DO care about good bro's health and I DO care about this site.

Well said - I'm impressed with your committment to the forum and all of the people who you consider your bros. I wish that I had the time to dedicate to something that I enjoy and care about but I don't.
Regarding the poll, I'm concerned about that there does not seem to be a number of negative posts in proportion to the negative votes in the poll.

Why don't we start a thread about ATD and its side effects versus other AIs?

Let's leave all the drama out and have a an educational discussion that is agnostic of any specific products and instead focuses on the chemicals themselves.

Let's have a real discussion here and can all this BS.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466781

 

[Ulter]

He may have conducted himself in a bit of a wrong way, but if he gets banned for this i think that is just wrong!.....maybe get reprimanded and told not to call names, but not banned......this site is notorious for banning everyone that doesn't "fit" right in and kiss everyone's ass.....Everyone has made some good points, i haven't used AIFM, so i can't say, i do know that i prefer NOT to use anything i have to rub on my skin as i just don't see a need in rubbing anythign on me externally when i can just put it down my throat....BUT...there other products i have used are nothing short of GREAT..sesapure/glucorell/thermorexin....maybe they need to take a look at AIFM and regroup on this one product .and we all already knew who was on what payroll and who is on what team, so thats no big deal!!

I have been here 6 years. I have supported this board for 5 years. I have answered thousands of questions and helped thousands of members here without any financial incentive. Do you see a single other sponsor helping people with cycling safely on this board? Have you ever? That doesn't put money in my pocket. I do it because I like to. I like helping out, simple as that.
Now someone comes on the board and attacks me, my intregrity, the intregrity of my company, accuses me of being dishonest in the worst way, defames my partner, his integrity and his honesty, and you think this is the way this board should be conducted. You're wrong.
I have put in too many hours, days, weeks, years, helping everyone here to have some child come and talk to me or about me this way.

There is nothing to regroup about. AIFM is doing fine on every other board it's sold on. There are a handful of people who are allergic to it. As I have said there are a handful of people allergic to Sesapure. We're not pulling either product. AIFM has already been reformulated to be much milder on the skin. This hysteria is the work of one moderator who is paid to get rid of AIFM for our competitor. He started with, "it's just a supp" and went to, "it doesn't work" and then went to, "it costs more than arimidex", and then got hold of the rash a few people got and enlisted itlnstln, who never even used it, to help him bash the product over the rash. With the hundreds of people using AIFM you've got about 7 or 8 here saying they got a rash. No one is running or hiding this from anyone. But someone is trying to make it much bigger than it is.

 

[Prizz]

I gotta say that if this mess makes Ulter and Macro not post here anymore, I'm gonna be fucking pissed off..... I'm sure many other members feel the same way..... I think this shit needs to stop now..... AAP, you need to intervene here bro, stop this bickering between Mods and let's get back to helping eachother..... We don't wanna lose intelligent members over fucking sponsors and product promotion..... Plz don't let it come to that, cause I think it's damn near close.....

rizz

 

[nuevo laredo]

I can't call a MOD a liar?
I didn't create the poll - (I was against it) - Go back and look
Is this an official threat that I WILL definitely be banned?

You are not going to get banned except maybe for the part about calling a mod a source, but I bet that will pass.

Come on man - just relax and fight your battles the smart way, not the hard way. Oh wait I forgot, you don't read my posts anyway. Forget about it.

 

[krishna]

I got one of the free test samples before they removed one of the allergens. The stuff definitely gave me rashes. At one point, my foot looked like it had the flesh eating virus on it after all the little blisters popped. If I move the application around to a different spot EVERYTIME I use it, then it seems to be manageable (only a little irritation which goes away in a day or so), but if I hit the same spot more than once, it gets worse. I hit my feet a lot because it didn't seem to be hurting them, but one day it just freakin blew up with a crazy rash with blisters. It was pretty gay. My foot still isn't back to normal.

 

[drrman]

I have been here 6 years. I have supported this board for 5 years. I have answered thousands of questions and helped thousands of members here without any financial incentive. Do you see a single other sponsor helping people with cycling safely on this board? Have you ever? That doesn't put money in my pocket. I do it because I like to. I like helping out, simple as that.
Now someone comes on the board and attacks me, my intregrity, the intregrity of my company, accuses me of being dishonest in the worst way, defames my partner, his integrity and his honesty, and you think this is the way this board should be conducted. You're wrong.
I have put in too many hours, days, weeks, years, helping everyone here to have some child come and talk to me or about me this way.

There is nothing to regroup about. AIFM is doing fine on every other board it's sold on. There are a handful of people who are allergic to it. As I have said there are a handful of people allergic to Sesapure. We're not pulling either product. AIFM has already been reformulated to be much milder on the skin. This hysteria is the work of one moderator who is paid to get rid of AIFM for our competitor. He started with, "it's just a supp" and went to, "it doesn't work" and then went to, "it costs more than arimidex", and then got hold of the rash a few people got and enlisted itlnstln, who never even used it, to help him bash the product over the rash. With the hundreds of people using AIFM you've got about 7 or 8 here saying they got a rash. No one is running or hiding this from anyone. But someone is trying to make it much bigger than it is.

Hey bro, i never said some of the stuff you think i did there, i've been here 6 years too.....same year you did, and i know you have helped tremendously, and i still have a ton of respect for you, i wasn't saying anything bad when i said regroup, it seems as if you have already done what i meant by re-formulating the AIFM, so there that is said and done.....and you question the way "I" think this board should be ran, hell im not a mod so i have no say so anyways, i don't think a member should be banned for simply pissing off some mods, hell i've been banned here before for standing up to guys, so i just don't think him being banned will fix the situation......he admitted he got a little out of hand with the name calling and i think he did too, but he doesn't need to be banned.

Again, don't get riled up at me bro, i'm a vet if there ever was one when it comes to online discussion boards and i've been here through all kinds of shit like this.....so please don't think i don't know what is going on here. If you read back and notice, im one of the first ones that said he shouldn't be calling macro names and that was wrong

 

[itlnstln]

Well said - I'm impressed with your committment to the forum and all of the people who you consider your bros. I wish that I had the time to dedicate to something that I enjoy and care about but I don't.
Regarding the poll, I'm concerned about that there does not seem to be a number of negative posts in proportion to the negative votes in the poll.

Why don't we start a thread about ATD and its side effects versus other AIs?

Let's leave all the drama out and have a an educational discussion that is agnostic of any specific products and instead focuses on the chemicals themselves.

Let's have a real discussion here and can all this BS.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466781

Impossible - and there's nothing else to accomplish.

 

[drrman]

I gotta say that if this mess makes Ulter and Macro not post here anymore, I'm gonna be fucking pissed off..... I'm sure many other members feel the same way..... I think this shit needs to stop now..... AAP, you need to intervene here bro, stop this bickering between Mods and let's get back to helping eachother..... We don't wanna lose intelligent members over fucking sponsors and product promotion..... Plz don't let it come to that, cause I think it's damn near close.....

rizz

Hell, i can promise you they won't quit posting because of a little turmoil bro, they are both extremely intelligent individuals who have helped thousands!

 

[krishna]

When I was new, and shooting from the hip, I was allowed to do it...except when I posted studies showing AIFM wasn't such a hot product.

Then I was insulted, called a failure and fraud, and had my posts removed...only, oddly ,when I spoke badly about the primary ingredient in ATD...

Hey Anthony, is ATD the only AI that reduces brain aromatase and is an anti-androgen? What about aromasin? I know they are similar as they are both suicidal inhibitors. You should start a thread with everything you know.

 

[Ulter]

Hey bro, i never said some of the stuff you think i did there, i've been here 6 years too.....same year you did, and i know you have helped tremendously, and i still have a ton of respect for you, i wasn't saying anything bad when i said regroup, it seems as if you have already done what i meant by re-formulating the AIFM, so there that is said and done.....and you question the way "I" think this board should be ran, hell im not a mod so i have no say so anyways, i don't think a member should be banned for simply pissing off some mods, hell i've been banned here before for standing up to guys, so i just don't think him being banned will fix the situation......he admitted he got a little out of hand with the name calling and i think he did too, but he doesn't need to be banned.

Again, don't get riled up at me bro, i'm a vet if there ever was one when it comes to online discussion boards and i've been here through all kinds of shit like this.....so please don't think i don't know what is going on here. If you read back and notice, im one of the first ones that said he shouldn't be calling macro names and that was wrong

If you think this is a mess you should see behind the scenes.

You're a good friend so I don't want to come off pissed at you, it's the situation caused by people who have authority and shouldn't, and I lashed out in the wrong direction. Sorry.

 

[Mr.X]

Hey Anthony, is ATD the only AI that reduces brain aromatase and is an anti-androgen? What about aromasin? I know they are similar as they are both suicidal inhibitors. You should start a thread with everything you know.

Probably best to start a new thread about this. I don't know if he'll see it here.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

I wake up and it's actually happening

edited posts and Mac ACTUALLY tampering with the poll...................

Macro edited all of my previous attempts to post studies. He then banned me. He claimed to my buisness partner to not know anything about it. He also leveled several personal attacks at me, claiming he thought that my book wasn't very good...which was incredibly interesting since it hadn't been released yet when he said that.

He sent me insulting and threatening PMs, finally giving me the only "Bad Karma" (a Karma Bomb) I've ever gotten on EF, along with this message:

you are an idiot- if you persist in this nonsense it will be made very clear

The studies showing that AIFM is not safe or worthwhile have been suppressed until now, when I've been allowed to post them without having my posts edited or being banned.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I haven't tried AIFM yet, but I have it on-hand... I'll try it soon and report...

I have to say that I've used Liquidex before and it didn't work... I still bloated up pretty bad...I have liquid Aromasin too... looking to try that as well (and will report)

My questions about AIFM - what exactly has been causing people to break out? And how long ago was one of allergens removed? I want to make sure that I got one of the "newer batches"

My 2 cents on this.... what a complete joke this has turned out to be! I respect the mods for the valuable information they've given to everyone... I have no respect for any name-calling, slandering, bickering that's been going on.

My opinion is not every product is going to work for everyone - some will even have negative side effects - that's no reason to start a full-on war like this... I've used products from both stores that didn't work for me but you don't see me bashing? Let's be mature about this!

It's obvious where certain people's loyalties are... there's no reason they can continue promoting for "their side".... but it can be done in a manner where they don't have to bash the "other side" to make their side look better... this isn't 3rd grade!

Itnstln - I'm not getting into it with you or anyone else, but give it a rest already - stop feeding the flames and let's get on track to helping each other out, not wasting everyone's time with childish posts

It's just getting to the point where people are going to just leave EF or do something drastic like having members or even mods removed.... nobody wants that

Peace! (Really!)

 

[immortalis]

wow... i wasnt expectin this when I logged in today. I feel like im reading a tabloid mag.

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

lol@my pics still being up...
and Diesel yea those pics were like 2 WEEKS after i stopped no joke, they were bubbled and oozing shit before that...wish i had taken pics earlier...

 

[Ulter]

Macro edited all of my previous attempts to post studies. He then banned me. He claimed to my buisness partner to not know anything about it. He also leveled several personal attacks at me, claiming he thought that my book wasn't very good...which was incredibly interesting since it hadn't been released yet when he said that.

He sent me insulting and threatening PMs, finally giving me the only "Bad Karma" (a Karma Bomb) I've ever gotten on EF, along with this message:



The studies showing that AIFM is not safe or worthwhile have been suppressed until now, when I've been allowed to post them without having my posts edited or being banned.

You really have an inflated opinion of yourself. Your posts attacking Macro personally were deleted and you were suspended for the same reason. Post all day about AIFM not being effective. In the meantime not a single post has substantiated that. Even people with the rash don't want to give it up because it works so well. So you go ahead and post why it doesn't work. It's already proven effective by virtually every person that's used it.

 

[BrothaBill]

Aifm got my sister pregnant

 

[Ulter]

bill

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Hey Anthony, is ATD the only AI that reduces brain aromatase and is an anti-androgen? What about aromasin? I know they are similar as they are both suicidal inhibitors. You should start a thread with everything you know.

ALL Aromatase inhibitor reduce aromatase activity in the brain. Especially when injected or distributed by silastic capsule directly into the brain.

Yes aromasin binds to the AR with similar affinity .2% of DHT. This only has any meaning if you have no androgens.

these things were already pointed out to anthony and mr.x prior, though they have conveniently forgotten them.

 

[itlnstln]

Itnstln - I'm not getting into it with you or anyone else, but give it a rest already - stop feeding the flames and let's get on track to helping each other out, not wasting everyone's time with childish posts

It's just getting to the point where people are going to just leave EF or do something drastic like having members or even mods removed.... nobody wants that

Peace! (Really!)[/QUOTE]

 

[krishna]

ALL Aromatase inhibitor reduce aromatase activity in the brain. Especially when injected or distributed by silastic capsule directly into the brain.

Yes aromasin binds to the AR with similar affinity .2% of DHT. This only has any meaning if you have no androgens.

these things were already pointed out to anthony and mr.x prior, though they have conveniently forgotten them.

What about competitive inhibitors like a-dex and femera? It doesn't seem like they would have the same effect, but I know you have to watch out for a rebound with them.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

so now there have been 4 more votes, with no one posting.

so 17 negative impact votes compared to 4 posts. One of those by anon13-043-4 whatever member as thier first post.

this smear campaign is a bit tiring.

AIFM can cause rashes/allergies (like every topical and cosmetic), the data that AF has collected indicates that its about 1%, with perhaps 2-3 percent- having irritation that is managable by rotating and adding aloe after.

something that has never been disputed.

if it was 40% then why would AF continue selling it? that would constitute a huge finanacial loss for them. Even 10% return rate would be untenable.

 

[Mr.X]

if it was 40% then why would AF continue selling it? that would constitute a huge finanacial loss for them. Even 10% return rate would be untenable.

People don't always return products. Heck, I've bought stuff from the retail store that was broken before, like a CD player, never did return it. Assuming your "return" rate has anything to do with it, is wrong.

Poll results are clear:
Did you get a rash from AIFM?
YES 17 38.64%
NO 24 54.55%
No, but I got something else......what is it? 3 6.82%

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Interestingly, the person who suffered cognitive impairment from a transdermal AI said it was probably because AI's typically have a long(ish) active life in the body, and the sustained release provided by a transdermal, in his opinion, makes the assault on brain aromatase go on for way too long...and led (again, in his opinion) to the problems he suffered with his transdermal AI.

In the end, he influenced the removal of a transdermal AI product from the market due to his concerns.

Add to this story the idea that ATD has also been pulled from the market by more than one company, already.

I've produced a study in this thread suggesting that ATD is an anti-androgen!

Now add in the fact that people are getting rashes from this particular one.

Why is this discussion even going on? I'd think that the conclusion that most members here will reach is the logical one; don't buy anything with ATD, and certainly don't buy a transdermal AI, of any kind.

 

[Ulter]

Lyle Alzado thought he got brain cancer from steroids. Maybe they knew each other.

Aromasin has this same "anti-androgen" quallity. It's only a problem if you have NO ANDROGENS in you. It's .2% and of no consequence to someone who wasn't castrated.

The discussion is going on because you seem to overlook everything Macro schools you on. And then repeat yourself like you haven't seen it answered already.

Oh and BTW, by posting in your real name you're going to find out that you're liable for your posts. Just ask Patrick Arnold.

 

[i am what i am]

I haven't tried the product myself, so I can't speak for the quality or the integrity of the AF store. There is obvious conflicts in the higher powers to be. There seems to be no doubt that several members have received rashes severe enough to require immediate medical attention.

I know I have been here only a few months, but in those months I have witnessed many things. For a site so hell bent on not posting sources of anything, we do an excellent job at promoting the AF store as well as the AG-Guys. Yes, they have done a great service to the community here at EF, but I would be extremely upset if i purchased a product that jeopordized my health. I don't know Macro or Ulter, so I can't say anything negative about them. But Mr. X has been more than willing to help me out in all areas, and so, my loyalty will lie with him, as well as ItlnStln, who many may feel is outspoken, but shows compassion for all members and a willingness to put his reputation on the line to protect EF members.

Hidden agendas are everywhere, and its the sole purpose of a store to sell as many products as possible. Much money and time is spent into researching products and how users react to those products, so when something goes wrong with the product, recalling those products so more research can be done probably doesn't happen as much as we would like.

But it would be wrong for anyone to be banned because of their opinions. That would not sit well with me or anyother member.

 

[gabulldogs02]

I've been using it for a little over 2 weeks now and no rash at all. I've been applying on the forearms and inner part of my biceps.

 

[fortunatesun]

What purpose does this thread serve? Any poll of this type won't yield useful information. What we have instead is people who have earned our respect bickering in a self-indulgant manner. What happened to the need to control information responsibly? I say we use a brain trust of interested members on this board to review the available data and achieve a consensus of AIFM's worthiness. As AF's integrity is not an issue, the only outcome of this would be to demonstrate what so many accomplished individuals are doing here in the first place.

 

[nuevo laredo]

ALL Aromatase inhibitor reduce aromatase activity in the brain. Especially when injected or distributed by silastic capsule directly into the brain.

Yes aromasin binds to the AR with similar affinity .2% of DHT. This only has any meaning if you have no androgens.

these things were already pointed out to anthony and mr.x prior, though they have conveniently forgotten them.

Sorry to keep bumping this but...

When you mention injecting or silastic capsules, you are referring to the delivery method used in the animal studies, right?
As far as reduced cognitive ability, could this be an issue with any AI if taken in high enough quantities? Is there a tissue concentration issue to be considered with transdermal administration of any AI including AIFM?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

YES

YES- absolutely this is why leto causes sexual dysfunction even below treatment doses- imagine taking that amount for an extended period and not being on cycle- yes complete estrogen deprivation will have negative effects on cognition.

YES- though limiting aromatase in fat tissue is not really a bad thing. Tissue concentration of ATD and/or local aromatase suppresion may be an factor in allergy response. This is being looked at. Even though the percentage is small, reducing it even slightly is of course the goal.

 

[i am what i am]

This isn't going to go away is it? We might as well get some answers with evidence to substantiate the claims being made.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Sorry to keep bumping this but...

When you mention injecting or silastic capsules, you are referring to the delivery method used in the animal studies, right?
As far as reduced cognitive ability, could this be an issue with any AI if taken in high enough quantities? Is there a tissue concentration issue to be considered with transdermal administration of any AI including AIFM?

The man who actually suffered this blames the transdermal delivery method as being the factor that when combined with an AI caused his problem.

IT is his contention, and I think a well thought out one, that the sustained delivery and lack of peaks/vallies that 1x a day oral administration would provide.

Again, he thinks this is because he used a transdermal AI, not just an AI, which he'd had success with in the past.

 

[JohnnyWest]

The man who actually suffered this blames the transdermal delivery method as being the factor that when combined with an AI caused his problem.

IT is his contention, and I think a well thought out one, that the sustained delivery and lack of peaks/vallies that 1x a day oral administration would provide.

Again, he thinks this is because he used a transdermal AI, not just an AI, which he'd had success with in the past.

This whole debate has been interesting, but I think there is a problem with that guys' theory.

If i read correctly, he believes it was the sustained blood levels that the transdermal offers that caused his problems because of the lack of peaks and troughs in blood levels, so if this were the case, wouldn't armidex have the same brain aromatisation problems because its half life is approx 50 hours?
Or perhaps it wouldn't have the problem because it is not a suicidal aromatase inhibitor?

 

[Anthony Roberts]

This whole debate has been interesting, but I think there is a problem with that guys' theory.

If i read correctly, he believes it was the sustained blood levels that the transdermal offers that caused his problems because of the lack of peaks and troughs in blood levels, so if this were the case, wouldn't armidex have the same brain aromatisation problems because its half life is approx 50 hours?
Or perhaps it wouldn't have the problem because it is not a suicidal aromatase inhibitor?

No...because it still has the peak, the onset and then decline....transdermals provide basically a sustained release of the drug that's unwavering...so...follow this guy's reasoning here...the HUGE half life plus the HUGE sustained delivery...allows no time when there isn't a dose of AI constantly killing aromatase...and that becomes dangerous, in his opinion, because there's no "let up" as with an oral...it just has a huge halflife and a really long sustained time release = recipe for disaster. NOW add in that ATD can have anti androgenic effects? I'd avoid it like crazy...

 

[macrophage69alpha]

having actually spoken with triceptor and not just making things up. The extended use of high doses of any AI will have the same effect.

in triceptors case (the person that anthony does not actually care about but is trying to use his unfortunate situation to bolster his erroneous conclusions) he was using what he recconed to be 60mg per day DELIVERED of ATD. Thats 10-12 times the clinical suppression dose. He did this for 3-4 months without taking an AAS.

now it is anthony's contention that an individual taking a comparable amount of say letrozole (which would be more than 10mg per day) and not taking any AAS would not have similar problems.

since most guys on cycle get severe estrogen suppression with 2.5mg of letro ED, this assertion of his does not hold water.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

NOW add in that ATD can have anti androgenic effects? I'd avoid it like crazy...

then add to that list exemestane, which you seem to reccomend quite often, it has the same activity and binding affinity as ATD. Which is .2% of DHT. Its a non factor except in cell models and castrated animals. So in conditions that are androgen deprived where such weak binding would then become relevant.



btw- this has been explained to you over and over again anthony, one can only assume that your reposts of this erroneous information are intentional. Why exactly are you trying to mislead people?

 

[JohnnyWest]

Thanks for the reply both of you.

 

[MR. BMJ]

No...because it still has the peak, the onset and then decline....transdermals provide basically a sustained release of the drug that's unwavering...so...follow this guy's reasoning here...the HUGE half life plus the HUGE sustained delivery...allows no time when there isn't a dose of AI constantly killing aromatase...and that becomes dangerous, in his opinion, because there's no "let up" as with an oral...it just has a huge halflife and a really long sustained time release = recipe for disaster. NOW add in that ATD can have anti androgenic effects? I'd avoid it like crazy...

Anthony, can you please comment on the following stated by Macro:

"in triceptors case (the person that anthony does not actually care about but is trying to use his unfortunate situation to bolster his erroneous conclusions) he was using what he recconed to be 60mg per day DELIVERED of ATD. Thats 10-12 times the clinical suppression dose. He did this for 3-4 months without taking an AAS."

Is this correct? If so, how can he state any validity to a transdermal ATD product if it were taken 10-12 times the clinical suppression dose?

BMJ

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Triceptor did not make the statements that anthony attributes to him. He beleived that heavy transdermal use as opposed to oral use caused his problems. COMPARING TRANSDERMAL ATD vs. ORAL ATD (with its poor uptake and short half life). Triceptor was familiar with transdermal technology but not aromatase inhibitors. Which is how he ended up with problems. Transdermal ATD is going to have the SAME impact on aromatase as extended half life drugs like exemestane, arimidex and letrozole. At high doses without exogenous AAS there are going to be problems (even with exogenous AAS doses of that magnitude will cause problems)

Basically he would have encountered the same problems with a heavy oral dose of letro or exemestane, even arimidex. You cannot use heavy doses of any aromatase inhibitor even when taking AAS, taking such doses without AAS, its amazing that it took so long for him to have problems.

 

[MR. BMJ]

I think that the proposals to take away the AIFM product is complete and utter bullshit!!! Of all things to bitch about, I can't believe that this is a basis for argument at such a level pointed out here lately. I know people that have had skin sensitivity to Yohimburn, over the counter creams, other competitor's yohimbine products (Avant Labs), toothpaste, aloe vera lotion, sunscreens, body soaps, hair spray, MILK, eggs, peanuts, etc.....

This does not necessitate grounds for eliminating these products. Hell some people are sensitive to toilet paper when they wipe their asses. Maybe we should all throw a fit and petition to have this taken away too?

I know plenty of people, even some who are scared to post here at elite or any board for that matter, about liquid products giving upset stomachs, loss of taste, numbness of the tongue (for many hours on end), sore throats, etc.....Should this be grounds for taking AG guys off the board because some people are sensitive to the alcohols and solvents in their products?

NO! Hell no! Just like I am sticking up for AIFM, i'd do the same for ANY liquid 'supplement' out there. WHY? Because they work, and are an easy cheap way to obtain effective products....aka AG guys. We can't just walk over to Wal-Mart and buy this over-the-counter in many parts of the world....well, at least the USA (without a Rx of course). This is still underground marketing folks...just like AAS discussions that are brought on these boards pushing many alternative routes for underground and pharm grade products (ie...AAS).

Jesus, come on people! A skin rash? This is a steroid bodybuilding board, and every AAS has side effects. Every drug has side effects. Every supplement has side effects. To those steroids that accelerate hair loss, gyno, acne/backne, elevated liver enzymes, etc....to the people that are sensitive & genetically dispositioned to them, DOES this necessitate that we should ban talk of all these products from being discussed or used on Elite Fitness???? Thinks about it....we might as well close shop here. I'm sure all those people on HRT or with HIV/AIDS would be happy about that?

How about the handful of idiots out there who will not read the disclaimer on a liquid arimidex bottle and injects it into his body only to receive an abscess, which causes this person to go to the EMERGENCY ROOM? Seriously, if this were to happen, I can guarantee that I, as well as any knowledgeable person on this board, would NOT be blaming any research company for this mishap. And since Ulter/Macro and AG guys & Mr. X are the topic of discussion, I can guarantee that both Ulter and Macro would do the same, even though it is a competitor. It clearly mentions not to inject this stuff....BUT, and every body knows this, there ARE IDIOTS that do the opposite. They should not ruin it for the many people that enjoy or beneifit from using AG products.

Now, with that being said, the following has been ignored in regards to AIFM:

"Warnings: this product is an aromatase inhibitor, it suppresses oestrogen production; It can and will have androgenic side effects as well as the common side effects of oestrogen suppression. It may cause skin rash. If you develop a rash discontiue use and return the product for a refund."

Folks, it says it right there. This should not be ignored. It clearly states that a skin rash may be a side-effect of this product.

Guess what, you can get your monay back. Honostly, what more can be done???? Do you people who had a negative RxN to this stuff really care that much to spoil it for all the other people who DO NOT have a bad RxN from it, and who actually benefit from it tremendously? This stuff works big time people! Please do not try and ruin it for those of us that love its effects. Besides the skin rash there are no other people documenting any other types of side effects from it. None that aren't common with any other AI that is commonly used or PROMOTED on this board.

ACTION has taken place to better the formulation! The original testing formula had the Linalool taken out. I believe this has helped with some cases?

In fact, it needs to be stated, of the people who are complaining of rashes, which formulation that they are taking. Maybe those who are getting rashes are still using the original version before it was modified????? Could this be a possibility??? Of course, just like any topical formula, there WILL still be people sensitive to any product. If some of you people are expecting anything to be 100% side-effect free, good luck, you are gonna be wasting your time. Hell, water and vegetables these days cannot be trusted without somebody bitching that they got cancer from them.

This needs to be cleared up as well.......TO those people that asked for a refund, did you get your money back? I have seen Ulter many times on threads state that he was sorry for some peoples unfortunate skin RxN's, and referred them to get their money back. The man has offered to give you your money back...which means he will eat the cost. Did you do as he mentioned to do? Was he rude? Did you not get your money back? People, if you did not like the product due to rash problems, PLEASE do yourself a favor and get your money back. Geez, can this be stressed enough???

Why should he be slandered??? I have seen him (as well as Mr. X AND Macrophage69Alpha) help MANY people.

This isn't a slam, well maybe to a degree, but with much respect, to ItlnStln.......Bro, CHILL already with the drama. Everybody gets your point. Did you even try the product??? Ulter and Macro are good people bro. A skin rash isn't the end of the world and it definately isn't means to have a product "pulled" for those MANY of people who actually benefit from it. If it gives you a rash, get your damn money back. I really want to believe that you are doing this for the good of the board and its members, but I have a hard time believing this. It's cool that you want your voice heard, as should everybody's opinion's that are psted, but man......Am I correct that you have only been here since December of 2005? Am I seeing this correctly? Unless you used a previous handle on here before, you cannot possibly grasp many of the members roles and what some of them have done for the good of this board in a 3-month period!!!

That's all i'm gonna write in this post, but i'm gonna add another one after this showing my HONOST opinion of the AIFM product and how I reacted to it. IT will be a post that I put up awhile ago on a different board stating how I reacted to the product. This is also before all the drama that has now circulated around it here at Elite. It was posted at another board, which isn't exactly 'friends' with the higher up people of elite....I will refrain from posting the site out of respect for elite. Many will know which board to go to if they really want a reference of it.

BMJ

 

[MR. BMJ]

Well, since this is supposed to be a poll for AIFM, I will follow suit and add my thoughts. People can take this however they want. I'm gonna vote "no" since I can use it now without problems by using a different site of application. If people want to fuss about it and say that it should be a "YES," then fine. I don't really care. You will see my HONOST experience with this product. I'll let people decide for themselves whether or not it is something for them. I will add an update following afterward, as it was written awhile ago on another board....NOT AnabolicFitness.

BMJ
******************************************
Here it is:

I'm not a mod here, but have visited many sites for over 10 years. I am also a Mod at AF (Yes, Ulter's site). You can take my testimony however you want, and i'm not scared to put whatever reputation I have on the line (no pun intended).

I have been taking 1200-1400mg's of test propionate per week (***) for about 3 weeks. Usually even with prop at that dose, I would get bloated, even moreso since I am trying to bulk and carbs are a lot higher than normal (as well as other things ie...Na+ and fat). I am gonna add in some Anadrol here soon (pyrimid 50mg to 150mg, etc) as well.

I have been taking the AIFM aromatase inhibitor by AF with great results. I take 2 squirts in the morning and two squirts at night before I go to bed. So far, my bloatedness from bulking has not increased at all, in fact I probably wouldn't have any if I were to clean up my diet a little bit. I have been taking this stuff for about 10 days now. I really wasn't expecting it to be this effective. I cannot believe something like this is actually legal.

"I feel like I am on Deca...."

LOL...okay, that was a joke for all you old Buttplug vets out there who know what I am talking about...for anybody who is illiterate, I was just joking about the deca comment....

I AM gyno prone...due to many years of high dbol use with and without AI's and Nolvadex...yes it finally caught up with me. I can get sensitive nips with test as well. Usually, anytime I take 600mg of test I start getting itchy nips with maybe a small pea sized lump under each titty until I switch up my cycle. So far with TEST only, I have had NO problems with my current dosage, which normally I would.

THE ULTIMATE TEST: The ultimate test for me will be to take not only my test, but also dbol (stacked with the test) as well since usually for most, an AI AND Nolvadex are needed to prevent gyno symptoms (due to the strogenic nature of Dbol). After I get my Anadrol and take it for 6-7 weeks, I am gonna take a 2-3 week break from orals (still taking test though) and take some Tyler's Liver Detox and Milk thistle. After that I am starting my cycle of Highj dose test/dbol/NPP. I will keep everybody posted on how that goes, as well as my experience leading up to it.

Too be honost, I have grown 2.5 inches extra on my penis, but didn't want anybody to think.....okay, okay, I am joking again...lol. Yes that was a lie. Just trying to make yall laugh a little.

Really though, I DID have an allergic reaction when applying AIFM to my forearms. Really bad, and it lasted up to 2-3 hours after application. Itched like a SOB as well. That didn't really make me too happy at night either.

Problem solved....I have been putting it on the shin's of my legs and have had ZERO negative reactions. Just thought i'd mention this just in case somebody experienced similar reactions and was just gonna toss the bottle. It absorbs quickly as well, so when I put on my socks, it is not a factor. Also, one squirt is a very small amount, so it isn't like you are drowning yourself. In fact, I almost thought I had a defective pump at first because it was so little of an amount.

I hope this in no way makes it sound as if I am being bias towards a friends product, 'cause that is definately not the case. I guess I cannot really prove my honosty more than just giving an 'honost' testimony. I don't get benefits from this either. I don't even take the Mod benefit when ordering supplements form AF because I usually forget about it. I am just like everybody else in that I believe that 98% of supplements suck or are worthless and overpriced and hyped. To date the only products from AF I have used are Tyler's, Yohimburn, AIFM, and just recently Sesapure. These have all lived up to their hype. I haven't even tried Glucorell or Thermorexin/Levorex, etc....which are probably the most bought supp's they have.

Anyway, you can believe me or not, but I am a happy customer. When it comes to an AI product, I wouldn't fuck around because peoples 'tits' are on the line (as well as money obviously). I take this very serious, as should anybody.....gyno sucks. If I was gonna just hype a product for personal benefits to rip people off, it would not be this one.

BMJ
**************************************
I was then asked by another member the following:

"I notice you say you take that and Nolv- is this right?? Also I don't get bloat from Prop- Just trying to make sure I get it right. Also are you sayng this works better than A-dex or Letro??"

My Response:

a.) I am taking AIFM by itself. However, in the past I have always used an AI like Arimidex or Letrozole and keeped Nolvadex on the side as a safety measure. Now, with Dbol, I usually just run Nolva from the beginning to the end of the cycle with whatever AI I am also using at the time. For research reasons, I am not using Nolvadex at this time because I want to see how the AIFM does on its own with a large Test dosage. If needed, I will post up to let everybody know. When I take dbol here in a few months with Prop and NPP, I am gonna run the AIFM by itself with that cycle and see how it goes. If I need to add in Nolvadex, then I will. I'll post that so reader's can see.

b.) Not sure what you meant by the prop (you or me)? Just in case, I usually do not get much bloat from Test Prop at all unless I am over 1gm per week. I also get less gyno symptoms from it as well (compared to Enanthate or Cyp). However, I had a shitload on hand, so I am just taking it to save money, plus I have some Synovex on order as well. Regardless, I do get itchy nips and added bloat from even propionate above 1gm per week, and by now, I would be all bloated with nipple sensitivity (I am 3 weeks into my propionate at over 1gm). I started the AIFM about 1.5 weeks after starting my propionate.

c.) Usually with Arimidex, I would have to take at least 1mg per 750-1gm of test. Sometimes more if I were using other compounds in conjunction with my test (ie...dbol, Eq, etc). Now bear in mind, I have only been using the AIFM for close to 10 days, so you may want to read other testimonials from users that have been using it longer than myself. That being said, I think/feel thus far.........drum roll please............THE AIFM AT 2 SQUIRTS IN AM/PM IS EQUAL OR STRONGER THAN 1mg OF ARIMIDEX/d. I can easily say this, plus I am even dryer than when I am using Arimidex. Arimidex is awesome in weak cycles, but sort of sucks in heavy androgen cycles. I think the optimal dose for some people using Arimidex is at 2mg/d, which can be expensive depending on the route you buy it. Hope I don't get a lot of flack from people that have a vested interest in the sales of Arimidex....just reporting my honost experience here.

Letrozole: Letrozole is THE strongest AI I have ever taken, bar none. It is so damn strong that it cuts my sex drive way down if I use too much. This compound can be used with success with a little trial and error. I can usually take it EOD at half the usual dosage that some use and still get awesome results. Now, I believe that Aromasin is a better route, but more expensive. Also, Aromasin and AIFM are also Suicidal AI's, so they are a little different category. AIFM is more like Aromasin, but I have yet to use Aromasin due to cost factors. However, even Ulter will state this, Aromasin is probably the best AI (Holy Grail) of AI's available at this time. Sometimes the 'strongest' AI is not always the 'best' AI. If you have a cheap route for Aromasin, then you probably do not need AIFM. However, AIFM is cheap and legal and very effective, so everybody will need to do what best fits them.

So to answer whether or not it is stronger than Letrozole?...Probably not, but then if I am not getting any bloat or nipple sensitivity from AIFM, then there is probably no need to really compare. I think that Aromasin and AIFM are probably 'better' in the long run than letrozole though. I look at Letrozole as a last resort basically.

Again, i'll continue to report any changes or whatnot as I take this product. I think the important thing to maybe remember here is that whether or not people decide to use it, it is a good thing to have around from a legal standpoint to fall back upon.

Hope I didn't stray from your Q's and aswered them like you wanted.

BMJ

*****************************

UPDATE 03/18/06:

I have since been on Anadrol up to 150mg's/d. with no problems as well.

I have added it to the tops of my feet with no problems.

Therefore, YES, I did get a rash from applying it to my forearms (both outer and inner sides). However, NO, I did not get a rash since I have applied it to the shins of my legs and tops of my feet. I can actually apply it every time on my shins and not have a RxN.

Therefore, maybe as a suggestion For AIFM users, as well as Ulter/macro to add to the disclaimer....maybe something added will help....such as:

"Since skin sensitivity and rash may develop, users should apply a small amount on their skin to test whether or not any negative problems arise. It should be noted that if forearm sensitivity arises, the user may want to try the shins of their legs and tops of their feet to see if the same problem will present itself. Do not use a large amount for the first application of each site. If a problem arises at a certain site of application do not use again in the same area."

Maybe add that clean/sanitary skin is important as well.

I'm edumacated, but will admit that somebody with better english skills can write a better worded 'caution/disclaimer' than myself.

BMJ

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Triceptor did not make the statements that anthony attributes to him. He beleived that heavy transdermal use as opposed to oral use caused his problems. COMPARING TRANSDERMAL ATD vs. ORAL ATD (with its poor uptake and short half life). Triceptor was familiar with transdermal technology but not aromatase inhibitors. Which is how he ended up with problems. Transdermal ATD is going to have the SAME impact on aromatase as extended half life drugs like exemestane, arimidex and letrozole. At high doses without exogenous AAS there are going to be problems (even with exogenous AAS doses of that magnitude will cause problems)

Basically he would have encountered the same problems with a heavy oral dose of letro or exemestane, even arimidex. You cannot use heavy doses of any aromatase inhibitor even when taking AAS, taking such doses without AAS, its amazing that it took so long for him to have problems.

Triceptor certainly did, and he did so on the phone with me. IT is inconceivable that you would actually say otherwise. He's someone I've spoken to many times. The statement you are making is an absurdity, basically claiming one of my friends and I did not have a certain conversation that you have no knowledge of at all.

Why should he be slandered???

I suppose it's not very professional, but I'll offer up my personal feelings on why he ought to be slandered:

Because he did it to me.

In a series of now deleted posts, Ulter and Macro sought to defame me, and personally attacked everything about me (my career, my ahtletic abilities, etc...), and spend several posts slandering me, and editing my posts. Ultimately, editing my posts was not enough, and Macro banned me and took away several of my abilities here.

I am, from what I can see, the only published steroid author here, and not only am I working on something for the site, I also answer 100% of my e-mails and PMs as well as answering every single thread where I was specifically mentioned in any posts or the title. Every single one. I've chimed in for every thread where I was PM'ed a link. Every Single one.

But when I spoke out against AIFM, I was banned. For no other reason than speaking out against what I feel to be a poor product.Does banning me seem like a move that someone who is concerned with this board or the members would do?

I wrote a book on Anabolics, which is #3 in it's category on Amazon, Period.

And I'm here answering questions for free.
Am I the sort of person who needs to be banned? It EF better off w/o me?

I'd say that the members ought to ask themselves if banning me is good for them or the board, and in addition, if it's not, then why would Macro have banned me?

And if he does things which are not good for the board or the members, should the members patronize his buisness? And if he does, indeed, not do things for the benefit of the members instead of himself, is it a far leap to think that he's brought an unsafe and ineffective product to the market?

I think not. And I think banning me proved it. Fortunately, there are some mods here who actually do care, and are here for free. But he isn't one of them.

 

[drrman]

I think that the proposals to take away the AIFM product is complete and utter bullshit!!! Of all things to bitch about, I can't believe that this is a basis for argument at such a level pointed out here lately. I know people that have had skin sensitivity to Yohimburn, over the counter creams, other competitor's yohimbine products (Avant Labs), toothpaste, aloe vera lotion, sunscreens, body soaps, hair spray, MILK, eggs, peanuts, etc.....

This does not necessitate grounds for eliminating these products. Hell some people are sensitive to toilet paper when they wipe their asses. Maybe we should all throw a fit and petition to have this taken away too?

I know plenty of people, even some who are scared to post here at elite or any board for that matter, about liquid products giving upset stomachs, loss of taste, numbness of the tongue (for many hours on end), sore throats, etc.....Should this be grounds for taking AG guys off the board because some people are sensitive to the alcohols and solvents in their products?

NO! Hell no! Just like I am sticking up for AIFM, i'd do the same for ANY liquid 'supplement' out there. WHY? Because they work, and are an easy cheap way to obtain effective products....aka AG guys. We can't just walk over to Wal-Mart and buy this over-the-counter in many parts of the world....well, at least the USA (without a Rx of course). This is still underground marketing folks...just like AAS discussions that are brought on these boards pushing many alternative routes for underground and pharm grade products (ie...AAS).

Jesus, come on people! A skin rash? This is a steroid bodybuilding board, and every AAS has side effects. Every drug has side effects. Every supplement has side effects. To those steroids that accelerate hair loss, gyno, acne/backne, elevated liver enzymes, etc....to the people that are sensitive & genetically dispositioned to them, DOES this necessitate that we should ban talk of all these products from being discussed or used on Elite Fitness???? Thinks about it....we might as well close shop here. I'm sure all those people on HRT or with HIV/AIDS would be happy about that?

How about the handful of idiots out there who will not read the disclaimer on a liquid arimidex bottle and injects it into his body only to receive an abscess, which causes this person to go to the EMERGENCY ROOM? Seriously, if this were to happen, I can guarantee that I, as well as any knowledgeable person on this board, would NOT be blaming any research company for this mishap. And since Ulter/Macro and AG guys & Mr. X are the topic of discussion, I can guarantee that both Ulter and Macro would do the same, even though it is a competitor. It clearly mentions not to inject this stuff....BUT, and every body knows this, there ARE IDIOTS that do the opposite. They should not ruin it for the many people that enjoy or beneifit from using AG products.

Now, with that being said, the following has been ignored in regards to AIFM:

"Warnings: this product is an aromatase inhibitor, it suppresses oestrogen production; It can and will have androgenic side effects as well as the common side effects of oestrogen suppression. It may cause skin rash. If you develop a rash discontiue use and return the product for a refund."

Folks, it says it right there. This should not be ignored. It clearly states that a skin rash may be a side-effect of this product.

Guess what, you can get your monay back. Honostly, what more can be done???? Do you people who had a negative RxN to this stuff really care that much to spoil it for all the other people who DO NOT have a bad RxN from it, and who actually benefit from it tremendously? This stuff works big time people! Please do not try and ruin it for those of us that love its effects. Besides the skin rash there are no other people documenting any other types of side effects from it. None that aren't common with any other AI that is commonly used or PROMOTED on this board.

ACTION has taken place to better the formulation! The original testing formula had the Linalool taken out. I believe this has helped with some cases?

In fact, it needs to be stated, of the people who are complaining of rashes, which formulation that they are taking. Maybe those who are getting rashes are still using the original version before it was modified????? Could this be a possibility??? Of course, just like any topical formula, there WILL still be people sensitive to any product. If some of you people are expecting anything to be 100% side-effect free, good luck, you are gonna be wasting your time. Hell, water and vegetables these days cannot be trusted without somebody bitching that they got cancer from them.

This needs to be cleared up as well.......TO those people that asked for a refund, did you get your money back? I have seen Ulter many times on threads state that he was sorry for some peoples unfortunate skin RxN's, and referred them to get their money back. The man has offered to give you your money back...which means he will eat the cost. Did you do as he mentioned to do? Was he rude? Did you not get your money back? People, if you did not like the product due to rash problems, PLEASE do yourself a favor and get your money back. Geez, can this be stressed enough???

Why should he be slandered??? I have seen him (as well as Mr. X AND Macrophage69Alpha) help MANY people.

This isn't a slam, well maybe to a degree, but with much respect, to ItlnStln.......Bro, CHILL already with the drama. Everybody gets your point. Did you even try the product??? Ulter and Macro are good people bro. A skin rash isn't the end of the world and it definately isn't means to have a product "pulled" for those MANY of people who actually benefit from it. If it gives you a rash, get your damn money back. I really want to believe that you are doing this for the good of the board and its members, but I have a hard time believing this. It's cool that you want your voice heard, as should everybody's opinion's that are psted, but man......Am I correct that you have only been here since December of 2005? Am I seeing this correctly? Unless you used a previous handle on here before, you cannot possibly grasp many of the members roles and what some of them have done for the good of this board in a 3-month period!!!

That's all i'm gonna write in this post, but i'm gonna add another one after this showing my HONOST opinion of the AIFM product and how I reacted to it. IT will be a post that I put up awhile ago on a different board stating how I reacted to the product. This is also before all the drama that has now circulated around it here at Elite. It was posted at another board, which isn't exactly 'friends' with the higher up people of elite....I will refrain from posting the site out of respect for elite. Many will know which board to go to if they really want a reference of it.

BMJ

Probably the best post on this entire thread....great points.......

 

[Ulter]

Same bullshit different day Anthony. And your ego is hilarious. Before you yanked the contents of your book off the boards and Nandi your life's only accomplishment was what? Chemist? Scientist? Researcher? Any Science degrees? No, a professional rugby player. Those are your credentials for this book. And you're attacking Macro who holds 3 degrees including a PhD? Wow, put a guys name on a book and he's a genius, never mind who actually wrote it.

You weren't SUSPENDED for speaking out against AIFM. You were SUSPENDED for name calling and the WAY you spoke out. The posts went from civil to 3rd grade and were deleted. Just like Mr X does to those who do that to him. Mods can give a member a "time out" as George calls it, you got one, get over it.

The book that has your name as a contributor is number #3 in it's category? Out of how many?
It's rank is #71,311 Translation: It's barely moving
The contents of this book were mostly taken from the AS boards or Nandi.
Do the people here NEED Anthony Roberts? No, there is nothing revolutionary in your book that isn't already here or at Nandi's board. You want to answer posts? Great, thanks for contributing. But you haven't been on this board in years and we all managed to get along fine. Which of course shows what a total hypocrite you are saying Macro isn't here for free. Neither are you.
Macro's contributed more to this community over the last 6 years than you and your plagiarized book will ever contribute.

Defaming you? No, I know who you are. I know where you got your book contents. I know you have not credentials what so ever. That's not defaming you. It's telling it like it is.

 

[brooklynheight]

Probably the best post on this entire thread....great points.......

cosign

 

[needtogetaas]

wow you people babble on way to much.

 

[MR. BMJ]

"Triceptor certainly did, and he did so on the phone with me. IT is inconceivable that you would actually say otherwise. He's someone I've spoken to many times. The statement you are making is an absurdity, basically claiming one of my friends and I did not have a certain conversation that you have no knowledge of at all."

Thanks for replying Anthony. However, you still did not reply to the question I asked, and the question why this AIFM/topical ATD thread is up. Can you PLEASE answer or comment on the following:

""in triceptors case (the person that anthony does not actually care about but is trying to use his unfortunate situation to bolster his erroneous conclusions) he was using what he recconed to be 60mg per day DELIVERED of ATD. Thats 10-12 times the clinical suppression dose. He did this for 3-4 months without taking an AAS."

Anthony, is this true or not? If it is, then people need to take triceptors experience with a grain of salt as taking anything at such a large dose will probably have a negative effect.




"I suppose it's not very professional, but I'll offer up my personal feelings on why he ought to be slandered: Because he did it to me."

"In a series of now deleted posts, Ulter and Macro sought to defame me, and personally attacked everything about me (my career, my ahtletic abilities, etc...), and spend several posts slandering me, and editing my posts. Ultimately, editing my posts was not enough, and Macro banned me and took away several of my abilities here."

If you can put up a separate post that will debate your side of the topical ATD case, then I think that would be cool. Have somebody monitor it, an honost moderator (Is there any these days?...lol, that was a joke.). Refrain from bad-mouthing (both sides included). Have a straight up debate. The second you feel it has been modified, state so. Have the moderators post up what has been deleted. After each of your posts, save the original so that it will be on file. If it has modified, post or have somebody post what was really stated. I think that if this can be set-up fairly for both sides of the debate, it will help out tremendously for the board.

In light of Ulter, maybe you guys are not the best of friends lately, but he has given praise to you on this site many of times. So, aside from the current AIFM bickering, you cannot totally state he hasn't stated anything good about you.




"I am, from what I can see, the only published steroid author here, and not only am I working on something for the site, I also answer 100% of my e-mails and PMs as well as answering every single thread where I was specifically mentioned in any posts or the title. Every single one. I've chimed in for every thread where I was PM'ed a link. Every Single one."

That is kind of arrogant, just because you are NOW an author. I think every body is thankful that you are 'going out of your way' to help others. I really do not think that is a debate. You are an asset to this board. However, I know plenty of non-authors here that have helped many people. You have stated that you have dropped everything to put forth your new career, you have to expect that you will be having to answer a lot of these types of questions. However, you were not posting on this board very much before your book came out. Are you ONLY here now to get your name out in hopes to sale more of your book copies. Elite is a very large site, and it can generate anybody in the BB and fitness industry a lot of money. That is not a bad thing. I want you to make your money. I have a ton of respect for anybody that will put his name and reputation on the line for our lifestyle and for the greater health of the public.





"But when I spoke out against AIFM, I was banned. For no other reason than speaking out against what I feel to be a poor product.Does banning me seem like a move that someone who is concerned with this board or the members would do?"

No, you are correct. Nobody should be banned for what you are stating, if in fact this is the case. However, you have to expect that posts will be deleted or removed or edited if bad mouthing is involved no matter who is involved. I'm not saying you are not getting the short-end of the stick, but it will happen. You know this yourself as a long time board member both here and at BB4life, etc. I've seen posts about AG guys get deleted, as well as other board sponsors. Nobody is gonna believe anybody when it comes to this "Yes you did"...."No I didn't"...."Yes you did"......"No I didn't" responses. This needs to be dropped unless there is anyway to totally prove anything. Until then, even by speaking up for yourself, people are not gonna know who to believe unless actual proof can be brought out in the open. Then in the meantime, negative opinions are gonna form about all parties and there will obviously be a dividence of the board members, which is not cool. It's already happening.





"I wrote a book on Anabolics, which is #3 in it's category on Amazon, Period."
And I'm here answering questions for free.
Am I the sort of person who needs to be banned? It EF better off w/o me?"

You know that movie "Good Will Hunting" where the professor walks into the janitorial office and his student side-kick tries to get cocky with the maintenance guys? I can't remember word for word what is mentioned, but you will know the scene if you (or anybody) has watched the movie. The maintenance guys do not really care of the prestige of the professor, as they know that their job is just as important to the school. You totally reminded me of that scene bro. I know plenty of non-authors who have contributed at this board and gave out information for FREE as well. You are no more special than they are. In fact, people like Cockdezl, Wilson6, MS/retropump, and many more, etc....who all have/had very respectible credentials were posting up here for free and debunking shit for years from people that thought too much of themselves (and who brought upon incorrect opinions and research). It isn't the reputation of an author that makes this board a better place, it is the information that comes forth from its users that makes the world turn here. Add in the Mods who help things stay in line, and everything works pretty damn well. This place doesn't need another cocky writer (ie Nelson) to make it work optimally. I hope with all your successes that you never forget this. Again, you are an asset to this board, and everybody is thankful that you are helping them. I'm sure that your book is a good write up, especially if it has a lot of Karl's work involved. I think Big Cat's book, when it comes out, will also be a HUGE benefit to our readers.





"I'd say that the members ought to ask themselves if banning me is good for them or the board, and in addition, if it's not, then why would Macro have banned me?"

Again, you ARE an asset to this board. No you should not be 'permanently banned.'





"And if he does things which are not good for the board or the members, should the members patronize his buisness? And if he does, indeed, not do things for the benefit of the members instead of himself, is it a far leap to think that he's brought an unsafe and ineffective product to the market?

I think not. And I think banning me proved it. Fortunately, there are some mods here who actually do care, and are here for free. But he isn't one of them."

Again, nobody should be banned or patronized for speaking the truth with non-derogatory debates or research. However, there has to be more evidence out there for members to see outside of the "He said....She said" crap that is going on lately. The only thing that will completely solve this is to start a brand new thread and just have some honost debating. A thread where neither party will be involved with messing with the thread. If this can somehow be woked out, then that is what needs to be done. I'm sure that since both parties claim to do what they do for the good of the board and its members, that this can be achievable???? Can somebody maybe try to see if this can be worked out??? This is what really needs to be done in regards to settling the debate.

I do want to mention one thing. As with any product, if it is around awhile, and if it passes the test of time and is still popular and being bought years down the road by many people, how can it not be an effective product??? As time goes on, a product will stay alive by its sales. If a product is not effective, then it will no longer benefit the party selling it nor the public/consumer. If AIFM turns out to be a crappy product, then we all know that nobody will be buying it. This happens with every new supplement that hits the scenes (ie....HMB, chrysin, etc).

BMJ

 

[itlnstln]

Jesus, come on people! A skin rash? This is a steroid bodybuilding board, and every AAS has side effects. Every drug has side effects. Every supplement has side effects. To those steroids that accelerate hair loss, gyno, acne/backne, elevated liver enzymes, etc....to the people that are sensitive & genetically dispositioned to them, DOES this necessitate that we should ban talk of all these products from being discussed or used on Elite Fitness???? Thinks about it....we might as well close shop here. I'm sure all those people on HRT or with HIV/AIDS would be happy about that?BMJ

Here's the thing - we all know the side from AAS - and we "expect" them

But a product that (at most) states that it may cause irritation or a rash - when in many cases it cause BLISTERS and a few good bro's to go to the emergency room - something needs to be re-evaluated.

Please don't "cheapen" this board by belittling these cases or patronizing AAS users with your comaprisons.

And as far as how new I am - it didn't take long for me to bring to the attention that 40% of customers have developed a rash. - fact

When you see a warning on a generic skin creame with the same warning as these guys - they are literally dealing with a 1-3% bad reaction to their product - so to compare AIFM to everything else is just smoke-and-mirrors

Thanks B.J.

 

[kbrkbr]

This thread saddens me.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

And as far as how new I am - it didn't take long for me to bring to the attention that 40% of customers have developed a rash. - fact

take a step back and think about this: try to be objective.

you have four or five people posting that they had an allergic reaction, one of which was anon (a single post, just registered), you have 21 votes.

Does that seem like perhaps maybe there are people voting that have not even tried AIFM?

you dont have to accept that, but just consider it.

Since you mention a 1-3% allergy range, whether you beleive it or not based on the data collected by AF, it falls in that range. With people that are unable to use it at 1%, with that 2-3% that have to rotate and do things like apply aloe.

You dont have to believe that. But at least consider it as well.

Just basic economics if 40% of people got a rash, AF would lose money trying to sell it, even if less than half of those asked for a refund.

 

[jumpshot]

Wow I had a great night last night! went to a blockparty with 2 Irish bars and came home to rail my little girlie for a couple hours!

ANybody else do something besides sit on their ass trolling this fucking thread?

 

[kbrkbr]

I think the bottom line is this: Anyone who thinks that Ulter or Macro would knowingly promote a dangerous product is either,

1. ignoring the long history of contributions and knowledge they've made to this board, or

2. has a separate, more nefarious, agenda, or

3. is utterly deluded.

If the AF store -- of which I am not a customer because I tend to make my own supplements -- had a history of pushing bunk products, then I think all this bogus outrage would be justified. But as far as I know, this is the very first time one of their gems hasn't been met with wild acclaim.

For chrissakes, they're offering complete refunds. What more do you crybabies want?

 

[itlnstln]

Wow I had a great night last night! went to a blockparty with 2 Irish bars and came home to rail my little girlie for a couple hours!

ANybody else do something besides sit on their ass trolling this fucking thread?

yeah - I grew up - how bout' you - seriously - how old are you???

No flame - 18,19?

 

[itlnstln]

For chrissakes, they're offering complete refunds. What more do you crybabies want?

i can't speak for anyojne else - but I am NO crybaby.

Back off and work your way into the thread you mad-scientist

 

[neverenuf]

i can't speak for anyojne else - but I am NO crybaby.

Back off and wrok your way into the thread you mad-scientist

get em stallion...

 

[itlnstln]

take a step back and think about this: try to be objective.

you have four or five people posting that they had an allergic reaction, one of which was anon (a single post, just registered), you have 21 votes.

Does that seem like perhaps maybe there are people voting that have not even tried AIFM?

you dont have to accept that, but just consider it.

Since you mention a 1-3% allergy range, whether you beleive it or not based on the data collected by AF, it falls in that range. With people that are unable to use it at 1%, with that 2-3% that have to rotate and do things like apply aloe.

You dont have to believe that. But at least consider it as well.

Just basic economics if 40% of people got a rash, AF would lose money trying to sell it, even if less than half of those asked for a refund.

1-3 is what "I" said - you said 1% and the poll doesn't lie.
Sure , there may be people voting who have never tried it, but they are voting both ways.

y guess would be that AT LEAST 10% of you customers have had a serious - blister-like reation to it...............almost everyone has gotten SOME sort of rash.

I ordered some a while back - but never used it - I sent it off to a family member at MA General to have it tested and see if it should even be "allowed" to be sold for public use.

 

[jumpshot]

yeah - I grew up - how bout' you - seriously - how old are you???

No flame - 18,19?

33. You never cease to insult. You don't have to be 18 to go to a party and fuck. I'm sick of your petty insults. Stay off my posts.

No flame? How else should that be taken? You are the secondary cause of all the drama on this board lately, and we're all worse off for it.

 

[itlnstln]

33. You never cease to insult. You don't have to be 18 to go to a party and fuck. I'm sick of your petty insults. Stay off my posts.

No flame? How else should that be taken? You are the secondary cause of all the drama on this board lately, and we're all worse off for it.

Are you gonna flame me and them tell me we're cool with "green" later?

Stick to your guns - you don't like me - get over it, cause I am.

 

[neverenuf]

33. You never cease to insult. You don't have to be 18 to go to a party and fuck. I'm sick of your petty insults. Stay off my posts.

No flame? How else should that be taken? You are the secondary cause of all the drama on this board lately, and we're all worse off for it.

gotta disagree...im not worse off for anything IS has posted...he raises valid points...perhaps you dont like the way he does...so dont view the thread...

 

[jumpshot]

Are you gonna flame me and them tell me we're cool with "green" later?

Stick to your guns - you don't like me - get over it, cause I am.

Bro you're lost. You flamed me then sent me pm's saying we're cool. What the fuck is wrong with you.

I never sent you green. I don't like you. I'm "sticking to my guns"

I posted in both these fucked up threads trying to lighten the mood and both posts you flamed. It's not about you, you jackass.

 

[jumpshot]

gotta disagree...im not worse off for anything IS has posted...he raises valid points...perhaps you dont like the way he does...so dont view the thread...

I don't care about the issues. I care about his unprovoked personal attacks on me.

Search our posts and you'll see.

 

[neverenuf]

Lyle Alzado thought he got brain cancer from steroids. Maybe they knew each other.

Aromasin has this same "anti-androgen" quallity. It's only a problem if you have NO ANDROGENS in you. It's .2% and of no consequence to someone who wasn't castrated.

The discussion is going on because you seem to overlook everything Macro schools you on. And then repeat yourself like you haven't seen it answered already.

Oh and BTW, by posting in your real name you're going to find out that you're liable for your posts. Just ask Patrick Arnold.

what the hell does posting in your own name make anyone more liable for on this board...it is for open discussion... not intimidation...

 

[neverenuf]

I don't care about the issues. I care about his unprovoked personal attacks on me.

Search our posts and you'll see.

sorry bro..i read back and didnt see it...@ 33 was well married with a kid not out partying...and my ass was well in bed by the time you got home...also jackass seems a little insulting...this whole thread has gotten way out of control...but its sort of like a train wreck...you just gotta look.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

[/COLOR]
what the hell does posting in your own name make anyone more liable for on this board...

this was for anthony's benefit. When you post under your own name you assume a much greater liability for what you post. Because anthony is an author, thus an expert (even if it is just self proclaimed), it increases his liability. This includes reccomendations, slander, medical advice, legal advice, etc...

patrick arnolds statements on the internet have and are being used against him in his case (balco related as the US distributor of the "clear"- he is the "clearman" reffered to in the balco case)- he is the one that got the chinese to synthesize THG and several other untested for, by the IOC, progestenic steroids.

 

[jumpshot]

sorry bro..i read back and didnt see it...@ 33 was well married with a kid not out partying...and my ass was well in bed by the time you got home...also jackass seems a little insulting...this whole thread has gotten way out of control...but its sort of like a train wreck...you just gotta look.

well, not to defend my lifestyle but here in Hawaii people socialize, alot. It's one big community. There isn't 1 day goes by you can't find a bbq on a beach with braddahs playing ukulele and drinking beers.

It's not like a blockparty in some mainland metropolitan city.

Plus my girl went with me, but I don't have kids

Aloha

 

[neverenuf]

[/COLOR]
what the hell does posting in your own name make anyone more liable for on this board...it is for open discussion... not intimidation...

this was my entire post

it shouldnt apply to him or anyone else here...and regardless of his stature outside this forum...he is a contributing member...sorry guys seems like intimidation to me...and thats wrong...and i dont have any ulterior motives period...just dont care for the tone of things...

 

[neverenuf]

this was my entire post

it shouldnt apply to him or anyone else here...and regardless of his stature outside this forum...he is a contributing member...sorry guys seems like intimidation to me...and thats wrong...and i dont have any ulterior motives period...just dont care for the tone of things...

sorry ladies have to go to bed, work in the morning! will be happy to pick it up in the morning...

 

[ItalianMuscle27]

This might be a dumb question, but what is AIFM?? I have no clue..

 

[macrophage69alpha]

you may or may not like it, but posting under his own name increases his liability. He is not just a contributing member, he is here to promote his book. He is here for a lot of reasons, but will not go into that again.

this is not a forum issue, its a legal issue. Ulter may have mentioned it because he beleived that anthony was engaging in libelous activity.

it does not matter whether anthony posts something here or on any forum, by posting under his name (or even just a nom de plume- to which he can be legally tied) it increases his liability.

 

[drrman]

This might be a dumb question, but what is AIFM?? I have no clue..

LOL, an anti-estrogen product.......aromatose inhibiter for men i believe

 

[itlnstln]

I don't care about the issues. I care about his unprovoked personal attacks on me.

Search our posts and you'll see.

no one attacked "you" - we were talingk about the issues.....until you came slong.

Punk

If you have any other problems PM me, and we'll settle it like men

 

[MR. BMJ]

"Here's the thing - we all know the side from AAS - and we "expect" them

But a product that (at most) states that it may cause irritation or a rash - when in many cases it cause BLISTERS and a few good bro's to go to the emergency room - something needs to be re-evaluated."

Do you even know what you are writing?

You state that we can "expect" sides from AAS, but are not smart enough to read that a product may cause a rash when the disclaimer states that it may occur?....or "blisters" like you mention?

Maybe you of all people should follow your own advice???

In this thread:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465245&page=4

You stated that your friend went to the hospital by using Aleve.

Then, not too long after that, in the following thread:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466031

You posted using Aleve for your arm and stating that it worked for you. With your viewpoint of AIFM, it makes you a hypocrit. Why did you use a product that caused severe and life threatening health issues to your friend? Are you petitioning to have Aleve 'pulled' from the shelves...oh wait, that one is okay because you say so......YEAH RIGHT!

The fact that you have overlooked is that ACTION HAS taken place since the original version of AIFM came out. The first was taking out the Linalool. Some bro's have reported that it has helped them. Then Ulter went on to state that it has been modified even further after that. Again, you are making claims to which formulation? It appears that some of the newer formulations ARE helping. Some of these users that have reported receiving "blisters" (which doesn't appear to be many) are not even stepping up to such lengths to have it pulled that you are suggesting. This is coming from you, a person that never even tried it.


"Please don't "cheapen" this board by belittling these cases or patronizing AAS users with your comaprisons."

Yeah, you have it all figured out don't you. The 11 years that I have been a member at Elite has been to "belittle, cheapen and patronize" the site and its members. Gee, you'd think after 11 years of the crap you just alluded that I do, that i'd be at least kicked off by now, or not using the same name that I have used since 1996. I can guarantee that I have put forth more info and forgot more info than you will ever gather or share. Looking at your handle in the posts you have put up, shows me you do not know very much. You have stated that you were hurt in a car accident 4, 5, 6 years ago in different posts, and in the last 3 months you have went from not even knowing how to put together a simple Test/Eq/Dbol cycle, asking whether or not to shoot or drink winny, no understanding of how to diet, talking about and posting mindless threads about coke, causing drama, etc...........to throwing out info like you are an expert and belittling a product that you have never even tried. But wait, Aleve is okay, even though YOUR friend almost died. You have stated taking Clen, and some people cannot handle the sides to that compound, should I petition to have AG guys 'pull' that from their list. NO! I shouldn't. I could make a case for that one, but I will never do that because others react well to it. Look at a disclaimer on Clen and compare it to a measly skin rash or "blisters" and tell me which is worse on a person? This is coming from a person that has used Clen many times, and I still wouldn't ask to have it removed by those who are less educated about it. We are here to educate people on the dangers of certain products the best we can so others do not get hurt, but that does not mean we should hold there hand and do all the work for them. I bet before it is over, the AIFM formulation will eventually get modified to further please its users and then everybody will laugh at this mindless crap you have posted on the product. Dude, it's only been out maybe 3 months. Instead of screaming to have it pulled, just post your experience so modifications can be made....oh but wait, you don't have any experience.


"And as far as how new I am - it didn't take long for me to bring to the attention that 40% of customers have developed a rash. - fact"

You stated being on here 4-6 years ago, what was your handle name? Yes, In case you are wondering, I would like to do a search under your name. This shouldn't be a problem if you were a good-hearted member that provided quality information, should it? Hell maybe i'll learn a thing or two from ya.

Again ol' smart one, you are throwing the terms "rash" and "blisters" around sloppy. The way I am seeing it is that 'MAYBE' a few people developed blisters. "rash" problems appear to be a little higher, but it is not clear which formulations that they used. Your math is off. I'll let the post that Macro posted after yours speak for itself.



"When you see a warning on a generic skin creame with the same warning as these guys - they are literally dealing with a 1-3% bad reaction to their product - so to compare AIFM to everything else is just smoke-and-mirrors"

I'm sure studies or papers are out there to support your claim? I'd be interested in seeing this since you seem so sure of yourself. This doesn't account those people that DO NOT get a full refund back from these companys' products skin problems. Therefore, if no refund is offered, do they really know how many dissatisfied people there are? Mr. X pointed out that he never returns products that offer a refund. How many unaccounted people like him are there in regards to the products that you speak of that have skin irritation?

You can hold Macro accountable to the 1% claim that he posted all you want. Yes, it will probably be higher. Who cares? I can guarantee that it is nowhere near the 40% that you keep throwing out there though. If there were that many dissatisfied customers, the product would not be worth it to market. They wouldn't even put forth the effort. It will fade away just like the HMB/Chrysin threads (Weren't you using Betagen from EAS when you started posting here in December?.....now there is a winner product if I ever did see one...lol....nothing like getting butt-raped and paying for overpriced creatine and HMB ). So hold onto that arguement because it is the only thing you have in your favor, just make sure that it is correct though....1+1=2.

"Thanks B.J."

Are you telling me thanks and asking for a Blow Job at the same time? Well thanks but no thanks. I don't do favors for guys or let guys suck on my peepee. I have a 5' Latina that calls it hers anyway, so I get all that I want.

THANKS!

MR. BMJ


[/QUOTE]

 

[jumpshot]

no one attacked "you" - we were talingk about the issues.....until you came slong.

Punk

If you have any other problems PM me, and we'll settle it like men

No more namecalling from me, but you really are polluting this board.

 

[itlnstln]

"Here's the thing - we all know the side from AAS - and we "expect" them

But a product that (at most) states that it may cause irritation or a rash - when in many cases it cause BLISTERS and a few good bro's to go to the emergency room - something needs to be re-evaluated."

Do you even know what you are writing?

You state that we can "expect" sides from AAS, but are not smart enough to read that a product may cause a rash when the disclaimer states that it may occur?....or "blisters" like you mention?

Maybe you of all people should follow your own advice???

In this thread:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465245&page=4

You stated that your friend went to the hospital by using Aleve.

Then, not too long after that, in the following thread:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466031

You posted using Aleve for your arm and stating that it worked for you. With your viewpoint of AIFM, it makes you a hypocrit. Why did you use a product that caused severe and life threatening health issues to your friend? Are you petitioning to have Aleve 'pulled' from the shelves...oh wait, that one is okay because you say so......YEAH RIGHT!

The fact that you have overlooked is that ACTION HAS taken place since the original version of AIFM came out. The first was taking out the Linalool. Some bro's have reported that it has helped them. Then Ulter went on to state that it has been modified even further after that. Again, you are making claims to which formulation? It appears that some of the newer formulations ARE helping. Some of these users that have reported receiving "blisters" (which doesn't appear to be many) are not even stepping up to such lengths to have it pulled that you are suggesting. This is coming from you, a person that never even tried it.


"Please don't "cheapen" this board by belittling these cases or patronizing AAS users with your comaprisons."

Yeah, you have it all figured out don't you. The 11 years that I have been a member at Elite has been to "belittle, cheapen and patronize" the site and its members. Gee, you'd think after 11 years of the crap you just alluded that I do, that i'd be at least kicked off by now, or not using the same name that I have used since 1996. I can guarantee that I have put forth more info and forgot more info than you will ever gather or share. Looking at your handle in the posts you have put up, shows me you do not know very much. You have stated that you were hurt in a car accident 4, 5, 6 years ago in different posts, and in the last 3 months you have went from not even knowing how to put together a simple Test/Eq/Dbol cycle, asking whether or not to shoot or drink winny, no understanding of how to diet, talking about and posting mindless threads about coke, causing drama, etc...........to throwing out info like you are an expert and belittling a product that you have never even tried. But wait, Aleve is okay, even though YOUR friend almost died. You have stated taking Clen, and some people cannot handle the sides to that compound, should I petition to have AG guys 'pull' that from their list. NO! I shouldn't. I could make a case for that one, but I will never do that because others react well to it. Look at a disclaimer on Clen and compare it to a measly skin rash or "blisters" and tell me which is worse on a person? This is coming from a person that has used Clen many times, and I still wouldn't ask to have it removed by those who are less educated about it. We are here to educate people on the dangers of certain products the best we can so others do not get hurt, but that does not mean we should hold there hand and do all the work for them. I bet before it is over, the AIFM formulation will eventually get modified to further please its users and then everybody will laugh at this mindless crap you have posted on the product. Dude, it's only been out maybe 3 months. Instead of screaming to have it pulled, just post your experience so modifications can be made....oh but wait, you don't have any experience.


"And as far as how new I am - it didn't take long for me to bring to the attention that 40% of customers have developed a rash. - fact"

You stated being on here 4-6 years ago, what was your handle name? Yes, In case you are wondering, I would like to do a search under your name. This shouldn't be a problem if you were a good-hearted member that provided quality information, should it? Hell maybe i'll learn a thing or two from ya.

Again ol' smart one, you are throwing the terms "rash" and "blisters" around sloppy. The way I am seeing it is that 'MAYBE' a few people developed blisters. "rash" problems appear to be a little higher, but it is not clear which formulations that they used. Your math is off. I'll let the post that Macro posted after yours speak for itself.



"When you see a warning on a generic skin creame with the same warning as these guys - they are literally dealing with a 1-3% bad reaction to their product - so to compare AIFM to everything else is just smoke-and-mirrors"

I'm sure studies or papers are out there to support your claim? I'd be interested in seeing this since you seem so sure of yourself. This doesn't account those people that DO NOT get a full refund back from these companys' products skin problems. Therefore, if no refund is offered, do they really know how many dissatisfied people there are? Mr. X pointed out that he never returns products that offer a refund. How many unaccounted people like him are there in regards to the products that you speak of that have skin irritation?

You can hold Macro accountable to the 1% claim that he posted all you want. Yes, it will probably be higher. Who cares? I can guarantee that it is nowhere near the 40% that you keep throwing out there though. If there were that many dissatisfied customers, the product would not be worth it to market. They wouldn't even put forth the effort. It will fade away just like the HMB/Chrysin threads (Weren't you using Betagen from EAS when you started posting here in December?.....now there is a winner product if I ever did see one...lol....nothing like getting butt-raped and paying for overpriced creatine and HMB ). So hold onto that arguement because it is the only thing you have in your favor, just make sure that it is correct though....1+1=2.

"Thanks B.J."

Are you telling me thanks and asking for a Blow Job at the same time? Well thanks but no thanks. I don't do favors for guys or let guys suck on my peepee. I have a 5' Latina that calls it hers anyway, so I get all that I want.

THANKS!

MR. BMJ

[/QUOTE]


That must have taken a lot of time.
Some "decent" points there.....

Nothing special.

Lot of "words"..............

 

[Ulter]

Bro what he's shown there is that you have a perpensity for lying on the board and being a hypcrite. And that it's very easy to demonstrate this. His case in point was your Advil rant.
Mine will be the lie that you bought AIFM and sent it to a hospital to be tested.

1. I have your sales records. You never bought the product.
2. That hospital doesn't have the equipment to test this product.

I was beginning to give you credit I see now that you don't deserve. You're just looking for attention and shouldn't even be here.

 

[itlnstln]

get this back up - don't want anyone to miss it

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Same bullshit different day Anthony. And your ego is hilarious. Before you yanked the contents of your book off the boards and Nandi your life's only accomplishment was what? Chemist? Scientist? Researcher? Any Science degrees? No, a professional rugby player. Those are your credentials for this book. And you're attacking Macro who holds 3 degrees including a PhD? Wow, put a guys name on a book and he's a genius, never mind who actually wrote it.

You weren't SUSPENDED for speaking out against AIFM. You were SUSPENDED for name calling and the WAY you spoke out. The posts went from civil to 3rd grade and were deleted. Just like Mr X does to those who do that to him. Mods can give a member a "time out" as George calls it, you got one, get over it.

The book that has your name as a contributor is number #3 in it's category? Out of how many?
It's rank is #71,311 Translation: It's barely moving
The contents of this book were mostly taken from the AS boards or Nandi.
Do the people here NEED Anthony Roberts? No, there is nothing revolutionary in your book that isn't already here or at Nandi's board. You want to answer posts?

My credentials have never been claimed to be anything that they're not.

I got a time out from Macro, right? And when was it removed? Within hours. So clearly he wasn't correct in giving me that time out, now was he? Was he?

There are 123 books in my category (Anabolic Steroids) anbd it is listed third in the sales portion.

The comments in my book were not "mostly taken from AAS boards, actually. Do you even have a copy of it?

Aren't most of your products "taken from elsewhere" also? As I recall, didn't Duchaine first suggest transdermal Yohimbe? Oh...and didn't Avant Labs have a sesame seed product before you, Macro, and his three degrees? Terrible.

My book is as original as anything that can ever be written in this age. And your comments on Karl are laughable....my book is dedicated (in part) to him, so credit is given where it was due, in every case. Read the dedication...if you even have the book you're criticizing.

Your comments are once again, silly and unfounded. In your last attack againse me (now deleted) you claimed I am a failed rugby player...now you claim I am a professional. Which is it?

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Oh and BTW, by posting in your real name you're going to find out that you're liable for your posts. Just ask Patrick Arnold.

IS this some kind of Vague threat?

Or are you telling us all that you and Macro don't use your real names, because you don't want to be liable for what you say?

Hmmm....

 

[Ulter]

What are you stupid? It's a discussion board about scheduled drugs. Do you think that maybe all the names are anonymous for a reason? hmmm

The phrase is "vailed threat" Einstein, not vague.

And the answer is no. Nothing I do or say is vailed. I'm trying to give you some sound advice. And since Macro has a law degree he was doing the same. But you read it any way you like.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

What are you stupid? It's a discussion board about scheduled drugs. Do you think that maybe all the names are anonymous for a reason? hmmm

The phrase is "vailed threat" Einstein, not vague.

And the answer is no. Nothing I do or say is vailed. I'm trying to give you some sound advice. And since Macro has a law degree he was doing the same. But you read it any way you like.

First of all, I know what I meant. I was asking if you were vaguely threatening me.

Second, if you are going to make an effort to correct me on a word, at least know proper spelling of the one you are using in it's place.

"Vailed threat" (your attempt) should be "Veiled threat"....I love that you call me "Einstein" and then can't even spell your attempt at correcting me... which was wrong in the first place...

Ha ha...any more corrections for me? Can you spell "pwned"?

 

[sparetire]

what's with all of the polls recently?

AIFM's orginal formula caused rashes - or a skin irritation. The latest formula that I am currently using, causes no skin irritation whatsover! If you get a skin irritation on your forearm, put it on the top of your feet.

 

[Ulter]

First of all, I know what I meant. I was asking if you were vaguely threatening me.

Second, if you are going to make an effort to correct me on a word, at least know proper spelling of the one you are using in it's place.

"Vailed threat" (your attempt) should be "Veiled threat"....I love that you call me "Einstein" and then can't even spell your attempt at correcting me... which was wrong in the first place...

Ha ha...any more corrections for me? Can you spell "pwned"?

You're right it was a typo. But the correction wasn't about spelling it was about your choice of words. The point being I don't make veiled threats. A point lost on you completely.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

The point being I don't make veiled threats. A point lost on you completely.

Did the point have to do with AIFM and how many have gotten a rash from it, and many think that it's also not a good product?

Or was the point to attack me as a person? To insult me and claim my work to not be valuable, and that my book is "barely selling" or something else?

Does discrediting me (which you haven't) help AIFM be a better product? Are less people getting a rash from it now that you have insulted my integrity?

Also, I don't see your name on any orders for my book, so how in Gods name do you know whats in it well enough to say that it's "stolen from the boards"? Or is it that the you guys are so used to stealing ideas (Sesalean, Yohimburn, etc..) that you figured everyone did it?

Oh...and...umm...if I recall...Karl called your board and products a waste of time, and Macro's various claims for the AF store products "unfounded". Thats what I recall, having been a mod with him on 2 seperate boards, a co-writer with him for an online magazine, and someone who regularly corresponded with him ...

 

[Anthony Roberts]

You're right it was a typo..

A typo is an error you make when you are typing and hit the wrong key(hence the name). Thats why it's typographical error. A typographer is a person or business engaged in preparing text, specifically typed or written, for printing. The errors they make are printing or typing errors, and they are not responsible for spelling. Hence, by definition, the only "errors" they can possibly make are in typing, not spelling. Ergo: "Typo".

Your mistake is not a "typo" as you said, but rather a simple spelling error (see below).

See how you made it two separate times? In two instances? It's a spelling error, not a typo. You just didn't know how to spell the word you attempted to use when you attempted to correct me. Even better is that you asked if I was stupid before you did made your 2 errors in spelling...

What are you stupid? It's a discussion board about scheduled drugs. Do you think that maybe all the names are anonymous for a reason? hmmm

The phrase is "vailed threat" Einstein, not vague.

And the answer is no. Nothing I do or say is vailed. I'm trying to give you some sound advice. And since Macro has a law degree he was doing the same. But you read it any way you like.

(I'm not the best speller or gramaticist in the world...in fact, I'm Dyslexic...but jeeze...if I were going to "correct" someone, I would at least spell simple shit right!)

 

[Ulter]

Also, I don't see your name on any orders for my book, so how in Gods name do you know whats in it well enough to say that it's "stolen from the boards"? Or is it that the you guys are so used to stealing ideas (Sesalean, Yohimburn, etc..) that you figured everyone did it?

No, I didn't spend MY money on it. I was quoting you. YOU posted where you got the contents. I didn't have to bother checking it, I thought you were telling the truth. Or should I check it?
Our product is sold at Amazon as well. So I know there is no way for you to know if I buy your book or not. Unless you haven't sold any copies of course. Then you'd know. Is that how you know? You haven't sold any? Come on, you had to sell a couple.

I imagine you're looking for more time out here.

The board is going to look a lot different pretty soon. George is making some great changes to it.

Karl? No, actually he didn't say any of those things on a board. Not that it matters. He was wrong as often as he was right.

People type than when they mean then their when they mean they're. It's a typo, get over it.

You would have to have intregity in order for me to insult it.

Whoa! I didn't say your book wasn't valuable. Nope, I recommended the book on this board. Just because the major body of work in it is not yours doesn't mean it's not valuable.

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

i gots a rash

 

[VictorBR]

god damnit this shit is fucked up !

sorry for the language , but I am really surprised by this .

I will tell what I think , it might not matter to some people but I am sure it will matter to a lot of people .

I have always used AF store products with GREAT SUCESS , I can honestly say that they have not just the best suplement for bbers , but ALSO the best CUSTOMER SUPORT EVER , I am talking all the companies that I had to use customer support in my whole life , they have the best EVER .

Ulter and Macro always helped me when I needed, answering more than 1000 questions that I asked them over the past 7 years . I have never personally , see someone with more knowledge about this whole thing than macro and ulter .

I never tired AIFM because it is just easier for me to use aromasin , but I don´t really understand why the fuck people complain of the harsh .

I mean c´mon OBVIOUSLY , if you see a small harsh starting you should STOP using it imediately and ask for a REFUND which I am sure they will GIVE you right away .

It has the warning in the bottle , so you use it at your own RISK . If you develop a harsh , stop using it and ask for a refund . SIMPLE AS THAT .

So what if they developed one product that might cause allergic reactions to a few people , like I said , there is a warning there , so use it at your own risk

I just can´t express how much Ulter and Macro care for their customers , they are the only ONES HERE that keep HELPING me ALL THE TIME , aswering any questions that I might have , not just related to their products but bodybuilding questions in general .

And that is why I will use their products untill I stop lifting , and since I am 26 only , that will take about 50 years maybe.

Victor

 

[MR. BMJ]

Well, i'll try this again......3 or 4 times a charm hopefully.

Anthony, can you please comment on the following stated by Macro:

"in triceptors case (the person that anthony does not actually care about but is trying to use his unfortunate situation to bolster his erroneous conclusions) he was using what he recconed to be 60mg per day DELIVERED of ATD. Thats 10-12 times the clinical suppression dose. He did this for 3-4 months without taking an AAS."

Is this correct? If so, how can he state any validity to a transdermal ATD product if it were taken 10-12 times the clinical suppression dose?

If I do not get an answer, i'll just take that it is indeed irrelevant to the thread....or that you are just ignoring it.

Whatever happens, Thanks!

BMJ

 

[MR. BMJ]

get this back up - don't want anyone to miss it

Dude, you are such a drama queen. Why are you bumping a thread that continually shows how ignorant you are? Bumping it would be the last thing I would do in your case considering every body is making you look bad.

Whatever floats your boat though man.

BMJ

 

[MR. BMJ]

Anthony, in regards to the following that I am quoting you on:

"Aren't most of your products "taken from elsewhere" also? As I recall, didn't Duchaine first suggest transdermal Yohimbe? Oh...and didn't Avant Labs have a sesame seed product before you, Macro, and his three degrees? Terrible."

In regards to these two products, "Yohimburn" and "Sesapure," I have never seen either Macro or Ulter, mention that they took credit for bringing these types of products to the market as the first to do so. In fact, i've seen both state that Duchaine was the first to bring topical yohimburn use (as anybody knows he did), and that others already DID have Sesamin products out before them. I HAVE seen them state that their products are the best, but this is to be expected by any supplement company/developement. I'm sure you will never hear either MP Technologies or Avant Labs state that their competition has a better product...do you honostly think this to be the case? Come on bro, this is common sense. I've seen Ulter mention Duchaine many times even on AF. Both Macro and Par Deus have had differences in the past on their yohimbine topical solutions, so you cannot expect either to give ground. The truth comes out with consumers that buy the products, and this is obvious. If they keep buying a particular product, then they obviously like it, if not, then they don't purchase it. I think both parties are doing pretty good though.

Actually, I have learned a ton from Par Deus. He is a bright guy. Much smarter than myself.

Everybody knows that Avant came out with a Sesamin product before Macro developed his. However, I have never seen them slam that product on AF either. BUT, you have to expect them to promote their own product, especially on a board that they pay to be a sponsor.

In fact, the only real product that I have seen Ulter really mention bringing into the forefront of the BB community is r-ALA. Not to be confused with the r,s-enantiomer ALA.

IF there are any threads showing the opposite of what I said, then just bring up the thread links, and I will stand corrected. I can vouch for both Ulter and Macro only for the fact that I know them better than I know you. I don't know you like them, so obviously I cannot vouch for you in the same way. However, I am not trying to slander you either. Well, I hope you do not think that because like I mentioned multiple times in my previous response, you ARE an asset to this board, its members, and the BB community.

BMJ

 

[itlnstln]

Dude, you are such a drama queen. Why are you bumping a thread that continually shows how ignorant you are? Bumping it would be the last thing I would do in your case considering every body is making you look bad.

Whatever floats your boat though man.

BMJ

I completely disagree with you.

Can you "grasp" that concept?

 

[jumpshot]

I completely disagree with you.

Can you "grasp" that concept?

"what" does that "mean" ?

you jackass

 

[itlnstln]

"what" does that "mean" ?

you jackass

 

[drrman]

A typo is an error you make when you are typing and hit the wrong key(hence the name). Thats why it's typographical error. A typographer is a person or business engaged in preparing text, specifically typed or written, for printing. The errors they make are printing or typing errors, and they are not responsible for spelling. Hence, by definition, the only "errors" they can possibly make are in typing, not spelling. Ergo: "Typo".

Your mistake is not a "typo" as you said, but rather a simple spelling error (see below).

See how you made it two separate times? In two instances? It's a spelling error, not a typo. You just didn't know how to spell the word you attempted to use when you attempted to correct me. Even better is that you asked if I was stupid before you did made your 2 errors in spelling...




(I'm not the best speller or gramaticist in the world...in fact, I'm Dyslexic...but jeeze...if I were going to "correct" someone, I would at least spell simple shit right!)

THIS IS FUCKING CHILDISH....who gives a fuck if he mispelled a word.....take this shit to pms or emails

 

[Quiltie]

I hate to bump this ugly thread, but I must weigh in on the 'real name' issue. Posting with your real name does not increase your exposure to liability. There's no legal precedent to differentiate between using a pseudonym and using your given name, that's like stating that you can call in a bomb threat, tell someone you're going to kill them, confess to a crime, etc. etc. and that using a fake name will invalidate it. Maybe it makes it easier to find you, but I doubt it. It wouldn't take me more than seconds to find anyone that posts on this board, especially with a court order to sniff and log IP's (and traceroute). But anyway, we may not be anonymous, but we ARE protected here by the first amendment. The only case that could ever be made (and it would be a tough one) would be a RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) act case stating in effect that "The forum exists solely to promote and promulgate illegal acts", which it quite obviously does not. The information sharing stops at advice and experiences, so nobody need panic about that. It's pretty hard to say you personally don't like something or think that it works and get sued (successfully) for it. There's no expectation of privacy on a public board, anyway.
Just my .2 (or less, in this case).

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Anthony, in regards to the following that I am quoting you on:

"Aren't most of your products "taken from elsewhere" also? As I recall, didn't Duchaine first suggest transdermal Yohimbe? Oh...and didn't Avant Labs have a sesame seed product before you, Macro, and his three degrees? Terrible."

In regards to these two products, "Yohimburn" and "Sesapure," I have never seen either Macro or Ulter, mention that they took credit for bringing these types of products to the market as the first to do so. In fact, i've seen both state that Duchaine was the first to bring topical yohimburn use (as anybody knows he did), and that others already DID have Sesamin products out before them. I HAVE seen them state that their products are the best, but this is to be expected by any supplement company/developement. I'm sure you will never hear either MP Technologies or Avant Labs state that their competition has a better product...do you honostly think this to be the case? Come on bro, this is common sense. I've seen Ulter mention Duchaine many times even on AF. Both Macro and Par Deus have had differences in the past on their yohimbine topical solutions, so you cannot expect either to give ground. The truth comes out with consumers that buy the products, and this is obvious. If they keep buying a particular product, then they obviously like it, if not, then they don't purchase it. I think both parties are doing pretty good though.

Actually, I have learned a ton from Par Deus. He is a bright guy. Much smarter than myself.

Everybody knows that Avant came out with a Sesamin product before Macro developed his. However, I have never seen them slam that product on AF either. BUT, you have to expect them to promote their own product, especially on a board that they pay to be a sponsor.

In fact, the only real product that I have seen Ulter really mention bringing into the forefront of the BB community is r-ALA. Not to be confused with the r,s-enantiomer ALA.

IF there are any threads showing the opposite of what I said, then just bring up the thread links, and I will stand corrected. I can vouch for both Ulter and Macro only for the fact that I know them better than I know you. I don't know you like them, so obviously I cannot vouch for you in the same way. However, I am not trying to slander you either. Well, I hope you do not think that because like I mentioned multiple times in my previous response, you ARE an asset to this board, its members, and the BB community.

BMJ

When the two people in question see fit to make the absurd (and ingermane) claim that everything in my book is unoriginal and stolen from the boards, I think it is just as relevant to point out that their entire product line is unoriginal. But in my case, I can point to specific instances where their products were on the market under another companies name, before their own version; and they can't and have not done the same in their critique of my book. In fact, I don't see their names on any orders for it. I think they're attacking something they've never even seen.

My book, for the record, does not give people a rash...

Also, you actually do know me in some respect, as I joined Anabolic Fitness about 5 years ago, and was a regular poster for awhile. My screen name there and elsewhere is "hooker"...I left after I posted a study on a thread concerning Anadrol, which Ulter and Macro disputed the validity of, without providing any counterexamples or relevant arguments against. Sounds familiar, now that I think about it.

I also did the same thing to another (female) mod there, and proved her absurdly wrong- to which she deleted my study, and then locked every other thread where that question came up claiming "This has been answered before"...unfortunately, her answer was also wrong before...laughably wrong.

That pattern of being wrong, and persecuting those who point it out seems to be a pattern for Macrulter.

 

[Ulter]

As I have pointed out several times your problem is that you can't tell the difference between someone locking or delete what you write for way you post it or doing it because of the scientific content. You're abrasive and abusive. To your credit your better than you used to be. But your profanity and name calling is what gets you censored, not the science.
You're like Animal Part 2. No where near as learned but the same principal. If you were not such an ass when you're disputed you'd have a lot more posts in tact.
You attacked the female mod in your typical fashion. That's why you were deleted.
And it apprears you want to continue this trend even now on this board when you should be more congenial while pushing your book.

You keep repeating that people got a rash from AIFM as though it's some secret you're exposing. It may cause a rash THAT'S IN MY SIGNATURE. People see your posting that for what it is by the email and PM's I get. You should really consider giving it rest if you're going stay as a member here.

The products AF sells are better than other supp companies products and that's all I've ever said. WE brought R+ ALA to America. Everything else we just improved on. We make good products better. That's our only claim.