500 testE EW only

[tarzan007]

Hi peeps

Im looking to start my first cyclus (had planned one before but didn't make it)

1-12 TestE 500mg EW (2x250 Monday/thursday )

PCT
12-15 HCG 500IU ED
12-16 Aromasin 25mg ED
12-18 Nolvadex 20mg ED

should be safe and simple.

Stats
Age/29
BF 17%

I plan to keep a strict diet on around 2300kcal to loose 0.5kg pr week.

How does it look?
Any suggestions to the cycles?
Any suggestions to the protein/fat/carb ratio?

 

[jmat2407]

Hi peeps

Im looking to start my first cyclus (had planned one before but didn't make it)

1-12 TestE 500mg EW (2x250 Monday/thursday )

PCT
12-15 HCG 500IU ED
12-16 Aromasin 25mg ED
12-18 Nolvadex 20mg ED

should be safe and simple.

Stats
Age/29
BF 17%
\

Wrong. HCG should be run DURING cycle, not pct. Aromasin should also be taken during cycle AS NEEDED for estrogen control. Novla alone is a pretty shitty pct. Also 17% bf is to high to start a cycke IMO. You have A LOT more research to do my friend.

 

[HAYEZ]

test alone isnt really great for cutting..id toss in some var or winny for that edge and keep the test as a lean mass holder while cutting


nolvadex is fine for pct , id up the dose tho


pct i would do is

hcg 500iu ed for 10 days starting last test shot or 1000ie eod same period

nolvadex
40mg 14 days
20mg 14 days

 

[jmat2407]

test alone isnt really great for cutting..id toss in some var or winny for that edge and keep the test as a lean mass holder while cutting


nolvadex is fine for pct , id up the dose tho


pct i would do is

hcg 500iu ed for 10 days starting last test shot or 1000ie eod same period

nolvadex
40mg 14 days
20mg 14 days

That is a weak pct man, I can't believe you would actually recommend that this guy. If I was going to run a serm in my pct it would be clomid not nolva anyways.

 

[thelocal]

hayes ur cool but i disagree,if diet is down and cardio is high,with hardcore workouts..test can be great for cutting

 

[EZ_E]

Hi peeps

Im looking to start my first cyclus (had planned one before but didn't make it)

1-12 TestE 500mg EW (2x250 Monday/thursday )

PCT
12-15 HCG 500IU ED
12-16 Aromasin 25mg ED
12-18 Nolvadex 20mg ED

should be safe and simple.

Stats
Age/29
BF 17%

I plan to keep a strict diet on around 2300kcal to loose 0.5kg pr week.

How does it look?
Any suggestions to the cycles?
Any suggestions to the protein/fat/carb ratio?

Why are you trying to lose weight on cycle?

~EZ

 

[HAYEZ]

That is a weak pct man, I can't believe you would actually recommend that this guy. If I was going to run a serm in my pct it would be clomid not nolva anyways.

that pct was my pct for years running 1000 test 600-800 deca and 700 tren back to back cycles and recovered each time with 600+ test levels with the bloodwork to back it up... so please dont say its weak...it actually works just fine

anyone i have coached thru cycles has had similiar results with bloodwork

 

[HAYEZ]

hayes ur cool but i disagree,if diet is down and cardio is high,with hardcore workouts..test can be great for cutting

test itself will add water weight and bloat you ,even with an ai it still gives you that extra few pounds. adding in another option like var that targets visceral fat is just an added benefit and attaining the goal from 3 different ways..

im not a big test fan i find it does little dose wise compared to other drugs... i used to do 1000-1200 test ew cycle after cycle..now i havent gone over 500mg ew in 2 years..right now im actually only on 250 test ew with 50mg dbol

 

[thelocal]

well guess im not as senstive to the water weight on test..i cruise on 250 also..never done 1gram tho..am thinking about doing a big test+decca+tren+tbol cycle tho..i know your a fan of those big cycles

 

[HAYEZ]

one of my best cycles

1200 test 600 deca 700 tren ...results were amazing


if your gonna do it do it up! this summer i plan to hit another big one up once i have the funds...careful with the oral tho it may be a bit much bp wise if you run the high doses of injects

 

[thelocal]

ya your right that bp may get high but liek u said u gotta do it right lol..

 

[chesty]

500mg test e a week with hcg at 250iux2/week with nolva and aromasin on hand is good. If your diet is solid (I mean something like a strict ckd or paleo for example) and your workouts are religous zealotry you definitely loose bf.

I would shoot the test once a week since it is an enanthate. I do my sust/enanthates that way. Saves me from being a human pin cushion at times.

I am cruising on 250mg test e/week right now and with diet I am still losing bf. But I am also in the midst of an experiment with hcg.

Last year I started at 17% bf and I am now at 8%. Of course I have 30 years of lifting under my belt along with some bb competitions and cycles, so I was at an advantage when I started my cycle.

 

[digit0x]

Hi peeps

Im looking to start my first cyclus (had planned one before but didn't make it)

1-12 TestE 500mg EW (2x250 Monday/thursday )

PCT
12-15 HCG 500IU ED
12-16 Aromasin 25mg ED
12-18 Nolvadex 20mg ED

should be safe and simple.

Stats
Age/29
BF 17%

I plan to keep a strict diet on around 2300kcal to loose 0.5kg pr week.

How does it look?
Any suggestions to the cycles?
Any suggestions to the protein/fat/carb ratio?

Too much HCG. Bro above said on cycle which is debatable. I have used HCG post with great results. Too much aromasin as well. I believe they come in 25mg tabs right? Cut that in half at least. Estro is not the enemy.

Don't hold back with the info if you really want help you gotta put it all out there. 17 is high but do able just make sure you are ready for this.
Make sure you are ready.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I've never gone over 500mg test ew on a consistent basis so I can't comment on whether running 750-1gram ew would blow me away with the difference in results, but I do believe test is best either run solo to keep you anabolic and produce steady/consistent gains, but nothing mind blowing or run as a base with a stronger compound.

I think many guys could gain consistently for years on 500mg ew np. Checking out sustanon at 500mg ew after about 5-6 weeks the day you inject you have roughly 10-11x more active test in your system than a regular guy. Even if you inject all 500 1x a week you never go lower than almost 4x what a stud of a guy produces before your next inject.

If you can't gain on that... .... .. .

I am starting to think that 500mg test ew with 20mg dbol ed or some low to moderate dose deca or tren would probably be superior to 1gram test ew do to the different effects of the 2 versus one drug. There's no question test+dbol is better than test alone or dbol alone.

 

[tarzan007]

Wow I really got my a** kicked in this post - even though I thought I had it all figured out. I want to thank you guys for taking the time. Its appreciated.

Regarding the PCT which seems to be the biggest issue I would like to explain why I have selected it to be like this.

Obviously Ill be needing aSERM – I have chosen Nolvadex because it has estrogenic effects, it lowers cholesterol-, as well as preventing gynocomastia by preventing oestrogen gene transcription in breast tissue. It acts as an anti-oestrogen in the pituitary, thus increasing LH and FSH, which result in an increase in testosterone. 20mgs of Nolvadex is said to increase testosterone levels about 150%.

In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed. It can also block a bit of estrogen in the pituitary, which is a great benefit when used with HCG.

HCG stimulates the by initiating gene transcription that is identical to that of Luetenizing Hormone, thereby causing the Leydig Cells to produce testosterone. This way I can stimulate LH and FSH production with Nolvadex, and then directly stimulate the Leydig Cells as well, to produce testosterone by different routes.

While HCG increases Testosterone, it increases estrogen as well. Unfortunately, the downregulation of the Leydig Cell LH receptor itself, seems to also play a role in high dose HCG testicular desensitization. This is also done by HCG actually blocking the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone to testosterone. Nolvadex stops this blocking-action of HCG from taking place because of Nolvadex’s direct antiestrogenic effect and LH-upregulating effect on the Pituitary, suppression of gonadotropins via HCG is almost totally stopped with concurrent administration of Nolvadex

Now there there’s the issue of estrogen caused by that HCG-stimulated surge in testosterone. I could use low doses (300iu or so) to avoid some of that major spike in estrogen, and thus cause far less inhibition from the HCG but I would be using a bit more HCG per injection (500iu) to get my body functioning fully more quickly.

Im adding AI because it makes estrogen receptors useless, and instead of just inhibiting production it cuts off production totally. Aromasin can effectively remove up to about 85%+ of estrogen from your body. Most importantly, using Aromasin together with Nolvadex doesn’t reduce exemestane’s effectiveness. I think the problem of ANY inhibition possible with HCG is solved why I can use that 500iu/day dose that I wanted to use previously. With this PCT, there will be a rapid increase in LH, FSH, and testosterone, as well as almost a complete block on all the factors that could be causing natural hormones to be delayed in returning to baseline.

Does that make sense or am I screwed?

 

[Deltoid_87]

test itself will add water weight and bloat you ,even with an ai it still gives you that extra few pounds. adding in another option like var that targets visceral fat is just an added benefit and attaining the goal from 3 different ways..

im not a big test fan i find it does little dose wise compared to other drugs... i used to do 1000-1200 test ew cycle after cycle..now i havent gone over 500mg ew in 2 years..right now im actually only on 250 test ew with 50mg dbol

I knew I wasnt the only one... No need to run test over 500mg! Keep it low and add other compounds for better results.

Test/Mast is a great, simple cutter. Smashes Test alone.

 

[tarzan007]

So we agree 500mg EW is good. What about the PCT?

 

[gotmilk]

I would shoot the test once a week since it is an enanthate. I do my sust/enanthates that way. Saves me from being a human pin cushion at times.

+1

I'd actually switch to Omna's if I was in his position and start tweaking my protein/carb intake before I even started.

 

[tarzan007]

Tweak it to what? Omna is s bit to
Much for first I would say

 

[gotmilk]

Omna is s bit to
Much for first I would say

Omnadren is too much? I disagree. Some of the best test based cycles was Sustenon, especially back when you could get the redijects.

 

[tarzan007]

I understand what you are saying but omna is a mix of a lot of esters and I dont know how I would response - and if I face sides I wouldn't know what causes it. At least that's the theory. Could you please tell how to tweak the protein/carbs? Currently I'm running -500 kcal regardless where they come from. But that's wrong? What mix should it be? P40/C40/F40 ?

 

[jmat2407]

P40/C40/F40 ?

Epic simple math fail. 40+40+40 would= 120

Bulking I usually go P40/C40/F20.

Cutting I'll probly go 50/30/20

 

[stevesmi]

bro I read this whole thread and you got some good advice.

my 2 cents coincides with much of whats been said but let me re-iterate.

if you want to cut and have a strict diet START NOW before cycle. why would you wait till you are ON CYCLE to start eating good? makes no sense to me. its like you are taking steroids as a motivational tool (emotions) and not as a physical tool. so like EZE said above, start now and hold off until you drop your bf.

secondly yes stick with just test for a first cycle! lets not add in things right now. if something goes wrong you won't know what to do if you run more AAS. so stick with a nice conservative first cycle

yes I believe in running hcg during cycle, this is debatable.. but i think it helps have a softer landing when your nuts stay plump. you can start hcg week 3 but I like to start it week 5, that is when your HPTA starts shutting down. and run it INTO PCT. your last shot of test will stay in ur body 3 weeks.. so up the hcg dosage that day.. and run hcg higher dose for 3 weeks.. once the esthers clear I like to do 2 doses of HMG. and then run a LOW DOSE SERM of your choice for 5 weeks. and then finish up with a bottle of unleashed. this is exactly what I do and I am one of the few guys anymore who actually cycle on and off.

all in all with experience you will be able to answer all your questions on your own. nothing wrong with experimenting with different PCT's to find the ones that suits you best

 

[chesty]

Test is test. The esters just regulate how fast it is released into ur system. As for hcg on cycle to keep your nuts from shutting down. Ever have one of your balls ache like you got kicked while on cycle? That's cause they are shutting down and shrinking. Better to keep em operational during cycle than to let them shrivel to raisenettes.

 

[chesty]

Cutting I go p49.5/c1/f49.5

 

[HAYEZ]

i never understood the fascination with sust or omnas..more sides same results..keep it simple

 

[chesty]

I like sust. One of my favorites Then just plain old enanthate can't go wrong with that.

 

[tarzan007]

Now that was some very very helpfull posts. So this is what Ill do

Ill cut an other 4-5kg without roids. When an acceptable BF is reached (13-14%) I'll start 12 week test E only. I'll run small doses of HCG after 4-5 week and continue it into my PCT. Ill be dropping aromasin so PCT will be HCG + Nolva. Might use 0.5mg adex while ON if I bloat to much or gyno issues. Diet will be 500 + kcal and ratio will be 50/30/25

Howz dat?

 

[chesty]

Don't drop aromasin (I prefer it). Use it oct. I never had issues with bloat/watervretention. Adex is good though. Keep either on hand.

 

[EZ_E]

bro I read this whole thread and you got some good advice.

my 2 cents coincides with much of whats been said but let me re-iterate.

if you want to cut and have a strict diet START NOW before cycle. why would you wait till you are ON CYCLE to start eating good? makes no sense to me. its like you are taking steroids as a motivational tool (emotions) and not as a physical tool. so like EZE said above, start now and hold off until you drop your bf.

secondly yes stick with just test for a first cycle! lets not add in things right now. if something goes wrong you won't know what to do if you run more AAS. so stick with a nice conservative first cycle

yes I believe in running hcg during cycle, this is debatable.. but i think it helps have a softer landing when your nuts stay plump. you can start hcg week 3 but I like to start it week 5, that is when your HPTA starts shutting down. and run it INTO PCT. your last shot of test will stay in ur body 3 weeks.. so up the hcg dosage that day.. and run hcg higher dose for 3 weeks.. once the esthers clear I like to do 2 doses of HMG. and then run a LOW DOSE SERM of your choice for 5 weeks. and then finish up with a bottle of unleashed. this is exactly what I do and I am one of the few guys anymore who actually cycle on and off.

all in all with experience you will be able to answer all your questions on your own. nothing wrong with experimenting with different PCT's to find the ones that suits you best

Money in the bank ^^^^^

~EZ

 

[gotmilk]

if you want to cut and have a strict diet START NOW before cycle. why would you wait till you are ON CYCLE to start eating good?

+1

40/40/30 and make sure your fats are from skim milk and cottage cheese.

Me personally, when on test, my caloric intake has to be around 18 times my bodyweight in pounds. I have a high metabolism as it is. My protein comes mostly from eggs, chicken, and fresh haddock (the luck of living in Maine). My carbs are mostly rice, potatoes, and low sodium pasta.

As for the comment about different test esters and how will you know which affects you...it really does not matter if it's cyp, prop, or enan....you're not going to get moobs from Cyp and be fine from Prop at the same time. Either test elevated your own estrogen or it does not. I've seen studies where 600mg of enanthate barely raises your own natural estrogen levels and I've seen people using less with titties.

As for HCG, I'm not really down with using any during the first 4weeks of a test cycle. Only because your blood serum levels will not peak until 30 days into using. Your nizznuts will naturally slow production within the first 10 days.

 

[HAYEZ]

Now that was some very very helpfull posts. So this is what Ill do

Ill cut an other 4-5kg without roids. When an acceptable BF is reached (13-14%) I'll start 12 week test E only. I'll run small doses of HCG after 4-5 week and continue it into my PCT. Ill be dropping aromasin so PCT will be HCG + Nolva. Might use 0.5mg adex while ON if I bloat to much or gyno issues. Diet will be 500 + kcal and ratio will be 50/30/25

Howz dat?

dont put off a cycle over bodyfat that ridiculous..do your cycle and enjoy it..u dont have to be lean to cycle

 

[jmat2407]

dont put off a cycle over bodyfat that ridiculous..do your cycle and enjoy it..u dont have to be lean to cycle

That is one of the dumbest thing I have ever read on these forums. I'm sry man I know you said you've been in the game a long time but IMO you are giving out some bad advice.

I'm not saying you have to be ripped b4 you start a cycle but you should at least be in good overall health and body fat % is ONE of the indicators of that. So to say body fat % doesn't matter at all is a lil crazy to me.

 

[chesty]

12% may seem like an easy goal and for some of us its a walk in the park. But for others, many factors play into it. Low Test levels to start with, low gh output, thyroid function, etc. If your goal is to cut up, then yes, do what you can drug free, then add in the drugs. If your goal is to bulk, then body fat is not as much of a concern. Hell, look at the pro's like Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman, Lee Priest, with few exceptions off season most of these guys put on 30-60 pounds and no one is going to tell me it is all water and muscle. Most of that is fat.

I started my last cycle at almost 17% bf and nothing I did prior was I able to get below that and I used to compete when I was younger in body building. Now I am holding at 8% bf 3 months after cycle end and starting next cutting cycle in 6 weeks with goal to chop that down to 4-6% bf and then maintain. Part of my problem was my age. At some point your body just doesn't respond to things no matter how well laid out and executed they are. It is a fact of life.

I think the more important advice would be to make sure you are healthy and in shape. Being healthy and in shape will ensure your body is ready for the added stress of steroids. Being at a certain bf percentage in no way ensures this. I have met many people who were around 10%, but were so out of shape they got winded walking a flight of stairs.

 

[jmat2407]

I think the more important advice would be to make sure you are healthy and in shape. Being healthy and in shape will ensure your body is ready for the added stress of steroids. Being at a certain bf percentage in no way ensures this. I have met many people who were around 10%, but were so out of shape they got winded walking a flight of stairs.

I can agree with this. I just didn't like the way it was worded above that body fat % doesn't matter at all. Wording it like that would make it seem someone can use AAS to GET in shape, and that I can't support.

 

[chesty]

That is true. Remember the pro baseball player who was fat and started taking ephedrine to lose weight? He was out of shape and dropped dead at practice from a heart attack I believe due to extreme dehydration from taking ephedrine while an out of shape fat body.

We have to be careful how we word our advice so as not to give the wrong impression to people. Especially the newbs who know little to nothing except for what they have read. They could get the wrong impression and do something not in their best interest.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I'll fuckin say it.

Bodyfat really has no bearing on whether someone should use aas.

Think I'm full of shit. Say that to a super heavyweight olympic lifter or powerlifter and they will laugh at you.

I don't believe in someone using steroids thinking that the roids will do all the work for them, but if you know what you are doing then using roids while cutting is extremely beneficial just as it is while bulking.

Steroids are equally effective whether aiding cutting or bulking. If you think those massive pro bodybuilders can cut down to ultra ripped levels without being on a boat load of anabolics then you are obtuse.

If someone takes steroids solely because they think it will help them shed fat alone then that is wrong.

If a person using steroids while cutting to retain and even build muscle while losing large amounts of bodyfat then that is smart so long as they know what they are doing.

Why do you think natural bodybuilders are so much smaller on stage than roided up guys? It's because a natural guy cannot retain all that muscle they have when sitting at 10-17% bodyfat when they shred down to an ultra lean state. They become catabolic and lose muscle. I've seen quite a few natural bodybuilders that are pretty damn big in the gym, but look kinda small when they compete.

Steroids are not used solely for bodybuilding purposes. Steroids are not only physique enhancers, but performance enhancers. I myself use them more for performance enhancement because my goal is to get stronger and stronger with getting bigger being a side effect of the heavy weights and high food intake.

Believing someone should not use steroids simply because they don't meet a specific bodyfat criteria in your own mind is asinine.

Not every one gives a fuck whether they have a 6 pack or not. How about about a linebacker that has alot of muscle and fat. By your standards he should not use steroids when in fact he would get far more out of their use than you would what with increased strength, anaerobic endurance and faster recovery speed.

Before you go forming concrete opinions you might want to do a little more research.

 

[jmat2407]

I'll fuckin say it.

Bodyfat really has no bearing on whether someone should use aas.

Think I'm full of shit. Say that to a super heavyweight olympic lifter or powerlifter and they will laugh at you.

I don't believe in someone using steroids thinking that the roids will do all the work for them, but if you know what you are doing then using roids while cutting is extremely beneficial just as it is while bulking.

Steroids are equally effective whether aiding cutting or bulking. If you think those massive pro bodybuilders can cut down to ultra ripped levels without being on a boat load of anabolics then you are obtuse.

If someone takes steroids solely because they think it will help them shed fat alone then that is wrong.

If a person using steroids while cutting to retain and even build muscle while losing large amounts of bodyfat then that is smart so long as they know what they are doing.

Why do you think natural bodybuilders are so much smaller on stage than roided up guys? It's because a natural guy cannot retain all that muscle they have when sitting at 10-17% bodyfat when they shred down to an ultra lean state. They become catabolic and lose muscle. I've seen quite a few natural bodybuilders that are pretty damn big in the gym, but look kinda small when they compete.

Steroids are not used solely for bodybuilding purposes. Steroids are not only physique enhancers, but performance enhancers. I myself use them more for performance enhancement because my goal is to get stronger and stronger with getting bigger being a side effect of the heavy weights and high food intake.

Believing someone should not use steroids simply because they don't meet a specific bodyfat criteria in your own mind is asinine.

Not every one gives a fuck whether they have a 6 pack or not. How about about a linebacker that has alot of muscle and fat. By your standards he should not use steroids when in fact he would get far more out of their use than you would what with increased strength, anaerobic endurance and faster recovery speed.

Before you go forming concrete opinions you might want to do a little more research.

NO need to personally attack me. I didn't meen to label an EXACT body fat % as a requirement, I was simply saying you should at least be in healthy overall shape b4 taking AAS and body fat % is one of the indicators of overall health, not the ONLY indicator by any meens but one of them.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Fair enough.

I apologize for being overly aggressive with that post.

 

[chesty]

I think the point has been made that that your state of health is more important than a particular number. So long as your in shape and know what your goal is you should be able to attain it with steroids if your willing to bust your ass in and out of the gym!

 

[HAYEZ]

That is one of the dumbest thing I have ever read on these forums. I'm sry man I know you said you've been in the game a long time but IMO you are giving out some bad advice.

I'm not saying you have to be ripped b4 you start a cycle but you should at least be in good overall health and body fat % is ONE of the indicators of that. So to say body fat % doesn't matter at all is a lil crazy to me.

thats like telling power lifters not to cycle because there not lean lol..i know you mean well but bodyfat is not a reason not to cycle...if routine and diet are spot on then to use the rest of the tools would be expected..now if ur 30% bodyfat and never touched a weight before then id expect them to drop dead

 

[Deltoid_87]

I say crack on with the cycle now and I still say add some Mast