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1000 lb bench... possible?

Is a 1000 pound bench possible?

  • Yes

    Votes: 208 62.1%

  • No

    Votes: 85 25.4%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 42 12.5%
  • Total voters
    335
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh my goodness, powerlifting is just that powerlifting, is not to be compared to "real world strength. Not everything you try to lift will have a bar attached to it. hear we go again with apples and oranges. the argument with gear is never ending, yes it does help the lift, but come one the shirt is not going to hold 1000lbs at arms length. most powerlifter who train for geared lifts do not train for raw maxes, so to compare the two is just not right.

JIMM
 
TRUEsoldier said:
You got a link to check it out on video?? thanks
Click to expand...

Here's the link to the video of it online:

http://irongod.net/video/965 bench.MPG

bbu_animation.gif
 
SlavikHavik said:
It will be done.
Id like to see some serious deadlift numbers move up though. The record for this lift has been stuck for ages.
It will be a sad day when the WR for bench surpasses the WR Deadlift, and starts getting close to the squat record :S
Click to expand...

Last year Andy Bolton broke Doyle Kennedy's record weighing in almost 150lbs lighter than Doyle who's record stood for almost 20yrs. There are just too many more joints envolved in deads than bench for the same types of returns.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
Scotsman said:
Last year Andy Bolton broke Doyle Kennedy's record weighing in almost 150lbs lighter than Doyle who's record stood for almost 20yrs. There are just too many more joints envolved in deads than bench for the same types of returns.

Cheers,
Scotsman
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I don't get it, can you explain it a bit further ? :p

From what I know squats have been moving up faster too. Is that mainly because of equipment?

Thanks
 
w8lifterchick said:
would you have approved that lift (assuming you were a judge)?
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You are absolutly correct, it was a sloppy lift!! :toilet:
but it did get past in his fed, so for that I have to give it credit, just hope that next time he makes it look "perty"!! :rose:
hehe

JIMM
:garza:
 
BodybuildingUniverse said:
Not being trained in that fed as a judge and not being there...REAL hard to comment. (Did I duck that one good enough?)
:p

bbu_animation.gif
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yes.
:-)
we were discussing this on my site... its hard to judge a video, and probably harder yet to judge with all that pressure on you, and a 300+ lb guy and all his friends glaring at you.
but a lot of people feel the bar moved down a bit.
 
I remember speaking to one of the judges of the great Anthony Clarks 800 at the arnold in the 90s. She said the pressure was so immense for white lights...it was her last time in the judges chair. Crowd of 10,000 muscleheads gets pissed if you give reds and then they get pissed a week later when they realize it wasn't locked out fully. No win situation for a world record lift really. Unless it is Brent Mikesell squatting that is - always without a doubt! :) (Not saying that there's doubt with Gene's 965 by any means. White lights from the judges there are good enough for me)
 
1,000lb Bench

dragon14 said:
I'm wondering what you guys think about the possibility of a 1000 pound bench. Can the tendons and ligaments support it? Are the muscles used big enough.. as with squats? Anyone know of any unofficial attempts that were even close?
Click to expand...

The human body can support anything given there is the muscle and joint capsule structure intact. The muscles have to be strong enough to move, the ligaments and tendons have to be strong enough to support the power generated by the muscles.

I believe Anthony Clark could get up close to 1,000lbs if it was his main goal.

:chomp:
 
lavi said:
I don't get it, can you explain it a bit further ? :p

From what I know squats have been moving up faster too. Is that mainly because of equipment?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Well Andy bolton got a 935 dead while Doyle Kennedy got a 925 dead. Bolton is about 320lbs while Kennedy was about 440lbs.

I think there are several factors in the new increases in the lifts.
1. Better training/more scientific approach
2. Better equipment/designed specifically for big weights with certain style of lifting.
3. Better "supplements"/ both legal and not
4. People are getting bigger and stronger as time goes by, plus many top level lifters have married other top level lifters which may lead to a genetic increase in the causes for strength increase.

Bench is outpacing the other lifts but I think this is also due to the proliferation of bench only meets, and bench specialized lifters. Yes the new material shirts help a great deal but also the fact that manufacturers such as Karin make shirts taylor made for athletes could be a big part of that.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
TheProject said:
The 1000lb barrier's gonna be broken soon, either by Kennelly or Rychlak...I heard Kennelly just hit 1015 in the gym.
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What about mendy? I heard that he has already broken 1000 in the gym, and has tryed it a couple times in compitition.
 
Yeah I heard from a guy at a meet that Mendy got 1003 in a competition, but his shirt was disqualified.. either way, Rychlak's got 975.. 1000 is just a matter of time!
 
LittleDave said:
Yeah I heard from a guy at a meet that Mendy got 1003 in a competition, but his shirt was disqualified.. either way, Rychlak's got 975.. 1000 is just a matter of time!
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Mendelson has not moved 1,000 off his chest in competition..
 
So Scott Mendelson or whoever benches 713 RAW, but benches like 965 equipped? That means his shirt is giving him 252lbs of assistance. That's alot of fricking help.

Have most of the lifters these days gotten stronger than the lifters back when?

I don't really think so. Maybe a little.

If you put Kaz up against "ANY" guy nowadays when he was around his prime and put him in the best gear he would probably out total any man alive right now.

There were guy's as big and as strong as the guys around nowadays.

I think what's really pushing the totals higher is more drugs and higher tech equipment. Plain and simple.

Nothing wrong with equipment, but to say the guys nowadays are stronger isn't necessarily correct.
 
GhettoStudMuffin said:
So Scott Mendelson or whoever benches 713 RAW, but benches like 965 equipped? That means his shirt is giving him 252lbs of assistance. That's alot of fricking help.

Have most of the lifters these days gotten stronger than the lifters back when?

I don't really think so. Maybe a little.

If you put Kaz up against "ANY" guy nowadays when he was around his prime and put him in the best gear he would probably out total any man alive right now.

There were guy's as big and as strong as the guys around nowadays.

I think what's really pushing the totals higher is more drugs and higher tech equipment. Plain and simple.

Nothing wrong with equipment, but to say the guys nowadays are stronger isn't necessarily correct.
Click to expand...

technique is also a big factor.

Many powerlifters are figuring out very cleaver ways of using leverage and gravaty to work in their favor as much as possible, meanwhile body builders and many old timers do/did the oposite.

In addition to lifting raw, Kaz used clean form. Mendy is a BIG and STRONG mother fucker but he uses a ton of leg drive to help him move the weights he does.
 
I watched the IPF powerlifting championships from South Africa on TV the other night. It might have been last years', I don't know. The SHW class set a new world record which beet Kaz's which had stood for around twenty years.

The different federations allow different techniques as well as different levels of equipment. You can't compare apples and lemons.
 
Blut Wump said:
I watched the IPF powerlifting championships from South Africa on TV the other night. It might have been last years', I don't know. The SHW class set a new world record which beet Kaz's which had stood for around twenty years.

The different federations allow different techniques as well as different levels of equipment. You can't compare apples and lemons.
Click to expand...


I know. The point I'm trying to make is that for judging strength you have to draw the line somewhere.

I don't care about how much weight you can move, that is boring to me. What is interesting about powerlifting is the strength that people deonstrate, and equipment gets in the way of that.
 
That's one of the good aspects of the IPF: very strict style and no gear.

My previous post started out just to agree with ghettostudmuffin: that Kaz's record total had stood for twenty years.
 
Why are shirts allowed... its such fucking bullshit... the powerlifting indrusty hit a hault with kazmaier's 661 and ever since then jumps have been due to the Bench shirt... Gene Rycelak won't ever break 661 w/o a shirt... Thats all that matters...

And for Kaz's record, IMO it still stands... He did it w/o a bench shirt or squat suit... he coulda done 2800 instead of 2425 in a matter of no time with a shirt/suit.
 
Throw2Far said:
Why are shirts allowed... its such fucking bullshit... the powerlifting indrusty hit a hault with kazmaier's 661 and ever since then jumps have been due to the Bench shirt... Gene Rycelak won't ever break 661 w/o a shirt... Thats all that matters...

And for Kaz's record, IMO it still stands... He did it w/o a bench shirt or squat suit... he coulda done 2800 instead of 2425 in a matter of no time with a shirt/suit.
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Acctually Scott mendelson just beat the raw bench record with 715!!!
 
Agreed, Today's best are monsters and strength legends, however I just think that the numbers are inflated due to the bench shirt.

My point was not to say that Kazmaier had the best raw ever, but to say that a feat like Medelson or Kazmaier's should go down in the record books as WR's, not these inflated bench shirted lifts.

Why not give Mendelson the WR @ 715 lbs and not some bullshit inflated 975 pounds.

Yes 975 pounds is an amazing feat even with a shirt, however it makes a man like Kazmaier @ 661 or Medelson at 713.2 look like a pussy, when in fact both are truly stronger.

Shirts are an inflation of true strength and should be banned.

I can bench raw 530 lbs. If I train for a year with a bench shirt and hit 662 can I walk around saying im a 662 lb bencher. Fuck no.

Why dont we just lower the basketball hoop? Make the Football Field shorter? How bout soccer goals bigger? Ya that'd be a great way to prove that today's athletes are getting better and better...

I guess in our quest for the 1000 lb bencher we will take it any way we can get it...

PS

Kazmaier took the record up to 661 and in 20+ years it has only increased 54 pounds, not 339 lbs. That is what I meant by hault, not that no one had broken it. When I said IMO it still stands that was for the WR Total. For benching, yes Mendelson for this era and Kazmaier for the last (even though Mendelson couldn't hold Kaz's jock strap in the squat or deadlift), but fuck the WWE version of Powerlifting, Shirts are for show...
 
hey do you happen to know what kaz's records are in squat and dead? i am just curious.

I have heard that scott can squat over a grand? maybe not just what i am heard on other forums.

Sean12
 
I was under the impression that a man had already benched 1005 pounds. Im pretty sure because me and my friend were arguing bout it and I said that I didnt think is was nearly possible.
 
Jacked Clown said:
I was under the impression that a man had already benched 1005 pounds. Im pretty sure because me and my friend were arguing bout it and I said that I didnt think is was nearly possible.
Click to expand...


Yes Rychlak hit 1,005 lb bench.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
And as far as the shirt thing goes yes it does help, yes if you train in one you can gain a lot from it. But simple fact is you still have to lock out the weight on your own so your joints and muscles still have to be strong enough to move the weight. If you don't want to bench in a shirt fine just quit bitching about people who do. If you take PL'rs equipment away then you need to take away runners high tech shoes and suits and have them run barefoot cause that's how the greeks did it. Football players shouldn't be allowed to use pads, all baseball bats should be made of single wood ash and the balls should be loose hand wrapped, all the supplements, protein powders and other modern fare needs to be eliminated.

We take it for granted that other sports get to use equipment to make them better why should it be any different for powerlifting. As said before the bench doesn't lift the weight for you. And I'd bet anyone on this board any amound that no matter what equipment they put on they'll never reach 1,000lbs bench.

End rant.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
Scotsman said:
We take it for granted that other sports get to use equipment to make them better why should it be any different for powerlifting. As said before the bench doesn't lift the weight for you. And I'd bet anyone on this board any amound that no matter what equipment they put on they'll never reach 1,000lbs bench.

End rant.

Cheers,
Scotsman
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Well "Stated" one still has to put in the gym time and hard work
 
Scotsman said:
... all the supplements, protein powders and other modern fare needs to be eliminated....
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This is where the comparison stops making sense. Something you put into your body is entirely diffrent than equipment you use.

I know I might be alone here, but even steriods actually bother me less than equipment because you still have to use fleash to move the weight, which means you still are that strong no mater how you got to be that strong.
 
Archimedes states that given a place to stand and a lever long enough he could move the Earth. Even the Greeks were happy to use equipment to move heavy weights.
 
Tiervexx said:
This is where the comparison stops making sense. Something you put into your body is entirely diffrent than equipment you use.

I know I might be alone here, but even steriods actually bother me less than equipment because you still have to use fleash to move the weight, which means you still are that strong no mater how you got to be that strong.
Click to expand...


My point was to be absurd, because the argument will neer be resolved. Why is it any more fair to take steroids to break old records than it is to put on a shirt, if it was set without drugs or modern supplements? I am tired as hell of listening to people whine about equipment, when there are several federations now that either don't allow equipment or only allow single poly gear. So if you don't want to lift in gear then don't do it, it's as simple as that.

Aside from the fact that the gear doesn't lift the weight for you. YOU still have to move the weight. Putting a triple denim shirt on a 300lb bencher won't make him a 1000lb bencher it takes tremendous amounts of training for your muscles, joints, and tendons to handle that kind of a load. You still have to lock out the weight and control it completely on your own. The shirt does not lift the weight for you!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
Blut Wump said:
Archimedes states that given a place to stand and a lever long enough he could move the Earth.
Click to expand...

Great argument against equipment. By the logic used by most proponents of equipment you could say that it was still them moving the weight.

Blut Wump said:
Even the Greeks were happy to use equipment to move heavy weights.
Click to expand...

Yes, for Construction and physics demonstrations!

You obviously did not think this post through.
 
Scotsman said:
My point was to be absurd, because the argument will neer be resolved. Why is it any more fair to take steroids to break old records than it is to put on a shirt, if it was set without drugs or modern supplements? I am tired as hell of listening to people whine about equipment, when there are several federations now that either don't allow equipment or only allow single poly gear. So if you don't want to lift in gear then don't do it, it's as simple as that.

Aside from the fact that the gear doesn't lift the weight for you. YOU still have to move the weight. Putting a triple denim shirt on a 300lb bencher won't make him a 1000lb bencher it takes tremendous amounts of training for your muscles, joints, and tendons to handle that kind of a load. You still have to lock out the weight and control it completely on your own. The shirt does not lift the weight for you!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Scotsman
Click to expand...


Even though current shirts still require a lot of strength to move the weights that many lifters move it is an obvious indisputable fact that everyone's shirted maxes would equal their raw max if the shirt did not do atleast some of the lifting.

likewise shirt technology continues to improve, and the gap between shirted and raw maxes is GROWING. If the technology needed to build a shirt that would make it possible for your average 100lb girl to bench press 1000lb does not already exist, it will.

Obviously a line has to be drawn on equipment. I think the only logical line is at zero.
 
I'm sorry, have we given up on irony around here?

People lift to have fun and to experience the unbridled exhilaration of shifting a bad-ass ton of weight. We're already past reasonable comparisons with lifters of yore just as world records in other sports creep ever onwards. As such, what's the problem when disparate groups compare lifting prowess with their chosen kit, supplement stacks or drug combinations?

Great minds have delved into their own depths and agreed to what degree assistance is reasonable. Different groups made different determinations and others just wanted the fun of splitting away. Thus were federations created.

Each Federation acknowledges its own records and considers those records to be the true ones according to the tenets of its own Great Minds. Greater Minds look down and simply decide which one they'd have the best shot or most fun in.

Tiervexx said:
Great argument against equipment. By the logic used by most proponents of equipment you could say that it was still them moving the weight.



Yes, for Construction and physics demonstrations!

You obviously did not think this post through.
Click to expand...
 
Tiervexx said:
Even though current shirts still require a lot of strength to move the weights that many lifters move it is an obvious indisputable fact that everyone's shirted maxes would equal their raw max if the shirt did not do atleast some of the lifting.

likewise shirt technology continues to improve, and the gap between shirted and raw maxes is GROWING. If the technology needed to build a shirt that would make it possible for your average 100lb girl to bench press 1000lb does not already exist, it will.

Obviously a line has to be drawn on equipment. I think the only logical line is at zero.
Click to expand...


For the last time if you don't want to lift in equipment then don't that is your choice. If you don't want to recognize the lifts then fine that's your choice. If you want to lift in a no equip fed than by all means go ahead. The fact is that people are going to lift in equipment and there is nothing to be done about it until a time comes when no one cares how much you lift in a meet, I for one hope this time never arrives.

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
To make something clear, I was never trying to argue that all federations must be the same.

What I really mean to say is that sooner or later reasonable people are going to be forced to stop caring about records that where set with equipment.

Now drugs and supplements on the other hand, things that only affect your flesh are unaviodable and will almost certainly continue forever.
 
I go both ways I think it needs to be how strong YOU really are. I understand safety in elbow wraps, knee wraps, or wrist wraps but now adays to much is to much...I think someone lifting raw is 10x more impressive then all this stuff now a days.
 
That Bitch Finally Got What He Deserved! ! ! A Torn Pec ! ! ! Thanks For Making A Mockery Of The Sport While You Were At It Bro ! ! !
 
a 1000 lb bench will be possible in a few years, as soon as one of these manufacturer's develop a good enough bench press shirt.

damn shame that the focus of powerlifting has gone from being the best lifter to getting the best bench press shirt/squat suit
 
Ya Mendellson is an animal. He deserves 10x the credit that Rychlak does...

PS
Fighting on the internet is like running in the special olympics... No matter who wins, you're still retarted.
 
blut wump said:
I thought he was doing an exhibition negative rep. I'm just glad he was OK.
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no he was trying to beet his old record of 1005 by 10lbs.he lost some wate and his bench shirt wasent fitting right on his left side his week side.because of the imbalins he droped the bare to the left and on his liver.he went to the hospital for treetment on his liver but he says he is ok.
 
Of all the arguments in the world, this seems to be the most controversial haha. I can't even be sure what side I'm on. Here's a few points to some of the comments that have been made.

First of all, the sport reference. Yes, equipment in other sports has evolved. There is no denying that. But there are two big differences in those sports versus powerlifting. First of all, in sports like football and baseball, it is not so much about the individual's physical feat, but the skill applied within the game. Therefore everyone is on the same playing field.

The difference in powerlifting is that the essence of the sport is the strength of the individual. While it is impressive to see the power of Barry Bonds hitting a homerun, it is far from the same level or importance to the game. The strength of the body IS what powerlifting is. To compromise that by using equipment is just flat out decieving.

Secondly, another factor against shirts is the degree to which they help. Ive heard people say Gene benches anywhere from under 600 to 660 raw. That is impressive, but we're talking about a near 400lb difference in lifts. That is like a 60-70% boost instantianously. That is like shorting the baseball fences from 400+feet to 280. Think about that. That is huge, not something to take lightly. Is it still impressive lift? Oh yeah. It proves that he has some serious tricep and lockout strength, not to mention simply being able to handle 1000_ lbs in his hands. However, in the real world, a measure of strength and force is what YOU yourself can do, not what you a piece of equipment can do. Fact is, completely naked, Scott mendleson is a stronger bench presser than Gene. That is a fact.

So to all those who scream about just competing in shirted events if you don't agree, just stop and think what it is doing to the integrity of the sport. You would all agree that it needs more mainstream appreciation and attention. Well, pulling the wool over people's eyes is not the way to do that. The average joe hears 1000 pound bench and it all of a sudden makes Mendy's 713 bench look weak in comparison. Remember we are not ignorant to these facts but the general public is.


So I ask to those shirted supporters, is that really what you want? When is it gonna end? The gap between shirted and non-shirted is only going to get bigger. At what point do you draw the line and forget that the nature of powerlifting is human flesh versus weights?
 
When Gene dropped that 1005 on his chest, Ronnie laughed at him and said he'd outbench Gene raw any day... I was there...
 
Sports reference: I see no difference between bench shirts and wearing cleats, spikes, Nike super shoes, aerodynamic suits, power bicycles etc. We clearly have a different perspective on what the lift is about.

Gene works to improve his shirted bench. His raw bench is nothing more than idle curiosity. If he were to concentrate on working his raw then maybe it'd go up but who cares? He's the shirted bench record-holder.

The general public has no knowledge of Gene's 1005 lift and neither do the vast majority of lifters. Those that know of it and care in the slightest know that he did it with a shirt. As w2bb has pointed out several times, shirted benchers don't compare their lifts with raw lifters.
 
"Sports reference: I see no difference between bench shirts and wearing cleats, spikes, Nike super shoes, aerodynamic suits, power bicycles etc."

raw bench record ~700
shirted bench record ~1000

that is a 300/700 = ~43% improvement.

if wearing cleats or spikes dropped a 10 second sprinter down to approximately 6 seconds, then I'd be with you.

but they don't.
 
Yeah, exactly. Also, doesn't it seem a litte strange that the bench press record is higher than the deadlift record?
 
Get a clue you guys, everyone's jumpin on the bandwagon yet no one has any clue what the deal with gear is.

If you compete and get paid to be the best with a shirt, why run the risk of injuring yourself to compete with someone that wears no shirt.

You can hate all you want, go up to these guys and try to out bench them, otherwise keep being a poser and post b.s. on websites.
 
Chambewy20 said:
Get a clue you guys, everyone's jumpin on the bandwagon yet no one has any clue what the deal with gear is.

If you compete and get paid to be the best with a shirt, why run the risk of injuring yourself to compete with someone that wears no shirt.

You can hate all you want, go up to these guys and try to out bench them, otherwise keep being a poser and post b.s. on websites.
Click to expand...

As usual you have totally avoided addressing anything anyone has said, or even giving an any real argument of your own.
 
Tiervexx said:
As usual you have totally avoided addressing anything anyone has said, or even giving an any real argument of your own.
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Oh pleez, don't start again with the "steroids" argument and aren't you the guy who previously admitted to never using a shirt or competing?

Enlighten me, what is the issue, raw vs. shirted benchers, if you want to compete raw, compete against your peers, if not, whether it's single ply drug tested, single ply poly only drug tested, double ply drug anything goes, triple ply anything goes, there are organizations and classifications for anyone.

So again, is the issue that the shirted max is 200+ pounds more than the raw max, that has been established, do any of you know what shirt, how many plys and what was going through the judges head when Rychlak broke a grand?

I myself saw one of his hands dip therefore negating the lift but others saw it acceptable, so what do you think, have you ever seen it?

Enlighten us with your criticism...
 
Chambewy20 said:
Oh pleez, don't start again with the "steroids" argument and aren't you the guy who previously admitted to never using a shirt or competing?

Enlighten me, what is the issue, raw vs. shirted benchers, if you want to compete raw, compete against your peers, if not, whether it's single ply drug tested, single ply poly only drug tested, double ply drug anything goes, triple ply anything goes, there are organizations and classifications for anyone.

So again, is the issue that the shirted max is 200+ pounds more than the raw max, that has been established, do any of you know what shirt, how many plys and what was going through the judges head when Rychlak broke a grand?

I myself saw one of his hands dip therefore negating the lift but others saw it acceptable, so what do you think, have you ever seen it?

Enlighten us with your criticism...
Click to expand...



Seems you are missing the point. No one (well at least not me) is trying to discredit Gene or calling shirt wearers weak at all. Just because those guys can bench 1000 times more than doesn't mean the logistics of the argument don't hold up. We're talking about the integrity of the sport. Will you still have the same stance when there's octuple ply titanium suits that have people bneching 2000lbs?
 
That again is basing that all the strenth comes from the shirt.

http://www.nasa-sports.com/Results/Results USA.htm

Scroll down to a guy named Tiny Meeker, he hit 848.77 in a single ply shirt, I saw him put it on AND he was tested for AAS. He's not a super heavyweight, he's prolly not even 6' tall. He just missed 935 because he couldn't lock one arm out. Does this single ply shirt wearing powerlifter who was tested for steroids discredit the sport? Sure you've never heard of him, I think he's a top notch athlete.

Arguing that bench shirts do all the work is as pointless as arguing that AAS are the only reason there is a profession called "bodybuilding." Can anyone ever get on the same playing field unless everyone uses the same drugs or equipment? Has steroids discredited the sport of bodybuilding like supportive gear has the sport of powerlifting?

Is it the fact that's steroid use is just common knowledge and now that the sport of powerlifting has advanced the technology of the equipment used and gained the tinyest amount of popularity that people want to bash it because they themselves can't consider moving the amounts of weight others do therefore it's obviously a sham?
 
The public? lol. Ever watch football? Madden was saying the other day how Tiki Barber could move the line because he squats 1000 lbs. The public has no concept of weights and how much is lifted.
 
Chambewy20 said:
Arguing that bench shirts do all the work
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no one of sensibility is arguing that.

what we are arguing is that powerlifting records have become more an issue of "better equipment" than "stronger athlete"

I just think it's a shame, that's all.

Just my opinion.
 
kethnaab said:
no one of sensibility is arguing that.
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That's the problem, mostly everyone who is arguing has no clue about powerlifting gear or have ever used it.

I mean a guy who throughs up over 800, almost put up over 900, was not a superheavyweight AND was tested for AAS with his results made public to the rest of the folks in organization. It was a single ply poly shirt as well, do you actually think all the work or the majority of the work was done by a peice of polyester material?

Yeah they make a spectacle every time Gene benche's somewhere, might appear to lessen the integrity of the sport to some, but take a look at bodybuilding, Ronnie to Arnold?, it there even a comparison?

Regardless, what's wrong with a sport that's been around for so long actually gaining some popularity, just like WSM, those guys wear suits when they squat, i've seen Marius blow his out once. Just don't assume that these guys make the sport a laughing stock because Gene Rychlak is the first time you recognized a powerlifters name since Kaz.
 
Does passing an AAS test actually count for anything? From what I've read they can be passed by stopping your test suspension two or three days before. Just curious.
 
Just saying that this guy was a short round guy, built for benching, no serious bloat like a lot of the guys and he just nailed the weight.

He doesn't make stupid claims in articles about being pure, no one most likely knows who the hell he is outside of this organization. IMO the mere fact that he hit over 8 and almost over 9 in a single ply poly shirt at a meet in a high school lifting room not even being 300 pounds was impressive.

This was in response to everyone beleiving that shirts do all the work, I gave an example of a guy in single ply poly shirt making a hell of a lift at a drug tested event.

For some guys, yeah i do beleive they would never hit near the weight without the shirt, but to argue that no one can isn't accurate. Also to argue these points with guys who have never wore shirts or powerlifting gear... well that's just pointless...
 
Chambewy20 said:
*snip*
I mean a guy who throughs up over 800, almost put up over 900, was not a superheavyweight AND was tested for AAS with his results made public to the rest of the folks in organization. It was a single ply poly shirt as well, do you actually think all the work or the majority of the work was done by a peice of polyester material?
Click to expand...

that's obviously not what *I'm* talking about.

900 in a single ply is outstanding. it's outstanding in a denim, for that matter, but the point that I've been trying to make all along is that the gear that is in use today to set records is simply too "powerful". The bench record inched up, bit by bit, for quite some time until Ken Lain broke 700 officially about, what, 15 years ago?

then once the gear makers learn a few tricks, then bench press record shoots up 300 lbs? c'mon, that's ridiculous.

*snip*

Just don't assume that these guys make the sport a laughing stock because Gene Rychlak is the first time you recognized a powerlifters name since Kaz.
Click to expand...

and don't assume because I disagree with your assertion about the way gear is used in PL that I only recognize Kaz and Rychlak. That is ridiculous and, in fact, is the exact OPPOSITE of what I'm saying, and one of the reasons why I think the gear shit is just that...shit.

Dave Pasanella (an example) is forgotten. Long gone, long forgotten. Despite being one of the best lifters in the sport ever, he is forgotten, because he wasn't around to get a chance to use the ridiculous gear you can wear, and his totals are piddly compared to the groove-brief/double-denim springy-springy squat suits the guys are wearing today. A little guy can break ridiculous records now, and Dan Austin will be forgotten as well, since a good bench and squat suit can add between 400-600 lbs to a total anymore. Little dudes like Dan Austin are going to be forgotten a lot faster and easier.

bah. the original Inzer Blast shirts maybe put 25-50 lbs on your bench, and kept your shoulders stable. now...phack....300 lbs? 400 lbs? on ONE FRICKIN' LIFT?!?!?!

Lemme think back a bit...hurm...my exact #s will be off, but you'll get the point.

Let's go back to 1990. Ken Lain, I believe, had the bench record @ 715ish, Dave pasanella had the squat record with 1030ish and Gary Heisey, that lurpee bastard, had the deadlift record with, i believe, a 936 (that specific number jumps into mind).

Excuse me if the #s are off. Now then, let's take a look at what has happened to those records. The bench press "record" is over 1000 (an increase of approximately 40%). The squat "record" is now 1200 (an increase of almost 20%).

and Benedikt Magnussun (sp?) managed to recently break the deadlift record with, i believe, a 968 deadlift, an increase of...wow....approximately 3%.

So, 40% increase, 20% increase, 3% increase. Which one of those lifts gets almost no help from the extra equipment? the deadlift. Which exercise has shown only a marginal increase in the last decade +? The deadlift.

Pretty obvious to me. a boost of 20-50 lbs while increasing joint stability? Sure! That is great!

A boost of 200-300 lbs though? That's ridiculous and casts a shadow over almost everyone and all records these days.

As for the comment regarding lifting gear, you, again, are assuming that someone who has an issue with the gear has never lifted with the gear. you are wrong. Several *have* lifted with gear, and hated it (myself included). Not that I didn't like being able to use weight I had NO GODDAMNED BUSINESS USING, but it was just...fake....

Gene Rychlak, for example, hit 1005. Let's assume he did the first 700 of it. That kicks ass! But there has to be a limit. an extra 300 damn pounds from a shirt is insane. Grats to him for being a strong fugger. However, he has a bench press record of "1005", not '700" or whatever, which is what it should be.

I mean, hell. Let's change wooden baseball bats to aluminum bats. Then some nobody can come along, destroy the 755-home run record by smashing over 1000 home runs and destroy records that the Babe and Hank Aaron worked their whole careers to get.
 
Well put. I always wonder what some of these guys that are using demin shirts say when they are asked how much can THEY bench. Do they tell them the shirt # or their real #? Not that I don't respect how much practice and power it takes to handle that much weight but c'mon. They can't really say THEY benched 900+ or whatever. Do they really believe THEIR chest, THEIR tri's and THEIR back did all the work? Well maybe they have convinced themselves THEY did it but until I see that person Bench with just a t shirt on, I don't believe THEY really did all the work.
 
i dunno. maybe we should take one of karen kline's double denim shirts, but it on a bench, help the shirt unrack the weight, and then see how much the shirt can bench
 
Like I said, "Not that I don't respect how much practice and power it takes to handle that much weight but c'mon" It takes incredible strength to handle weight like that. The first time I squated 600# I gained even more respect for someone to hold that much weight over their chest. However I used my own muscles to do that. A person using a shirt that requires pulling the weight down that should crush them makes them a liar if they tell someone THEY benched ALL that weight. And like I said before it requires an incredible amount of strength, practice, power and balls to hold, pull and push the amount of weight these guys are doing. I sure as hell couldnt do it even with a shirt. But when I tell someone I bench 405 I can tell them that "I" (my pecs, tris, and back) benched 405. Now if I ask a guy who wears a shirt that requires 500#s on the bar just to get the weight to go to their chest to tell me how much he benches and he says " I did 720 and my shirt did 150" that would be the truth. I would be very impressed that he can handle 870 and even more impressed he can bench 720.
 
kethnaab said:
that's obviously not what *I'm* talking about.

900 in a single ply is outstanding. it's outstanding in a denim, for that matter, but the point that I've been trying to make all along is that the gear that is in use today to set records is simply too "powerful".

What everyone argues is these lifts are all shirt and their not, I gave an example that everyone chooses to ignore for the most part.

The bench record inched up, bit by bit, for quite some time until Ken Lain broke 700 officially about, what, 15 years ago?

Ted Arcidi benched 705 in 1985.

then once the gear makers learn a few tricks, then bench press record shoots up 300 lbs? c'mon, that's ridiculous.

The video of Gene benching a grand is all over the net, as I posted here before and will repeat, the lift doesn't look legit at all, I think it's his left hand that dips, that's a red light for anyone to see, a lot of top level competitors I've been acquaintences with think the same, although they are full meet competitors, not bench specialists. If you really think it's that you get 300 lbs out of a shirt, put YOUR numbers up there and let us all see what kind of carryover you get.

and don't assume because I disagree with your assertion about the way gear is used in PL that I only recognize Kaz and Rychlak. The majority of my responses aren't targetting YOU personally, YOU seem to be the only one who has even tried any gear or competed maybe but saying you get 300 out of a shirt knowing it's bullshit is bullshit.


Dave Pasanella (an example) is forgotten. Despite being one of the best lifters in the sport ever, he is forgotten, because he wasn't around to get a chance to use the ridiculous gear you can wear, and his totals are piddly compared to the groove-brief/double-denim springy-springy squat suits the guys are wearing today.

Dave Pasanella is not forgotten, him, Ed Coan, Fred Hatfield and Anthony Clark were the only Powerlifters I ever saw in Muscle and Fitness, the only weightlifting a.k.a. bodybuilding magazine I could buy off a shelf, Powerlifting USA wasn't available, and I still remember him squatting over a grand in the mid early 80's, just like Fred Hatfield. Also Fred Hatfield was maybe a 242 or 275, but no where near weighing 275 when he squatted over a grand, not a superheavyweight who couldn't come close to squatting 3 times his bodyweight, not even considering almost 4. Also with the totals, Dave P. could squat a grand but what could he bench or squat, who knows, just like Ed Coan could pull 880 at 220, what can he bench or squat, again who knows, with the advent of the bench shirt how much did that improved Ed's bench, i still don't think he's made it out of the 500's or maybe low 600's, Anthony Clark was the first teenager to bench 600, when was he a teenager, over 20 years ago, when was that broken, less than 2 years ago, I saw it.

Excuse me if the #s are off. Now then, let's take a look at what has happened to those records. The bench press "record" is over 1000 (an increase of approximately 40%Last time i checked, the difference between 705 and 1005 is more like 30%, that's not bad over 20 years IMO ). The squat "record" is now 1200 (an increase of almost 20%).

and Benedikt Magnussun (sp?) managed to recently break the deadlift record with, i believe, a 968 deadlift, an increase of...wow....approximately 3%.

Magnusson, he took token lifts to break the deadlift record and now there arguing that WPO competitors must at least have a WPO qualifying total for their records to count, which he did not, does that sound fair?

So, 40% increase 20% increase, 3% increase. Which one of those lifts gets almost no help from the extra equipment? the deadlift. Which exercise has shown only a marginal increase in the last decade +? The deadlift.


As for the comment regarding lifting gear, you, again, are assuming that someone who has an issue with the gear has never lifted with the gear. you are wrong. Several *have* lifted with gear, and hated it (myself included). Not that I didn't like being able to use weight I had NO GODDAMNED BUSINESS USING, but it was just...fake....

Gene Rychlak, for example, hit 1005. Let's assume he did the first 700 of it. That kicks ass! But there has to be a limit. an extra 300 damn pounds from a shirt is insane. Grats to him for being a strong fugger. However, he has a bench press record of "1005", not '700" or whatever, which is what it should be.

Ted Arcidi benched 705 with a shirt back in 1985, Scott Mendleson benched 715 raw a year or two ago, you can argue all day long about the advances of the bench shirt from then to now but it's still raw vs. shirted

from Ryan Kennelly ""The whole raw thing, you're just asking for trouble if you're going to be dealing with any kind of weight," says Ryan Kennelly. "If you rip your pec, you rip your rotator cuff, you're out of there. Thank God for bench shirts."

It is what it is, raw benchers don't get no sponsors and don't win any fame.

I mean, hell. Let's change wooden baseball bats to aluminum bats. Then some nobody can come along, destroy the 755-home run record by smashing over 1000 home runs and destroy records that the Babe and Hank Aaron worked their whole careers to get.Who needs aluminum bats when you got the sauce?
Click to expand...

Here's the most reliable set of records IMO

http://www.powermagonline.com/latest-news/records.asp

They don't have any historical numbers, otherwise we could compare, have seen before and I will try to find...

This is fun ;)
 
kethnaab said:
what we are arguing is that powerlifting records have become more an issue of "better equipment" than "stronger athlete"

.
Click to expand...

This is obviously true, and only a fool would argue otherwise. You cannot even begin to compare, even the single ply stuff, of today to yesteryear. But the problem is lifters don't try, the keyboard jockies do. People are just playing by the rules others created. And to be honest, i have heard some of the biggest babies on the net say Genes 1000 was one of the cleanest lifts their is. His 965 may be the one you are referring to, where he had a slight downward motion halfway through.
 
jcp2 said:
This is obviously true, and only a fool would argue otherwise. You cannot even begin to compare, even the single ply stuff, of today to yesteryear. But the problem is lifters don't try, the keyboard jockies do. People are just playing by the rules others created. And to be honest, i have heard some of the biggest babies on the net say Genes 1000 was one of the cleanest lifts their is. His 965 may be the one you are referring to, where he had a slight downward motion halfway through.
Click to expand...

No man this is not what I'm talking about, he never locks out his left and there is no way in hell anyone can say that is a paused bench but they gave it to him anyways, see for yourself.

http://www.irongame.com/videos/04IPANS_GRychlak_1005BP_Small.swf

I know guys that were there and most of them thought that it wasn't any good.

Only a fool would argue that simply by putting on a good enough bench shirt could automatically give you 300 lbs, if that were the case than there would be a ton of 300 lb benchers pushing 600 over night.
 
Chambewy20 said:
No man this is not what I'm talking about, he never locks out his left and there is no way in hell anyone can say that is a paused bench but they gave it to him anyways, see for yourself.

http://www.irongame.com/videos/04IPANS_GRychlak_1005BP_Small.swf

I know guys that were there and most of them thought that it wasn't any good.

Only a fool would argue that simply by putting on a good enough bench shirt could automatically give you 300 lbs, if that were the case than there would be a ton of 300 lb benchers pushing 600 over night.
Click to expand...


What i quoted against was the fact that athletes today aren't stronger than Kaz and Coan necessarily, the equipment inflates numbers theirfore you cannot compare people from different generations. As for Genes lift, that is the first time i have seen athat angle, i would not not judge a lift from a video, and i trust Louis judging more than anyone, but i do agree with you. His 965 most definately had a hitch in it. I thought that was the one being referred to.
 
Chambewy20 said:
Here's the most reliable set of records IMO

http://www.powermagonline.com/latest-news/records.asp

They don't have any historical numbers, otherwise we could compare, have seen before and I will try to find...

This is fun ;)
Click to expand...

that is a kickass site, thanks for the link.

12 weight classes

11 of 12 squat records have been set in the last 5 years.
12 of 12 bench records have been set in the last 3 years.
7 of 12 deadlift records are from the 80s or 90s.

interesting...

in 1990, the squat record was...(I could be off, correct me please if I am) 1030, Dave Passanella. That's now 5 lbs heavier than the 220 record, and it gets crushed by everyone 242 and higher

in 1990, the bench record was 715 by Ken Lain. 715 would now be good for the 198 lb record.

in 1990 the deadlift record was 926 (or 936?) by Garry Heisey. that has obviously been eclipsed, but at least there aren't any 220-lb'ers out there crushing that record like they are in the squat and bench.

serves as a nice reminder for what a badass little Lamar Gant was.

deadlift @ 123lb = 639.3 on 7/10/1982

THAT IS GODDAMN INSANE!
 
I've met Paul "tiny" Meeker before, he currently holds the world record bench at 308. Hellavu nice guy, saw him almost hit 900 something in single ply poly shirt at a tested meet...

Not sure if he did this in a single ply shirt but pretty sure he's natural, damn impressive...




kethnaab said:
that is a kickass site, thanks for the link.

12 weight classes

11 of 12 squat records have been set in the last 5 years.
12 of 12 bench records have been set in the last 3 years.
7 of 12 deadlift records are from the 80s or 90s.

interesting...

in 1990, the squat record was...(I could be off, correct me please if I am) 1030, Dave Passanella. That's now 5 lbs heavier than the 220 record, and it gets crushed by everyone 242 and higher

in 1990, the bench record was 715 by Ken Lain. 715 would now be good for the 198 lb record.

in 1990 the deadlift record was 926 (or 936?) by Garry Heisey. that has obviously been eclipsed, but at least there aren't any 220-lb'ers out there crushing that record like they are in the squat and bench.

serves as a nice reminder for what a badass little Lamar Gant was.

deadlift @ 123lb = 639.3 on 7/10/1982

THAT IS GODDAMN INSANE!
Click to expand...
 
"Tiny Meeker"

is there anyone in the history of history more ill-named than that? *laughs*

yeah, a guy with a bench like that definitely SCREAMS "meek" and "tiny"
 
He was more of a rolly polly, as round as tall kinda guy, sorta like Mike Brown, the young bencher phenom, met him too...

But strong as hell no doubt.
 
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