Would you eat horsemeat? Its lean and high in protein

[BrothaBill]

And please dont fuck up my thread with bringing up seals. I was curious, I was just surfing the internet about the UN and somehow got to torture on wikipedia. THey listed all of the torture methods for humans (read some) and one was starvation. So I followed that to see what info on fasting it had.
Then it had a link to taboo foods and I was reading some info on cultures and their taboos, i.e. Hindus and the sacred cow etc...

So that wiki page about taboos and forbidden foods and cultures said that in the US, Australia and the UK that horsemeat was generally taboo but enjoys popularity in other countries, i.e. France.


Its lean and high in protein like Buffalo meat, would you eat it (assuming that it tasted more or less like beef of course for purposes of discussion)??

If not, why not? Serious answers only please

 

[eat big]

I would eat it maybe once or twice. That's it though. The weirdest meat I've eaten is moose or elk. Can't remember which one. It was in Aspen.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I would eat it, no problem.

I've eaten shark, gator, buffalo, kangaroo, frogs, snails, squid... I have no issue eating anything if it tastes good to me.

True story:

The other day one of my kids asked me a ridiculous question. "Mami, if we were all on a deserted island and we (meaning her and her sisters) died, would you eat us?"

I looked her dead in the face and answered, "Without a doubt."

LOL

 

[BrothaBill]

I would eat it maybe once or twice. That's it though. The weirdest meat I've eaten is moose or elk. Can't remember which one. It was in Aspen.

Why only once or twice, lets say it tasted exactly like beef, was leaner and half the price?

 

[jdevlin1985]

Why only once or twice, lets say it tasted exactly like beef, was leaner and half the price?

If that was the case then yeah, absolutely.

 

[BrothaBill]

I would eat it, no problem.

I've eaten shark, gator, buffalo, kangaroo, frogs, snails, squid... I have no issue eating anything if it tastes good to me.

True story:

The other day one of my kids asked me a ridiculous question. "Mami, if we were all on a deserted island and we (meaning her and her sisters) died, would you eat us?"

I looked her dead in the face and answered, "Without a doubt."

LOL

would you eat dogmeat like asians do? They raise St. Bernards to sell as tablemeat in China, how about cats?

 

[jdevlin1985]

If that was the case then yeah, absolutely.

But then saying that i don't agree with killing such a beautiful animal for meat. Thats a tough question. I think the cons would probably outweigh the pros.

 

[BrothaBill]

But then saying that i don't agree with killing such a beautiful animal for meat. Thats a tough question. I think the cons would probably outweigh the pros.

I wouldnt b/c we had racehorses when I was growing up, even had a racetrack in my back yard lol.
Raised them and cared for them. I could not separate my experience of raising them as a child and now eating them under normal circumstances.

But, my experience is not the norm. I am curious as to why a person would find eating horsemeat taboo and think that Hindus not eating cow is odd

 

[Bikini Mod]

would you eat dogmeat like asians do? They raise St. Bernards to sell as tablemeat in China, how about cats?

ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY.

I've had venison and rabbit. I dont see how one animal is different than any other. If it tastes good to me then I would eat it. period

 

[redguru]

I've heard horse meat is tough. But I would eat it, I've eaten meat from just about any hooved animal.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I wouldnt b/c we had racehorses when I was growing up, even had a racetrack in my back yard lol.
Raised them and cared for them. I could not separate my experience of raising them as a child and now eating them under normal circumstances.

But, my experience is not the norm. I am curious as to why a person would find eating horsemeat taboo and think that Hindus not eating cow is odd

We had all sorts of animals as pets and I loved them dearly too. But food is food... remember what I told my kid?

 

[BrothaBill]

ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY.

I've had venison and rabbit. I dont see how one animal is different than any other. If it tastes good to me then I would eat it. period

wouldnt you be able to kill and butcher a dog with your own hands?

 

[Bikini Mod]

Not much meat there...

Incidentally, that is what I told my daughter. She is particularly slender. I told her that I would have to fatten her up before we ever went somewhere were we might end up shipwrecked LOL

 

[redguru]

I wouldnt b/c we had racehorses when I was growing up, even had a racetrack in my back yard lol.
Raised them and cared for them. I could not separate my experience of raising them as a child and now eating them under normal circumstances.

But, my experience is not the norm. I am curious as to why a person would find eating horsemeat taboo and think that Hindus not eating cow is odd

Dogs and horses are considered taboo by western culture because of our dependance on thier forbearing natures. I would eat it out of necessity, as a meal of final resort.

 

[BrothaBill]

I've heard horse meat is tough. But I would eat it, I've eaten meat from just about any hooved animal.

what about dogs or cats, is there any animal you would not eat (I am trying to avoid the issue of taste)

 

[redguru]

what about dogs or cats, is there any animal you would not eat (I am trying to avoid the issue of taste)

I understand cats are along the lines of foxes and and fur bearing animals like beaver for taste, so not likely. I've eaten groundhog and didn't care for it. Stringy and tough. Dogs are an unknown. I'd have to cross that bridge when I got to it.

 

[BrothaBill]

Dogs and horses are considered taboo by western culture because of our dependance on thier forbearing natures. I would eat it out of necessity, as a meal of final resort.

why as a final resort? Horses are eaten in France and Dogs elsewhere and its not b/c of an out of date reason

 

[BUBBLES]

i would and i have eaten it many times, and also camel meat, eel...

dogs, rats and cats are off the menu...

 

[BrothaBill]

I understand cats are along the lines of foxes and and fur bearing animals like beaver for taste, so not likely. I've eaten groundhog and didn't care for it. Stringy and tough. Dogs are an unknown. I'd have to cross that bridge when I got to it.

yeah, again I am trying to get past the issue of taste as most meats can be prepared to taste good by an experienced chef.
The issue I am driving at is psychological and sociological

 

[musclemom]

what about dogs or cats, is there any animal you would not eat (I am trying to avoid the issue of taste)

One of those little facts that you pick up and sticks in your heads, its unhealthy as hell to eat carnivors, every toxin THEY'VE consumed in their prey is concentrated in their tissues.

 

[BrothaBill]

One of those little facts that you pick up and sticks in your heads, its unhealthy as hell to eat carnivors, every toxin THEY'VE consumed in their prey is concentrated in their tissues.

so you would not eat fish?

 

[redguru]

why as a final resort? Horses are eaten in France and Dogs elsewhere and its not b/c of an out of date reason

Because it's been a taboo for so long, mostly and it is psychological. I would eat it if asked but why, when I can get venison so readily and its much leaner than beef or horsemeat.

 

[big4life]

No, I wouldn't eat it.

Here are some facts about horse meat through out history.

http://www.igha.org/USDA.html

Horse was commonly eaten in many countries in pre-Christian Europe, but not in Islamic or Jewish countries, since under Mosaic Law horse meat is considered unclean because it conformed to the formula of an animal that was not at the same time cloven-hoofed and cud-chewing. In pre-Christian times horse meat eating in northern Europe figured prominently in Teutonic religious ceremonies, particularly those associated with the worship of the god Odin.

In 732 A.D. Pope Gregory III began a concerted effort to stop this pagan practice, and it has been said that the people of Iceland were reluctant to embrace Christianity for some time largely over the issue of giving up horse meat. In some countries the effects of this prohibition by the Catholic Church have lingered, and horse meat prejudices have progressed from taboos to avoidance to abhorrence. Today, however, horse meat is commonly consumed in many European countries.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-05-12-zito_x.htm

Ferdinand, the 1986 Kentucky Derby champion ended up in a slaughter house after being sold to a japanese group, supposedly for stud. It is presumed that he was slaughtered for human consumption.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/04/03/MNGN8I2DKN1.DTL

The three plants that operate in the United States -- two in Texas and one in Illinois, all owned by French and Belgian firms -- slaughtered 91,000 horses last year, according to USDA figures. Most of the meat is exported, although some is sold to U.S. zoos to feed their animals.

The horses often sell at auction for as little as 40 cents a pound, but they can fetch $15 per pound in the retail market. Japanese diners pay a premium for thinly sliced horse meat, grilled or served raw as carpaccio. In Antwerp, Belgium, the brasserie De Peerdestal, which means "horse stable," offers meals of "horse flesh" for $25 to $40.

 

[BrothaBill]

Because it's been a taboo for so long, mostly and it is psychological. I would eat it if asked but why, when I can get venison so readily and its much leaner than beef or horsemeat.

there are many places that it is not taboo to eat horses, bubbles has eaten it as sausage and she said its tasty and people enjoy it.
I just wonder what part of the psyche would lead someone to not eat horses

 

[redguru]

there are many places that it is not taboo to eat horses, bubbles has eaten it as sausage and she said its tasty and people enjoy it.
I just wonder what part of the psyche would lead someone to not eat horses

That could be carried one step farther, you know.

 

[musclemom]

so you would not eat fish?

Fish are not mammals, I'm no biology major but even a dummy like me knows that Reptiles and fish are different but I live north of the mason dixon so alligator and rattlesnake aren't regularly on the menu around here ...

the only predatory fish I eat is tuna, I limit it to 4 cans a month, max, and usually less, I have a problem with the mercury, causes a rash. I eat lobster and crab maybe two or three times a year.

I'd eat horsemeat if it was: a) organic or free range; b) tasted better than beef or buffalo; c) was cheaper than beef or buffalo; d) available in the united states and fell within the parameters I've listed.

I owned horses, taught horseback riding, and will spend my life in chronic pain because of the shit horses put me through they're prettier than cows, but they ain't a whole lot more intelligent, trust me.

My dumbest cat is smarter than the smartest horse, seriously.

I would never eat dogs or cats, I'm sorry, revolting. Bear meat is conceptually gross, too. I truly find the idea of eating a mammalian predator/omnivour revolting, honest to god.

 

[BrothaBill]

That could be carried one step farther, you know.

It appears that many countries have no qualms about eating it and many enjoy it

Austria

Kare is an Austrian stew made with horse meat and a variety of vegetables. The base of the dish is made from a peanut sauce (sometimes spiced), horse meat, and occasionally offal or tripe.

Dumplings can also be prepared with horse meat, spinach or Tyrolean Graukäse (a sour milk cheese). They are occasionally eaten on their own, in a soup, or as a side-dish.
[edit]

Belgium

It is widely believed that traditional Belgian fries (pommes frites) were cooked in horse fat, but in fact ox fat was used, although this has been supplanted by nut oil (considered inferior by many) for health reasons.

In Belgium, horse meat or viande de chevaline is highly prized, and is used in steak tartare. Compared to the beef equivalent, the richer flavour of the horse meat lends itself better to the pungent seasoning used in preparation. Besides being served raw, it can be broiled for a short period, with a crusty exterior and a raw, moist interior.

Smoked horse meat is very popular as breakfast and sandwich meat. The taste is sweet, hearty and the meat is low in fat content, making it a popular choice for health conscious consumers. A pan seared horse steak is a common fare for main meals in Belgium.


Canada (Quebec)

Agriculture in the province of Quebec seems to prosper under the prohibitions in the south of the border. There is a thriving horse meat business in Quebec, and horse meat is frequently available at supermarkets.


Chile

In Chile it is used in charqui.


France

In France, specialised butcher shops (boucheries chevalines) sell horsemeat, as ordinary butcher shops do not have the right to deal in it.

Germany

In Germany, horse meat is traditionally used in Sauerbraten, a strongly marinated type of sweet-sour braised meat dish, however in the last couple of decades beef has become more common.

Iceland

In Iceland it is used for fondue, but it is mostly used for stews for its strong flavour.
[edit]

Italy

In Italy, it used in a stew called Pastissada, served as horse or colt steaks, Carpaccio or made into Bresaola, and horse fat is used in recipes such as Pezzetti di Cavallo.

Japan
Basashi from Towada
Enlarge
Basashi from Towada
Horse meat-flavoured ice cream
Enlarge
Horse meat-flavoured ice cream

In Japanese cuisine, raw horse meat is called sakura (cherry blossom) because of its pink colour. It can be served raw as sashimi in thin slices dipped in soy sauce, often with ginger and onions added. In this case, it is called basashi (Japanese: 馬刺し, ばさし). Fat, typically from the neck, is also found as basashi, though it is white, not pink. Horse meat is also sometimes found on menus for yakiniku (a type of barbecue), where it is called baniku (lit., horse meat) or bagushi (lit., skewered horse); thin slices of raw horse meat are sometimes served wrapped in a shiso leaf.

Kumamoto and Matsumoto are famous for basashi, and it is common in the Tohoku region and other rural regions as well, though basashi restaurants can be found all over Japan.

There is also a dessert made from horse meat called Basashi ice cream. The company that makes it is known for its unusual ice cream flavours, many of which have limited popularity.
[edit]

Kazakhstan

In Kazakhstan many parts of a horse are used with the meat usually being salted, dried and smoked[5]. Some of the dishes include sausages called kazy and shuzhuk made from the meat using the guts as the sausage skin, zhaya made from hip meat which is smoked and boiled, zhal made from neck fat which is smoked and boiled, karta made from a section of the rectum which is smoked and boiled, and sur-yet which is kept as dried meat.
[edit]

The Netherlands

In the Netherlands, a popular breakfast sliced meat is smoked horsemeat (paardenrookvlees).




Portugal


Romania


Spain

Ground meat is made into a pattie that is fried and served in a roll.


Sweden


Switzerland

In Switzerland horse meat may be used in Fondue bourguignonne.

 

[BUBBLES]

That could be carried one step farther, you know.

lol, no seriously i ate salami made out of horse meat and the practice of horse consumption like big4life said was well known in Europe; north, south, east..

 

[BrothaBill]

Not much meat there...

Incidentally, that is what I told my daughter. She is particularly slender. I told her that I would have to fatten her up before we ever went somewhere were we might end up shipwrecked LOL

would you have a problem eating human meat? The practice of cannibalism is or was not taboo in certain cultures, consuming the flesh of a rival tribesman some felt they would gain their energy or consume a departed family member.
Its not as prevalent b/c of the creutzfeldt-jakob disease and other prion transmission that they learned about

 

[hotzie]

id eat any kind of animal , minus the opossum

 

[BrothaBill]

Fish are not mammals, I'm no biology major but even a dummy like me knows that Reptiles and fish are different but I live north of the mason dixon so alligator and rattlesnake aren't regularly on the menu around here ...

the only predatory fish I eat is tuna, I limit it to 4 cans a month, max, and usually less, I have a problem with the mercury, causes a rash. I eat lobster and crab maybe two or three times a year.

I'd eat horsemeat if it was: a) organic or free range; b) tasted better than beef or buffalo; c) was cheaper than beef or buffalo; d) available in the united states and fell within the parameters I've listed.

I owned horses, taught horseback riding, and will spend my life in chronic pain because of the shit horses put me through they're prettier than cows, but they ain't a whole lot more intelligent, trust me.

My dumbest cat is smarter than the smartest horse, seriously.

I would never eat dogs or cats, I'm sorry, revolting. Bear meat is conceptually gross, too. I truly find the idea of eating a mammalian predator/omnivour revolting, honest to god.

so you have a problem with eating certain mammals? We are talking about the source of the protein you consume.
It can come from a variety of places. Why limit them?
I disagree with how smart horses are having raised them myself but is that a deciding factor for you is how smart you perceive an animal to be whether to consume it?

 

[BrothaBill]

id eat any kind of animal , minus the opossum

would you eat the 3 for 1$ tacos in Tijuana?

 

[BUBBLES]

would you have a problem eating human meat? The practice of cannibalism is or was not taboo in certain cultures, consuming the flesh of a rival tribesman some felt they would gain their energy or consume a departed family member.
Its not as prevalent b/c of the creutzfeldt-jakob disease and other prion transmission that they learned about

that is a good question
i would definately have a problem consuming human meat and i find it disgusting but here is a thought that crossed my mind

while people make food pieces of skin are left in the food becuase they do not always use gloves therefore i am sure we have eaten human remains unknowingly....

 

[rsnobleimbackagain]

if it tastes good eat it

 

[musclemom]

so you have a problem with eating certain mammals? We are talking about the source of the protein you consume.
It can come from a variety of places. Why limit them?
I disagree with how smart horses are having raised them myself but is that a deciding factor for you is how smart you perceive an animal to be whether to consume it?

No, Bill, TOXINS. I have environmental allergies, which I know conventional medicine does not acknowledge as a legitimate illness but since I live with it and I know it's real. I'm particularly susceptible to pesticides, steroids, and heavy metals.

My point about a horses stupidity (and they are very fucking stupid animals) is that why eat cows and not eat horses? because horses are "PRETTY" and cows, to most people, AREN'T. Why do people object to venison, BAMBI, c'mon.

If you deny that carnivors and omnivors are concentrating toxins then you're being unreasonable. No, I can't drag out chapter and verse, but ancient people did not eat carnivors.

But if we're going to say "you eat somethings and not others," c'mon we all have our personal preferences, I won't touch Okra, find that shit revolting too. I LOVE broccoli, could eat it by the pound, how many people don't like that, c'mon

If you know where I can get free range meat for less than $4.00 a pound, hey, point me. I like venison, antelope, buffalo, had rabbit, thought it tasted like shit, frankly. Always wanted to try horse, snake and allegator, actually.

LIMITING my sources of protein is not the problem, availability is. And you do not live with my health problems, and those in your profession deny their existance and that's just a snake eating it's tail so we ain't going there

Peace, I'm not in the mood to bicker.

 

[BrothaBill]

No, Bill, TOXINS. I have environmental allergies, which I know conventional medicine does not acknowledge as a legitimate illness but since I live with it and I know it's real. I'm particularly susceptible to pesticides, steroids, and heavy metals.

My point about a horses stupidity (and they are very fucking stupid animals) is that why eat cows and not eat horses? because horses are "PRETTY" and cows, to most people, AREN'T. Why do people object to venison, BAMBI, c'mon.

If you deny that carnivors and omnivors are concentrating toxins then you're being unreasonable. No, I can't drag out chapter and verse, but ancient people did not eat carnivors.

But if we're going to say "you eat somethings and not others," c'mon we all have our personal preferences, I won't touch Okra, find that shit revolting too. I LOVE broccoli, could eat it by the pound, how many people don't like that, c'mon

If you know where I can get free range meat for less than $4.00 a pound, hey, point me. I like venison, antelope, buffalo, had rabbit, thought it tasted like shit, frankly. Always wanted to try horse, snake and allegator, actually.

LIMITING my sources of protein is not the problem, availability is. And you do not live with my health problems, and those in your profession deny their existance and that's just a snake eating it's tail so we ain't going there

Peace, I'm not in the mood to bicker.

no Im not trying to bicker, I am just trying to move a discussion along by asking probing questions to flush out people's views.

The key thing I am driving at is what judgements or criteria people use to decide which animals to eat.
People make fun of Hindus for not eating cows for example or other xenophobic tendencies.

For purposes of the discussion I am trying to get past reasons people come up with to get to the heart of the matter. The issue of toxins is not what I am interested in talking about, if you like we can say just say hypothetically all the animals have been farm-raised on the same noncarnivorous diet and as I told Redguru, I want to move past issues of "taste" as a reason as well. For that matter cost, those are all variable we can control for and really are distracting and impediments to getting at the moral and ethical discussion so lets not get hung up on them

Should we allow all animals to be used for food in the US or should we make some animal meats illegal? How would you define the criteria that should be used to determine which animal meat is allowed?

 

[hotzie]

would you eat the 3 for 1$ tacos in Tijuana?

i ate some shit like that in el salvador ....i had the shits for three weeks

 

[BrothaBill]

i ate some shit like that in el salvador ....i had the shits for three weeks

I had a friend break up with his girlfriend who was from Mexico b/c after he was intimate with her he'd have diarrhea for three days afterwards

 

[hotzie]

I had a friend break up with his girlfriend who was from Mexico b/c after he was intimate with her he'd have diarrhea for three days afterwards

lol dont eat the fish from mexico lolol

 

[HumorMe]

I would eat it maybe once or twice. That's it though. The weirdest meat I've eaten is moose or elk. Can't remember which one. It was in Aspen.

I ate some elkabobs the other night and they were great. Don't kow if I could eat horse though.

 

[BrothaBill]

I ate some elkabobs the other night and they were great. Don't kow if I could eat horse though.

now thats the question I am asking, what is [it] that may prevent you from eating horse or other meats you have learned were taboo?

 

[musclemom]

no Im not trying to bicker, I am just trying to move a discussion along by asking probing questions to flush out people's views.

The key thing I am driving at is what judgements or criteria people use to decide which animals to eat.
People make fun of Hindus for not eating cows for example or other xenophobic tendencies.

For purposes of the discussion I am trying to get past reasons people come up with to get to the heart of the matter. The issue of toxins is not what I am interested in talking about, if you like we can say just say hypothetically all the animals have been farm-raised on the same noncarnivorous diet and as I told Redguru, I want to move past issues of "taste" as a reason as well.

Should we allow all animals to be used for food in the US or should we make some animal meats illegal? How would you define the criteria that should be used to determine which animal meat is allowed?

Take it as I'm saying it, this discussion is sorta silly in a country where it's illegal to grow a perfectly useful industrial/food crop like hemp, I'm sorry. Hemp and marijuana are NOT the same plant, botanically related, but NOT the same ... why is alcohol legal and smoking marijuana is not but tobacco is, c'mon we live in a country of hypocricy and flat out unreasonable prejudices.

For me, logic is pretty simple, carnivores do not eat carnivores, wolves do not eat weaker wolves, cougars do not kill and eat wolves, lions do not eat cheetahs and hyenas. Kill, that's different, EAT, uh uh.

Why do carnivores choose not to eat other carnivores? Because the meat smells bad.

"Man-eater" are anomalies in the animal kingdom. Humans smell and taste like shit, for the most part to animals with keener senses. We offend them -- yes I know this as a fact so there

You wear predators, you eat herbivores, that's the way of nature.

My barn cats would not eat rats (those really big muthers with bodies nearly 12" long) they would tear their throats out but they would not eat them, they left them for us to find. They ate field mice, birds, and baby rats, but not big rats, not even the stomach. Mother nature ain't stupid, there's an old saying that cats won't drink bad water either ...

 

[HumorMe]

now thats the question I am asking, what is [it] that may prevent you from eating horse or other meats you have learned were taboo?

It would take a lot of coaxing for me to eat a slab of horse. Mental block.

 

[hotzie]

fuck that fry me some mister ed up

 

[BrothaBill]

Take it as I'm saying it, this discussion is sorta silly in a country where it's illegal to grow a perfectly useful industrial/food crop like hemp, I'm sorry. Hemp and marijuana are NOT the same plant, botanically related, but NOT the same ... why is alcohol legal and smoking marijuana is not but tobacco is, c'mon we live in a country of hypocricy and flat out unreasonable prejudices.

For me, logic is pretty simple, carnivores do not eat carnivores, wolves do not eat weaker wolves, cougars do not kill and eat wolves, lions do not eat cheetahs and hyenas. Kill, that's different, EAT, uh uh.

Why do carnivores choose not to eat other carnivores? Because the meat smells bad.

"Man-eater" are anomalies in the animal kingdom. Humans smell and taste like shit, for the most part to animals with keener senses. We offend them -- yes I know this as a fact so there

You wear predators, you eat herbivores, that's the way of nature.

My barn cats would not eat rats (those really big muthers with bodies nearly 12" long) they would tear their throats out but they would not eat them, they left them for us to find. They ate field mice, birds, and baby rats, but not big rats, not even the stomach. Mother nature ain't stupid, there's an old saying that cats won't drink bad water either ...

I think we are going in two different directions here.
I am trying to get at the reasons why people would follow a cultural taboo on a certain meat that is perfectly acceptable in other countries.

Its a query on member's on the forum and their decision making thought processes as to what they deem as acceptable or unacceptable. I am looking at their cognition as they think through the question I am raising. Its an internal question that can only be answered by each person as they think about it.

The external stuff you are referring to is what I am trying to eliminate or control for in order to find out their cognitive statements on the issue. I am not trying to discount what you are saying but its not what I am trying to drive at with this thread. It may seem silly but I am curious as to how people rationalize taboos particularly those who are xenophobic and how they justify that cognitive dissonance I am trying to bring out

 

[redguru]

BBill, as I said before take it a step further, it is a cultural taboo not to eat human flesh. There are some cultures where this was a practiced ritual. By the reasoning you just gave, it is rational to do so.

 

[musclemom]

I think we are going in two different directions here.
I am trying to get at the reasons why people would follow a cultural taboo on a certain meat that is perfectly acceptable in other countries.

Its a query on member's on the forum and their decision making thought processes as to what they deem as acceptable or unacceptable. I am looking at their cognition as they think through the question I am raising. Its an internal question that can only be answered by each person as they think about it.

The external stuff you are referring to is what I am trying to eliminate or control for in order to find out their cognitive statements on the issue. I am not trying to discount what you are saying but its not what I am trying to drive at with this thread. It may seem silly but I am curious as to how people rationalize taboos particularly those who are xenophobic and how they justify that cognitive dissonance I am trying to bring out

You're right and I applaud you recognizing that divergence ...

I must bow out of this discussion after this post because as the days pass I progressively find myself losing step with societal norms it is what it is *sigh*

One final thought, the vast majority of people do things "because that's what you do." They don't question it, because ... well, it's what's done. Sheep don't question, they just hit the fence and don't look for an opening, they can't think abstractly, that there is no opening HERE but maybe there is one THERE; horses do not run OUT of a burning barn, they often fight to stay in their stall even with burning rafters crashing down on them, they hold to the place that to them represents security. The vast majority of humans are no different, simply put, I don't eat shit I wasn't brought up eating. My dad/mom didn't eat that shit, I ain't about to start eating that shit now.

Doesn't matter whether it's good, healthy or whatnot. Fighting the tide of acceptable thought is not in human nature.

 

[coldblue1955]

And please dont fuck up my thread with bringing up seals. I was curious, I was just surfing the internet about the UN and somehow got to torture on wikipedia. THey listed all of the torture methods for humans (read some) and one was starvation. So I followed that to see what info on fasting it had.
Then it had a link to taboo foods and I was reading some info on cultures and their taboos, i.e. Hindus and the sacred cow etc...

So that wiki page about taboos and forbidden foods and cultures said that in the US, Australia and the UK that horsemeat was generally taboo but enjoys popularity in other countries, i.e. France.


Its lean and high in protein like Buffalo meat, would you eat it (assuming that it tasted more or less like beef of course for purposes of discussion)??

If not, why not? Serious answers only please

only if there's nothing else to eat in the entire world.

 

[Hiatussin]

HM

fresh red horse carpaccio. Had that the last two new years eves. The standard appetizer in the better Belgian restaurants. served with some veggies, and some pepper.

I have eaten

cow
pig
chicken
turkey
goose
hare
rabbit
duck
ostrich
kangaroo
horse
deer
buffalo
bore
sheep
crocodile
frog
tuna
salmon
cod
shrimp
lobster
catfish
herring
eal
sardine
shark
grouse
squid
octopus
oyster
mussels
snail
seasnail
grasshopper

Probably forgetting stuff.

I have eaten horse and will again, no problem there. They have so much muscle tissue, it´s good.

I really want to try human meat some time. Just out of a marquis de sade-like, - told you the world wouldn´t end if I do it- motivation.

To do list
swan
human
snake
swordfish

I´m still unsure if I want to eat whale or seal. That´s just kind of malicious, whales being endangered and all. they´re both all fat anyway

 

[GoldenDelicious]

have done so, will do so again. dont you guys eat mortadella?

 

[Hiatussin]

One of those little facts that you pick up and sticks in your heads, its unhealthy as hell to eat carnivors, every toxin THEY'VE consumed in their prey is concentrated in their tissues.

TOXINS



lol.

Do you think the beef you buy in the supermarket was raised on grass?
cows in contemporary bio industry eat their own. and anything else they can find that has digestable protein, carbs or fat in it. including used up deepfrying fat, failed batches of cookies, flour that´s gone bad.

Two years ago a corporation in Belgium that makes cattle food got in trouble when their food suddenly contained too much sulphur dioxide. Turned out they were adding old used motor oil to the mix. They didn´t check the oil for SO2.

That´s the reality of bio industry. THEY ARE NOT EATING usable foods that the third world could be eating like fucking hippies say. Whatever they were meant to eat by nature is only important if they were raised in the wild. any body that can digest grass, which is all cellulose, can digest meat very very easily.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

TOXINS



lol.

Do you think the beef you buy in the supermarket was raised on grass?
cows in contemporary bio industry eat their own. and anything else they can find that has digestable protein, carbs or fat in it. including used up deepfrying fat, failed batches of cookies, flour that´s gone bad.

Two years ago a corporation in Belgium that makes cattle food got in trouble when their food suddenly contained too much sulphur dioxide. Turned out they were adding old used motor oil to the mix. They didn´t check the oil for SO2.

That´s the reality of bio industry. THEY ARE NOT EATING usable foods that the third world could be eating like fucking hippies say. Whatever they were meant to eat by nature is only important if they were raised in the wild. any body that can digest grass, which is all cellulose, can digest meat very very easily.

true enough but you wont get the heavy metals you get in high end carnivores that you get in domestic cattle, regardless of foodstock.

 

[BrothaBill]

BBill, as I said before take it a step further, it is a cultural taboo not to eat human flesh. There are some cultures where this was a practiced ritual. By the reasoning you just gave, it is rational to do so.

I gave no reasoning, I merely raised questions to elicit thought out responses on the subject from a different perspectives

 

[Hiatussin]

http://www.bluejake.com/images03/misc/2003_5_kangaroo.jpg

kangaroo steak

http://www.kleinkaroomeat.com/images/vleis1.jpg

ostrich

http://www.ecotao.com/Crocodile/tail.jpg

crocodile

http://www.nh-hft.co.jp/english/img/basashi03.jpg

Horse



I wonder if you can taste the difference in human meat between genders, races, body types, ages etc

On one hand, the most desirable meat to eat would be that of the more attractive young woman. On the other hand, you´d be killing a perfectly fine young woman just to eat her once, it´s decadent.

Dilemma´s. I guess I´m important enough to do something like that though. Besides, we could take a very poor hot young girl. Like from South America or maybe Thailand or something. I´d want a bloody steak at least. It would be good if we just gut her and grill her as such, like you would a chicken. That way it still looks like a fried hot girl on the table. Take off the head in the kitchen though, I just want her burnt face on the table. I bet you could stick a turkey thermometer up her butt.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

okay hiatussin you are no longer allowed to be a doctor

 

[Hiatussin]

I wonder if you can taste the difference in human meat between genders, races, body types, ages etc

On one hand, the most desirable meat to eat would be that of the more attractive young woman. On the other hand, you´d be killing a perfectly fine young woman just to eat her once, it´s decadent.

Dilemma´s. I guess I´m important enough to do something like that though. Besides, we could take a very poor hot young girl. Like from South America or maybe Thailand or something. I´d want a bloody steak at least. It would be good if we just gut her and grill her as such, like you would a chicken. That way it still looks like a fried hot girl on the table. Take off the head in the kitchen though, I just want her burnt face on the table. I bet you could stick a turkey thermometer up her butt.

I want to see another hottie eat it too. while drinking red whine, barely dressed.

She´d comment on how soft and good the buttock meat is, and I´d remind I´d slapped that ass supple myself.

I´d love those quads too. With creamy pepper sauce. god fuck yeah.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

someone call the cops

 

[michaeltt]

hitatussin, you remind me of the guy from germany who ate his lover. Alot of similarities.
you should see a shrink.

 

[Hiatussin]

okay hiatussin you are no longer allowed to be a doctor

I am scaring myself. that came from somewhere.

You´re mistaking about doctors though

We´re all kind of sick. think about it-
we study longer and harder, work more hours and go through more stress than lawyers, and usually make less money. Why do we do it?

It´s an obsession with morbid details about the human body and manipulating it, that starts at a young age.

It´s known that statistically, for one indicator, there´s no profession with as high an occurrence of Bondage-SM fetishes as in the medical branch. We´re either saints who want to help good spirits for god, or predators who want to indulge upon the idea, as we know from the history of the clergy, the two are never far apart.

 

[michaeltt]

I want to see another hottie eat it too. while drinking red whine, barely dressed.

She´d comment on how soft and good the buttock meat is, and I´d remind I´d slapped that ass supple myself.

I´d love those quads too. With creamy pepper sauce. god fuck yeah.

combining cannibilism and necrophelia are we? sick sick sick

 

[Hiatussin]

combining cannibilism and necrophelia are we? sick sick sick

You know I used to be really into Sadomasochism, bestiality, and necrophilia- Then I realised I was just beating a dead horse.


HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAAA

 

[Wulfgar]

Im actually a HUGE fan of buffalo meat
almost no fat and no bloating

 

[Hiatussin]

hitatussin, you remind me of the guy from germany who ate his lover. Alot of similarities.
you should see a shrink.

I told my gf I´d eat her before. She laughs and says I´m bluffing.

 

[Hiatussin]

It´s easy to write sweaty words about anything (to me, anyway) I could write about bestiality too, I´m not really into that.

I think I´d eat human meat if I knew the person was healthy and was not killed for the purpose of dinner.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

I am scaring myself. that came from somewhere.

You´re mistaking about doctors though

We´re all kind of sick. think about it-
we study longer and harder, work more hours and go through more stress than lawyers, and usually make less money. Why do we do it?

It´s an obsession with morbid details about the human body and manipulating it, that starts at a young age.

It´s known that statistically, for one indicator, there´s no profession with as high an occurrence of Bondage-SM fetishes as in the medical branch. We´re either saints who want to help good spirits for god, or predators who want to indulge upon the idea, as we know from the history of the clergy, the two are never far apart.

im not talking about doctors, im talking about you...taht was twisted bor, see a shrink

 

[Hiatussin]

Take it as I'm saying it, this discussion is sorta silly in a country where it's illegal to grow a perfectly useful industrial/food crop like hemp, I'm sorry. Hemp and marijuana are NOT the same plant, botanically related, but NOT the same ... why is alcohol legal and smoking marijuana is not but tobacco is, c'mon we live in a country of hypocricy and flat out unreasonable prejudices.

For me, logic is pretty simple, carnivores do not eat carnivores, wolves do not eat weaker wolves, cougars do not kill and eat wolves, lions do not eat cheetahs and hyenas. Kill, that's different, EAT, uh uh.

Why do carnivores choose not to eat other carnivores? Because the meat smells bad.

"Man-eater" are anomalies in the animal kingdom. Humans smell and taste like shit, for the most part to animals with keener senses. We offend them -- yes I know this as a fact so there

You wear predators, you eat herbivores, that's the way of nature.

My barn cats would not eat rats (those really big muthers with bodies nearly 12" long) they would tear their throats out but they would not eat them, they left them for us to find. They ate field mice, birds, and baby rats, but not big rats, not even the stomach. Mother nature ain't stupid, there's an old saying that cats won't drink bad water either ...

You know nothing of biology.
Regardless of the fact that animal and nature behaviour is a poor example for human morality, your statements about animals are false.

Many animals eat their own. Chimpansees, for instance. Chimps are known to rape, kill and eat competition. Spiders. rats.

Then the statement that predators don´t eat predators. Hawks eat smaller birds, birds eat bugs, no?

Seal eats fish, killer whale eats seal?

Do you really think a vulture (who lives off the dead, even the not so fresh dead, even dead predators, even not so fresh dead predators) would let a perfectly fine dead fellow vulture just lie there and rot? That´s dinner.

 

[musclemom]

You know nothing of biology.
Regardless of the fact that animal and nature behaviour is a poor example for human morality, your statements about animals are false.

Many animals eat their own. Chimpansees, for instance. Chimps are known to rape, kill and eat competition. Spiders. rats.

Then the statement that predators don´t eat predators. Hawks eat smaller birds, birds eat bugs, no?

Seal eats fish, killer whale eats seal?

Do you really think a vulture (who lives off the dead, even the not so fresh dead, even dead predators, even not so fresh dead predators) would let a perfectly fine dead fellow vulture just lie there and rot? That´s dinner.

I suspect I know more of animal psychology than you will ever know about yourself little boy.

PREDATORS, Chimps are not predators. They are humans with more fur and less laws. They are disgusting nasty, vulgar animals; no other animal rapes, either, humans and chimps, the winners. Any other animal, the female chooses and if she refuses that's it, deals over. No other animal plays with it's own shit, either.

You see the world black and white, I see it gray.

Water dwellers are not the same as land dwellers, to begin with ...

Yeah, there are exceptions, but they are rare, polar bears eat seals who eat fish ... hawks who eat birds who eat insects ...

You can't discuss carrion eaters in the same breath with a predator. Granted, some predators will eat some carrion but they will not generally seek it out, and they cannot live on it. Predators mostly start on the insides, consuming the digestive tract and its contents and other internal organs first, leaving the muscle meat for last because it's the least nutritive overall.

But for the most part, predators do not stalk, hunt, kill and consume other predators, by choice.

 

[Sub-Zero]

I would eat it, no problem.

I've eaten shark, gator, buffalo, kangaroo, frogs, snails, squid... I have no issue eating anything if it tastes good to me.

True story:

The other day one of my kids asked me a ridiculous question. "Mami, if we were all on a deserted island and we (meaning her and her sisters) died, would you eat us?"

I looked her dead in the face and answered, "Without a doubt."

LOL

you would eat their genitals first i bet, you sick fuck

 

[Sub-Zero]

ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY.

I've had venison and rabbit. I dont see how one animal is different than any other. If it tastes good to me then I would eat it. period

iv had xxx xxxxx xxx xx x x x x x x xx x x, im so fucking cool, look at me everyone!

 

[hotzie]

iv had xxx xxxxx xxx xx x x x x x x xx x x, im so fucking cool, look at me everyone!

i bet she has had sexx wiht a horse

 

[Sub-Zero]

i bet she has had sexx wiht a horse

yeah, and the horse was on the recieving end

 

[hotzie]

yeah, and the horse was on the recieving end

lololololol

 

[Hiatussin]

PREDATORS, Chimps are not predators. They are humans with more fur and less laws. They are disgusting nasty, vulgar animals; no other animal rapes, either, humans and chimps, the winners. Any other animal, the female chooses and if she refuses that's it, deals over. No other animal plays with it's own shit, either.

Animals (only that I happen to know of) that rape-

Chimps

ducks (they have GANG rapes, all the males pick and pin her down until she
submits, this is violent and takes a long time. I have seen it happen. It´s actually the only way they procreate)

spiders (they also eat their male and then the kids eat the mom)

Dolphins (they are also often bisexual or even homosexual and will even rape out of anger, rather than only procreation)

As for poop-

Pigs play with their shit. They roll around in it. Even when they have room to avoid it.

Rabbits re-eat their shit.

Dogs eat their own and other dogs´ shit.

Elephants eat their parents shit to obtain the metabolic bacteria they need in their guts.

Gorilla´s re-eat their shit, they also eat their sperm after they masturbate.

Babboons throw poop at other animals.

Also- since this thread is about horses- here´s a bit on horses and their POOP


Arabian mares seem to be more predisposed to rejection of foals than Thoroughbreds, with the presence of one of two related sires being statistically higher in the pedigrees of rejecting versus non-rejecting mares (Juarbe-Diaz et al., 1998). Fostering is difficult and the mare probably recognises her foal by smell, visual and auditory cues. When attempting to foster a foal, it is advisable to mask an introduced foal’s odour by smearing it with the prospective surrogate dam’s own milk and applying her own faeces to the tail and head of the foal. It also helps to apply vaporous ointments to the nostrils of nurse mares prior to the removal of their own foals (Kelly, 1999). It has been reported (Tyler, 1972) that a mare accepted an orphaned foal draped in the skin of the mare’s dead three-year-old filly. Mares accept foals within 1 to 12 hours of an introduction but it is not advisable to leave the pair unsupervised until they have been together for three days (Kelly, 1999). Coprophagy (eating faeces) is normal in foals and commonly occurs at 4–6 weeks of age, possibly as a means of learning preferred forage types (Crowell-Davis, & Caudle, 1989).

There you go, nice poop playing for the whole family.

You are an emotional thinker, not a rational one, you should stick to speaking your own language.

 

[itlnstln]

And please dont fuck up my thread with bringing up seals. I was curious, I was just surfing the internet about the UN and somehow got to torture on wikipedia. THey listed all of the torture methods for humans (read some) and one was starvation. So I followed that to see what info on fasting it had.
Then it had a link to taboo foods and I was reading some info on cultures and their taboos, i.e. Hindus and the sacred cow etc...

So that wiki page about taboos and forbidden foods and cultures said that in the US, Australia and the UK that horsemeat was generally taboo but enjoys popularity in other countries, i.e. France.


Its lean and high in protein like Buffalo meat, would you eat it (assuming that it tasted more or less like beef of course for purposes of discussion)??

If not, why not? Serious answers only please

Why not?

I eat Ostrich breast all the time - it's the Red-Meat Poultry.

 

[theoak01]

i initially thought no,but i figure i would

 

[seizer]

Naw. Beef, chicken and and the norms work fine for me. If they sold it and I did like, I still probably wouldnt buy it because I dont really see any special reason to eat a horse.

Speaking of which...I'm starving, I feel like I could eat a horse

 

[chewyxrage]

Hmm I'm curious now as to what it tastes like.

Wikipedia is amazing, btw. I'm lost hours of my time just reading and clicking through the hypertext links, from article to article.

 

[Hiatussin]

Hmm I'm curious now as to what it tastes like.

Wikipedia is amazing, btw. I'm lost hours of my time just reading and clicking through the hypertext links, from article to article.

Yes, it is amazing. You really should also check out www.rotten.com/library. It´s the same system, they are great articles. No gross pics like on the main site.

 

[chewyxrage]

Yes, it is amazing. You really should also check out www.rotten.com/library. It´s the same system, they are great articles. No gross pics like on the main site.

Wow, that is pretty interesting. I'm reading the history of gang bangs right now


http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/group-sex/gang-bang/

 

[redguru]

Why not?

I eat Ostrich breast all the time - it's the Red-Meat Poultry.

What's the difference in price between Ostrich and Emu breast versus Chicken and Turkey?

 

[Hiatussin]

Wow, that is pretty interesting. I'm reading the history of gang bangs right now


http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/group-sex/gang-bang/

they have serious, insightful, and well researched articles too.

 

[redguru]

Tell any of the roid monkeys that it'll give them 2 more lbs of lean mass gains per cycle. They'll be out tackling horses and chewing at thier hind quarters.

 

[musclemom]

Animals (only that I happen to know of) that rape-

Chimps

ducks (they have GANG rapes, all the males pick and pin her down until she
submits, this is violent and takes a long time. I have seen it happen. It´s actually the only way they procreate)

spiders (they also eat their male and then the kids eat the mom)

Dolphins (they are also often bisexual or even homosexual and will even rape out of anger, rather than only procreation)

As for poop-

Pigs play with their shit. They roll around in it. Even when they have room to avoid it.

Rabbits re-eat their shit.

Dogs eat their own and other dogs´ shit.

Elephants eat their parents shit to obtain the metabolic bacteria they need in their guts.

Gorilla´s re-eat their shit, they also eat their sperm after they masturbate.

Babboons throw poop at other animals.

Also- since this thread is about horses- here´s a bit on horses and their POOP


Arabian mares seem to be more predisposed to rejection of foals than Thoroughbreds, with the presence of one of two related sires being statistically higher in the pedigrees of rejecting versus non-rejecting mares (Juarbe-Diaz et al., 1998). Fostering is difficult and the mare probably recognises her foal by smell, visual and auditory cues. When attempting to foster a foal, it is advisable to mask an introduced foal’s odour by smearing it with the prospective surrogate dam’s own milk and applying her own faeces to the tail and head of the foal. It also helps to apply vaporous ointments to the nostrils of nurse mares prior to the removal of their own foals (Kelly, 1999). It has been reported (Tyler, 1972) that a mare accepted an orphaned foal draped in the skin of the mare’s dead three-year-old filly. Mares accept foals within 1 to 12 hours of an introduction but it is not advisable to leave the pair unsupervised until they have been together for three days (Kelly, 1999). Coprophagy (eating faeces) is normal in foals and commonly occurs at 4–6 weeks of age, possibly as a means of learning preferred forage types (Crowell-Davis, & Caudle, 1989).

There you go, nice poop playing for the whole family.

You are an emotional thinker, not a rational one, you should stick to speaking your own language.

Took you all fucking day to research that, didn't it

The rabbit thing I knew and they have to eat certain of their "feces" (actually the feces they're eating are not true fecal matter, it's called cecotropes and has a totally different consistency than the round pellets they normally defecate).

No, I'm talking how chimps will shit on their hand and throw it AT each other, or people, or anything that annoys them. Not other things like dogs eating crap (well, they're dogs, c'mon, not cats for heaven's sake). And gorillas ... well, apes, again, are nothing but furrier people with less laws.

And I did say before, in the animal kingdom there is overlap in behavior, just because a few species do it, does not make it common or normal. And doing thing because it has a metabolic/nutritional imperative doesn't count at all.

Dolphins will also fuck humans if given the right circumstances, so they ain't too right in the head when it comes to sex, either.

Stop telling me what kind of a person I am or am not, and stop telling me what kind of arguments I can or cannot hold my own in. You're a medical student, I'd expect your ass to rattle shit like this off in your sleep, yet you have to go and research this shit then come back and "put me in my place" on an internet message board. I'm going from what I've learned, and my own experiences.

How does Wootoom put it ... congratulations, you think you won an argument on the internet, feel better?

 

[chewyxrage]

That thing posted about Ducks is true, I saw it at a park. I was pretty shocked, and I watched it go on for about 10 minutes. 2 males completely attacking this female. My general reaction was "WTF!"

Did not expect to roll up on that.

 

[Hiatussin]

Took you all fucking day to research that, didn't it

Stop telling me what kind of a person I am or am not, and stop telling me what kind of arguments I can or cannot hold my own in. You're a medical student, I'd expect your ass to rattle shit like this off in your sleep, yet you have to go and research this shit then come back and "put me in my place" on an internet message board. I'm going from what I've learned, and my own experiences.

took me a few minutes actually. I only looked up the horse thing, which was only one google search away. I´m also only a beginning med student, currently studying human anatomy and cell biology, not the way animals fuck.

I´m not the one who is overdoing this fued we seem to have with great motivation. I am to you a representative of some things you dislike

-doctors
-men
-your rational ex

I would not be thinking about this stuff at all if I didn´t have an interest in animal behaviour to start with.

 

[Hiatussin]

That thing posted about Ducks is true, I saw it at a park. I was pretty shocked, and I watched it go on for about 10 minutes. 2 males completely attacking this female. My general reaction was "WTF!"

Did not expect to roll up on that.

It´s harsh and desillusioning. I dwell on that sort of thing. Like when you first find out that when the birds sing in spring, what they´re communicating is in fact "Go away, this is my place, stay out" as they are marking territory.

People like to think they´re singing Beethoven´s "Ode To Joy".

 

[hotzie]

 

[BrothaBill]

That thing posted about Ducks is true, I saw it at a park. I was pretty shocked, and I watched it go on for about 10 minutes. 2 males completely attacking this female. My general reaction was "WTF!"

Did not expect to roll up on that.

 

[BrothaBill]

 

[musclemom]

took me a few minutes actually. I only looked up the horse thing, which was only one google search away. I´m also only a beginning med student, currently studying human anatomy and cell biology, not the way animals fuck.

I´m not the one who is overdoing this fued we seem to have with great motivation. I am to you a representative of some things you dislike

-doctors
-men
-your rational ex

I would not be thinking about this stuff at all if I didn´t have an interest in animal behaviour to start with.

You are the one who dislikes, or at least disrespects, WOMEN, I happen to like men, at least mature men. I'm a happily married person. Whereas you have a sometimes girlfried you like to fuck whom you cannot quantify how you feel (probably because you seriously lack normal emotions) who you think may or may not have given you herpes but whom, in reality, you probably infected.

You're the one bringing up my ex and doctors.

If you have an interest in animal behavior how many animals have you ever owned? Seriously, I got a bet with myself on this on Hiatt, how many animals have you ever owned? I'm betting I got more animals living in my house, right now, than you ever owned in your entire life, I probably have more within 20 feet of me

Living with the animals or spending LONG amounts of time with them intimately is a helluva lot more instructional than reading any book, ask Diane Fosse.

The duck rape is interesting, really, I learned something ... I wonder if those are mated females? If not, it explains why drakes are so damn protective and will shuttle their female away from groups and make her haul ass into the air if they feel there are too many males in the pond. But ducks are not mammals. And the dolphin thing ... dolphins will also apparently commit senseless murder, they're way more like us in a lot of ways than people suspect.

Dude, with regard to a feud, that's all you. You just have to ignore me baby. You're the one who likes to find fault with everything I say instead of just going, yeah, you're full of shit musclemom and you know it

So grow up, little boy, stop going around trying to prove to everyone how much more stupid they are than you if they show a modicum of human emotion.
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... and your sense of humor blows donkey dick, BTW

 

[Hiatussin]

If you have an interest in animal behavior how many animals have you ever owned? Seriously, I got a bet with myself on this on Hiatt, how many animals have you ever owned? I'm betting I got more animals living in my house, right now, than you ever owned in your entire life, I probably have more within 20 feet of me

Living with the animals or spending LONG amounts of time with them intimately is a helluva lot more instructional than reading any book, ask Diane Fosse.

I owned about 5 animals or so. I´ll admit I never particularly cared for them except for the one cat that still lives with my parents. I enjoyed analysing him and seeing what he does and doesn´t understand. Even down to such cute questions as why cats pur. It´s a male pedigree Havana Brown Siamese, if you´re wondering. http://www.moggies.co.uk/breeds/havana_brown.jpg

Diane Fosse and Jane Goodall are really kind, passionate, beautiful people. I don´t really see how they have anything to do with this discussion, or your point which seems to be that animals are more moral than people, despite the harshness of nature.

I gave some examples of cruel animals and you´re basically saying that they don´t count, since they are almost as smart as humans. I´m not very impressed by high "morality" brought about by stupidity and a lacking of consciousness to even be immoral with in the first place.

 

[musclemom]

I owned about 5 animals or so. I´ll admit I never particularly cared for them except for the one cat that still lives with my parents. I enjoyed analysing him and seeing what he does and doesn´t understand. Even down to such cute questions as why cats pur. It´s a male pedigree Havana Brown Siamese, if you´re wondering. http://www.moggies.co.uk/breeds/havana_brown.jpg

Diane Fosse and Jane Goodall are really kind, passionate, beautiful people. I don´t really see how they have anything to do with this discussion, or your point which seems to be that animals are more moral than people, despite the harshness of nature.

I gave some examples of cruel animals and you´re basically saying that they don´t count, since they are almost as smart as humans. I´m not very impressed by high "morality" brought about by stupidity and a lacking of consciousness to even be immoral with in the first place.

Oh pffft. One neutered tomcat tells you all you need to know about animal husbandry? I have 7 females, half are not neutered. I've learned more with this current colony than I ever did about cats and I've owned cats all my life, which is longer than you've been breathing, in addition to managing a breeding facility for a few years. With the single gender and they have free run of the house, their variation in breeability (some neutered, some whole) and ages (from 1 yr to 10+ years), there are more social dynamics. One cat taken out of context is not a social model.

I've owned: horses, ponies, cattle, goats, ferrets, dogs, birds, fish, rats, guinea pigs, one hedgehog, mice, dormice, flying squirrels ... I was teaching horseback riding and handling pedigreed german shepards ten years before you were a twinkle in your mother's eye.

Animals are not cruel, because cruelty is an abstract concept requiring intent. Animals do not possess the capacity for abstract thought (which is why they do not understand the concept of time).

I never said animals are more or less moral than people. I said they do not do certain things and there must be a logical reason because their motives are PURE. They don't think "oooo, I can't eat that, it's another predator," they think, "yuck smells bad not good food."

You hypothesize and extrapolate on what I've said and draw some really fucked up conclusions. Animals do not have human IQ, they don't have frontal lobes, they are incapable of many intellectual functions that humans take for granted, except maybe for the great apes and dolphins, and it is fascinating how these species, who we have proven can learn things verging on human capacity, are the ones who will engage in acts that most animals wouldn't do.

Here, everyone needs a good reason not to eat a predator, or be a cannibal, here's a good one: Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease.

Hiatt, you're an intellectual asshole. Go measure you're penis.

 

[Hiatussin]

I did not claim to have learnt animal psychology from my cat. Or to have learnt it at all, even. I just said I find it interesting. I find more things interesting than I will ever have time to learn about.

 

[musclemom]

I did not claim to have learnt animal psychology from my cat. Or to have learnt it at all, even. I just said I find it interesting. I find more things interesting than I will ever have time to learn about.

Having an interest in something is a world apart from having any knowledge of it. And just because someone doesn't have a college degree in something and can't quote chapter and verse in some scholarly textbook doesn't mean they are fools.

Most of the highly successful animal trainers, the so-called horse whisperers and dog-whisperers, never went to college, or read book one. They just respected the animals.

You rarely exhibit respect for your own species.

 

[BrothaBill]

Having an interest in something is a world apart from having any knowledge of it. And just because someone doesn't have a college degree in something and can't quote chapter and verse in some scholarly textbook doesn't mean they are fools.

Most of the highly successful animal trainers, the so-called horse whisperers and dog-whisperers, never went to college, or read book one. They just respected the animals.

You rarely exhibit respect for your own species.

that's why they think they can 'whisper' to horses or dogs, b/c they are ignorant.
Same behavior can be replicated scientifically with a laymen in a few hours. There is nothing to it and I grew up around horses so you don't hold some argumentary sword about experience to throw in his face.

The problems are generally, people "figuring out their own mechanism" with a given animal population.
It hardly carries over as a substantial document, it is so specific and confine to the environment and the subjects (animal and trainer) that is completely worthless in any discussion.

Discussion of accepted behaviorial traits may offer some insight or discussion on the matter but the anectdotal stuff of "...I had...." is always dismissed in the advanced world b/c of the fallacies it often entails.

I could point out numerous examples as to why anectdotal evidence is very poor in an educated debate but I said I didn't want to bicker. But if you are going to argue, you should learn what is generally accepted or not accepted b/c it prevents me having to list numerous examples of why logic you are using are flawed and discounted.
It would save me time

 

[musclemom]

that's why they think they can 'whisper' to horses or dogs, b/c they are ignorant.
Same behavior can be replicated scientifically with a laymen in a few hours. There is nothing to it and I grew up around horses so you don't hold some argumentary sword about experience to throw in his face.

The problems are generally, people "figuring out their own mechanism" with a given animal population.
It hardly carries over as a substantial document, it is so specific and confine to the environment and the subjects (animal and trainer) that is completely worthless in any discussion.

Discussion of accepted behaviorial traits may offer some insight or discussion on the matter but the anectdotal stuff of "...I had...." is always dismissed in the advanced world b/c of the fallacies it often entails.

I could point out numerous examples as to why anectdotal evidence is very poor in an educated debate but I said I didn't want to bicker. But if you are going to argue, you should learn what is generally accepted or not accepted b/c it prevents me having to list numerous examples of why logic you are using are flawed and discounted.
It would save me time

Don't encourage him Bill. At least you'll give someone credit that MAYBE once in a great while granted, that a NON intellectual and/or female is capable of making a rational argument.

I've NEVER claimed to be capable of holding my own against you, Hiatt or lots of other "smart people" on the board when it comes to intellectual arguments. Hiatt has been on a high horse all damn day and it started with him managing to mention that children have no value because you can't paint the walls with their brains or have sex with them, and how stupid celebrating Easter was, in the same post.

But be reasonable, do you really think you can take an ice cold laymen, slap an animal husbandry textbook in his hands, and have him bringing an animal under control, training it? Pulling up the horse whisperer was a dirty card, I admit, but there are trainers out there like that, that good, I've seen em. There are people that animals respond to and will practically walk on water for, it is what it is. I have a cat that responds to my verbal commands. My husband tries the same thing she looks at him like he's stupid

BTW, curiousity, what kind of horses?

But anyway, I've admitted I know I don't have an IQ to compare with Hiatt, but brains ain't everything.

And Bill, I've met a whole lot of doctors that are major assholes. Rude, thoughtless, disrespectful, insular, lacking compassion, empathy, and apparently basic human warmth. Robot physicians.

I have a doctor I work for, I call him "Dr. Asshole." He bitches because his transcription has the occasional blank spot, without understanding (or apparently, caring) that if he would not talk WHILE he is actively burping, eating or yawning while the tape is running he wouldn't have these blank spots. He doesn't seem to understand, or care, there's another human being on the other side of that tape. He spells words you can find in Webster's dictionary (regular words, mind you, not medical terms) and blows through drug names, mispronouncing them HORRIFICALLY, while saying them quickly and not giving me a clue what kind of drug it is or what the drugs purpose it is. None of this would happen if he stopped to realize another person was listening to this ...

And I won't even start with how heartless the fuckers that "took care" of my mother were ... let's say I nearly was removed from the hospital by security because I verbally jumped on a resident. The nurses, however, took me aside later and said everything I said was true and vindicated.

Robot doctors with superiority complexes the world does NOT need more of.

 

[JayC9]

Yes but I'd rather it didn't resemble the animal in form. Sliced meat all pretty much looks the same, only differences are the taste and texture.

Could I go round the back of the stables to slaughter old Nelly, roast her on a spit and then chow down? Probably not.

It definitely has something to do with how you were raised, what you consider the norm or taboo etc etc. Was in the town of Mae Sot (border town close to Burma) about a year ago. Found a little old lady sitting in the market barbequing smallish animals. Couldn't quite make out what animal it was? About to ask her when my eyes focused on the basket of rats behind her. She asks me if I'd like to try one...no thanks. Sat and watched the stall for a bit to see what sort of people go to a market to buy cooked rat. Imagine getting home from a days work and asking the wife what's for dinner 'got a nice piece of vermin and some rice ready on the stove my love.'

We had a live in maid once that kept screwing up the simplest of tasks. One day the wife makes her eat one of those big double winged moths alive as a punishment. The maid stuffs this fat hairy moth in her mouth and walks away with a grin. Apparently they're considered a delicacy in her home town?

 

[Hiatussin]

And I won't even start with how heartless the fuckers that "took care" of my mother were ... let's say I nearly was removed from the hospital by security because I verbally jumped on a resident. The nurses, however, took me aside later and said everything I said was true and vindicated.

I can totally imagine you in there. The nurses are experienced and would do and say anything to shut you up. Although yes, I know they often hold grudges against the doctors.

I don´t think the best way to get taken seriously is to verbally attack someone for not believing what you´re saying.

Robot doctors with superiority complexes the world does NOT need more of

What if... just hypothetically, YOU´re the one with an INFERIORITY complex? Is that possible?

Looking at the cue lists for patients in countries with socialised health care, and the poor who can´t even afford health care in the other countries- I´d say a few hundred thousand rational, fast working doctors is exactly what the world needs, filling up the gaps and lowering the market price.

If all doctors here today would start to drink tea and talk about feelings as well as the body of their patients, in no time only millionaires could afford them at all. and I don´t even want that. When I go to a hairdresser I go to the cheapest one in town, who happens to only cut men, I tell him what I want, he does it, typically in under 5 minutes, I tell him good day and I´m gone. Cheaper and nicer than listening to some hairdressers crap who I have nothing in common with.

 

[Hiatussin]

You rarely exhibit respect for your own species.

I disagree.

 

[LintRoller]

Anyone ever check out Andrew Zimmerman? I'm sure he's eaten a few race horses in his day, not to mention any of the nastiest things you could ever imagine.

With that said, I'll try any meat once, as long as its safe to eat. If that guy can do it, so can I .