Anyone stepped "on" with decreased testicle size and low sexdrive?

[MrRTTB]

I once was shut off from a tren cycle, mayor decrease in testicles and low sexdrive. Clomid didn't help. I lost a lot of size and got fed up with it and started winny. My sexdrive and testicles went back to normal again when I did this, very strange. Right now I'm shut off and are on Clomid 100mg per day. Also doing nolvadex and if anything is happening it is a very slow process..In about 2 weeks I hope to be back and I will start my cycle with test prop and proviron. Later in that cycle I will add tren and winny, also EQ. Would it be possible, while on Test, to get back testicle size with something like HCG? I thought I would try to get my testicles back to normal even on a cycle. I've never got decreased size with testo before.

Maybe ist's a dumb Q, but It feels like I had/have to ask

 

[Triple J]

Yes, use HCG late in the cycle just prior to Clomid therapy and your balls should be in good shape after a week or two of HCG. You also want a strong anti-estrogen like ldex or the others to run during your recovery therapy, and perhaps during your whole cycle. If estrogen is held low your boys may not shrink as much. Also bromo can be very helpful during the recovery period, for instance, if you notice your boys do not seem to bounce back quite rapidly from the HCG, prolactin levels may be an issue. Regarding your previous experience this would involve some interaction between estrogen and prolactin IMHO that kept you suppressed, when you went back on the winny, my guess is it kind of balanced out the problem somehow. Not a cure, but a bandage. Clomid and Nolva will not knock down your estrogen levels they will just block the feedback inhibition at the pituitary and in other areas. But if your estrgen is high and you are using Nolva or Clomid you are making the drug work much harder and it will be less effective. Thus take the ldex to lower e directly. The ldex will not clear built-up e but will greatly reduce new e. Same goes for bromo and prolactin.

 

[Triple J]

Thx bumpo

 

[MrRTTB]

I'm considering to step on a test/eq cycle soon, very soon. If the balls are not back until then, and I will be using test 500mg per week(test prop) and EQ(none has ever deacreased my nuts) would it be ok to step on and also use HCG? I know I probably wont get back whle on, but then again who knows, I did it while on winny..I will be using proviron, and that will rise both this and that. Also keep doing the nolvadex. I hope to be back until then anyway, but if I'm not..

Right now I think I'm comming back in a way. Nuts are the same and sexdrive very very low, but I've been able to gain some size during the last 2 weeks. 3 weeks ago I just kept loosing even though I ate a lot and so on. I was also very tired and elt like shit. I REALLY felt catabolic. Since the last 2 weeks, or 1½ I've been able to get back slowly to where I was(in strength). Strength is going up slowly and my muscles are not as sore as they were 4 weeks post cycle when workoing out.

 

[Triple J]

Listen bro what you are saying is confusing so it is hard to answer your question. If like you say, the gear you recently used and what you plan to use, does not shrink your boys, then there is not much point running the HCG while on cycle, OK? Its purpose then is just to maintain the size and some activity. Since you say your balls are back to normal size now, and don't shrink much when running test / EQ, I would say just save it for the end of the cycle.

But my honest advice to you at this point is to stay off a while until everything gets back to normal for a while. If your sex drive is in the dirt still its no time to jump back on. Based in the sex drive issues and your experience with tren, I think you may have some prolactin issues, besides some potential test/free test issues. Which point to you still being inhibited or out of balance at the hypothalumus. I think you need a little blood work so you can chart the right course.

 

[bigdelt69]

No offense but triple J is wrong on several points.
Using HCG will help bring your nuts back, but its only temp. If you are still shut down they will just shrink again. HCG acts like LH, but it does nothing to stimulate LH. (triple j, correct me if i am wrong)

Liquidex is not an anti-e. It is an anti aromatizer. Also I dont think that estrogen levels have any effect on the size of the testes. If your shut down its not because of estrogen. I dont see how liquidex will help reduce estrogen after the cycle. If there is no test to aromatize then where would additional estrogen come from?

Triple J is correct on not starting another cycle. At this point you really just need to bring back your htpa. Come off using standard nolva, clomid, hcg theropy. Get some blood work done to see where u stand.

 

[MrRTTB]

I'll try to clarify it, but I know what you are saying.

My cycle looked like this, 4 weeks 800mg EQ then 6 weeks 600mg. I ran tren 75mg ED last 3½ weeks and stopped them both at the same time. My nuts decreased very fast but this happened when I started the tren. I therefor think the prob comes from prolactine. I also ran proviron 50mg Every day and 25mg ED one week after last injection. Also used 2.5mg bromo ED from one week before the tren and 1½ weeks post cycle. Everything went fine until in the end off jan when I crashed HARD, got the flue and lost a lot of the size. I was stupid enough to think clomid wouldn't help as it never did much for me before(but maybe I should have used it anyway). I read a few posts where people didn't use clomid or nolvadex as the body will go back to normal by itself(most of the times), so I thought this mighe work for me..I got MACA and changed my diet and everything was mfine until I got the flue and just started loosing. I don't give a s*it about the gains right now. I will take my change and hit this next one with HCG in the middle oif the cycle or every 2 weeks, and when I stop the test. My nuts are NOT back to normal yet, but I hope theyt will soon. I started bnolva aboutr 2 weeks ago and started clomid 3 days ago. Also added bromo but I only found 4 tabs so I will try it for 4 days at 2.5mg ED(took 1.25mg this morning but forgot the milk so I got dizzy as hell).

My cycle will look like this:

W1-10 Test propionate 500mg Every week(EOD shots)
W3-9: Tren 100mg EOD(lower dose than last time and I will up on the bromo if I feel my nyuts are deacreasing.
W2-10: Bromo 2.5mg ED
W1-6: EQ 400mg Every Week(only this left and can't save it so I will run it this way).
W8-11: winny 50mg ED.
W: 1-12: proviron 25mg ED
w: 1-16: Nolvadex 20mg ED


I will add clomid postcycle, and hcg mid and post cycle.

This is for bulk so I will eat big and the doses are fine for this. What I would like to know is if it is likely for the testicles to go back in size even on a cycle if hcg would be injected. Winny made me get back once(stepped on a winny only and wopps my nuts were back to nbormal again after a deacresase in size from a previous small tren only cycle.)

 

[Triple J]

I'll try to clarify it, but I know what you are saying.

My cycle looked like this, 4 weeks 800mg EQ then 6 weeks 600mg. I ran tren 75mg ED last 3½ weeks and stopped them both at the same time. -cut -

Everything went fine until in the end off jan when I crashed HARD, got the flue and lost a lot of the size. -cut-

I don't give a s*it about the gains right now. I will take my change and hit this next one with HCG in the middle oif the cycle or every 2 weeks, and when I stop the test. My nuts are NOT back to normal yet, but I hope theyt will soon. I started bnolva aboutr 2 weeks ago and started clomid 3 days ago. Also added bromo but I only found 4 tabs so I will try it for 4 days at 2.5mg ED(took 1.25mg this morning but forgot the milk so I got dizzy as hell).

OK bro I am still a little confused but I am trying to sort this out. I edited some of your comments to get to the heart of the matter regarding what went wrong your prior cycle. Primarily you quit the tren and EQ at the same time - you should have quit the EQ a good three weeks in advance of the tren. The EQ will take 4 weeks to clear your system. That is why you crashed so hard when you did - that is when the EQ finally bottomed out. You need to quit any long esters 3-4 weeks in advance of your recovery and switch over to short acting compounds (i.e. tren, winny, etc). You say you felt fine for a while but that was just because the EQ was still supporting you. Second bad you did not have your post cycle recovery stuff lined up, and it appears you would have timed it wrong anyway.

So the HCG would not have done you much good, OK? Cause you timed your drug clearance all wrong - that was the issue. Plus you thought you could skate by without doing much.

Now HCG only prepares your system for recovery by getting your boys back to plump health, ready to jump into action from that LH signal. Cause like bigdelt said, it does nothing to help get your pituatry and hypothalumus back online. That is where clomid, nolva, and ldex come into play. But be careful with HCG cause it causes some big estrogen spikes. HCG is still suppressive to the pituitary for that reason. That is why HCG is best used that last week or so of a cycle. Its about preparing your boys for action.

OK live and learn. Back to the drawing board for you and get yourself straight before the next cycle.

 

[bigdelt69]

Very well said by Triple J.

 

[Triple J]

No offense but triple J is wrong on several points.

I'll try to clarify and explain myself a little - we basically agree.

Using HCG will help bring your nuts back, but its only temp. If you are still shut down they will just shrink again. HCG acts like LH, but it does nothing to stimulate LH. (triple j, correct me if i am wrong)

That is right bro I think that is what I tried to say but you said it better.

Liquidex is not an anti-e. It is an anti aromatizer.

OK splitting hairs on me - that is what I was getting at when I said it will do nothing to clear existing e from your system. But it will lower e over time. Ask most docs they will tell you adex, femara, aromisin are all anti-e's. Even though like you said, the mode of action is inhibiting or deactivating aromitase.

Also I dont think that estrogen levels have any effect on the size of the testes. If your shut down its not because of estrogen.

It will really vary a great deal from person to person so I probably should not have made a blanket statement like I did. The feedback inhibition is caused by both estrogen and androgens. Its just my observation testicle shrinkage is greatest when levels of both hormones are high (basically the more hormones that are triggering feedback shutdown the greater the degree of shutdown). Add some progestins, or elevated prolactin, to this mix and you have a recipe for some disappearing balls.

Like you pointed out, blocking e feedback is important for recovery. In the case of nolva, it blocks the estrogen feedback, with ldex it reduces e to a level where there is not much e to trigger feedback inhibition. In both cases stimulating greater LH output.

I dont see how liquidex will help reduce estrogen after the cycle. If there is no test to aromatize then where would additional estrogen come from?

Yes, good point, if e levels are already low and one is sure they will stay low. I am not sure I understand exactly what is going on but in my experience ldex will aid the recovery greatly when run with clomid or nolva, or even just by itself. Bottom line, the body is out of balance at this time and estrogen and prolactin are the enemies of a good recovery.

Bromocriptine (via lowering prolactin) potentiates HCG, too resulting in a better testosterone boost from the HCG.