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Any input....

  • Thread starter Thread starter The Shadow
  • Start date Start date
T

The Shadow

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..list some things that you guys would like to see in this forum.
 
off the top of my head, what i wouldn't like to see is the poll option. i think it can be done away with in all forums except C & C. sorry if this has been said already, but i thought since this is an official "forum improvement" thread (if there could be such a thing), this is the ideal place to mention this again.
 
I mentioned this on the mod board:

If an older poll gets bumped by voting, but now new coments are posted withing a day or so, the poll should be locked. A sticky can be made with links to the locked polls. That way the info is available to everyone, including non-plats
 
The Shadow said:
I mentioned this on the mod board:

If an older poll gets bumped by voting, but now new coments are posted withing a day or so, the poll should be locked. A sticky can be made with links to the locked polls. That way the info is available to everyone, including non-plats
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bro, i'm not sure any of the polls serve any purpose... i'm not sure anyone else finds them useful either.
 
silver_shadow said:
bro, i'm not sure any of the polls serve any purpose... i'm not sure anyone else finds them useful either.
Click to expand...

...thats why Im asking.

I hear a lot of rumbling about discontent over here
 
another idea is to take a look at the stickys. do we really need the "kill the shit" sticky? there was a WSB template thread started by illuminati - that would be a good thing to sticky or add to the training vault (i don't if that's possible since it's already locked).
 
Agreed, I think the guys who frequent this place are more concerned about constructive criticism and helping others rather than bragging.

The numbers speak for themselves as well as the work, don't really care who wears gloves, how big your guns are or the rest of that stuff.

I would rather be called a cunt by Asscrack Invasion than to filter through 5 polls in order to see which post he'll shit on next...
 
silver_shadow said:
another idea is to take a look at the stickys. do we really need the "kill the shit" sticky? there was a WSB template thread started by illuminati - that would be a good thing to sticky or add to the training vault (i don't if that's possible since it's already locked).
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exactly. take that piece of crap "kill that shit" sticky down and get something fresh and timely to put in its place. Maybe along the lines of "Be really RUDE to that SHIIIT!!!1!".


just a suggestion.
 
I PM'ed stilleto about the polls today and he told me he would get on it tonight.

I also told stilleto about the sticky's.
 
We need sticky's that are useful. A member can post a request for action in a sticky at the top of the page and the Mod can just check the sticky daily. Or, Mods need to be more active in here.

Rewards need to be offered to long time members that consistently contribute in here as well.
 
Like the others said, maybe more helpful stickies. Good articles, a sticky of video hosting sites for people who want others to critique their lifts, etc. I'm aware that these threads would have to be made first but you get the point, more helpful training shit and less killing of it.
 
What about a featured "lift" (freeweight/cable exercise) of the month?

Example:

Create a thread about Box Squats. What is it? Why is it important to add these to your routine? Maybe the hype around it is wrong. People can post what they think about this lift. Love it? Hate? Is it overrated?

Is that corny? :worried:
 
Re: sticky. I posted a thread a while back about the need for a revamp of the stickies, starting with KILLING THAT STICKY. I haven't forgotten about it and will put something together after the end of the semester, if nobody beats me to it. Feel free bump that old thread or start a new one with suggestions of what you'd like to see.

nycgirl said:
What about a featured "lift" (freeweight/cable exercise) of the month?

Is that corny? :worried:
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Yes. Although I must admit I subscribe to T-Nation's weekly email solely for the amusement of seeing the contrived crap they come up with for the exercise of the week.
 
Cynical Simian said:
Yes. Although I must admit I subscribe to T-Nation's weekly email solely for the amusement of seeing the contrived crap they come up with for the exercise of the week.
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LOL, I'm sorry. It was just a thought. A way for people new to lifting to learn about new exercises

;)
 
Sorry if the response to the exercise suggestion was a bit abrupt, there should have been some sort of smiley after "yes." :)

Jokes every month being squat month on this forum aside, most lifters, and new ones especially, would be best served by just focusing on basic compound movements.
 
Cynical Simian said:
Sorry if the response to the exercise suggestion was a bit abrupt, there should have been some sort of smiley after "yes." :)

Jokes every month being squat month on this forum aside, most lifters, and new ones especially, would be best served by just focusing on basic compound movements.
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Yes, I agree.
 
Would it be possible to get the occasional handjob in this forum? Just asking.

Stickeys are tricky -- if you stickey every good link/thread that comes up, you wind up w/ a page full of 'em. If you make a generic "post your favorite workout" stickey, and leave it open, it becomes to unwieldy to be useful as you have to sort through 25 pages of crap where people bicker, jerk off, etc. Here's what would be GREAT: make someone a mod who's really interested in putting together solid synopses of materials/workout programs, etc. or someone who will create new articles (even if they're just collections of valuable tidbits like 'best bulking tips" etc.), and let them create stickeys for this forum over time. IOW, rather than us hunting through old threads, looking for good ones, it'd be better to have someone dedicated to this forum, who can cull through all the goddamned crap on the net, piece together well-written, useful articles or "checklists" or whatever, and turn that into a sticky. Of course, you have to find someone who's really dedicated to this stuff or interested in researching and putting together useful posts.

One sticky idear -- a single post comprised of the "best links" that us dopes submit over say, the next 2 weeks or something. Start a thread that says: posts your favorite links here, and then that can be consolidated into a single-post sticky using the best of the best.

Final idea -- Anthrax Invasion needs his own advice column stickey. "Anthrax Invasion, I'm fat what should I do? . . . Get off your stupid fat ass, stop whining, and kill yourself."
 
Final idea -- Anthrax Invasion needs his own advice column stickey. "Anthrax Invasion said:
lol.. everyone's giving this guy a hard time..

yeah.. i agree with what everyone is saying here.. more UPDATED info on the training vault and new articles reagarding training would be excellent.. :artist:
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eat big said:
I PM'ed stilleto about the polls today and he told me he would get on it tonight.

I also told stilleto about the sticky's.
Click to expand...


i'm sorry eb- i've been swamped with phone calls for work.

and yes- nycgirl- i know i should be more active- since I competed, i haven't been lifting much cause I hurt my shoulder.
 
I think we should can the polls too, but if we end up keeping them, then at least stop them from bumping just because someone has voted in them. And force them to have a timeout - who really wants a poll that lasts for a year?

I guess we could do with a sticky that's a bit of a FAQ. Somewhere we can point new lifters to. Maybe a set of questions where each is followed by a list of links to useful posts/articles elsewhere.

lol at the thought of an 'Agony Anthrax' column.
 
It's good to see some of the mods/admin interested/active in this forum for a change.

First like everyone else has states lets get rid of the polls. I am a member of many types of message boards and not once in my entire life have I ever seen a poll that was even remotely useful. All it does for this forum is clutter it up and make it look like a mirror of BB.com. Lets remove that option all together please.

Second, integrity and more moderator/admin involvement over here. When I decided to get back to the gym after years off I went on the net looking for a message board to be a part of. I came across a bunch of really shitty BS message boards filled with useless posts about the "pump", hitting the chest from all angles, look at my picture, i’m 150lbs should I cut or bulk... etc. Finally I found EF and was so happy to see it was ata much higher level.

Unfortunately in the past month or so it seems like we're being invaded by the overflow of places like bb.com and you started seeing those useless posts pop up on this forum.

I ask for more mod involvement and a certain standard to be semi enforced over here. When someone starts filling the forum with useless threads on a daily basis it should be stopped as it only invites more of the same BS and really brings down the forum as a whole.

EF is a big place and this forum is just one of many so I can see how it would be hard for a mod to keep trac of every forum. How about a mod that will frequent this forum on a daily basis?

Also how about a sticky with links to the vids that the members here have posted. There are some seriously strong people on this board and they are nice enough to post videos of themselves performing various lifts. It would benice to be able to look in one thread and see various members doing lifts I am trying to learn/ get inspiration on.

Oh, and I'd read AI's rant of the day if he were given column, lol

Ok I'm done rambling.
 
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I love the beginner's sticky idea. I also like the individual training program stickys. But here's how I think we should handle 'em to make 'em manageable: one sticky entitled “beginner’s information” or something and one entitled “workout programs” (I’m not creative). Then, rather than have the “HST sticky” and the “German volume” sticky and the “WSBB sticky”, we’d have one “training program” sticky. And in that sticky, each post would cover a separate training program in a logical, easy to read fashion. E.g., one post would cover WSBB, the next would be HST, the next would be 5x5, etc. And then maybe the first post could just be a “table of contents” with links to each post w/in that thread (e.g., post 1 = WSBB, post 2 = HST). We’d just need somebody to set up/collect all the pertinent info. for the training programs. Basically, send all this “stuff” through one funnel and put it into a well-organized sticky, managed by one or maybe a couple people. That’s better than 12 stickies, one for each workout program, and hundreds of pointless posts per sticky. Hell, it wouldn’t be hard – people can go out, cut-and-paste (with attribution, of course) relevant info. and assemble it into a post. Then, that post is submitted to whoever the mod is, and it gets added as a new post to the “training program” sticky.
 
Protobuilder said:
I love the beginner's sticky idea. I also like the individual training program stickys. But here's how I think we should handle 'em to make 'em manageable: one sticky entitled “beginner’s information” or something and one entitled “workout programs” (I’m not creative). Then, rather than have the “HST sticky” and the “German volume” sticky and the “WSBB sticky”, we’d have one “training program” sticky. And in that sticky, each post would cover a separate training program in a logical, easy to read fashion. E.g., one post would cover WSBB, the next would be HST, the next would be 5x5, etc. And then maybe the first post could just be a “table of contents” with links to each post w/in that thread (e.g., post 1 = WSBB, post 2 = HST). We’d just need somebody to set up/collect all the pertinent info. for the training programs. Basically, send all this “stuff” through one funnel and put it into a well-organized sticky, managed by one or maybe a couple people. That’s better than 12 stickies, one for each workout program, and hundreds of pointless posts per sticky. Hell, it wouldn’t be hard – people can go out, cut-and-paste (with attribution, of course) relevant info. and assemble it into a post. Then, that post is submitted to whoever the mod is, and it gets added as a new post to the “training program” sticky.
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kudos.


And to further the fostering of information sharing and constructive criticism, moderators should, in fact, moderate threads. Nullify flame fests and useless bashing. Example: 5x5 is not an end all, be all program. So moderate the HIT'ers that come over and bash. Likewise, if a HIT'er starts a thread - let their views and experiences be aired, but keep the rest of the board (pretty much everyone that is sane and rational) from running them off altogether.

My biggest gripe is a past mod who posted suspect workouts and idealogoy, moderated posts without explanation of their actions, and then pretty much abandoned the board with no explanation. That and backne (which I still have the pics of which they posted of themselves).
 
I like the idea of seperate threads for each 'program'. I think it's much too easy to get aspects of each program mingled together when they're not seperate. I can see someone thinking that they aren't making much headway on their ME work during week 3 of HST :p

I think that for the most part this is a great board that is pretty good about self-regulation - we jump all over stupidity and are pretty patient with newbs overall. I think that some new stickies with clear organization and focus would be great. I'll reiterate that I'm in favor of a series of stickies on the 'major' programs like WSB, 5x5, HST, Rippetoe, etc. with thourough discussion and links contained within.

I love the idea of a 'members' vids' section as it adds personality to the board to see the people you're getting to know via the computer in action. I think it would be great if there was a thread that was ONLY vids, where anyone who posted vids would have a section that they could add to. To discuss that lifter's vids, there would be a link to a thread for that purpose so as to not clutter the vid section with discussion - it seems that vids garner loads of posts, so keeping the vids and posts seperate would mean that the vids don't get lost in the 'carnage'.
 
Good ideas from G5.0.

We'd need an interested mod to cull through the "vid stickey" and wipe out any stupid "great lift dood!" posts so it remains an "all vid" thread. Great idea though.

Maybe we should start a thread (a poll? LoL) asking for input on what types of programs we think should warrant a sticky? It seems clear that we've got:

1) WSBB
2) 5x5
3) Ripp's beginner program (maybe this could just be the "beginner stickey" replete w/ some basic diet advice and a 'top ten' bulking tips type thing)
4) HST, and
5) ???
 
mekannik said:
kudos.


And to further the fostering of information sharing and constructive criticism, moderators should, in fact, moderate threads. Nullify flame fests and useless bashing. Example: 5x5 is not an end all, be all program. So moderate the HIT'ers that come over and bash. Likewise, if a HIT'er starts a thread - let their views and experiences be aired, but keep the rest of the board (pretty much everyone that is sane and rational) from running them off altogether.

My biggest gripe is a past mod who posted suspect workouts and idealogoy, moderated posts without explanation of their actions, and then pretty much abandoned the board with no explanation. That and backne (which I still have the pics of which they posted of themselves).
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I posted a LOT over here once upon a time.....shit talking made me leave this forum
 
The Shadow said:
I posted a LOT over here once upon a time.....shit talking made me leave this forum
Click to expand...


Tom Treutlein (sp?) was a prick and caused much of the beef between member's. Digger put him on a Timout forever I think.
 
The Shadow said:
I posted a LOT over here once upon a time.....shit talking made me leave this forum
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I don't see any shit talking on this forum and thanks to my job I am able to read just about every thread here, lol

It's mostly people supporting each other offerind advice and contrats on their new PR lifts.

Maybe it's time to give it another chance.
 
I've noticed most online forums go in "waves". You get a few people really interested in a topic together, and the entire forum basically reads off what that 'group' discusses. Most people are hanger-ons and never really get the main point, but if they follow the workouts close enough. Soon though, the "core" members will be gone (ex: madcow), and you'll be left with a bunch of idiots that have followed 'expert' routines, but don't really understand them. Its happening already with the idiot that keeps bumping posts, the millions of questions that have already been answered; not to mention our spring break mascot, ilovetolift.
 
I'd like to see some training science articles by both mods and some of the more accomplished of our members. I'd like to be able to find out what's the latest thinking in pushing iron. Someone's always coming up with a new take on things and there aren't alot of opportunities for me outside EF to find out what there are. It would add a cutting edge dimension to our discussions. This also works with Outlaw's original suggestion which he posted in Plat in regards to establishing recognition of respected posters. Plus it would give us a chance to overrun the karma amateurs in C&C.
 
here are my suggestions:

have a sticky so that people can post up videos and pics, and have it for just that. no comments allowed. just videos and pics for people to look at. like Guniess said, have a thread about the video so people can comment. have a MOD, or give someone the capability to delete posts in the sticky that are comments related to the lift.

the kill that shit sticky...someone needs to kill that shit. it was cool when walkingbeast first started it, but now it needs to be killed

training stickies...yes, training comes in waves. people get all excited about one routine, and then it fades out. why not just have stickies for certain training styles, and as it fades out, delete the sticky.

Polls...ban them from the training forum.

have some way of cleaning up the posts, to prevent someone from bumping something that is 2+ years old. Really, anything that hasn't been posted on in 4 months should go.

if people want more sports specific stuff, then ask direct questions. dont just wait for someone to offer info. there is a lot of knowledge here, all you have to do is ask.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
I love the idea of a 'members' vids' section as it adds personality to the board to see the people you're getting to know via the computer in action. I think it would be great if there was a thread that was ONLY vids, where anyone who posted vids would have a section that they could add to. To discuss that lifter's vids, there would be a link to a thread for that purpose so as to not clutter the vid section with discussion - it seems that vids garner loads of posts, so keeping the vids and posts seperate would mean that the vids don't get lost in the 'carnage'.
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I like this idea too, although I'd prefer it to be just vids and not pics. G5.0, how about creating the first post, laying down the rules for the remainder of the thread, then it can be stickied? Each post should probably contain a brief description of what training you were following at the time, questions you have about your form, and link to another thread/journal for comments.

EDIT: Some vids of some of the ladies working out wouldn't go amiss either :p
 
Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier . . . Squatting is preached here by most everyone. Why not make this a foundational principle of the training forum? Set the mood around here by including a SQUAT sticky. It could include the obvious descriptions (cut & pasted, or written up by knowledgeable members) of diff't squatting styles, links to vids of good/bad form, and notes on how to fix form flaws, etc. (e.g., Wendler I think has a good article on "falling forward").

*edit -- I suggest everyone take a look at the "Training Info. Vault" sticky created by CasualBB and see if (a) it covers what you want, and (b) if it doesn't, are there some links that casualBB could add to it so that it accomplishes our goals here? Frankly, it's a solid sticky and maybe we cuold just update it a bit, maybe add some relevant links, etc., and we'd have roughly 50-75% of what we're wanting.
 
Just generally - instead of several stickies, consolidate all the threads of interest into one or a couple main stickies - this has worked great on the women's board - major topics are:
- competition prep
- newbies to the women's board
- top threads of all times <<== this would be the place to start to consolidate several stickies of interest. Then they dont' have to be stickied at the top but are easily located via the one main stickie.
 
Sassy69 said:
Just generally - instead of several stickies, consolidate all the threads of interest into one or a couple main stickies - this has worked great on the women's board - major topics are:
- competition prep
- newbies to the women's board
- top threads of all times <<== this would be the place to start to consolidate several stickies of interest. Then they dont' have to be stickied at the top but are easily located via the one main stickie.
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Also a good idea. Many people cruise right past the stickies we have- many questions could have been answered by stopping by the Training Information Vault. We need to put a few traffic signs up so people will stop by these sub-forums and participate in them. If we had an expanded mentor program to handle incoming calls, people would have to research first, and if they still had a question, they could be assured of a quality answer in a reasonable amount of time . Compiling an archive of relevant training articles might also be helpful.
 
So . . . what's the next step? Should we start throwing up our favorite links or something to see about getting them added to the training vault sticky? Or are some people gonna' follow Illuminati's lead and throw up articles etc. that oughta' be stickied/added to the vault???
 
eat big said:
Tom Treutlein (sp?) was a prick and caused much of the beef between member's. Digger put him on a Timout forever I think.
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haha you guys don't know that he's still around... you should be able to guess who he is now (new ID).
 
nycgirl said:
Can Mark Riptoes's (sp?) Starting Strength Program be added to the Training Vault Sticky?
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no it cannot... we can only get "what music do you listen to while training" stickies, aka shining new sticky
>:-[
 
nycgirl said:
Can Mark Riptoes's (sp?) Starting Strength Program be added to the Training Vault Sticky?
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Can you point me to the link? Then I can add it to the Training Vault sticky.
 
OK - I consolidated some of the links on casualBB's Training Vault sticky - can you guys look at that & see if its what you're looking for?

Also if someone can show me a link to Mark Riptoe's workout I can add that as well.
 
Sassy69 said:
OK - I consolidated some of the links on casualBB's Training Vault sticky - can you guys look at that & see if its what you're looking for?

Also if someone can show me a link to Mark Riptoe's workout I can add that as well.
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Thank you Sass ... I couldn't find it either
 
Here's the Rippetoe link:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752

I still hope to put together a new sticky sometime in the next few weeks. The programs and exercise descriptions part should be pretty easy and similar to what's already in the training vault. What's really needed to complement that, though, is a FAQ. It's time for a meal right now, but I'll be back in a while to post up some ideas for it. :chomp:
 
Cynical Simian said:
Here's the Rippetoe link:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752

I still hope to put together a new sticky sometime in the next few weeks. The programs and exercise descriptions part should be pretty easy and similar to what's already in the training vault. What's really needed to complement that, though, is a FAQ. It's time for a meal right now, but I'll be back in a while to post up some ideas for it. :chomp:
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Thanks for the link.

I agree the exercises are similar. However, I think someone in this forum (maybe Madcow, I'm not sure) recommended it as a beginner program prior to doing the Intermediate program 5x5.

I started it this week to rebuild my strength. I wish I knew about this program when I first joined EF.
 
KillahBee's grip post from the old sticky, with a broken link removed and one to another brand of gripper added.

KillahBee said:
There are a few people on this board that are very much into grip training, but not nearly enough. I think we all see just how important grip is when doing heavy DL's or even heavy shrugs. I recently began dedicating my Saturdays to extensive grip training and have fallen in love with it. It is not as simple as many people think yet training your grip correctly and with the same intensity and dedication as the rest of your body will yield fantastic results that you will see in many of your other lifts.

Below are some great links to quality articles, discussions, videos, and exercise descriptions that will hopefully help many of us out in our grip training. Please feel free to use this thread to ask questions and share any info about your grip training experience or add any links to info you have.

Great articles on grip training methods and exercises:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par15.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par17.htm
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~keen0018/grip.htm

How to tear a deck of cards (thanks to Parabellum):

http://heavysports.com/emag/Clay_Edgin/cards.html

Grip training videos (scroll down to "Grip" section):

http://dieselcrew.com/Videos.html

COC Grippers (buy 'em, read about 'em):
http://www.ironmind.com/ironcms/opencms/IronMind/Main/captainsofcrush1.html

Ivanko Gripper:
http://www.ivanko.com/products/html_stuff/gripper_info.html
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Okay, here's what I have so far. It's pretty simple, and intended mostly to provide basic information for new people and some convenient links for the regulars. Links to good general articles or collections of articles, in addition to other threads for the "best of" section would be appreciated. And, of course, if you think there's anything else that needs to be included (or if you disagree with what I included or how I described it), let me know.

Programs:

Disclaimer: This does not purport to be a comprehensive collection of styles of training. Rather, it reflects some of the programs that are used most often and considered well-designed and effective by the members of this board. Very generally, this means you'll find an emphasis on compound lifts, progressive resistance, and higher frequency than in the typical "bodypart X once per week" BBing split.
The hope is that eventually you'll apply the principles learned from "cookie-cutter" programs to your own program design. A few journals by forum members are included to show what runs of each program look like and some potential modifications.

5x5:
Madcow's Site - Excellent general training resource and intro to the 5x5. Do yourself a favor and just read everything here.
Direct links to the programs for the impatient:
Mark Rippetoe's 3x5 (Beginner)
Linear/Single Factor 5x5 (Intermediate)
Periodized/Dual Factor 5x5 (Advanced)

Journals:
(see the above site for more journals/results)
Rippetoe 3x5:
GSP
Single Factor:
anotherbutters
asdfzxcv
Dual Factor:
Guinness
Jim Ouini
Examples of extended DF volume phase with AAS:
Guinness
Blut Wump

Westside (WSB):
Westside Barbell Template
Example 8-Week WSB Program

Journals:
Guinness

Hypertrophy Specific Training (HST):
Surprisingly, the best place for HST info is the official site...
HST Intro
Articles
Forum
FAQ
HST summary and setup, a 3rd person perspective

Journals:
Guinness
Jim Ouini


Exercises:

Starting Strength - Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, Overhead Press, Power Clean - 20-50 pages on each, with pictures and diagrams. Best $30 you'll ever spend.

General Descriptions:
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

PL Forum Stickies:
Squat
Deadlift
Bench Press

Pendlay/JS Rows (same as the BB Row links on madcow's site):
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366601
http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=498&view=findpost&p=9976

What people mean when they say "Needsize Abs"

Videos:
http://www.joeskopec.com/assist.html
http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/video_index.htm

Olympic Lifts:
http://www.aceathlete.com/hatch/video.htm <-- look at this for the Oly squat even if you're not interested in the other Oly lifts
http://strengthtraining.asimba.com/fitness_info/muscle_group68.html

Cardio:
Tired of "regular" cardio?
Clean Cardio
Bar Complex

Other:
Grip Training
Active Recovery

"Best of the Training Board":
The War and Peace of Training threads, the original 5x5 thread. Everything you need should be on the Geocities site, but it's worth a look for the discussion and Q&A about all things 5x5. - Bill Starr's 5x5
ATF Squat form will differ a bit from person to person, but in general it should look similar to this. NB BiggT's posts about the difference between Oly and PL squats and the importance of core strength. - Guinness 325x5 (video)
Discussion of the general lack of emphasis on training knowledge. - Cruising the anabolic forum with BiggT
 
CS, on the joeskopec.com site that's listed under downloadable videos they have a section called Caculators that generates spreadsheets and in some cases explains cycles for various programs. There's one for 5x5, 3x3, some bench programs, Smolov squat, and some powerlifting cycles by Dr. Squat and a few by the Russians. They're downloadable, and if we can cop them en masse from joeskopec I think they'd make a good addition. (Also, many of the programs are written in excell-which I don't have. I'd love to get a look at them. :raina: )

Here's the link: joeskopec
 
Great link, FS. I was hoping to make this more useful for the regulars by including Korte, Smolov, etc. somehow. But I didn't want to give them a degree of prominence that might confuse newer lifters or lead them to choose a program that's far from ideal for their level of experience.

Bump for more input/links.
 
One that comes to mind is B Fold's site: http://clintdarden.com/

It's still under construction, but it deserves our recognition.

Also one more:World Powerlifting

This is obviously a powerlifting oriented site but they have a variety of programs oriented from beginner through advanced. They have some cycles for increasing bench, deadlift and squat and will give many exposure to new training ideas. It might be worthwhile to look through and decide if anything's applicable.

Speaking of the competition lifts, you won't find a better explanation of the basics anywhere than the stickies in the Powerlifting Forum. From the types of questions asked, my guess is many people haven't read these through.
 
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CS is da' bomb diggity. Nice job, man. Here's links I've got, in no certain order and w/ little to no description b/c I"m lazy. But most are good.

Peak Performance (see "library" on left side for a gazillion well-thought out articles): http://www.pponline.co.uk/prewp/pp-membertop.html

Awesome bodyfat/BMR/waist-height ratio calculator: http://members.nuvox.net/~on.jwclymer/bmi.html#waist

Slo-mo snatch vid: http://womag1.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=25

Dan John (cuz he rocks and his site is full of useful athlete stuff): http://www.danjohn.org/

Articles on elitefts.com: http://www.elitefts.com/articles/Current-Articles/default.asp

Kelly Baggett's awesome BB'ing articles: http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/articles.html

Another EXCELLENT article from Kelly that's great for beginners, IMO: http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/trainingphilosophy.html

Dave Tate's article on "Falling forward in the squat": http://www.elitefts.com/documents/falling_forward.htm

JV Askem's site (RIP) (very good training stuff here on OLY, squats, etc.): http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/

Coan/Phillippi DL routine (for advanced trainees): http://www.powerpage.net/coanphildead.html

a nice hypertrophy program from Fortified Iron: http://www.fortifiediron.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=24242

An overview of periodization (warning: nerd alert): http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/periodization.html

Nice set of articles by Lyle McDonald on periodization: http://www.clutchfitness.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1052&PN=1

All things squat related: http://www.strengthcats.com/squatresource.htm
 
Cynical Simian,

I love it, you've got most of the bases covered when it comes to most questions people starting to take interest in serious training ask. I like the choices of journals too, as all the authors are consistent, get results, and are intelligent and clear in their explanations of what they're doing.

I was gonna suggest Gayle Hatch;s site for olympic lifts, but I saw you got it already. I think Hatch's instructional vids (free and online) are really second to none in stressing the speed and explosion necessary.

I MAY have missed it, but definitely include a link to www.marunde-muscle.com Jesse's site is a great resource for people looking to incorporate strongman into their training, and lots of HIGH LEVEL guys keep journals there too........I can find the URL offhand, but Shannon Hartnett's site is awesome for any athlete, and particularly motivating to females looking for serious perfoamcne rather than fluff training, a great layout of a routine for throwers is on there too....and I must say she looks damn good in those swimsuit shots to boot.
 
Oh, yeah....if I missed it, great link is Jackals Gym....it is the Gillingham's site....GREAT, GREAT, GREAT deadlift video available, very affordable and well worth it. Brad Gillingham pulls over 800lbs with a hook grip, trains a lot of cleans and front squats too. He power cleans 350 as a "warm-up" to deadlifting and he uses nice, polished form and makes the 350 look like an absolute joke......very motivating.....he also has DLed over 800 in competition something like 40 times, so he practices what he preaches.
 
Thanks for the links and feedback, everybody. I put them in a "further reading" section, which I tried to keep pretty general by limiting the links to collections of, rather than specific, articles.

PB, I had you in mind when I asked if anyone had any links...lots of good stuff.

BiggT, that first link is great. I googled the other two, but I'm not sure how I'd incorporate what are essentially personal sites into the sticky. Anyway, here's the updated version...


This is pretty simple and general, and intended mostly to provide basic information for new people and some convenient links for the regulars.

Programs:
Disclaimer: This does not purport to be a comprehensive collection of styles of training. Rather, it reflects some of the programs that are used most often and considered well-designed and effective by the members of this board. Very generally, this means you'll find an emphasis on compound lifts, progressive resistance, and higher frequency than in the typical "bodypart X once per week" BBing split.
The hope is that eventually you'll apply the principles learned from "cookie-cutter" program runs to your own program design. A few journals by forum members are included to show what runs of each program look like and some potential modifications.

5x5:
Madcow's Site - Excellent general training resource and intro to the 5x5. Do yourself a favor and just read everything here.
Direct links to the programs for the impatient:
Mark Rippetoe's 3x5 (Beginner)
Linear/Single Factor 5x5 (Intermediate)
Periodized/Dual Factor 5x5 (Advanced)

Journals:
(see the above site for more journals/results)
Rippetoe 3x5:
GSP
Single Factor:
anotherbutters
asdfzxcv
Dual Factor:
Guinness
Jim Ouini
Examples of extended DF volume phase with AAS:
Guinness
Blut Wump

Westside (WSB):
Westside Barbell Template
Example 8-Week WSB Program

Journals:
Guinness

Hypertrophy Specific Training (HST):
Surprisingly, the best place for HST info is the official site...
HST Intro
Articles
Forum
FAQ
HST summary and setup, a 3rd person perspective

Journals:
Guinness
Jim Ouini


Exercises:
Starting Strength - Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, Overhead Press, Power Clean - 20-50 pages on each, with pictures and diagrams. Best $30 you'll ever spend.

General Descriptions:
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

PL Forum Stickies:
Squat
Deadlift
Bench Press

Pendlay/JS Rows (same as the BB Row links on madcow's site):
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366601
http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=498&view=findpost&p=9976

What people mean when they say "Needsize Abs"

Videos:
http://www.joeskopec.com/assist.html
http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/video_index.htm

Olympic Lifts:
http://www.aceathlete.com/hatch/video.htm <-- look at this for the Oly squat even if you're not interested in the other Oly lifts
http://strengthtraining.asimba.com/fitness_info/muscle_group68.html

Cardio:
Tired of "regular" cardio?
Clean Cardio
Bar Complex

Other:
Grip Training
Active Recovery

Diet:
Most questions about diet can be answered in the Diet Forum.
For our purposes, the salient point is that caloric balance determines whether you gain or lose weight. Madcow finally wrote a diet article because so many people mistakenly give credit (or blame) to programs for changes in weight.
Online Bodyfat, BMR, etc. Calculator (shouldn't be treated as absolute truth, but most find that it's pretty accurate)

Further Reading:
Articles, programs, etc. to check out once you have a grasp of basic training theory (as usual, see madcow's site for that)

Article Collections:
EliteFTS
Dan John
Kelly Baggett
Strength Online Archives
Marunde-Muscle (particularly good for those interested in strongman)

Other Programs:
Joe Skopec PL Programs and Calculators (Smolov, Korte, and others - see Strength Online link above for full Korte explanation)
Eastern and Western PL Programs

"Best of the Training Board":
The War and Peace of Training threads, the original 5x5 thread. Everything you need should be on madcow's Geocities site, but it's worth a look for the discussion and Q&A about all things 5x5. - Bill Starr's 5x5
ATF Squat form will differ a bit from person to person, but in general it should look similar to this. NB BiggT's posts about the difference between Oly and PL squats and the importance of core strength. - Guinness 325x5 (video)
Discussion of the general lack of emphasis on training knowledge. - Cruising the anabolic forum with BiggT
 
Last edited:
I have a few bookmarks to throw into the mix. Some of them are already linked from the 5x5 page, but they're still a good read. Include whichever you see fit.

* Glenn Pendlay on warmups
* TRAINING NEW LIFTERS - Glenn Pendlay and Mark Ripptoe
* madcow on training
* Article on different types of hypertrophy
* madcow: training benchmarks and progression over time
* Bluesman's advice for a beginner

Rather than a separate FAQ, I think it'd be better to flesh out what you have with a paragraph at the start of each section.
 
Looking on my hardrive, I"ve found an article that may be interest. I didn't see anything similar in the HST section. It's called "Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training"- an HST program modified to accomodate dual factor theory. The problem is I don't know the author or remember where it came from. I guess I kept it in case I ever wanted to go back to bodybuilding type stuff. If you're interested I've uploaded it, but didn't include it in the reply. I wasn't sure if the entire attachment would be displayed or just the link and didn't want to bloat the thread w/off topic.
 
CS, you're doing yeomen's work. Thanks.

Waddya' all think about building either (1) a dedicated squat sticky w/ tons of pure squat resources included . . . or (2) including said resources under a "squat" heading as part of the noob thread CS is working on?

And, yes, I know we have Arioch's write-up. It's awesome. But one article hardly covers everything, IMO.
 
FS, the author of the DFHT program is Matt Reynolds, and you might've come across it on madcow's site. I've tried to resist the temptation to make the sticky a carbon copy of that site, with the assumption that anyone who spends a bit of time posting/lurking on this board will give it a look anyway. I didn't include links to DFHT or the Coan/Phillipi Deadlift Rrogram under "other programs" for that reason.

AB, as already mentioned, I'm going to leave out the stuff that's already on madcow's site. The Pendlay warmup thread is great; that fills a big hole and will go under "best of...". For lack of a better place, I'll put the "types of hypertrophy" link under diet, since it'd be another helpful refutation of the simplistic "routine X is good for strength but not for mass" logic.

PB, what do you have in mind for the squat resource? So far there's Starting Strength (which I guess I'm assuming most people who're serious about training will purchase), Arioch, Hatch's site/videos, and Guinness's vid with the accompanying discussion of squat form/weaknesses. I agree that there're a lot of good squat articles out there, but there's a decent amount of information as is, even if it's a bit dispersed throughout the post.
 
You're right, I was just thinking about a consolidated "squatting" post (or even a dedicated "squat" sticky). Just an idear. The squat is so damn fundamental and it's really a tough movement. And we've got lots of good videos floating around here of diff't people squatting, along w/ some decent critiques from good folks, etc., and showing the good, the bad, and the ugly could be useful. Additionally, just throwing out some of the diff't types of squat articles, etc., might be helpful if they were all in one area. Just brainstorming . . . .
 
I know what you mean: BiggT's advice in that thread made a huge impact on my squatting and cleared up the Oly-PL ambiguity that's present in general/"athletic" squat descriptions in SS and Arioch. The Guinness and Hatch videos should help ensure that people know what they should be doing to correctly/safely go ATF.

Regarding videos, I think it's been mentioned earlier in the thread (possibly by you) and is a great idea. I'm sure guys have links to the stuff they've uploaded to putfile saved, so it'd be a simple matter of starting a dedicated "post your videos" thread. I'd do that myself, but I don't have any videos with which to start it. So, uh, feel free to kick it off with that "critique my squat" vid you posted a while ago.
 
Then there's Training With Dr. Squat- he a powerlifter but these articles are another presentation of the basics and the differences in style are noted and discussed. I think most strength athletes have surveyed his stuff at one time or another.

Dr. Squat
 
Version 3.0.

I added a few links and short descriptions for the three main programs (let me know if these seem accurate/helpful enough). I think (read: hope) it's pretty close to being finished.

This is pretty simple and general, and intended mostly to provide basic information for new people and some convenient links for the regulars.

Programs:
Disclaimer: This does not purport to be a comprehensive collection of styles of training. Rather, it reflects some of the programs that are used most often and considered well-designed and effective by the members of this board. Very generally, this means you'll find an emphasis on compound lifts, progressive resistance, and higher frequency than in the typical "bodypart X once per week" BBing split.
The hope is that eventually you'll apply the principles learned from doing "cookie-cutter" programs to your own program design. A few journals by forum members are included to show what runs of each program look like and some potential modifications.

Starr/Pendlay/Rippetoe 5x5:
The 5x5 was originally popularized by Bill Starr as a football strength program, and it and similar programs continue to be used by sports teams and competitive athletes around the world. An excellent general/foundational style of training that can be customized to fit a nearly any individual's goals and experience level.

Madcow's Site - Excellent general training resource and intro to the 5x5. Do yourself a favor and just read everything here.
Direct links to the programs for the impatient:
Mark Rippetoe's 3x5 (Beginner)
Linear/Single Factor 5x5 (Intermediate)
Periodized/Dual Factor 5x5 (Advanced)

Journals:
(see the above site for more journals/results)
Rippetoe 3x5:
GSP
Single Factor:
anotherbutters
asdfzxcv
Dual Factor:
Guinness
Jim Ouini
Examples of extended DF volume phase with AAS:
Guinness
Blut Wump

Westside Barbell (WSB):
WSB's focus is on increasing the three powerlifting competition lifts, the squat, deadlift, and bench press. In addition to being good for those interested in powerlifting or addressing a weak point in one or more of these lifts, it's very flexible and offers a mix of types of lifting with its Maximum and Dynamic Effort days.

WSB Intro and Overview
WSB Basic Template
Example 8-Week WSB Program

Journals:
Guinness

Hypertrophy Specific Training (HST):
The "Intro" link below goes into more detail, but, as the name implies, HST's primary goal is stimulating hypertrophy. It uses full-body workouts, and a cycle contains 15-,10-, and 5-rep phases.

Surprisingly, the best place for HST info is the official site...
HST Intro
Articles
Forum
FAQ
HST summary and setup, a 3rd person perspective

Journals:
Guinness
Jim Ouini


Exercises:
Starting Strength - Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, Overhead Press, Power Clean - 20-50 pages on each, with pictures and diagrams. Best $30 you'll ever spend.

General Descriptions:
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

PL Forum Stickies:
Squat
Deadlift
Bench Press

Pendlay/JS Rows (same as the BB Row links on madcow's site):
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366601
http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=498&view=findpost&p=9976

What people mean when they say "Needsize Abs"

Videos:
http://www.joeskopec.com/assist.html
http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/video_index.htm

Olympic Lifts:
http://www.aceathlete.com/hatch/video.htm <-- look at this for the Oly squat even if you're not interested in the other Oly lifts
http://strengthtraining.asimba.com/fitness_info/muscle_group68.html

Cardio:
Tired of "regular" cardio?
Clean Cardio
Bar Complex

Other:
Warm-Ups
Grip Training
Active Recovery

Growth:
Diet:
Most questions about diet can be answered in the Diet Forum.
For our purposes, the salient point is that caloric balance determines whether you gain or lose weight. Madcow finally wrote a diet article because so many people mistakenly give credit (or blame) to programs for changes in weight.
Online Bodyfat, BMR, etc. Calculator (shouldn't be treated as absolute truth, but most find that it's pretty accurate)
Rep Ranges:
Different Types of Hypertrophy

Further Reading:
Articles, programs, etc. to check out once you have a grasp of basic training theory (as usual, see madcow's site for that)

Article Collections:
EliteFTS
Dan John
Kelly Baggett
Strength Online Archives
Marunde-Muscle (particularly good for those interested in strongman)
Dr. Squat

Other Programs:
Joe Skopec PL Programs and Calculators (Smolov, Korte, and others - see Strength Online link above for full Korte explanation)
Eastern and Western PL Programs

"Best of the Training Board":
The War and Peace of Training threads, the original 5x5 thread. Everything you need should be on madcow's Geocities site, but it's worth a look for the discussion and Q&A about all things 5x5. - Bill Starr's 5x5
ATF Squat form will differ a bit from person to person, but in general it should look similar to this. NB BiggT's posts about the difference between Oly and PL squats and the importance of core strength. - Guinness 325x5 (video)
Discussion of the general lack of emphasis on training knowledge. - Cruising the anabolic forum with BiggT
Glenn Pendlay, Madcow, and others on goals, programs, progression, and more. - Making cookies without cutters
 
Mind if I add some style and tweak the wording here and there (e.g. mentioning the different stages of the 5x5)?

Version 3.0 service pack 1
-----------------------------------------

PROGRAMS

Disclaimer: This does not purport to be a comprehensive collection of styles of training. Rather, it reflects some of the programs that are used most often and considered well-designed and effective by the members of this board. Very generally, this means you'll find an emphasis on compound lifts, progressive resistance, and higher frequency than in the typical "bodypart X once per week" BBing split.

The hope is that eventually you'll apply the principles learned from doing "cookie-cutter" programs to your own program design. A few journals by forum members are included to show what runs of each program look like and some potential modifications.

Starr/Pendlay/Rippetoe 5x5:

The 5x5 was originally popularized by Bill Starr as a football strength program, and it and similar programs continue to be used by sports teams and competitive athletes around the world. An excellent general/foundational style of training that can be customized to fit a nearly any individual's goals and experience level.

Madcow's Site - Excellent general training resource and intro to the 5x5. Do yourself a favor and just read everything here.

Direct links to different stages of the 5x5 for the impatient (beginner = fastest progress; advanced = when you need it):

Journals (see the above site for more journals/results):
Rippetoe 3x5: GSP
Single Factor: anotherbutters, asdfzxcv
Dual Factor: Guinness, Jim Ouini
Examples of extended DF volume phase with AAS: Guinness, Blut Wump​

Westside Barbell (WSB):

WSB's focus is on increasing the three powerlifting competition lifts, the squat, deadlift, and bench press. In addition to being good for those interested in powerlifting or addressing a weak point in one or more of these lifts, it's very flexible and offers a mix of types of lifting with its Maximum and Dynamic Effort days.


Journals: Guinness

Hypertrophy Specific Training (HST):

The "Intro" link below goes into more detail, but, as the name implies, HST's primary goal is stimulating hypertrophy. It uses full-body workouts, and a cycle contains 15, 10, and 5 rep phases.

Not surprisingly, the best place for HST info is the official site...

Journals: Guinness, Jim Ouini


EXERCISES

Starting Strength - Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift, Overhead Press, Power Clean - 20-50 pages on each, with pictures and diagrams. Best $30 you'll ever spend.

General Descriptions / Videos:

PL Forum Stickies:

Pendlay/JS Rows (same as the BB Row links on madcow's site):

Misc:


CARDIO

Tired of "regular" cardio?


DIET

Most questions about diet can be answered in the Diet Forum.

For our purposes, the salient point is that caloric balance determines whether you gain or lose weight. Madcow finally wrote a diet article because so many people mistakenly give credit (or blame) to programs for changes in weight.

Online Bodyfat, BMR, etc. Calculator (shouldn't be treated as absolute truth, but most find that it's pretty accurate)


FURTHER READING

Articles, programs, etc. to check out once you have a grasp of basic training theory (as usual, see madcow's site for that)

Article collections:
EliteFTS
Dan John
Kelly Baggett
Strength Online Archives
Marunde-Muscle (particularly good for those interested in strongman)
Dr. Squat​

Other Programs:
Joe Skopec PL Programs and Calculators (Smolov, Korte, and others - see Strength Online link above for full Korte explanation)
Eastern and Western PL Programs​


"BEST OF THE TRAINING BOARD"

  • The War and Peace of Training threads, the original 5x5 thread. Everything you need should be on madcow's Geocities site, but it's worth a look for the discussion and Q&A about all things 5x5 - Bill Starr's 5x5

  • ATF Squat form will differ a bit from person to person, but in general it should look similar to this. NB BiggT's posts about the difference between Oly and PL squats and the importance of core strength - Guinness 325x5 (video)


 
lol, nice timing (and formatting). Good call on the 5x5 clarification - if somebody's impatient, he'll also probably think he's advanced. :p
 
I timed that well :)

I wasn't sure about some of the formatting, but I think it gives it a bit more structure and makes it easier to find your way around. It's grown into quite a monster.

I don't think we'd have to add in much more to make this a replacement for the training vault sticky. Why not go the whole hog and do that?

The barbell rows sticky ought to go too, since it's linked from the new page.

I added the 5x5 clarification because when people see 'advanced', they think 'better', but that's not the case. It's a matter of appropriateness.
 
AnotherButters and Cynical Symian - thanks for posting up the in depth reply, I don't think anyone could ask for anything more.

I would agree the other stickies can now be removed and replaced with the one re-formatted by AB (compliments of CS) and put into its own thread.

Can we do this please Shadow?
 
Well, the new sticky is up, and the KILL THAT SHIT one removed (thanks, stilleto).

Like AB said, the BB Rows thread is redundant, and, unless someone wants to make a case for keeping the old Training Vault sticky, this one can probably replace it.

As for the others, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't check the "introduce yourself" one very often, and it seems like most new members introduce themselves with a "how do I get hyooge biceps" thread anyway. But I guess it's a nice thing to have.

The "shoot the shit" thread seems a bit unnecessary. There are hardly ever any new posts in it, and the journals serve as de facto chat threads for the training forum gang anyway.
 
The mods would like to know what should be done with the other stickies. AB, QS, and I have already offered our opinions, but more input (even if it's just agreeing with what's been said) would be welcome.
 
Cynical Simian said:
Well, the new sticky is up, and the KILL THAT SHIT one removed (thanks, stilleto).

Like AB said, the BB Rows thread is redundant, and, unless someone wants to make a case for keeping the old Training Vault sticky, this one can probably replace it.

As for the others, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't check the "introduce yourself" one very often, and it seems like most new members introduce themselves with a "how do I get hyooge biceps" thread anyway. But I guess it's a nice thing to have.

The "shoot the shit" thread seems a bit unnecessary. There are hardly ever any new posts in it, and the journals serve as de facto chat threads for the training forum gang anyway.
Click to expand...

Agree completely. Eliminate the row & "shoot the shit" stickies and possibly the introduction sticky.

I'd still like to see an "all things squat" sticky the likes of which the 'net has never seen.
 
Protobuilder said:
Agree completely. Eliminate the row & "shoot the shit" stickies and possibly the introduction sticky.

I'd still like to see an "all things squat" sticky the likes of which the 'net has never seen.
Click to expand...
how about something more catchy "you don't know squat" ;)
 
Protobuilder said:
I'd still like to see an "all things squat" sticky the likes of which the 'net has never seen.
Click to expand...

Same here. We don't want this to be like the diet forum (or like this forum until we clean up the rest of the stickies) where there are so many stickies that people just ignore them. But if anything deserves a sticky, it's the squat.

Also, you should start that video thread. I'm thinking it'd be like the original 5x5 thread - maybe not a sticky but something that people continually add to that stays on the front page due to frequent updates.
 
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