Lifting twice a day?

[hoteacher]

I am looking to change up my lifting program and shock my body. I recently read an article on twice a day training. The article deals with using extreme glycogen delpletion in order to build muscle. The program calls for:

1. Performing the same exercises for both workouts, but change exercises from week to week in order to prevent overtraining.
2. Rest 3-8 hrs in between workouts.
3. Use high reps
4. Rest no more than 60 seconds between sets
5. Take 3-7 days before training a body part again
6. Follow program for no more than 6 weeks (I will follow for 4...due to school starting again)

Nutrition notes...because you are trying to deplete your muscles of glycogen then go full force after your second workout:
1. 1-2 hrs before first workout consume a lean protein with moderate amount of complex carbs.
2. post shake after first workout only protein
3. each meal in between workouts only protein and green leafy veggies
4. immediately after second workout...protein and at least 50g simple carbs ( I am a 110 female with 8 percent body fat....should I still consume 50g? I usually take 25g)
5. all meals after second session should include lean protein and some complex carb.

Has anyone ever tried this plan? THANKS!

 

[BiggT]

What are your goals?

In order to build muscle naturally, you need to train heavy. You need to be fueled to train heavy, so I don't see how 'muscle building' and 'glycogen depletion' should even be used in the same sentence.

The workout outlined sounds, for example, like something a fitness competitor would use when cutting and conditioning for a show. restricted carbs and short rest periods between sets will not build much of anything.

Again, it all depends on your goals. You said school was starting soon, and from your handle I will make a guess you're a teacher with the whole summer to workout whenever you want. If you want to build muscle and have a lot of time on your hands and want to play with twice a day training, let me know, I can post some sample routines. But, honestly, that routine and diet will not build any muscle for you.

 

[Guinness5.0]

IMHO the source of that info is completely unreliable- there are fundamental misunderstandings evident in the list. For example:

-To build muscle you need to improve on the most important lifts from week to week, not switch them up constantly to avoid "overtraining". There is definitely a point where variety becomes necessary, but it ain't week-to-week- that's a fact.
-The fact that whoever wrote this clearly has no understanding of what overtraining is makes any/all advice suspect right off the bat.
-Three-seven days b/t training the same body part? That right there is beyond vague.

I'm fairly new to learning what really works, and these are points that I probably would have agreed with not too long ago. Stick around the training forum, read some of what the "yodas" around here have to say and you'll soon see that the more complicated something is (in regard to training) the less likely it is to be beneficial.

 

[Tacosupreme]

let me guess muscle and fitness.... go out and get muscluar development.. they dont lie

 

[BiggT]

hoteacher,

Did you by chance happen to read that article in a popular bodybuilding magazine. If you did, the fact that it makes no sense is understandable. Still, if you are itching to work out twice a day, and build muscle, let me know, there are some decent routines.....

 

[hoteacher]

hoteacher,

Did you by chance happen to read that article in a popular bodybuilding magazine. If you did, the fact that it makes no sense is understandable. Still, if you are itching to work out twice a day, and build muscle, let me know, there are some decent routines.....

Hey! Thanks so much for the reply and info. Yes, I AM VERY INTERESTED in a new routine that will BUILD. I have been working with a trainer who has convinced me to do a bodybuilding show next summer. She would like me on stage in the spring but there is no way I will go through the cutting process in the presence of my students...so I am shooting for next aug. My trainer has me on the following split:

Mon-chest
Tues-back
Wed-legs
Thurs-shoulders with interval sprints afterward
Friday-bis and tris interval cardio again
Saturday-legs
sunday-off

My legs are lacking...she had me train quads and hams sep but did not see great results so now I am doing squats (free and sumo on smith)till I puke, lunges, leg presses, leg extensions, curls, etc. My diet is VERY CLEAN. Eating 40:40:20...however rotating my carbs, eating high on leg, hest and back and low on arms and shoulders.

Thanks for your help!

 

[super_rice]

i have no idea what eating how i would go about eating 40:40:20, but i know that if you didn't spend so much time rotating your carbs or whatever the hell that means (switching between rice and bread!!! ) and squatted with a good old barbell and a rack, your leg, as well as any other posterior chain problems would just go away. what the hell is sumo squatting?

however i think lifting twice a day is a very good idea, if you can handle the volume (bicep curls and crap like that is not "volume").

 

[Guinness5.0]

Hey! Thanks so much for the reply and info. Yes, I AM VERY INTERESTED in a new routine that will BUILD. I have been working with a trainer who has convinced me to do a bodybuilding show next summer. She would like me on stage in the spring but there is no way I will go through the cutting process in the presence of my students...so I am shooting for next aug. My trainer has me on the following split:

Mon-chest
Tues-back
Wed-legs
Thurs-shoulders with interval sprints afterward
Friday-bis and tris interval cardio again
Saturday-legs
sunday-off

My legs are lacking...she had me train quads and hams sep but did not see great results so now I am doing squats (free and sumo on smith)till I puke, lunges, leg presses, leg extensions, curls, etc. My diet is VERY CLEAN. Eating 40:40:20...however rotating my carbs, eating high on leg, hest and back and low on arms and shoulders.

Thanks for your help!

Well, I've got a feeling that the advice you get here and the advice you get from your trainer will differ substantially. It's impossible to follow both. "A man cannot serve two masters" (Some bible verse)

Example- IMO it really doesn't matter that you would up cals to emphasize a bodypart on a day-to-day basis. While it "sounds" like it makes sense to do so, in reality it doesn't work out b/c you don't grow extra on the days you train. You grow from response to stimulus based on a bunch of variables like rest, presence of caloric excess, hormone levels, quality of stimulus, etc. The nutrient timing is minutiae(sp) at best. You may find this interesting. I have no idea how differently this should be incorporated for a female, but the underlying premise of accruing fatigue, then backing down so that you come back stronger holds true:
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOvertraining.html

The bottom line is if you are making progress then it (whatever you are doing) is working. If it's not, then learn/adapt/change.

 

[BiggT]

Hot Teacher, you're gonna grow from the squats. The progressive increasing of weight from workout to workout causes the body to adapt, as long as you are eating enough. I would suggest you do full ass to the floor squats. This will work your hamstrings as well as quads. Extensions and the like are fluff exercises. Think of them in terms of accessory work. They will not give you the size that progressive resistance training on the squat will. Don't confuse getting sore and pumped from doing a lot of crap with progress.

With legs, it sounds, to me at least, like your trainer is overcomplicating the matter. You want to build muscle, plain and simple, correct? Sumo Squats, aka adductor squats (think that machine where you spread your legs out) train the outer thigh/hip area. They are a specialized movement, and in my opinion serve a purpose in strengthening a weak area, but to build size, I would put the focus on heavy, free weight squats through a full range of motion. Keep a workout journal and track your progress progress. You can add in some higher rep lunges or step ups for assistance, but keep in mind they are totally assistance. If size is your only focus, and you are a beginner, I say the less assistance, the better.

As far as cycling the carbs, again, think for yourself. Understand not only what you're doing it, but why you are doing it. It sounds like your trainer wants you to cycle them in order to provide fuel for the hard workouts, which you'll burn, and then cut them back on non-training and less intense days so that you don't gain excess bodyweight. Get enough protein. Get enough GOOD fats. You can control your weight through carbs. Eat the right kinds. I would suggest you monitor your total calories. If you are putting on too much fat, decrease the daily total by 10% to start and see if you like what you see better. If you aren't gaining enough, up the daily total by about 10% to start, then if you're still not happy up it by another 10%. Just play, it's trial and error getting to know your own body.

Your friend PMed me and I sent her a sample twice a day routine. I did not lose sight of the fact that bodybuilding is your focus. I modified some things that I would suggest for a strength athlete. But, the focus is getting stronger through progressive resistance.

Again, I understand you have lots of free time now, and if you have the itch to train twice a day, get it out of your system, you can progress when doing it right. When school resumes if you still want to add some size, I'd suggest something even more basic than what I sent your friend for a bulking up period.

 

[nsashbl01]

Big T, thanks for the help. I'm the boyfriend here. Her trainer has been really good with focussing on heavy work. At 108lbs she is making good strength gains. Her squats are always atf, both with free squats and if she does smith. Her gym only has one cage, so she has to do smith sometimes. She is getting like 8-12 reps with 135 with no problems. She has only been doing deads for a short time and is reping 165. He goal is 225 by the end of Summer. I agree she needs to do a new split, but the problem I argue with her about is how lean she stays. She is no more than 8%bf, maybe less now. I think it would be easier to gain size while being a little thicker. But she won't have it! Again, thanks for the input....