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you guyss arent gunna believe this shit....

X Man

New member
this is college town we are talking about here so keep this in mind:

say cops come into a house for underage drinking, and see a few blunts laying around, does that give them permision to search an entire house. including locked safes which are like in the corner of a closet,of one person's which may happen to contain a few sustanon amps?

:coffee:
 
bighippie11 said:
yeah...actually they could search the whole thing just for minor possesion. happened to a few of my college buddies
wow i guess i got re asses where i keep my shit then
 
X Man said:
see i think that is eally fucked up.... i didnt know that gave them no holds bar freedom to search for anything and everything including everyones room
Understanding Search and Seizure Law
Learn when the government can invade your privacy to hunt for evidence of a crime.


The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution places limits on the power of the police to make arrests, search people and their property, and seize objects and contraband (such as illegal drugs or weapons). These limits are the bedrock of search and seizure law. This article covers the basic issues that you should know, beginning with an overview of the Fourth Amendment itself.

The Fourth Amendment: Protecting Your Privacy
The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads as follows:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
The search and seizure provisions of the Fourth Amendment are all about privacy. To honor this freedom, the Fourth Amendment protects against "unreasonable" searches and seizures by state or federal law enforcement authorities.

The flip side is that the Fourth Amendment does permit searches and seizures that are considered reasonable. In practice, this means that the police may override your privacy concerns and conduct a search of your home, barn, car, boat, office, personal or business documents, bank account records, trash barrel, or whatever, if:

the police have probable cause to believe they can find evidence that you committed a crime, and a judge issues a search warrant, or
the particular circumstances justify the search without a warrant first being issued.

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectID/DED24689-ADA8-4785-887A0B4A19A694DE/104/143/127/ART/
 
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a bomb said:
They shouldn't be able to access the safe without a warrant. I think.
that is kind of whut i was thinking... maybe something about like plain view... im look for a def answer here, sometime soon,

is there anyone who knows def what the deal is...? or share ur buddies expierences
 
CO B-man said:
Understanding Search and Seizure Law
Learn when the government can invade your privacy to hunt for evidence of a crime.


The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution places limits on the power of the police to make arrests, search people and their property, and seize objects and contraband (such as illegal drugs or weapons). These limits are the bedrock of search and seizure law. This article covers the basic issues that you should know, beginning with an overview of the Fourth Amendment itself.

The Fourth Amendment: Protecting Your Privacy
The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads as follows:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
The search and seizure provisions of the Fourth Amendment are all about privacy. To honor this freedom, the Fourth Amendment protects against "unreasonable" searches and seizures by state or federal law enforcement authorities.

The flip side is that the Fourth Amendment does permit searches and seizures that are considered reasonable. In practice, this means that the police may override your privacy concerns and conduct a search of your home, barn, car, boat, office, personal or business documents, bank account records, trash barrel, or whatever, if:

the police have probable cause to believe they can find evidence that you committed a crime, and a judge issues a search warrant, or
the particular circumstances justify the search without a warrant first being issued.


well because there are a few roachs laying around and there is under drinking going on.. i dont think gives the cops the right to search underneath my bed in the far corner in a locked safe.... whut probaable cause is there, that underage drinking and pot would be there?
 
I studied criminal justice for 2.5 years before changing my major to Engineering. I used to want to be a cop. Kind of ironic now but I am a little on the deviant side in case you did not know. Some laws are just not fair. You can fight your battle in courts but I do not think you will be able to change the interpretation of the fourth amendment. When criminal behaviour is witnessed (i.e. position) your rights were given away. Thats why the first thing a cop does when they come into your house if you are dumb enough to letthem in is search around. If you have illegal things going on make sure they can not see inside because they will be looking over your shoulders to see if they can find something to use as an excuse to enter your premises without needing your permission. Like looking in your windows etc.
 
What would prompt the cops to come into the place in the first place? Is it a party that got out of control? Otherwise, why would blunts be lying around?
 
X Man said:
wow i guess i got re asses where i keep my shit then


They need even less of a reason to search your car so dont assess there just some advice!

An "Unreasonable search & Seizure" would be tearing your walls apart to look for shit! That unfortunately is considerred a reasonable search and siezure as interpretted by the fourth amendment right.
 
njmuscleguy said:
What would prompt the cops to come into the place in the first place? Is it a party that got out of control? Otherwise, why would blunts be lying around?
well cops come into houses all the time where undeage drinking goes on... ya know? and most college student smoke pot as well as drink.... but basically if one is living in those enviornments, u can not keep any juice in ur room or they have no holds bar the right to search ur entire room for it and make u open ur safe?
 
njmuscleguy said:
What would prompt the cops to come into the place in the first place? Is it a party that got out of control? Otherwise, why would blunts be lying around?


All they need is a noise complaint and when they show up noise. They still can not enter unless you let them in. THey will ask unless they see something from outside by looking over your shoulders or smell marijuana or something then they no longer need your permission. Cops will even lie to get in say something like they smelled an odar that was similar to marijuana! They are not all saints. Its Fkd up I know but thats the way it is.
 
If they have reports of underaged drinking and look in and see someone they believe to be underaged that is another reason.
 
aight well after being scared as shit last night with cops pounding on my door which thank god happened to be locked, im gunna keep my shit at my buddys house and just preload shit for the week, i can hide 7 needles well enough that know cop looking for pot and underage drinking could ever bother spending an hour to find them
 
Basically, the cops can come into your house for a number of different reasons. The basic example is that they feel laws are being broken inside the house or someone is in danger. Example, they get called out for loud music, while they're at the door they hear a woman scream from inside the house. They now have the right to enter because they have evidence, the scream, that something unlawful, or a dangerous situation, is happening inside the house. They now have the right to enter. As for the searching safes that are in the house. Technically, they would need a warrant to search them. But, if you don't open it they'll just confiscate it until they go and get a warrant. Also, the cops are very sneaky. My uncle, who's a retired cop, has told me they use to do the following ALL the time and it stands up in court. They come to your house and knock on the door. You answer the door and you're talking to them through your screen door. They ask you to open the screen door so that they can see you better or talk to your better. The minute you do that you've just opened your house to them. Opening the screen door can be interpeted as inviting them into your house. And the minute you open the screen door they'll immediately step into your house and then it's over. I know it's TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! But, he told me it's done ALL the time and it stands up in court.
 
X Man said:
aight well after being scared as shit last night with cops pounding on my door which thank god happened to be locked, im gunna keep my shit at my buddys house and just preload shit for the week, i can hide 7 needles well enough that know cop looking for pot and underage drinking could ever bother spending an hour to find them
so they pounded on your door then what?
did you open it, then they made you open the safe?

or you got it out of the safe b/f you let them in?
 
yamahavolvo said:
Basically, the cops can come into your house for a number of different reasons. The basic example is that they feel laws are being broken inside the house or someone is in danger. Example, they get called out for loud music, while they're at the door they hear a woman scream from inside the house. They now have the right to enter because they have evidence, the scream, that something unlawful, or a dangerous situation, is happening inside the house. They now have the right to enter. As for the searching safes that are in the house. Technically, they would need a warrant to search them. But, if you don't open it they'll just confiscate it until they go and get a warrant. Also, the cops are very sneaky. My uncle, who's a retired cop, has told me they use to do the following ALL the time and it stands up in court. They come to your house and knock on the door. You answer the door and you're talking to them through your screen door. They ask you to open the screen door so that they can see you better or talk to your better. The minute you do that you've just opened your house to them. Opening the screen door can be interpeted as inviting them into your house. And the minute you open the screen door they'll immediately step into your house and then it's over. I know it's TOTAL BULLSHIT!!! But, he told me it's done ALL the time and it stands up in court.

Mostly right but the screen door does not give them permission. Some people dont have a screen door. if you let them in the first thing that the other cop is going to do (the one not talking to you) is start walking around the house. They can do that unless you tell them not to then they have to stay there. Their next move is for them to say it is for their safety and you simply say if you do not feel safe in my house then go back outside where you will feel safer. The permission comes from them seeing into the house and seeing something illegal. They will always ask to come in you do not have to let them but again you have no choice if they see something they believe to be illegal. I also have two uncles one retired one still active in Co Springs and like I said I studied it myself for two and a half years. This is basic stuff first year stuff actually. They do lie!!! nothing illegal about lying unless you are lying to the police (ubstruction of justice) another irony hah!
 
so did they confiscate your gear or what?
 
CO B-man said:
All they need is a noise complaint and when they show up noise. They still can not enter unless you let them in. THey will ask unless they see something from outside by looking over your shoulders or smell marijuana or something then they no longer need your permission. Cops will even lie to get in say something like they smelled an odar that was similar to marijuana! They are not all saints. Its Fkd up I know but thats the way it is.

There is precident for throwing out evidence if the search was for a different contraband which was not found. For instance they say they smelled pot, and no pot or anything that could smell like it was found in the house, the judge may throw out steroids found in the house.

It depends on how good your lawyer is and if you keep your fucking mouth shut instead of spilling everything. Obviously police can not get away with searching anything or anywhere just by claiming to smell pot.

Thats why they use police dogs, to take out the human lying factor. A police dog hitting on an odor gives them a lot more leadway.

But back to the original post - generally, it would be a really bad idea to store gear in a house where a lot of kids party, smoke weed and make noise.
 
THE Plain and simple answer to the question is YES they can and more importantly WILL enter and search whenever they can, and now that they have already found illegal contraband they will most likely continue to harrass you whenever possible. Let's face it "Most" Cops are assholes, and have Huge Authority Complexes and push people around. They are most likely the same guy's that we beat up in H.S. and never got laid or had many friends. Which is the reason that they tend to fuck with college kids that are drinking and have hott Chicks around, Because they were never invited when they were younger and now they have a grudge. I am so Goddamn sick and Tired of Police pushing people around that arn't Criminals Per Se' While there are real Crimes being commited because They Are some Pussy Motherfuckers that hide behind theyre Badge. I Challenge anyone of them Donut Eatin Son's O' Bitches to come get in the ring with me. Guarnteed to have em' either KO'ed or tappin out in 30 sec's. DROLS NEED OXYTOCIN....DROLS NEED CALM DOWN....URGGGHHH
 
drols of steel said:
THE Plain and simple answer to the question is YES they can and more importantly WILL enter and search whenever they can, and now that they have already found illegal contraband they will most likely continue to harrass you whenever possible. Let's face it "Most" Cops are assholes, and have Huge Authority Complexes and push people around. They are most likely the same guy's that we beat up in H.S. and never got laid or had many friends. Which is the reason that they tend to fuck with college kids that are drinking and have hott Chicks around, Because they were never invited when they were younger and now they have a grudge. I am so Goddamn sick and Tired of Police pushing people around that arn't Criminals Per Se' While there are real Crimes being commited because They Are some Pussy Motherfuckers that hide behind theyre Badge. I Challenge anyone of them Donut Eatin Son's O' Bitches to come get in the ring with me. Guarnteed to have em' either KO'ed or tappin out in 30 sec's. DROLS NEED OXYTOCIN....DROLS NEED CALM DOWN....URGGGHHH


I hear you.
 
KD1 said:
There is precident for throwing out evidence if the search was for a different contraband which was not found. For instance they say they smelled pot, and no pot or anything that could smell like it was found in the house, the judge may throw out steroids found in the house.

It depends on how good your lawyer is and if you keep your fucking mouth shut instead of spilling everything. Obviously police can not get away with searching anything or anywhere just by claiming to smell pot.

Thats why they use police dogs, to take out the human lying factor. A police dog hitting on an odor gives them a lot more leadway.

But back to the original post - generally, it would be a really bad idea to store gear in a house where a lot of kids party, smoke weed and make noise.

Two thingas about this post are not true.
Presendence for smelling pot and finding gear or heroine or cocaine or opium or there is no such thing if it is illeal then it is illegal period. They would have discoverred it on a legal search. If they pull you over for suspected drunk driving and search your car because they thought they smelled alcohol but found pot does that mean they have to let you go because they were looking for alcohol. No difference

And the other they use police dogs because they have a keener sense of smell no other reason. Not to take out the cop lying factor.
 
i did not let them into my room. thank god. now after reading all the good information in this thread, and realizing that my house is now a target.

who here thinks it would be best to leave my gear at my buddies house and just draw out like my 7 suspension shots and my three npp/deca shots that im going to need per week.

i think its pretty safe to say that cops coming into a house looking for pot and underage drinking, arent going to take three hours to search my particular room to find 10 preload syringes that are well hidden....?
 
X Man said:
i did not let them into my room. thank god. now after reading all the good information in this thread, and realizing that my house is now a target.

who here thinks it would be best to leave my gear at my buddies house and just draw out like my 7 suspension shots and my three npp/deca shots that im going to need per week.

i think its pretty safe to say that cops coming into a house looking for pot and underage drinking, arent going to take three hours to search my particular room to find 10 preload syringes that are well hidden....?

Here are some pro's and some cons for your situation as follows:
PRO: By Pre-Loading 10 seperate syringes you give your self the opportunity to squirt out the contents of the syringes providing you have enough time.

CON: You now have 10 seperate units that if caught and found will be seperatly analyzed and you will now be charged with 10 seperate counts of posession or worse yet considering the amount of containers quite possibly Posession with intent to deliver, which is a Felony. In that case plan on being kicked out of school among possible jail time.

The solution: Leave everything at a safe house and no matter how inconvenient go there and administer your shots at that location therefore avoiding ever being caught with said gear in your posession. I realize this is inconvienient but I'm sure your Freedom and Education is worth it.
Be Smart Brother, and good luck...Drol's ;)
 
drols of steel said:
CON: You now have 10 seperate units that if caught and found will be seperatly analyzed and you will now be charged with 10 seperate counts of posession or worse yet considering the amount of containers quite possibly Posession with intent to deliver, which is a Felony. In that case plan on being kicked out of school among possible jail time.

I don't believe that's how it's measured. It doesn't matter if its' in one vial or 10 seperate syringes.
To make matters worse. With the new stricter laws, pretty much a mild cycle for one person is concidered intent because of how LE measures everything.
 
drols of steel said:
Here are some pro's and some cons for your situation as follows:
PRO: By Pre-Loading 10 seperate syringes you give your self the opportunity to squirt out the contents of the syringes providing you have enough time.

CON: You now have 10 seperate units that if caught and found will be seperatly analyzed and you will now be charged with 10 seperate counts of posession or worse yet considering the amount of containers quite possibly Posession with intent to deliver, which is a Felony. In that case plan on being kicked out of school among possible jail time.

The solution: Leave everything at a safe house and no matter how inconvenient go there and administer your shots at that location therefore avoiding ever being caught with said gear in your posession. I realize this is inconvienient but I'm sure your Freedom and Education is worth it.
Be Smart Brother, and good luck...Drol's ;)

minus the shitty part of having to go everyday for the firt three week ( because im running susp) i would def do that cause im jut gunna be doing shots every 3 days
 
CO B-man said:
If they pull you over for suspected drunk driving and search your car because they thought they smelled alcohol but found pot does that mean they have to let you go because they were looking for alcohol. No difference

And if it turned out you had no alcohol in your system, the search may well be thrown out in court as insufficient evidence because the story of "smelling alcohol" could not have been true.

Dont tell me Im wrong, you are wrong, I was in an incident just like this and I got off scott free, charges dropped even though I had something illegal in my car ( not saying what ). But I had a lawyer, and I refused to answer ANY questions when I was pulled over. And I hadnt had a sip of alcohol or smoked anything as backed up by tests. The cops had no legitimate reason to search my car, so they did just like you said and made something up. But the charges were thrown out.
 
Also, someone mentioned this earlier. They DO need a warrent to search the locked safe. But believe me, all they have to do is call it in and they will have one in 30 minutes. All the while, not letting you out of their site so ur screwed either way.

Searches involving a car: If the trunk is locked, they would need a warrent to enter it. But once again, all they have to do is call it in and they will get one.

Now let's say a cop has a warrent to search the house and happens to find something in the back yard. If he's smart, he will leave it alone and call in for another warrent. If he grabs it and tries to use it in court without obtaining the 2nd warrent, he fucked. It's not admisable. Just a little FYI for all of you deviants out there.
 
KD1 said:
And if it turned out you had no alcohol in your system, the search may well be thrown out in court as insufficient evidence because the story of "smelling alcohol" could not have been true.

Dont tell me Im wrong, you are wrong, I was in an incident just like this and I got off scott free, charges dropped even though I had something illegal in my car ( not saying what ). But I had a lawyer, and I refused to answer ANY questions when I was pulled over. And I hadnt had a sip of alcohol or smoked anything as backed up by tests. The cops had no legitimate reason to search my car, so they did just like you said and made something up. But the charges were thrown out.


O.k. whatever you say ! I am sure you got off and what you did was very smart not talking. That saved you I am sure. The cops took it too far for the circumstances you were in and I believe you proved that they made it up by not having anything in your system. And to a point that is correct but they did find marijuana in the guys house and they were looking for more marijuana when they discoverred the gear if that is the case then it does not matter. talking about two different things
 
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its a gray area....could it be faught maybe...but because there were illegal substances out in the open it gives probable cause. If they just came for underage drinking and there were no roaches around then they would need a warrent to check the safe. Basically same goes for your car. If your glove box is locked they would need a warrent to go in to the glove box if you said no. But if you say no..then duh your guilty your probably hiding something. Samething in this case. If that person said no you cant then they would have to get a warrent. Its a fine line between probable cause and an illegal search. But they can legeally check anything that isnt locked down under probable cause.
 
Apexx said:
Also, someone mentioned this earlier. They DO need a warrent to search the locked safe. .


i believe that is true... it is a seperate search, further... if there was NO other contraband of any kind in that room and it was YOUR room, there would be no reason for that search warrant to be granted.

Also, how likely is it that the police would go through YOUR ENTIRE HOUSE, because of a couple half smoked joints in an ashtray?
 
Summary
The fourth amendment can be broken down into 2 distinct parts. The first part provides protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, although historically there have been myriad ways in which unreasonable searches were remedied. Modern jurisprudence has afforded the police officers an incentive to respect the amendment.

The second part of the amendment provides for the proper issue of warrants. When warrants are issued, there must be probable cause. Probable cause is tested using the "totality of circumstances" test as defined in Illinois v. Gates, 462 U.S. 213 (1983).

Another way to bifurcate the amendment is to see that one part deals with physical arrests and force by the state (police) and the other part deals with searching and seizing the person's effects: home and personal property.

[edit]
Reasonable expectation of privacy
Not every incident where an officer ascertains information is considered a "search." An officer who views something which is publicly viewable (for instance, by looking through the window of a house from the street) is not conducting a "search" of the house. In Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 (1967), the Supreme Court ruled that there is no search unless an individual has an "expectation of privacy" and the expectation is "reasonable"—that is, it is one that society is prepared to recognize. So, for example, there is generally no search when officers look through garbage because there is no expectation that garbage is private (see California v. Greenwood, 486 U.S. 35 (1988)). Similarly, there is no search where officers monitor what phone numbers an individual dials (Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735 (1979), although Congress has placed statutory restrictions on such monitoring). This doctrine sometimes leads to somewhat unexpected results; in Florida v. Riley, 488 U.S. 445 (1989), the Supreme Court ruled that there was no expectation of privacy (and thus no search) where officers hovered in a helicopter 400 feet above a suspect's house and conducted surveillance.

The Supreme Court has also ruled that there can be no expectation of privacy in illegal activity. Therefore, investigations that reveal only illegal activity (such as some use of drug sniffing dogs) are not searches.

[edit]
Searches and seizures without warrants
A warrant is not necessary for a search or seizure under certain circumstances. Officers may search and seize objects that are in "plain view." Before the search and seizure, however, the officers must have probable cause to believe that the objects are contraband.

Similarly, "open fields"—pastures, open water, woods and other such areas—may be searched without warrant, on the basis that the individuals conducting activities therein had no reasonable expectations of privacy. Contrary to its apparent meaning, the "open fields" doctrine has been expanded to include almost any open space other than the land immediately surrounding a domicile (for instance, in Oliver v. United States 466 U.S. 170 (1984), the police ignored a "no trespassing" sign, trespassed onto the suspect's land without a warrant, followed a path several hundred yards, and discovered a field of marijuana. The Supreme Court ruled that no search had taken place. See also: open fields doctrine.

There are also "exigent circumstances" exceptions to the warrant requirement-for instance, if an officer reasonably believes that a suspect may destroy evidence, he might be permitted to seize the evidence without a warrant.

The Supreme Court has also held that individuals in automobiles have a reduced expectation of privacy, because vehicles generally do not serve as residences or repositories of personal effects. Vehicles may not be randomly stopped and searched; there must be probable cause or reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Items in "plain view" may be seized; areas that could potentially hide weapons may also be searched. With probable cause, police officers may search any area in the vehicle. They may not, however, extend the search to the vehicle's passengers without probable cause to search those passengers.

Under common law, a police officer could arrest an individual (arrests constitute seizures, at least for the purpose of the Fourth Amendment) if that individual committed a misdemeanor in the officer's presence, or if the officer had probable cause to believe that the individual committed a felony. The Supreme Court has applied the common law rule in American jurisprudence. The officer in question must have had probable cause before making the arrest; evidence discovered after the arrest may not be retroactively used to justify the arrest.

The person must also be under arrest to allow a search to be relevant. A person merely detained, such as someone pulled over for a traffic stop, is not "under arrest"; once the traffic ticket is written there is no right to search without permission as no further search could possibly provide any additional evidence regarding the stop. A search without permission after a speeding ticket was written that discovered marijuana was determined to be unlawful under these conditions. Knowles v. Iowa, 525 US 113 (1998)

Another common law rule—that permitting searches incident to an arrest without warrant—has been applied in American law. The justification for such a search is that the arrested individual must be prevented from destroying evidence or using a weapon against the arresting officer. In Trupiano v. United States, 334 U.S. 699 (1948), the Supreme Court held that "a search or seizure without a warrant as an incident to a lawful arrest has always been considered to be a strictly limited right. It grows out of the inherent necessities of the situation at the time of the arrest. But there must be something more in the way of necessity than merely a lawful arrest." In United States v. Rabinowitz, 339 U.S. 56 (1950), the Court reversed its previous ruling, holding that the officers' opportunity to obtain a warrant was not germane to the reasonableness of a search incident to an arrest. The decision suggested that any area within the "immediate control" of the arrestee could be searched, but it did not define the term. In deciding Chimel v. California, 395 U.S. 752 (1969), the Supreme Court elucidated its previous decisions. It held that when an arrest is made, it is reasonable for the officer to search the arrestee for weapons and evidence. Similarly, it was held that it is reasonable for the officer to search the area within the arrestee's immediate control, that is, the area from which the defendant may gain access to a weapon or evidence. A search of the room in which the arrest is made is therefore permissible, but the same is not true of a search of other rooms, as the arrestee would not probably be able to access weapons or evidence in those rooms at the time of arrest.

The reasonable grounds standard is further applied to searches of homes of individuals on probation.

It has been held that searches in public schools require neither warrants nor probable cause. (See New Jersey v. T. L. O., 468 U.S. 325 (1985)). It is merely necessary that the searching officers have reasonable grounds for believing that the search will result in the finding of evidence of illegal activity. Government offices may be searched for evidence of work-related misconduct by government employees on similar grounds. Searches of prison cells are subject to no restraints relating to reasonableness or probable cause; neither are searches conducted at the border (the "border search exception) (see United States v. Ramsey, 431 U.S. 606 (1977); United States v. Montoya de Hernandez, 473 U.S. 531 (1985); United States v. Flores-Montano, 541 U.S. __ (2004)) or searches undertaken as a condition of parole (see Samson v. California, 546 U.S. __ (2006). Finally, a search is reasonable if the target without coercion consents to the search, even if the target is unaware and not told about their right to refuse to cooperate.

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Conditions of searches
In general, a few things have been established. First, in an instance where a person has not been arrested and a search must be conducted in an area where a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy, law enforcement officials are required to gain permission from an arbiter, i.e. the courts, in order to be allowed to search someone. It is, for example, unlawful to force someone to undergo surgery to uncover incriminating evidence because that would interfere with the privacy of the human body. The application of this has been vague, however. Under HIPAA, for example, federal agents are allowed to search medical records through administrative subpoenas, which do not require court approval.

Also, the courts have established that in certain cases, probable cause is not necessary in order to conduct a search. If a police officer suspects you may present a threat to others, he has the right to frisk you on reasonable suspicion (see Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)). If you are driving drunk, you are likewise open to be searched on reasonable suspicion. In the case of random drug tests, no probable cause must be established in order to force you to be tested.

Regarding what level of notification must be provided to those who are to be searched: in some cases, notification of not only being searched, but also what is being searched, is necessary. For example, if you are being provided the service of a pregnancy test, and your sample is used to determine whether or not you have used illicit drugs, that is an illegal means of search if you are not informed. In certain cases the courts have found that where there is reason to believe that notification will lead to the destruction of evidence or the endangerment of lives, the government is not required to notify the searched party. This has been applied in the case of delayed notification, where the government is not required to inform you that you or your residence has been searched. It remains difficult to determine, though, whether certain federal actions are truly legal, or are merely the result of poorly defined legal boundaries.

[edit]
Exclusionary rule
See also: exclusionary rule
At common law, all evidence, no matter how seized, could be admitted in court. In Weeks v. United States, 232 U.S. 383 (1914), however, the Supreme Court adopted the "exclusionary rule," under which evidence seized unlawfully is rendered inadmissible in court. The rule was made applicable to the states in Mapp v. Ohio 367 U.S. 643 (1961).

The exclusionary rule serves primarily to deter police officers from conducting unlawful searches and seizures. It has, however, a number of exceptions. In United States v. Leon, 468 U.S. 897 (1984), the Supreme Court applied the "good faith" rule and held that evidence seized by officers objectively and in good faith relying on a warrant later found to be defective was still admissible. The evidence would still be excluded if an officer dishonestly or recklessly prepares an affidavit forming the basis of the warrant, if the issuing magistrate abandons his neutrality, or if the warrant lacks sufficient particularity. It remains unclear whether the "good faith" exception applies to warrantless seizures. On January 8, 1974, the Supreme Court ruled that grand juries may use illegally obtained evidence in questioning witnesses. United States v. Calandra, 414 U.S. 338.

The Supreme Court has held the rule does not apply in certain situations: (1) probation or parole revocation hearings; (2) tax hearings; (3) deportation hearings; (4) when government officials illegally seize evidence outside the United States; (5) when a "private actor" (i.e., not a State employee) illegally seized the evidence; or (6) when the illegally seized evidence is used to impeach the defendant's testimony. Furthermore, a defendant has standing to object to the admission of unconstitutionally seized evidence only if such seizure violated his own Fourth Amendment rights; a defendant may not assert the rights of a third party.

Closely related to the exclusionary rule is the "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine, under which the government is prohibited from introducing any evidence that was obtained subsequent to and as a result of the illegal search.
 
X Man said:
this is college town we are talking about here so keep this in mind:

say cops come into a house for underage drinking, and see a few blunts laying around, does that give them permision to search an entire house. including locked safes which are like in the corner of a closet,of one person's which may happen to contain a few sustanon amps?

:coffee:

I'm in law school and I had criminal procedure last semester and this is an easy one to answer.

The key issue is how did they get into the house? If the owners of the house consented and allowed them to come in they are screwed. If drugs are in open view (or can be smelled - which is another issue) the police have can execute a protective sweep of the house if they have a reasonable suspicion that there is a danger to their safety.

Now this sweep must be reasonable in duration and scope. The police cannot go through drawers (or safes) for that matter...not yet anyway...

The critical issue that that one the police have seen drugs they have probable cause which (after they hit the protective sweep etc.) they can head to the magistrates office and get a warrant to search the rest of the property - and they can tear it up.
 
my plan is to keep the stuff at a safe house for a couple weeks and let things blow over... then go from there...


i found out that the one kid whos room they search, where they found a roach, had a safe and the officer admitted he needed a search warrant to open the safe...


legality this legailty that... i would rather now put myself in the postion where i needed a hot shot lawyer to get me out of something.. i simply dont have the money :worried:
 
X Man said:
this is college town we are talking about here so keep this in mind:

say cops come into a house for underage drinking, and see a few blunts laying around, does that give them permision to search an entire house. including locked safes which are like in the corner of a closet,of one person's which may happen to contain a few sustanon amps?

:coffee:
No. If it's in plain sight, they do not need a warrant. They cannot search locked safes because of a few blunts they stumbled upon unless someone consents. What they do is tell you to open it without telling you your consent is entirely voluntarily. Then they later tell the Judge you consented to the search. Who in their right mind would consent to a search if they knew the cops would find something illegal inside? Buy the book Legal Muscle by Rick Collins. It's a real book, not an e-book, and the writing and editing is first rate. You can also buy a book on Search and Seizure by West Publishing but it's written for lawyers and costs about $100. Rick Collins's book is written for laymen by a lawyer and costs a lot less and is much better done. (The West S&S handbook is merely a synopsis of all the US Supreme Court and Federal Appellate Court caselaw, whereas Rick's book is based on a lot of real world cases and situations.) Don't expect to get an accurate answer by a bunch of EF members who are not lawyers!
 
BBkingpin said:
No. If it's in plain sight, they do not need a warrant. They cannot search locked safes because of a few blunts they stumbled upon unless someone consents. What they do is tell you to open it without telling you your consent is entirely voluntarily. Then they later tell the Judge you consented to the search. Who in their right mind would consent to a search if they knew the cops would find something illegal inside? Buy the book Legal Muscle by Rick Collins. It's a real book, not an e-book, and the writing and editing is first rate. You can also buy a book on Search and Seizure by West Publishing but it's written for lawyers and costs about $100. Rick Collins's book is written for laymen by a lawyer and costs a lot less and is much better done. (The West S&S handbook is merely a synopsis of all the US Supreme Court and Federal Appellate Court caselaw, whereas Rick's book is based on a lot of real world cases and situations.) Don't expect to get an accurate answer by a bunch of EF members who are not lawyers![/QUOTE


so if i have a locked safe in the corner of my room underneath my bed, they would need a warrant to open it or my consent?
 
X Man said:
BBkingpin said:
No. If it's in plain sight, they do not need a warrant. They cannot search locked safes because of a few blunts they stumbled upon unless someone consents. What they do is tell you to open it without telling you your consent is entirely voluntarily. Then they later tell the Judge you consented to the search. Who in their right mind would consent to a search if they knew the cops would find something illegal inside? Buy the book Legal Muscle by Rick Collins. It's a real book, not an e-book, and the writing and editing is first rate. You can also buy a book on Search and Seizure by West Publishing but it's written for lawyers and costs about $100. Rick Collins's book is written for laymen by a lawyer and costs a lot less and is much better done. (The West S&S handbook is merely a synopsis of all the US Supreme Court and Federal Appellate Court caselaw, whereas Rick's book is based on a lot of real world cases and situations.) Don't expect to get an accurate answer by a bunch of EF members who are not lawyers![/QUOTE


so if i have a locked safe in the corner of my room underneath my bed, they would need a warrant to open it or my consent?
Yes. Unless they have a warrant they have no business looking under your bed.
 
BBkingpin said:
Yes. Unless they have a warrant they have no business looking under your bed.
and the fact that a blunt and beer bottles were on the table, does not give them freedom to search anything that isnt right in plain view in my room?

btw my room was locked and they didnt kick it down or nething, so obviously they werent going to enter my room because it was locked....


also do you think after what they saw, they would come back with a search warrant looking to search more of the house, despite the fact their first sweep came up with nothing but some paranfanillia
 
Dude 1 word........ PROBABLE CAUSE!!! Even if they open the door and smell marijuana they can bust down the door and once they doo they can search EVERYTHING!! They can look through the window and see it on the table then break down the door lie nd say they smelled it trust me I know all these laws because I in the past had too!! I know for a fact even they could take your dog if they hve probable cause that you bought the dog with money made by selling drugs!! No SHIt
 
wow alot of good info in here and also alot of misinfo.....keep in mind laws are different in different states as well....i was in the police academy in PA and before i got into my current job i was second in the class grade wise (fuck that first test LMAO it was way too broad a topic sorry im still pissed)
in any event the underage drinking is a SUMMARY OFFENSE they kick your door in for that lmao whether they looked in the window and saw it or not they are in DEEP SHIT and a law suit should be forthcoming (on your part)...and ANYTHING found during that search is in admisible in court whether it was illegal or not

now if they were let in and things were in plain sight then you are in trouble as the guy that mentioned a protective sweep is quite correct...they can NOT open a locked safe under any circumstance in this case whatsoever without a search warrant listing EXACTLY where they are searching and what they BELIEVE to be in there.......

criminal justice BRIEFLY delves into policing and laws and what not but doesnt fully get into being a cop otherwise you wouldnt need the ACT 120 here in PA to become a cop...so while you may have taken CJ it doesnt mean you know everything in reference to policing...again states differ on some things as well and im commenting on what i know of PA which in your case may differ but here underage is a summary offense and really not that big of a deal in the broad range of laws.......so kicking down the door for that would be lawsuit city.....

good luck
 
I believe if its in plain site, and within the cops immediate area its searchable. But a locked safe should be off limits because it is of no harm to them and its not open. The best thing to do, and this is almost impossible in your situation is have every door shut and locked and tell the cops everyone with a room is a renter. That way they can only search openly what they witness as a crime, and would need a warrant for every room.

The next problem here is people siting Federal Law. Supreme Court rulings and such carry no weight to the average cop, at least most Supreme Court rulings. Yes some obvious rulings are paramount in everyday police duties, but for the most part local cops can ignore most Federal laws and Supreme Court rulings, theres just to many to keep track of and up to date on to follow. Heres what usually happens. A person gets searched, legally or illegally by a local cop. The cop finds something....bam you need a lawyer...bam your spending money to protect yourself, even though the search was illegal. The next thing you know the municipal judge finds you guilty. He does not care that you were searched illegally, you and your lawyer have the burden of proof. He issues you a fine, maybe probation, maybe jail time if it falls under local sentencing guidelines. OK you have already spent $$$$ thousands defending yourself, and now its up to your atty to appeal your conviction to a higher court. The state level courts then take a look at the charges or conviction, depending on how deep your pockets are to pay your atty and keep you out of jail, and then you might get your conviction overturned. If the state courts side with the local courts then, depending on how deep your pockets are you can appeal to a higher court on the grounds that your constitutional rights were violated. By this time you have spent umpteen thousands of dollars all beacause some local douchebag cop violated your constitutional rights. Can you see where Im going with this?? Cops know this stuff, and their job is to make you spend or lose as much money as possible regardless of what they did was right or wrong. Stupid people don't realize this, its all a money game..i.e. fines, probation, jail time, it all cost you money in the long run. All they have to say is I had reasonable suspicion and was protecting the safety of myself and my fellow officers.

The best thing to do is FLY under the RADAR! So you can save your money for another cycle!!!

L8R, J
 
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so whut i am gathering is if the safe is locked and out of plain site.... and (i make sure that the cops know i at least somewhat know my shit) and tell the cops that they need a search warrant to search the safe
(if they do find it)


how long does it take for them to get a search warrant...?and they just happened to stumble upon it... so whut real suspicion is there, that there is something illegal in there
 
X Man said:
so whut i am gathering is if the safe is locked and out of plain site.... and (i make sure that the cops know i at least somewhat know my shit) and tell the cops that they need a search warrant to search the safe
(if they do find it)


how long does it take for them to get a search warrant...?and they just happened to stumble upon it... so whut real suspicion is there, that there is something illegal in there

ok bud
here goes
they can get a search warrant rather quickly if they really want it, if its locked and out of plain sight they NEED the search warrant...if you have any doubt that they can get a warrant then either

A. get the shit out of there someway (not garbage cuz once it leaves the curtilage of your home its fair game and no warrant is needed)
B. get your attorney and say NOTHING to the cops NO MATTER WHAT (cuz they can do whatever they want to get a confession)
c. all of the above

good luck
 
boops said:
ok bud
here goes
they can get a search warrant rather quickly if they really want it, if its locked and out of plain sight they NEED the search warrant...if you have any doubt that they can get a warrant then either

A. get the shit out of there someway (not garbage cuz once it leaves the curtilage of your home its fair game and no warrant is needed)
B. get your attorney and say NOTHING to the cops NO MATTER WHAT (cuz they can do whatever they want to get a confession)
c. all of the above

good luck
is it normal for them toget a search warrantt on a random search of a house in a random room where they happen to stumble upon a safe... its not like its feds whove been staking something out for months... im saying just local cops looking to bust some small time pot dealer or under age drinking party
 
they cannot open the safe bbk and apexx are exactly right. they would have to get a warrant for that and come back. there would be no reason. i would eat that shit alive, then again come on man, you can't have roids in an environment like that. keep the blunts away, who let the cops in. i never do. go outside and talk to them. and if you let them in put away the goddamn contraband. the first mistake was ever letting them in. i would have demanded a warrant for that. just having loud music does not allow them to come in. at u of a they tried pulling that shit and most people will do whatever they say. if you step up and demand warrants and act like you know your rights these things will not happen. good luck, i would not pre load syringes, i'd keep your huge stash of pinz at your boys house, and any un opened vials, but whatever you are using keep. i'd rather get caught with a few vials i'm using and just enough needles for me, rather than pre loaded syringes that they will claim are going to be sold or some bullshit
 
bruce410 said:
they cannot open the safe bbk and apexx are exactly right. they would have to get a warrant for that and come back. there would be no reason. i would eat that shit alive, then again come on man, you can't have roids in an environment like that. keep the blunts away, who let the cops in. i never do. go outside and talk to them. and if you let them in put away the goddamn contraband. the first mistake was ever letting them in. i would have demanded a warrant for that. just having loud music does not allow them to come in. at u of a they tried pulling that shit and most people will do whatever they say. if you step up and demand warrants and act like you know your rights these things will not happen. good luck, i would not pre load syringes, i'd keep your huge stash of pinz at your boys house, and any un opened vials, but whatever you are using keep. i'd rather get caught with a few vials i'm using and just enough needles for me, rather than pre loaded syringes that they will claim are going to be sold or some bullshit

i did not let them in... i was in my room asleep... the kids upstairs let them...i know that they got a major eye opener last night, but they were drunk and really didnt know whut was going on i dont think....


either way i never would have let them in my house to begin with either, and i agree with everything else you said, BUT i still gotta have my juice man! and the person i trust the most is myself, thats why i have a hard time leaving it anyplace else.

thats why this whole situation is so fucked up for me, and i wanna make sure that as long as its locked and hidden in my room, the cop would need a warrant and these local cops are looking for underage drinking and pot possesion.
 
yea they would need to get a warrant on the grounds that you were underage and stashing liquor in your safe, or stashing weed in there. thats gonna be pretty tough to pull off for a minor bust like that. i'd make sure no one knows what you have in there. so do you live in a frat house or what.
 
bruce410 said:
yea they would need to get a warrant on the grounds that you were underage and stashing liquor in your safe, or stashing weed in there. thats gonna be pretty tough to pull off for a minor bust like that. i'd make sure no one knows what you have in there. so do you live in a frat house or what.
i got u in PM bro.. thanx... i would say this thread could just get deleted, cause i started to ramble, but there is a lotta good info in here..

btw all i had in the safe was cookies my grandma made me :chomp:
 
Say nothing, admit nothing, keep the cops out of your house, and let them do their job, thats what they are being paid to do. They try scaring into talking so they have reasonable suspicion. I had a bro that got busted with a little coke, and by the time the cops were done with him, he actually took them(the cops) to his house where he had a large 2 liter of coke. He went to prison, all because he opened his mouth and showed the cops what they wanted to see. He would never have went to prison if he kept his mouth shut.

NEVER..NEVER..NEVER make a cops job easier. They are human, when it comes to warrants and things of that nature its all about the time and paperwork involved, and most cops don't want to do the paperwork for minimal BS, like a locked safe possibly with or without something illegal inside. Remember never give a cop a reason to go looking.


L8R, J

[email protected]
 
CO B-man said:
I studied criminal justice for 2.5 years before changing my major to Engineering. I used to want to be a cop. Kind of ironic now but I am a little on the deviant side in case you did not know. Some laws are just not fair. You can fight your battle in courts but I do not think you will be able to change the interpretation of the fourth amendment. When criminal behaviour is witnessed (i.e. position) your rights were given away. Thats why the first thing a cop does when they come into your house if you are dumb enough to letthem in is search around. If you have illegal things going on make sure they can not see inside because they will be looking over your shoulders to see if they can find something to use as an excuse to enter your premises without needing your permission. Like looking in your windows etc.

Okay, no time to read this entire thread. Here's the deal: I was a cop. Get a halfway decent lawyer. More than likely, it will get thrown out if they didn't bother to obtain a search warrant. (This is rule #1 for officers in this situation, and alot don't do it. I've seen many many cases get tossed because of it).
 
X Man said:
this is college town we are talking about here so keep this in mind:

say cops come into a house for underage drinking, and see a few blunts laying around, does that give them permision to search an entire house. including locked safes which are like in the corner of a closet,of one person's which may happen to contain a few sustanon amps?

:coffee:

probable cause.
 
Here's a flick that tells you the right way and the wrong way to handle police encounters on the road, on foot, and in your home. It's long, but watching it all the way through may save you or someone you care about a trip to jail and thousands of dollars in legal expenses/fines. Pay close attention how different the outcome of each scenario is based upon the responses of the peeps getting busted.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?e...m/video/search?ei=UTF-8&p=aclu+avoid+arrested
 
They could have just smelled the weed and came in, didn't really have to see it.

and co-b man, I have a BSME, what you studying?
 
bebop said:
Haven't you guys been watching the news. There's a bill being passed as we speak about this kinda stuff. More rights and freedoms are being taken away erery year in America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6prNQZmmuI
I agree with our rights being taken no matter what party is running shit....even though we elect them they feel we are to stupid to think for ourselves (True in many cases!) I actually think this bill is so if they are already busting say a drug dealer and he has firearms as well the charges for the firearms still stand even though thats not what the warrent was issued for. What I think is fucked that our fuckin DEA went into Canada and busted Marc Emery (Pot seed dealer) and the canadien Gov let it happen even though he has paid over $500,000 in income taxes as a Pot seed dealer! WTF! Both goverments are fucked up on this. I do not care about pot seed dealers. ( I love them actually!) 98 million americans have tried pot! 1/3 of the population! I care about the fact that some of the 911 terrorist came through Canada! We really need to focus on the big issues! Before we all get dead.


Quad
 
drrman said:
They could have just smelled the weed and came in, didn't really have to see it.

and co-b man, I have a BSME, what you studying?


I graduated in 1997 with a BS in Engineering I left Criminal Justice a long long time ago

Civil/Structural but kind of only half using my degree!
 
CO B MAN is right. The key words here are PROBABLE CAUSE, you gave them probable cause when you let them see illegal drugs laying on your coffee table. Its the same way if you are pulled over and refuse them a search of your vehicle, all they do is get a K-9 and say the dog detected something this now gives them PROBABLE CAUSE to search you entire vehicle.
 
BigCracker said:
Here's a flick that tells you the right way and the wrong way to handle police encounters on the road, on foot, and in your home. It's long, but watching it all the way through may save you or someone you care about a trip to jail and thousands of dollars in legal expenses/fines. Pay close attention how different the outcome of each scenario is based upon the responses of the peeps getting busted.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?e...m/video/search?ei=UTF-8&p=aclu+avoid+arrested


Good stuff Right there Cracker!
 
krishna said:
Cops do what they want bro.


THATS EXACTLY what i tell everyone. They do whatever the fuck they want to do and you have to pay a lawyer out the ass to prove they did something wrong, either fucking way you lose
 
X Man said:
well because there are a few roachs laying around and there is under drinking going on.. i dont think gives the cops the right to search underneath my bed in the far corner in a locked safe.... whut probaable cause is there, that underage drinking and pot would be there?

You need to cut a deal because the long and short of it is you're busted. See if you can get probation or something if you cop a plea but you're not going to get it thrown out because you don't think the cops should have done a search when they clearly saw drugs in plan view.

And get yourself a good lawyer. Beg borrow or steal the money but get one. The court will provide you with an attorney but the Constitution says you can have an appointed attorney but it doesn't say you can have a good one.
 
CO B-man said:
Good stuff Right there Cracker!


The only thing is, most people choke when they get in these situations. I remember about a yr ago this girl and I were discussing what to do if caught w/ weed in your pocket. I explained to her the most positive way to react in this kind of situation. I went over it in detail because her old man was a dealer and I knew the situation might arise someday where she should be prepared. Anyway, not less than a week later the cops showed up at her apt. and she did the exact opposite of everything I told her to do. A lot of people just fear 50 too much I guess?

So for all of you smart guys, what would you do if you got caught by the cops with a pocketfull of drugs???
 
KD1 said:
There is precident for throwing out evidence if the search was for a different contraband which was not found. For instance they say they smelled pot, and no pot or anything that could smell like it was found in the house, the judge may throw out steroids found in the house.

It depends on how good your lawyer is and if you keep your fucking mouth shut instead of spilling everything. Obviously police can not get away with searching anything or anywhere just by claiming to smell pot.

Something similar happened to me. Let your (or your buddy's) lawyer know that they werent there for steroids and it can be considered an illegal search and seizure. Did they give you a list of what was confiscated?
 
Apexx said:
I don't believe that's how it's measured. It doesn't matter if its' in one vial or 10 seperate syringes.
To make matters worse. With the new stricter laws, pretty much a mild cycle for one person is concidered intent because of how LE measures everything.

You would get possession of a controlled substance and possession of hypodermic needles without a prescription.

Then they would nail you with distribution if you were being an asshole or if you have an obscene amount (like lots of dbol).
 
justinjones1963 said:
The critical issue that that one the police have seen drugs they have probable cause which (after they hit the protective sweep etc.) they can head to the magistrates office and get a warrant to search the rest of the property - and they can tear it up.

To add to this, you wouldnt want to tell a cop to "go get a warrant" anyway. In that case they will try to book you for everything. The best thing to do is to be cooperative (all the while NOT admitting to anything) be as nice as possible to them and hopefully they wont nail you for too much. Then fight it in court and depending on the circumstance you can get out of it. You never want to go blow for blow with the cops because they will come out on top at the end.
 
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