Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Wtf !
- Thread starter Canuck4
- Start date
D
DaddyX
Guest
why is every newbie thinking they need any more than say 500mg of test ?........shit 250mg of test for 10 wks is enough for a first time or 400mg of EQ. this shit is getting out of hand 
D
DaddyX
Guest
Canuck4 said:They dont know any better.
No research, they just wanna jump in and whatever happens
thats right, it's really sad. newbies please start reading and researching
under_dawg
New member
Daddy X...just curious...is 400 Eq the minimum you'd run? i was thinking about 250 Eq for a first. and would you stack it with d-bol or just stick with Eq?
UD
UD
under_dawg
New member
sorry...i should mention i planned on doing Eq because it seems to be an inexpensive drug, and i heard it is very mild as far as sides are concerned...any suggestions for a noob to the juice but not to the gym?
UD
UD
DaddyX said:why is every newbie thinking they need any more than say 500mg of test ?........shit 250mg of test for 10 wks is enough for a first time or 400mg of EQ. this shit is getting out of hand
Because school is out.
They expect everything to happen NOW.
They are not willing to put in the time, discipline, and effort involved.
Because they lack long-term experience in training, they have not much of a concept of wat works and why. With unrealistic expectations, they belive that high doses of gear are the Solution to getting fit, ripped, shredded and massive, yesterday.
Oh, and because school is out.
If only their parents knew what they were doing on the computer, LOL.
Silent Method
New member
I've seen research that supports the theory that the muscle building effects of supraphysiological levels of testosterone breach a sort of threshold at approximately 500 mg per week. Lean muscle gains seen from 500 mg per week cycles are exponentially greater than those realized at lower doses.
Therefore, I'd advise 500 mg per week to be a good minimal starting dose of testosterone for a newbie. However, the use of drug stacks may lead me to reconsider.
Therefore, I'd advise 500 mg per week to be a good minimal starting dose of testosterone for a newbie. However, the use of drug stacks may lead me to reconsider.
under_dawg
New member
i'm looking to put on some size...
i'd like to put on and keep around 10-15 lbs of lean mass...although i'd rather make smaller gains that i'll keep over the long run. the LAST thing i want to do is blow up with a quick 30lbs and end up losing 20!
UD
i'd like to put on and keep around 10-15 lbs of lean mass...although i'd rather make smaller gains that i'll keep over the long run. the LAST thing i want to do is blow up with a quick 30lbs and end up losing 20!
UD
Silent Method
New member
With some drugs this is absolutely normal. 10 solid pounds of muscle is 10 solid pounds of muscle. The kicker is that some people fail to recognize water retention for what it is.under_dawg said:
under_dawg
New member
exactly....but i'd rather avoid the bloat...so iguess my question is for my goals you reccommend 500mg Eq/week? i'd like to keep the doses to a minimum to avoid sides... and will i have to deal with any bloating?
UD
UD
under_dawg
New member
...and sorry DaddyX for hijacking this thread...but it's still kinda on topic right? this way we can maybe throw together a basic outline for all newbies and the right way to start juicing when the time is right???
UD
UD
Silent Method
New member
Gime your stats, including bodyfat. Give me the same for last year and the year before. How's your diet, ho do you train, and what are your goals?under_dawg said:
under_dawg
New member
in the last two years went from about 155 to 205 and kinda lean right now...not sure about bodyfat but still got the abs....
diet...eating around 3500 calories a day and about 300g of Protien a day.
Training split: currently back to 5 days per week a bodypart per day...weights seem to be leveling off...this is after needsizes 5X5 routine for a while...i think i'm gonna rotate between the two for the next little while.
would like to get to around 225-230 eventually...maybe someday compete...
UD
diet...eating around 3500 calories a day and about 300g of Protien a day.
Training split: currently back to 5 days per week a bodypart per day...weights seem to be leveling off...this is after needsizes 5X5 routine for a while...i think i'm gonna rotate between the two for the next little while.
would like to get to around 225-230 eventually...maybe someday compete...
UD
Silent Method
New member
This is all I need. At a lean 25 pounds per year for two years, you are making gains at a phenomenal rate. You have a genetic gift my friend. You have NO need for steroids at this time.under_dawg said:
Unless of course you're still physically immature and still growing - in which case you still have no need for drugs. How old are you?
brotheriron
New member
250mg test per week is a waste. Will shut down all natural production and will not give any benefits over natural levels of a healthy young male. Thats why at least 500mg per week is reccomended, preferably 750mg.
Bro
Bro
under_dawg
New member
that's the thing though...for the last couple of months, the growth has slowed and is minimal!
-brotheriron why do you say that? wouldn't anything above natural test levels be of benefit??
UD
-brotheriron why do you say that? wouldn't anything above natural test levels be of benefit??
UD
Silent Method
New member
Then take a year or two to evaluate other training methods and diets.under_dawg said:
Read my first post in the thread.under_dawg said:
under_dawg
New member
oh...sorry...lol...i stand corrected. so when do you reccommend starting a cycle? when do you know you're ready? i could potentially spend the rest of my life trying different diets and training methods? how do i know when i'm ready?
UD
UD
Silent Method
New member
How old are you? How much have you put into finding optimal TRAINING and DIET cycles for you?under_dawg said:
under_dawg
New member
I am 24 and have been training on and off since 18...seriously for a couple of years, was injured in a car accident and am back strong for the last two years....and I appreciate this help Silent, i hope you don't think i'm an ungrateful noob as i think Nelson said "trying to be ronnie coleman by friday"....i take my diet and training very seriously...
UD
UD
Last edited:
D
DaddyX
Guest
brotheriron said:
wrong - not a waste at all. on a first cycle one can make great gains with 250mg of test. i would recommend 500mg myself but 250 would work as well. shit i mean you do deca for 10-14 days you said, talk about a stupid waste of time
DaddyX said:
Yeah, you can make gains off 250mg of SUST or 200mg of Deca a week...but these are LONG ACTING DRUGS and they tend to build up in the system...so althought the first weeks are wasted, at one point, the drugs have build up to a certain level conductive for real growth
D
DaddyX
Guest
BigAndy69 said:
thats what im saying
Silent Method
New member
Just understand that the plunge is a big step - and there are side effects to deal with. If you're going to hit a cycle, you're going to hit a cycle. Make sure you give it hell, through intense training and strict diet, if you do run one.under_dawg said:
As for what you run, I really can't comment much on EQ doses for a first timer. I will say that I recomend a first timer limit himself to one base drug. For a first timer, the only stack I'd recomend might be suitable ancillary drugs.
under_dawg
New member
silent...just out of curiosity...what was your first cycle? any regrets? what would you do differently?
UD
UD
Silent Method
New member
I planned 500 mg of omnadren for 8 weeks, but I had to cut it to 6 weeks for reasons beyond my control (having nothing to do with complications).under_dawg said:
I ran 25 mg of proviron per day three weeks on, then nolva at 10 mg a day for 10 days, then back to three weeks of proviron and so forth.
I used traditional clomid for recovery together with high dose phosphatidyl serine and creatine as anti-catabolics post-cycle.
If I had it to do over again I would have kept the test, the proviron, and the dosages, but:
#1. Not used 20 guage 10cc pins.
#2. Timed it so I wouldn't have had to cut it short.
#3. Planned on 10 weeks.
#4. Paid much closer attention to diet and training.
brotheriron
New member
I didnt say 250 of a long acting ester. I said 250mg per week of test is a waste and it is.
14 days of decca isnt a waste, when you know what your doing. Sadly you obviously dont.
I aint stupid, and like i said i listen to the people that know, not some 200lbs bloke who knows nothing
Bro
14 days of decca isnt a waste, when you know what your doing. Sadly you obviously dont.
I aint stupid, and like i said i listen to the people that know, not some 200lbs bloke who knows nothing
Bro
D
DaddyX
Guest
brotheriron said:
i think we both know who knows more about the game bro. 250mg of test isnt a wast anyway you look at it, long or short ester. test is test. and saying "i aint stupid", geez you could of fooled me. btw 14 days of DECA is a waste. You say it is not a waste if you know what your doing, what magic do you know ? sadly enough i guarentee i know 10x more than you bro......im out
It never stops! See: http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=99390&highlight=pissed
J
Juice Authority
Guest
Quadsweep said:
Classic opening remarks. Great thread. A definite must read. It should be a sticky.
brotheriron
New member
Look daddyX,
We differ in our approach, i stated that to start with. Ever since youve just interuppted all my comments with a remark saying im stupid. Grow up mate.
Here is my stats: 22yrs 5'9 258lbs today. 19.5in arms, 31in quads 20in calves. Remember im 22, just finished being a junior.
I train with my coach, who just happens to be one of britain's best, who represented our country in the world championships in seville last month and placed. When i see one of you guys at any of the world finals, or the universe later this year you can come say hello. Then you can call me stupid. But there's no need. Ive got to where i am today with my 'stupid' cycles. Im no genetic freak either. I believe that spending 6 months on gear is stupid, but i dont cherp up everytime someone suggests it calling them stupid. I have more respect.
I never said my cycle was 14 days of decca. Thats just the length of time i use decca at the start of a cycle to help my joints etc. I keep cycles to 6 weeks max usually, and 2 weeks of decca lasts for 6 weeks. Thats why i do high doses.
There's too much bitchin on this board, and too much ass lickin to the mods. I believe in freedom of speech, either for the masses or against them. But not name calling, i had enough at school.
And I definatley aint stupid, just been accepted for my PhD! LOL.
Bro
We differ in our approach, i stated that to start with. Ever since youve just interuppted all my comments with a remark saying im stupid. Grow up mate.
Here is my stats: 22yrs 5'9 258lbs today. 19.5in arms, 31in quads 20in calves. Remember im 22, just finished being a junior.
I train with my coach, who just happens to be one of britain's best, who represented our country in the world championships in seville last month and placed. When i see one of you guys at any of the world finals, or the universe later this year you can come say hello. Then you can call me stupid. But there's no need. Ive got to where i am today with my 'stupid' cycles. Im no genetic freak either. I believe that spending 6 months on gear is stupid, but i dont cherp up everytime someone suggests it calling them stupid. I have more respect.
I never said my cycle was 14 days of decca. Thats just the length of time i use decca at the start of a cycle to help my joints etc. I keep cycles to 6 weeks max usually, and 2 weeks of decca lasts for 6 weeks. Thats why i do high doses.
There's too much bitchin on this board, and too much ass lickin to the mods. I believe in freedom of speech, either for the masses or against them. But not name calling, i had enough at school.
And I definatley aint stupid, just been accepted for my PhD! LOL.
Bro
brotheriron
New member
Oh, and my training partner/coach/best mate trained with Ian Harrisson for years, if any of you remeber him, and Paul Borresson suggested the short cycles, thats where i got all my knowledge. Which happens to follow nelsons line of approach, which is probably why i get shot down by someone everytime i suggest something different.
Quick, run sheep or you'll lose your heard.
Bro
Quick, run sheep or you'll lose your heard.
Bro
The_Eviscerator
New member
DaddyX said:
I think we are going to see a lot more of these types of posts now that you have to pay to search the site.
gettnlarge
New member
brotheriron agree with u totally, some people don"t like change or are to close minded to try something new. post back would like to know what type of training you prefer[sets,reps,etc.]
When you start leveling off is when you know you've reached your peak. When you cant get over your current bench and squat max. When your weight stabilizws out for 6 months. The perfect newbie cycle IMO.............
200 cyp or enanethate for 8 weeks
200 eq for 10 weeks.
Like Quad, I used 250 of sust a week and for only 6 weeks on my first cycle and gained over 20lbs. You seem to have good genetics like me and quad so I think you will have great gains off of my proposed cycle.
As far as babbabuee, yes, I think that is way to much for a second timer. You should try to stay around 500 for your second cycle. How many mgs did you use on your first. Also, I dont agree with using d-bol on a first cycle. BamBam
200 cyp or enanethate for 8 weeks
200 eq for 10 weeks.
Like Quad, I used 250 of sust a week and for only 6 weeks on my first cycle and gained over 20lbs. You seem to have good genetics like me and quad so I think you will have great gains off of my proposed cycle.
As far as babbabuee, yes, I think that is way to much for a second timer. You should try to stay around 500 for your second cycle. How many mgs did you use on your first. Also, I dont agree with using d-bol on a first cycle. BamBam
D
DaddyX
Guest
gettnlarge said:
im not closed minded about new approaches to things or anything. im just saying 10-14 days of deca ? really thats just a waste of time. if it works for him some magical when then hey, thats great, i wish him luck
brotheriron
New member
I do what works for me. Sets are about 3-7 hard sets per muscle group, depends on which muscle. Reps are between 8 and 12, but often go lower on quads, do sets of 5 reps for squats. Seems to work. Then again ive always been a good squater. Train 4 times per week. nothing out of the ordinary. Just eat well and get good advice about the pharmacology. Its not brain surgery! Do what works, not what works for everyone else. Dont get too hung up about the technical side if your a newbie, find what works for you. Then stick to it. When you get more advanced then you may need to change things. diet is number 1, training number 2 and then drugs, not the other way around!
Bro
Bro
D
DaddyX
Guest
brotheriron said:
im aware of that bro. You know magic, deca works great for 10-14 days for you
D
Deleted member 33117
Guest
Damn, I feel bad about being called a 200 ibs bloke who knows nothing. I weighed exactally 200 ibs the day I took the photo in my avatar. Anyway, I made unbelievable gains on 250 mg of test/200 mg deca as a newbie. I've still got stretch marks from that cycle.
brotheriron
New member
Maybe people misunderstood my post. I didnt mean every 200lbs bloke knows nothing. I just said i dont trust the advice from a 200lbs guy on this board, who i cant be sure of. Who would you trust, a 320lbs pro or a guy you've never seen on the internet?
It wasnt a dig at people who are 200lbs. A good friend of mine competes at 200lbs, and i wouldnt like to stand next to him on stage even if i were 300lbs. Then again he's only 5'4.
But you get my point, my advice comes person to person, then i may check on a board like this to get another perspective. But dont believe everthing you hear on the net.
Oh, poantrex, tell your mate yeah 1g of sus a day is a good first cycle. If he really wants to, or you could just read this fuckin post.
Bro
It wasnt a dig at people who are 200lbs. A good friend of mine competes at 200lbs, and i wouldnt like to stand next to him on stage even if i were 300lbs. Then again he's only 5'4.
But you get my point, my advice comes person to person, then i may check on a board like this to get another perspective. But dont believe everthing you hear on the net.
Oh, poantrex, tell your mate yeah 1g of sus a day is a good first cycle. If he really wants to, or you could just read this fuckin post.
Bro
brotheriron said:
Lee preist is just over 200lbs on stage..how about Lee Lebrada or Shawn Ray. I know where you are coming from on this but I do disagree about trusting a pro. I know soem that are none to smart and they have good trainers and diet people working for them. I disagree about 1G test on a first cycle. 1/2 that would do fine. I did 1/4 that and gained 27# and kept 20...with no HCG Clomid or anything.
Quad
brotheriron
New member
You being serious quad? the guy asked about a 1g test PER DAY for first cycle, i was taking the piss. I dont believe 1g a week is right for a newbie, nevermind a day!
I wouldnt trust a pro, only because hes a friend, not just because he's a pro that i trust him. But i do trust my friends more than people i dont know, especially when youve never seen them, that was my point.
I dont doubt that there are some very well informed people on this board, thats obvious in some threads, but there also happens to be a lot of guys that will tell you something without any thought or reason behind it. Just saying you've got to be careful who you listen to, at the end of the day mistakes can cost lives.
Bro
I wouldnt trust a pro, only because hes a friend, not just because he's a pro that i trust him. But i do trust my friends more than people i dont know, especially when youve never seen them, that was my point.
I dont doubt that there are some very well informed people on this board, thats obvious in some threads, but there also happens to be a lot of guys that will tell you something without any thought or reason behind it. Just saying you've got to be careful who you listen to, at the end of the day mistakes can cost lives.
Bro
D
DaddyX
Guest
poantrex said:
what r u talking about ? i hope your joking. no first cycle should be anymore of 500mg of anything - period
D
DaddyX
Guest
under_dawg said:
i would say 400mg is the minimum for myself, works good for me. however i think 300mg would work as well. i would say 300mg would be the minimum
Similar threads
