Why I don't believe in God. Those who believe, please help me understand...

[Big Brother Val]

hope....mental reassurance....that he might intervene or make things go your way. thats for people praying for a certain thing, and IMHO its good.

but those that pray yet act badly in life (i.e. the guy that impregnates girls then does a runner or the asshole who prays every week) by my reasoning wont be able to wash off those sins by praying, praying wont help his kharma at all IMHO. thats why things such as confessions have always intrigued me

I understand people pray to basically make themselves feel better... I'm just wondering about the people who say God DOES answer prayers... he does grant MIRACLES... and he does save his children when it is "not their time"....

So basically, if you pray and you get what you pray for (like your kid getting better after being VERY sick), then it's just a matter of convenience? Because even if you didn't pray, he'd still pull the kid out because it was his plan for the child, right?

 

[Big Brother Val]

BigBrotherVal, that is a hard question to answer. The first reason being is that you are generalizing the matter. You have to take a lot of things into consideration. Do these people really live by God, and know God's ways. It is difficult to interpret where God comes into play and we can't positively be sure about HIs actions. I guess when we die we may be able to ask Him. I know this is kind of unclear but let me use 9/11 as an example. Many people say that God allowed it to happen to cause a revival and awaken us to depend on him. You could take that as our whole nation is moving further and further away from God, so He had to do something to get us back in a relationship with Him. On the other hand, some may say that God did not let this happen and that the devil was at work with these terrorists. It is really difficult to tell which view we should believe and that is why some may say the Lord works in mysterious ways. I do believe that the more you spend time in His word and learn His ways it becomes a little easier to possibly interpret was is His will. I have been around Christians who like to selectively say that God did this for them but when something bad happened it was not God's fault. I think this is wrong and you just need to understand that God has His plan and we don't necessarily know what it is but we must have faith in it and know that He is much greater than us. He is beyond our finite minds and we will never fully understand everything about Him. I hope some of this blabbering has helped.

I guess I just can't grasp the concept about him having a plan and what not for all of us. Is a plan like a blueprint? Like he already has our lives mapped out, and we just follow that? Or is it more like what he wants us to do, and we decide if we follow it or not?

I have a hard time with the whole bit that if a child is abused or killed, that it was that child's plan in life, or that they had more important work to do in heaven, or whatever it is that people say.

I'm not trying to generalize anything... I know I don't know a lot about it... but what I do know is that I love my children so much, it's beyond my own comprehension... and it breaks my heart for children who suffer ANYWHERE... yet God comes out and lets these children suffer, because he can't intervene... well WHY THE HELL PUT A KID DOWN HERE WHO IS BEATEN FOR 2 MONTHS, AND THEN DIES ANYWAY!?!?!

I'm not lashing at you... I hope you understand this. I appreciate you taking the time... but what kind of a "father" would do this to his children, just to test them?

 

[Big Brother Val]

you guys are alljust waiting for him to return and raise all hell. Typical calming before the storm. We will all get caught at an unexpected moment. Are you prepared?? Will you go to heaven when this time comes? You all shall see.

God has a lot of explaining to do before I know if I want to get into heaven with him or not.

Sounds like a "members only" club to me. Follow the rules of the club, you're in... if not... you gotta go elsewhere.

 

[Big Brother Val]

god is a concept man invented to help answer unanswerable questions. everyone believes god is on their side; god loves them; they are made in gods image.

i believe their is a power or "god" beyond our world that we cannot even attempt to fathom.

how can we use the ideas, languages, and books of our limited world to understand something far beyond us?

the more we contemplate, study, and practice the different religions, which are all bound by the restraints of our world, the further away from the fact, that nobody knows what happens after you die, we get.

all that our deluded, elaborate, belief systems accomplish is the brutal, deadly conflict going on today....

...at least thats what i think.

You're right... I can't comprehend it... I can't fathom it... I can't understand it... hell... I can't really even believe it.

Is there some invisible guy that lives in the clouds that calls us all children, yet wouldn't piss on us if we were on fire? I don't really know.

Is there a power out there... there has to be, in my opinion. I can't imagine there isn't... but to call whatever it is "father", is like when you see on a cartoon the baby turtle come out of it's egg, and call the first thing it sees "mommy".

 

[Big Brother Val]

Val

Dude's post is the same view I have on God and his plan for everybody. Generalizing God's actions is the #1 fault alot of people fall into. God's grace and actions cannot be blanketed on everybody's problems. When we are born we are considered sinners. Although it is virtually impossible to imagine an infant as being a sinner, I believe this to be true. Infants and children are innocent to say the least but they cannot comprehend God's love and grace. IMO, until a person is exposed to the Word of God, that person will not experience what it is like to be loved by God. We live in a very violent society and bad things happen every hour of each day. These bad things will happen regardless of your religious views. Good things do come from bad events. I have experienced this so many times in my life. Even though these bad things have happened, it still hasn't swayed my belief in God. In fact, it has made me stronger. I've also seen something bad will happen to a particular family and that family uses that event to witness to others about their belief in God and how it got them through a terrible ordeal. Too many people blame God for their own misfortunes therefore banning God from their lives and eternal damnation. I feel strongly about my belief in God and it has helped me cope when things don't go my way. Terrible events in people's lives will do one of two things. They will either turn to God for understanding and perserverance or they will reject Him and try and cope the best way they can. We make a conscious choice whether to believe in God or not. Doing good things all of your life while not believing in God will not get you saved and a place in heaven. So many people believe in so many different things that I will probably get flamed for that statement but it's what I believe in. I cannot make people believe in God but I can tell them about God and they can make their own choices. Will believing in God stop the violent acts and hardships for you and other people? No, it will not. We cannot control what other people do to us or others. As I rear my two daughters, it is my responsiblity as a Christian father to expose them to the love and grace of God. I hope they will accept Him and follow His word and become loving parents as pass it down to their kids. If they do not accept Him and follow His word then that is a conscious choice they will make. Will it bother me? Yes it will until the day I die but hopefully as they get older they will see a need to have God in their lives and revert to what they were taught earlier by me and my wife.
Here is another thought.....Let's say you believe in God and live your life accordingly and then you die. What if when you die...you go nowhere and God was a myth as well as heaven? What have you truly lost in the long run?

I understand we all have the power to choose what we do. That's just what life is.

But what is the point of praying, and believing, and following his word, if it doesn't do a damn bit of good.

So here's a test: My kid is taken from me, stabbed to death, and thrown on the side of the road. I end up hating everyone, I stop believing in God essentially, and stay bitter until I die. Then I get to go to hell, because I didn't pass his test... where other people are born into wealthy families, never struggle, have nothing better to do, so they believe in God, and go to church... they go to Heaven, because they passed THEIR test?

What the hell is that?

Why would God put a child down here who is beaten to death his first year of life?

Why would a "father" let a man put a spaceheater down on his childs head, until the kid was dead?

Is that a "father"?

Hell no.

God is like a king, right? That's a better description. He's a king who sends his troops off to die. That's what God has done to us.

So why would I pray to a guy who doesn't give a rats ass about his own children?
Why test them in such a way?

He will explain this to me... or lose me as his "child", as I will disassociate myself from him.

 

[dude]

I guess I just can't grasp the concept about him having a plan and what not for all of us. Is a plan like a blueprint? Like he already has our lives mapped out, and we just follow that? Or is it more like what he wants us to do, and we decide if we follow it or not?

I have a hard time with the whole bit that if a child is abused or killed, that it was that child's plan in life, or that they had more important work to do in heaven, or whatever it is that people say.

I'm not trying to generalize anything... I know I don't know a lot about it... but what I do know is that I love my children so much, it's beyond my own comprehension... and it breaks my heart for children who suffer ANYWHERE... yet God comes out and lets these children suffer, because he can't intervene... well WHY THE HELL PUT A KID DOWN HERE WHO IS BEATEN FOR 2 MONTHS, AND THEN DIES ANYWAY!?!?!

I'm not lashing at you... I hope you understand this. I appreciate you taking the time... but what kind of a "father" would do this to his children, just to test them?

The plan that I am talking about is not like a preset plan. He directs us to certain things and places at certain times in our life. This is one reason that you see some missionaries going over to Afghanistan right now. They feel that God wants them to go over there and share their faith. Could they be wrong? Sure, but they are going by what they think His will is. As far as a child being abused or killed. I think that is a deeper question. I believe that sometimes if the parents sin then the child will suffer from it. For instance, if two people decide to have a child out of wedlock then I think it is possible for the child to be punished in some way for their actions. Like if the parents split up and then the child is stuck with only one parent or maybe it gets abandoned. Also, from what I understand, if you want God to work in your life then you have to accept Him as your Lord and Savior and take Him into your life. I don't believe He can work in people's lives if they do not allow Him to. God may let people suffer for certain reasons but I don't think that he will let them suffer throughout their whole life. It may be a time when they disobeyed God or when He is trying to make a point. All in all, He is just and will do what is right. I totally understand that you are not trying to lash out. You have questions as does everyone. I believe in God but I have many questions about Him that may never get answered in my lifetime, but how would I be human if I didn't ask them. I don't claim to know all these answers, rather these are my interpretations on the matter at hand.

 

[buddy28]

I see the points you are making... I guess I just don't understand why he will "sometimes" intervene, or what not. I know he has a plan or whatever... but come on... what the hell kind of plan is it for an infant to be born, and thrown into a dumpster?

Or a 1 year old boy to have his ribs smashed in by his father?

Where was the plan here?

Where does that fit in?

I know it's impossible to fathom his greatness, and all of that. Hell... he's GOD.

But I sure can't say he's a father, because I am... and I would NEVER put my children through that.

I completley understand and I agree. Those are all good points where God *choose* to entrust 2 individuals with an infants life, knowing beforehand, those two people would hurt or kill the baby. Of course those parents had a choice to abuse the child, but so did God in allowing a child to be born to abusive parents.

I dont really have any answers for you man. I dont understand why God does what he does, and I understand your anger at HIm for allowing these terrible things to happpen. Im glad your looking at it from a rational perspective though. Some people never question Gods goodness, because they dont beleive that God is responsible "evil". These people dont know what their talking about, and are more concerned about maintaining their own comfortable conception of God, then discovering the truth - however difficult that may be.

 

[casavant]

Why did God create beings who's main purpose in life is supposed to be to worship and "serve" him? Does he need our validation that badly?

Even though God is supposedly beyond our full comprehension, we still have to try to grasp him and his ways in some way that is slightly human, since that's the only existence we know. If he truly wanted us to worship and love him, why didn't he give us more capacity to understand him? Oh, wait, I'm trying to understand God based on human logic- what a fruitless endeavor (sarcasm intended).

You know, most of us can't truly understand the motive behind Jeffrey Dahmer's heinous acts of rape, torture, murder, and cannibalism, yet we don't excuse his actions based on this. Why act differently towards God? He isn't truly a God unless you make him that, anymore than some freak with a gun to your head in complete control of your future is a god. If "might doesn't make right", than why is God always right? It seems completely arbitrary to me.

 

[buddy28]

You know, most of us can't truly understand the motive behind Jeffrey Dahmer's heinous acts of rape, torture, murder, and cannibalism, yet we don't excuse his actions based on this. Why act differently towards God? He isn't truly a God unless you make him that, anymore than some freak with a gun to your head in complete control of your future is a god. If "might doesn't make right", than why is God always right? It seems completely arbitrary to me.

Its true. God Himself outlines moral laws for humans to prescribe to. However, sometimes he doesnt follow those laws. He tells us to be kind and loving and good to others, and lets some individuals, like Val has pointed out, be born to parents who beat and abuse them, or gives them debilihiting psychatric disorders that ostrasize them from society and undermines their emotional wellbeing.

Its difficult. But God seems to work in the longterm. We can be pissed at God for 20 years, and later in our lives, we can find him. It is a journey.

 

[dude]

Why did God create beings who's main purpose in life is supposed to be to worship and "serve" him? Does he need our validation that badly?

Even though God is supposedly beyond our full comprehension, we still have to try to grasp him and his ways in some way that is slightly human, since that's the only existence we know. If he truly wanted us to worship and love him, why didn't he give us more capacity to understand him? Oh, wait, I'm trying to understand God based on human logic- what a fruitless endeavor (sarcasm intended).

You know, most of us can't truly understand the motive behind Jeffrey Dahmer's heinous acts of rape, torture, murder, and cannibalism, yet we don't excuse his actions based on this. Why act differently towards God? He isn't truly a God unless you make him that, anymore than some freak with a gun to your head in complete control of your future is a god. If "might doesn't make right", than why is God always right? It seems completely arbitrary to me.

God first created man as a companion. I serve Him because I am thankful for the many talents He has given me, lessons He has taught me, my life, and for the blessings He has given to me. Just because you don't understand Him does not mean that you should not believe in Him. If someone told me what a gun was and described it to me yet I had never seen one before, I would not automatically just say that there is no such thing as a gun. That is why believing in God is based on faith. You have to put some sort of trust in Him.