Why I don't believe in God. Those who believe, please help me understand...

[buddy28]

Val -

Good questions.

Here are 5 undeniable truths that Christians can never refute:

1) Good things happen as a result of human free agency
2) Bad things happen as a result of human free agency
3) God does not intefre, *most of the time*, with humans right to choose, thus God allows both great acts, and terriable acts to occur
4) God allows some people to be born with parents, biological disorders, or incrediable social stigmas which cause undue suffering in an individuals life. This is in contrast with #3, where the causal agent of suffering is human. In this instance, God does cause suffering, either directly or indirectly. Technically, being born into dysfunctional families is the result of both #3 & #4.
5) God sometimes intervenes in the physical world. Its impossible to know how much and what frequency he does, but by the current state of the world, personally, I dont think its alot.

The Christians God "challenge" to us, if you could say that, is to understand the 5 points mentioned above, not just theoritically, but experientially (the hard part), and come to an understanding and acceptance or our place in relation to God.

 

[Big Brother Val]

God is mysterious. The fact that you question Him reveals your arrogance. The ways in which he works are so far superior to anything we can comprehend that you just must trust in him, and that everything happens for a reason.

Just kidding. Your post reflects my own thoughts to a tee. Let me know when you figure out why so many people concur with the Christian belief system, because I haven't yet.

That first paragraph had me thinking "What the fuck?"... but at the same time, I thought someone by now would have that sort of attitude towards my post.

I'm just trying to sort things out.

We say fathers who neglect their children are "deadbeats" Or "sperm donors"... yet we praise God for neglecting his children, and go to buildings to sing to him....

I just don't get it.

 

[Milhouse]

Well if there is a god and he is suposedly the father of the children(us) well he is one hell of a deadbeat parent. Quick to take credit for the good shit and quick to blame others for the bad shit.

Do I think there is some kind of higher being/ force/power ?
Yep and whether that is a god or Marvin the Martian well I try not to undertstand.

 

[danielson]

I agree... that's my point. Some say that God does answer prayers at times... and pulling people through seemingly impossible situations are "acts of God"... and so on... yet when people suffer we just have to swallow shit, because he doesn't interfere.

If he doesn't interfere, why do people pray? Why ask for help that he will NEVER give?

hope....mental reassurance....that he might intervene or make things go your way. thats for people praying for a certain thing, and IMHO its good.

but those that pray yet act badly in life (i.e. the guy that impregnates girls then does a runner or the asshole who prays every week) by my reasoning wont be able to wash off those sins by praying, praying wont help his kharma at all IMHO. thats why things such as confessions have always intrigued me

 

[dude]

BigBrotherVal, that is a hard question to answer. The first reason being is that you are generalizing the matter. You have to take a lot of things into consideration. Do these people really live by God, and know God's ways. It is difficult to interpret where God comes into play and we can't positively be sure about HIs actions. I guess when we die we may be able to ask Him. I know this is kind of unclear but let me use 9/11 as an example. Many people say that God allowed it to happen to cause a revival and awaken us to depend on him. You could take that as our whole nation is moving further and further away from God, so He had to do something to get us back in a relationship with Him. On the other hand, some may say that God did not let this happen and that the devil was at work with these terrorists. It is really difficult to tell which view we should believe and that is why some may say the Lord works in mysterious ways. I do believe that the more you spend time in His word and learn His ways it becomes a little easier to possibly interpret was is His will. I have been around Christians who like to selectively say that God did this for them but when something bad happened it was not God's fault. I think this is wrong and you just need to understand that God has His plan and we don't necessarily know what it is but we must have faith in it and know that He is much greater than us. He is beyond our finite minds and we will never fully understand everything about Him. I hope some of this blabbering has helped.

 

[BuggyWhips]

you guys are alljust waiting for him to return and raise all hell. Typical calming before the storm. We will all get caught at an unexpected moment. Are you prepared?? Will you go to heaven when this time comes? You all shall see.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

god is a concept man invented to help answer unanswerable questions. everyone believes god is on their side; god loves them; they are made in gods image.

i believe their is a power or "god" beyond our world that we cannot even attempt to fathom.

how can we use the ideas, languages, and books of our limited world to understand something far beyond us?

the more we contemplate, study, and practice the different religions, which are all bound by the restraints of our world, the further away from the fact, that nobody knows what happens after you die, we get.

all that our deluded, elaborate, belief systems accomplish is the brutal, deadly conflict going on today....

...at least thats what i think.

 

[HumorMe]

Val

Dude's post is the same view I have on God and his plan for everybody. Generalizing God's actions is the #1 fault alot of people fall into. God's grace and actions cannot be blanketed on everybody's problems. When we are born we are considered sinners. Although it is virtually impossible to imagine an infant as being a sinner, I believe this to be true. Infants and children are innocent to say the least but they cannot comprehend God's love and grace. IMO, until a person is exposed to the Word of God, that person will not experience what it is like to be loved by God. We live in a very violent society and bad things happen every hour of each day. These bad things will happen regardless of your religious views. Good things do come from bad events. I have experienced this so many times in my life. Even though these bad things have happened, it still hasn't swayed my belief in God. In fact, it has made me stronger. I've also seen something bad will happen to a particular family and that family uses that event to witness to others about their belief in God and how it got them through a terrible ordeal. Too many people blame God for their own misfortunes therefore banning God from their lives and eternal damnation. I feel strongly about my belief in God and it has helped me cope when things don't go my way. Terrible events in people's lives will do one of two things. They will either turn to God for understanding and perserverance or they will reject Him and try and cope the best way they can. We make a conscious choice whether to believe in God or not. Doing good things all of your life while not believing in God will not get you saved and a place in heaven. So many people believe in so many different things that I will probably get flamed for that statement but it's what I believe in. I cannot make people believe in God but I can tell them about God and they can make their own choices. Will believing in God stop the violent acts and hardships for you and other people? No, it will not. We cannot control what other people do to us or others. As I rear my two daughters, it is my responsiblity as a Christian father to expose them to the love and grace of God. I hope they will accept Him and follow His word and become loving parents as pass it down to their kids. If they do not accept Him and follow His word then that is a conscious choice they will make. Will it bother me? Yes it will until the day I die but hopefully as they get older they will see a need to have God in their lives and revert to what they were taught earlier by me and my wife.
Here is another thought.....Let's say you believe in God and live your life accordingly and then you die. What if when you die...you go nowhere and God was a myth as well as heaven? What have you truly lost in the long run?

 

[Big Brother Val]

Val -

Good questions.

Here are 5 undeniable truths that Christians can never refute:

1) Good things happen as a result of human free agency
2) Bad things happen as a result of human free agency
3) God does not intefre, *most of the time*, with humans right to choose, thus God allows both great acts, and terriable acts to occur
4) God allows some people to be born with parents, biological disorders, or incrediable social stigmas which cause undue suffering in an individuals life. This is in contrast with #3, where the causal agent of suffering is human. In this instance, God does cause suffering, either directly or indirectly. Technically, being born into dysfunctional families is the result of both #3 & #4.
5) God sometimes intervenes in the physical world. Its impossible to know how much and what frequency he does, but by the current state of the world, personally, I dont think its alot.

The Christians God "challenge" to us, if you could say that, is to understand the 5 points mentioned above, not just theoritically, but experientially (the hard part), and come to an understanding and acceptance or our place in relation to God.

I see the points you are making... I guess I just don't understand why he will "sometimes" intervene, or what not. I know he has a plan or whatever... but come on... what the hell kind of plan is it for an infant to be born, and thrown into a dumpster?

Or a 1 year old boy to have his ribs smashed in by his father?

Where was the plan here?

Where does that fit in?

I know it's impossible to fathom his greatness, and all of that. Hell... he's GOD.

But I sure can't say he's a father, because I am... and I would NEVER put my children through that.

 

[Big Brother Val]

Well if there is a god and he is suposedly the father of the children(us) well he is one hell of a deadbeat parent. Quick to take credit for the good shit and quick to blame others for the bad shit.

Do I think there is some kind of higher being/ force/power ?
Yep and whether that is a god or Marvin the Martian well I try not to undertstand.

That's how I am. I do believe there is SOMETHING out there.... I just can't view whatever the hell it is as a FATHER. As I said above... I am a father... and I sure as shit wouldn't make my kids suffer, just to see if they'd sing songs to me, in spite of the fact that they're freezing to death, or can't eat.