Who's going to buy the new R+ALA caps from Anabolic Fitness?

[SOLID]

excellent posts TM1. So do you feel that more company's will start to produce pure (R+) ALA soon? I'm still a little confused on what your advice is on purchasing...the racemix or the pure form. From my reading I got that the (S-) does effect the (R+) to a great exstent...so do you still recommend purchasing the racemix over the pure form since it's cheaper and your actually getting more (R+) form?

 

[cockdezl]

I saw alot of statements in this thread, but no research to support a supposed deleterious effect of S-ALA.

"R(+)-lipoic acid has emerged as the active ingredient in the racemate. R(+)-lipoic acid fights all of the major effects of insulin resistance. The S(-)-form either does not help in these areas, or even makes things worse"

"Many studies have found that R(+)-lipoic acid provides much more effective protection than S(-)-lipoic acid or the racemate. In some cases, the S(-)-lipoic acid actually counteracts the effects of R(+)-lipoic acid"

Until I can see some harder evidence than this, I will continue to save money and purchase the 50/50 racemate.

 

[SOLID]

bump

There is a product on the market called Control...it has 800mg of ALA, 50mg of Vanadyl Sulfate, 9mg of Biotin, and 1000mcg of Chromium Picolinate. What do you think this company added these extra ingredients, what benefits do you think they may have?

 

[superchicken]

when they sep the r from the s, i doubt they throw the s in the trashcan. im sure they sell it to someone...

im sure theres gotta be a brand or 2 out there where your buying all s type. that sux.

 

[Mr H]

If you get ALA tested does it show how much R and how much S you're getting or can it not be tested for that?

 

[BackDoc]

Yes, but that might require expensive testing. Unfortunately, many companies only submit to the consumer a non-specific C of A (certificate of analysis) that yields only the product is, in fact, lipoic acid. However, it is seldom that they report specifics as to stereochemistry, in this case, the ratio of isomers included. Purity means pretty much jack if the enantiomer is not what you wanted.

Not all companies are 1:1 equimolar racemic mixes, of that I am convinced. However, you can be hard pressed at times to get a company to respond to your inquiry as to the ratio. I have used products that were far inferior to others who could produce a decent C of A. Maybe it's which isomer. Maybe not.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

excellent posts TM1. So do you feel that more company's will start to produce pure (R+) ALA soon? I'm still a little confused on what your advice is on purchasing...the racemix or the pure form. From my reading I got that the (S-) does effect the (R+) to a great exstent...so do you still recommend purchasing the racemix over the pure form since it's cheaper and your actually getting more (R+) form?

Please don't confuse me with TM1... lol... I know for a fact that Jarrow is coming out with an R product; I talked to the folks over there about a week ago. I've got a line into a couple suppliers, so I suppose if I can do it that it would not be a problem for manufacturers to do it...

From a purely economic standpoint, I stick with my original assertation that racemic is fine -- you do have to ingest more, (and proportionally, you probably have to ingest more of the R type in a racemic dose to offset the effects of S) but you get a lot more so it's not a huge problem.

If money was not an object though, I would definitely buy pure R for convienience and efficiency. However, money is an object for me, so I'll stick with racemic.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I saw alot of statements in this thread, but no research to support a supposed deleterious effect of S-ALA.

Until I can see some harder evidence than this, I will continue to save money and purchase the 50/50 racemate.

At the same time, insulin levels in animals that were supplemented with R(+)-Lipoic Acid were pushed down by 17%, proving that the vicious circle of insulin resistance was being put into reverse. By contrast, S(-) lipoic acid actually caused insulin levels to soar 15% higher.

...Looking down at these animals' cells, scientists could see what had happened. The amount of GLUT-4, the muscles' main glucose transporter, was actually reduced by 19% by S(-) lipoic acid supplementation!

Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.

S(-)-lipoic acid actually interferes with the cell's ability to mobilize GLUTs.

Estrada DE, Ewart HS, Tsakiridis T, Volchuk A, Ramlal T, Tritschler H, Klip A. Stimulation of glucose uptake by the natural coenzyme alpha-lipoic acid/thioctic acid: participation of elements of the insulin signaling pathway. Diabetes. 1996 Dec;45(12):1798-804.


“The S(-)-enantiomer … part of the racemate, which is present as about a 50% impurity [our emphasis], needs to be eliminated."
 
Zimmer G, Mainka L, Ulrich H. ATP synthesis and ATPase activities in heart mitoplasts under influence of R(+)- and S(-)-enantiomers of lipoic acid. Methods Enzymol. 1995;251:332-40.

“We’re finding – and others are, too – that the R(+)-form – the natural form – is much more powerful than the racemic mixture ... Hopefully ... companies are going to be producing on more of a clinical scale the R(+)-form of lipoic acid, because we’re finding very significant effects using this, as opposed to the racemic mixture.”

Hagen TM. Mitochondrial decay in aging: reversal with dietary supplementation. Presentation to the 29th Annual ISOM Conference. April 6-9, 2000;Vancouver, BC.

“Lipoic acid sold in a health food store is a synthetic mixture, a racemic mixture. And R[+]- is the natural form and S[-]- is an unnatural one ... And in our hands R[+]-works and S[-]- doesn’t.”

Haramaki N, Stewart DB, Aggarwal S, Ikeda H, Reznick AZ, Packer L. Networking antioxidants in the isolated rat heart are selectively depleted by ischemia-reperfusion. Free Radic Biol Med. 1998 Aug;25(3):329-39.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

when they sep the r from the s, i doubt they throw the s in the trashcan. im sure they sell it to someone...

im sure theres gotta be a brand or 2 out there where your buying all s type. that sux.

It is my understanding that when they make R, they don't have to separate it. They use a more expensive process that doen't synthesize the S-type at all.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

If you get ALA tested does it show how much R and how much S you're getting or can it not be tested for that?

Ulter said he had some NOW (I think) ALA tested and it tested to have more S than R. But really, it's just like drugs -- post a scan to prove it...

Meanwhile, I researched a bunch of different sources, some of which market R-type ALA, and they all said ALA supplements, unless otherwise specified, are 50/50 mixtures. I posted and cited several of those statements of above... If somebody finds something different and can prove it, I'd genuinely like to know...

Its because of the process that most supplemental ALA is manufactured with. S is a racemate to R and is present in equal amounts...

Anbody can find out the same info. Pop onto Yahoo and do a search under racemic ALA, or +50/50 +ALA, etc...