Who's going to buy the new R+ALA caps from Anabolic Fitness?

[THeMaCHinE]

Not all companies are 1:1 equimolar racemic mixes, of that I am convinced. However, you can be hard pressed at times to get a company to respond to your inquiry as to the ratio. I have used products that were far inferior to others who could produce a decent C of A. Maybe it's which isomer. Maybe not.

I betcha most start out with a 1:1 ratio, then they either underfill caps, cut the raw product with fillers, manufacture in such a way that the product degrades, etc... Typical supplement company shenannigans... seems more likely to me...

(and that's why the products differ greatly in quality)

 

[BackDoc]

Could be, and a very interesting point.

 

[SOLID]

Please don't confuse me with TM1... lol... I know for a fact that Jarrow is coming out with an R product; I talked to the folks over there about a week ago. I've got a line into a couple suppliers, so I suppose if I can do it that it would not be a problem for manufacturers to do it...

Damn, why isn't my email notification working?!!!
My bad, sorry. TM- will you keep me posted on that Jarrow brand and when it may come out...thanks bro.

SOLID

 

[Iceburg]

Unfortunately, many companies only submit to the consumer a non-specific C of A (certificate of analysis) that yields only the product is, in fact, lipoic acid. However, it is seldom that they report specifics as to stereochemistry, in this case, the ratio of isomers included. Purity means pretty much jack if the enantiomer is not what you wanted.

Not all companies are 1:1 equimolar racemic mixes, of that I am convinced. However, you can be hard pressed at times to get a company to respond to your inquiry as to the ratio. I have used products that were far inferior to others who could produce a decent C of A. Maybe it's which isomer. Maybe not.

Due to all this speculation of mixtures being truly 50/50, I have undergone the task of confirming that the ALA that is sold by Anabolical Nutrition ( www.anabolical.com ) is indeed 50/50.

I would have to agree that when the mixture is seperated- they prob. don't just throw the s type away. I have seen posts for sites that sell ALA by the kilo and those prices were below our per kilo price- and we buy in quantity much larger that single kilos.

Why is it cheaper? Why don't we use the cheaper ALA?
These sources are mostly exporters-importers and although they do have a cerfificate of purity,you will feel like your beating your head against a wall trying find out if it's truly a 50/50 mixture. And none will put in writing and guarantee the mixture is 50/50

For these reasons we don't use these types of bulk ALA resalers.
Anabolical Nutrition uses an American pharmaceutical manufacturer that creates their own ALA. Because we have stressed the importance of this matter they do include, with the certificate of analysis, a guarantee of composition as well. To be absolutely specific..the mixture is guaranteed within + or - 2 % of 50/50. And we have this in writing.

 

[BackDoc]

Good post. I like to see where companies post product purity and lab analyses in print. That tells me a company has integrity.

I think TheMachine was onto something with the binders and fillers issue. Equimolar ratios would not necessarily be affected in that case. Consider the following scenario.


You have a pound of apples and a pound of pound of pears. Mix them together and you have a 1:1 ratio apples to pears. Mix in a pound of mayo, 2 cups of raisins, 1 half cup of lemon juice and 2 cups of chopped pecans and you still have a 1:1 ratio of apples to pears.

Such a practice with ALA would boost profit margins although perhaps reducing product quality, all the while maintaining equimolar concentrations of the racemate. I don't think it's a large number of these companies doing that, but like you mentioned the first clue might be a cost to consumer lower than wholesale bulk from a higher quality reputable seller.

Good food for thought!

 

[Ulter]

Ulter said he had some NOW (I think) ALA tested and it tested to have more S than R. But really, it's just like drugs -- post a scan to prove it...

No, what I said was I saw a scan of the Nature's Purest and the 300mg had 50mg of R in it. It's not my scan but you can bet your sweet ass AF will be testing every ALA on the market and posting the scans of those who are cheating. When I called the owner at Nature's Purest in Calif and told him of the results of the scan he said, "so what do you want me to do about it?" I told him I would post it on the internet and wanted to know what his response to the scan was and he said "If you want to slander us on the internet go ahead" and hung up. So I called the people selling it in Utah and they said they had no comment. The sad thing is that I still see people posting their web address at Nutriteam.
Our r-ALA is too damned expensive for these guys to not be competing on a level field. We could have joined the masses trying to sell the mix but we decided to take the high road and let the marketplace decide which ALA they want to use.

BTW- Bro can you PM me when you guys are having these great discussions over here. I don't get over here much.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

BTW- Bro can you PM me when you guys are having these great discussions over here. I don't get over here much.

Yeah, I'm kinda sporadic over here too; no problem PMing you...

I'd LOVE to see the scans on your site -- that would be great!

Thanks for clarifying the NOW/NATURE'S PUREST (like I said in parens, I couldn't quite remember which one it was...) They probably underfill their product to begin with...

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I would have to agree that when the mixture is seperated- they prob. don't just throw the s type away. I have seen posts for sites that sell ALA by the kilo and those prices were below our per kilo price- and we buy in quantity much larger that single kilos.

It is my understanding that r formulations don't have to be separated -- pure, r-type is developed through a different (more expensive) manufacturing process that doesn't create the S racemate.

Differences in efficacy are more likely due to the reasons I outlined above.

 

[fhg43]

For what it's worth-
I haven't done any specific investigation into the ingredients of Jarrows various ALA products. However I have used them and noticed a significant hypoglycemic effect (in doses of 200mg or more). I'll speculate that Jarrows probably uses a high R to S ratio. I ordered some 300mg Jarrows ALA from herbaladvisor.com. We'll see how it works. Currently I am using some generic Trader Joe's ALA and it sucks. It was real cheap (90x100mg for $9). It must be all S-type!!!

www.herbaladvisor.com has awesome prices on Jarrows products. IMO Jarrows stuff is very high (even pharm) quality-and retail prices definitely reflect this! However the above site has most of their products and at great prices too! I have used this Jarrows ALA in the past with great success.

FHG

 

[THeMaCHinE]

For what it's worth-
I haven't done any specific investigation into the ingredients of Jarrows various ALA products. However I have used them and noticed a significant hypoglycemic effect (in doses of 200mg or more). I'll speculate that Jarrows probably uses a high R to S ratio. I ordered some 300mg Jarrows ALA from herbaladvisor.com. We'll see how it works. Currently I am using some generic Trader Joe's ALA and it sucks. It was real cheap (90x100mg for $9). It must be all S-type!!!

www.herbaladvisor.com has awesome prices on Jarrows products. IMO Jarrows stuff is very high (even pharm) quality-and retail prices definitely reflect this! However the above site has most of their products and at great prices too! I have used this Jarrows ALA in the past with great success.

FHG

I have talked to the guys at Jarrow over the phone (trying to find out when their pure R product is coming out); all of their current products are racemic (50/50 mixtures).

It's probably more effective because it is what it says it is (or is overdosed) and is a quality, undamaged product.