who's a fan of SHORT TEST CYCLES? lets build one.....

[Nelson Montana]

Thanks Nelson. Glad you came in here.

I have a feeling I wont be running a long cycle for a very long time after this one. Recovery should be smoother, gains should be easier to keep. Whats not to love. Will log it in a few weeks....

Nelson, while your in here.....whats your take on my kickstart idea? D-bol or Madol(DMT)? Im just looking for pure muscle gain here and I think I've read a comment from you before saying that on pure muscle gain, not much beats d-bol? Am i correct with that statement? What about blood pressure? which one of these usually have the least sides?

I would probably run the dmt at 45mg/day and the d-bol at 30mg/day. Never ran d-bol before so just not sure what to expect.

A kickstart isn;t a bad idea. It also gets you training hard right out of the gate.

Shorter cycles don;t produce huge gains but that's what makes the gains more "keepable."

I like dbol. I think T-bol is the perfect oral, but it wasn't available back in my day! : )

 

[Nelson Montana]

This is strawman rhetoric - over simplifying an argument and then beating it down and claiming victory.

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Sounds to me, with that statement, that's exactly what you're trying to do.



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Esters do have an effect on the base molecule to the point where it does affect the timeline of effectiveness of the hormone.

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I never said otherwise.


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In 1954, a researcher named Reifstein and his colleagues compared an injection of Testosterone Propionate with Testosterone Enanthate, and they found that the injection of testosterone propionate resulted in nitrogen retention of 1.02g/day with a total measurable anabolic activity of 12 days, while the Enanthate version resulted in nitrogen retention of 1.76g/day and had a total measurable anabolic activity of 33 days.


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Very simple explanation for that. Faster acting compounds are "purer" than long acting esters. The ester essentially takes up more "room" so in a sense, there's actually more testosterone in a 100mg shot of prop than in enth. But the difference is nominal over the long run. I might question the nitrogen retention difference stated in that study, but even so, it'd be the difference between and extra 50 grams of protein or so. These days with products like GEAR, that difference can be made up very easily.



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1. If "testosterone is testosterone" then there would be no effort to make different esters of the hormone. It wouldn't matter, affects would all be the same. This is simply not the case though.


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[COLOR="purple[B]"]You simply are wrong. These drugs weren't designed for bodybuilding purposes.
[/COLOR][/B]


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2. Accumulation of the hormone within the body will reach a much higher peak with a long ester as opposed to a shorter ester (if the same dosages are run each week). This surely has an effect on anabolism.

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[COLOR="purple"]It's still finite. If esters built up over the course of weeks and months then people on HRT would show higher and higher levels of T in their system and that just isn't the case.
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3. Test prop and enanthate are not the exact same thing without the intervention of your body breaking down the ester into the usable hormones; which happens at different rates. 400grams of protein in one meal is the same as 400mg protein split equally between 4 meals but the implications of each meal are quite a bit different.
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[B]
But what if ALL your 400 grams of protein were in one sitting? It would actually be LESS effective, So again, it's splitting hairs and has absolutely NOTHING to do with a longer ester taking longer to "kick in."
[/B]
Hope that clears up the confusion on your part.



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[burningman]

I've said this many times before but it bears repeating..., the length of the ester has nothing to do with how long it takes for the cycle to be effective. It's simply the time that it is active. A short ester is 2 days and a long ester is 10 days. That's the only difference. As long as you have something in your system it's THE SAME EXACT THING.

So if i Shoot 100mg of test prop it will last 2 days but if i shoot 100mg of test e it last 10 days? Doesnt make sense unless the 100mg is spread out evenly over the 2 or 10 days?
Im doing your recommended 3 week cycle of sus 250 day 1 and test e day 8 with primo eod and daily oral. Do you still recommend this cycle? Im using it for a month long mma camp. Thanks nelson.

 

[johnnyboy3689282]

i love short cycles... 6-8 weeks on and 6-8 weeks off then back on in 6-8... you will retain more of your mass and give the receptors plenty of time to clear. most of the time you shouldnt run your 19 nors for more than 8 weeks, and with deca, i would cut it at 8, and give yourself the 12 weeks, then do 2-3 off.... These has proven to be a quiality method to retaining.... Im going to Log this for the site as soon as i can get back on... Im off for atleast 4 months more....

 

[brandonp005]

I've said this many times before but it bears repeating..., the length of the ester has nothing to do with how long it takes for the cycle to be effective. It's simply the time that it is active. A short ester is 2 days and a long ester is 10 days. That's the only difference. As long as you have something in your system it's THE SAME EXACT THING.

I agree!

 

[ceo]

enenthate is a shorter ester. You'll need to shoot it every ~4 days, vs. cyp you can shoot every ~8 days.

 

[wcjcMr.O]

enenthate is a shorter ester. You'll need to shoot it every ~4 days, vs. cyp you can shoot every ~8 days.

can you still shoot cyp on monday and thursday?

 

[ceo]

read some of ALR's work, like BTPB.

 

[joeblow12345]

enenthate is a shorter ester. You'll need to shoot it every ~4 days, vs. cyp you can shoot every ~8 days.

Test e is a long ester you dont have to shoot every 4 days. People choose to do this to keep blood levels stable. Test cypionate is the same way once a week or twice a week. I have shoot both ways and i dont notice any difference. They last the same amount of time.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[Nelson Montana]

enenthate is a shorter ester. You'll need to shoot it every ~4 days, vs. cyp you can shoot every ~8 days.

Actually enth diminishes after 10 days and cyp 14. So there's a difference, but not quite that much.