Which is a better curling excercise: incline curls vs. 90 degree seated curls?

[cwc73]

So, I'm talking about roughly 60 degree incline seated curls vs. a 90 degree (military press bench) seated curls.

I like both but with the 90 degree curls I usually hit my legs with the dumbells on the way down. I rarely do this with the inclines.
What are the pros and cons of each. K for help!
Thanks a bunch!
Chris

 

[view]

I am not sure mechanically which is better, but I would like to hear what madcow2 has to say about this.

i am not entirely sure which is better, but alternating back and forth doesn't seem like to bad of an idea.

 

[Sub-Zero]

personally for me its harder to cheat on incline curls

 

[Pains-4-Gains]

Alternating back and forth is probably be the best, but overall I'd go with incline curls because the angle at which you hit your bis on that exercise is unique. Most of the exercises for bis have your upper arm hanging straight down from an upright position so the incline are a welcome change and they also rank higher in most polls about which builds better mass. I know I've seen studies about the % of muscle fibers recruited from each exercise, but I can't remember the numbers, maybe I'll dig that up and get back to you.

 

[Madcow2]

I am not sure mechanically which is better, but I would like to hear what madcow2 has to say about this.

i am not entirely sure which is better, but alternating back and forth doesn't seem like to bad of an idea.

You are going to be disappointed to a degree. My opinion is that direct arm work isn't responsible in any way for long term gains in arm mass. They may flush out what one has and make it look a bit fuller and prettier but that's about it. As an example the same guy could ignore arms totally for 6 months and focus on the core lifts and within about 8 weeks of direct training have the same size arm as he would have if he had been training them directly the entire time.

The bulk of arm mass is added by increasing squats, pulls (deads), rows, presses, etc... So in keeping with that, the best bicept exercise is the heaviest one can do or the closest to making it a compound lift (barbell curl). Of course if you are hammering heavy rows, chins, pulls, and all the rest you are already nailing these pretty well so in some cases one might benefit from some more isolation style work just to flush the bicept out a bit.

This brings us to which is better....it probably doesn't matter. Whatever you like doing more or whatever you feel is targeting your weak points more. In the case of the original poster, one option is more awkward. I guess you could look at it from time under tension or complicate the shit out of it by examinging the leverages and the arc but for this stuff it really doesn't matter. Take Glenn Pendlay - never does any does any direct arm work, squats, rows, and pulls like a beast. At his peak I think he had something like a 22" arm, maybe it was 23". He could barbell curl 225 for reps with ease all on zero training. Could his arm have been a bit prettier or more aesthetic with some direct work? Sure, I'd guess so and assume a 6-8 weeks would be all he'd need. Do you think he suffered at all in arm mass over the long term for neglecting direct arm training? With arms that big, I simply don't see how this case could be made.

I don't know if that helps or not but my personal opinion is that it really doesn't matter one way or the other.

 

[cwc73]

Thanks! I do all of the core lifts working my lats, back, chest, and legs. My arms have gotten much bigger. I was just wondering which one makes them look bigger like you mentioned. Thanks for the help!

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I agree. As my bodyweight, overall muscle mass and strength have grown, so have my arms. I'm sure they will be 18" when I weigh 250lbs. And I'm even more sure that they will mature and grow bigger than that the longer I stay at that weight.

I haven't done any direct arm work in about 11 weeks. Although all the shoveling and jackhammering of my job serves as a sort of light weight biceps work.

A couple days ago while doing my warmup sets on JS rows I decided to curl the weight once or twice. It was my first warmup set of 110lbs. I repped it twice in strict form without even trying. My next warmup set of 130 I tried to curl it strictly and got it completely halfway and could feel the strain in the biceps trying to get past the hardest point. Within a 2 months I will strict curl 135lbs without even training for it. My arms are 16 7/8" and all usable muscle. I know guys with 17.5" arms that can't curl 135lbs because their arms are all pumped up off moderate weights and high reps, but the true strength isn't there.

I remember reading a post somewhere, but can't remember who said it, but it really made alot of sense to me. This is it, but not in the same words used.

"You see alot of average sized guys slaving away at building their arms and getting their abs to show. They wonder why their arms don't get much bigger. Well, they do too much arm work for one. They overtrain the arm muscles. Second, they don't put in the hard work on squats and deadlifts. In fact, most of them don't do them. Third, they worry about their abs too much and don't eat enough muscle building calories to build muscle mass and gain weight. Fourth, instead of wasting their time on reading the latest muscle comic, they should hit the squat rack hard. AS for supplements, they'd be better off eating more food and squatting and deadlifting more."

This definitely isn't exactly what was said, but it's close enough and get's the idea through.

I can say one thing for sure. If I worried about my body fat, weight and what I ate all the time and bombarded my arms constantly, there's no way I would be able to curl 135lbs even after a couple years of training. Next time you're in the gym check out the guy's doing lots of arm work. Notice the general lack of size and weight. The lack of powerful hips, glutes and leg muscles. They probably don't squat...and don't eat enough for real gains.

 

[blut wump]

I'll throw my vote in with everyone else on the low volume for arms. I probably work arms directly every couple of months or so for a few sets of BB curls and maybe some skullcrushers or some type of DB or BB overhead extension for a week and that feels like plenty for me.

If you're working hard in the gym then the fact that you use your arms in just about everything you do is suffiecient for them. Calves are pretty much the same too. Direct work will flush some extra blood into them and likely help with their short-term appearance and hardness.

 

[Mithrandir]

I love the pump from working arms, so I will not stop. I have slowed since I am doing 5x5. I like doing standing hammers, forces a good control and works my forearms in the process...but if you were to choose one of those two, then incline is best IMO. Someone said, it is harder to cheat, as your back is pressed against the seat, less jerking I suppose. Good luck.

 

[guldukat]

I agree. As my bodyweight, overall muscle mass and strength have grown, so have my arms. I'm sure they will be 18" when I weigh 250lbs. And I'm even more sure that they will mature and grow bigger than that the longer I stay at that weight.

Actually, at the rate you're going, I imagine they'll be a bit over 18" at 250, GSM.

A couple days ago while doing my warmup sets on JS rows I decided to curl the weight once or twice. It was my first warmup set of 110lbs. I repped it twice in strict form without even trying. My next warmup set of 130 I tried to curl it strictly and got it completely halfway and could feel the strain in the biceps trying to get past the hardest point. Within a 2 months I will strict curl 135lbs without even training for it. My arms are 16 7/8" and all usable muscle. I know guys with 17.5" arms that can't curl 135lbs because their arms are all pumped up off moderate weights and high reps, but the true strength isn't there.

Right. I see that often.

I have to parrot you and Madcow the 2nd I think if you're rowing, benching, military pressing and chinning mega-weight, your arms are going to be about as big as your genetics will permit.

Obviously, then, I agree that direct upper arm work is more of a "filler" than anything. I might go so far as to say it'd make a slightly bigger difference than that--perhaps up to a quarter-inch of extra growth over time, if all goes well and genetics allow--but that's nitpicking. As you said, most people would screw things up and probably cost themselves that extra quarter or half-inch.

I can say one thing for sure. If I worried about my body fat, weight and what I ate all the time and bombarded my arms constantly, there's no way I would be able to curl 135lbs even after a couple years of training. Next time you're in the gym check out the guy's doing lots of arm work. Notice the general lack of size and weight. The lack of powerful hips, glutes and leg muscles. They probably don't squat...and don't eat enough for real gains.

98 times out of 100, that's true, yeah--preach on, brother!

I tend to not be quite as hard on machines as some here, but I really think the proliferation of cozy little exercises where you can put your chest against a pad and curl or karate-chop away are 50% to blame for all of the lagging arms I see. The other 50% of the blame goes to the guys who use the damn things at the expense of the fundamentals.

I bet if more gyms were only equipped with power racks, BBs and DBs, we would have far fewer bodybuilders but those that stayed the course would have bigger arms. Minimal equipment all but forces someone to bust ass where it matters most.

 

[roidpuple]

i have to say i have done this.. and as my arms did grow..
what happend is my forarms muscles take over mostly..
and my bie's do not get a lot of growth.. I have always had problems here..
so i have to throw in.. some curls.. and i have to try hard to flex it.. as i can mostly feel in in my forearm a under lining muscles..
so i just do a little bit.. of betting my arms in just the right postion so i can flex it.. and not my forarm.. and i hold... I think just bad genetics.. ha ha...
I think i could pull the long and short bicepts off my arms and i would not lose any strength... ha ha....

 

[view]

madcow, you are probably going to hate me, but I just love arms so much. I do all the 5x5 on bigger body parts, so rest assured that they grow, but I do like to keep them 'maximized' year round.

now my question is what kind of form do you think is good for biceps? a bit of momentum? super strict?

 

[Madcow2]

madcow, you are probably going to hate me, but I just love arms so much. I do all the 5x5 on bigger body parts, so rest assured that they grow, but I do like to keep them 'maximized' year round.

now my question is what kind of form do you think is good for biceps? a bit of momentum? super strict?

Not at all, that's the way to do it. I had the arms discussion with a friend one time and he came up with "But the arms are the most viewed area of the body" which was pretty humorous. Most people are just obcessed with arms or thinking that there is some magical arm routine out there - and let's face it, all the noodle arms have been trying every concievable combination for years, if there was one out there that could produce big arms accross a range of trainees without heavy squatting, pulling, and pressing they most definitely would have found it. So making sure you get your arm training in is in no way harmful, will definitely make them more aesthetic and fuller even if no long term gains accrue, and sometimes it can be essential if it is impeding the progress in a core lift (i.e. tricept strength in the bench).

As far as form...like I said above, it doesn't really matter. You are kind of just pumping them up a bit. Obviously heavy barbell curls with a bit of body involvement (i.e. cheat curls) are going to be the best mass builder as far as curls are concerned but if you are rowing, pulling, squatting and all the rest I kind of question how essential it is to apply the "best" mass building curl (kind of an oxymoron). Don't ignore it completely but I really don't think there is going to be any measurable difference if you did strict hammers or preachers for a good portion of your training. This is kind of an area where you can have fun, not work ultra hard because the weight is easy, and enjoy yourself (maybe even check out the chicks).

 

[Buckeyes]

So, I'm talking about roughly 60 degree incline seated curls vs. a 90 degree (military press bench) seated curls.

I like both but with the 90 degree curls I usually hit my legs with the dumbells on the way down. I rarely do this with the inclines.
What are the pros and cons of each. K for help!
Thanks a bunch!
Chris

Dude try some standing barbell curls over at the squat rack using that 45lb barbell add some xtra weight on it if u need to. my arms loved them!

 

[cwc73]

Dude try some standing barbell curls over at the squat rack using that 45lb barbell add some xtra weight on it if u need to. my arms loved them!

hahaha. Then I become everyone on elitefitness laughs at in their threads about noobie idiots in the gym. I'm not saying you are a noobie idiot, but people do see this as stupid some times. I think it is a good choice because I have done them before (outside of the squat rack though). I liked them but they hurt my wrists in high school. I had tendonidus (sp?) back then. I'm seeing some good stuff with these incline curls. Great pumps with no supplements but protien!

 

[musketeer]

Incline curls are superior because you begin the movement from a fully stretched position. You are "inclined" to ceat less wit hany body swing, and if you move your elbows then it is also instantly more apparent. Inline curls also seem to have more of a peaking effect like when you do bent over curls.
Because you are in a mechanically stronger position when you do upright curls, most people prefer them beacuse they can use more weight. I like to to rep out with the incline curl, and then sit upright and force out more, then when I cant do any more like that I do seated hammer curls and then cheat the seated hammer curls.
I pick a weight that causes me to fail at around 5 reps with the incline, situp straight and I fail at about 2-3 reps, 2 more hammers and then about 2 more cheat hammers.
That's a twelve rep set with a weight that you can only do for 5 reps.