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What's MISSING From Most Cycles!

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
There are TWO things that so many people miss when it comes to making the most of their cycles. It's a tragedy.

The first is the fact that steroids make you stronger! That doesn't mean having an easier time of lifting the weights, it means you can train longer, harder, heavier and more often! THAT is , in part, what makes for better gains. I actually see some guys training EASIER because they think they don;t have to work as hard caues they're using the sauce.

Secondly, steroids recirculate nitrogen. That's what makes them anabolic. But without sufficient protein, there's nothing for the steroid to do! You MUST eat protein!!!

Sure, you can make gains without much regard to this stuff but it's also why so many people are dissatisfied with their results. So what do they do? What else? MORE STEROIDS!

It's also why so few people don't believe guys like Draper and Howorth and Scott look so good on 20 mgs of dianabol a day. That's because they have no idea how hard those guys worked. THEY TRAINED THIER DICKS OFF! They didn't know the meaning of overtraining. The results speak for themselves.

As for protein, it's so vital and so obvious that everyone takes it for granted. Ask 90% of the guys about Primo and they'll say ."Oh, that's a cutting drug. And it takes weeks to kick in." BULL-SHIT! Primo is a GREAT bulker, BUT YOU HAVE TO TAKE IN MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PROTEIN -- meat, milk, eagg, 3, 4, 5 shakes a day. Add some GEAR in-between meals and you'll be amazed how much muscle you'll grow on Primo.

And not for nothing, I would have KILLED in my day to have half the supplements available today. I was sucking doen brewers yeast and liver tablets for a possible extra ounce of muscle. Today you got supps that give near-roid like gains. Come on! No excuses!

It's time for bodybuilders to start acting like body builders again. It's about guts and will power and dedication. Frankly, I'm fed up with these guys coming on here asking if 100 mgs of anadrol is enough to pump their pecs. I'm all for helping people but these guys don't deserve to use steroids and I'm not going to fondle their nutsack while they figure out what the fuck they're doing. Go do some squattin ya fucking pussy! Gain 15 pounds , then come to me for advice on steroids, not sooner.

Okay, I'm done. Had to get that off my chest.
 
I'll go out on a limb here. If you're a 'hardgainer' don't worry about gaining a few lbs of fat. I repeat, if you're 5'11, 170 lbs you need to get bigger/stronger. You need to eat to gain weight. The xtra muscle will come in handy later when you do decide to cut.
 
nice one nelson. posts like this motivate me. boy do i wish i could bodybuild for a living, its an art to me. i enjoy looking at myself every morning and seeing what i need to work on and what has been going on.

and I love using minimal AAS and depending on my training and diet dictating my results. the AAS is just the icing on the cake for me, not what i base my workouts on.
 
Seriously ridiculous seeing how much some guys are doing and still so small. Then they talk about going out and drinking. Makes no sense to me.

You talking about primo makes me wanna try it. I respond really well to stuff and don't need much sure would love it.
 
Doing my first cycle again in 8 years, recomping so on limited calories but eating 300g of protein a day, and I squat, bench, barbell row... AND deadlift all 3x a week, and add weight to the bar every week. When I walk in the gym if I have not done heavy squats and bench or deadlift and rows... I don't play with upright rows, curls or other fluff. If I even both with them I do a few sets of incline curls or incline tricep extentions, or wrist curls, but such things only have their place after the real work is done. 22 days in, up 11 lbs, waist over an inch smaller, bodyfat lost... on 500mg of test a week. I lift to feel the bar frap, hear the plates jingle when they lock, and out of sheer hatred and contempt for the increasingly heavier weight that is attempting to pin me.

People on gear who are not making massive gains on low to moderate doses train like pussies , are afraid of overtraining and are afraid to lift heavy weights. They have a serious case of fukarounditis in the gym and as you said, are majorly lacking in the nutrition department. If you train like a pussy, and eat like a pussy, do not expect results.

Protein aside I am finding myself addicted to kiwi fruit this cycle... I eat them every day. They taste amazing and are full of micronutrients. :D
 
There are TWO things that so many people miss when it comes to making the most of their cycles. It's a tragedy.

The first is the fact that steroids make you stronger! That doesn't mean having an easier time of lifting the weights, it means you can train longer, harder, heavier and more often! THAT is , in part, what makes for better gains. I actually see some guys training EASIER because they think they don;t have to work as hard caues they're using the sauce.

Secondly, steroids recirculate nitrogen. That's what makes them anabolic. But without sufficient protein, there's nothing for the steroid to do! You MUST eat protein!!!

Sure, you can make gains without much regard to this stuff but it's also why so many people are dissatisfied with their results. So what do they do? What else? MORE STEROIDS!

It's also why so few people don't believe guys like Draper and Howorth and Scott look so good on 20 mgs of dianabol a day. That's because they have no idea how hard those guys worked. THEY TRAINED THIER DICKS OFF! They didn't know the meaning of overtraining. The results speak for themselves.

As for protein, it's so vital and so obvious that everyone takes it for granted. Ask 90% of the guys about Primo and they'll say ."Oh, that's a cutting drug. And it takes weeks to kick in." BULL-SHIT! Primo is a GREAT bulker, BUT YOU HAVE TO TAKE IN MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PROTEIN -- meat, milk, eagg, 3, 4, 5 shakes a day. Add some GEAR in-between meals and you'll be amazed how much muscle you'll grow on Primo.

And not for nothing, I would have KILLED in my day to have half the supplements available today. I was sucking doen brewers yeast and liver tablets for a possible extra ounce of muscle. Today you got supps that give near-roid like gains. Come on! No excuses!

It's time for bodybuilders to start acting like body builders again. It's about guts and will power and dedication. Frankly, I'm fed up with these guys coming on here asking if 100 mgs of anadrol is enough to pump their pecs. I'm all for helping people but these guys don't deserve to use steroids and I'm not going to fondle their nutsack while they figure out what the fuck they're doing. Go do some squattin ya fucking pussy! Gain 15 pounds , then come to me for advice on steroids, not sooner.

Okay, I'm done. Had to get that off my chest.

Hi there first cycle advice plz..... I've been training 5 yrs, im 6'0 165lb and im about to start my first cycle of test E, tren, dbol, and igf-1 and HGH....want to bulk up.


^^^^^^ you mean thats not how its done Nelson?? :evil:

This "discussion" reminds me of your Don Holworth interview and how he discussed training and AAS use. You should post that up again, its a great read and a nice reality check.
I read it again last week and i actually decided to drop my planned 500mg test wk for 10 weeks down to 375mg wk. See if I can do more with less.
I agree people (especially new people) get real carried away with AAS.
 
When i saw the title,my first thought was "me?"


you have some valid points nelson

just because you're on cycle is no reason to get slack ,heck i want to milk every rep i can get whether it's on or off cycle.
 
I've talked to a lot of those old timers and they speak about being so thrilled that a couple of pills a day accelerated their gains. They'd puke at what guys are taking today who look like they barely work out.


Even Arnold said the juice just gives an extra 10% but because everybody is going to try and get it, he was going to make sure he matched them.


I spoke to one famous title holder who said off the record, he thought everything over a gram was a waste but he did 2 grams for no other reason than it MIGHT give an extra little bit. AND THIS IS A PRO. COMPETING FOR TOP TITLES!!! So to see some asswipe coming along asking for advice on 2 gram cycles and people telling him he needs to do at leat 16 weeks?!?!?!?! It's utter bullshit. Get a little closer to the weight rack homie.
 
I did heavy squats today, and right now a wheelchair would be nice!
 
I did heavy squats today, and right now a wheelchair would be nice!

Same here, the ppl in my town are going to start thinking i have a stick permanently inserted in my ass over the way i walk from squatting 3x a week.
Coming up on the last 3 weeks of my 5x5 and shit is getting real ;)
Btw, all i can think about is my next 5x5 with my new pr's.
 
I love this thread!! There is an older trainer/bodybuilder in my gym who is in his 50s has been around the block a few times. Ha ha. His nick name for me is oldschool and I take it as the biggest compliment. Just by my training style and outlook on bb he says it reminds him of the old days. You gotta train and eat hard. If u can't grow off those things then go back to square one!!!

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness
 
Sticky!!!!!!!!!

i wonder how it would be to be on 20-30mg of anavar year around? Those old school bodybuilders dident use that much steroids but still achieved big gains!

I also think people should know the effects of lowing SHBG for a cycle! Winstrol and avavar just makes wonders for me in mass and strength, i build most strength on them and hopefully if everything goes with my heart issue ill be back on a imo low dose cycle "250mg test e / 50mg wins" for 10weeks

Tips n points:
High amounts of protein
Diet above energi or lower Bulk/Cut
Lowering SHGB
Recovering from cycle "PCT"
Researching ex, Eq ups collegen test lowers
and last but not least keeping track of general health
 
I dont really know you Nelson but I really dig your no bullshit attitude.. so many pussies nowadays

Stick around a while and you'll see that Nelson is pretty much the king of keeping shit real.

And thats not trying to be all up on Nelson's jock either. The man just writes real shit.
 
I couldn't agree more with this post man... I get so frustrated with the amount of people that think they by just running a cycle, that magic is going to happen... You should always train 100% everytime you train, or there's no point... However, on cycle, especially, you have the opportunity to get past plateaus and peaks... You need to go above and beyond your maximum efforts... I just can't understand anyone that would not do that... That's just half of it though as you said... Your diet has to be precise as well... You can get SO MUCH off a cycle if you do it correctly... You have to have determination, desire and precision and the opportunities are endless... I wish more people thought and lived by this... Great post!


There are TWO things that so many people miss when it comes to making the most of their cycles. It's a tragedy.

The first is the fact that steroids make you stronger! That doesn't mean having an easier time of lifting the weights, it means you can train longer, harder, heavier and more often! THAT is , in part, what makes for better gains. I actually see some guys training EASIER because they think they don;t have to work as hard caues they're using the sauce.

Secondly, steroids recirculate nitrogen. That's what makes them anabolic. But without sufficient protein, there's nothing for the steroid to do! You MUST eat protein!!!

Sure, you can make gains without much regard to this stuff but it's also why so many people are dissatisfied with their results. So what do they do? What else? MORE STEROIDS!

It's also why so few people don't believe guys like Draper and Howorth and Scott look so good on 20 mgs of dianabol a day. That's because they have no idea how hard those guys worked. THEY TRAINED THIER DICKS OFF! They didn't know the meaning of overtraining. The results speak for themselves.

As for protein, it's so vital and so obvious that everyone takes it for granted. Ask 90% of the guys about Primo and they'll say ."Oh, that's a cutting drug. And it takes weeks to kick in." BULL-SHIT! Primo is a GREAT bulker, BUT YOU HAVE TO TAKE IN MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PROTEIN -- meat, milk, eagg, 3, 4, 5 shakes a day. Add some GEAR in-between meals and you'll be amazed how much muscle you'll grow on Primo.

And not for nothing, I would have KILLED in my day to have half the supplements available today. I was sucking doen brewers yeast and liver tablets for a possible extra ounce of muscle. Today you got supps that give near-roid like gains. Come on! No excuses!

It's time for bodybuilders to start acting like body builders again. It's about guts and will power and dedication. Frankly, I'm fed up with these guys coming on here asking if 100 mgs of anadrol is enough to pump their pecs. I'm all for helping people but these guys don't deserve to use steroids and I'm not going to fondle their nutsack while they figure out what the fuck they're doing. Go do some squattin ya fucking pussy! Gain 15 pounds , then come to me for advice on steroids, not sooner.

Okay, I'm done. Had to get that off my chest.
 
nelson reminds me of this guy: I will second the squating comment... tired of guys coming up to me in the gym going ive been working out for a year now and im not making gains, should i use steroids? I ask them, what there training is like and they dont train legs, and have no idea how to deadlift.... as much as i hate deadlifting, i still do it... Love legs, so squating doesnt bother me... Heck i was a catcher for 20 years...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/L2glCe-dlo8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
^deadlifting is the toughest of all lifts. so its easy for them to avoid it. my heart rate and sweat goes nuts when i deadlift.

its brutal

Deadlift is one of my favorite exercises!! I love them. No matter what I get completely pumped when doing them. It was my best lift in powerlifting. I went three years without deadlifting more than a few times a year and maxed out at 585 raw at 202lbs. (I had done absolutely 0 training for this event and my best lift until then was 435 when I was still in high school at 160 lbs. Ha ha.) Nothing builds a thick back like em. They are a man maker or breaker!!!

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness
 
I'm a big fan of the big lifts as well. I like them that much that I add them to my cardio circuits and man do you feel fried after that ! love it!
 
I've done it -- heavy 4 rep sets but with less than a minute rest in-between sets. That'll get your heart rate up!

Monday is my heavy day.
Maybe I'll give that a try.
I'll try to stay in between 45 and 60 seconds rest, strictly.
right now I do 90 seconds on mondays.
 
gotta love this thread lol, nelson always keeps it real. i was actually thinking a while back and since this is the best oppertunity nelson would you mind posting links or copys of some of your interviews with the pros? ive read a few outakes from your book and wouldnt mind reading a few bits of interviews and articles youve written if you dont mind me askin!
 
gotta love this thread lol, nelson always keeps it real. i was actually thinking a while back and since this is the best oppertunity nelson would you mind posting links or copys of some of your interviews with the pros? ive read a few outakes from your book and wouldnt mind reading a few bits of interviews and articles youve written if you dont mind me askin!

Most of them were in mags and not online -- but I always liked this one.

I'm honored that he put it up on his facebook page. Don Howorth | Facebook

* By the way: there's some discrepancy in the d-bol dosages back then. Supposedly they came is 5, 10 and 25. Don said he took one a day, so even if it's 25 mgs, that's incredibly low dosed. Pretty amazing.
 
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wow nelson that was an amazing read! i think to have been in your positiong to have interviewed and spent time and even trained with some of the legends is an amazing thing thats something i think many of us would be envious about, don howarths build is nice after looking at his pic i like to thing that my body shape is not much dissimilar from the wide shoulders and long biceps, maybe ill post up some new pics soon after my current cycle, thanks for the read, if you come across anymore that you could share then please do! kind regards
 
Whats missing from most cycles?

1. Years of fucken hard work before even hitting the sauce.
2. Over-reliance on supplements. Yeah I said it, real food gives you the best results.
3. It's not about training harder, its about training smarter. Strength days and hypertrophy days ala WSBB and similar DC training styles result in good gains for most people. People go into the gym and dick around, not even knowing what they're gonna hit before they go in there. Not even logging weights and lifts etc. Idea here is to keep progressing.

The take away message a NEWB *could* get from reading your post, Nelson, is that he needs to spend hours in the gym. Which isn't true.

4. Thinking sauce is some magic *sauce* that'll get them ripped and shredded. Guys at 20% asking what drug will make them most vascular... durrr diet will before anything else.
 
You have shared brilliant post.Definitely there are something missing in the cycle.No doubt that Steroid make you stronger,now the time has to come that body builders have to act like genuine body builders.
 
I remember back in the day i supplemented with Orchid Tabs, They were deprived from Bull testicles,the theory was the Extra Testosterone boost, which did nothing!
 
Whats missing from most cycles?

1. Years of fucken hard work before even hitting the sauce.
2. Over-reliance on supplements. Yeah I said it, real food gives you the best results.
3. It's not about training harder, its about training smarter. Strength days and hypertrophy days ala WSBB and similar DC training styles result in good gains for most people. People go into the gym and dick around, not even knowing what they're gonna hit before they go in there. Not even logging weights and lifts etc. Idea here is to keep progressing.

The take away message a NEWB *could* get from reading your post, Nelson, is that he needs to spend hours in the gym. Which isn't true.

4. Thinking sauce is some magic *sauce* that'll get them ripped and shredded. Guys at 20% asking what drug will make them most vascular... durrr diet will before anything else.

Yeah, but the guy who spends hours in the gym will likely get better results than the guy who doesn't train hard enough. As you learn, you get to know how to work more effectively.
 
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