What to do?

[Joe Stenson]

That's completely false, a properly set-up bodyopus can yield a bodyfat loss of about 1-2lbs. per week and a gain of 0.3lbs. of muscle/week.

I would think UD2 is about the same in terms of those figures, but it still doesn't mean it's easy for people to do. It requires 100% dedication, and while you might argue that if the dedication isn't in place then he has no business using steroids at all, I'm sorry to say that the VAST majority of people do not have that level of dedication. If they did you'd see a lot more jacked guys walking around than you currently do.

It IS optimal to be at lower bodyfat numbers if you are starting an AS cycle.

Yes, I said that. And if he could drop 5% without losing much muscle that would be perfect. But what if he loses 10 lbs of LBM in the process? Was that drop in bodyfat worth it now?

Like I said above, I don't want to hear any "anybody can lose bodyfat while retaining virtually all of their muscle if they just know what they're doing" comments. I'm well aware of this. I'm also well aware that the reality is this just doesn't happen very often. Is this good? No. But it's reality.

 

[Ulter]

But what if he loses 10 lbs of LBM in the process? Was that drop in bodyfat worth it now?

He wouldn't diet hard enough to do that. It would take a LONG time to lose 10 pounds of LBM simply by using a clean 500cal deficit diet. In fact, he may never lose that much doing that.

 

[will b huge]

I am looking at his posts from a practical standpoint.
I am not advocating that he diet his ass off. That's the last thing I'd advise for reasons stated above. He'll lose some LBM that he may not have to. I am just looking at the overall picture here. Sure he may be able to cycle and cut like a pro but it’s not likely on a first cycle is it? He says he loses "size" just by eating clean for chrissakes.
At 24 yrs old with the training he is obviously doing, look at him, he can drop 3-5% just by eating clean for a couple months. He will add water and fat during his cycle unless he sees the light that has eluded him up until this point and learns the art of dieting on AS. He has no idea what his diet should look like. So as novice, again no offense to him, he's very likely to phuck it up and gain fat. So let’s say he does not drop body fat and cycles. He’s going to add water and probably A2 fat from the increase in E. Now he’s going to come off and have more work to do to get lean and the whole goal starts back at square one.
I have seen it hundreds of times in the last 5 years on this board. Once a novice starts a diet DURING a cycle he'll quit and start eating when he see he's getting smaller instead of bigger. Because they don't understand "cut" or as some people call it addition by subtraction.

I can cut on that test. I can drop 20 in 8 weeks on that test. But it took me a long time to figure out my body in order to be able to do that. So he’s better off getting closer to his goal before cycling and not wasting the gear.

I got ya, I looked at it from a completely different standpoint......I didn't think of that at all and I guess that was naive of me....I was completely looking at it as him doing it 100% the right way with DISCIPLINE---Tons of DISCIPLINE----almost competition type mindset........

You are correct bro.......

 

[krishna]

I'm looking at it from a realistic standpoint, which is he's probably going to do it anyway, so why not educate him on doing it the best way?

 

[Joe Stenson]

He wouldn't diet hard enough to do that. It would take a LONG time to lose 10 pounds of LBM simply by using a clean 500cal deficit diet. In fact, he may never lose that much doing that.

Simple calorie deficit diets usually are the ones that result in muscle loss...Granted, I suppose not as much as LARGE calorie deficit diets, but the way to keep muscle is cyclical dieting.

In any event, while it may take a "LONG" time to lose 10 lbs of LBM on a diet like that, it would also take a "LONG" time to drop 5% bodyfat. Like Krishna's saying, I'm guessing if this guy's asking about gear now, he's not planning on waiting 3-4 months to start.

Regardless, my original response to Mr. X was that some people have never been 10% in their life, and some people may not have any desire to get there either. To a natural endomorph like myself 10% is F'in shredded. I highly doubt I will ever decide to get any lower than that. To make being 10% a necessity before he does a cycle is a tad much IMO.

 

[LVTitan]

I'm looking at it from a realistic standpoint, which is he's probably going to do it anyway, so why not educate him on doing it the best way?

i'm not LOOKING at it at all, because for some reason the links for the pics wont work !!!

 

[van_wilder]

I am looking at his posts from a practical standpoint.
I am not advocating that he diet his ass off. That's the last thing I'd advise for reasons stated above. He'll lose some LBM that he may not have to. I am just looking at the overall picture here. Sure he may be able to cycle and cut like a pro but it’s not likely on a first cycle is it? He says he loses "size" just by eating clean for chrissakes.
At 24 yrs old with the training he is obviously doing, look at him, he can drop 3-5% just by eating clean for a couple months. He will add water and fat during his cycle unless he sees the light that has eluded him up until this point and learns the art of dieting on AS. He has no idea what his diet should look like. So as novice, again no offense to him, he's very likely to phuck it up and gain fat. So let’s say he does not drop body fat and cycles. He’s going to add water and probably A2 fat from the increase in E. Now he’s going to come off and have more work to do to get lean and the whole goal starts back at square one.
I have seen it hundreds of times in the last 5 years on this board. Once a novice starts a diet DURING a cycle he'll quit and start eating when he see he's getting smaller instead of bigger. Because they don't understand "cut" or as some people call it addition by subtraction.

I can cut on that test. I can drop 20 in 8 weeks on that test. But it took me a long time to figure out my body in order to be able to do that. So he’s better off getting closer to his goal before cycling and not wasting the gear.

This makes a lot of sense... it seems as if you really know your stuff! but my fear is that i lose size so quickly. I was really sick last year and dropped just over 20lbs in a month because i couldn't eat properly....so i'm a little nervous about losing size if i'm not dieting properly...

and should my bulking diet while "on" look significantly different than when bulking naturally?

 

[van_wilder]

In any event, while it may take a "LONG" time to lose 10 lbs of LBM on a diet like that, it would also take a "LONG" time to drop 5% bodyfat. Like Krishna's saying, I'm guessing if this guy's asking about gear now, he's not planning on waiting 3-4 months to start.

I could probably wait... although i am eager to start, i'd rather do this properly... i've already invested too much time in the gym and at the kitchen table to fuck it up.
VW

 

[van_wilder]

i'm not LOOKING at it at all, because for some reason the links for the pics wont work !!!

seem to work for me...
VW

 

[krishna]

i'm not LOOKING at it at all, because for some reason the links for the pics wont work !!!

What links? The pics are on his first thread. Must not be working for you. Wilder's got some guns, and he's probably better off than a lot of people on here were when they first started gear. I still say he's ready if he wants to start.