What to do?

[van_wilder]

okay...looking for some advice...
i'd like to run my first cycle (test only)... but should i lean out a little first??? what do you guys think? I'd like to put on some more size! or should i hold off the cycle all together and keep at er naturally???
VW

shitty cam sorry. and be brutally honest. and i can't pose worth shit. stats are 5'10 210lbs.
VW out.

 

[sandman_007]

yeah i think your best bet is to lose some BF first before starting

 

[krishna]

How old are you? You obviously have some work-out history. If you feel like you've been hitting it hard for awhile, and reached a plateau, then I'd say go for it. A lot of guys will tell you to lean up some first, but if you're looking for size, just keep your diet clean and hit the test IMO.

 

[marshallmadman]

You will find that if you eat right, and hit it hard, that you will start to seemingly drop bodyfat and harden up while on. I know I do.

 

[Apexx]

your bf% really isn't too bad. Just looking at your pics, you've obviously been around the gym for a while so I say hit the sauce. Just make sure that you do your research before jumping into a cycle.

 

[Joe Stenson]

Unless you're planning on doing a slow bulk (more of a body recomposition) or a cut, I'd try to get a little leaner first. In other words, I wouldn't suggest going on and hitting up an 8K calorie bulking diet. You wouldn't be a disgusting mess if you added a little more bodyfat, but you'd want to keep it minimal.

 

[Mr.X]

I would suggest dropping down to 10% bf then bulking up.

Mr.X

 

[van_wilder]

How old are you? You obviously have some work-out history. If you feel like you've been hitting it hard for awhile, and reached a plateau, then I'd say go for it. A lot of guys will tell you to lean up some first, but if you're looking for size, just keep your diet clean and hit the test IMO.

thanks for the input... i'm 25, been at it for 4 years or so... and i do feel as if the growth has definatley slowed... i've gained over 60lbs since i've started so i'm wondering if i'm nearing a genetic plateau?
VW

 

[van_wilder]

You will find that if you eat right, and hit it hard, that you will start to seemingly drop bodyfat and harden up while on. I know I do.

I was wondering about this.... is it fairly common???? any more experiences like this? i'm wondering if i just buld while on but eat REALLY clean. I've had a really hard time gaining when i eat too clean, and i've gained the weight by throwing in some "bad" foods on occassion.
VW

 

[BigGunsInc.]

damn bro, you are going to be a MONSTER if and when you do lean up and run a some test. you have a solid foundation! start dieting and keep us updated. you have obviously put some time in the gym!

good luck

BGI

 

[van_wilder]

I would suggest dropping down to 10% bf then bulking up.

Mr.X

Maybe some help with the diet to do this??? i'm hesitant because i don't want to lose too much size, being so small for a long time has given me issues

VW

 

[krishna]

thanks for the input... i'm 25, been at it for 4 years or so... and i do feel as if the growth has definatley slowed... i've gained over 60lbs since i've started so i'm wondering if i'm nearing a genetic plateau?
VW

I'd do test e 500 mg/wk for ten weeks. Add some a-dex to keep the bloat off. Eat clean and train right (don't forget cardio), and you should make some nice progress. I wouldn't jack up your calories for a massive bulker because you do still have some bf to lose. Just keep it clean and steady. I think you're ready bro.

 

[van_wilder]

I'd do test e 500 mg/wk for ten weeks. Add some a-dex to keep the bloat off. Eat clean and train right (don't forget cardio), and you should make some nice progress. I wouldn't jack up your calories for a massive bulker because you do still have some bf to lose. Just keep it clean and steady. I think you're ready bro.

really? 500... i wanted to start off small, i've gotten advice from a competitor who feels strongly that you should try to gain off low doses for as long as possible as later on it will be a lot easier to gain off higher ones... not sure if there is any validity to this theory though.
VW

 

[Joe Stenson]

I would suggest dropping down to 10% bf then bulking up.

Assuming we're talking a REAL 10% here (not your standard "internet 10%", which everyone claims to be at or under), I can't say I agree. While it might be optimal if he could drop that low before starting, some people have a tough time getting anywhere near that %, especially without losing size. If you're not naturally lean it's going to be a LONG road dieting naturally to 10%, unless you're willing to sacrifice boatloads of muscle.

really? 500... i wanted to start off small, i've gotten advice from a competitor who feels strongly that you should try to gain off low doses for as long as possible as later on it will be a lot easier to gain off higher ones... not sure if there is any validity to this theory though.
VW

500's a pretty standard first cycle bro. Could you gain off 250/week better than you could naturally? I'm sure you could, but most people including myself don't see the point.

 

[krishna]

I did 250 - 375 of sust for 10 weeks for my first cycle and I gained 28 lbs. I was eating 5000+ cals a day though and ended up having to trim fat off afterwards, but I have maintained 18 pounds solid. If you want to start small, by all means do so. I know from experience that it works well.

 

[littleb]

i think you would be ok to start, as posted above though just dont do a big bulker. my first cycle i had extra bf, i added about 15lbs when all was said and done, and lost a little bf. just eat realllll clean..

 

[van_wilder]

i think you would be ok to start, as posted above though just dont do a big bulker. my first cycle i had extra bf, i added about 15lbs when all was said and done, and lost a little bf. just eat realllll clean..

did you lose bf on cycle? or after cycle? what are opinions on a 12 weeker, bulking for 8 and cutting for the last 4?
VW

 

[krishna]

It's not really efficient to try to bulk and cut on one cycle of test. I think your best bet is when the clean diet, and slow, steady gains.

 

[needtogetaas]

I was wondering about this.... is it fairly common???? any more experiences like this? i'm wondering if i just buld while on but eat REALLY clean. I've had a really hard time gaining when i eat too clean, and i've gained the weight by throwing in some "bad" foods on occassion.
VW

I allways lose bf on anny cycle.I thout every one did.

 

[van_wilder]

I allways lose bf on anny cycle.I thout every one did.

so do you think i can go ahead and start a cycle then and try to keep it really clean?
VW

 

[krishna]

You can gain fat on AAS (easily)! Ya just keep it clean and add some a-dex if you can.

 

[Mr.X]

Assuming we're talking a REAL 10% here (not your standard "internet 10%", which everyone claims to be at or under), I can't say I agree. While it might be optimal if he could drop that low before starting, some people have a tough time getting anywhere near that %, especially without losing size. If you're not naturally lean it's going to be a LONG road dieting naturally to 10%, unless you're willing to sacrifice boatloads of muscle.


.

That's completely false, a properly set-up bodyopus can yield a bodyfat loss of about 1-2lbs. per week and a gain of 0.3lbs. of muscle/week.

It IS optimal to be at lower bodyfat numbers if you are starting an AS cycle.

Mr.X

 

[will b huge]

I'd do test e 500 mg/wk for ten weeks. Add some a-dex to keep the bloat off. Eat clean and train right (don't forget cardio), and you should make some nice progress. I wouldn't jack up your calories for a massive bulker because you do still have some bf to lose. Just keep it clean and steady. I think you're ready bro.

This post above is EXACTLY what I agree with and you are more than ready now.....You have an outstanding base and your bodyfat isnt that high.....I also think that you would lose a good deal of bodyfat by running test now and eating clean.....when you are done with the test...you will be very bulked, then you can take a few months off and then do a HUGE CUTTING CYCLE....

Good Luck to you Bro and props to you too...

 

[TRAINHD]

I'd do test e 500 mg/wk for ten weeks. Add some a-dex to keep the bloat off. Eat clean and train right (don't forget cardio), and you should make some nice progress. I wouldn't jack up your calories for a massive bulker because you do still have some bf to lose. Just keep it clean and steady. I think you're ready bro.

Exactly what krishna said.

 

[Ulter]

You guys have to pay more attention in Elite School. Mr X is right about getting rid of fat FIRST, and the funniest statement here, no flame intended, is "I've had a really hard time gaining when i eat too clean, and i've gained the weight by throwing in some "bad" foods on occassion".

That's right you do lose size when you eat clean. You lose FAT. Throw in some junk and presto you're big again. Not LBM big, just fatter. The people posting that you don't want to diet and get your body fat down because you'll lose gains need to spend some time evaluating that mindset. If you cycle the steroids will HAVE NO AFFECT on your body fat mass. And just because you look in the mirror after dieting and see a smaller body doesn't mean you've lost the LBM you've earned by training. It means you are smaller because you've lost your fat mass.
Get rid of the FAT and THEN cycle. Steroids are not a fattasses remedy to a hard body. It doesn't work like that. Not that VW is a fattass by any means. You look great good bro. Just tighten it up a bit before using that test.

 

[krishna]

You guys have to pay more attention in Elite School. Mr X is right about getting rid of fat FIRST, and the funniest statement here, no flame intended, is "I've had a really hard time gaining when i eat too clean, and i've gained the weight by throwing in some "bad" foods on occassion".

That's right you do lose size when you eat clean. You lose FAT. Throw in some junk and presto you're big again. Not LBM big, just fatter. The people posting that you don't want to diet and get your body fat down because you'll lose gains need to spend some time evaluating that mindset. If you cycle the steroids will HAVE NO AFFECT on your body fat mass. And just because you look in the mirror after dieting and see a smaller body doesn't mean you've lost the LBM you've earned by training. It means you are smaller because you've lost your fat mass.
Get rid of the FAT and THEN cycle. Steroids are not a fattasses remedy to a hard body. It doesn't work like that. Not that VW is a fattass by any means. You look great good bro. Just tighten it up a bit before using that test.

The reason I said to go ahead is because he is still looking to add some mass. There's not much use to "tighten up" if he still wants to get bigger. That's why I suggested he keep it clean so he can continue to add quality muscle, and not anymore fat. If done right, he could even be cutting fat. Besides, most people who ask about using gear are gonna do it anyway. I mean the guy is old enough, and has enough history in the gym for us to at least give him the best advice on using if he's gonna use anyway. I see where you're coming from though. k to you bro!

 

[TRAINHD]

You guys have to pay more attention in Elite School. Mr X is right about getting rid of fat FIRST, and the funniest statement here, no flame intended, is "I've had a really hard time gaining when i eat too clean, and i've gained the weight by throwing in some "bad" foods on occassion".

That's right you do lose size when you eat clean. You lose FAT. Throw in some junk and presto you're big again. Not LBM big, just fatter. The people posting that you don't want to diet and get your body fat down because you'll lose gains need to spend some time evaluating that mindset. If you cycle the steroids will HAVE NO AFFECT on your body fat mass. And just because you look in the mirror after dieting and see a smaller body doesn't mean you've lost the LBM you've earned by training. It means you are smaller because you've lost your fat mass.
Get rid of the FAT and THEN cycle. Steroids are not a fattasses remedy to a hard body. It doesn't work like that. Not that VW is a fattass by any means. You look great good bro. Just tighten it up a bit before using that test.

I think everyone reacts different to GEAR I know when I'm done with PCT I've generally lost some BF as well as water(that might also be because I dont do any cardio while on yeah I know shame on me)But yeah ULTER you have a valid point in getting BF down before getting on the GEAR,I just have the habbit of bulking completely then cutting.Just seems to be less stress on my body IMO.

 

[will b huge]

You guys have to pay more attention in Elite School. Mr X is right about getting rid of fat FIRST, and the funniest statement here, no flame intended, is "I've had a really hard time gaining when i eat too clean, and i've gained the weight by throwing in some "bad" foods on occassion".

That's right you do lose size when you eat clean. You lose FAT. Throw in some junk and presto you're big again. Not LBM big, just fatter. The people posting that you don't want to diet and get your body fat down because you'll lose gains need to spend some time evaluating that mindset. If you cycle the steroids will HAVE NO AFFECT on your body fat mass. And just because you look in the mirror after dieting and see a smaller body doesn't mean you've lost the LBM you've earned by training. It means you are smaller because you've lost your fat mass.
Get rid of the FAT and THEN cycle. Steroids are not a fattasses remedy to a hard body. It doesn't work like that. Not that VW is a fattass by any means. You look great good bro. Just tighten it up a bit before using that test.

You are obviously very educated, but I had one question for you:

If he is going to diet hard to cut out bodyfat, ie...eating 2k-3k or so calories consisting of all chicken breast, tuna, egg whites, baked potatos, brown rice,etc....and riding the bike for a minimum of 1 hour per day------and doing this all while taking TEST and training very hard and heavy, then he will significantly drop bodyfat over the 10 weeks while adding several pounds of Lean Body Mass to his already very good sized bi's??????? Do you agree with this????? (At least this way would be my personal preference, but----
I do understand that if he just dieted his ass off now and got his abs to come in, etc....and then hit the test hard with tons of clean calories he might gain more mass than if he ran the other way, but he-------ah, nevermind--I will wait to hear your opinion......

Thanks for sharing your knowledge bro...its always good to read your posts.....

 

[coloradosteve]

If you start out at 500mg per week and don't like the bloat and have a hard time managing the sides, you could always cut down to 375 per week. It's not like you're locked into a certain mg per week.

 

[Ulter]

I am looking at his posts from a practical standpoint.
I am not advocating that he diet his ass off. That's the last thing I'd advise for reasons stated above. He'll lose some LBM that he may not have to. I am just looking at the overall picture here. Sure he may be able to cycle and cut like a pro but it’s not likely on a first cycle is it? He says he loses "size" just by eating clean for chrissakes.
At 24 yrs old with the training he is obviously doing, look at him, he can drop 3-5% just by eating clean for a couple months. He will add water and fat during his cycle unless he sees the light that has eluded him up until this point and learns the art of dieting on AS. He has no idea what his diet should look like. So as novice, again no offense to him, he's very likely to phuck it up and gain fat. So let’s say he does not drop body fat and cycles. He’s going to add water and probably A2 fat from the increase in E. Now he’s going to come off and have more work to do to get lean and the whole goal starts back at square one.
I have seen it hundreds of times in the last 5 years on this board. Once a novice starts a diet DURING a cycle he'll quit and start eating when he see he's getting smaller instead of bigger. Because they don't understand "cut" or as some people call it addition by subtraction.

I can cut on that test. I can drop 20 in 8 weeks on that test. But it took me a long time to figure out my body in order to be able to do that. So he’s better off getting closer to his goal before cycling and not wasting the gear.

 

[Joe Stenson]

That's completely false, a properly set-up bodyopus can yield a bodyfat loss of about 1-2lbs. per week and a gain of 0.3lbs. of muscle/week.

I would think UD2 is about the same in terms of those figures, but it still doesn't mean it's easy for people to do. It requires 100% dedication, and while you might argue that if the dedication isn't in place then he has no business using steroids at all, I'm sorry to say that the VAST majority of people do not have that level of dedication. If they did you'd see a lot more jacked guys walking around than you currently do.

It IS optimal to be at lower bodyfat numbers if you are starting an AS cycle.

Yes, I said that. And if he could drop 5% without losing much muscle that would be perfect. But what if he loses 10 lbs of LBM in the process? Was that drop in bodyfat worth it now?

Like I said above, I don't want to hear any "anybody can lose bodyfat while retaining virtually all of their muscle if they just know what they're doing" comments. I'm well aware of this. I'm also well aware that the reality is this just doesn't happen very often. Is this good? No. But it's reality.

 

[Ulter]

But what if he loses 10 lbs of LBM in the process? Was that drop in bodyfat worth it now?

He wouldn't diet hard enough to do that. It would take a LONG time to lose 10 pounds of LBM simply by using a clean 500cal deficit diet. In fact, he may never lose that much doing that.

 

[will b huge]

I am looking at his posts from a practical standpoint.
I am not advocating that he diet his ass off. That's the last thing I'd advise for reasons stated above. He'll lose some LBM that he may not have to. I am just looking at the overall picture here. Sure he may be able to cycle and cut like a pro but it’s not likely on a first cycle is it? He says he loses "size" just by eating clean for chrissakes.
At 24 yrs old with the training he is obviously doing, look at him, he can drop 3-5% just by eating clean for a couple months. He will add water and fat during his cycle unless he sees the light that has eluded him up until this point and learns the art of dieting on AS. He has no idea what his diet should look like. So as novice, again no offense to him, he's very likely to phuck it up and gain fat. So let’s say he does not drop body fat and cycles. He’s going to add water and probably A2 fat from the increase in E. Now he’s going to come off and have more work to do to get lean and the whole goal starts back at square one.
I have seen it hundreds of times in the last 5 years on this board. Once a novice starts a diet DURING a cycle he'll quit and start eating when he see he's getting smaller instead of bigger. Because they don't understand "cut" or as some people call it addition by subtraction.

I can cut on that test. I can drop 20 in 8 weeks on that test. But it took me a long time to figure out my body in order to be able to do that. So he’s better off getting closer to his goal before cycling and not wasting the gear.

I got ya, I looked at it from a completely different standpoint......I didn't think of that at all and I guess that was naive of me....I was completely looking at it as him doing it 100% the right way with DISCIPLINE---Tons of DISCIPLINE----almost competition type mindset........

You are correct bro.......

 

[krishna]

I'm looking at it from a realistic standpoint, which is he's probably going to do it anyway, so why not educate him on doing it the best way?

 

[Joe Stenson]

He wouldn't diet hard enough to do that. It would take a LONG time to lose 10 pounds of LBM simply by using a clean 500cal deficit diet. In fact, he may never lose that much doing that.

Simple calorie deficit diets usually are the ones that result in muscle loss...Granted, I suppose not as much as LARGE calorie deficit diets, but the way to keep muscle is cyclical dieting.

In any event, while it may take a "LONG" time to lose 10 lbs of LBM on a diet like that, it would also take a "LONG" time to drop 5% bodyfat. Like Krishna's saying, I'm guessing if this guy's asking about gear now, he's not planning on waiting 3-4 months to start.

Regardless, my original response to Mr. X was that some people have never been 10% in their life, and some people may not have any desire to get there either. To a natural endomorph like myself 10% is F'in shredded. I highly doubt I will ever decide to get any lower than that. To make being 10% a necessity before he does a cycle is a tad much IMO.

 

[LVTitan]

I'm looking at it from a realistic standpoint, which is he's probably going to do it anyway, so why not educate him on doing it the best way?

i'm not LOOKING at it at all, because for some reason the links for the pics wont work !!!

 

[van_wilder]

I am looking at his posts from a practical standpoint.
I am not advocating that he diet his ass off. That's the last thing I'd advise for reasons stated above. He'll lose some LBM that he may not have to. I am just looking at the overall picture here. Sure he may be able to cycle and cut like a pro but it’s not likely on a first cycle is it? He says he loses "size" just by eating clean for chrissakes.
At 24 yrs old with the training he is obviously doing, look at him, he can drop 3-5% just by eating clean for a couple months. He will add water and fat during his cycle unless he sees the light that has eluded him up until this point and learns the art of dieting on AS. He has no idea what his diet should look like. So as novice, again no offense to him, he's very likely to phuck it up and gain fat. So let’s say he does not drop body fat and cycles. He’s going to add water and probably A2 fat from the increase in E. Now he’s going to come off and have more work to do to get lean and the whole goal starts back at square one.
I have seen it hundreds of times in the last 5 years on this board. Once a novice starts a diet DURING a cycle he'll quit and start eating when he see he's getting smaller instead of bigger. Because they don't understand "cut" or as some people call it addition by subtraction.

I can cut on that test. I can drop 20 in 8 weeks on that test. But it took me a long time to figure out my body in order to be able to do that. So he’s better off getting closer to his goal before cycling and not wasting the gear.

This makes a lot of sense... it seems as if you really know your stuff! but my fear is that i lose size so quickly. I was really sick last year and dropped just over 20lbs in a month because i couldn't eat properly....so i'm a little nervous about losing size if i'm not dieting properly...

and should my bulking diet while "on" look significantly different than when bulking naturally?

 

[van_wilder]

In any event, while it may take a "LONG" time to lose 10 lbs of LBM on a diet like that, it would also take a "LONG" time to drop 5% bodyfat. Like Krishna's saying, I'm guessing if this guy's asking about gear now, he's not planning on waiting 3-4 months to start.

I could probably wait... although i am eager to start, i'd rather do this properly... i've already invested too much time in the gym and at the kitchen table to fuck it up.
VW

 

[van_wilder]

i'm not LOOKING at it at all, because for some reason the links for the pics wont work !!!

seem to work for me...
VW

 

[krishna]

i'm not LOOKING at it at all, because for some reason the links for the pics wont work !!!

What links? The pics are on his first thread. Must not be working for you. Wilder's got some guns, and he's probably better off than a lot of people on here were when they first started gear. I still say he's ready if he wants to start.

 

[Jenetic]

okay...looking for some advice...
i'd like to run my first cycle (test only)... but should i lean out a little first??? what do you guys think? I'd like to put on some more size! or should i hold off the cycle all together and keep at er naturally???
VW

The majority of unwanted and/or uneccessary fat gain during cycles is attributed to poor diet. The "seefood" diet is the path of least resistance and is just an excuse to over eat and to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing by "bulking". It's a hard fact for many people to realize that they just don't have what it takes.

With a properly managed diet and intelligent training program, there is absolutely no reason any individual cannot make excellent improvements to their body composition: gain lean body mass and reduce body fat. This is different than going to one end of the spectrum or the other. When the emphasis is foccussed on one goal or the other, a different approach should be taken.

You look fine, if not better than most people who do use AAS and I see no reason why you can't begin a cycle.

Jenetic

 

[van_wilder]

What links? The pics are on his first thread. Must not be working for you. Wilder's got some guns, and he's probably better off than a lot of people on here were when they first started gear. I still say he's ready if he wants to start.

Thanks bro... must spread karma around....

 

[van_wilder]

The majority of unwanted and/or uneccessary fat gain during cycles is attributed to poor diet. The "seefood" diet is the path of least resistance and is just an excuse to over eat and to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing by "bulking". It's a hard fact for many people to realize that they just don't have what it takes.

With a properly managed diet and intelligent training program, there is absolutely no reason any individual cannot make excellent improvements to their body composition: gain lean body mass and reduce body fat. This is different than going to one end of the spectrum to ther other. When the emphasis is foccussed on one goal or the other, a different approach should be taken.

You look fine, if not better than most people who do use AAS and I see no reason why you can't begin a cycle.

Jenetic

So assuming i just clean i should be okay? what if i were to keep bulking cleanly but throw in some cardio and something like thermorexin or an ECA stack?
VW

 

[krishna]

The majority of unwanted and/or uneccessary fat gain during cycles is attributed to poor diet. The "seefood" diet is the path of least resistance and is just an excuse to over eat and to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing by "bulking". It's a hard fact for many people to realize that they just don't have what it takes.

With a properly managed diet and intelligent training program, there is absolutely no reason any individual cannot make excellent improvements to their body composition: gain lean body mass and reduce body fat. This is different than going to one end of the spectrum to ther other. When the emphasis is foccussed on one goal or the other, a different approach should be taken.

You look fine, if not better than most people who do use AAS and I see no reason why you can't begin a cycle.

Jenetic

Jenetic has spoken! You're good to go bro.

 

[Jenetic]

So assuming i just clean i should be okay? what if i were to keep bulking cleanly but throw in some cardio and something like thermorexin or an ECA stack?
VW

I don't like the term "eating clean." since it's widely used incorrectly. You need to structure your diet properly in order to take in the correct ammount of calories and ratio of macronutrients. This is done in realtionship to your physical activity. In addition, it helps to plan it accordingly to your activity level and rest throughout the day. This is something you need to do your homework on if you haven't already done so.

If you want to add in supplements, I would reccomend a low dosage of Levorex in combination with Glucorell R, primarily for their nutrient partioning effects.

Complicate the situation by trying to do too much or attain perfection and you will find yourself wasting time on the interenet searching for answers when you should be executing your game plan and seeing results.

Keep it simple.

Jenetic

 

[Joe Stenson]

I don't like the term "eating clean." since it's widely used incorrectly. You need to structure your diet properly in order to take in the correct ammount of calories and ratio of macronutrients. This is done in realtionship to your physical activity. In addition, it helps to plan it accordingly to your activity level and rest throughout the day. This is something you need to do your homework on if you haven't already done so.

GREAT post. I can't believe how many people say "just cut out the junk and you'll be fine". Trust me, I could get fat eating chicken and rice. It wouldn't be as much fun getting fat eating pizza and ice cream, but I could still do it .

Anyway I digress, point is eating clean and throwing a couple cardio sessions in here and there isn't enough to ensure purely LBM gains. Counting calories is a must.

 

[will b huge]

The majority of unwanted and/or uneccessary fat gain during cycles is attributed to poor diet. The "seefood" diet is the path of least resistance and is just an excuse to over eat and to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing by "bulking". It's a hard fact for many people to realize that they just don't have what it takes.

With a properly managed diet and intelligent training program, there is absolutely no reason any individual cannot make excellent improvements to their body composition: gain lean body mass and reduce body fat. This is different than going to one end of the spectrum or the other. When the emphasis is foccussed on one goal or the other, a different approach should be taken.

You look fine, if not better than most people who do use AAS and I see no reason why you can't begin a cycle.

Jenetic

The above statement is EXACTLY what I posted yesterday on page 2 of this thread.....I feel EXACTLY the same way, but as ULTER pointed out, if you don't eat properly, you will just get fatter and fatter, not quite bulking.....YOU WILL lose body fat and increase lean body mass if you put in the discipline and are smart.....

 

[krishna]

Granted a lot of people don't really know how to "eat clean", but to those who do, "eating clean" is just an easier way to say it.

 

[Joe Stenson]

Granted a lot of people don't really know how to "eat clean", but to those who do, "eating clean" is just an easier way to say it.

There's also lots of foods that are kind of "on the fence" when it comes to whether or not they are "clean". I mean you have things like McDonald's burgers which fairly clearly are not clean, and you have a plain chicken breast with a bowl of oats which obviously is. But what about something like a perogy? I'm sure to some this would be clean, and to others it wouldn't be.

 

[van_wilder]

I don't like the term "eating clean." since it's widely used incorrectly. You need to structure your diet properly in order to take in the correct ammount of calories and ratio of macronutrients. This is done in realtionship to your physical activity. In addition, it helps to plan it accordingly to your activity level and rest throughout the day. This is something you need to do your homework on if you haven't already done so.

If you want to add in supplements, I would reccomend a low dosage of Levorex in combination with Glucorell R, primarily for their nutrient partioning effects.

Complicate the situation by trying to do too much or attain perfection and you will find yourself wasting time on the interenet searching for answers when you should be executing your game plan and seeing results.

Keep it simple.

Jenetic

Okay... so for the most part i sit in an office all day in front of a computer... the only real physical activity i do is at the gym...
I've tried to do my homework with regards to nutrition, but it is difficult to find this type of info.. where do i look? My long term goal (doubt it's possible but it's nice to dream) would be to possibly compete in a small show one day! So what i'm saying is i'm willing to put in the work researching and living the lifestyle... i'm just not sure where to look for the right info!
I do have to admit though that i'm not 100% with my diet by any means... i usually just make sure i'm getting enough protein and veg in a day, and throw in some rice, potatoes and whole weat bread as a side. I wouldn't be able to give you an exact calorie count... is this something i need to have perfected before i start my cycle?
(sorry about all the stupid questions guys, i really don't know who else to ask and i really appreciate you help and patience)
VW

 

[krishna]

There's also lots of foods that are kind of "on the fence" when it comes to whether or not they are "clean". I mean you have things like McDonald's burgers which fairly clearly are not clean, and you have a plain chicken breast with a bowl of oats which obviously is. But what about something like a perogy? I'm sure to some this would be clean, and to others it wouldn't be.

I don't know what perogy is. To me, eating clean is getting the right protein/carb(simple and complex)/fats ratio into the right amount of calories for each meal. I only eat whole foods (I stay away from processed foods) including raw veges, nuts, meats, fruits, dairy, and whole grains (brown rice, oats etc.). The only time I intake sugar is post-workout, and I don't even consider starchy carbs such as pastas clean, so I don't eat those either.

 

[Ulter]

I don't know what perogy is

Sheltered life huh? Bro you haven't lived until you've had a blueberry perogy. It's POLISH food. Kind of like a big ravioli.

 

[needsize]

originally I was going to say drop a few % of bf before starting, but some of the other guys like jenetic have a point. If you keep your diet clean, but very high in protein, then no reason why you cant start a cycle now....you already look better than a lot of guys with a bunch of cycles behind them

 

[pentatonic]

My opinion is your good to go now. Eat good foods while on. Your bodyfat % is not bad and I wouldn't worry about dropping it before you start your cycle. I think you will see your bodyfat % drop and gain lean mass while on your first cycle as long as your diet is in check. DIET is the key.

I would go with 400-500mg of Test Enanthate or Cypionate per week for 10 weeks.
Have Nolva on hand in case gyno symptoms arise, probably won't but just in case.
THen follow a good PCT plan.

 

[Joe Stenson]

To me, eating clean is getting the right protein/carb(simple and complex)/fats ratio into the right amount of calories for each meal. I only eat whole foods (I stay away from processed foods) including raw veges, nuts, meats, fruits, dairy, and whole grains (brown rice, oats etc.). The only time I intake sugar is post-workout, and I don't even consider starchy carbs such as pastas clean, so I don't eat those either.

You see "eating clean" to me means something slightly different, and I'm sure it does for a lot of people. Personally, I don't think "eating clean" has anything to do with ratios. I think it only encompasses the types of food you are eating. Ratios may or may not be important, but you could still eat crap and have the desired ratios.

The foods you listed sound good and I agree with; pasta is one of those "on the fence" things I mentioned.

I don't know what perogy is.

Sheltered life huh? Bro you haven't lived until you've had a blueberry perogy. It's POLISH food. Kind of like a big ravioli.

lol, I've never heard of a blueberry one before, but sounds interesting.

A perogy is usually sort of a dumpling-like thing with potato and something else (cheese, onion, bacon, etc.) as the filling. The macros of one are actually quite good, but this depends on how you cook it. They taste a LOT better fried in butter or oil and then with a huge dollop of sour cream on top. Mmmmmmmmmmmm...but at that point they're definitely not "clean", lol.

 

[krishna]

You see "eating clean" to me means something slightly different, and I'm sure it does for a lot of people. Personally, I don't think "eating clean" has anything to do with ratios. I think it only encompasses the types of food you are eating. Ratios may or may not be important, but you could still eat crap and have the desired ratios.

The foods you listed sound good and I agree with; pasta is one of those "on the fence" things I mentioned.





lol, I've never heard of a blueberry one before, but sounds interesting.

A perogy is usually sort of a dumpling-like thing with potato and something else (cheese, onion, bacon, etc.) as the filling. The macros of one are actually quite good, but this depends on how you cook it. They taste a LOT better fried in butter or oil and then with a huge dollop of sour cream on top. Mmmmmmmmmmmm...but at that point they're definitely not "clean", lol.

You could also have the right foods and the wrong ratios.....eating clean means you gotta have both.

 

[Ulter]

No that's right joe, no one would ever mistake a perogy for clean diet food. Depending on where you go in Poland you get them with all kinds of filling. Many people put things in them for breakfast or as a desert. But yes, they are a version of Polish dumpling.

 

[krishna]

You could also have the right foods and the wrong ratios.....eating clean means you gotta have both.

And in order to get you desired ratios, you cannot still eat crap.

 

[Joe Stenson]

You could also have the right foods and the wrong ratios.....eating clean means you gotta have both.

I would still consider that eating clean. I also don't believe in ratios, but if you're diet was really off base (something absurd like 90% carbs, 5% fat, 5% protein) I'd just chalk that up to a lack of knowledge. The guy would still be eating "clean", maybe not eating intelligently, but his food choices are still "clean".

 

[krishna]

We're not arguing over word play are we? If someone doesn't have the right ratios, they won't get the right results.

 

[will b huge]

I would still consider that eating clean. I also don't believe in ratios, but if you're diet was really off base (something absurd like 90% carbs, 5% fat, 5% protein) I'd just chalk that up to a lack of knowledge. The guy would still be eating "clean", maybe not eating intelligently, but his food choices are still "clean".

ULTER!!!!- I, NOW, understand what you mean....Sorry bro....This is NOT what I meant when saying "Eating Clean".....I didn't understand how so many people think completely differently about eating clean, like ULTER completely understood how some would perceive this........

When I say "EATING CLEAN"---I mean completely clean....I mean 6-7 small meals per day consisting of the following ONLY:
chicken breast
tuna
egg whites
brown rice
baked potato
some veggies---onions, lettuce, etc..
black pepper, mustard
whey high protein shakes
WATER---TONS OF WATER

Nothing else: No bread, no pasta, no pizza, no fast food, no snacks, no desserts, NO SUGAR!!!!!!!! (Take multivitamins)

Then RIDE YOUR ASS OFF on the bike!!!!! (Morning and Night if you can---45-60 minutes each session)

NOW: The above is for all that want/need to cut serious body fat.....This schedule will drastically take the body fat off and will rip you up.....ADD AAS and you can add some great lean body mass.........


(Eating clean does NOT mean going through the drive through at McDonalds and choosing the healthy choice burger or whatever JOE STENSON mentioned above...)


Good Luck and Control that DISCIPLINE---Nothing is ever easy

 

[krishna]

Ya you know what's up willbhuge, eating clean means eating right; not just what you eat, but also when you eat, and how you combine your foods.

 

[LVTitan]

looking good VW, finally got the links to work. yes you are in better shape than a lot of guys who have done alot of juice that i know.
hard to believe you were ever as small as me !