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what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around itself?
- Thread starter AAP
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alien amp pharm
Guest
I think they have that right. Same as me building a fence to keep people out of my yard.
jestros
Banned
Well, I agreed with it until I read a little bit about it. They are actually cutting into palistinian territory with thier wall. And in some cases, separating palistinians homes and land.alien amp pharm said:
So actually it would be like building a fence that encompassed your neighbors back yard.
A
alien amp pharm
Guest
jestros said:
According to the Palistinians all of it is/should be their land, so who knows.
The wall my solve some of the problems due to denied access, but may also cause greater resentment and thus more attacks. Only time will tell.
A
alien amp pharm
Guest
I bet George Spellman could find a way to sneak a bomb thru a concrete wall. He's sneaky with those bomb thingys.
Best thing that ever happened.
It furthers peace by making it more difficult for some of these attacks to occur. That has already been demonstrably proven where the fence exists.
It also puts pressure on the Palestinians to reach some kind of accord, and effectively seperates the majority of them from their Israeli countreparts.
There is some land grabbing taking place, depending on perspective, but there is a recognition within Israel that concessions will need to be made. From their perspective it also serves as a bargaining chip they can wield when serious negotiations begin
It furthers peace by making it more difficult for some of these attacks to occur. That has already been demonstrably proven where the fence exists.
It also puts pressure on the Palestinians to reach some kind of accord, and effectively seperates the majority of them from their Israeli countreparts.
There is some land grabbing taking place, depending on perspective, but there is a recognition within Israel that concessions will need to be made. From their perspective it also serves as a bargaining chip they can wield when serious negotiations begin
Allon
New member
eat big said:
Not true, Arabs and jews only started fighting since the 20's when zionism started. Always got on quite well b4 that.
The wall does cut into their territory. But what exactly is their territory is yet to truly be defined and agreed upon. That is part of the problem with the wall as the arabs say that Israel is using the wall to define the territory.
The worst part is when it cuts through farmland so palestinians who have a field they need to harvest, when part of it is on the other side of the wall have to travel to the nearest checkpoint, wait for hours and get searched as well as get a permit to enter Israel b4 this, and then travel back to their field on the other side of the wall, and then return home at the end of the day... imagine it, it sucks, as well as the humiliation. Sometimes they don't even get to go do the work and lose crops...
The reason the wall is built in some of these places is often due to the fact that if the wall is built in a certain place and to continue it you have to go around a certain area makes it much less practicle to build it as well as making it close to Israeli settlements. Obviously Israel who controls the territories called palestine will always choose the option that suits Israel best and not consider some Palestinian farmers. It sucks but thats life...
As an Israeli I might add that I have no solid opinion about this wall.
I hate the fact it exists and everything I stand for is against this kind of thing.
On the other hand, if it saves lives?.....
All in all, the majority of Israeli's (including myself at times) feel that the palestinians are the ones who caused us to build it. until they "grow up" and accept Israels superiority and right to exist, they are sealing their own fate behind this wall apart from any other inconveniance that their people are going through.
Hey, they had a democratic election this week, the first arab state ever to do this, so maybe there is hope?
Dirk Howat
New member
jestros said:
Jews are hypocrites. They are like modern Nazi's going for living space "lebensraum", creating ghettos for palastinians, segregation, government sponsered attempts at eugenics and racial breeding with their rural community. They are all for that in Israel
But do they recommend a fence in Mexico or Canada or the same policies for other groups, like Arabs?
When dealing with Jews:
Do as Jews do/recommend for themselves (Isrealie policies benefiting their own group)
not
what Jews recommend for non-Jews (their t.v./movie propaganda).
.
G
Gambino
Guest
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
and the republican successor will say "Mr.Goldstein, tear down this wall!"
and the crowd will go wild
PERFECTWORLD said:
and the republican successor will say "Mr.Goldstein, tear down this wall!"
and the crowd will go wild
Tiervexx
New member
jestros said:
It IS Palestinian land. We (including allies such as the UK) took it by force.
Israel is the aggressor in this struggle.
eat big said:
Wrong. There was very little fighting between the Jews and the Muslims from ancient times up until after we decided to give the land to the Jews because it is in the bible.
Our relationship with the Middle-Eastern “extremists” is like that of a big kid that decided to kick a bee-hive and then cry about how evil the bees are for stinging him. Of course nobody likes to admit that they are at fault, it is much easier to just deny and blame, than to actually stop and think about the fact that there is a reason why nearly all neutral observers are able to see that we are the aggressors.
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
we are all chosen on this planet..
whoever said that was a spokesman of the jewish people so obviously he will speak only well of his religion...
i am a chosen one too because i think i am and my thoughts come from God therefore I am God's Chosen Woman
PERFECTWORLD said:I Pretty sure the Bible Says
the Jews are Gods "Chosen People".
we are all chosen on this planet..
whoever said that was a spokesman of the jewish people so obviously he will speak only well of his religion...
i am a chosen one too because i think i am and my thoughts come from God therefore I am God's Chosen Woman
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
No worries.
I dont believe in the Bible/Christanity.Yasmina said:we are all chosen on this planet..
whoever said that was a spokesman of the jewish people so obviously he will speak only well of his religion...
i am a chosen one too because i think i am and my thoughts come from God therefore I am God's Chosen Woman
No worries.
G
Gambino
Guest
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
historicaly it has been palestine land? i don't think so...
Tiervexx said:
historicaly it has been palestine land? i don't think so...
who the hell cares if it was Palestine land or not
these people are like the dog with the bone, they lick it, hide it, fight for it for a long time...immature... I am saying that because most of planet earth has been divided, redivided and renamed many times and people have migrated from place to place....
lets all start a war and reclaim the TRUE land!!!! its impossible...and we know it.....why are the chosen people always fighting?
these people are like the dog with the bone, they lick it, hide it, fight for it for a long time...immature... I am saying that because most of planet earth has been divided, redivided and renamed many times and people have migrated from place to place....
lets all start a war and reclaim the TRUE land!!!! its impossible...and we know it.....why are the chosen people always fighting?
Dirk Howat
New member
PERFECTWORLD said:I Pretty sure the Bible Says
the Jews are Gods "Chosen People".
Yo hater (thanks for the negative karma with the comment "hater")
People like you are the haters.
You believe that Jews are God's Choosen People.
That is a bold statement.
Prove it. If you do not believe it, why say it?
Most every people and religious belief, "thinks" they are
GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE
Which is why you have wars, territorial conquest, subjugation of non-believers, etc..............
Dirk Howat
New member
PERFECTWORLD said:
Are you Jewish?
Else, what you are saying does not make sense.
There are alot of athiestic jews who are nazis (racial imperalists).
canadianhitman
Well-known member
I'd build a wall around myself too if I was surrounded by crazy ass suicide bombers. I don't have any problems with the wall...it will serve a purpose to keep the sides apart until they can both grow up and compromise.
GoldenDelicious
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
i wonder how many non jews shrugged their shoulders during the holocaust? "oh well, im not jewish, i really dont have an opinion on taht."
not nice when its coming the other way, is it?
the palestinians ARE grown up, and are fighting the only way they can - with huge losses and certain death, in the face of a vastly superior foe.
take a look at what is happening to them before you open your mouth and start telling people to grow up. look at your policies, and accept that they are in fact the root cause of all the drama, rather than passing the blame to an opressed, desperate, righteous people.
if i were a jew, i would be trying to get my government to back off and do the right thing, before the monsters they have created grow wings and really, really do some damage.
but thats just me.
yes, its funny how people get along well when one group isnt trying to dispossess the otherAllon said:
well, when a palestinian family has been farming the land since before the state of israel existed, then really, anyone with a mediocum of sense realises that that particular bit of land is theirs and by extension, palestinian territory. therefore the "agreeance" you are talking about isnt about tracing back the owners of the land and coming to a fair conclusion - rather, it is israel leaning on the palestinian landowner until they "agree" that it isnt worth the hassle anymore and accept taht they have to cut their losses and move on.Allon said:
i dont know how you can pick a "worst" part of israels disgusting opression of the palestinians, but yes, that aspect is particularly vile imo.Allon said:
i dont like it when people brush off injustice like that by shrugging and saying that it is "life". violent and sadistic tendancies exist in all of us, so when someone goes out and kills someone else, we dont shrug it off and say "eh, thats life" - we find the perpetrator, and in a socially responsible manner, deal with the situation for the betterment of all. the fact of the matter here is that the placement of the wall has much much less to do with terrain and ease of building, than it does with grabbing hundreds of square kilometers of palestinian land. anyone who buys that "its easier to build there" excuse is either in denial, stupid, or going along with the plot. besides, the wall is illegal, why should anyone care if the wall is easier or harder to build, given taht israel doesnt have the right to build it in the first place.Allon said:
i love it when no one has an opinion and yet atrocities are committed in their names, then they shrug their shoulders and go on with life.Allon said:
i wonder how many non jews shrugged their shoulders during the holocaust? "oh well, im not jewish, i really dont have an opinion on taht."
not nice when its coming the other way, is it?
oh fuck off. "grow up" my fucking ass. do you think that the palestinian people are collectively stupid, and live only to blow themselves up taking as many jews with them as possible? what a fucking stupid comment. it defies logic, and common sense. lets get is straight- PEOPLE ARE SO ANGRY AS TO PREFER TO DIE IN AN EXPLOSION IN THE PRIME OF THEIR LIVES, RATHER THAN GO ON LIVING AS THEY HAVE. it is not rational to say that the palestinian collective should "grow up" - rather, you have to step back and say "why are these people so angry that they are willing to die to kill us?"Allon said:
the palestinians ARE grown up, and are fighting the only way they can - with huge losses and certain death, in the face of a vastly superior foe.
take a look at what is happening to them before you open your mouth and start telling people to grow up. look at your policies, and accept that they are in fact the root cause of all the drama, rather than passing the blame to an opressed, desperate, righteous people.
ah, no. what youre seeing is called "maneuvering". while israel maintains its policies, this will never, ever stop. to many people have died, too many blood feuds have been lit. i would be shit scared of the palestinians if i were a jew, because those mofos are brave, in the right, uncaring of their lives, and perfectly liable to detonate a WMD in israel if they can.Allon said:
if i were a jew, i would be trying to get my government to back off and do the right thing, before the monsters they have created grow wings and really, really do some damage.
but thats just me.
Testosterone boy
New member
No problem with a wall on their property.
Attaching Palestinian land is just theft.
Attaching Palestinian land is just theft.
beachbum777
New member
WRONG wrong wrong If you are a christian then your religion believes that the jews are gods chosen people. On judgement day the jews who switch and become christians will be saved. Judgement day can only come with the jews inhabiting jerulesum. Thats why we gave it to them after WWII.Dirk Howat said:
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
Just curious, in your opinion, what would the "right thing" be? Pack up and leave? Or just not put up the wall?
On a side note, anyone who hasnt already should read up on the history of Hamas and the positive contributions they perform to the Palestinian community.
GoldenDelicious said:
Just curious, in your opinion, what would the "right thing" be? Pack up and leave? Or just not put up the wall?
On a side note, anyone who hasnt already should read up on the history of Hamas and the positive contributions they perform to the Palestinian community.
GoldenDelicious
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
stop establishing illegal israeli communities well into palestinian territory, since the purpose of doing so is merely to make it that much harder to pull out of palestine, and to foster resentment on the israeli home front
relinquish illegally annexed/occupied territory, or compromise EQUITABLY
stop killing police officers, politicians, useful members of the palestinian community
stop undermining palestinian political entities through thuggish tactics entirely, and particularly eliminate the use of thuggish standover tactics eg isolation of arafat in his compound, destruction of his airstrip etc etc
stop intentionally obstructing/hindering palestinian social/educational institutions, eg destruction of schools and records offices for no reason other than to hinder the development of palestinian intellectuals, and foster chaos in the palestinian economic/educational/governmental apparatus
basically, the right thing for israel to do is to back off and stop taking what it wants by force of arms, rather than simple economics or diplomacy. as it stands, what israel is doing is a travesty, particularly given that the holocaust is within living memory - how can a group that was so victimised and is currently so powerful, be so oppressive, and frankly, inhumane, to another group of people, given that they themselves endured such terrible treatment a mere half century ago?
if something severe happens in israel, i dont think that there will be terribly much sympathy for them...at least not from me. while i dont like the idea that anyone should die or endure hardship, i feel that, as a society, the israelis should NOT allow their government to inflict treatment on people taht so closely parallels what they went through in the holocaust. imo they should be a supremely socially responsible group of people, and their lack of compassion or human regard for their neighbors shows their true nature rather acutely.
it is the moral and social responsibility of EVERY israeli NOT to allow their government to do such things to the palestinians. they are morally bankrupt, imo, and if something happens to them at the hands of the arabs, well...i guess i have no opinion on that
the right thing to do?75th said:
stop establishing illegal israeli communities well into palestinian territory, since the purpose of doing so is merely to make it that much harder to pull out of palestine, and to foster resentment on the israeli home front
relinquish illegally annexed/occupied territory, or compromise EQUITABLY
stop killing police officers, politicians, useful members of the palestinian community
stop undermining palestinian political entities through thuggish tactics entirely, and particularly eliminate the use of thuggish standover tactics eg isolation of arafat in his compound, destruction of his airstrip etc etc
stop intentionally obstructing/hindering palestinian social/educational institutions, eg destruction of schools and records offices for no reason other than to hinder the development of palestinian intellectuals, and foster chaos in the palestinian economic/educational/governmental apparatus
basically, the right thing for israel to do is to back off and stop taking what it wants by force of arms, rather than simple economics or diplomacy. as it stands, what israel is doing is a travesty, particularly given that the holocaust is within living memory - how can a group that was so victimised and is currently so powerful, be so oppressive, and frankly, inhumane, to another group of people, given that they themselves endured such terrible treatment a mere half century ago?
if something severe happens in israel, i dont think that there will be terribly much sympathy for them...at least not from me. while i dont like the idea that anyone should die or endure hardship, i feel that, as a society, the israelis should NOT allow their government to inflict treatment on people taht so closely parallels what they went through in the holocaust. imo they should be a supremely socially responsible group of people, and their lack of compassion or human regard for their neighbors shows their true nature rather acutely.
it is the moral and social responsibility of EVERY israeli NOT to allow their government to do such things to the palestinians. they are morally bankrupt, imo, and if something happens to them at the hands of the arabs, well...i guess i have no opinion on that
beachbum777
New member
Anyone remember the israeli guy posting a few weeks ago? If half of the country feels and acts like that guy.........
Creepusmaximus
New member
Looks like a better built Berlin wall doesn't it?
canadianhitman
Well-known member
Creepusmaximus said:
Yeah, but the Berlin Wall formidable because of the series of fences the East side. Between the fences there were attack dogs, and there were snipers perched in watchtowers waiting for some fool to try and get through that as well.
beachbum777
New member
Yasmina said:
It was written in the bible jews.etc so he probaly was jewish but i dont believe they were trying to establish themselves as better. After 2000 years christian still preach this as the word as god. The jews will turn to christianity on judgement day.
Allon
New member
Golden delicious...
You obviously did not really understand what I was writing. If you had any realistic sense about this or any situation, you would realize that I am about as far left as you get when it comes to Israeli's. Yet my whole post you treat as a fascistic, immoral, insensitive statement. You read it how you wanted to hear it but thats fine...
It is life. Palestinians have been offered many peace deals by Israel and instead of accepting anything, they say no... we will kill you.
No other country would put up with what Israel puts up with, but it is easy for you to talk from Australia... Why don't you go back to England or Ireland and give it back to the aborigani's? I will tell you why. Because thats life. It is too late for that now. It makes no sense to do it at this point. Even though it would be just.
Jews on the other hand didn't come from somewhere else and take palestine. We have nowhere to go back to...
Anyway, you didn't want to hear the honest opinion of an Israeli, you just wanted to give a righteous speech about how bad Israel is... I think you may be a bit naive.
I am not even gonna waste my time replying to Dirk Howat.
You obviously did not really understand what I was writing. If you had any realistic sense about this or any situation, you would realize that I am about as far left as you get when it comes to Israeli's. Yet my whole post you treat as a fascistic, immoral, insensitive statement. You read it how you wanted to hear it but thats fine...
It is life. Palestinians have been offered many peace deals by Israel and instead of accepting anything, they say no... we will kill you.
No other country would put up with what Israel puts up with, but it is easy for you to talk from Australia... Why don't you go back to England or Ireland and give it back to the aborigani's? I will tell you why. Because thats life. It is too late for that now. It makes no sense to do it at this point. Even though it would be just.
Jews on the other hand didn't come from somewhere else and take palestine. We have nowhere to go back to...
Anyway, you didn't want to hear the honest opinion of an Israeli, you just wanted to give a righteous speech about how bad Israel is... I think you may be a bit naive.
I am not even gonna waste my time replying to Dirk Howat.
bluepeter
New member
I feel that building a wall to protect your citizens is OK except when you are building it right through someone else's land. That's bullshit.
There is much talk about Palestinians being terrorists but very little about the fact that Israel are terrorists too. Just because they do it with brute strength and superior weaponry instead of blowing themselves up with cheesy homemade bombs doesn't mean they aren't.
I always have to laugh at the Israeli argument 'we have nowhere else to go'. So that justifies the brutal oppression and annexation of another people? Fuck no. I have no land so I should go and forcibly take someone else's and then kill some of them every time they attack me to try and drive me off?
There is much talk about Palestinians being terrorists but very little about the fact that Israel are terrorists too. Just because they do it with brute strength and superior weaponry instead of blowing themselves up with cheesy homemade bombs doesn't mean they aren't.
I always have to laugh at the Israeli argument 'we have nowhere else to go'. So that justifies the brutal oppression and annexation of another people? Fuck no. I have no land so I should go and forcibly take someone else's and then kill some of them every time they attack me to try and drive me off?
Allon
New member
Well, actually if you have no place to go and something like the holocast happens then yes, most people would be very aggresive about finding a place to live with security. I have no issue with that and I don't care about history and who Israel/palestine belonged to before then. It is controlled by Israel now. Palestinians need to "grow up" and swallow their pride and accept the reality. It is the only way anything positive will start to happen for them.
Israel are definitely terrorists. I agree with that. Actually, if it was reversed and we were the one to be the weaker, I am sure we would be much more resourcefull and evil than them with our terror tactics. But we have an army and we leave the unofficial "terror" to them.
I am definitely for giving up the territories and taking down the wall. I hate settlers more than I hate palestinian terrorists. The army is made of people, some of which are trigger happy for sure... It is a horrible situation. But for someone in snuggly canada or safe australia to think they can judge Israels situation or be self righteous about it is a bit ridiculous for us Israeli's. You cannot compare our situation to anyones and we are looking for peace. Not for escalation.
The way I see it, is that the palestinians are digging their own hole. They are up against a despearte enemy who are backed to a wall. We take our countries security very seriously and will not risk that for anything. They need to realize this.
We off course have things that we need to realize and change also.
But this thread is about the wall. And I explained my view on that in my first post here.
Israel are definitely terrorists. I agree with that. Actually, if it was reversed and we were the one to be the weaker, I am sure we would be much more resourcefull and evil than them with our terror tactics. But we have an army and we leave the unofficial "terror" to them.
I am definitely for giving up the territories and taking down the wall. I hate settlers more than I hate palestinian terrorists. The army is made of people, some of which are trigger happy for sure... It is a horrible situation. But for someone in snuggly canada or safe australia to think they can judge Israels situation or be self righteous about it is a bit ridiculous for us Israeli's. You cannot compare our situation to anyones and we are looking for peace. Not for escalation.
The way I see it, is that the palestinians are digging their own hole. They are up against a despearte enemy who are backed to a wall. We take our countries security very seriously and will not risk that for anything. They need to realize this.
We off course have things that we need to realize and change also.
But this thread is about the wall. And I explained my view on that in my first post here.
bluepeter
New member
Allon said:
I don't disagree with many of your points but to say Israel is looking for peace is slightly ridiculous. Israel goads Palestinians every chance they get and building a wall through their land is just another example. That is not the way to promote peace. That said, the Palestinians are certainly not promoting peace with their tactics either. I don't really consider myself on either side of the debate, both parties need to grow up otherwise this mess will go on for another couple of decades.
Both sides need to suck it up and make significant concessions. Currently, the only thing happening if further inciting each other.
GoldenDelicious
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
)
the very phrase you used to describe yourself, "as far left as you get when it comes to Israeli's" serves to illustrate your own bias, and when i ponder taht people like you are the "left" in israel, then all it serves to do is disgust me even more.
i didnt attack you in your post (generally, though i was not in love with your callous attitude towards a people for whom you seem to ahve little regard, with your "thats life" comment) but rather the policies of your state. i have nothing against you personally, as you are the product of your surroundings, but objectively, when i read a post created by a mind raised in israel (yours), i am more aware of the sort of social mindset that exists in Israel, and find it sickening.
logically, since israel is the agressor, it should make the most concessions. given what i have seen/read about the state of israel so far, i can see why the palestinians are not prone to accept a deal with them anytime soon
get out of your victim mindset before you talk to me, please.
israel = agressor
palestinians = opressed victims
it is not for the israelis to complain about having to "put up" with anything. it is for israel to, ah, how shall we say...GET THE FUCK OUT
now, as for the plight of the australian aboriginies - i am actually all for giving the land back to them. that is fair, imo. it is theirs, and they should have it. however, there are now many many people living in relatively small areas of the country, and so, and EQUITABLE arrangement must be made between indiginous and non indiginous owners, which i am all for. as the situation here now stands, we are in the business of identifying landowners (since many areas of the country were in fact owned by no one or are owned by tribes that have become extinct, and have been annexed by the commonwealth government (as is any property when a person dies without an heir) ) and in the meantime, tehre are many programs designed and funded specifically for aboriginies, to educate and compensate tehm until they, as a group, are sufficiently educated/literate (there is a huge problem wiht this particular aspect - many of the mofos cant read etc) and thenthey may procede with hammering out details in court
oh, and just so you know, my heritage is greek. not irish, or scottish, or english. im not one of those pasty white mofos 
please, save your bullshit for someone who can be diverted by bullshit.
fuck me drunk. a jew stealing land on the basis that they have no land, thereby making the other person landless, and that making it alright, and then telling me that that is why it is acceptable conduct....PPPPPFFFFTTTTTT
and youre wrong about me wanting to hear the opinion of an israeli - i heard it, and was disgusted by the undertones of what i read. what it seems to me is that you dont like my response to your opinion, and really wanted to say "oh, youre so nice for an israeli! so logical! so rational!"
sorry mate, i think your thinking and rationale is bent out of shape by your bias.
cheerios
no, i understood it quite well, i can assure you. what you might perhaps consider is that it is difficult to see what is what when youre the one in the bubble - while you are "as far left as you get when it comes to Israeli's", you are not as far left as truly objective observers (like me, in far away australiaAllon said:
)the very phrase you used to describe yourself, "as far left as you get when it comes to Israeli's" serves to illustrate your own bias, and when i ponder taht people like you are the "left" in israel, then all it serves to do is disgust me even more.
i didnt attack you in your post (generally, though i was not in love with your callous attitude towards a people for whom you seem to ahve little regard, with your "thats life" comment) but rather the policies of your state. i have nothing against you personally, as you are the product of your surroundings, but objectively, when i read a post created by a mind raised in israel (yours), i am more aware of the sort of social mindset that exists in Israel, and find it sickening.
well, it seems taht for some reason or other, they were not willing to accept the deal. possible reasons for this are obvious (and please, lets not describe the entire palestinian populace as being stupid bloodthirsty suicide bombers) but logically, the two taht come to the surface are 1) the deals that israel came up with were not favorable to the palestinians, and 2) there is too much hate/righteous resentment built up in the minds of the palestinians, making them less susceptable to compromise.Allon said:
logically, since israel is the agressor, it should make the most concessions. given what i have seen/read about the state of israel so far, i can see why the palestinians are not prone to accept a deal with them anytime soon
put up with? what do you mean, put up with?Allon said:
get out of your victim mindset before you talk to me, please.
israel = agressor
palestinians = opressed victims
it is not for the israelis to complain about having to "put up" with anything. it is for israel to, ah, how shall we say...GET THE FUCK OUT
now, as for the plight of the australian aboriginies - i am actually all for giving the land back to them. that is fair, imo. it is theirs, and they should have it. however, there are now many many people living in relatively small areas of the country, and so, and EQUITABLE arrangement must be made between indiginous and non indiginous owners, which i am all for. as the situation here now stands, we are in the business of identifying landowners (since many areas of the country were in fact owned by no one or are owned by tribes that have become extinct, and have been annexed by the commonwealth government (as is any property when a person dies without an heir) ) and in the meantime, tehre are many programs designed and funded specifically for aboriginies, to educate and compensate tehm until they, as a group, are sufficiently educated/literate (there is a huge problem wiht this particular aspect - many of the mofos cant read etc) and thenthey may procede with hammering out details in court
oh, and just so you know, my heritage is greek.
not irish, or scottish, or english. im not one of those pasty white mofos wait wait wait wait hang on, hang on. excuse me? you cant do the right thing because you dont have anywhere to go? you mean, the founding of the israeli state in the middle of arab territory because jews, as a group, had "nowhere else to go" (where the fuck did you guys live before that? in the clouds?) is justification for illegal, immoral, inhumane action?Allon said:
please, save your bullshit for someone who can be diverted by bullshit.
fuck me drunk. a jew stealing land on the basis that they have no land, thereby making the other person landless, and that making it alright, and then telling me that that is why it is acceptable conduct....PPPPPFFFFTTTTTT
look i dont know who dirk howat is, and so i agree, replying to him would be a waste of timeAllon said:
and youre wrong about me wanting to hear the opinion of an israeli - i heard it, and was disgusted by the undertones of what i read. what it seems to me is that you dont like my response to your opinion, and really wanted to say "oh, youre so nice for an israeli! so logical! so rational!"
sorry mate, i think your thinking and rationale is bent out of shape by your bias.
cheerios
Allon
New member
Goldendelicious and blue peter. If you were to come to Israel you would see things differently probably.
Goldendelicious. You are naive and aggressive in your posts. You are self righteous and misinformed. You have no grasp of reality. LOL, you obviously have lived a real cushioned existense with no real dangers or paranioa about the future of your people.
I wish all people were like you. There would be no wars. But they are not like you, and therefore if Israeli's/Jews were to see things the way you do, we would be extinct.
Go take a walk through Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq. Tell me after that, that Israel have nothing to be worried about and should see things the way you do.
Anyway, really, I only answered on this thread as I thought an Israeli's point of view of the wall would be interesting to the thinkers here. Not to defend it or anything about Israel, just to show my point of view.
Pick a fight with some else if that is what you are looking for. There are many "causes" out there. Are you a vegetarian?
Goldendelicious. You are naive and aggressive in your posts. You are self righteous and misinformed. You have no grasp of reality. LOL, you obviously have lived a real cushioned existense with no real dangers or paranioa about the future of your people.
I wish all people were like you. There would be no wars. But they are not like you, and therefore if Israeli's/Jews were to see things the way you do, we would be extinct.
Go take a walk through Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq. Tell me after that, that Israel have nothing to be worried about and should see things the way you do.
Anyway, really, I only answered on this thread as I thought an Israeli's point of view of the wall would be interesting to the thinkers here. Not to defend it or anything about Israel, just to show my point of view.
Pick a fight with some else if that is what you are looking for. There are many "causes" out there. Are you a vegetarian?
Allon
New member
bluepeter said:
LOL, ok you got me there, good point.
I really do see their side of it. I just don't not see the Israeli side of it either... I am full of contradictions.
All in all I do think Israel needs to leave the victim mindest in order to be able to deal with this situation, still doesn't mean I don't think that palestinian government doesn't need to change the goals and tactics. The wall is Israels dramatic answer at this moment to the escalted violence and won't go down for some time unfortunately.
bluepeter
New member
Allon said:LOL, ok you got me there, good point.
I really do see their side of it. I just don't not see the Israeli side of it either... I am full of contradictions.
All in all I do think Israel needs to leave the victim mindest in order to be able to deal with this situation, still doesn't mean I don't think that palestinian government doesn't need to change the goals and tactics. The wall is Israels dramatic answer at this moment to the escalted violence and won't go down for some time unfortunately.
Yes, both sides need to change tactics and putting up a wall across Palestinian land is not a positive move with regards to this.
I liken it to 2 people having a dialogue about a touchy subject they cannot agree upon. At some point, the dialogue becomes an argument and one party simply throws up a mental wall, refusing to engage in further communication. That is not a healthy way to communicate and will only harden the other person's resolve.
GoldenDelicious
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
you mistake passion for agression...and perhaps slight irritation.
as to your comment that i have lived a sheltered life, well, in many ways i have - as do most people that have access to a computer and clean water. that doesnt mean that my opinion is worthless, however, nor does it mean that i am far from the truth.
something that i have often thought of in the israeli/palestinian conflict, though - and seems to pop up everytime someone says "why dont the palestinians just get over it" or similar - why is it that the jews need their own state anyway? i mean, they were dispersed throughout the world and seemed to be doing fine (apart form pissing off hitler, who tried to kill them all) - i mean, its double edged - firstly, there is no real need for a state called Israel to exist. jews seem quite happy living in other places, and so logically, assimilation into other peoples, or merely living amongst other peoples as a seperate culture seems to be a conflict-free way to do it, and secondly, if jews are so quick to say to palestinians "why dont you accept that we are superior" etc etc....well then, why did they not do the same before 1920, and just accept that the land formerly known as israel was lost?
anyway, truth be told, im just sick of the pro israeli spin i see everywhere. if you say something bad about a jew, youre anti-semitic. jewish soldiers always fight palestinian 'gunmen'. examples are everywhere, and people are buying it. pisses me off.
anyway
naive...perhaps. if i were naive, i wouldnt know it, and hence any proclamation that i am not would be meaningless. i dont think that i am, however.Allon said:
you mistake passion for agression...and perhaps slight irritation.
as to your comment that i have lived a sheltered life, well, in many ways i have - as do most people that have access to a computer and clean water. that doesnt mean that my opinion is worthless, however, nor does it mean that i am far from the truth.
something that i have often thought of in the israeli/palestinian conflict, though - and seems to pop up everytime someone says "why dont the palestinians just get over it" or similar - why is it that the jews need their own state anyway? i mean, they were dispersed throughout the world and seemed to be doing fine (apart form pissing off hitler, who tried to kill them all) - i mean, its double edged - firstly, there is no real need for a state called Israel to exist. jews seem quite happy living in other places, and so logically, assimilation into other peoples, or merely living amongst other peoples as a seperate culture seems to be a conflict-free way to do it, and secondly, if jews are so quick to say to palestinians "why dont you accept that we are superior" etc etc....well then, why did they not do the same before 1920, and just accept that the land formerly known as israel was lost?
anyway, truth be told, im just sick of the pro israeli spin i see everywhere. if you say something bad about a jew, youre anti-semitic. jewish soldiers always fight palestinian 'gunmen'. examples are everywhere, and people are buying it. pisses me off.
anyway
Allon
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
Your last point about the pro israeli spin I understand your point of view completely and even agree with your opinion.
Regarding why does Israel have to exist? FUCK OFF! - LOL -
GoldenDelicious said:
Your last point about the pro israeli spin I understand your point of view completely and even agree with your opinion.
Regarding why does Israel have to exist? FUCK OFF! - LOL -
GoldenDelicious
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
oooooooh but its the palestinians who are unreasonable?Allon said:Your last point about the pro israeli spin I understand your point of view completely and even agree with your opinion.
Regarding why does Israel have to exist? FUCK OFF! - LOL -
jestros
Banned
I think its a little late to give the country back to the palistinians. But I think that Israel was founded on bullshit principals. The zionists used every bit of sympathy post wwII.
Here's a good analogy for the founding of Isreal.
There's a group of homeless living scattered throughout the city. One day they get together and say "hey my great great granddaddy used to live in that house on the hill."
So they get some guns, kick in the door, throw out the occupants and say "It's my house now bitch"
Here's a good analogy for the founding of Isreal.
There's a group of homeless living scattered throughout the city. One day they get together and say "hey my great great granddaddy used to live in that house on the hill."
So they get some guns, kick in the door, throw out the occupants and say "It's my house now bitch"
GoldenDelicious
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
well, i can see why palestinians take to your countrymen with explosive vestsAllon said:
Allon
New member
Thought some you may find this interesting - http://www.jpost.com/
See Israeli press, I am not so into news and newspapaers, too much propaganda, but you will get more of a feel of the Israeli perspective if it interests you.
See Israeli press, I am not so into news and newspapaers, too much propaganda, but you will get more of a feel of the Israeli perspective if it interests you.
Allon
New member
G
Gambino
Guest
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
LOL why do they need their own state, fucking retarded statement.
"Just accept that Israel was lost" Just move on, it's only a homeland...
Mayn, your posts are just a tad annoying today. You are too self rigtheous and you fail to see things from any perspective except your own.
As well, it appears you hide behind intelluctual thought when really you dislike jews for some reason.
you bash USA and Israel though i doubt you have ever been to either nation.
Goldend = Hater
Oh and Dirk, that was me not PW that gave you red k with "hater"
I'll make sure to hit your dumbass again
GoldenDelicious said:
LOL why do they need their own state, fucking retarded statement.
"Just accept that Israel was lost" Just move on, it's only a homeland...
Mayn, your posts are just a tad annoying today. You are too self rigtheous and you fail to see things from any perspective except your own.
As well, it appears you hide behind intelluctual thought when really you dislike jews for some reason.
you bash USA and Israel though i doubt you have ever been to either nation.
Goldend = Hater
Oh and Dirk, that was me not PW that gave you red k with "hater"
I'll make sure to hit your dumbass again
GoldenDelicious
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
theres a hole in your logic, dear henry, dear henry, theres a hole in your logic, dear henry a hole
i have nothing to do with the conflict, though - i really dont win or lose despite who wins. i can, however, see the difference between right and wrong, justice and injustice - and the palestinians are being screwed big time by the jews.
as per your karma message, i think it important to realise taht not agreeing with jewish policy does not make you anti-semitic. it just means that you do not agree with their policy - and israel has many, many hateful policies that they use towards the palestinians
i find it dissapointing that i can write long, articulate posts that explain my reasoning quite clearly, and theh get bullshit like "you hate jews for some reason"
how idiotic.
you dont have to go someplace to form the opinions i have.
hell, many americans were born in america, but are among the most ignorant people i have ever come across. your opinion on this subject, for example, makes me think the same thing...
retarded for me to say it about israel, but perfectly fine for the israelis to say it about the palestinians.Gambino said:
theres a hole in your logic, dear henry, dear henry, theres a hole in your logic, dear henry a hole
well by definition, everybody only ever sees anything from their own perspective.Gambino said:
i have nothing to do with the conflict, though - i really dont win or lose despite who wins. i can, however, see the difference between right and wrong, justice and injustice - and the palestinians are being screwed big time by the jews.
as per your karma message, i think it important to realise taht not agreeing with jewish policy does not make you anti-semitic. it just means that you do not agree with their policy - and israel has many, many hateful policies that they use towards the palestinians
i dont hide behind anything. in fact im doing the opposite. logically, if i wanted to hide anything, i would just keep my mouth shut. by putting my ideas forward, im actually exposing myself, NOT hiding.Gambino said:
i find it dissapointing that i can write long, articulate posts that explain my reasoning quite clearly, and theh get bullshit like "you hate jews for some reason"
how idiotic.
well i havnt met cindy crawford and i can tell you that she is pretty.Gambino said:
you dont have to go someplace to form the opinions i have.
hell, many americans were born in america, but are among the most ignorant people i have ever come across. your opinion on this subject, for example, makes me think the same thing...
no. goldend = says the truth that lots of people dont like to hearGambino said:
Testosterone boy
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
Don't get too big headed down under.
Did you see my thread about changing names?GoldenDelicious said:
Don't get too big headed down under.
G
Gambino
Guest
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
well fix it dear liza dear liza fix it dear Liza
goddamn that is a ignorant song, i hated as a child, and i hate it now.
Read a book on the history of Israel and tell me it doesn't hav a right to be there.
Israel is all for a Palestine state.
goldend = biased truth finder
GoldenDelicious said:
well fix it dear liza dear liza fix it dear Liza
goddamn that is a ignorant song, i hated as a child, and i hate it now.
Read a book on the history of Israel and tell me it doesn't hav a right to be there.
Israel is all for a Palestine state.
goldend = biased truth finder
G
Gambino
Guest
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
are you talking about the tidal wave?
PERFECTWORLD said:
are you talking about the tidal wave?
GoldenDelicious
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
anyway israel is totally for a palestinian state...exactly how they want it, when they want it, as they want it. west bank? occupied illegally. all the bits of palestine behind the wall? effectively annexed. illegally. sure, the israelis are all for a palestinian state...so long as they exclude those parts. oh, and the settlement areas (dont you love the word "settlement"? makes it sound like it was all built from scratch, rather than the takeover of houses owned by palestinians. former palestinian neighbourhood minus the palestinians, plus a bunch of israelis = israeli settlement. personally id use the word "outpost" but the israeli warmongers/landgrabbers dont like the imagery)
oh, and they dont want the palestinians to become a terribly educated group, which is why they keep sabotaging the education system. or to have a terribly good economy...which is why they undermine it militarily (obstruction of fields etc etc)
does anyone else get the feeling that the israelis want a palestinian state to fit perfectly into the bits of the contested territory that they dont really want that much? full of uneducated, unproductive people?
im passionate about this sort of thing. being greek by blood, i get fairly annoyed at what the turks have done to the greek cypriots on the island of cyprus, which rather closely parallels what is happening to the palestinians.
anyway, test boy mang, my head isnt getting any bigger (i think its at maximum size as it is already
you fucked up the words, dear gambino, dear gambino, you fucked up the words, gambino, of the songGambino said:
anyway israel is totally for a palestinian state...exactly how they want it, when they want it, as they want it. west bank? occupied illegally. all the bits of palestine behind the wall? effectively annexed. illegally. sure, the israelis are all for a palestinian state...so long as they exclude those parts. oh, and the settlement areas (dont you love the word "settlement"? makes it sound like it was all built from scratch, rather than the takeover of houses owned by palestinians. former palestinian neighbourhood minus the palestinians, plus a bunch of israelis = israeli settlement. personally id use the word "outpost" but the israeli warmongers/landgrabbers dont like the imagery)
oh, and they dont want the palestinians to become a terribly educated group, which is why they keep sabotaging the education system. or to have a terribly good economy...which is why they undermine it militarily (obstruction of fields etc etc)
does anyone else get the feeling that the israelis want a palestinian state to fit perfectly into the bits of the contested territory that they dont really want that much? full of uneducated, unproductive people?
im passionate about this sort of thing. being greek by blood, i get fairly annoyed at what the turks have done to the greek cypriots on the island of cyprus, which rather closely parallels what is happening to the palestinians.
anyway, test boy mang, my head isnt getting any bigger (i think its at maximum size as it is already
bluepeter
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
Sorry dude, I call bullshit on that one. Israel wants a Palestinian state? Perhaps one on Israel's terms that completely ignores and debilitates Palestinians. Maybe that's why there's still some festering animosity over there?
I think GD goes a little farther than I would if you look at his posts but he is obviously just as sick of the blatant one-sided support of Israel as I am. If he is biased, what do you call all the pro-Israelites that unconditionally support their brutal oppression of the Palestinians? Biased perhaps?
I'm a little more of a fence sitter than GD in that there are many short-sighted, ignorant people on both sides of this conflict. Both entities need to stop the adolescent game of tit for tat that has been going on for decades.
Gambino said:
Sorry dude, I call bullshit on that one. Israel wants a Palestinian state? Perhaps one on Israel's terms that completely ignores and debilitates Palestinians. Maybe that's why there's still some festering animosity over there?
I think GD goes a little farther than I would if you look at his posts but he is obviously just as sick of the blatant one-sided support of Israel as I am. If he is biased, what do you call all the pro-Israelites that unconditionally support their brutal oppression of the Palestinians? Biased perhaps?
I'm a little more of a fence sitter than GD in that there are many short-sighted, ignorant people on both sides of this conflict. Both entities need to stop the adolescent game of tit for tat that has been going on for decades.
Allon
New member
I can tell you all with complete confidence that Israel DESPERATELY wants the palesinians eduaction system to be as good as it can. Intelligence leads to moderate views and realistic actions. Plus, the more educated they are the harder it will be for their government to fuck em over, which they are doing.
I really don't think the palestinian people are so bad... Just their leaders. Who fucked up their education system? Not us. Come on, Arafat had billions of dollars put away in private bank accounts. What about the palestinian people??? Who is the one who is actually fucking them over?
Look at the facts.
Arafat, Jordan, Syria. They are using them as puppets to get at Israel.
That is the heart of the problem if anything is. Off course we play a part and some of our policies have to be changed, but to say Israel hasn't tried, or should not exist, just shows me that I am discussing this with people who have no clue.
Get it straight. Read my posts and see the fact I understand their side much more than you give me credit for.
And understand one last thing. Humane or not, Israel will do all it has to do to survive and be the superior in this neighbourhood. Don't judge that, just accept it. We have no choice.
We ARE the nice guy living in the bad neighbourhood. Beleive what you want but get your facts straight.
I really don't think the palestinian people are so bad... Just their leaders. Who fucked up their education system? Not us. Come on, Arafat had billions of dollars put away in private bank accounts. What about the palestinian people??? Who is the one who is actually fucking them over?
Look at the facts.
Arafat, Jordan, Syria. They are using them as puppets to get at Israel.
That is the heart of the problem if anything is. Off course we play a part and some of our policies have to be changed, but to say Israel hasn't tried, or should not exist, just shows me that I am discussing this with people who have no clue.
Get it straight. Read my posts and see the fact I understand their side much more than you give me credit for.
And understand one last thing. Humane or not, Israel will do all it has to do to survive and be the superior in this neighbourhood. Don't judge that, just accept it. We have no choice.
We ARE the nice guy living in the bad neighbourhood. Beleive what you want but get your facts straight.
GoldenDelicious
New member
Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
http://www.grassrootsonline.org/Palestine Now/pal_0923/education.html
http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/opt_23468.html
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...inian+school+destroyed&hl=en&client=firefox-a
israelis arent stupid people, and understand how to attack the joints of an economy as well as a society. attack the schools, and youre attacking the quality of opponent you will be facing in a decade
i see more of your victims mentality shining through your posts, by the way. "its the leaders that are bad! theyre using them to get at us! its not our fault!"
hm?
hey? who died and made you and your countrymen all powerful? i will judge what i will, and you cannot stop me. if i see something that is wrong, i will say so, and act accordingly - or do you think that the relative wealth of other jews somehow allows you to transcend basic human decency/morality?
really?Allon said:
http://www.grassrootsonline.org/Palestine Now/pal_0923/education.html
http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/opt_23468.html
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=c...inian+school+destroyed&hl=en&client=firefox-a
israelis arent stupid people, and understand how to attack the joints of an economy as well as a society. attack the schools, and youre attacking the quality of opponent you will be facing in a decade
well, the israelis are stealing their houses, their land, driving armored bulldozers through their nieghbourhoods with people still inside, attacking protestors with helicopters firing rockets...generally doing things to them taht are so terrible as to make many of them think that suicide on a bus full of israelis is a damn good idea...if i had to take a stab in the dark as to who was really, really fucking them over...id have to say...israel.Allon said:
i do. its your turn to not only look at them, but accept them for what they are.Allon said:
no, having a discussion with a person over the internet who has thought enough about the matter as to be ready to discuss the need for a physical state of israel, as opposed to it existing as a transient nation immersed within the borders of other nations, doesnt mean that youre talking to someone who has no clue. it means youre talking to someone who can think past the "palestinian have bomb, palestinian BAD!" caveman mentality that you seem to embrace, and use as the justification for the barbarity committed by your nation.Allon said:
i see more of your victims mentality shining through your posts, by the way. "its the leaders that are bad! theyre using them to get at us! its not our fault!"
hm?
remember my other post about a persons ability to perceive their own naivety? reread it. apply it to this last statement. come back and talk to me after that.Allon said:
dont judge it, just accept it?Allon said:
hey? who died and made you and your countrymen all powerful? i will judge what i will, and you cannot stop me. if i see something that is wrong, i will say so, and act accordingly - or do you think that the relative wealth of other jews somehow allows you to transcend basic human decency/morality?
yah. nice guys. with guns. crossing the border and killing people. real nice.Allon said:
Breeze
New member
AAP said:
I know this sounds pretty bad, but I don't think the Iraeli/ Palestinian conflict will be solved until somebody nukes the whole region or god himself comes down from heaven and tells everybody what he thinks they should do. I think Israel wouldn't mind living in peace but it seems like the Palestinians have "destroy Israel" etched into their DNA. Ending "Jihad" would be like taking away football and Nascar in America. I think building the wall is a good idea, I'm sure lots of people in the Southern US wouldn't mind having one on our border but at least people who cross our borders don't detonate themselves on buses and in shopping malls. If they did, we would be less tolerant about it than Israel. I would imagine that the majority of Israelis know at least one person who has been injured or killed by a Palestinian homicide bomber. I think separating the 2 sides has a much better chance of improving the situation than ending their hatred for one another, that would take generations. I really don't care what Israel or Palestine do, but I realize that if they ever had all out war, especially nuclear war, we would almost certainly be drug into WW 3 and I do care about that.
WE need to put a wall up like that one between us and mexico. That would help our asses out a lot.
About their wall, I think they have every right. Yes, it might screw some people over and that is wrong, but they should make provisions so that certain farmers or business owners can go back and forth to work
Whiskey
About their wall, I think they have every right. Yes, it might screw some people over and that is wrong, but they should make provisions so that certain farmers or business owners can go back and forth to work
Whiskey
bluepeter
New member
Breeze said:
This is what I'm talking about. Palestinians, Palestinians, Palestinians. Blatantly one-sided support for Israel.
As for your example, I'm sure you would be less tolerant of it than Israel (if that were possible) but how about we give you another one to chew over? How about if Canada suddenly moved in and took over 90% of the US and gave you curfews and basically controlled everything you did and or said. Would you be pissed? Would you start resisting a little?
OK, and when you started your little resistance/protests, how about if those nasty Canadians started shooting you? Doing daily sweeps to pick up any possible dissenters?
What would you do then? You've been oppressed to the point where you have no resources to speak of. You're completely outgunned (hypothetical example OK?
). What do you do? Just accept it?You'd hate the bastards too and you know it.
Dirk Howat
New member
beachbum777 said:
Of course.
I am not Christian or Jewish.
I do not believe Jews or Christians are choosen.
I actually think Christians are stupid bigits, many have good intentions and Jews by in large are power hungery, pieces of shit who want to rule the rule and take all your cash.
I believe the bible is b.s. as a religion.
There is no theology in the Old Testiment, just a people exterminating other people and saying they are chosen and god is smooting them.
The new testiment. There is no evidence that Jesus existed. Alot of what he said was pure b.s. Christianity is a slave religion. IMO, which Jews fabricated in order to destroy the Roman Empire, their arch enemy.
Last edited:
Dirk Howat
New member
Allon said:
They call it a Security "FENCE"
Ha, Ha.
Nice propanda spin.
How about
Iron Curtan
Palastinian Steel Ghetto Curtan
Breeze
New member
bluepeter said:This is what I'm talking about. Palestinians, Palestinians, Palestinians. Blatantly one-sided support for Israel.
As for your example, I'm sure you would be less tolerant of it than Israel (if that were possible) but how about we give you another one to chew over? How about if Canada suddenly moved in and took over 90% of the US and gave you curfews and basically controlled everything you did and or said. Would you be pissed? Would you start resisting a little?
OK, and when you started your little resistance/protests, how about if those nasty Canadians started shooting you? Doing daily sweeps to pick up any possible dissenters?
What would you do then? You've been oppressed to the point where you have no resources to speak of. You're completely outgunned (hypothetical example OK?
You'd hate the bastards too and you know it.
You have a good point, I am not pro Israel by any means. I'm just sick of the whole situation and am not optimist about anything being worked out anytime soon. As an American of Scottish descent I do not have much in common with either side, ethnically or religiously, and if it weren't for the possibility that some Islamic wacko's will get nuclear weapons I probably wouldn't be overly concerned over a situation that I have no control over. If any number of Muslim countries or groups had the means they would nuke Israel in a heartbeat. Then, as always, we would get right in the middle of it and we would have WW3, or maybe even Armagaedon on our hands. I know both sides have done some pretty vile things to one another, and I realize the Palestinians cannot win in a head on military confrontation, but randomly murdering women and children is inexcusable and cowardly. From what I've observed, it seems that if the Palestinians would stop sending exploding humans into Israel, maybe Israel would stop sending tanks and helicoptors. I've heard people who accuse the US of intentionally killing civilians in the Middle East as a way to justify 9/11, as if you can compare the Trade Center attack to one of our bombs straying off and hitting an unintented target, or killing noncombatants because one of their family members is shooting at our troops through the front door of their home. Until Fallujah, we were having soldiers killed by gunmen shooting from Mosques, because gunmen knew we wouldn't dare attack a holy place. I guess we decided that if they weren't going to respect their own mosques and use them as battle stations then they would be fair targets, now Fallujah has fewer mosques. Israel could destroy Palestine in a day if they wanted to, and we could wipe out the Middle East if we did not show constaint. I doubt if Middle Eastern countries with nukes would hesitate for one moment to use them.
Dirk Howat
New member
Allon said:
This is bullshit.
Education leads to truth and effective action. Do you think Israel wants an effective, intelligent, educated, egotistical, people?
Course, they could brain wash them in school and control their media and have them watch t.v., creating programs that deabilitate their Islamic soul.
Yeehaaw
.
G
Gambino
Guest
this is funny to me...all you peeps whinning about the mistreatment of the Palestines. "Let them be free" you cry. Yet, how come i don't see you saying the same thing about the Egyptians? Or the the N.Koreans? Or the Chinese??? Or the Iranians?????
All of them are under oppressive dictators, all of them could use your vocal support. Yet not a peep about these locked down folks. Not a fucking word. Why??? Cause the issue is not as sexy; no mean jews are there to point a fickle finger at.
Israel is a democracy surrounded by peeps who want to push them into the sea. Why those on the left are so for this is beyond me...
All of them are under oppressive dictators, all of them could use your vocal support. Yet not a peep about these locked down folks. Not a fucking word. Why??? Cause the issue is not as sexy; no mean jews are there to point a fickle finger at.
Israel is a democracy surrounded by peeps who want to push them into the sea. Why those on the left are so for this is beyond me...
lets Go get them Kemosabe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/965000/images/_969442_afp_jew_baby150.jpg
(I Dont know What that Means.)
bluepeter
New member
Gambino said:
Uh, bullshit. I have spoken against such regimes many times. The reason it doesn't get the play is because the situation isn't the same and there isn't such blind support for the oppressive side.
As for those on the left being for this, I can't speak for everyone but I am not. I've never said Israel should just get the fuck out. Both sides need to grow up and compromise. The only thing I speak on in this conflict is the constant nonsense that it is all the Palestinians. The Israeli's are also at fault in this issue and are just as brutal. Just because they do it with sophisticated weaponry doesn't mean it is OK or that it isn't a terrorist act.
bluepeter
New member
Breeze said:
I know they aren't in the Middle East but Pakistan has them. They are an Islamic country. How come they haven't nuked any Christians? How about North Korea? They aren't an Islamic state but they are surely a totalitarian regime.
As for comparing the death toll in 9/11 vs. Iraq, how many civilians were killed in 9/11 and how many have been killed in Iraq?
Dirk Howat
New member
" Egyptians? Or the the N.Koreans? Or the Chinese??? Or the Iranians????? All of them are under oppressive dictators, "
What is an opressive dictator?
Ever read Plato?
Machiavelli?
Democracry is one stage before a mobocracy which is an opressive shit ass society.
Democracy is ruled by elites brainwashing the herd. The herd follows whatever the American dictators want us to do.
Its not the form of government which matters but what it does for the people.
There have been many authoritarian states which benefited their people much more then democratic ones.
The whole democracy argument is a guise in which to destroy Arabs and gain complete hegemony in the Middle East.
Wake Up.
.
What is an opressive dictator?
Ever read Plato?
Machiavelli?
Democracry is one stage before a mobocracy which is an opressive shit ass society.
Democracy is ruled by elites brainwashing the herd. The herd follows whatever the American dictators want us to do.
Its not the form of government which matters but what it does for the people.
There have been many authoritarian states which benefited their people much more then democratic ones.
The whole democracy argument is a guise in which to destroy Arabs and gain complete hegemony in the Middle East.
Wake Up.
.
