Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its
Allon said:
GD, I really think you have serious issues with reality, or understanding humanity. THE STRONG GUY GETS TO SAY WHAT HAPPENS...
i have no such issue with reality, nor am i experiencing any difficulty in understanding the standoff between israel and palestine.
it does seem, however, that you yourself not only suffer from a severely biased view of the entire conflict (which im only going to partly blame you for, since we are all but a product of our environment), but also an alarming tendancy to jump from the issue at hand (that being, of course, the impact of the wall on the israel/palestine situation) to you arguing that the the strong shall prevail over the weak.
you see, we already know that. what we were talking about was whether or not it was right for the jews, as human beings, to be doing what they are doing to the palestinians, who are also human beings.
arent you worried by the fact that you ahve been conditioned to gloss over morality, ethics, and human decency when faces with the ugly facts of the israeli occupation of palestine, and rather than talk about the acts being perpetrated over there, and accpet that israel really is doing a terrible thing, to just skip that part of the discussion, and end the discussion by saying that the strong will prevail over the weak?
its like your brain has been hardwired to deny what is really happening over there. take a hard look at yourself, mate. how would you feel if you could hear people saying the same thing while watching the german SS slaughter weak jews 60 years ago?
you seek to evade the thrust of the entire thread; we know that the strong normally do what they want...but the fact that they can doesnt make it right, or acceptable in a civilised society.
Allon said:
America are doing it to the whole world, not that I am saying it is ok, or that I agree with it but they do. If America were to demand that Israel does something, we would probably be forced to do it and would do it. WHY? Coz we are not stupid. Duh.
well no, the root cause isnt that you arent stupid, but rather, of neccessity - that israel needs america, or rather, american aid, diverted military hardware etc etc - in order to survive. therefore, internal american politics not withstanding (much of which is influenced by american jews), israel is subject to the will of the US.
Allon said:
Now, in many cases America has kinda demanded we do things that are not in our interest and we said no, but we managed to keep them happy with us. WHY? Coz we are not stupid. And, we have our strong jewish lobby there. WHY? It is a matter of survival...
again, it isnt because you arent stupid (since many of you clearly are), in this case, america occasionally demands that israel stops doing something because what they are doing is so outrageous, so terrible, that it inflames surrounding countries to a point where it becomes a problem for america - or at least, problematic enough so as to offset whatever positive effects those american jews are exerting...or more likely, enough to overcome the supression of negativity in america exerted by those jews.
Allon said:
This is something you do not seem to understand. Or the palestinians for either... which is my point.
no, you dont really have a point. your argument disintegrated into stating that the strong do what they like to the weak (which is no argument at all) and then attempting to consolidate your facade of pure bullshit by drawing parallels with american and israeli injustices perpetrated throughout the world.
apples and oranges, mate. youre not talking to Djufo here, youre talking to me - i KNOW taht the US does terrible things, and i KNOW taht israel does similar. thats fantastic. startling. they both do similar things...but does taht make it alright? no, of course not. please try to keep to the subject at hand.
Allon said:
We are the victim in the middle east, but we are since 73 the superior victim, and when it comes to the palestinians, or actually any other arab nation, we have stopped being the victims.
wait, youre the victim, but then youre the better victime, but now, youre not a victim at all? and all the while, as per your previous post, israelis somehow still manage to have a victims mentality?
wow. God sure picked some stupid, confused motherfuckers as his chosen people. I wonder if theres a refund policy or cooling off period that God could take advantage off here, and maybe trade the jews in for a smart bunch.
Allon said:
Now stop a second and use the intelligence that you obviously do actually possess and ask yourself... How is it that against all odds Israel is in the condition it is in.
well?
Definitely not by being good sports to the palestinians. That is not a comfort we have, even though self righteous people like you demand it.
the intelligence i cetainly do possess has indicated to me that youre dancing around the same tired point - that israel is doing what it can because it can. yah. got that part. thanks.
Allon said:
I am sure you will in your annoying way break up this post into 50 thousand quotes and reply to each one in an argumentative way,
well of course, it IS an argument, you know.
and its interesting that you used the word "annoying" to describe my replies to your posts, rahter than perhaps "frustrating" or perhaps "sophistic". did you know that people who do not comprehend material they are reading often become frustrated, and use words like "annoying" for the same reason that young children with depression often behave violently?
anyway the long and short of it is that i have to take your posts apart, since i (and in all likelihood, everyone else on this board) are not equipped with the mental ability to deal with so much bullshit, all at once
Allon said:
but if you want to actually have an intelligent conversation and try to understand what an Israeli who is not a blood hungry demon like you so want to beleive we are, thinks, then answer me back in not such an aggressive, way.
i wasnt trying to understand you. i think i already do. nor do i assume that you are a "blood hungry demon" (as you assume that i think your countrymen are). nor was i being agressive. what you took for agression was, in fact, terse disgust.
Allon said:
You have proven to me so far that you do not understand anything about the situation here, it is not black and white, at all.
no, all i have shown is that you do not agree with my perception, and that you yourself have a very poor way of coping with opposing opinions, and/or ugly truths about yourself/other jews.
Allon said:
I am willing to discuss it with you if you are capable of trying to understand what it would be like to be Israeli.
i understand what it would be like to be an israeli. to impersonate an israeli, all i have to do is be myself...but supress the compassionate, decent, rational side, and act like a complete and utter cunt to a bunch of people i am trying to dispossess, all the while saying that im only being a complete and utter cunt because really, behind all my complete, utter, bullying cuntness, i am really the victim here.
Allon said:
I have tried to understand what it would be like to be a palestinian, and I think it changed a lot of how I saw things myself, but it did not make me blind either. So I am sure you can try see how it would be like to be an Israeli without being blinded, it will be harder for you there in Aussie land, than it was for me here in the heart of the situation, but at least you have nothing to lose.
in between it being 3am, me being awfully tired, and the disjointed, fubar grammar you just spewed that i hope to God isnt your thought process, im going to just ignore that slab of bullshit above
Allon said:
Anyway my point is that if you wanted to even try understand us from a humane point of view or from seeing the facts as they are, you would not be pointing the finger so hard.
ok quit with the bullshit, and quit with your insinuations that my perceptions and understanding of the situation are inadequate, or incomplete. i ALWAYS point the finger at whoever is to blame, ESPECIALLY when that person is ME. israel is in the wrong, and terribly so. i dont fucking care what would happen to the jews over there, though i still think they should get what is FAIR. (despite acting like a bunch of cunts). and fair = leave the palestinians be, stop opressing and dispossessing them, and actually conclude the issue of contested territory through negotiation and remuneration, rather than undermining palestinian society as a whole.
Allon said:
It is so obvious that the situation here is much more dynamic but also to a westerner like you it is also obvious that:Israel is a democracy surrounded by peeps who want to push them into the sea.
Imagine that?
i dont have to imagine it. i can see it.
but, from where i am sitting, i can also see WHY everyone feels that way about israel.
anyway. im tired. you should feel relieved that im tired, since if i wasnt, it would take 245 stitches, instead of a mere 203 stitches, to sew together the gaping new arsehole i just tore you
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