what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around itself?

[Allon]

Israel is a democracy surrounded by peeps who want to push them into the sea. Why those on the left are so for this is beyond me...

Amen Gambino, that is as close to the truth as you can say it IMO.

Ok, I am again not gonna bother answering Dirk, I may as well discuss politics with a 2 year old...

GD, I really think you have serious issues with reality, or understanding humanity. THE STRONG GUY GETS TO SAY WHAT HAPPENS...

America are doing it to the whole world, not that I am saying it is ok, or that I agree with it but they do. If America were to demand that Israel does something, we would probably be forced to do it and would do it. WHY? Coz we are not stupid. Duh.

Now, in many cases America has kinda demanded we do things that are not in our interest and we said no, but we managed to keep them happy with us. WHY? Coz we are not stupid. And, we have our strong jewish lobby there. WHY? It is a matter of survival...

This is something you do not seem to understand. Or the palestinians for either... which is my point.



We are the victim in the middle east, but we are since 73 the superior victim, and when it comes to the palestinians, or actually any other arab nation, we have stopped being the victims.

Now stop a second and use the intelligence that you obviously do actually possess and ask yourself... How is it that against all odds Israel is in the condition it is in.

well?

Definitely not by being good sports to the palestinians. That is not a comfort we have, even though self righteous people like you demand it.

I am sure you will in your annoying way break up this post into 50 thousand quotes and reply to each one in an argumentative way, but if you want to actually have an intelligent conversation and try to understand what an Israeli who is not a blood hungry demon like you so want to beleive we are, thinks, then answer me back in not such an aggressive, way. You have proven to me so far that you do not understand anything about the situation here, it is not black and white, at all. I am willing to discuss it with you if you are capable of trying to understand what it would be like to be Israeli.

I have tried to understand what it would be like to be a palestinian, and I think it changed a lot of how I saw things myself, but it did not make me blind either. So I am sure you can try see how it would be like to be an Israeli without being blinded, it will be harder for you there in Aussie land, than it was for me here in the heart of the situation, but at least you have nothing to lose.

Anyway my point is that if you wanted to even try understand us from a humane point of view or from seeing the facts as they are, you would not be pointing the finger so hard. It is so obvious that the situation here is much more dynamic but also to a westerner like you it is also obvious that:

Israel is a democracy surrounded by peeps who want to push them into the sea.

Imagine that?

 

[CFZB]

People need to Realize we Share the Planet.

 

[Gambino]

gd owned by someone with first hand knowledge

Allon, did you say something about the aborigines taking back Aus?
That was a good point though i'm sure gd snaked out of it with his
pusedo-intelligent ramblings.z

 

[Allon]

Yeh Gambino, I didn't bother answering him on that coz I am sure he knows himself that saying the aboriganees will get education, and then learn how to go to court and claim back their lands is a farce.

I agree with you perfect world. Lets let all mexicans into the states, once that example has been set, make another like giving them American passports. With such a great example set by Huge and strong America, I am sure Israel will follow and hand out Israeli citizenship to all the arabs in the middle east.

Seriously though... I do agree with you in the big picture. But this thread here it seems to me is not about the big philosophical picture. It is about humanity in the year 2005. Long time till we get to that borderless utopia Bro.

 

[CFZB]

Long time till we get to that borderless utopia Bro.

Well.

I quess Thats Up to Us

Isnt It?

 

[Gambino]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

People need to Realize we Share the Planet.

borders preserve cultural identity and heritage.
America is great because of it's strong borders.
A strong border preserves land for those fit and educated
enough to use it. Hence the english and government test
required to be a citizen here.

 

[CFZB]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

borders preserve cultural identity and heritage.

NOpe.

People and Education do This.

 

[Allon]

Borders are shit and the world does need to become one.

Israel is not the place to start but who knows, maybe that is what will happen here in the end.

 

[Breeze]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

borders preserve cultural identity and heritage.
America is great because of it's strong borders.
A strong border preserves land for those fit and educated
enough to use it. Hence the english and government test
required to be a citizen here.

Strong borders? Where? When? Apparently you haven't been to South Texas lately. We could control our borders if our government wanted to, but obviously they don't. We are too busy trying to run other countries to protect and preserve our own. The Roman Empire sent it's money and armies all around the world while failing to take care of problems at home and they fell. We should learn from history.

 

[CFZB]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

Strong borders? Where? When? Apparently you haven't been to South Texas lately. We could control our borders if our government wanted to, but obviously they don't. We are too busy trying to run other countries to protect and preserve our own. The Roman Empire sent it's money and armies all around the world while failing to take care of problems at home and they fell. We should learn from history.

yes.

yes We Should.

 

[Gambino]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

Strong borders? Where? When? Apparently you haven't been to South Texas lately. We could control our borders if our government wanted to, but obviously they don't. We are too busy trying to run other countries to protect and preserve our own. The Roman Empire sent it's money and armies all around the world while failing to take care of problems at home and they fell. We should learn from history.

Do you honestly think the USA is just gonna drop off? Become an abandoded wasteland?? If the USA drops off, the whole world is fucked

yes i have been to south texas lately, got searched leaving and returning to Texas from Mexico.

 

[Hengst]

map of the wall:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/P/InnerPage&cid=1098245483730

That's a bull shit map of the fence. it gives the impression that it's on the border of the west bank. Typical isreali misinformation.

 

[Tiervexx]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

historicaly it has been palestine land? i don't think so...

Than you are not thinking hard enough.

A civilization that has been dead for thousands of years hardly counts for a land claim.

 

[Tiervexx]

gd owned by someone with first hand knowledge

It is not possible to have first hand knowlege of such historyical/ethical matters. All Allon has is a bias.

 

[CFZB]

What Side Of The Bars Do You Have To be On To Be In Prison?

http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/monkey-cage-08.jpg

 

[Tiervexx]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

Strong borders? Where? When? Apparently you haven't been to South Texas lately. We could control our borders if our government wanted to, but obviously they don't. We are too busy trying to run other countries to protect and preserve our own. The Roman Empire sent it's money and armies all around the world while failing to take care of problems at home and they fell. We should learn from history.

Good post.

This is why I am only concerned with liberty in America, or what ever country I abandon it for.

 

[Hengst]

http://www.gush-shalom.org/thewall/

here is a real map of the wall/fence the israelis are building; compare it to the one Allon posted.

The Israelis plan is to put the palistinians into ghettos. If they suceed in completing the wall as planned it will leave like only 25% of the west bank for the Palistinian State and the rest usurped (some would say stolen).

Ask your self...... why doesn't the US media show American the truth of the wall?

 

[Gambino]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

. All Allon has is a bias.

yeah, his opinion is worthless. afterall, he only lives in israel

surely your opinon is 100% un-biased

 

[CFZB]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

yeah, his opinion is worthless. afterall, he only lives in israel

haha

pretty funny.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

GD, I really think you have serious issues with reality, or understanding humanity. THE STRONG GUY GETS TO SAY WHAT HAPPENS...

i have no such issue with reality, nor am i experiencing any difficulty in understanding the standoff between israel and palestine.

it does seem, however, that you yourself not only suffer from a severely biased view of the entire conflict (which im only going to partly blame you for, since we are all but a product of our environment), but also an alarming tendancy to jump from the issue at hand (that being, of course, the impact of the wall on the israel/palestine situation) to you arguing that the the strong shall prevail over the weak.

you see, we already know that. what we were talking about was whether or not it was right for the jews, as human beings, to be doing what they are doing to the palestinians, who are also human beings.

arent you worried by the fact that you ahve been conditioned to gloss over morality, ethics, and human decency when faces with the ugly facts of the israeli occupation of palestine, and rather than talk about the acts being perpetrated over there, and accpet that israel really is doing a terrible thing, to just skip that part of the discussion, and end the discussion by saying that the strong will prevail over the weak?

its like your brain has been hardwired to deny what is really happening over there. take a hard look at yourself, mate. how would you feel if you could hear people saying the same thing while watching the german SS slaughter weak jews 60 years ago?

you seek to evade the thrust of the entire thread; we know that the strong normally do what they want...but the fact that they can doesnt make it right, or acceptable in a civilised society.

America are doing it to the whole world, not that I am saying it is ok, or that I agree with it but they do. If America were to demand that Israel does something, we would probably be forced to do it and would do it. WHY? Coz we are not stupid. Duh.

well no, the root cause isnt that you arent stupid, but rather, of neccessity - that israel needs america, or rather, american aid, diverted military hardware etc etc - in order to survive. therefore, internal american politics not withstanding (much of which is influenced by american jews), israel is subject to the will of the US.

Now, in many cases America has kinda demanded we do things that are not in our interest and we said no, but we managed to keep them happy with us. WHY? Coz we are not stupid. And, we have our strong jewish lobby there. WHY? It is a matter of survival...

again, it isnt because you arent stupid (since many of you clearly are), in this case, america occasionally demands that israel stops doing something because what they are doing is so outrageous, so terrible, that it inflames surrounding countries to a point where it becomes a problem for america - or at least, problematic enough so as to offset whatever positive effects those american jews are exerting...or more likely, enough to overcome the supression of negativity in america exerted by those jews.

This is something you do not seem to understand. Or the palestinians for either... which is my point.

no, you dont really have a point. your argument disintegrated into stating that the strong do what they like to the weak (which is no argument at all) and then attempting to consolidate your facade of pure bullshit by drawing parallels with american and israeli injustices perpetrated throughout the world.

apples and oranges, mate. youre not talking to Djufo here, youre talking to me - i KNOW taht the US does terrible things, and i KNOW taht israel does similar. thats fantastic. startling. they both do similar things...but does taht make it alright? no, of course not. please try to keep to the subject at hand.

We are the victim in the middle east, but we are since 73 the superior victim, and when it comes to the palestinians, or actually any other arab nation, we have stopped being the victims.

wait, youre the victim, but then youre the better victime, but now, youre not a victim at all? and all the while, as per your previous post, israelis somehow still manage to have a victims mentality?

wow. God sure picked some stupid, confused motherfuckers as his chosen people. I wonder if theres a refund policy or cooling off period that God could take advantage off here, and maybe trade the jews in for a smart bunch.

Now stop a second and use the intelligence that you obviously do actually possess and ask yourself... How is it that against all odds Israel is in the condition it is in.

well?

Definitely not by being good sports to the palestinians. That is not a comfort we have, even though self righteous people like you demand it.

the intelligence i cetainly do possess has indicated to me that youre dancing around the same tired point - that israel is doing what it can because it can. yah. got that part. thanks.

I am sure you will in your annoying way break up this post into 50 thousand quotes and reply to each one in an argumentative way,

well of course, it IS an argument, you know.

and its interesting that you used the word "annoying" to describe my replies to your posts, rahter than perhaps "frustrating" or perhaps "sophistic". did you know that people who do not comprehend material they are reading often become frustrated, and use words like "annoying" for the same reason that young children with depression often behave violently?

anyway the long and short of it is that i have to take your posts apart, since i (and in all likelihood, everyone else on this board) are not equipped with the mental ability to deal with so much bullshit, all at once

but if you want to actually have an intelligent conversation and try to understand what an Israeli who is not a blood hungry demon like you so want to beleive we are, thinks, then answer me back in not such an aggressive, way.

i wasnt trying to understand you. i think i already do. nor do i assume that you are a "blood hungry demon" (as you assume that i think your countrymen are). nor was i being agressive. what you took for agression was, in fact, terse disgust.

You have proven to me so far that you do not understand anything about the situation here, it is not black and white, at all.

no, all i have shown is that you do not agree with my perception, and that you yourself have a very poor way of coping with opposing opinions, and/or ugly truths about yourself/other jews.

I am willing to discuss it with you if you are capable of trying to understand what it would be like to be Israeli.

i understand what it would be like to be an israeli. to impersonate an israeli, all i have to do is be myself...but supress the compassionate, decent, rational side, and act like a complete and utter cunt to a bunch of people i am trying to dispossess, all the while saying that im only being a complete and utter cunt because really, behind all my complete, utter, bullying cuntness, i am really the victim here.

I have tried to understand what it would be like to be a palestinian, and I think it changed a lot of how I saw things myself, but it did not make me blind either. So I am sure you can try see how it would be like to be an Israeli without being blinded, it will be harder for you there in Aussie land, than it was for me here in the heart of the situation, but at least you have nothing to lose.

in between it being 3am, me being awfully tired, and the disjointed, fubar grammar you just spewed that i hope to God isnt your thought process, im going to just ignore that slab of bullshit above

Anyway my point is that if you wanted to even try understand us from a humane point of view or from seeing the facts as they are, you would not be pointing the finger so hard.

ok quit with the bullshit, and quit with your insinuations that my perceptions and understanding of the situation are inadequate, or incomplete. i ALWAYS point the finger at whoever is to blame, ESPECIALLY when that person is ME. israel is in the wrong, and terribly so. i dont fucking care what would happen to the jews over there, though i still think they should get what is FAIR. (despite acting like a bunch of cunts). and fair = leave the palestinians be, stop opressing and dispossessing them, and actually conclude the issue of contested territory through negotiation and remuneration, rather than undermining palestinian society as a whole.

It is so obvious that the situation here is much more dynamic but also to a westerner like you it is also obvious that:Israel is a democracy surrounded by peeps who want to push them into the sea.

Imagine that?

i dont have to imagine it. i can see it.

but, from where i am sitting, i can also see WHY everyone feels that way about israel.

anyway. im tired. you should feel relieved that im tired, since if i wasnt, it would take 245 stitches, instead of a mere 203 stitches, to sew together the gaping new arsehole i just tore you

cu

 

[Gambino]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

wow. God sure picked some stupid, confused motherfuckers as his chosen people. I wonder if theres a refund policy or cooling off period that God could take advantage off here, and maybe trade the jews in for a smart bunch.


i understand what it would be like to be an israeli. to impersonate an israeli, all i have to do is be myself...but supress the compassionate, decent, rational side, and act like a complete and utter cunt to a bunch of people i am trying to dispossess, all the while saying that im only being a complete and utter cunt because really, behind all my complete, utter, bullying cuntness, i am really the victim here.


cu

GD surely seems unbiased

dumbass, i think you exposed you true colors for all to see.
save your long winded responses, we've heard it all before

go join hamas, they are looking for a few good men

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

GD surely seems unbiased

dumbass, i think you exposed you true colors for all to see.
save your long winded responses, we've heard it all before

go join hamas, they are looking for a few good men

this is probably going to ruin the effect, but maybe if you bashed your pointy head on the ground to make all your neurons fire at once, maybe, just maybe, in that one second before a cerebral bleed killed you, you would understand that playing on stereotypes in a defensive person usually pisses them off

 

[75th]

Allon was just owned big time by GD and Hengst.

Gambino, you should read up on what Hamas actually does for the Palestinian folks, and what they are striving for.

It may surprise you.

 

[rsnoble-im-back]

Keep the shit in and dont let it out??

 

[Gambino]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

Allon was just owned big time by GD and Hengst.

Gambino, you should read up on what Hamas actually does for the Palestinian folks, and what they are striving for.

It may surprise you.

I'm aware of what they do, they aid the give, education, etc. They have filled the void the palestine government created. Similiar to the IRA in many respects and a natural occurence when central gov't is nill. I was suggesting to GD to join up because of their shared opinion that Israel should "get the fuck out" of palestine. Like the IRA created the Sinn Fein political wing, hopefully Hamas can make the transtion to politics

 

[Allon]

Ok guys, this is getting out of hand.

Hengst, you are wrong about the positioning of the wall, it does cut through the west bank, but it is more like 15-20% of the west bank, not 75%.

GD, I tried to talk with you and got an argument. I wonder how much peace a country filled with people like you would have...

This is not about ripping someones asshole wider to me, it is about having a conversation. Your point of views do interest me, just not the way you put them forward, and not when obviously you do not try to understand what I mean.

 

[CFZB]

 

[Hengst]

Ok guys, this is getting out of hand.

Hengst, you are wrong about the positioning of the wall, it does cut through the west bank, but it is more like 15-20% of the west bank, not 75%.

It's doing more than innocently cutting through the West Bank. You (Isreali's) are creating Ghettos very much like the ones you (Jews) were forced to live in.

One would think that of all the people in the world to abhor and 'Never Again' allow something like this to happen it would be you (Israeli Jews). If you do not like the Ghetto comparison then Apartied South Africa is another good model for your countries behavior.

 

[Allon]

It's doing more than innocently cutting through the West Bank. You (Isreali's) are creating Ghettos very much like the ones you (Jews) were forced to live in.

One would think that of all the people in the world to abhor and 'Never Again' allow something like this to happen it would be you (Israeli Jews). If you do not like the Ghetto comparison then Apartied South Africa is another good model for your countries behavior.

I know that it can look that way. I myself see it this way also, but it is not so clear cut. Israel is not so racist as it is nationalist.
It is a security thing, more than a race thing.
The results and current situation are disgusting, beleive me, we are not blind to this. But I do not think the finger can be pointed soley at us.

Unfortunaltely, all Jewish people in Israel know that we will die if we lose our upper hand here. Hence the paranoia and self justification and the "mindset".

I really wish the palestinians weren't going through all this, but for any country in the area to say it is because of Israel is childish. It means to us that either they (other countries in area or any country individual for that matter) are not seeing what is so clear, and that is Israel's point of view and instinct of survival, or that they are using the palestinians to cause issues as they know we will never give them right of return or more than 75-90% of the west bank. Which in my opinion even 100% of the west bank is not suitable amount of land for a proper country.

 

[ceo]

tear it down!

 

[BrothaBill]

This is thread is pointless, its a 2000 year old blood feud. It'll never end...the wall just protects israelis from terrorists. Its up to the palestian people to rid their culture/society of this cancer. Set up an effective govt then when they are not such a failed state and govern effectively then tear down the wall. The wall is just a simple solution to a complex issue.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

GD, I tried to talk with you and got an argument. I wonder how much peace a country filled with people like you would have...

This is not about ripping someones asshole wider to me, it is about having a conversation. Your point of views do interest me, just not the way you put them forward, and not when obviously you do not try to understand what I mean.

a whole country full of people like me? damn. i couldnt put up with that sort of competition out on the nightclub scene. dont mention that again.

although you seem to imply that my argumentative nature would mean a country full of people like me wouldnt be peaceful - on the contrary, it would be very much so. an america full of people like me would mean that the iraq war wouldnt have happened, that bush wouldnt have been reeleceted - hell, taht there would have been a decent candidate in the first place - and that israeli support just wouldnt be happening. my position on the need for the state of israel is clear - theres no real need for it. if the jews are such clever, money making little mofos, let them nicely make money where tehy are and not stir up shit half the world over.

i get the feeling, though, that the reason you think that i "do not try to understand" you stems from your inability to perceive that i have good insight into your character, and furthermore, that the phrase "try to understand me", when said by people such as yourself, is really a prelude to repetition of previous sentiments with the purpose of trying to brainwash the listener.

I did try to understand you. i think i DO understand you. i DO understand your point of view as a moderate in your country. i DO understand the position israel finds itself in...i just think that israel as a country is in the wrong; that its leaders have pursued inhumane, brutal, and unfair policies against the palestinians; that many israelis are suffering from the mistakes of their leadership - mistakes which, amongst other things - have brought down the middle easts ire upon the israeli public...and deservedly so.

a piece of advice for you - if you are want to discuss controversial issues in public, do not be so offended when people not only dont tolerate you, but dont buy into your bullshit.

if you want things to change get off your arse and pressure your government to start acting like human beings. until you can say that you ahve actively and outspokenly opposed what your country has done, dont expect me to sit here mute while you spit biased crap at me.

 

[Allon]

Whatever GD, you are the big judge.

If you are talking about the leadership then I agree with you, no-one in Israel likes the leadership.

However the palestinian leadership is ok? hmmm. I think they have more human rights issues to solve within their own leadership then we do.

You are so biased and one sided here. I continually agree with you about certain facts pertaining to Israels issues and you do not agree once that the palestinians have issues and could do something to. As far as you are concrened, it would seem they are all angels.

You like to argue, that's fine.

 

[BrothaBill]

Dang, now thats a rant. One thing is for certain, Israel is there to stay regardless of US policy towards it. They have an incredible military and if anyone is going to invade Iran its going to be the Israelis whether we like it or not. Only thing thats going to damage Israel is a nuke, thats why this whole iran nuke weapons program better be handled soon.

 

[Allon]

Israel will not let it happen in my opinion. (Iran Nukes)

 

[BrothaBill]

Israel will not let it happen in my opinion. (Iran Nukes)

No way, In fact, I was watching Don Imus this morning chatting with Dick Cheney and was questioned about us invading Iran cuz of that recent story. He was like we'll take to the security council, sanctions,etc... He was like the big concern is whether Israel was going to take action on its own and let the world pick up the pieces. Israel is SUCH a wildcard.

 

[Hengst]

I know that it can look that way. I myself see it this way also, but it is not so clear cut. Israel is not so racist as it is nationalist.
It is a security thing, more than a race thing.
The results and current situation are disgusting, beleive me, we are not blind to this. But I do not think the finger can be pointed soley at us.

Unfortunaltely, all Jewish people in Israel know that we will die if we lose our upper hand here. Hence the paranoia and self justification and the "mindset".

I really wish the palestinians weren't going through all this, but for any country in the area to say it is because of Israel is childish. It means to us that either they (other countries in area or any country individual for that matter) are not seeing what is so clear, and that is Israel's point of view and instinct of survival, or that they are using the palestinians to cause issues as they know we will never give them right of return or more than 75-90% of the west bank. Which in my opinion even 100% of the west bank is not suitable amount of land for a proper country.

So, basically, you advocate the seperation of the israelis and the palestinians for security reasons. E.g. it is not safe for israelis to live amidst the palestinians, therefore it is necessary to create walls, fences and restrictions on the movements of the palestinians for the continued survival and safety of the israelis, their society and culture.

I agree, BUT, if it is valid for you then would you say that any group of people in a threatening situation should have the same rights of seperation? What if this minority group were white, european decendant christians?

 

[Allon]

So, basically, you advocate the seperation of the israelis and the palestinians for security reasons. E.g. it is not safe for israelis to live amidst the palestinians, therefore it is necessary to create walls, fences and restrictions on the movements of the palestinians for the continued survival and safety of the israelis, their society and culture.

I agree, BUT, if it is valid for you then would you say that any group of people in a threatening situation should have the same rights of seperation? What if this minority group were white, european decendant christians?

Why would you think I have a problem with white christians?

If such a group had to secure itself I would have no problem with it.

I do on the other hand COMPLETELY understand and respect that people would be suspicious of Israel in this situation. I am just giving my 2 cents on the way I see the issue, and my explanation (from living here) on how we see it and why I think the way things are the way they are.
You could say I am justifying Israel in a way, but I am not trying to justify any wrongdoings at all. I am however trying to put forward exactly what the wrongdoings are and are not.

Israels faults:
Trigger happy soldiers
Non peacefull Israeli's who do not even try to see the palestinians side of it. Coz these Israeli's are ignorant IMHO
Certain policies of army and government, like they hit us, we hit back, really stupid.
Building the WALL through palestinians land without compensating them at least, or just not doing it.
SETTLERS, let me shoot em myself!

Palestines faults:
Advocating your own society to commit suicide attacks.
Not ever pointing the finger at Jordan, egypt or the palestinian leadership.
The total lack of free speech.
The Palestinian leadership are not using funds they have for their own people.
The Palestinian leadership do not let palestinians leave and immigrate to other countries when those countries offer. For example Canada offered to take in a few thousand palestinians a few years ago and Arafat refused.


The list goes on for both sides, but you get the idea.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

Whatever GD, you are the big judge.

only below the waist

your comment is telling, though - youre dismissive, and sarcastic, which imo is juvenile

If you are talking about the leadership then I agree with you, no-one in Israel likes the leadership.

sooooooo...who voted for them? and who shrugs their shoulders when they do waht they do in palestine?

However the palestinian leadership is ok? hmmm. I think they have more human rights issues to solve within their own leadership then we do.

irrelevant. the failings of the palestinians do not excuse israeli behavious, especially when so much points to the israelis being the agressor

You are so biased and one sided here. I continually agree with you about certain facts pertaining to Israels issues and you do not agree once that the palestinians have issues and could do something to. As far as you are concrened, it would seem they are all angels.

actually, i didnt say too much about the palestinians, but i do not think that they are angels - but i think that they are being reactive, while israel is instigative, which means everything when it coumes to assigning blame

You like to argue, that's fine.

yeah, i kinda do

 

[Allon]

GD, I agree with you on so many points which you fail to see, but I really don't enjoy talking with you. I keep answering you though, I must be stupid.

 

[Moderate_THIS]

-----This spot reserved for future commentary-----

 

[Allon]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

Ok, I am going to do one of your Quote thingies.

I am really hoping that we will meet a middle ground at one point, me and you GD.

only below the waist

your comment is telling, though - youre dismissive, and sarcastic, which imo is juvenile

sooooooo...who voted for them? and who shrugs their shoulders when they do waht they do in palestine?

Who voted for them? The same fucking Idiots that I said earlier make up over half of this country, just like in practically any society, most people in my opinion are fucking stupid and ignorant. I have constantly been saying to your UTTER disregard, that I am just giving my 2 cents as to why all this is the way it is, NOT justifying anything. REALITY is that most countries are full of fucking idiots, THUS the fucked up state of humatiy.

The Palestinians IMHO should think about this and realize that Israelis are not gonna be nice to them under any circumstances, unless they get stronger than us or start talking terms that are acceptable to us. IT IS REALITY, NOT MY OPINION .

Israeli's that voted SHARON are the scm of the earth, just like americans that voted BUSH IMHO, and I am one ISRAELI that is not glad that BUSH invaded Iraq or Afghanastine. I am disgusted.

irrelevant. the failings of the palestinians do not excuse israeli behavious, especially when so much points to the israelis being the agressor

At last you make one comment that does not say the Palestinians are so absolutely pure.
Israel on the other hand in my opinion is not the aggressor, but our way of dealing with the situation is very often aggresive. Sometimes this is the only way, sometimes it is inexcusable (I beleive you will ignore I said this negative thing about Israel and find something positive I said to tear up in your answer )
To say we are THE aggresor is just wrong, it is so much more complicated than that, Yuh, the settlers are fucking aggressive, and today I have no excuse for them, I wish I could burn em, but regarding the original settlers in the west bank, you should understand that after THE WHOLE ARAB WORLD attacked Israel and Israel won and overtook land, Israel felt that the land won was not only now rightfully ours, but also a great security to the rest of the land. Thus the settlers who settled there originally were mostly militant god beleiving radicals. Not every country has the cosy past of Australia. Tday a lot could be changed and done, but to say we are the aggressor or that the palestinians are the aggressor is childish. Politics and reality in most confrontations is so much more complicated and dynamic than that, but you could not know that living in Australia, you should live here and learn it from experience. CONFRONTATION IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE. This is something that I see more and more Israeli's understanding (off course not the majority of the nation which like any other country is fairly ignorant and narrow minded) however I do not hear about that many palestinians understanding this. However, I do not hear much from palestinians ever, I beleive that the voices of most plaestinian people is not ever heard due to their culture. How many arabs on this board? I barely ever hear an arabs point of view apart from politicians, and that is a fucking shame.

actually, i didnt say too much about the palestinians, but i do not think that they are angels - but i think that they are being reactive, while israel is instigative, which means everything when it coumes to assigning blame

yeah, i kinda do

Assigning blame and Israel being instigitave is basically the same thing you said in the last quote I just answered.

Let me tell you a story about Arab Israeli relations.

In Israel there are many Arabs. We work together and get along. Our cultures differ but those Arabs in the cities are just the same as us. Yes there is a culture gap, and a lot of racism everywhere, but in day to day life it is not how you would imagine. It is a social issue, yet when Jews and Arabs buy from each others shops or walk past each other on the strees, we get along very well. I am not talking about the west bank and GAZA.

Israeli's Love going to Sinai. That is in Egypt.
Apart from being the only border us Israeli's can cross by foot or car instead of plane or boat to get out of our country, it is a small paradise in Sinai with great diving.

We get on very well with the Beduin there, they tell us and I tend to beleive them, that they preferred life when Sinai was in Israels control and not under Egypt. Now I know that we are tourists there and their livlyhood, but in any case I think their great spirit and intentions towards us are real.
I have been in Sinai myself about 10 times in my life.
I have made many friends there including beduins and regular Egyptians.
Many of the people I met there are not nessacerily people who thrive from Israelis being there financially.
I met young Egyptian guys who are spending there 20's learning to dive and just enjoying the laid back life in Sinai after CAIRO, Egyptians who were there when I was there on holiday, on holiday themselves, hell, I even smoked a joint on the beach there with two policemen from Cairo who were on holiday... etc....
Not one ARAB EGYPTIAN I met there had the kind of opinion about Israel that you do GD. Why? Because they know us, and they know how it is like to be living in this part of the world.
Many students I met said that they hate ARAFAT (this was obviously before his death) and that they WISH Egypt would be democratic and free like Israel.
Regarding the conflict they seem to understand Israels point of view as well as the palestinians.

Most the (arab) people I met in Sinai are amazing, polite and truly gentle people. We Israeli's could learn from them a thing or two.

My point is that I got on with most people I met there and it made me understand that the CONFLICT is political and not between the people. When the people are part of it, it is always instigated by a minority from EITHER side. We take TURNS.

Ok man GD, I will quit my story here, I hope (kinda doubt though) that you get the point.

G'day mate...

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

I'd say it's better than them killing each other.

 

[Allon]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/21/mideast/index.html

Basically Mahmoud Abbas is saying to the Hamas that in order to make sure Israel gets out of Gaza ever or quickly, it would be a good idea to stop terror attacks and launching rockets into Israel from Gaza. This is pretty wise in my opinion and something Arafat never seemed to care about. It is also my point in most of what I have said in this thread when I was talking negatively about the Palestinians.
Abbas seems to understand that Israel have no desire whatsoever to be in GAZA and we are only there because of the attacks.

Israel understands that if the palestinians get a good life, our lives will also be good.

The palestinian peoples suffering will end sooner and their quality of life will improve sooner if the HAMAS stops attacking Israel, the attacks which are causing the Israeli population to put PRESSURE on the government to retaliate.
If attacks stop, Israel will withdraw, palestinians will be able to start building their lives again and hopefully eventually Israel will come to a compromise with them which hopefully will involve giving them as much land as possible as well as permits to work in Israel for a big percentage of them.
If things work out, we will start doing business with each other and we will all prosper.
Maybe one day we will start fucking each other and have kids together, then things will get much better.

The key right now is for both sides to start understanding each others point of view.

The Israeli press are talking alot about Mahmoud Abbas and he definitely seems to be doing all he can to stop the violence, on the one hand saying what Israel wants to hear and on the other hand saying what the Hamas want to hear, which must be very tricky for him to b doing.

I think Mahmoud Abbas might be a good guy. I am getting positive vibes and his eyes look pretty pure, unlike ARAFAT'S eyes or SHARON's.

Lets watch and find out.

 

[BrothaBill]

Agreed to some points of Allon, the best choice for the palestinians is to end terror and negotiate peaceful solutions to end the conflict. Their course of violence against the overwhelming stronger state of Israel is just a vent of raw emotion and is counterproductive. They have no chance of winning a conflict with Israel...


PALESTINIANS FINALLY RUN OUT OF ROCKS
WEST BANK — Palestinian stone throwers disclosed for the first time Friday, that due to a gross miscalculation of their arsenal, they had finally run out of rocks and would be forced to come up with more inventive ways of continuing their Intifada on the Jewish state of Israel.


“I reached down to grab a rock this morning and all I got was a handful of sand,” said one Palestinian militant who asked to remain anonymous. “I tried throwing it but it just blew back in my face. Man, It really stung my eyes!”


Militant groups were quick to cast blame for the depletion of their arsenal on a group of teenage “stone hogs” who exhausted the supply by throwing indiscriminately at passing cars, various neighborhood bullies and the occasional stray dog.


Others accused a local housewife of wasting the rocks by building “a cute little gravel path” leading up to a backyard bird feeder.


“The important thing is we find an another resource as quickly as possible, said Palestinian militant leader, Achmed Ashanni. “Meanwhile, we’re alternating between spitting on the Israelis and throwing feces at them. We really need to find some alternatives quick."


Leaders of two radical groups, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, not wanting show signs of military unreadiness, decided to immediately unleash a precious cargo of snack-sized, tapioca pudding containers stolen from an Israeli middle school cafeteria.


According to reports, the pudding has great hangtime and can be thrown almost as far as rocks. Plus, it’s really impressive when it explodes all over enemy clothing.

I do have to admit, It really kills me to throw the tapioca Snack Packs," Ashanni said. "Those goddamn Jews really know their pudding.”


Above: Palestinians have resorted to throwing their own feces

heehee, like this so much but my thread with this went away too quickly.(



BOBFROMACCOUNTING.COM

 

[H_T_]

this is awesome, it's like watching a couple of chinese guys play ping pong.

 

[Allon]

this is awesome, it's like watching a couple of chinese guys play ping pong.

 

[BrothaBill]

this is awesome, it's like watching a couple of chinese guys play ping pong.

Can chinamen actually pronounce the consonant sound we associate with the letter P? Seriously and if not what would it sound like?

 

[Tiervexx]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

yeah, his opinion is worthless. afterall, he only lives in israel

surely your opinon is 100% un-biased

Yes, my opinion is totally un-biased because I have no affiliation with either side, and therefore do not benefit either way. The same can not be said about Allon, who is clearly part of one side.

This is why they don't select judges or juries that have personal relationships with the defendants or accusers.


If this concept is beyond you than you need to return to elementary school.

 

[Allon]

Re: what is your opinion of the fence/wall/barrier that Isreal is building around its

Yes, my opinion is totally un-biased because I have no affiliation with either side, and therefore do not benefit either way. The same can not be said about Allon, who is clearly part of one side.

This is why they don't select judges or juries that have personal relationships with the defendants or accusers.


If this concept is beyond you than you need to return to elementary school.

uhmmm, maybe you need to go back to school and learn how to read. Gambino did not say I was unbiased, he was saying to GD that my point of view is not worthless, and was implying that GD seems to be biased, which he is.

 

[BrothaBill]

Allon since you live in Israel, what do you think of the chance of Israel acting unilaterally attacking Iran b/c of its nuclear ambitions? Whats the sense of what the Sharon govt. might do from the inside, any chance. Weve been sorta talking about it on the board latelyu on who might, if anyone do, something like that, course were half a world away and on the outside looking in.

 

[Allon]

I am no expert on that but as I said before, I am pretty sure that is something Israel will not let happen.
I think right now we are counting on the US and whoever to do something about it, if it fails, Israel will probably just find a way to make the reactor dissapear (airstrike or missilestrike) I do not think a war will start, it will be an attack and Iran will not be able to do anything about it if we succeede. They may try send missiles or something but we can beat them at that. They would not send airforce coz they would stand no chance.

I really think that the US will probably sort this out instead though, they seem to be pretty firm about not wanting Iran to have nukes.

Then again who knows, maybe they will build them and thats it...

On the other hand, I do know that Iran is very near a big change, I have heard many people (from Iran) say that it is a matter of 10-30 years until it becomes a modern democracy.

BTW, if I sound arrogant about Israels military abilities on this then sorry, but this is what Israel is built on: The military superiority over our neighbours, anything less and we are good as dead.

 

[BrothaBill]

I am no expert on that but as I said before, I am pretty sure that is something Israel will not let happen.
I think right now we are counting on the US and whoever to do something about it, if it fails, Israel will probably just find a way to make the reactor dissapear (airstrike or missilestrike) I do not think a war will start, it will be an attack and Iran will not be able to do anything about it if we succeede. They may try send missiles or something but we can beat them at that. They would not send airforce coz they would stand no chance.

I really think that the US will probably sort this out instead though, they seem to be pretty firm about not wanting Iran to have nukes.

Then again who knows, maybe they will build them and thats it...

On the other hand, I do know that Iran is very near a big change, I have heard many people (from Iran) say that it is a matter of 10-30 years until it becomes a modern democracy.

BTW, if I sound arrogant about Israels military abilities on this then sorry, but this is what Israel is built on: The military superiority over our neighbours, anything less and we are good as dead.

No if anyone thinks youre arrogant when talking plainly about Israels strength in comparison to others in the region, they be just plain idiots, nuff said.

Interesting, seems a bit up in the air as to what will happen. Europeans are trying to deal with em right now, but they seem to always negotiate from a position of weakness. hmmm we shall just have to wait and see.

I sure hope it doesnt take that long for democracy in Iran.

 

[Allon]

Yeh Europeans do seem to do that. However on the other hand the US always come over as too aggressive, there must be a middle ground somewhere... I liked Clinton's way to do things usually, personally.

I read an article last week that Iran have upped their airforce surveilance and they are on the lookout for an attack by Israel more than ever.

If it comes it will probably be swift and without warning. I don't think our government have any illusions that threatening Iran to not build nukes will help. If they decide the time has come they will strike without any warning whatsoever.

 

[BrothaBill]

Yeh Europeans do seem to do that. However on the other hand the US always come over as too aggressive, there must be a middle ground somewhere... I liked Clinton's way to do things usually, personally.

I read an article last week that Iran have upped their airforce surveilance and they are on the lookout for an attack by Israel more than ever.

If it comes it will probably be swift and without warning. I don't think our government have any illusions that threatening Iran to not build nukes will help. If they decide the time has come they will strike without any warning whatsoever.

Wasnt always a big Clinton fan, but I respected his abilities, some things he was masterful at and I dont think there's politician that can do what he did coming anytime soon.
Yeah, I believe w/o a doubt that Iran has upped their defensive alert status. And goes without saying that will it be swift and no warning. Yeah and they arent going to respond to threats I believe as well.
Middle ground, sorta the "walk softly and carry a big stick." approach. Hopefully the europeans can fill the void with the US and Israel playing the hammer role. Hope it doesnt come to that though, I think that would be a bad thing.

 

[Allon]

I doubt Iran will stop building the nukes, I may be wrong obviously but I just doubt it.

I think it will come to either military action or the world will just not do anything and Iran will become a nuclear power.

I think I only really started seeing the beauty of clinton once he was gone LOL. I always thought it was amazing that until the last day he had in office he continued to try and make peace between Israel and the palestinians. It was like a major goal of his and he seemed to be doing it out of strong beleif and goodwill. (apart from wanting to be remembered for it)

 

[BrothaBill]

I doubt Iran will stop building the nukes, I may be wrong obviously but I just doubt it.

I think it will come to either military action or the world will just not do anything and Iran will become a nuclear power.

I think I only really started seeing the beauty of clinton once he was gone LOL. I always thought it was amazing that until the last day he had in office he continued to try and make peace between Israel and the palestinians. It was like a major goal of his and he seemed to be doing it out of strong beleif and goodwill. (apart from wanting to be remembered for it)

Yeah, I agree I respect Clinton more now that he's gone, Bush just doesnt seem articulate enough to lead our nation at times at times and Im not bushbasher either, alot of things I agree with.
Im an independant,but I like the hardline of the foreign policy at times. In retrospect, if we knew what we know now about Iraq, the war Id have to admit was a mistake. At the time prior, I thought it was the right decision at the time and now I can admit that given the info we now know, that I was wrong. It may still be the right course, the media reports make it seem like the sky is falling over there, but I dont think its that bad and it may improve rapidly and a few years we'll look and think Bush was a genius for the war who knows, youd have to have a crystal ball. Afterall, any war you can find horrible things happening, thats just part of war. But in comparison with others wars of the century, it could hardly be classified as EVEN a major battle in terms of casualties. As I stated before to someone that had no ability to put things into perspective. In WW1, The battle of Verdunne, one battle, 700,000 soldiers were killed. IN WW2, the estimated amount of soldiers and civilians killed as a result, was about 50 million. So in terms of scale, this is not very big. Just gonna have some tough times and transition periods, we arent losing the war by any means.

Im pretty much neutral on alot of these issues, but I sure wish some of the people who argue with you had the intellect and ability to place themselves into other peoples shoes for a moment and ask themselves what they would do? How they would think? etc... Like what if they were born an raised in Israel. I look at what happens in Israel with the attacks and I cant help but think that I would react even stronger if that happened in my neighborhood. I think alot of Americans lack the ability to see the world except from the safety of a separate, stable continent.
As far as some of the others, its like they never had a class in history, have no knowledge 20th century history and what has occurred up to this point and have only the ability to form their opinion from when they first watched television and thought about the world and now. A very short time in historical terms to guage the situation. I think my generation and younger lack the ability to see long term and to think in large spaces of time.
And even other still, who for some reason, dont accept the right of Israel to exist. I guess thatd be fine if they actually knew why they thought that way. I mean I guess is just lack of thinking through all facets of a situation. THey think if Israel wasnt there, problem would be solved that simple, failing to realize what a complex issue it is. I dont see how you could even stand to argue with someone who cant think in complex abstract terms to deal with world and global issues such as this. I mean I just dont know how you do it. I cant even read this whole thread. I dont know the answer to the israeli palestinian issue. But I sure as hell know that some of the mental midgets on the board who say the stupidest things dont either.
Why do you even bother arguing with him?
Youre not going to be able to change their mind, itd takes years to do that. They seem to lack all sense of perspective.

 

[Allon]

Hey man, thats a great post, you definitely seem to understand that every story has 3 or more sides and are able to look at things both from your point of view while seeing the other sides. Good discussion without arguments is so rare on these boards...

Regarding answering certain people, some I don't answer but when it comes to GD I really think he sounds like a liberal and Idealist and that is something I really respect. I am pretty sure he is highly intelligent (apart from being argumentative) I just think that if anyone was brainwashed it was him or should I say (as he can also see this) You - GD by Australian press. There is a strong anti Israel propaganda all over the world, the US is one of the only countries that is pro Israel.

I felt that maybe at one point we could actually understand each other and communicate normally here. I have benefited for sure from some of your posts GD, and I am always happy to scrutinize my mindset and views, but I also think you could gain by opening your mind to the reality of the situation being discussed instead of trying to find someone to point that finger at.

Anyway, if I see someone is a dumb kid I definitely prefer not to answer them but GD is definitely not that. He tries to rip me apart yes, but so far it has not lost control so I am still (at this point) enjoying the debate.

 

[BrothaBill]

Hey man, thats a great post, you definitely seem to understand that every story has 3 or more sides and are able to look at things both from your point of view while seeing the other sides. Good discussion without arguments is so rare on these boards...

Regarding answering certain people, some I don't answer but when it comes to GD I really think he sounds like a liberal and Idealist and that is something I really respect. I am pretty sure he is highly intelligent (apart from being argumentative) I just think that if anyone was brainwashed it was him or should I say (as he can also see this) You - GD by Australian press. There is a strong anti Israel propaganda all over the world, the US is one of the only countries that is pro Israel.

I felt that maybe at one point we could actually understand each other and communicate normally here. I have benefited for sure from some of your posts GD, and I am always happy to scrutinize my mindset and views, but I also think you could gain by opening your mind to the reality of the situation being discussed instead of trying to find someone to point that finger at.

Anyway, if I see someone is a dumb kid I definitely prefer not to answer them but GD is definitely not that. He tries to rip me apart yes, but so far it has not lost control so I am still (at this point) enjoying the debate.

Thanks, Ive studied the world and its issues for a long time, sorta my hobby if I was to have, sorta a political junkie.Watch all the debates listen to all sides then try and then form an opinion. I admit that I rarely have the intellect even with all that to form a solution, just educated views and I enjoy discussing different points of view and I often change positions if someone can explain how they arrived at their position in articulate logical ways. Its positive thing and I enjoy it.
Ive found alot of people post naive points of view here on this board with the total inability to help me understand how they arrived at their conclusion. I post on these political threads sometimes, but usually throw my hands in there and say why bother. This isnt going to help me understand or learn a thing and they lack the ability to conceive my points of view, they just lack the background of events and how one situation may affect another. Its said that a great chess player can think in terms of twenty moves ahead, same with politics only some can only think in terms of one or two here. Im not here to rip on these guys either, I think some of these guys on here are very smart, just in the beginning phase of learning what is going on in the world. I was there once afterall, and how wrong some my arguments were LOL! Others, it just makes feel sorry for them.
I find more stimulating discussions with others off the board with have had similar interests in world politics and have had viewed these issues for a long time, alot of patients that I see and work with are older, they have a long perspective of the world so maybe Im spoiled.

 

[Allon]

You know what brothabill, I take it back, I just reread one GD's posts and realized I missed it beofre when he said

"my position on the need for the state of israel is clear - theres no real need for it. if the jews are such clever, money making little mofos, let them nicely make money where tehy are and not stir up shit half the world over."

GD, if you were a idealist you would never say something like that. You are obviously racist and more biased than I thought. I wish you had said that to my face. I dare you to walk up to a Jew and say something like that, I would never say something like that to anyone, no matter what race.

You gotta be joking to think you can walk up to an Israeli, even here on a message board and say something like that and expect for him or anyone else to take you seriously.
Take a hike.

If you had said it to my face you would not be walking anywhere. Now fuck off.

 

[BrothaBill]

You know what brothabill, I take it back, I just reread one GD's posts and realized I missed it beofre when he said

"my position on the need for the state of israel is clear - theres no real need for it. if the jews are such clever, money making little mofos, let them nicely make money where tehy are and not stir up shit half the world over."

You know what GD, if you were a idealist you would never say something like that. You are obviously racist and more biased than I thought. I wish you had said that to my face. I dare you to walk up to a Jew and say something like that, I would never say something like that to anyone, no matter what race. You fucking NAZI.

Yeah, I saw that post too I think yesterday, needless to say my first thoughts were more of shock that someone could be that stupid. Views from people like that are so pathetic. I mean thats beyond simple, that goes to the character of an individual, or lack thereof. A person capable of saying something like that has not been socialized properly and no amount of discussion will help that. Im optimistic about the ability of people to change, but its rare in the case of someone that would argue like that. Sorta what I meant by why would you even bother, obviously not worth the time at all. You just have to let a person like that go and live there life as a moron. Most of the stupid people who post ridiculous statements have far more character than he obviously does. Just pathetic! That was one of the posts I read on this thread that I just said forget it, why bother, no need to read anymore. It actually hurt my head to read some that stuff. I think I was afraid that if I actually understand how they arrived at their position I would be worse off rather than gaining knowledge and perspective. Y'know thats why I originally asked your opinion of the IRan situation. To gain knowledge of someone in different situation with fresh perspective. Theres no way in hell I could know how the an israeli saw that situation sitting here in the states. Im better off and gained another piece of the puzzle to formulate my opinions. Thank you.
Like I said it becomes a frustrating experience rather than a constructive learning experience as it should be.

 

[Allon]

Yeh I agree man... whats the point... I feel violated just for thinking I even replied to him LOL ok, I am exaggerating but I realize what a fucking waste of time.

Thanks for the comments man, I tottally see things the way you just explained, I love hearing the thoughts and views of people from their perspective when I am coming from somewhere so different.

I was in Serbia this summer and it was so interesting. So many intelligent people there and the country which is really fucked right now was once really prospering when it was yugoslavia. I was buzzing the whole time I was there coz it was so interesting. I gotta go to Bosnia and see what they have to say, it is obviously a completely different view.... YUM.

 

[BrothaBill]

Yeh I agree man... whats the point... I feel violated just for thinking I even replied to him LOL ok, I am exaggerating but I realize what a fucking waste of time.

Thanks for the comments man, I tottally see things the way you just explained, I love hearing the thoughts and views of people from their perspective when I am coming from somewhere so different.

I was in Serbia this summer and it was so interesting. So many intelligent people there and the country which is really fucked right now was once really prospering when it was yugoslavia. I was buzzing the whole time I was there coz it was so interesting. I gotta go to Bosnia and see what they have to say, it is obviously a completely different view.... YUM.

Y'know its funny that you picked that quote off the board. Thats the exact statement that made me stop reading the thread yesterday, I was going to start at the back of this thread to see if it was worth it to go back to the beginning and read the whole thing. I literally was like this is just too dumb to continue reading. Thats it Im out
If you go back and reread my posts from the beginning you'll see its that exact quote that I was writing about when discussing why bother. LOL! Thats just too funny.
Yeah I find it fascinating to talk to new immigrants to this country, I have met good people from russia, ukraine, bosnia, serbia, obviously all the asian countries and its always amazing listening to their view of the world having come from such a different place and how they views change of the states as well. Just a great opportunity to learn and grow and gain more perspective. I would love to have the opportunity to go to the former yugoslavian area to see it. Its just amazing some of the atrocities committed there when the separations took place. Lifelong neighbors fighting each others, snipers killing people that they lived with peacefully. One cannot imagine being in that situation. So many places I want to visit.

 

[Allon]

that funny man, when you made that comment I was like, ok some people were making stupid comments but it just caught me that you may have seen something more serious and I skimmed over the last 20 or so posts and than I noticed that.

Regarding Yugoslavia, I cannot explain how interesting it was, how sad it would be for someone like GD to go there, he would have to find one side to side with like a soccer game.. boring and stupid...
Man you gotta be dumb going there and not realizing that no one was right, it was one big mess, just like Israel... but yet so different. It boggled my mind, but when I started seeing the bigger picture and understanding what people were talking about, apart from the fact that Serbia was such a cool place and the people so interesting, I will never forget it.
Go for it if you get the chance and FYI it is so cheap there you will be in shock.

 

[BrothaBill]

Yknow Allon, I think alot of people who posted on this thread should take notes on how to conduct themselves in an appropriate constructive way as to how our posts have just went. I know virtually none of your positions as Ive read lil of your posts, except what I might assume they would be that your an Israeli. And you know virtually none of my personal views on issues, except that Im not an insane moron like whoever posted that quote about israeli mofos. But already we formed a base of effective communication where we can learn an express our views without arguing in a shrill tone and acting ignorantly. HELL I might disagree with virtually everything you think, but I can tell that you are articulate and intelligent enough, that even if I disagreed with you on your views, I would learn from the experience and discussion. I would become more intelligent b/c I have more information to draw my views from. I really wish that others on this board could learn how to communicate like this. Too often I just see someone post some asinine statement that I just shake my head at. When questioned as to why they think that way they become hostile and defensive and effective communication becomes even harder. Learning can only take place by understanding anothers point of view and communication is essential to that. Of course I love learning, some others may not share that life goal of understanding the world around them. Too bad for them.

 

[Allon]

Man, that is so true, for all I know you could be completely for everything I am against... but what does it matter? Actually it would make things more interesting as long as we didn't start calling eachother names... LOL
I think some people need to learn what the words DEBATE, DISCUSSION, CONVERSATION... mean.

The British culture I have noticed are really good at not agreeing with each other on touchy subjects and yet still having a stimulating conversation. I was always shocked how politicians in Israel always ague with each other and in the UK you see them smiling and talking calmly about the most senstive subjects in total disagreement.

I think that apart from the weight trainging forum here on EF (which is amazing) and joke threads here, whenever I have participated in a thread regarding peoples point of views here it has turned into a shouting match... I myself may have been to blame also at times... but really it is so easier to shout at someone than (which is so much more profitable) to try and understand why they think the way they do.

 

[BrothaBill]

I loved to go, its not about being cheap but that never hurts. Its a matter of time. My next trip is to London to visit a bud who also posts on this board, then head on over to Ireland as my whole family is from there and I have citizenship there, Id like to go right now, but honestly with my career and all I probably can get the time off needed to justify the trip til fall. At some point Im going to visit Israel as well to see the historical and religious sites there as well. Hope you get that terrorism thing under control by the time I manage to make it there. Dont want to get blown up picking up a slice of pizza at Sbarro's pizza. KNow what I mean LOL! I"ll give you a coupla years to nip the whole palestinian thing in the bud and make it safe for Brothabill to travel there!!! EIther that or just move the whole state of Israel out of the region so theres mideast peace there. That should be pretty simple as I hear people argue that position on the board here. Few million people, gotta be pretty simple, right? We could put GD in charge of logistics he can figure out how to move a whole fucking country LOL!!

 

[CFZB]

Hey...

Can I hang out with You Guys?

I mean Thats Cool or Whatever.

 

[H_T_]

what?!?!? no namecalling?!?!?

 

[Allon]

Yeh man, lets move Israel out to the outback, or even just a small part of queensland would suit me, I just hope the Aussie rednecks won't think I am a native and shoot me...

BTW, It is very safe here. you are more likely to be mugged or shot in America than to be in a terror atack here. The most dangerous thing in Israel is the roads, percentage wise like 30 times more people die here a year by car accidents than by terror, so as long as you walk while you are here you should be ok... REALLY. I would be much more worried walking around any city in the US then walking around tel aviv.

 

[H_T_]

Hey...

Can I hang out with You Guys?

I mean Thats Cool or Whatever.

i guess........

 

[BrothaBill]

Man, that is so true, for all I know you could be completely for everything I am against... but what does it matter? Actually it would make things more interesting as long as we didn't start calling eachother names... LOL
I think some people need to learn what the words DEBATE, DISCUSSION, CONVERSATION... mean.

The British culture I have noticed are really good at not agreeing with each other on touchy subjects and yet still having a stimulating conversation. I was always shocked how politicians in Israel always ague with each other and in the UK you see them smiling and talking calmly about the most senstive subjects in total disagreement.

I think that apart from the weight trainging forum here on EF (which is amazing) and joke threads here, whenever I have participated in a thread regarding peoples point of views here it has turned into a shouting match... I myself may have been to blame also at times... but really it is so easier to shout at someone than (which is so much more profitable) to try and understand why they think the way they do.

Exactly, some of my most interesting conversation have been with people that have completely different views than I, but since we both were able to communicate our points of view it became a give and take and prolly changed the way we viewed things. I mean afterall, who wants to talk to only people who agree with everything you think. I mean what good is that?

Ive been on this board for a long time under different names as I lose my password after not logging on for awhile or other stuff, not paying for my platinum membership renewal, lost my last handle that way. And I recently came back. Ive met some really good people on this CC board and would consider them friends even though Ive never met them. Id be upset if they were going through rough times. I just came back to this board last week after being off it from end of last spring and I was very happy to see alot of the cool people still here. You really have to wade through the morons on this board to find the precious gems that are here. Sorta like panning for gold. Now, I rarely let anyone rattle me, I try to explain my position and by the time I get pissed me enough to yell at them I usually just move on, just not worth it. The few times I have said rude things to people, I go back and edit it out as if I never said it. Afterall, I dont want other people to see me act like that, I could care less about the person that led me to the point, but the others who might read it. Id prefer people to have an impression of my posts as positive and well thought out.

 

[Allon]

what?!?!? no namecalling?!?!?

LIsten dipshit, me and bruthabill are busy agreeing with each other here. It is a civilized conversation and you cannot fathom what that means to me at this point. Now Fuck off and come back when we call you.

Ok?

 

[BrothaBill]

what?!?!? no namecalling?!?!?

No just commiserating as to how stupid people can be at times on this board. GEEZUS, HT do you ever sleep its got to be like 5:30 where youre at. Sorta just talking about the GD comment for awhile.

 

[Allon]

Seriously, I am in shock, I forgot how pleasant conversation can be.

Between Grand Dickhead and Dirk Howat I was having fun, but it was not pleasant at all...

I am wondering who is worse. GD or DH... hmmmm.

 

[CFZB]

i guess........

heehee....

 

[H_T_]

No just commiserating as to how stupid people can be at times on this board. GEEZUS, HT do you ever sleep its got to be like 5:30 where youre at. Sorta just talking about the GD comment for awhile.

it is, long day, today, caught a nap this evening and i'm all screwed up hours wise. glad it's the weekend.

 

[BrothaBill]

Yeh man, lets move Israel out to the outback, or even just a small part of queensland would suit me, I just hope the Aussie rednecks won't think I am a native and shoot me...

BTW, It is very safe here. you are more likely to be mugged or shot in America than to be in a terror atack here. The most dangerous thing in Israel is the roads, percentage wise like 30 times more people die here a year by car accidents than by terror, so as long as you walk while you are here you should be ok... REALLY. I would be much more worried walking around any city in the US then walking around tel aviv.

Yeah I know its safe, just having a lil fun y'know, giving you a couple of years to solve a 2000 year old blood feud. I swear thats how fast people think the situation can be solved. But I read your post about Mahmoud Abbas, and I agree from what I see he just may be what the situation needs. Ive heard him say some take a tough position or two, but you have to be like that or theyd shoot him. Hopefully they can get some of the corruption out of there palestinian authority and get the money into the peoples hands who need it rather than line the pockets of a few crooks. I mean how much did Arafat squirrel away, billions of dollars earmarked for the people.
Do you live in Tel aviv?
Yeah where would one move and entire fucking country, where oh where could you folks go? I wish GD was here to enlighten us. LOL!

 

[Allon]

Yeh Abbas may be the real thing. I realized a long time ago that there is no "Solution" here. however moderate thinking will help evolve things to something that right now is not acceptable, by that time the solution will become automatic.

Or we could just move... as there is no "need" for the state of Israel. Yuh, thats a solution.

Yep, I live in Tel Aviv, but have lived all over Israel, and in the UK for a couple of years, and SA and travelled all over.

 

[BrothaBill]

LIsten dipshit, me and bruthabill are busy agreeing with each other here. It is a civilized conversation and you cannot fathom what that means to me at this point. Now Fuck off and come back when we call you.

Ok?

hahahahaha! Hey leave HT alone LOL! Havent chatted politics, but a funny bastard on other threads where I have LOL!! Kept this board alive the last few nights.
NO more yellin Lol!! I even like Pw too, even when he is a lil smartass! LOL! Other times he cracks me up.

 

[BrothaBill]

it is, long day, today, caught a nap this evening and i'm all screwed up hours wise. glad it's the weekend.

God thats exactly the same situation Im in, I started this diet, totally screwed up sleeping, stayed up the whole last weekend. I sleep immediately after work, shorter usually, then come back on the board. This is like the afternoon to me now that my sleep pattern is so screwed.

ITs the weekend, holy shit what day is it, I thought it was friday!

 

[H_T_]

it's miserable out here, i swear the sun hasn't shined in weeks, i feel like it's one long night.

 

[Allon]

Thats why I couldn't handle London, the winter made me so depressed...

I dunno about you guys but I never sleep regular hours... I think most people on these boards, despite being bodybuilders, have sleep issues... well, at least the regulars...

 

[CFZB]

Thats why I couldn't handle London, the winter made me so depressed...

I dunno about you guys but I never sleep regular hours... I think most people on these boards, despite being bodybuilders, have sleep issues... well, at least the regulars...

I do When Im On.

Im ON.

 

[Allon]

I wonder what AAP thinks about this thread. He opened it probably thinking it would die within 20 posts max.

 

[Allon]

Its like, I live on this thread as well as the dirk Howat thread. Why visit a million thread when two are enough???

 

[BrothaBill]

Yeh Abbas may be the real thing. I realized a long time ago that there is no "Solution" here. however moderate thinking will help evolve things to something that right now is not acceptable, by that time the solution will become automatic.

Or we could just move... as there is no "need" for the state of Israel. Yuh, thats a solution.

Yep, I live in Tel Aviv, but have lived all over Israel, and in the UK for a couple of years, and SA and travelled all over.

Havent had the pleasure of reading those two you mentioned, maybe when I feel like reading something to make me feel good about myself b/c Im not them, I will.
SA? Do I have a mental block or something, wheres that at. Oh Saudi Arabia, just came to me.
Abbas gives me a lil hope, just got a figure out a way to end the violence of the militant groups, no easy task. I hope he doesnt get shot, moderates in that part of the world seem to have a target painted on them.
Yeah, hopefully things will evolve to a point to where there is something to work off of em. The palestinians were doing pretty good before this recent intifada, werent they. Investments and aid going in there and Sharon made his trip and nothing but down hill since.
You a student, or do you have a career or something there?

 

[BrothaBill]

it's miserable out here, i swear the sun hasn't shined in weeks, i feel like it's one long night.

Im in Portland Or right now, it was sunny and in the fifties today, good winter lots of sunny days, but this place is known for the rain, years past its gone over 100days without a sunny day in the winter.
one long night like in Alaska LOL!

 

[Allon]

SA is South Afirca. I am sure you are kidding with me about saudi arabia.
Things were sweet until this intifada. It was like a bubble that suddenly burst...
Nope, not a student, work for a company.. internet etc....

Watabout you?

 

[BrothaBill]

Thats why I couldn't handle London, the winter made me so depressed...

I dunno about you guys but I never sleep regular hours... I think most people on these boards, despite being bodybuilders, have sleep issues... well, at least the regulars...

Yeah, I was thinking that myself about sleep problems, I always wonder what time it is where theyre posting from and what time it is there? What time is it over in Israel?

Yeah winter is depressing where Im at, good winter so far with sun, but usually months of gloom.
Seattle wa is where I live most of the time, same thing lots of rain and gloom during these months

 

[Allon]

it's 1:20 PM, going home in half an hour (At work right now)

 

[BrothaBill]

SA is South Afirca. I am sure you are kidding with me about saudi arabia.
Things were sweet until this intifada. It was like a bubble that suddenly burst...
Nope, not a student, work for a company.. internet etc....

Watabout you?

I work in Cardiology, not a doctor but I work hand in hand with them. Doing tests on the heart, opening arteries when people are having a heart attack, just about everything a doctor does only they guide the procedures, except when examine the heart with ultrasound, In clinic I see about a patient an hour, easiest job in the world in the clinic. Hospital coverage is stressful and I can get called in any time of the night.

Yeah, that intifada thing, it was like whooaa! Things just lit up seemed like. Not living there, it wasnt covered as much as it is now, so all of sudden our perspective just by the news reports told us that something was up over there

Yeah, I was kidding about SA. LOL!

 

[BrothaBill]

it's 1:20 PM, going home in half an hour (At work right now)

Thats funny! Its 3:20am here, LOL!! Been chatting with my body in London around 5am every morning the last coupla nights online for awhile before he gets off work. You guys are leaving for work when were just getting ready!
Im going to get a cup of coffee, get ready for the day LOL!

 

[Meantime1]

Thats funny! Its 3:20am here, LOL!! Been chatting with my body in London around 5am every morning the last coupla nights online for awhile before he gets off work. You guys are leaving for work when were just getting ready!
Im going to get a cup of coffee, get ready for the day LOL!

Morning Bill

 

[BrothaBill]

Yeah, you never know a thread will take off!! You get ready to leave work, prolly should wrap this conversation up here.
Well man Im glad I clicked on this thread again, Im surprised I did, I just want to put that fake news story about the palestinians running out of rocks. I made a thread with that for PW with that story but it didnt last very long. This thread seems to hanging around a long time.
ANyhow Ill have to chat with you soon, Ill keep an eye out for ya! Maybe start a destroy israel thread, see if I can trick you to come on it lOL!
Thanks!!

 

[Allon]

I gotta have another coffee, and then drive home and go to sleep.... wake up this evening... maybe get laid... its been a while.

 

[BrothaBill]

Morning Bill

Afternoon! hahaha! I was a lil surprised to see you on this thread and I was just posting about you being over in London too funny, hows it going?

 

[Meantime1]

Afternoon! hahaha! I was a lil surprised to see you on this thread and I was just posting about you being over in London too funny, hows it going?

i am ok
just got up
how u, i see u have been busy on line,
u just starting your day
guess what the party i am going to, the clothes desigers D&G ARE GOING TO BE THERE

 

[BrothaBill]

I gotta have another coffee, and then drive home and go to sleep.... wake up this evening... maybe get laid... its been a while.

Same sleep pattern as meet lately! Not getting laid though! Been awhile on this end but thats by choice gf breakup awhile back just not into that for awhile. Hilarious while youre getting ready to leave my bud in London just came on this thread! Allon meet meantime lol!

 

[Allon]

Yeah, you never know a thread will take off!! You get ready to leave work, prolly should wrap this conversation up here.
Well man Im glad I clicked on this thread again, Im surprised I did, I just want to put that fake news story about the palestinians running out of rocks. I made a thread with that for PW with that story but it didnt last very long. This thread seems to hanging around a long time.
ANyhow Ill have to chat with you soon, Ill keep an eye out for ya! Maybe start a destroy israel thread, see if I can trick you to come on it lOL!
Thanks!!

LOL HAHA, man, it goes without saying that it was a pleasure speaking to you. Will catch you around. L8R.