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What ARE CHIROPRACTORS??

Kakdiesel

Banned
We Chiropractors work with the subtle substance of the soul. We release the prisoned impulse, the tiny rivulet of force, that emanates from the mind and flows over the nerves to the cells, and stirs them into life. We deal the the magical power that transforms common food into living, loving, thining clay; that robes the earth with beauty and hues and scents the flowers with the glory of the air.

In the dim, dark distant long ago, when the sun first bowed to the morning star, this power spoke and there was life; it quickened the slime of the sea and dust of the earth and drove the cell to union with its fellows in countless living forms. Through eons of time it finned the fish and winged the bird, and fanged the beast. Endlessly it worked, evolving its form until it produced the crowing glory of them all. With tireless energy it blows the bubble of each individual life and then silently, relentlessly dissoves the form, and absorbs the spirit into itself again.

And yet you ask, "Can chiropractic cure appedicitis of the flu?" Have you more faith in a knife or a spoonful of medicine than in the power that animates the living world?

---B.J. Palmer, D.C., son of founder of chiropract, D.D. Palmer
 
A few blocks from my house is a guy who runs a Chiropractor and Tree Trimming service.
 
Damn...then not too far from him..is a another Chiropractor and Shoe Repair Service.

I am not kidding.
 
WODIN said:
A few blocks from my house is a guy who runs a Chiropractor and Tree Trimming service.

LOL

excellent timing there :lmao:
 
needleboy said:
Personally if I'm having a heart attack, I want CPR, not an adjustment!!

Chiropractic is prevention not treatment so to speak...

and gues what? every organ in your body is connected by nerves to the Central Nervous system which includes the spinal cord and brain.

if you have a vetebral sublixation, that nerve is getting pinched...and the nerve impulses are not sending the correct messages to your organs (regulated by your CNS)...

Think of it this way. It seems logical.

In your garden, you have one end of the hose connected to the water spout (your brain) which sends water (nerve messages) to your plants (your organs)..now if you step on the hose, what happens? The water comes out less or not at all..The plants seem fine for a while because they can live (your organs CAN function) for a small while and you may not know youre "sick" Well after a while, the plant begins to die, or become "sick", so does it make sense to give it more fertilizer? or cut off its dead leaves? Thats what medicine and surgery is most of the time.

Doesnt it make sense to just relieve your foot off of the hose and let the water flow? Instead of wasting money on useless fertilizer (medicine) or cutting of "parts" of the plant to try to save it??

Seems logical to me.
 
They are wierd folks who think that cracking bones and readjusting bones can cure a muscle imbalance, I actually was accepted to TCC (Texas Chiropractic College) but once I realized what I was getting into, I did not want to do that anymore. It's almost like a hoax.
It's like a temporary fix, cuz if a muscle is causing the bone to be in bad posture then adjusting the actually bone will do nothing but fix it momentarily, but by creating pull by muscles can fix posture permanitly.
 
Can I get you to cut back a tree that is covering part of my house?
 
needleboy said:
Personally if I'm having a heart attack, I want CPR, not an adjustment!!

Dr. Paul Sherwood in his book "The Heart Revolution"

"The key to heart attacks brought on by spasm lies in the spinal column."


I just think society has a lack of faith in the human body. We as a species alone have evolved over thousands of years without medicine or surgery. We are the MOST successful species on the planet.

Don't you think that our genetic make up is smart enough to keep us healthy and fight off most disease? What regulates our body's health when we ARENT "sick"? And havent' you ever had a cold or flu and NOT taken anything and your body fights off the disease all by itself?

Consider the irony of this: You have a cold. your body raises its body temperature giving you a fever to be able to FIGHT the virus..and in a way "cook" it as well...

So you feel like shit because of the fever. But you want to get "better," so what do you do? Take a pill to reduce fever!!! WHEN THE FEVER IS PART OF THE MECHANISM TO HEAL YOURSELF!!
 
Now that I think about though, I should of dished out the money and went, cuz those mofos make tons of loot. And then at the end of the day they get cut trees, what a life!
 
Peyote Killa said:
They are wierd folks who think that cracking bones and readjusting bones can cure a muscle imbalance, I actually was accepted to TCC (Texas Chiropractic College) but once I realized what I was getting into, I did not want to do that anymore. It's almost like a hoax.
It's like a temporary fix, cuz if a muscle is causing the bone to be in bad posture then adjusting the actually bone will do nothing but fix it momentarily, but by creating pull by muscles can fix posture permanitly.

So you're telling me that muscle is stronger than bone? I can understand how back muscles might be able to interfer with the alignment of the spine, but that is because of a genetic disorder where maybe your IVD (intervetebral discs) are damaged, or not fully developed.

But dont tell me your biceps or triceps can misalign your humerus to your scapula.
 
Kakdiesel said:


So you're telling me that muscle is stronger than bone? I can understand how back muscles might be able to interfer with the alignment of the spine, but that is because of a genetic disorder where maybe your IVD (intervetebral discs) are damaged, or not fully developed.

But dont tell me your biceps or triceps can misalign your humerus to your scapula.

Did you come on here today to flaunt your new college boy words and try to impress us?
 
Kak

There is a chiropractor that is overbilling medical insurers here. You go in to his office and he x-rays you and then tells you need to see him x amount of visits. After that first examination and x-rays, he bills the insurance company for the amount of visits he told you to visit him. He charges it to the insurance company whether or not you come back in for that many visits. That's just wrong! I always thought it was payment when services are rendered. He is going to get caught ne these of these days.
 
No, I was just playing around, I have great respect for those people, I didn't go to that school just cuz it was too much money and I could not afford it. I was just fucking around, chill out.

But I do believe that you need balence in all things as well as the human body, so the two (bone and muscle) have a symbiance, they compliment each other in everything, one is not more important than the other.

But one is more holistic than the other, I would have to say that the chiropracter practices almost a holistic fix, which definatly works. At the same time the body needss constant tension by stimulation of muscles.

Just my opinion, but the first post was a joke, like I said, I have a great deal of respect for you guys. Shit I wanted to be one!
 
I think chiropractors have their place but i just don;t trust the ones with offices at the mall and stuff.
 
frorider6 said:


Did you come on here today to flaunt your new college boy words and try to impress us?

No frorider, just thought it'd be an intersting topic of discussion since this is a "chat board"...and yes, chiropractic is a big part of my life now..just wanted to if not educate, at least explain and discuss the stereotypes and myths about it.

Excuse me for not talking about pussy, porn, and cocksucking or "how to get a girl" etc...or a story about me and 4 chicks havent a fivesome! or about some racial shit. Or how liberals and conservatives dont get along..blah blah blah.\
i thought maybe some interstin topic would stimulate discussion onthis board, which it has apparently..thats all

im not speaking in a condencending way Frorider, so I apologize if you take it that way.

:fro:
 
HumorMe said:
Kak

There is a chiropractor that is overbilling medical insurers here. You go in to his office and he x-rays you and then tells you need to see him x amount of visits. After that first examination and x-rays, he bills the insurance company for the amount of visits he told you to visit him. He charges it to the insurance company whether or not you come back in for that many visits. That's just wrong! I always thought it was payment when services are rendered. He is going to get caught ne these of these days.

I wont defend that HumorMe.. cuz you're right..there are dirty chiropractors just like there are dirty medical doctors, dirty lawyers, dirty politicans, dirty cops, dirty everything...but one is not enough to make the whole profession terrible..that wouldnt be fair.

I have never heard of someone NOT going to see a medical doctor but because there was an MD in Oklahoma who cut off the wrong leg on a patient..
 
Peyote Killa said:
No, I was just playing around, I have great respect for those people, I didn't go to that school just cuz it was too much money and I could not afford it. I was just fucking around, chill out.

But I do believe that you need balence in all things as well as the human body, so the two (bone and muscle) have a symbiance, they compliment each other in everything, one is not more important than the other.

But one is more holistic than the other, I would have to say that the chiropracter practices almost a holistic fix, which definatly works. At the same time the body needss constant tension by stimulation of muscles.

Just my opinion, but the first post was a joke, like I said, I have a great deal of respect for you guys. Shit I wanted to be one!

Cool...but here's what I think is cool about chiropractors. We dont really consider ourselves doctors. We're just the gatekeepers who unlock the body's doctor to heal itself.
 
release the prisoned impulse, the tiny rivulet of force, that emanates from the mind and flows over the nerves to the cells, and stirs them into life.

Sounds like a Girl I once dated...
 
Kakdiesel said:


I wont defend that HumorMe.. cuz you're right..there are dirty chiropractors just like there are dirty medical doctors, dirty lawyers, dirty politicans, dirty cops, dirty everything...but one is not enough to make the whole profession terrible..that wouldnt be fair.

I have never heard of someone NOT going to see a medical doctor but because there was an MD in Oklahoma who cut off the wrong leg on a patient..



There are scums in all professions for sure! The bad part of the mess here is that somehow that fucker is related to my wife's side of the family....not a close relative but nonetheless related. People go to chiropractors and start to feel better after a couple of visits, they don't go back for the following visits. Like I said, he will get caught one these days and I am going to laugh my ass off.
 
Thats respectable Kak, and physical thearipists kind of view themselfes in the same manner, just instead of bone they deal with muscle. Like I said the two form relationship where in order to survive they need each other, so in all, a strong knowledge of either one will do wonders for the body. And to know both inside out, then you are definatly way ahead of the game.
 
ducky.jpg
 
Peyote Killer...I hear ya man..thanks...

But please, everybody, remember this:

Chiropractors do feel the need for medical doctors. We have tried to form a relationship with them for years.

I will not try to tell everybody if you are in a car wreck and your intestines are hanging out, that I'm gonna adjust you and you'll feel better..GO TO THE ER!!!

All chiropractic is, is prevention, and allowing the human body to help itself first..and if your own body cannot help itself for some reason (due to genetic mutation or because of the seriousness of the injury) then go see a medical doctor...and see what he can do..and if he cant do anything, fuck it, get some drugs and get high...LOL

But I think people (and millions of people worldwide already do) should go see a chiropractor first. Let your own body heal itself.

The problem these days is that people do not realize or understand that drug companies (pharmaceuticals) do not care if you are cured or not. They want you to come back for more! And somebody please tell me the last time you went to see a doctor and HE was the one who actually helped you. What happened? the Nurse does all the "work" and he just hops in after 4 hours of waiting after your supposed apointment schedule and says ok, heres a script, go the pharmacy and spend the rest of your money that you may have left since my bill for seeing you for 5 mins is gonna cost you...

sad
 
How about shrubs and bushes?

Any trimming on them?

I've never seen anyone have a shingle out over their business that said.

Nursing and Shoe Repair.
 
supersizeme said:

Supersizeme, i'm disappointed in ya man..i figured if you did not agree with chiropractic (which is understandable) that you could come up with a decent intelligent debate...

The quack thing is rather old....

Cmon man, I know you can do better than that!

sucka.
 
WODIN said:
How about shrubs and bushes?

Any trimming on them?

I've never seen anyone have a shingle out over their business that said.

Nursing and Shoe Repair.

Tsk, tsk, Wodin, I guess in your old ass age, you can't even trim your own shrubs and trees and bushes..

man just admit it, your a fuckin fossil who can't even do your own yard work..ya fuckin puss LOL j/k:D
 
i'm kidding, Kak...i couldn't resist. i have never been to a chiropractor in my life but with all the squats and DLs i do, i'm sure i'll be visiting one at some point in time. two very close friends of mine are in osteopathy school here in TX and they regularly pop me and bend me around in weird positions when i'm feeling jacked up and it always helps out. if i'm ever in Hotlanta and need in of readjustment i'll stop by and say HOOK A NIGGA UP!
 
Kakdiesel said:


Tsk, tsk, Wodin, I guess in your old ass age, you can't even trim your own shrubs and trees and bushes..

man just admit it, your a fuckin fossil who can't even do your own yard work..ya fuckin puss LOL j/k:D


Kak I am not joking...there are two chiropractors in my town and one does shoe repair the other tree triming.
 
Ok OK, more analogies...

Consider this. Chiropractic is a religion just like medicine is.

Think of it this way. Chiropractic is christianity and medicine is like Islam (heheh)...

Chiropractic has different demoninations within it called techniques (Gonstead technique, upper cervical technique, thompson, SOT, Full spine, etc.) with each having different beliefs in chiropractic but its all the same MAIN focus: the CNS and health.

But compare chiropractic and medicine as the two religions: they both have the same belief in ONE GOD. Meaning both professions do want the same thing: to make the patient healthy. We just go about it from opposite ways...thats all..like I said, I respect Medical Doctors, their intelligence, they're determination, etc...and there is a definite place for them.
 
WODIN said:



Kak I am not joking...there are two chiropractors in my town and one does shoe repair the other tree triming.

Greeeeeeeennnnnnnn Acccccrrrrrrrreeeeeeessssss, is the place to be.....FFFFFFFAAAAARRRRRMMMMMMM liiiiiiivvvvvviiiiingggg..........
 
Well what is the SECT of Chiro that has a machine that rolls elyptically up your spine and makes it go into alignment all at once. Also, I want one of those machines, I'd divorce my wife and just nut on that thing every night!!!!
 
Supersizeme: I was kidding too..I feel ya bro..i'll hook ya up no problem...and i'll take ya out to da dirty dirty in Buckhead and we'll get foe-nky....

Wodin: Im not kiddin either..I believe you. But I guess I understand why they do it. ITs because the general public would rather throw thousands of dollars away (which by the way your insurance companies LOVE those huge bills so they can make money off of you too) to a medical doctor, rather than pay 50-80 dollars for a visit to the chiropractor...

therefore, financially speaking, i'm sure they're just trying to make ends meet.
 
This is a battle that cannot be won, just like you related it to religion.

But c'mon guys give Kak his props, he just said that the main goal, which should be everybodies concern, is to make his patient healthy. In all, there is a need fore both, and depending on what kinda of person you are of course one might overshadow the other, but that should not induce the other one to nothing.
 
The Machine! Dammit!!! What's it called? It's been like 7 years since I saw one. LOL!!! I've been to chiros before. Also I'm into acupuncture but that's more for fun!
 
WODIN said:
Well what is the SECT of Chiro that has a machine that rolls elyptically up your spine and makes it go into alignment all at once. Also, I want one of those machines, I'd divorce my wife and just nut on that thing every night!!!!

ahh..actually I've heard of that technique..its more technology based which I'm not into..I forget the name of it though..I'll have to get back to you on that one..remember, i'm only just barely getting my feet wet here in school..

But I DO know how much they cost...your talking about about 5 grand plus...
 
Kakdiesel said:


ahh..actually I've heard of that technique..its more technology based which I'm not into..I forget the name of it though..I'll have to get back to you on that one..remember, i'm only just barely getting my feet wet here in school..

But I DO know how much they cost...your talking about about 5 grand plus...

Cheaper than getting married. You can trust me on that.
 
Peyote Killa said:
This is a battle that cannot be won, just like you related it to religion.

But c'mon guys give Kak his props, he just said that the main goal, which should be everybodies concern, is to make his patient healthy. In all, there is a need fore both, and depending on what kinda of person you are of course one might overshadow the other, but that should not induce the other one to nothing.

Thank you.. At least somebody here gets what I'm tryin to say. I'm not saying MD's suck or whatever..BUT I DO think that they should be considered second..meaning, you people who are "sick" or "injured" should consider helping yourself out before shelling out ridiculous amounts of money to someone who really doesnt DO anything for you except write you a script for something that will do nothing but cure your signs or symptoms of disease or injury..where as chiropractic is treating the root of the problem.

Think of GM..America's largest car manufacturer..This is an anaology Chris Rock did in one of his stand up routines that makes a lot of sense.

Dont you think GM could make a cadillac that lasted 30 years with no problem? I mean we have the technology to send people into outer space, dont you think they could acquire a small fraction of that technology to make you a car that lasted a long time? OF COURSE!! BUT THEY DONT WANT TO? They make cars that last about 8 years on the average before shit starts to break down or fall off so that you can come back and buy another car!!! SO why dont they want to? Theres no money in that. Just like there's no money in CURING people. If you CURE people, why would they come back or continue a multiple month (or life long) long prescription of drugs? There's no money in that! Think of the last time they cured something..POLIO?? What do doctors have for people who have a cold? NO CURE. Just something to cover it up so you dont "feel bad" for the time being..

Like I said though, in a few years, you come to me with an organ coming out of your ass, I aint got shit fo ya..
 
i have been to a chiro... for things that are joint/skeletal i'd go back, but for things muscular i know people who've ended up with worse or chronic problems... and *especially* when the problems are neck related, there have been too many accidental deaths and court cases, when physio or a doctor would have been more appropriate..
 
sad to hear that...and i'm again, not going to defend the profession in that respect...there are mistakes in ever profession..

ALthough the only thing I CAN say is death is a very low occurrence..so low its almost nil..

My only argument is that I wish that people would realize that everything in your body is controlled by your CNS...muscles, organs, EVERYTHING..

so if one of those things are "sick" or "injured", obviously it has to do with your CNS, and where does your CNS lie? Brain and spinal cord.

How does the brain tell your organs and body to function? By sending messages via neural passageways in the spine.
 
needleboy said:
Personally if I'm having a heart attack, I want CPR, not an adjustment!!

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html

Chiropractic's Dirty Secret:
Neck Manipulation and Strokes
Stroke from chiropractic neck manipulation occurs when an artery to the brain ruptures or becomes blocked as a result of being stretched. The injury often results from extreme rotation in which the practitioner's hands are placed on the patient's head in order to rotate the cervical spine by rotating the head [1]. The vertebral artery is vulnerable because it winds around the topmost cervical vertebra (atlas) to enter the skull, so that any abrupt rotation may stretch the artery and tear its delicate lining. (The anatomical problem is illustrated on page 7 of The Chiropractic Report, July 1999.) A blood clot formed over the injured area may subsequently be dislodged and block a smaller artery that supplies the brain. Less frequently, the vessel may be blocked by blood that collects in the vessel wall at the site of the dissection [2].

Chiropractors would like you to believe that the incidence of stroke following neck manipulation is extremely small. Speculations exist that the odds of a serious complication due to neck manipulation are somewhere between one in 40,000 and one in 10 million manipulations. No one really knows, however, because (a) there has been little systematic study of its frequency; (b) the largest malpractice insurers won't reveal how many cases they know about; and (c) a large majority of cases that medical doctors see are not reported in scientific journals.

In 1996, RAND issued a booklet that tabulated more than 100 published case reports and estimated that the number of strokes, cord compressions, fractures, and large blood clots was 1.46 per million neck manipulations. Even though this number appears small, it is significant because many of the manipulations chiropractors do should not be done. In addition, as the report itself noted, neither the number of manipulations performed nor the number of complications has been systematically studied [6]. Since some people are more susceptible than others, it has also been argued that the incidence should be expressed as rate per patient rather than rate per adjustment.
 
Rudedawg, you are probably right with that article..there are occurrences of mistake within the profession..

Like I've said a couple of times, I'm not going to say chiropractic is perfect..we make mistakes..

but so do medical doctors..and their occurrences are much much more higher than ours because of more factors: unneccesary surgery or misuse of prescription drugs

No profession is perfect. But I am just trying to convey the message that look, chiropractic makes a LOT more less mistakes than medicine.

Chiropractic is here to allow YOU the patient to heal yourself..There is no adjustment of a sublixation of a particular vertebral body that will cure a certain ailment or whatever..

its a general adjustment to allow everything in your body (CNS, organs, etc) to function properly so that YOU may be at optimal capability..
 
Kakdiesel said:


I know a few..but mainly in my class..not many upper quarter (as in, not really past 2nd quarter students)

why? know some??

Actually I know quite a few but most of them are past second quarter.

Do Johnny Fortuna, Christine Cook, or John O'Conner ring a bell?
 
FreakMonster said:


Actually I know quite a few but most of them are past second quarter.

Do Johnny Fortuna, Christine Cook, or John O'Conner ring a bell?

No sorry...are any of them in the gym? THere are a few fucker sin there who are HUGE!!! ANd this one chick who I KNOW is in clinic now with blonde hair is fuckin HUGE...
 
Kakdiesel said:


No sorry...are any of them in the gym? THere are a few fucker sin there who are HUGE!!! ANd this one chick who I KNOW is in clinic now with blonde hair is fuckin HUGE...

Ya I think most guys that go to Life are juicing!!
 
Kakdiesel said:
Rudedawg, you are probably right with that article..there are occurrences of mistake within the profession..

Like I've said a couple of times, I'm not going to say chiropractic is perfect..we make mistakes..

but so do medical doctors..and their occurrences are much much more higher than ours because of more factors: unneccesary surgery or misuse of prescription drugs

No profession is perfect. But I am just trying to convey the message that look, chiropractic makes a LOT more less mistakes than medicine.

Chiropractic is here to allow YOU the patient to heal yourself..There is no adjustment of a sublixation of a particular vertebral body that will cure a certain ailment or whatever..

its a general adjustment to allow everything in your body (CNS, organs, etc) to function properly so that YOU may be at optimal capability..

I didn't write the article so I am not right about it. I just did a search and this article came up. So I am not probably right but the article IS right.

Medical Dr.'s occurrences are much higher because there are 10's of thousands more doctors and patients treated by doctors than there are by Chiropractors.

A general adjustment that needs to be how often? Once a week? Twice a week? Or does it depend on how often you can get them coming back?
 
chiro has been shown to help with things like chronic lower back pain, wheres something like western medicine isnt very effective at all

but if some dudes heart is fucked and your like 'its your spine man'....i have much less faith in that. thats why the medical community hasn't embraced chiro and has physio. if your hearts got more cholesterol in its blood vessels than a philledelphia cheese steak, you can drive a forklift truck into your back, it aint gonna do squat

western medicine is and always will be the mainstay of patient treatment because it is so tightly scrutinised, billions are spent every year in assesment of drug, their effectiveness etc, other therapies dont have that going for them
 
rudedawg said:


I didn't write the article so I am not right about it. I just did a search and this article came up. So I am not probably right but the article IS right.

Medical Dr.'s occurrences are much higher because there are 10's of thousands more doctors and patients treated by doctors than there are by Chiropractors.

A general adjustment that needs to be how often? Once a week? Twice a week? Or does it depend on how often you can get them coming back?

How often does one need an adjustment?
Just ask the 8-10 year old kids in washington dc --where a chiro was seeing over 100 kids a day for adjustments---giving them candy to show up and billing the government for this.....The guy is now doing time----

Hey Kak----how many chiroprators use a chiropractor?
And do you know Brian Lunie or Doug Jabalee he's a (national competerer and went to your school.
 
Wombat said:


How often does one need an adjustment?
Just ask the 8-10 year old kids in washington dc --where a chiro was seeing over 100 kids a day for adjustments---giving them candy to show up and billing the government for this.....The guy is now doing time----

Hey Kak----how many chiroprators use a chiropractor?
And do you know Brian Lunie or Doug Jabalee he's a (national competerer and went to your school.

I know Doug Jabalee. Hehe Crazy fucker!!!
 
FreakMonster said:


I know Doug Jabalee. Hehe Crazy fucker!!!

I don't know him but my buddy does...He does party from what here:)
What happend to him at the nationals(although he did very well) He must have been surprised with the comp. last year...I heard back problems or something.
 
Kak,

What is your response to Dr. John Sarno and his TMS (Tension Myositis Syndrome)? Sarno's stance is that back pain is the direct result of psychological problems - not physical ailments of the "back" (i.e. spine, vertebrae).

I'll understand if you go back to your earlier statement of Chiropractic being a gatekeeper to the mind and body. But wouldn't that be suporting Sarno's findings that the mind itself is controlling/influencing the body and that treating the mind, not the body, is the answer? Also would not this nullify the practice of Chiropractic manipulations if all that is needed is sound psychiatric treatment to "cure" the mind and the body?



http://www.spine-health.com/topics/cd/stress/str04.html
 
Wombat said:


I don't know him but my buddy does...He does party from what here:)
What happend to him at the nationals(although he did very well) He must have been surprised with the comp. last year...I heard back problems or something.

Yes he is a hardcore partier.

I really don't know what happened but I really thought he was place higher. The comp. was pretty tough though!!!
 
what is a chiro? Well, you can't just make one. They go through a difficult process to become one.

First, they get denied from medical school.

Then, they don't get into any dental school, except for a small one that is not actually accredited.

Third, they don't get into any DO programs, except for one in Jamaica, and an international exchange program in Pakistan.

After all that, you have to be turned down from veterinary school.

But it goes on. You're not a chiro yet. After that, you have to enroll in a Voodoo/Santeria course in Haiti or sub-Saharan Africa, only to be expelled from teh course because some of the animal sacrifices gross you out.

After all that, you are ready to train to be a chiro.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
what is a chiro? Well, you can't just make one. They go through a difficult process to become one.

First, they get denied from medical school.

Then, they don't get into any dental school, except for a small one that is not actually accredited.

Third, they don't get into any DO programs, except for one in Jamaica, and an international exchange program in Pakistan.

After all that, you have to be turned down from veterinary school.

But it goes on. You're not a chiro yet. After that, you have to enroll in a Voodoo/Santeria course in Haiti or sub-Saharan Africa, only to be expelled from teh course because some of the animal sacrifices gross you out.

After all that, you are ready to train to be a chiro.

Damn I had no idea it was so hard to be a Chiropractor. Good news is at least when those high aspiring pre-med students get turned down they have a place to turn to.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
what is a chiro? Well, you can't just make one. They go through a difficult process to become one.

First, they get denied from medical school.

Then, they don't get into any dental school, except for a small one that is not actually accredited.

Third, they don't get into any DO programs, except for one in Jamaica, and an international exchange program in Pakistan.

After all that, you have to be turned down from veterinary school.

But it goes on. You're not a chiro yet. After that, you have to enroll in a Voodoo/Santeria course in Haiti or sub-Saharan Africa, only to be expelled from teh course because some of the animal sacrifices gross you out.

After all that, you are ready to train to be a chiro.

Matt, I figured you were more intelligent than that..I'm truly disapponted in you..I could have gone to medical school. Its not about being in a less difficult professional school--its the belief system that is different..there are many medical doctors who change their mind and go to chiropractic school and vice versa..the difficulties, are the same in each school--trust me matt. but go ahead and jump on this bandwagon about how chiropractic is useless, etc. etc. etc...

I'm not here to argue..just shed light from this perspective.

99% of you who crack jokes about the profession or demean it, dont know shit about physiology..and I can bet you that.

Those who do know physiology can understand and in the very least respect the chirpractic belief..Maybe not agree, but respect the knowledge and truth behind it..

And Yes Skywalker, I said you didnt know SHIT about physiology...
 
i don't agree with chiropractic medicine 100%... especially with their disagreement with immunization.

i do think it does have its place though in skeletal/joint issues.

like i said, i would never see one for anything muscular, but when i had a jammed joint in my lower back from basketball and i could barely move, a few sessions and it was completely better.
 
smallmovesal said:
i don't agree with chiropractic medicine 100%... especially with their disagreement with immunization.

wtf!! :o :shocked:

are you serious? they disagree with immunisation ...wtf is that all about?
 
smallmovesal said:
someone tell me i'm wrong about that... i swear to god that's true though.

that is possibly the most STUPID thing ive heard come out of a health practicing group....shit the chinese herbalists, aruvedics speialists, any of the holistic dudes, ive never seen them disagree with immunisations....

there is a HUGE danger that people get sucked in by this kinda stuff. herbal medicine etc. is dangerously unregulated...a lot of these guys dont have the biomedical background to be making such grandeouse claims as these...

chiro may talk about the aligntment of the spine, CNS etc, but does it have any guidelines as to diet, exercise etc, everyday lifestyle choices. things such as aruvedic medicne and chinese medicine do and i got a lot of respect for them, but at the end of the day a LOT of western medicines are designed for treatment and are WAY more effective than re-aligning someones fucking spine, and there is SCIENTIFIC evidence to back this up
 
yes, i think i'm right about this danielson.. i just looked up some stuff to make sure i wasn't making it up...

http://www.superdoc1.com/page4.html

a chiropractor wrote this:

Although "Chiropractic" is only 105 years old, it has made great strides against "conventional medicine". When one stops to think about it, 200 years ago, the "conventional" medical treatment was "bleeding " a patient. The first President of the United States, George Washington, died from being "bled" to much. Today we do not get "bled", we get vaccinated. And no more is known about vaccinations than was known about "bleeding". "Conventional medicine " has come a long way.

Chiropractic on the other hand has held to the "tried and true", adjusting the spinal column to reduce subluxated vertebra for the correction of the cause of dis-ease. From the time we are born, to the end of our days, chiropractic spinal adjustments adds life to years and years to life.

It is very important for any physician to remember, that the first tenet of healing should be "physician, do no harm."

Thirty-Five years ago Branch County was
hit by two major tornados. Many lives were lost, and much damage was done by the storms. Those that were here will never forget. Two weeks later I came to Coldwater. I saw the damage done by the storms. However, all that I talked to about the storms, assured me that Branch County would recover, rebuild, and grow. Well, recover and rebuild came true, but "grow" was a little slower.

It also took the people of Branch County longer than I expected, to recognize alternative health care. When I came to Coldwater, about 10% of the population had a Chiropractic Physician for a doctor. Today, more than 70% of the population of Branch County have a Chiropractic Doctor . And more are finding Chiropractic as an alternative health care, to conventional medicine, every day.

I would also venture to say that I am the longest licensed physician, "in active practice", in Branch County. As a Chiropractor, I have always believed in non-invasive health care. Non- invasive health care has no fear attached to it. Conventional medicine must always put fear into a patient to have them comply. "THESE ARE THE CONSEQUENCES IF YOU DON'T COMPLY." There are always great penalties if you don't become one of the little "ducks in a row." Alternative health care gives you choices.
 
here this is a better link:

http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/chiroimmu.html

Chiropractors and Immunization
Stephen Barrett, M.D.
Many chiropractors advise against immunization. In 1992, 37% of 178 chiropractors who responded to a survey agreed that "there is no scientific proof that immunization prevents infectious disease" and 23% said they were uncertain [1]. Among the "unproven" group, 24% were American Chiropractic Association (ACA) members and 65% belonged to the International Chiropractors Association (ICA). Twenty-seven percent of the respondents said their own families had not been immunized, and 58% agreed with the statement "Immunization should never be given to people over 60 years of age." Before filling out the forms, the chiropractors were asked to read a 1979 American Public Health Association (APHA) policy statement warning that 40% of American children under age 15 had incomplete immunization against preventable diseases and that severe complications can result [2]. Only 14% agreed that "the chiropractic profession should fully support the APHA immunization policies for children and adults" Chiropractors who graduated before 1980 tended to be more negative than those who had graduated in 1980 or afterward [1].

A 1998 survey of chiropractors in the Boston area found that 30% reported actively recommended immunization, 7% reported recommending against immunization, and the rest (63%) reported that they did not make any recommendations or that they educated parents to allow them to make informed decisions [3]. However, the way they "educated" parents was not specified.

In 1999, Dynamic Chiropractic invited readers to state whether they have immunized their children. This method is not precise way to collect such data, but the answers were still interesting. Of 140 responses, the results were:

My children have receive absolutely no vaccinations: 59 (42%)
My children received only some of the usually required vaccinations: 31 (22%)
My children have received all of the usual required vaccinations 50 (36%) [4]
Chiropractic's two largest organizations oppose compulsory immunization. The ACA has acknowledged "routine vaccinations have been a proven and effective campaign in the control of many diseases." [5] However, its current policy is:

The ACA supports each individual's right to freedom of choice in his/her own health care based on an informed awareness of the benefits and possible adverse effects of vaccination.

The ACA is supportive of a conscience clause or waiver in compulsory vaccination laws thereby maintaining an individual's right to freedom of choice in health care matters and providing an alternative/elective course of action regarding vaccination. [Adopted in 1998]

The International Chiropractors Association (ICA)'s current policy states:

The International Chiropractors Association recognizes that the use of vaccines is not without risk.

The ICA supports each individual's right to select his or her own health care and to be made aware of the possible adverse effects of vaccines upon a human body. In accordance with such principles and based upon the individual's right to freedom of choice, the ICA is opposed to compulsory programs which infringe upon such rights.

The International Chiropractors Association is supportive of a conscience clause or waiver in compulsory vaccination laws, providing an elective course of action for all regarding immunization, thereby allowing patients freedom of choice in matters affecting their bodies and health. [Adopted in 1993]

The ICA does not acknowledge benefit and even sells a book called Vaccination: 100 Years of Orthodox Research Shows that Vaccines Represent a Medical Assault on the Immune System, which contends that vaccines are ineffective and dangerous.

The World Chiropractic Association, a smaller group "dedicated to promoting a subluxation-free world," is also opposed to compulsory immunization for children [6].

Chiropractors staunchly opposed the use of the polio vaccine in the 1940s and 1950s, and many still support that opposition, saying that the incidence of polio is cyclical and would have declined without any vaccination program. The fact is that since the vaccine's introduction, the incidence of polio has become extremely noncyclical. The present rate of polio is less than one hundredth its lowest level before oral immunization programs began, and public health officials have predicted worldwide eradication by the year 2000. This is one of the most dramatic success stories in the history of medical science's struggle to reduce suffering and early death. The same could be said of the vaccination program that rid the world of smallpox, a once prevalent deadly disease. Chiropractors claim that somehow this would have happened anyway. That simply is untrue.

In addition to denying the benefits, immunization opponents also magnify the risks. A small percentage of children given shots to prevent diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), and measles will experience adverse effects-most of them trivial. However, the benefits of these shots vastly outweigh the improbable harm. Where immunization programs are lacking, preventable diseases continue to cause death and disability despite improved public hygiene. Within the past few years, several states that had belonged to the Soviet Union, for example, have experienced a diphtheria epidemic due to waning of their vaccination programs.

Chiropractic opposition to immunization appears to be based on a combination of philosophy and faulty reasoning. As far back as 1889, D.D. Palmer wrote that "Vaccination is a medical delusion" and that "All sick persons, except paupers, have the right to employ whom they please to treat them. If sick persons have the above right, should not well persons have the same privilege?" [7] In 1906, his son B.J. Palmer wrote:

The idea of poisoning healthy people with vaccine virus . . . is irrational. People make a great ado if exposed to a contagious disease, but they submit to being inoculated with rotten pus, which, if it takes, is warranted to give them a disease [8].

In 1941, a group calling itself the Chiropractors' Constitutional Rights Committee published a 158-page report called "The Horrors of Vaccination and Inoculation at Work." The report stated that :There is no more flagrant imposition upon our American freedom or impending danger to the welfare of our people than compulsory vaccination," which it considered "pollution of the human blood stream." The report also claimed that 60% of the people who were inoculated would get seriously ill, that vaccination does not prevent disease, and vaccinated persons acquired smallpox more readily than unvaccinated persons [9].


This graphic is from an anti-immunization booklet published during the mid-1970s. The author, Robert T. Sottile, D.C,. claimed that all vaccines "work on the same unproven, fictitious theories and are not based on any sound, fundamental laws whatsoever." He also stated that "the Germ Theory has no scientific basis -- no more than that of the basis of vaccination and inoculation." [10]

vac.gif


In recent years, the Palmers' philosophical descendent, ICA past-president Fred H. Barge, D.C., has stated:

I am a firm opponent of artificial immunization and the antiquated germ theory on which it is based. . . . I, myself, my three daughters and my six grandchildren have never been vaccinated for anything. I even try to avoid having my dogs vaccinated.

Chiropractic philosophy states that natural immunity is to be favored over any attempt to artificially immunize the body, and chiropractic's approach to health augments the body's innate immunological capacity. [11]

Barge's statement is not merely unsubstantiated. A recent study by chiropractors found that manipulative therapy produced no clinically significant effect on five types of lymphocytes that correlate with immune-system functioning [12].

A recent chiropractic pediatrics textbook states that "rather than advising the parent(s) to vaccinate or not to vaccinate, the chiropractic doctor should focus on educating the parent(s) on the subject and allow the parent(s) to make the decision they feel is most appropriate for their child." [13] The book's 27-page chapter on these "issues" is devoted mainly to adverse reactions, contraindications, and "failures." Nothing in the chapter suggests that immunization is a good idea [14].

A "Religious" Objection

In September 2000, the Syracuse Herald American reported that the mother of 5-year-old girl Victoria Turner was suing the local school district for denying her daughter's entrance into kindergarten. The lawsuit claims that the district is violating the child's constitutional right to religious freedom. The mother states that she belongs to the Congregation of Universal Wisdom, which preaches that injection of any medication or other man-made substance would violate the sanctity of the body. The school superintendent had determined that the mother's beliefs were sincere but not part of a legitimate religion -- that a similar case in another school district had revealed that the "Congregation of Universal Wisdom" had been formed by a chiropractor, required no real training for its ministers, and did not provide religious services or other regular contacts with its members [15].

Information about this group is distributed by Walter P. Schilling, D.C., who identifies himself as its Secretary-Treasurer. The documents he distributes state that the Congregation of Universal Wisdom is a "religious order" that was incorporated in New Jersey in 1975 and has a total membership of "4,423 Souls" in 24 states, with 2,427 members in New Jersey, 1,255 in Florida and 409 New York [16]. To join, families must state the name and birthdate of each family member and include a dated statement that they will aspire to live by the group's tenets. The "customary donation" for a family lifetime membership is $75, with an additional $12 for postage if express mail is desired. "Official notification of your family enrollment as well as a statement regarding our stand on immunization" is sent upon receipt of the letter and donation..

The group's "religious tenets" express fundamentalistic chiropractic theory in religious terms. The mother has followed these tents since 1990, the same year she began working as a chiropractic assistant [17]. The tenets state that "the ministry will be constituted by those sufficiently trained in the art, philosophy and theology of the laying on of hands to the vertebrae" and that "the laity . . . shall be composed of those seeking spiritual and physical health combined by unequivocal adherence to the principles of the Congregation and the laying on of hands on their vertebrae." They further state that the use of medication -- whether by ingestion, injection, application, or inhalation -- is a sacrilege [18].

Despite all this, in March 2000, the U.S. District Judge issued a preliminary injunction permitting Victoria to continue to attend school until he decides the case after a full trial [17].

Responsible Voices
Robert Anderson, M.D., D.C., believes that chiropractors "tend to evaluate all things medical in symbolic terms as hostile and harmful." In a paper tracing the history of chiropractic opposition to immunization, he concluded:

Conservative chiropractors [base] their opposition to immunization upon imperfections in vaccines that relate to the efficacy, safety and necessity of immunizations. Further, they persist in a belief that chiropractic spinal manipulation provides an alternative method for achieving immune status. This belief has not been subjected to testing in clinical trials or laboratory experiments, and thus becomes a matter of belief rather than of scientific verity. A refusal to advocate or submit to vaccines serves conservative chiropractors as an understandable cultural symbol, but it is a symbol with sinister health costs to those who translate it into non-immune status in a world otherwise still hostage to disease-producing organisms [19].

Consistent with this, Craig E. Nelson, D.C., suggests that "it is precisely because opposing immunization sets chiropractic apart from medicine that makes this position so attractive to some chiropractors. . . . By opposing immunization, chiropractic ensures that it will not become assimilated into the health-care mainstream" [20]. Lon Morgan, D.C., has urged his colleagues to support immunization against whooping cough (pertussis). [21]. But outspoken articles of this type are uncommon in chiropractic publications.

In March 2000, Cheryl Hawk, D.C., Ph.D., a researcher at Palmer College, candidly acknowledged that her profession "has not historically emph asized the areas of knowledge from which prevention methods evolved' and that:

Furthermore, a vocal proportion of the profession openly, completely, and without reservation opposes the most widely accepted and documented preventaive procedure available: immunization. They do tthis even though the risk of serious complications from the most well established immunization is . . . minuscule [22].

In April 2000, the medical journal Pediatrics published a detailed report on chiropractors and immunization. The authors, two of whom were Canadian chiropractors, concluded:

Because early chiropractic dogma eschews both the germ theory of disease and vaccines, adherents can reject the overwhelming scientific evidence that vaccination is a highly effective methods of controlling infectious disease because this does not conform to [chiropractic's] "major premise." However, not all antivaccination chiropractors fit into this category. Some may have been unduly influenced by the antivaccination literature, while others may have rejected it for less than altruistic reasons: for example, there may be a financial advantage in maintaining a health care practice that is totally distinct from medical care. Whatever their reasons, antivaccination chiropractors and the methods by which some disseminate their views are a continuing source of embarrassment to their more evidence-based colleagues [23].

I agree. Regardless of the reason, opposition to proven public health measures is irresponsible and can cause serious harm both to patients and to our society as a whole. Attitudes toward immunization offer a way to measure whether rank-and-file chiropractors wish to practice as cultists or scientists.

References
Colley F, Haas M. Attitudes toward immunization: A survey of American chiropractors. Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics 17:584-590, 1994.
American Public Health Association. Policy statement 7805: Immunization against childhood diseases. American Journal of Public Health 69:298, 1979.
Lee ACC and others. Chiropractic care for children. Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine 154:401-407, 2000.
ChiroPoll. Dynamic Chiropractic, May 3, 1999.
An open letter to the readers of The Wall Street Journal. Advertisement, March 23, 1993, p A18.
World Chiropractic Association. Vaccinations and freedom of choice in health care. Position statement, 2000.
Palmer DD. The sick get well by magnetism. Brochure, 1889. Cited in Gielow V. Old Dad Chiro. Davenport, IA: Bawden Bros, 1981, pp 52-3.
Palmer BJ. The Science of Chiropractic: Its Principles & Adjustments. Davenport, IA: The Palmer School of Chiropractic, 1906, p 17.
Young VL and others. The Horrors of Vaccination and Inoculation at Work. St. Louis, MO: Chiropractors' Constitutional Rights Committee, 1941.
Sottile, RT. Mandatory Immunization and You? A Must for All Parents to Read! Marietta, GA: Life Foundation, circa 1976.
Barge FH. Final thoughts: possibly true? Today's Chiropractic 22(4):105, 1993.
Brennan PC at al. Lymphocyte profiles in patients with chronic low back pain enrolled in a clinical trial. Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics 17:219-227, 1994.
Buerger MA. History and physical assessment. In Anrig CA, Plaugher G, editors. Pediatric Chiropractic. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins, 1998, p 181.
Lafranchi R, Alcantra J, Plaugher G. Vaccination issues. In Anrig CA, Plaugher G, editors. Pediatric Chiropractic. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins, 1998, pp 24-50.
O'Brien J. 'Medications' against beliefs. mom says. Syracuse Herald American, Sept 2, 2000, pp B1, B6.
Congregation of Universal Wisdom. Fact Sheet, July 12, 2000.
O'Brien J. Girl stays in school without shots: Judge says Liverpool district must admit child until court rules on mother's case. Syracuse Herald American, March 14, 2001.
Congregation of Universal Wisdom: A religious order. Undated, distributed in 2000.
Anderson R. Chiropractors for and against immunization. Medical Anthropology 12:169-186, 1990.
Nelson CF. Why chiropractors should embrace immunization. ACA Journal of Chiropractic 30(5):79-85, 1993.
Morgan L. Pertussis immunization: an update. Journal of the Canadian Chiropractic Association 41(2):86-90, 1997.
Hawk C. Should chiropractic be a "wellness" profession? Topics in Clinical Chiropractic 7:23-6, 2000.
Campbell JB, Busse JW, Injeyan SH. Chiropractors and vaccination: A historical perspective. Pediatrics 105(4):E43, 2000. [Download PDF]
Chirobase Home Page
 
bleeding is still done in clinical situations today when you need to get a doods blood pressure down fast :D




why a person with little to no biochemical/clinical knowledge feels he is qualified to talk about vaccination is beyond me. thing like herd immunity to him probably mean why fish swim together in schools....

this is what i despise about herbal medicine etc. it has sooo much to offer patients in terms of chronic sufferers but sometimes you get guys who dont know their own limitations and have there head half way up their own asses like the guy u quoted. if even one child wasnt vaccinated as a result of that id love to kick him in the balls or give her a jolly good telling off :D
 
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like i said, physio, chiros, and medical doctors all have their place. chiros just ain't in muscular, neck, or germ issues imo.

i know a girl with a chronic neck problem due to seeing a chiro for whiplash. she should have done physio.

oh, and i posted another article for you danielson (above)
 
yeah

i just think its the doctors place to designate which treatment is apporpriate as he recieves the greatest amount of training.

thus he should be the first port of call and not as i 'think' kakky said (apologies if he didnt) the chiropracter

chances are they would get PLENTY of back pain referrals anyway. western medicine is SO bad at that






great links small. karma for you :)

so whatcha up too. im still makng a piss poor attempt at an essay. you?
 
i'm just up from a three hour nap... very tired lately unfortunately.

trying to get to the gym... and getting yelled at for not eating supper yet... so i'll be back in a little bit. :)
 
smallmovesal said:
i'm just up from a three hour nap... very tired lately unfortunately.

trying to get to the gym... and getting yelled at for not eating supper yet... so i'll be back in a little bit. :)

mmm...napping. napping is good :)

have a good workout. supper is good too :)
 
Crack my back!!!!! Pop my neck!!!!! If you don't do it, I don't care, I'll pull down your underwear!!!!



I need a fucking cigarette.
 
Kakdiesel,

Are you ducking my question regarding Chirpractors?

What is your response to Dr. John Sarno and his TMS (Tension Myositis Syndrome)? Sarno's stance is that back pain is the direct result of psychological problems - not physical ailments of the "back" (i.e. spine, vertebrae).

I'll understand if you go back to your earlier statement of Chiropractic being a gatekeeper to the mind and body. But wouldn't that be suporting Sarno's findings that the mind itself is controlling/influencing the body and that treating the mind, not the body, is the answer? Also would not this nullify the practice of Chiropractic manipulations if all that is needed is sound psychiatric treatment to "cure" the mind and the body?
 
Y_Lifter said:
release the prisoned impulse, the tiny rivulet of force, that emanates from the mind and flows over the nerves to the cells, and stirs them into life.

Sounds like a Girl I once dated...

She must have been one dead bitch in the sack, because this is at least the second time I've seen you mention her.:D
 
mekannik said:
Kakdiesel,

Are you ducking my question regarding Chirpractors?


Sorry..I think I forgot to reply to it..

In regards to Dr. Sarno (I have never heard of him), I agree that pain is somewhat psycological..if you want to look at psychiatry meaning dealing with the brain, its neurotrasmitters, and the cerebral hormones...

But the brain is part of the CNS along with the spinal cord..so technically all pain lies in the brain because that is the center for all mental impulses and the transmission of those impulses (if you didnt have a brain, how would you "feel" pain?)

So if you want to get into semantics, I could see how someone could view it as psychological since it deals with perception and pain..

But if you want to get technical, the definition of HEALTH (in many reference texts) is the state of optimal physical, mental, social, and spiritual well being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity..
 
In response to Danielson's and Smallmovesal's mini-convo while I was away

Yes, chiropractors do not fully agree with immunizations...

I wont speak for everybody, but my personal opinion is that immunizations are not all necessary. Immunizations is just accelerating the evolution of viruses and bacteria...with immunizations, these organisms are controlled--for now, but as you can see with something like penicilin (sp?), it can result as being almost worthless..

But this is the exact basis of controversy...Should we as humans have enough faith in our physiological structure, as history as shown us, that we are the most evolved and successful creatures on the planet, and that because of our evolutionary progress, we should be able to fight off most illnesses if our CNS and Endocrine system (regulators of all function in the human body) are in their optimal state?

Also, Al, the "whiplash" patient/friend of yours, should have gotten an x-ray first (which I assumed she did from the chiropractor) to see if any vertebral bodies were sublixated..whiplash is such a general term that it could mean anything. But note EVERYBODY, muscle pain is also due to sublixated vertebrae...if you dont believe me, ask yourself this..how do you feel pain in your muscles????? CNS with nerves that connect the muscle to the brain...and what lies between the muscle and the brain? The spinal column.
 
Kak,

I am wondering how you are such an "expert" on chiroprators and such. I mean of course you have been in school a whole what? 6 - 7 months now?

As for all the cracks you are getting.....WTF did you expect?

1) Most of the shit you post is self centered, therefore will get "cracks" at you for replys. Don't make me do a search and prove this because it hurts my shoulder to stay in the typing position for too long.

2) You are posting about a "profession" that has been questioned from day 1. The largest part of the population thinks that Chiro's are Quacks. Of course there are good and bad in every job or profession but I am talking about on the whole.
 
if we could just exist the way we are kak then we wouldn't be living longer now due to immunization and antibiotics..

like i said, chiropractors have their place, just not in anything muscular or disease-related imo. bone/joint stuff i agree - go to a chiro - other stuff, a medical doctor or physio.
 
Kakdiesel said:
In response to Danielson's and Smallmovesal's mini-convo while I was away

Yes, chiropractors do not fully agree with immunizations...

I wont speak for everybody, but my personal opinion is that immunizations are not all necessary. Immunizations is just accelerating the evolution of viruses and bacteria...with immunizations, these organisms are controlled--for now, but as you can see with something like penicilin (sp?), it can result as being almost worthless..


an immunisation does NOT help a bacteria or virus evolve. an immunisation helps save lives.

constitutionally no-one should be FORCED to have any kind of medical treastment.thats the only shred of truth i read on that stuff smalls posted.

penicillin = antibiotic

totally different to an immunisation. an immunisation is an effective method of eradicating diseases. do you think spine alignment helped eradicate smallpox from the natural world?

better still how about i inject you with some ebola virus. when you internal organs start to dissolve we can talk about the merits of a vaccine against it

chiropracticioners have an ability to allieviate a lot of suffering in this world, but if they start saying stuff like this as medical act, they are doing MUCH more harm


if ANY health practicioner was to give adivce they are not medically qualified to give, i would like to see them held legally accountable for it, but the legal system dont work like this im afraid
 
Rudedawg, I never said i was an expert..

this thread has nothing to do about being on a soap box..

I claim to know only enough to spark a decent conversation on this board vs. talking about gettin pussy, fuckin my girlfriend's mother, how shitty valentine's day is, etc. etc. etc...

I just realized this topic has never been brought up and I know we have thousands of members of this board all over the US and other countries and I know chiropractors are worldwide and that there are some myths and stereotypes about them.

I was just tryin to speak from the chiropractic point of view, not to defend, just to educate or at least exemplify where we are coming from.

You dont have to agree. I totally respect that. But I'd like for people to make their judgements based on BOTH sides of the issue.

And yes smallmovesal, I know it sounds a little crazy, but all I can say is that there are millions of people worldwide who can provide anecdotal reports of how it works for them.

And again, I re-integrate, I have always said on this thread that I DO believe Medicine has a place..

Another statement of chiro is this: Chiro first (help yourself first), drugs second (genetic disorders), Surgery last (if all else fails or if its too late, remove the organ or tissue)
 
danielson said:



an immunisation does NOT help a bacteria or virus evolve. an immunisation helps save lives.

constitutionally no-one should be FORCED to have any kind of medical treastment.thats the only shred of truth i read on that stuff smalls posted.

penicillin = antibiotic

totally different to an immunisation. an immunisation is an effective method of eradicating diseases. do you think spine alignment helped eradicate smallpox from the natural world?

better still how about i inject you with some ebola virus. when you internal organs start to dissolve we can talk about the merits of a vaccine against it

chiropracticioners have an ability to allieviate a lot of suffering in this world, but if they start saying stuff like this as medical act, they are doing MUCH more harm


if ANY health practicioner was to give adivce they are not medically qualified to give, i would like to see them held legally accountable for it, but the legal system dont work like this im afraid

Now you are talking extremes Danielson...My best friend here at school, who's father was a chiropractor, is 23 years old, and not immunized for anything..He's a very healthy individual.

You dont have to agree with what i'm saying..I'm not telling you what to do with yoru body..just suggesting...

However, consider this, chiropractic is almost a second cousin to the theories and beliefs of the eastern culture of medicine..more holistic/natural.. and correct me if i'm wrong, but the eastern part of asia is statistically and historically more healthy than the western...

But its ok, I respect your opinion because I realize you've been too conditioned with western medical practice...most of society has..and thats fine...chiropractic is just there to open your eyes to the bigger picture thats all
 
Kakdiesel said:
And again, I re-integrate,

that's *reiterate* ;)


anyway, i'm just thinking of jim hensen for instance (not that this is totally related)... he didn't believe in medication and ended up dying from pneumonia when he could have been easily treated with medication.

kak, don't say that we're all pawns - that weakens your argument.

can i ask why you decided to go into chiropractic medicine?
 
anecdotal evidence is not science. its should therefore not be presented as such. which is what they are doing by the sounds of it. which is wrong, as people may be dying from it. which is bad.

how legally accountable is a chiropracter? over here if your not a doctor, you can pretty much do anything to a patient :(
 
sorry, im not an english major ;)

Jim Henson...well maybe he should have been un-sublixated and adjusted so his body could fight off the pneumonia..but we'll never know...

The point is, again, is that based on milliions of anecdotal reports, chiropractic COULD have helped fight it off.

But realize this: Chiropractic does not treat any ailment. All we do is place the CNS and endocrine systems into optimal function so that the body can do what it's suppose to do--have every organ and cell function properly so that in case of external stress (injury or disease) it can fight it naturally.

Chiropractic adjusments will not "cure" anything...like I said, we're just gate keepers to the doctor within you..so that you can release the potential power your body has.
 
i had to correct it because it was funny

and i am the keymaster... where are gozer and zeul?

and why did you decide upon chiropractory?
 
danielson said:
anecdotal evidence is not science. its should therefore not be presented as such. which is what they are doing by the sounds of it. which is wrong, as people may be dying from it. which is bad.

how legally accountable is a chiropracter? over here if your not a doctor, you can pretty much do anything to a patient :(

Well science is any activity that requires study and method..if you want to get technical.

and how do you think research studies are begun? anecdotal reports that stir up curiosity so they do a controlled study...

The reason why there is not a lot (there is very much but not compared to medicine) of "research", is becaue of financial issues...pharmaceutical companies are a multi BILLION dollar industry annually, and the AMA has most of the gov't in its back pocket..

There is nobody to fund a controlled study except the chiropractors themselves..not enough money..we can do some research that may not make front pages of USA today, but are published in chiropractic journals monthly..but also, so what if we rely on anecdotal evidence as well?

People are people. How they are affected matters more to me than numbers and statistics..Our patients are NOT statistics...we care for each person individually, and not the way jsut because they fall into a certain category, oh well then here, take this drug or we'll do this adjustment and it'll work on you.

Health care should NOT be universal. Each person should be helped individually.

And how legally accountable is a chirorpactor? VERY. We are not in court even a fraction of what medical doctors are, but there are cases when a chiropractor is summoned to a judical system to defend himself.
 
Kakdiesel said:


Now you are talking extremes Danielson...My best friend here at school, who's father was a chiropractor, is 23 years old, and not immunized for anything..He's a very healthy individual.

You dont have to agree with what i'm saying..I'm not telling you what to do with yoru body..just suggesting...

However, consider this, chiropractic is almost a second cousin to the theories and beliefs of the eastern culture of medicine..more holistic/natural.. and correct me if i'm wrong, but the eastern part of asia is statistically and historically more healthy than the western...

But its ok, I respect your opinion because I realize you've been too conditioned with western medical practice...most of society has..and thats fine...chiropractic is just there to open your eyes to the bigger picture thats all

no kakky

im not taking extremes. i do have a lot of faithin herbal medicine, in fact i plan to do something in chinese medicine 'acupuncture etc' when i leave and im already learning chinese massage and mediation techniques

i'm disagreeing with the fact that chiropracters are presenting anti immunisation evidence AS SCIENTIFIC FACT. this is wrong for a large group of medical practicioners.

your friend is 23 ad is healthy. probably because everyone else he's come into contact has been immunised. if he could go back in time stick him in the 1600's. watch him drop lik a fly

80 yr olds who have had pneumonia have severly depressed imunne systems. flu vaccinations can help them not get pneumonia again and die.

almost all vaccines have helped drastically reduce disease amongst the populations we live in today. without them we'd be dropping like flies



chirpracters are schooled in physiology. they should let that be their limit. anything else is DANGEROUS.




(FYI things like genetics, lifestyle etc are responsible for the east being 'healthier' if you can call it that. diabates and heart diseases is more prevalant in indians that ANY other ethnic group. orientals live longer because of their diets, less unsaturated fat, less animal protein, more veg. western people eat mc donalds and die. its not ALL herbal medicine)
 
smallmovesal said:
i had to correct it because it was funny

and i am the keymaster... where are gozer and zeul?

and why did you decide upon chiropractory?

My best friend back home. HIs father is a chiropractor..and i've experienced the power of chiropractic personally.

I've seen it affect many people postively.and I also (with my chemistry degree) can see and relate to how drug action can be very very useless and sometimes do more harm than good.

I'm sure you've heard of people on 6 difference prescriptions..2 to treat the disease or illness, and the other 4 to combat the two's side effects..

Doesnt make sense to me.
 
danielson said:


no kakky

im not taking extremes. i do have a lot of faithin herbal medicine, in fact i plan to do something in chinese medicine 'acupuncture etc' when i leave and im already learning chinese massage and mediation techniques

i'm disagreeing with the fact that chiropracters are presenting anti immunisation evidence AS SCIENTIFIC FACT. this is wrong for a large group of medical practicioners.

your friend is 23 ad is healthy. probably because everyone else he's come into contact has been immunised. if he could go back in time stick him in the 1600's. watch him drop lik a fly

80 yr olds who have had pneumonia have severly depressed imunne systems. flu vaccinations can help them not get pneumonia again and die.

almost all vaccines have helped drastically reduce disease amongst the populations we live in today. without them we'd be dropping like flies



chirpracters are schooled in physiology. they should let that be their limit. anything else is DANGEROUS.




(FYI things like genetics, lifestyle etc are responsible for the east being 'healthier' if you can call it that. diabates and heart diseases is more prevalant in indians that ANY other ethnic group. orientals live longer because of their diets, less unsaturated fat, less animal protein, more veg. western people eat mc donalds and die. its not ALL herbal medicine)

What do you think we learn in chiro school? we do extensive study on physiology, CNS, endocrine, bone, muscle, DIET and NUTRITION, ETC> ETC> ETC....we study IN DEPTH all factors involving health.

My friend is healthy, never had a cold, never had an organ or tissue taken out because of lifelong chiropractic care..he injured his shoulder and clavice due to weight trainig and chiropractic adjustments have healed him..he made the mistake of being desparate last year because of the injuries and went to see a medical doctor to get anti-inflammatories and cortisone shots..the med doctor had nothing for him..just said "Dont do anything for a while." well after 6 months he still didnt feel any progress..

Went to a sports chiropractor here and extremety chiro and all is well after just 3 weeks..

Why do you lack faith in the human body? I guess its a belief system like religion. I believe in God and I believe HE created us. I believed he supplied our genetic make up with enough to be able to be healthy and survive. Do you believe we get headaches because our brains do not have enough aspirin so we must supplement it with such? Or do you think we have too many organs and not enough drugs?
 
Kakdiesel said:


Well science is any activity that requires study and method..if you want to get technical.

and how do you think research studies are begun? anecdotal reports that stir up curiosity so they do a controlled study...

The reason why there is not a lot (there is very much but not compared to medicine) of "research", is becaue of financial issues...pharmaceutical companies are a multi BILLION dollar industry annually, and the AMA has most of the gov't in its back pocket..

There is nobody to fund a controlled study except the chiropractors themselves..not enough money..we can do some research that may not make front pages of USA today, but are published in chiropractic journals monthly..but also, so what if we rely on anecdotal evidence as well?

People are people. How they are affected matters more to me than numbers and statistics..Our patients are NOT statistics...we care for each person individually, and not the way jsut because they fall into a certain category, oh well then here, take this drug or we'll do this adjustment and it'll work on you.

Health care should NOT be universal. Each person should be helped individually.

And how legally accountable is a chirorpactor? VERY. We are not in court even a fraction of what medical doctors are, but there are cases when a chiropractor is summoned to a judical system to defend himself.

yes and after investigation and only after can claims like this be made. therfore to tell someone tht his organ problems can be allievated by spinal allignment and also telling him to skip his treatment is wrong.

as is advising people to not get immunised. that shocked me

why is it studies have been conducted on many idfferent types of tradiotional medicine, and spinal alignment preventing heart disease hasnt been one of them. surely it couldnt be due to other things like diet, lack of exercise, genetics, defects in heart vaklves etc due to infection :rolleyes:

its admirable so much dedication is directed to patients. when that advice is potetially harmful to the pateint it becomes a concern. and yes, its impossible to gove a patient his own special drug every time. but every patient is individual and so are his treatments. 2 pills of aspirin isnt the standard treatment for every medical condition ya know :D
 
Kakdiesel said:


What do you think we learn in chiro school? we do extensive study on physiology, CNS, endocrine, bone, muscle, DIET and NUTRITION, ETC> ETC> ETC....we study IN DEPTH all factors involving health.

My friend is healthy, never had a cold, never had an organ or tissue taken out because of lifelong chiropractic care..he injured his shoulder and clavice due to weight trainig and chiropractic adjustments have healed him..he made the mistake of being desparate last year because of the injuries and went to see a medical doctor to get anti-inflammatories and cortisone shots..the med doctor had nothing for him..just said "Dont do anything for a while." well after 6 months he still didnt feel any progress..

Went to a sports chiropractor here and extremety chiro and all is well after just 3 weeks..

Why do you lack faith in the human body? I guess its a belief system like religion. I believe in God and I believe HE created us. I believed he supplied our genetic make up with enough to be able to be healthy and survive. Do you believe we get headaches because our brains do not have enough aspirin so we must supplement it with such? Or do you think we have too many organs and not enough drugs?

LOL

i never said chrirpractery doesnt have SOME clinical use.

but look at your posts. your painting with a pretty broad brush. your insinuating that al drugs and all medical companies create useless drugs to get you hooked. and that immunisations arent necessary, and you have a friend who is living proof

this is wrong. period.

by putting on a 'white coat' you are elevating your ability to have what you say respected by your patients. so when a homeopath says HIV can be cured by oxygenatiing blood, people believe them.

if you dont (and from what ive seen chiropracters dont) have the authority to comment on what is medically sound and not sound they shouldnt. otherwise its essentially malpractise

if i strolled into a bypass operation and went 'your doing that wrong mate, that shouldnt go there' would ANYONE listen to me if the only training i had was to massage someones scalp? slightly more extreme analogy there but it does fit
 
i have to go lift

type a response ill check itout when i get back
 
danielson said:


LOL

i never said chrirpractery doesnt have SOME clinical use.

but look at your posts. your painting with a pretty broad brush. your insinuating that al drugs and all medical companies create useless drugs to get you hooked. and that immunisations arent necessary, and you have a friend who is living proof

this is wrong. period.

by putting on a 'white coat' you are elevating your ability to have what you say respected by your patients. so when a homeopath says HIV can be cured by oxygenatiing blood, people believe them.

if you dont (and from what ive seen chiropracters dont) have the authority to comment on what is medically sound and not sound they shouldnt. otherwise its essentially malpractise

if i strolled into a bypass operation and went 'your doing that wrong mate, that shouldnt go there' would ANYONE listen to me if the only training i had was to massage someones scalp? slightly more extreme analogy there but it does fit

youre missing the point...we are trying to PREVENT illness and injury..by allowing your body to fight it off yourself..

but due to genetic disorders, yes, I fully agree your body was never capable of maininting or even achieving optimal health..therefore, like I said, chiro first, drugs second, SURGERY LAST!!!

ANd i'm all for removing an appendix that has burst..but not just because it is inflamed...

Like I said, if its too late to help you help yourself, then by all means pop some drugs or take out an organ or tissue...

ITs about prevention and maintenace, not treatment danielson..

this is where I think you are confused..i stand by the fact again, if you got your intestines hangin out of your ass, i'm not going to adjust you.i'm sendin you to the ER..

and this is also why Chiro's are legally considered as primary care givers...we MUST and are legally BOUND in referring you to other methods of care if we realize we cannot do anything for you.

That is a huge huge huge belief and must in our education..that is why our study is so extensive so that we know EVERYTHING that is wrong with you and KNOW AT ALL TIMES that if we cannot help you, then we MUST refer you to someone or something that can.

The bottom line: care for the patient. That is all. We do not stand on a soap box and proclaim to have a GOD complex and believe we heal everything. Thats not our goal. OUr goal is to help the body help itself, and if we cannot, then get you the best care to give you your health back.

Also, as a side note, there are many practices today that are called "multidisciplanary" clinics that have a chiropractor, medical doctor, and PT all working TOGETHER in the same clinic..
 
Kakdiesel said:


.

My friend is healthy, never had a cold, never had an organ or tissue taken out because of lifelong chiropractic care..he injured his shoulder and clavice due to weight trainig and chiropractic adjustments have healed him..he made the mistake of being desparate last year because of the injuries and went to see a medical doctor to get anti-inflammatories and cortisone shots..the med doctor had nothing for him..just said "Dont do anything for a while." well after 6 months he still didnt feel any progress..

Went to a sports chiropractor here and extremety chiro and all is well after just 3 weeks..


Is this the same friend who's dad is a chiro? If so why didn't he go to a chrio first. He was desperate because a chiro couldn't fix him last year or what?

Shit I guess I spent 6 hours at the hospital having surgery on my shoulder for nothing. To think it could have been cured with some "adjustments". I guess the adjustments would have opened up more space between the bursa sacs and my clavicle. Damn and I am sure after several months that led into years I would still be good after some "manipulations". I sure hope they would have a "Frequent Adjusted Customer" menu so I could choose a method of payment.
 
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