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I would think because it`s not something you "choose" then it was discovered. Am I right or is this whole thread Gay?
thanks.
and My grass is still dormant (zone6) damnit!
thanks.
and My grass is still dormant (zone6) damnit!
Was Gayness invented or discovered?
- Thread starter gonelifting
- Start date
sh4dowf4lcon
New member
evolved bro. it evolved.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Sh4dowF4lcon said:
How could it evolve if it could not be selected for?
I would agree with GL's opinion.
Robert Jan
New member
Couldn't have evolved by what is known in biology right now.
I suppose discovered... probably by many in different places lol.
Also since lots of animals have homosexual sex there is no real point to mark where it started.
I suppose discovered... probably by many in different places lol.
Also since lots of animals have homosexual sex there is no real point to mark where it started.
PIGEON-RAT
New member
Socrates invented it
sconoscuito
Banned
its all in your head, when some guy starts thinking being gay is cool, or he might be gay and with constant repetition he actually becomes gay
gay people have messed up neuro associations
gay people have messed up neuro associations
sconoscuito
Banned
jerkbox said:
if that was all over the papers and in commercials soon there would be either lot of gays or lot of people would quit smoking
smoking kills and it smells like shit, but some people still do it
its cause the tobaco industry made people believe what they wanted
PIGEON-RAT
New member
sconoscuito said:
it's a fetish. sexual preferences determining specific physical traits of potential future mates are formed at a young age. fetishes result when childhood objects/experiences (balloons, feet, spanking) are associated with the release of the chemical responsible for the preferences. if all other details of physical attraction are formed then, it seems likely that gender can be one of these elements. i'm confident that research in the next few years will support this hypothesis.
You`re either born gay or not, period.
biggest_man_in_the_world
New member
PIGEON-RAT said:
Awesome.
Been saying this for years and never realised anyone had the same theory. It makes a lot of sense and I'm positive it's correct.
PIGEON-RAT said:
Maybe fetishes work that way but I have a hard time believing gay or not gay people "form" out of this.
What "childhood" age are we talking about? Is there a cutoff to the age? If you`re right, then we can "make" anyone gay (or straight) if we wanted by influencing their childhood.
biggest_man_in_the_world
New member
Theoretically, you can be hypnotised to be gay or straight. I mean you can be hypnotised to find a mop attractive for fucks sake.
This in itself is good enough evidence for me that people aren't born gay. I think attraction is a purely psychological characteristic with both childhood and adult experiences influencing it.
I could be wrong, but I'm not.
This in itself is good enough evidence for me that people aren't born gay. I think attraction is a purely psychological characteristic with both childhood and adult experiences influencing it.
I could be wrong, but I'm not.
biggest_man_in_the_world said:
How can someone feel SO strongly about it one way or the other. I would never DREAM of being with a guy (Even Jerkbox) but I love EVERY SINGLE INCH of a woman. I would lick her from head to toe. That`s a fetish? You`re not born with that?!? It`s freaking animalistic, the way I (and a lot of others) feel about the opposite sex or same sex. It HAS to be from within. It`s too pashionate.
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biggest_man_in_the_world
New member
gonelifting said:
From within where? Your heart, your hand?
Where's the limit on how strong a fetish can be? There's people that kill to satisfy their fetishes...I'd say those fetishes are pretty strong.
Of course, you've had this strange attraction to the opposite sex for probably as long as you can remember, but when you have the attraction for that long of course it's gonna feel like it comes from 'within'.
What you actually mean by 'from within' is 'from your brain', the organ which does all your thinking and how you feel about things. All your thoughts and feelings on things can be changed by every day events. This is why attraction is a learned behaviour.
Razorguns
Well-known member
If gay wasn't *born*..
then explain why African Americans are INSTINCTIVELY prone to finding other african americans attractive?
If it can be reasoned that people of one race, via genetics, are prone to finding people in their own race attractive for dating and child rearing -- can it not also be argued, that finding people of your own sex also *genetic*. ie: prone from birth?
I don't find fat-bottomed girls attractive. I'd like to think i've been like that since birth. I'd hate to think I was born liking fat chicks, and only mass media and advertising has forced me to like those horrible, skinny, tight, big breasted hoochie mommas. Oh the horror!
then explain why African Americans are INSTINCTIVELY prone to finding other african americans attractive?
If it can be reasoned that people of one race, via genetics, are prone to finding people in their own race attractive for dating and child rearing -- can it not also be argued, that finding people of your own sex also *genetic*. ie: prone from birth?
I don't find fat-bottomed girls attractive. I'd like to think i've been like that since birth. I'd hate to think I was born liking fat chicks, and only mass media and advertising has forced me to like those horrible, skinny, tight, big breasted hoochie mommas. Oh the horror!
sconoscuito
Banned
thats the whole point....
you were raised thinking that its right to be with a woman and not men...
these days its ok to be gay so a man has a choice
you are not born to be racist, you are raised and taught to be racist, from public, tv or whatever
same thing with gays... there are gays who decide that they are gay when they are 20+ years old
to me thats a choice because all those 20 years he was straight and than with all this bullshit gay pride he decides that hes strong enaugh to be gay and he is proud to be gay cause he thinks he is acomplishing something, in reality hes just being a fag
its like asian kids thinking they are gangsters
the difference is that its easier to become that gangster than it is to become gay
thats why it takes some 20 years of repetition and telling themselfs that its okay to be gay
just like suicide, drugs... being gay is a choice and it's all in your head
you were raised thinking that its right to be with a woman and not men...
these days its ok to be gay so a man has a choice
you are not born to be racist, you are raised and taught to be racist, from public, tv or whatever
same thing with gays... there are gays who decide that they are gay when they are 20+ years old
to me thats a choice because all those 20 years he was straight and than with all this bullshit gay pride he decides that hes strong enaugh to be gay and he is proud to be gay cause he thinks he is acomplishing something, in reality hes just being a fag
its like asian kids thinking they are gangsters
the difference is that its easier to become that gangster than it is to become gay
thats why it takes some 20 years of repetition and telling themselfs that its okay to be gay
just like suicide, drugs... being gay is a choice and it's all in your head
Razorguns
Well-known member
>being gay is a choice and it's all in your head
How do you know it was a "choice"? Maybe it was 20 years of "forced" straightness to please family and friends? I was born to be successful, but i've spent decades running around clueless and without direction in life. Does that mean I was BORN to be clueless, or that I never found my "success" gene until now?
It's akin to psychologists arguing with the criminal mind was born or created. I don't believe Hitler became that way purely from listening to radio and hanging out with friends. Some people are just BORN with brain chemical imbalances and prone to being serial killers and rapists.
How do you know it was a "choice"? Maybe it was 20 years of "forced" straightness to please family and friends? I was born to be successful, but i've spent decades running around clueless and without direction in life. Does that mean I was BORN to be clueless, or that I never found my "success" gene until now?
It's akin to psychologists arguing with the criminal mind was born or created. I don't believe Hitler became that way purely from listening to radio and hanging out with friends. Some people are just BORN with brain chemical imbalances and prone to being serial killers and rapists.
sconoscuito
Banned
no way man, the only chemical imbalace here is that choice and how strong you feel about it. the drive or whatver you wanna call it
same goes for hitler
he felt so strongly that he was doing the right thing that he kept on going and the more progress he saw in his goal the harder he worked
the more they practice it, the harder it is to get it outta your head
kinda like a habit
were you born to smoke ciggaretes? I mean they kill millions of people but you still do it.
no you were not born but you were taught that smoking means being COOL, smoking means being independent mostly through media and public.
now they got those anti smoking ads and they work, its not magic but less people are smoking after they see the consecuences
if they did the same thing for gays it would work just as good, once people know that being gay highly increases your chances of getting a disease like aids, that you cant reproduce by being gay and finally that being gay is nothing to be proud about people will think twice about it
now if you heard that everyday, eventually it would be in your memory and you wouldnt even have time to think about what it would be like being gay or whatver
thats no chemical imbalance, thats just bunch of bullshit weak people are taught and doctors and pharmacutical industry makes money on
these days you gotta drug people cause you got these chemical imbalances in their brain, thats bunch of GARBAGE. you dont need to drugs for that
same goes for hitler
he felt so strongly that he was doing the right thing that he kept on going and the more progress he saw in his goal the harder he worked
the more they practice it, the harder it is to get it outta your head
kinda like a habit
were you born to smoke ciggaretes? I mean they kill millions of people but you still do it.
no you were not born but you were taught that smoking means being COOL, smoking means being independent mostly through media and public.
now they got those anti smoking ads and they work, its not magic but less people are smoking after they see the consecuences
if they did the same thing for gays it would work just as good, once people know that being gay highly increases your chances of getting a disease like aids, that you cant reproduce by being gay and finally that being gay is nothing to be proud about people will think twice about it
now if you heard that everyday, eventually it would be in your memory and you wouldnt even have time to think about what it would be like being gay or whatver
thats no chemical imbalance, thats just bunch of bullshit weak people are taught and doctors and pharmacutical industry makes money on
these days you gotta drug people cause you got these chemical imbalances in their brain, thats bunch of GARBAGE. you dont need to drugs for that
If a man grows up in a cave, will he be attracted to men or women? Will he not have a sexual desire for either?
They`re born bro, No "decision".
They`re born bro, No "decision".
sconoscuito
Banned
most likely it wont matter to him
he wont know the difference. Just like some dudes in jail fuck other guys, he could do the same. if thats what you taught him to do.
now if there was no one to teach him anything than he would most likely fuck either and decide which one he likes more I guess.
it was meant to be man and a woman for many reasons. if it wasnt so than there would be no life on earth since men cant give birth
now if its for pleasure purpuses, thats whole different thing
you can have pleasure from drugs but it doesnt mean you're doing the right thing, it has it sideffects.
he wont know the difference. Just like some dudes in jail fuck other guys, he could do the same. if thats what you taught him to do.
now if there was no one to teach him anything than he would most likely fuck either and decide which one he likes more I guess.
it was meant to be man and a woman for many reasons. if it wasnt so than there would be no life on earth since men cant give birth
now if its for pleasure purpuses, thats whole different thing
you can have pleasure from drugs but it doesnt mean you're doing the right thing, it has it sideffects.
PIGEON-RAT
New member
gonelifting said:
sorry bro, but you need to read up on how attractions are formed. you also need to realize that your brain activity is just chemical and electrical reactions. the involvement of these chemicals forms the future of your brain's activity. this doesn't prohibit lust from being animalistic, it just governs the nature of the urges.
there is absolutely NO solid evidence behind being born with it. we have mapped out the entire human genome, and if homosexuality were a trait from birth, it will be discovered; however, there is nothing to suggest that yet.
this is not to say it's a choice though, i'm not claiming that at all. but evidence would overwhemingly point to it being a result of some environmental factor.
i like girls with big asses and i like nice asses in general, i like redheads, i also like dark skinned girls. i was not born with these sexual preferences, yet that does not diminish how strongly i feel about them.
people aren't born with fetishes. nobody is born sexually attracted to spanking, nobody is born naturally liking balloons and sex, but these people nonetheless feel an extreme sexual connection with the actions/objects. that's just the result of chance.
PIGEON-RAT
New member
btw, here's an interesting article on love/attraction: http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=2424049
it only mentions fetishes in passing though. i read a good detailed article concerning sexual preference, but i can't seem to find it.
it only mentions fetishes in passing though. i read a good detailed article concerning sexual preference, but i can't seem to find it.
Imnotdutch said:
bwaaaahahahahaha!
awesome!genetic dead end
SanFrancisco
New member
"thats the whole point....
you were raised thinking that its right to be with a woman and not men...
these days its ok to be gay so a man has a choice
you are not born to be racist, you are raised and taught to be racist, from public, tv or whatever
same thing with gays... there are gays who decide that they are gay when they are 20+ years old
to me thats a choice because all those 20 years he was straight and than with all this bullshit gay pride he decides that hes strong enaugh to be gay and he is proud to be gay cause he thinks he is acomplishing something, in reality hes just being a fag
its like asian kids thinking they are gangsters
the difference is that its easier to become that gangster than it is to become gay
thats why it takes some 20 years of repetition and telling themselfs that its okay to be gay
just like suicide, drugs... being gay is a choice and it's all in your head
Online!"
This is the lamest statement i have come across in a long long time. I would not know where to begin. Yah, I'm addicted to sucking dick because i like rainbow flags and decided it one morning. "good morning Roommate, wow those gays sure are proud, i think i 'll go suck some dick".
It's just like Hitler and Asian gangsters. RIIIIIIIGGGHT.
IJIT!
you were raised thinking that its right to be with a woman and not men...
these days its ok to be gay so a man has a choice
you are not born to be racist, you are raised and taught to be racist, from public, tv or whatever
same thing with gays... there are gays who decide that they are gay when they are 20+ years old
to me thats a choice because all those 20 years he was straight and than with all this bullshit gay pride he decides that hes strong enaugh to be gay and he is proud to be gay cause he thinks he is acomplishing something, in reality hes just being a fag
its like asian kids thinking they are gangsters
the difference is that its easier to become that gangster than it is to become gay
thats why it takes some 20 years of repetition and telling themselfs that its okay to be gay
just like suicide, drugs... being gay is a choice and it's all in your head
Online!"
This is the lamest statement i have come across in a long long time. I would not know where to begin. Yah, I'm addicted to sucking dick because i like rainbow flags and decided it one morning. "good morning Roommate, wow those gays sure are proud, i think i 'll go suck some dick".
It's just like Hitler and Asian gangsters. RIIIIIIIGGGHT.
IJIT!
Robert Jan
New member
Being gay is totally gay
RaZor Ramon
New member
You see homosexually among animials sometime. Do you think they were peer pressured into those decisions? Since the damn of time there's been homosexually. I'd say it was a birth defect and I'm mean like being left handed could be viewed as a birth defect but that's so non PC I won't say that.
PIGEON-RAT
New member
RaZor Ramon said:
homosexual behavior among animals is of a totally different nature. animals do not form lifelong homosexual relationships. their homosexual activity has other purposes than sexual pleasure, which humans seek out.
not to mention that in such cases, it's all males involved in it (as far as i know), so drawing this parallel with humans would suggest that all men naturally have homosexual tendencies. why don't we all sodomize each other as a greeting ritual?
If a male gay couple raised a male child, would he be gay? What if there were a community of gay men raising male children with no outside media to interfere, this would lead to the children being gay?
Of course the gay parents would tell them it`s "OK" to be whatever you wanted but the children would ultimately "choose" to be gay because that`s all they knew?
What if at 20 years old he was then introduced to females, would he still be "gay"?
Of course the gay parents would tell them it`s "OK" to be whatever you wanted but the children would ultimately "choose" to be gay because that`s all they knew?
What if at 20 years old he was then introduced to females, would he still be "gay"?
RaZor Ramon
New member
PIGEON-RAT said:
Humans and animals are different in many ways. I was merely illustrating a point on homosexuality being something within and man didn't just invent it one day. Are going to tell me animal heterosexual habits mirror those of humans? Some do. Most don't.
sconoscuito
Banned
gonelifting said:
it depends how strongly he felt towards being gay.
and as for the gay guy up there, yes it is like suicide. You dont decide to commit a suicide at any given time, it takes times and piled up emotions/feelings that make you make that decisision. When those bad feelings overpower the good ones and you completly stop thinking about everything positive, while only thinking how great it would be to leave this world thats when you do it.
It all depends how strongly you feel about a certain issue.
do you think those athletes that made it to the top were just thinking, oh hey im just gonna drink some beer here and there and one day gonna end up in the NFL. no, they gave half of their life to make it all the way up there, their feelings toward that sport were so strong that they gave 110% compared to other athlete who's drive wasnt as strong. That's why you see lot of those atheletes who are fucked up in their head, emotionaly. Sometimes their so dedicated to what they do that they forget everything around them.
you people are underestimating the tremendous power of human brain and what its capable of doing.
"Of course the gay parents would tell them it`s "OK" to be whatever you wanted but the children would ultimately "choose" to be gay because that`s all they knew? "
would a kid raised in the ghetto all of a sudden become someone like bill gates lets say?
chances are that he can do that if he takes the appropriate steps, and to take those steps he would need to have a drive to succeed compared to 90% of people that live in the ghetto and to them it's okay to kill people, its okay to sell drugs, it is completly normal for him to believe that he is dumb and he doesnt belong in school cause thats what he's been told ever since he was born. But there are few that make it out the ghetto and become succesful, am I not right?
you guys know that children form most of their prejudices before they enter 1st grade? Now imagine more children being told that its okay to be gay and not told about all the negative things about it. They eventually give being gay a thought and lot will decide that at a very young age which way they want to go. And that is why there is more gays these days then there was 200 years ago lets say. Cuase 200 years ago they didnt advertise gay pride shit all over the papers.
bowling ball nutz
New member
gonelifting said:
I have a friend who is Bi and his dad is gay, His dad was married to a woman one time, divorced and is now gay, and I know a few gay couples who have kids from being married when younger, I also know a guy who was married has kids and was a cop and now only messes with guys, he saiys he could still fck a chick but chooses guys
I think it might have something to do with being fucked over by women terribly bad a few times to cause a shift over to liking the other sex, one guy I know just doesnt like women period!, lol
bowling ball nutz said:
lol Speaking for myself, I don`t care if every woman on the planet was a bitch. I`d either have Zero sex, or but up with their shit just to have sex. I would NEVER switch sides because of that reason.
THEY were gay or BI BEFORE this happened!!! They just did`nt know it.
On another note of "hypnotizing" the brain from childhood or whatever, Can you do that with healthy foods opposed to junk food? What if we told our kids (which a lot of us do) that vegetables were really good for you and the benefits of eating right, would that make them eat right forever because it`s programmed in their brain?
Deus Ex Machina
New member
bowling ball nutz said:
uh oh... wait for chesty's newest post 'so... i met this guy....'
haha
bowling ball nutz
New member
gonelifting said:
eventually its not about sex, its about feelings
sconoscuito
Banned
gonelifting said:
yes it's called mental conditioning. Kids associate more pain to eating vegetables than pleasure. It is kind of complicated to exaplin to a little kid of all the nutritional benefits they will get from eating vegetables so you need to find another way. They need to associate vegetables with something positive, everytime they eat them you can tell them that their muscles look bigger or something as simple as that will get kids attention. You need to find a way for them to start associating something good to vegetables. And if thats not working you change your aproach to something else.
I know when I was a little kid, my mom used to make real nice cakes with all the cream and stuff. well one day I ate the whole god damn thing, this humangous cake with all the nice toppings, and ended up in a hospital with fever. After that little incident I ate a little piece of cake maybe 3-5 times in my whole life.
This guy that just posted above us described something very interesting(bowling ball nuts)
The reason why someone would go from being straight to gay is pain. Those people have been fucked over so many times that they associate pain with women, with relationships and look for answers elswhere.
Now a person in their right mind would look at that from a different angle and see what he did wrong so he can try a different approach. it might not work again but you have to keep trying because it will only make you better. Past does not equel future, today is a new day and you can start changing and making new choices at any given time, you just need to know exactly what you want and where your going. Once you know that you make plans to get there and changes if somethings not working.
the most succesful people in life are also the ones who failed more than others. Because they learned of their mistakes and tried a different approach.
you can either improve from desperation or inspiration, for lot of people it is desperation. That means that only once they hit rock bottom they start changing, thats the case in alot of fat people, its only a matter of time. Now there are people who change but than go back to being fat again of course but that can be fixed too. most of the time they dont know what exactly they want. They have this goal to lose 30 lbs and when they do they are done. Thats what gets them fat again. They dont have long term goals, they enjoy those few months of being skinny again and than end up going back to their old habits cause they dont have a goal after that.
You can turn any gay man into a straight man and visa versa. Just like you can get somenoe to quit smoking or quit doing drugs.
sconoscuito
Banned
here's the perfect example just to end this
You got these girls these days who without any hesitation will get with another girl to get some attention.
Did you see this a lot in the past? no
its something that became cool lately(I like some girl on girl action myself)
why they do it?
because it's almost ok to do it, as a matter of fact it is encouraged in lot of cases
it turns on most of the guys if not all
gets lot of attention
etc. etc.
are they full blown lesbians? hell no, maybe for that minute of glory
but it became totally COOL to do that these days and girls do it
if you've watched billy madison and saw that moment where the kid pees his pants while billy makes everyone think that peeing your pants is exetremly cool. It's exactly same with us adults, no matter how smart you think you are, your brain is that easy to alter untill you of course know more about what you can do with your head
same goes with gays, but feelings here are just a little bit stronger and also stonger beliefs lead to that. This can be reversed
You got these girls these days who without any hesitation will get with another girl to get some attention.
Did you see this a lot in the past? no
its something that became cool lately(I like some girl on girl action myself)
why they do it?
because it's almost ok to do it, as a matter of fact it is encouraged in lot of cases
it turns on most of the guys if not all
gets lot of attention
etc. etc.
are they full blown lesbians? hell no, maybe for that minute of glory
but it became totally COOL to do that these days and girls do it
if you've watched billy madison and saw that moment where the kid pees his pants while billy makes everyone think that peeing your pants is exetremly cool. It's exactly same with us adults, no matter how smart you think you are, your brain is that easy to alter untill you of course know more about what you can do with your head
same goes with gays, but feelings here are just a little bit stronger and also stonger beliefs lead to that. This can be reversed
biggest_man_in_the_world
New member
gonelifting said:
You show a major lack of understanding towards this. Read pigeon-rats posts and the article he posted more carefully because he's pretty spot on.
With regards to 'hypnotizing' the brain, telling you child to eat lots of healthy foods isn't exactly hypnotism!
In fact, if you tell a kid "dont EAT THAT JUNK FOOD", then the kids going to do it. The mind can only deal with positive suggestions.
Again, attraction is a learned behaviour as covered in the article posted by P-R.
A case like 'a child growing up with 2 gay parents in a cave' is pretty to hard to dis-prove because this is so unrealistic, also because there's so many other factors which could change whether or not someone grows up gay or straight.
Deus Ex Machina
New member
.
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Was heterosexuality invented or discovered?
Does that question seem inane? Uh huh.
Until the middle of the 19th century, there was no term for homosexuality or heterosexuality. In fact, "heterosexuality" was not identified until "homosexuality" was given a name. The normal, in short, depends on the identification of the deviant in this case. And that should give you an idea of why heterosexuals are SOOOOOOOO preoccupied with queers. If gay people weren't around, heterosexuality would lose the ground of its meaning as IDENTITY.
There was in fact no sexual "normal" before homosexuality was identified. In the Greco-Roman world and afterward, throughout the Mediterranean basin, men had sex with other men under the same set of rules that governed other forms of sexuality. The rules were based on penetration, not gender. When homosexuality became identified, it was the first time in human history that people were assigned an IDENTITY based upon sexual behavior involving members of the same gender. Prior to that time it was possible to have sex with members of your own gender, without assuming an identity. (Penetration reinforced power relations of the hierarchal societies of those times.)
It was sodomy, not homosexuality that the Bible forbade. Indeed, sodomy is classified as a sin because it is tempting. All sin depends for its identification on temptation. In other words: the church recognized early on that anyone is capable of sodomy.
Even after it was invented as a category of sexuality, homosexuality was not very much pathologized until the 20th century. In New York at the turn of the century, there was a huge gay community that interacted freely with the straight community. And bisexuality was common. Italian men in NY were particularly infamous for their taste for sodomy (and their sexuality was deployed under the same taboos govenring penetration in the ancient world). You can read Chauncey's "Gay New York" for a prize-winning study of sexual life in New York before the second world war.
Soooooooooo.....HOmosexuality as an identity was definitely invented and ditto for heterosexuality. Sodomy, you might call a discovery but it was discovered at the dawn of time. There are even cave drawings of men anally copulating with one another. Blame it on Piltdown Man, that big fag.
Does that question seem inane? Uh huh.
Until the middle of the 19th century, there was no term for homosexuality or heterosexuality. In fact, "heterosexuality" was not identified until "homosexuality" was given a name. The normal, in short, depends on the identification of the deviant in this case. And that should give you an idea of why heterosexuals are SOOOOOOOO preoccupied with queers. If gay people weren't around, heterosexuality would lose the ground of its meaning as IDENTITY.
There was in fact no sexual "normal" before homosexuality was identified. In the Greco-Roman world and afterward, throughout the Mediterranean basin, men had sex with other men under the same set of rules that governed other forms of sexuality. The rules were based on penetration, not gender. When homosexuality became identified, it was the first time in human history that people were assigned an IDENTITY based upon sexual behavior involving members of the same gender. Prior to that time it was possible to have sex with members of your own gender, without assuming an identity. (Penetration reinforced power relations of the hierarchal societies of those times.)
It was sodomy, not homosexuality that the Bible forbade. Indeed, sodomy is classified as a sin because it is tempting. All sin depends for its identification on temptation. In other words: the church recognized early on that anyone is capable of sodomy.
Even after it was invented as a category of sexuality, homosexuality was not very much pathologized until the 20th century. In New York at the turn of the century, there was a huge gay community that interacted freely with the straight community. And bisexuality was common. Italian men in NY were particularly infamous for their taste for sodomy (and their sexuality was deployed under the same taboos govenring penetration in the ancient world). You can read Chauncey's "Gay New York" for a prize-winning study of sexual life in New York before the second world war.
Soooooooooo.....HOmosexuality as an identity was definitely invented and ditto for heterosexuality. Sodomy, you might call a discovery but it was discovered at the dawn of time. There are even cave drawings of men anally copulating with one another. Blame it on Piltdown Man, that big fag.
SanFrancisco
New member
I cannot believe that you think gay men can switch to being straight and vice-versa. Thi sis completely untrue. There is not a larger concentration of gay people now than 200 years ago. No, Will and Grace and rainbow flags have not pervaded our culture so that it is turing our kids gay! There is a larger concentration of "out" gay people now with more visibility than in the past. The construct of pride may be assisting poeple in accepting their innate nature but it didn't plant it there! Women making out with others is a frat house sport to turn the straight men on. You're right - they are not full on lezs- they are just engaging in a hedonistic or trendy game.
I think i may be the only fag interjecting an opinion here so let me tell you something: I was born gay. I am as sure of that as i am that the earth is round. My earliest memory is that of being very different. I did not become gay because i saw Billy Crystal on "Soap" and thought he was cool. ... then when i was about 8 i dressed up as Wonder woman with blue underoos and made bracelettes out of a cardboard wrapping paper core. Then i took the gold string used to wrap presents and used that as my magic laso. (that sort of tipped my parents off).
and there's no way I am going to switch teams. It's nature - not nurture.
I think i may be the only fag interjecting an opinion here so let me tell you something: I was born gay. I am as sure of that as i am that the earth is round. My earliest memory is that of being very different. I did not become gay because i saw Billy Crystal on "Soap" and thought he was cool. ... then when i was about 8 i dressed up as Wonder woman with blue underoos and made bracelettes out of a cardboard wrapping paper core. Then i took the gold string used to wrap presents and used that as my magic laso. (that sort of tipped my parents off).
and there's no way I am going to switch teams. It's nature - not nurture.
SanFrancisco
New member
By the way Bowling Ball Nutz- you don't mind if i jerk off to your avatar do you?
SanFrancisco said:
so wait a second. how would you know if there were more people ''out'' now than before, but everyone was still gay then?
if no one told anyone how would you know?
Tiervexx
New member
PIGEON-RAT said:
There are animals that will only have sex with members of the same sex. One woman that I see at work on a regular basis has a gay dog. Do you think this happens because they had a bad break up? Or because they thought it was cool to be gay?
This is just part of the natural variaty of life.
Of course sex can be a choice, it is a choice if you are bi.
Tiervexx said:
its been my experience to learn that variety in life comes largely from genetics.
sconoscuito
Banned
SanFrancisco said:
you forced yourself to become gay. Just like some kids join a gang thats exactly what you did. And now you think you are fullfilled just like those kids in the gang.
let's do this
for a human to be fulfilled he/she must meet these human needs:
1. Certainity/comfort
2. uncertainity/variety
3. significance
4. Connection/love
this is important
5. growth
6.contribution
#1 now you think that you are comfortable and certain that you are gay
#2 you find being gay is different from others there for its a variety
#3 you feel that by being gay you are unique/different like you just called yourself earlier and maybe even better than everyone else.
#4 you found connection and by being gay. One problem though, this connection is negative, just like kids join a gang or kids who do drugs so they can be part of the group, thats exactly what you are doing by being gay.
#5 none
#6 (you think you may be contributing but you're not)
#5 and 6 are the most important ones for a human being in being fulfilled and living a good life. You cant get that by being gay
being gay is one of the worst experinces just because
1. it is not good for you
2. is not good for others and,
3. does not serve the greater good
but the problem is that it feels good to you, just like drugs would, gives you instant pleasure but leads you nowhere therefor your life is just worthless.
now by being straight you can actually have a family, you can have a son or a daughter and it is one of the best experiences one could have because
1. feels good
2. is good for you
3. is good for others
4. serves the greater good
you wouldnt exist if there were no women in the world, so think about that for a minute.
"Women making out with others is a frat house sport to turn the straight men on. You're right - they are not full on lezs- they are just engaging in a hedonistic or trendy game. "
you're doing the same thing, except that you feel emotionally stronger toward being gay.
Feelings=your life
and yes you can be changed, it would take longer than somenoes whos not as gay or proud to be gay but anything can be done.
people are trained to kill, people can be trained to like women which is actually how it should be so its an easier thing to do.
just takes time and repetition and you'll be thinking about how you've wasted all those years behind you.
sconoscuito
Banned
Tiervexx said:
we're not talking about dogs here though
there is a big difference between human and an animal, especially intelligence levels.
bowling ball nutz
New member
people are born gay! they start out doing what is known as normal for accceptance, and later they realize they are gay and switch teams.. like I said, I know plenty of gays with kids
sconoscuito
Banned
hell no
they are made
just like killers, drug addicts, racists, panzys, hoes etc gays are made
you might be born with a down syndrom or a twin brother but not gay
they are made
just like killers, drug addicts, racists, panzys, hoes etc gays are made
you might be born with a down syndrom or a twin brother but not gay
SanFrancisco said:
Well, I'm certainly gay and I do not believe that a homosexual IDENTITY is biological only. If sexuality were not on a scale, there'd be no such thing as bisexuality. Of course, it's fashionable for gay people to subscribe to the idea that there are of necessity only two sexual species, that bisexuals are homosexuals who can't commit to their sexuality. The reason is that if bisexuality is real, it means sexuality is fluid and that seems to give ammo to the reparative therapy people, whose tedious argument conoscuito has summarized. I am adding this sentence to my stationery, right under my name:
"people are trained to kill, people can be trained to like women which is actually how it should be so its an easier thing to do"
You WILL fuck that pussy at gunpoint, pussyboy! Sad to tell you cono, but all those people who claimed to change, the leaders of the ex-gay ministries and model patients of the reparative therapists, turned out to go right back to homosexuality. You see, there's just no real reason to deny oneself love and pleasure when it doesn't deny someone else something. That's all gay people want: the freedom to love.
Now, the fact that there may be an aspect of social construction in gay identity does not mean, as cono argues here, that it's changeable. By inventing sexual species -- hetero/homo -- society requires people to conform. There is a principle in gender theory called "performativity." It accounts for the way gender (as compared to biological sex) is constructed by the reiteration of gesture, clothing, voicing, decoration, etc.
These are all transmitted by the culture and it is virtually impossible to escape them. The same occurs with sexual identity. 100 years ago in New York, there was no social pressure to subscribe to an "identity" called "homosexual" just because you fucked a man once in a while. This is just true and well documented, to say nothing of life in the classical ages. Now, unless you are in the US Navy or a prison, you are automatically branded queer if you engage in even occasional sodomy.
sconoscuito
Banned
"You WILL fuck that pussy at gunpoint, pussyboy! Sad to tell you cono, but all those people who claimed to change, the leaders of the ex-gay ministries and model patients of the reparative therapists, turned out to go right back to homosexuality. You see, there's just no real reason to deny oneself love and pleasure when it doesn't deny someone else something. That's all gay people want: the freedom to love."
that's like saying most fat people that lost weight will go back to being fat, it is true in some cases but not most. and once again it comes down to a choice here, if the person has enaugh will to change for better than he will do it.
at this rate beastality will become absolutely normal in near future.
that's like saying most fat people that lost weight will go back to being fat, it is true in some cases but not most. and once again it comes down to a choice here, if the person has enaugh will to change for better than he will do it.
at this rate beastality will become absolutely normal in near future.
sconoscuito said:
Comparing a sex and love object to a bowl of ice cream is absurd. There is NO evidence that people can effectively change their sexual orientation. There are people who learn to deny themselves the pleasure and love they desire, and for what reason -- to keep people like you happy? -- I can't imagine. All of the studies from the association for reparative therapy have been exposed as fraudulent.
And it's even bizarrer to compare love between members of the same sex to inter-species fucking. I am unaware of cases where people into bestiality wanted to marry their goats, chickens and eels.
Tiervexx
New member
sconoscuito said:
Blah blah blah! This is a bunch of unsupported horse shit.
When I realized I was gay, I was not happy about it because of the way I was raised, I tried to "turn" strait for years and it just didn't happen. It didn't happend because it does not work that way in the real world.
You have never been in that situation so you can't even comprehend it, yet you try to through out your dumbass opinion.
Tiervexx
New member
sconoscuito said:
More evidence that you are ignorant, for a homosexual fucking a member of the oposit sex might mean some physical instantanious pleasure but after that you realize that there is something very wrong with it. Only members of the same sex can feel truly comfortable.
sconoscuito said:
Collectivist horseshit. Everytime I hear about this "greater good" I wan to vomit
This is when you can be sure you are dealing with a retard.
sconoscuito
Banned
no thats been proved over the years and proved by many people, be it gay, top athletes, top succesful businesmen etc etc.
you on the other hand are in denial and comming up with unnsuported comebacks.
when a guy is 200lbs overweight, yes it will be harder for him to lose those 200lbs than the guy whos 20lbs overweight. But that doesnt mean it cant be done, the usual response you would get from that fat guy would most likely be just like yours, negative and unmotivated.
"And it's even bizarrer to compare love between members of the same sex to inter-species fucking. I am unaware of cases where people into bestiality wanted to marry their goats, chickens and eels."
denis rodman married himself, so just wait and maybe not in our generation but this people out of boredom and these 6 resons
1. Certainity/comfort
2. uncertainity/variety
3. significance
4. Connection/love
this is important
5. growth
6.contribution
especially reason #2 uncertainity/variety people will try somethin new.
now what you just said shows how strongly and blindly you feel about being gay so yes it would be harder to change but it can be done.
smoking KILLS but people still do it.
also what you focus on is what you get, if you focus on being gay and put your feelings to action you will eventually be gay.
you on the other hand are in denial and comming up with unnsuported comebacks.
when a guy is 200lbs overweight, yes it will be harder for him to lose those 200lbs than the guy whos 20lbs overweight. But that doesnt mean it cant be done, the usual response you would get from that fat guy would most likely be just like yours, negative and unmotivated.
"And it's even bizarrer to compare love between members of the same sex to inter-species fucking. I am unaware of cases where people into bestiality wanted to marry their goats, chickens and eels."
denis rodman married himself, so just wait and maybe not in our generation but this people out of boredom and these 6 resons
1. Certainity/comfort
2. uncertainity/variety
3. significance
4. Connection/love
this is important
5. growth
6.contribution
especially reason #2 uncertainity/variety people will try somethin new.
now what you just said shows how strongly and blindly you feel about being gay so yes it would be harder to change but it can be done.
smoking KILLS but people still do it.
also what you focus on is what you get, if you focus on being gay and put your feelings to action you will eventually be gay.
Tiervexx said:
well it doesnt lead to society furthering itself. you havent responded in any other way to any comments except ''horseshit''.
sconoscuito
Banned
juicedpigtails said:
thank you
Tiervexx
New member
juicedpigtails said:
and the simple act of being a hetersexual does lead to sociaty furthering itself?
Starting a sucsesful buisness furthers sociaty, in the since that it helps the costomers.
Teaching people can "further sociaty"
There is a huge number of things that someone can do that will help some people, and thus help sociaty if there is such an entity. But the simple act of being gay or strait does not.
you say that I am not supporting my claims but I don't see either of you supporting yours.
sconoscuito
Banned
because of hetersexuals is why you are here typing some nonsense out.
you dont see no support because you are in denial
you dont see no support because you are in denial
Tiervexx said:
im talking about perpetuating society, chief. you misquote biology textbooks and dont understand genetics but i dont call you out on ''gay'' gene theories or anything like that.
you yourself are empirical evidence that ''practicing'' heterosexuality perpetuates society.
in the sense im talking about and the sense you are attempting to talk about
teaching - does not further society
starting a business - does not further society.
Tiervexx
New member
sconoscuito said:
What has been proven by who and how?!
sconoscuito said:
yes, you just listed some very valid reasons why many people end up in, and stay in bad relationships. Both gay and strait people do this.
But if a gay man ends up getting a divorce because he always felt like there was something wrong with his relationship with his wife in a big way and suddenly finds that is so much happier with a guy then why on Earth should he leave him? And who are you to say that it is destructive if nobody is harmed just because no children are produced?!
And how on earth is this comparable to a drug addiction? Can I OD on gay sex?
sconoscuito said:
CAn I get lung cancer or any other serious health conditions just from being gay?
And don't even try to say diseases, promiscuous sex of any kind can result in that, and monogamous people of any sexuality rarely get them.
sconoscuito said:
I NEVER focused on being gay. I don’t know of anyone (any guys at least) that ever has. This makes about as much sense as someone claiming that gravity is just a state of mind.
I focused on being strait for years, but then gave up and accepted that I am gay, but I never focused on it, ever.
Tiervexx
New member
juicedpigtails said:
I did not say that there was a gay gene, and when did I misquote, or even try to quote a biology textbook?
I suggested, and do believe that there is a biological cause of it, but biology is more complex than just genetics. I have posted a study on here severl times that linked it to the devolopment of a certain part of the brain.
juicedpigtails said:
Just existing does not further anything.
What is really a more impressive "society" a place where everyone sits around, humps, and makes babies, which is all you seem to value, or a place with cities, entertainment and knowledge?
The examples I listed contribute to the cities and knowledge. It is obvious that you have to exist and reproduce to have that, but just existence by itself is kinda useless.
sconoscuito
Banned
"CAn I get lung cancer or any other serious health conditions just from being gay?"
yes, aids
educate yourself than come back.
yes, aids
educate yourself than come back.
sconoscuito
Banned
"I NEVER focused on being gay. I don’t know of anyone (any guys at least) that ever has. This makes about as much sense as someone claiming that gravity is just a state of mind.
I focused on being strait for years, but then gave up and accepted that I am gay, but I never focused on it, ever."
thats a lie
you dont just turn gay in a given second
I focused on being strait for years, but then gave up and accepted that I am gay, but I never focused on it, ever."
thats a lie
you dont just turn gay in a given second
sconoscuito
Banned
and if existance is useless to you than you wouldnt be here
Tiervexx said:
you say it is useless but you fail to see what im talking about. lets play the odds game! what are the odds you can reproduce if you dont exist? less than admirable.
what are the odds you can reproduce if you exist? moreso than the former.
as i have stated before i am talking about perpetuating society, not its quality.
the point im saying with regards to bio textbooks is that youre right, biology is more complicated than genetics. thats why when you are talking about being gay or born intersexed you have to take into consideration what can affect transcription of genes. Androgens are potent transcription factors. what has been shown to mess with fetal development (sexually)? excessive androgens or the lack of during the fetus differentiation period which is like weeks 6-14 or something i dont remember.
also youve argued that you are born gay. whether you try to say there's no gay gene or not, you basically just stated your genetics determine whether or not you are gay.
inconsistencies.
Tiervexx
New member
sconoscuito said:
I did not say that existence was useless you dipshit!
I said that existence BY ITSELF was useless, or are you even capable of fathoming the idea happiness, and civilization?
Is it really worth existing if your entire life will just be a never ending beating? Of course not, real life requires more.
sconoscuito
Banned
Tiervexx said:
Because I've read books, I did my research on human behavior, Psychology etc.
yes you can again deny thaat it's all horse shit but you're only making yourself look dumb here.
You dont just decide somethng like that in a given second, like I said it takes lot of emotions/feelings thats brings you to that point.
ciggaretes, suicide, drugs you name it works the same way.
once again
champions are made
killers are made
gangsters are made
losers are made
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Gays are made also
Tiervexx
New member
sconoscuito said:
This may come as some supprise to you but just saying "I've read a few books" is quite a bit weaker than someone talking about what they have experienced.
And if you really understood psychology you would know that it is pretty damn far from concrete
You can not test psychology in a truly controled enviornment, and nobody has even come close to figuring out all the genetic factors that go into human behavor, OR the enviormental factors, much less figure out how they all fit togeather.
Last edited:
sconoscuito
Banned
You are born gay is just an excuse.
It's the same exact excuse that people use when reffering to famous athletes that they were born with that talent. They were not, they were made because they had the drive to be the best, they believed to be the best, they felt that they could achieve it and they knew exactly what they wanted.
It's the same exact excuse that people use when reffering to famous athletes that they were born with that talent. They were not, they were made because they had the drive to be the best, they believed to be the best, they felt that they could achieve it and they knew exactly what they wanted.
Tiervexx said:
so now youre trying to tell me that something in your genes says you are gay?
didnt you say the opposite on at least a billion threads?
Tiervexx
New member
juicedpigtails said:
Are you really this damn stupid?
I will try to make this as simple as possible for you.
1) I believe it is something that develops because of how the brain is exposed to hormomes.
2) I am not sure when exaclt this develops but I think it might be before you leave the womb (believe it or not but you do develop a little before being born). This is basied on a study I posted here a few times.
3) I could be wrong in this, but even if it did not happen until I was 5 the end result is that I turned gay because of a biological cause, and therefore not a choice
Tiervexx said:
Are you really this damn stupid?
I will try to make this as simple as possible for you.
1) I believe it is something that develops because of how the brain is exposed to hormomes.
2) I am not sure when exaclt this develops but I think it might be before you leave the womb (believe it or not but you do develop a little before being born). This is basied on a study I posted here a few times.
3) I could be wrong in this, but even if it did not happen until I was 5 the end result is that I turned gay because of a biological cause, and therefore not a choice
THINGS HAPPEN BECAUSE DNA IS TRANSCRIBED AND TRANSLATED
how else would it happen? are you living in an alternate reality? steroid and steroid like hormones (including thyroid hormones) bind to nuclear receptors and are transcription factors. what gene are they messing with?
SanFrancisco
New member
Scono,
You are making yourself look very foolish, not us. "ive done the research ..blah blah blah..." No, you have just blabbed about joining gangs and how that's just like Hitler and homosexuality... or whatever you're trying to say.
I can only think that you are a troll sitting at home trying to come up with the lamest comments you can imagine and laughing because people are bothering to try to argue with a moron. There is not a single person that I know who would not laugh at your statements, they are truly insipid and it obviously does no good to try to get you to rethink your position.
If this is not the case- I have one question for you - are you a former homosexual who has been cured?
You are like a saturday Night Live character that everybody hates.
You are making yourself look very foolish, not us. "ive done the research ..blah blah blah..." No, you have just blabbed about joining gangs and how that's just like Hitler and homosexuality... or whatever you're trying to say.
I can only think that you are a troll sitting at home trying to come up with the lamest comments you can imagine and laughing because people are bothering to try to argue with a moron. There is not a single person that I know who would not laugh at your statements, they are truly insipid and it obviously does no good to try to get you to rethink your position.
If this is not the case- I have one question for you - are you a former homosexual who has been cured?
You are like a saturday Night Live character that everybody hates.
sconoscuito
Banned
prove me wrong
have in mind that you are not born gay so what exactly turns you gay?
a Decision just like everything else.
the only people that really argued here were you and tiverxx but I wouldnt call name callings much of an argument
so go ahead tell me what led those people with fucked up lives turn gay etc
have in mind that you are not born gay so what exactly turns you gay?
a Decision just like everything else.
the only people that really argued here were you and tiverxx but I wouldnt call name callings much of an argument
so go ahead tell me what led those people with fucked up lives turn gay etc
sconoscuito said:
Cite them. Cite the research that proves homosexuality is purely a choice and can be reversed. (In fact, include the research demonstrating that heterosexuality is a choice, which is what you're really saying.)
And just for my amusement also include the research demonstrating that libido and hunger are analagous and comparatively subject to behavioral modification.
Also please include research demonstrating that being gay causes AIDS. This is big news for the hundreds of thousands of African men and women who have been screwing one another and getting infected. Perhaps you'd like to change your statement to say that being gay or resident of the African continent causes AIDS.
sconoscuito
Banned
Chances of aids highly increase when being gay
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1032660/posts
first thing that came up while doing a search, "Its about time that the community, the gay community, has come out of denial about how serious HIV is and their responsibility in it,"
do you really want me to start citing all the resources
read a book by tony robbins called Awaken the Giant Within, that should give you some summary on human behavior
than read this book called "Man's Search for Meaning" by Dr Victor Farnkl.
and dont just read the summary and than come back to me. Once you read through the whole thing you will get the idea of how your mind works.
as for you, cite those resources that claim that gay is a birth defect.
Also the reason why I'm against homosexuality is because there is a big double standard out there
If I went to school and handed out gay party flyers and they tried to stop me, I would argue that I have freedom of speech.
Yet, If I handed out Bible Study flyers. They would SCREEm.... SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!!!!
if gay men kept it to themselfs and minded their own business I'd be ok with it, but these days they got these gay pride parades and shit which is just absurd.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1032660/posts
first thing that came up while doing a search, "Its about time that the community, the gay community, has come out of denial about how serious HIV is and their responsibility in it,"
do you really want me to start citing all the resources
read a book by tony robbins called Awaken the Giant Within, that should give you some summary on human behavior
than read this book called "Man's Search for Meaning" by Dr Victor Farnkl.
and dont just read the summary and than come back to me. Once you read through the whole thing you will get the idea of how your mind works.
as for you, cite those resources that claim that gay is a birth defect.
Also the reason why I'm against homosexuality is because there is a big double standard out there
If I went to school and handed out gay party flyers and they tried to stop me, I would argue that I have freedom of speech.
Yet, If I handed out Bible Study flyers. They would SCREEm.... SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!!!!
if gay men kept it to themselfs and minded their own business I'd be ok with it, but these days they got these gay pride parades and shit which is just absurd.
sconoscuito
Banned
how about this one
I know a guy, he was a friend of my classmate who felt confused about his sexuality, he really felt he was gay but after he talked to few other men who put him on the right track he was normal again
he actually almost came out of the closet but he was educated at the right time about his masculinity and saved from crossing the line
his feelings about all the gayness dissapeared
according to him
I know a guy, he was a friend of my classmate who felt confused about his sexuality, he really felt he was gay but after he talked to few other men who put him on the right track he was normal again
he actually almost came out of the closet but he was educated at the right time about his masculinity and saved from crossing the line
his feelings about all the gayness dissapeared
according to him
sconoscuito said:
LOL...Another freeper, shoulda figured. LIke I said: Being gay increases your likelihood of getting AIDS and being a heterosexual living on the African continent does too. Now what?
I asked you to cite your sources of EMPIRICAL research documenting your claim that homosexuality is a "choice" and that it can be reversed by the same behavior modification techniques with which fat people can learn to avoid shoving eclairs in their mouths.
Instead, you cite a firewalker and a Holocaust survivor. Anthony "Firewalking" Robbins has not written anything about behavior modification and sexual identity and neither has Viktor Frankl, whose logotherapy I know a hell of a lot better than you, I'm sure.
Empirical research is statistical studies of a population's behavior. Now you said you had research. Produce it -- not the work of a new age goon and a philosopher -- unless you want me to pose Plato's "SYmposium" (see Aristophanes' speech) and Foucault as "empirical" research. *EYEROLL*
sconoscuito
Banned
you never showed your emperical research that shows that one is born gay
I'm telling you what a human mind is capable of doing which you aren't capable of accepting.
I'm telling you what a human mind is capable of doing which you aren't capable of accepting.
Deus Ex Machina
New member
it seems like sconoscuito knows a lot about being gay
hmm....................
hmm....................
