Ultimate Fat Loss Plan

[MrMakaveli]

The point is carbs are NON-ESSENTIAL nutrients. Train your body to run on fats and it will, however how long this will take is known.

Take muscle-growth, whats important carb levels? NO, NITROGEN (Read: Protein) levels. Once your in posotive nitrogen balance, what is more carbs going to do?

 

[anthrax]

BUMP for that amazing thread

BTW I wish I could hear a pro-carb diet expert....

 

[MS]

I am not exactly a pro-carb diet expert, but I will play devil's advocate here (briefly 'cause I'm a little short of time today).

The Masai average 3-5 liters of milk per day. Depending on whether it's goat or cow milk, this is around 180-200g of CARBS per day. The Masai children are also rather fond of honey. Nuff said on that point.

Weston Price (one of my all time favorite observers) also noted that the people of the Hunza valley were the most 'superb physical specimens' of any he had ever seen (including the Masai). Their good health and longevity are legendary.......they eat MAINLY whole grains, dairy and fruit, with meat eaten once or twice a week when it's available.

Both the Masai and the Hunzas eat far fewer calories (on average) than your average western couch potato, and they have times of feast and times of near famine.

Both the Masai and the Hunzas, aside from dietary changes noted by Price, also invariably changed their other lifestyle habits as well (ie less active/more sedentary). It is impossible to disentangle the relative contributions of dietary changes and lifestyle changes to their declining health.

One last quick point, none of these people were 'bodybuilders' and even though they were relatively tall and lean, they were not overly muscular, but again they didn't weight train so who knows?

I think all you can conclude from analyzing the diets and health of different ethnic groups is that humans are an incredibly adaptable species and can thrive on almost any diet as long as it's rich in whole, natural foods and they don't overeat! This is a VERY hard challenge that even the Masai are now failing at when faced with cheap, easy and very yummy carbohydrate based foods readily available.

I 100% agree that endurance athletes can benefit from an increase in relative fat intake, but I for one do not wish to look like a world class marathon runner out of Africa who runs on the smell of an oily rag. The proof is in the pudding, and today's pro bodybuilders are building unbelievably muscular physiques using lots of drugs, carbs, proteins AND fats (almost certainly at cost to their long term health). Once again it just goes to show how adaptable we are! I follow the middle ground because my long term health is important to me, so I stick to low GI, whole food carbs where ever possible (including post workout and excluding cheat days).

Of course, the bottom line for fat loss is to eat fewer calories than you burn, and it hardly matters if you burn carbs, or fat, or both during exercise as long as your total fat burned for the day (including time at rest) is in deficit.

 

[PwB]

MS, good points. I found also that the Masai women followed a different diet than the men. I agree Weston Price's information from the web site and Nutritional Degeneration are great sources. But Lyle recently brought up a good point that looking at peoples physical features isn't the only measure of how to gauge diet. Obviously the book makes a convincing point about limiting refined foods and following a more natural diet.

As you said all that really matters in the end is calories. Get enough protein, get your EFA's, create a calorie defecit and the body really figures out the rest if its low carb or high carb/low fat or low fat. Although I think the evidence is compelling that following a lower carbohydrate diet is better in terms of general health, ease of following the diet, blood sugar control, etc.

Another thing that is huge is carbohydrate refeeds to boost Leptin. Lyle McDonald has done a great job looking at all the research and helping bbers to apply this info to continue fat loss. Fat loading sux for bodybuilders except perhaps rite b4 a show going on stage, but for metabolism benefits there are none. Excess fat doesnt increase the fat burning pathways, a calorie and carb defecit does. Fat loading allows a 95+% absorption of fats and if calories are eaten in excess of those burned in a given day can lead to quite a bit of fat storage. Also there is no real rise in metabolism and no real rise in leptin in large high fat meals.

 

[PwB]

MS, good points. I found also that the Masai women followed a different diet than the men. I agree Weston Price's information from the web site and Nutritional Degeneration are great sources. But Lyle recently brought up a good point that looking at peoples physical features isn't the only measure of how to gauge diet. Obviously the book makes a convincing point about limiting refined foods and following a more natural diet.

As you said all that really matters in the end is calories. Get enough protein, get your EFA's, create a calorie defecit and the body really figures out the rest if its low carb or high carb/low fat or low fat. Although I think the evidence is compelling that following a lower carbohydrate diet is better in terms of general health, ease of following the diet, blood sugar control, etc.

Another thing that is huge is carbohydrate refeeds to boost Leptin. Lyle McDonald has done a great job looking at all the research and helping bbers to apply this info to continue fat loss. Fat loading sux for bodybuilders except perhaps rite b4 a show going on stage, but for metabolism benefits there are none. Excess fat doesnt increase the fat burning pathways, a calorie and carb defecit does. Fat loading allows a 95+% absorption of fats and if calories are eaten in excess of those burned in a given day can lead to quite a bit of fat storage. Also there is no real rise in metabolism and no real rise in leptin in large high fat meals. ALthough I did come across a study that showed high fat meals cause a raise in leptin greater than lower fat ones, the rise is miniscule and Lyle believed the effect would have no noticable impact on leptin levels during dieting.

 

[MS]

Yeah, both the Masai and the Hunzas 'fatten up' their young women before marriage so they will have optimal fertility. This is mainly done by increasing their dairy intake. Young men also go throuh a bizarre ritual where they sit around for ???6 or 8 weeks??? and stuff their faces with nothing but milk while sitting on their butts all day. The object of this ritual is to see who can gain THE MOST FAT during that period. The winner of this contest is held in very high esteem (if he doesn't die first!). These guys can gain HUGE amounts of fat this way in an incredibly short period of time, but several months after the competition they have lost all of the fat and are lean again thanks to drinking less milk and getting off their butts! Make no mistake about it....milk and dairy products can EASILY make you fat if you overconsume them, just like any other food.

Refeeds are the best thing since sliced bread for keeping metabolism high while dieting I find they work best if you have moderate carb intake to keep insulin sensitivity and glycogen synthase activity high so the refeeds can be used maximally (rather than a CKD where carb-ups are compromised by high fat/no carb diets). A high protein/low fat diet also seems to keep insulin sensitivity and glycogen synthase high. But any way you look at it, processed carbs are CRAP and should not be eaten in any great quantities by anyone interested in their long term health IMHO.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

Just thought I'd trhow in that I've tried fat loading and it did just what it says: loaded fat onto my stomach. Didn't do shit for metabolism. Pw you're right about it being beneficial only for shows.

 

[BigRedCat]

Bump...
I have been "cutting" for a month and I have gotten fatter so I am willing to tweak my diet. How many cals should I be eating to cut PwB? I am 5'11" @194 and around 21%blubber fat.