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Ultimate Fat Loss Plan

P

PwB

New member
This is a plan I developed from all my research on nutrition, it is radical but works faster than anything. It may sound crazy but it works. Ok, to start, Harvard Medical researcher Dr. Blackburn discovered in the 70's that a protein fast produced the greatest fat loss w/ no nitrogen/muscle losses. Basically a low calorie diet of quality proteins, no carbs and minimal fats from EFA's. This basically mimics starvation but w/ much less metabolic slowdown and no muscle loss.
Many also successfully use a Keto or CKD diet for fat loss, with higher calories and much more fat to reach their goals. In the abscence of carbs, fat is our primary energy source, and this is how our bodies are really meant to be run, using fat as its main energy source. Our bodies can only store a day or max 2days worth of glycogen in our muscles, but fat storage is unlimited, b/c it is our primary energy source. Recent research is even showing that glucose isnt the primary energy source for anaerobic activity, and a few recent studies w/ bodybuilders doing a high rep workout showed very little glycogen depleted from the used muscles and liver, and that as much as 70% of energy for muscle contraction came from Intramuscular triglycerides. Another point is that when the body recieves too much carbohydrate, it converts the excess into SATURATED FAT, our primary energy source for most activity. One other point is many bodybuilders are successfully implementing FAT LOADING into their precontest plan, instead of carb loading and the results they are getting are superior, w/ no water retention. Ask bodybuilders like John Meadows or Paul Burton who swear by it. I can explain much more but here is the plan. Anyone spinning their wheels not losing fat may wish to try it. (1 more point, even Lyle McDonand pointed that about Leptin, total calories are what count and high carbs arent necessary, so it can be an all protein day if desired, probably w/ better results)

Lift 2-3x a week, lower reps and heavier weights, such as a 5x5 program.
Sprint intervals 2-4x a week. 5 min warm-up and 30sec all out sprint, 60-90seconds walking/jogging. Start w/ 6 sets and increase 1 each week.

On lifting days. Lean Body Mass x 8.
50% protein/50% fat.
this allows 1g protein per lb. LBM.
Example for someone with 200lbs lean body mass.
200 * 8 = 1600 calories
1600 / 2 = 800 calories
800 / 4 = 200g protein
800 / 9 = 88g fat
this will be 2-3x a week.

On the other days eat the same amount of protein, but less fat, except for 6 fish oil capsules a day to meet EFA needs. Basically lean protein and fish oils. This ratio should be 75% protein, 25% fat.

Eat 2-4 meals a day, I eat 2, every 12 hours, allowing more time to be in a fat burning state. Get AT LEAST 50% protein needs in post-workout meal on workout days, 75% is better. For example, w/ 2 meals a day get 75% protein 1 meal after workout, 25% other meal.

Food mostly from red meat, but also pork, turkey, chicken, eggs, fish, etc. Try to stick w/ mainly food, few to no shakes. I basically eat 93% lean ground beef, chicken, and ostrich.

Keep carbs below 30g a day, preferabbly at 0 and only from green vegetables.

Instead of carb loading every few days, the higher calorie days will be more of a fat loading day. It takes time to adapt to the diet but once you do you will have more energy and muscles will fill out like during a carb load. The reason so many feel like shit is b/c no one allows their bodies to become fat adapted. W/ carb loads all the time and people abandoning the diet, people dont build up the enzymes necessary to handle fats well as our main energy source. But this is how we lived form 100's of thousands of years. The most successful marathon runner ever was around during I believe the 70's, and lived in a small african village. He lived his whole life on no carbs b/c he hunted and ate all his food. He had more endurance and never hit the wall b/c fat provides almost unlimited energy, and the wall comes from glycogen depetion form the small amount of carbs our bodies store. Eating like a hunter is more natural and I believe can give a more muscular, healthy body than any other modern, made up eating plan. Also, the benefit of most food after a workout has been shown in modern research to be superior in terms of less nitrogen loss and better protein synthesis, a protein pulse of huge protein intakes after a workout, similar to eating after a hunt. This is the way our ancestors ate, this is the way predatory animals eat, and if you try it u will want to eat like this too when u see th results it produces.
 
Not to rag on you, because I think the diet sounds kind of cool.. I mean, I'd love to live on pure protein and fat... yumm.. go to mcdonalds and toss away the bun, but if you look back to 100's of years ago, I don't think our ancestres were very healthy, people live a lot longer today because they eat a varied diet.
Less Cholesterol, less shit to clog your arteries(well really there is more... unless you actually eat healthy).Mind you, lots of people abuse their food intake and eat a lot of shit...
I wouldn't mind giving this diet a whirl for a few months, but I don't think it would be the best way to live for 20 years.
My 2 cents, please don't be offended
Thanks
 
no offense at all, and I totally understand your skepticism. If you have some time i'd like you to check out some information.http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm this is a link to a book called "The Cholesterol Myth", it completely destroys the myths of cholesterol and saturated fat causing heart disease and clogging arteries. If you are interested enough, read the book, if not the top 10 myths are listed and shattered, giving a general idea of all the BS we've been fed our whole lives about fat and cholesterol. Just a few notes, 80% of cholesterol in the body is produced by the liver, diet only impacts 20% of production, and in studies where cholesterol intake is lowered, there were more deaths overall to these people, as well as a much greater risk of violent behavior, suicide, and depression as cholesterol is necessary for mental health as well as production of hormones in the body.

Another interesting tidbit, cholesterol isn't a fat but waxy alcohol vital to our health, and is released to repair damage that is caused to arteries from insulin levels. Insulin is what causes damage, and shortens ALL animals lifespans. Dr. Cruz in the 70's dripped insulin into a dogs vein, and after weeks it became COMPLETELY blocked, several subsequent studies were done w/ the same outcome. Too much insulin is what is deadly, causes heart disease, diabetes, and regulated lifespan, among other things. Research even shows a person is 70% more likely to have a heart attack after a high carb meal, and NOT a high fat meal. Also, the blockage that takes place is only 26% Saturated fat, the remaining is Polyunsaturated fat, which is a whole other story. Too much Polyunsaturates are damaging as well (Vegetable oils are terrible).

An example is the Massai, who's diet consists of red meat, blood, and a little milk, they avg. over 300g fat per day in their diet, with high cholesterol levels. They have no heart disease and have a life expectancy equal to Americans, despite not having modern medicine.
Also check out "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston Price, you can get tons of info at
www.westonaprice.org , the information is incredible about how the health decay that takes place when large amounts of carbohydrates are added to the diet of all societies. People eating a natural, primitive diet enjoyed superior health, and had no obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc. The main reason deaths were more common was b/c life was more dangerous, (hunting animals, nature, etc) The books main focus is the dental health of societies around the world, including primitive tribes, etc. Despite NO dentists, no tooshbrush, groups eating a natural diet had perfect teeth, clean, no crowding, no decay, etc. These same people eating a western diet had crowded, rotting teeth, etc. Not only is this all documented in a 700+ page book, but there are 1000's of photos as examples.
By the way, McDonald's burgers with no bun aren't an option b/c soy and wheat are added to them to make them weigh more, as they are cheaper than meat so a burger from McDonalds minus the bun isn't low carbs, and has harmful soy and wheat in it. Same is true for all fast food chains.

I've spent the last few years doing indepent research on nutrition, and wouldn't be recommending this, or following it myself if I didn't know this is the way we are meant to eat. If you have any other questions or doubts, let me know. I'm just trying to help and want people to know the truth b/c the information that we are taught on how to eat is sickening, its all given b/c of other peoples agenda's, mainly to make money and make the packaged food industry, agriculture, and doctors rich. Humans aren't meant to be as unhealthy and obese as we are now, how come everyone is so fat concience yet so fat as well, b/c we aren't taking care of our bodies and feeding them the way they are meant to be. And Yes, I do realize we are much less active now than we used to be, which is why exercise is mandatory for a successful fat loss plan.
 
no offense at all, and I totally understand your skepticism. If you have some time i'd like you to check out some information.http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm this is a link to a book called "The Cholesterol Myth", it completely destroys the myths of cholesterol and saturated fat causing heart disease and clogging arteries. If you are interested enough, read the book, if not the top 10 myths are listed and shattered, giving a general idea of all the BS we've been fed our whole lives about fat and cholesterol. Just a few notes, 80% of cholesterol in the body is produced by the liver, diet only impacts 20% of production, and in studies where cholesterol intake is lowered, there were more deaths overall to these people, as well as a much greater risk of violent behavior, suicide, and depression as cholesterol is necessary for mental health as well as production of hormones in the body.

Another interesting tidbit, cholesterol isn't a fat but waxy alcohol vital to our health, and is released to repair damage that is caused to arteries from insulin levels. Insulin is what causes damage, and shortens ALL animals lifespans. Dr. Cruz in the 70's dripped insulin into a dogs vein, and after weeks it became COMPLETELY blocked, several subsequent studies were done w/ the same outcome. Too much insulin is what is deadly, causes heart disease, diabetes, and regulated lifespan, among other things. Research even shows a person is 70% more likely to have a heart attack after a high carb meal, and NOT a high fat meal. Also, the blockage that takes place is only 26% Saturated fat, the remaining is Polyunsaturated fat, which is a whole other story. Too much Polyunsaturates are damaging as well (Vegetable oils are terrible).

An example is the Massai, who's diet consists of red meat, blood, and a little milk, they avg. over 300g fat per day in their diet, with high cholesterol levels. They have no heart disease and have a life expectancy equal to Americans, despite not having modern medicine.
Also check out "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston Price, you can get tons of info at
www.westonaprice.org , the information is incredible about how the health decay that takes place when large amounts of carbohydrates are added to the diet of all societies. People eating a natural, primitive diet enjoyed superior health, and had no obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc. The main reason deaths were more common was b/c life was more dangerous, (hunting animals, nature, etc) The books main focus is the dental health of societies around the world, including primitive tribes, etc. Despite NO dentists, no tooshbrush, groups eating a natural diet had perfect teeth, clean, no crowding, no decay, etc. These same people eating a western diet had crowded, rotting teeth, etc. Not only is this all documented in a 700+ page book, but there are 1000's of photos as examples.
By the way, McDonald's burgers with no bun aren't an option b/c soy and wheat are added to them to make them weigh more, as they are cheaper than meat so a burger from McDonalds minus the bun isn't low carbs, and has harmful soy and wheat in it. Same is true for all fast food chains.

I've spent the last few years doing indepent research on nutrition, and wouldn't be recommending this, or following it myself if I didn't know this is the way we are meant to eat. If you have any other questions or doubts, let me know. I'm just trying to help and want people to know the truth b/c the information that we are taught on how to eat is sickening, its all given b/c of other peoples agenda's, mainly to make money and make the packaged food industry, agriculture, and doctors rich. Humans aren't meant to be as unhealthy and obese as we are now, how come everyone is so fat concience yet so fat as well, b/c we aren't taking care of our bodies and feeding them the way they are meant to be. And Yes, I do realize we are much less active now than we used to be, which is why exercise is mandatory for a successful fat loss plan.
 
"The Masai [of Kenya] drink 'only' half a gallon of [whole] milk each day...Their parties are sheer orgies of meat; on such occasions four to ten pounds of meat [eaten] per person is not unusual, according to Professor [George] Mann [of Vanderbilt University in Nashville, TN, USA]. If the diet-heart idea were correct, coronary heart disease would be epidemic in Kenya. But Professor Mann found that the Masai do not die from heart disease - although they might die from laughter if they heard about the campaign against foods containing cholesterol and saturated fat. But this was not the only surprise. The cholesterol of the Masai tribesmen was not sky-high as Mann had expected; it was the lowest ever measured in the world, about 50% lower than the value of most Americans."

taken from a nice review of "The Cholesterol Myth"http://www.health911.com/bookreviews/bookr1.htm
 
sounds interesting... but a couple of questions -

1. What results have you seen with this approach? Both short-term and long-term?

2. What about maintenance of bulking diets? How are they different?

3. How long does it take for the 'enzymes' to estbalish themselves to allow me to live w/o carbs comfortably?

4. 8x BW is pretty low caloric intake... Why?
 
Thats some great information! Thanks for posting it. My only other major concern regarding this diet is digestive track health. This diet is suppoed to consist mainly of meat and fat which doesnt have any fibre in it. Don't you think it would be a good idea to get at least some fibrous food in your diet to help maintain digestive health and to help prevent cancer(antioxidents)
Thanks
Ryan
 
DrBones, I agree fiber is helpful in elimination, which is why I say 30g carbs a day from fibrous greens. Consider 1cup broccoli, for example, has only 4g carbs and 2g fiber, so has only 2g carbohydrates since fiber isn't absorbed, which allows for a decent quantity of greens. Although they can help, they aren't necessary. The Inuit/Eskimos eat a high fat, high protein, no carb diet w/ no vegetable matter and have perfect health and elimination as well. I can go on about other socities on a meat only diet but just know they aren't necessary. Stefannson documented their diet and lifestyle in a book called "The Fat Of The Land", and even subjected himself and a collegue to a MEAT ONLY diet for 1 year, after living w/ the Inuit for a period of time on only meat. They were kept and fed in Bellville Hospital and had several Doctors from various fields observe and test their health. At the end of the year the were perfectly healthy, cholesterol, blood profile, elimination, energy, etc. were perfect despite them eating a diet of fatty meat ONLY (80% fat/20% protein).
Again, eat the vegetables, but I'm just making a note to their necessity. Also, too much fiber interferes w/ nutrient absorption and vitamin absorption b/c food travels too fast through the digestive tract. Interestingly, most people believe meat is hard to digest, but it is actually the easiest to digest, vegetables are actually the hardes to digest. Ask Dr. Wolfgang Lutz, author of another incredible book, "Life Without Bread", he treated over 10,000 patients w/ countless Digestive Tract disorders, with a huge success rate using a low carb diet.
Even Dr. Ellis, a great Dr. who actually provided Dr. Atkins w/ the information on Ketosis, says fiber is over-rated, I dont know if I completely agree, but it's an interesting concept. BTW, Dr. Atkins DOES NOT really follow his diet, he admits to being a carb addict and when they ate dinner together he ate his own potato as well as Dr. Ellis's, interesting.

CrimsonKing, I follow the plan on and off recently b/c a lot of crap has been going on in my life. Starting monday i'm back on track. I can tell you that when I do follow the plan strictly, w/ NO cheating the results are incredible. I SHOULD be losing muscle but I just look leaner and bigger (most likely b/c increased definition). I will admit, I am VERY resistant to fat loss, I have every diet book imaginable and have tried them all, w/ limited success. I'm 6'3", currently 222lbs. I have weighed as much as 260lbs when I played football in college. All I can say is people comment constantly about how my face is looking defined now, i'm looking much leaner, better, etc. as well as looking bigger, which is odd w/ so few calories, but i'm telling the truth. I don't use steroids and don't have great genetics, which explains my obsession w/ learning all I can about diet and exercise, as these are the keys to having a great body (mostly diet)
The time it takes for the enzymes to become efficient is very individual. Dr. Dipasquale Says it only takes 2 weeks, but for most that's bullshit. It may only take a few weeks but can last as long as a few months. Consider your body has been given carbs as its main energy its whole life, it does take time for complete adaption to take place. If there is a problem adapting carbs can be lowered over a few weeks, such as dropping 50g per week over several weeks to make the effects less dramatic. Basically everyone goes from high carbs to almost no carbs, some are fine but many believe they have no energy b/c they took away their fuel source, what they're USED TO running on, carbs. Since fat burning enzymes aren't efficient, and the body isn't primed to run on fat, the body has no energy. Once these processes take place the body runs better than normal, with increased endurance as studies are showing. Problem is very few give the adaptions enough time and ASSUME they have no energy w/out carbs. Same holds true for all studies on exercise, they are ALL done on carb adapted people, and have yet to be done on the fat adapted. Interestingly, even in the carb adapted most energy is coming from fat for contractions, imagine for those who are fat adapted.

For adding muscle the main factor is increasing calories, from both protein and fat. I do believe to add size more protein must be eaten, but so should more fat. Muscle mass can increase even w/out the presence of high insulin levels, which are more anabolic to fat cells than muscle cells. Growth Hormone is Anabolic to muscle and catabolic to fat, a much better hormonal environment. The best ways to increase GH besides injections are from low carbohyrdrates and supplements like Glutamine. I think 1.5-2g protein per lb. bodyweight is ideal for mass gains, as well as at least 50% fat, mainly saturated fat since it is our bodies main energy source, increases testosterone, etc. And a good amount of fish oils is also beneficial. I also think most people spend too much time on "shaping" exercises and machines, and that the basics ALWAYS build the most muscle, giving you biggest bang for your buck. Unless you have a very muscular physique, with thick muscles, don't waste your time and stick with the basics such as squats, deadlifts, chins, rows, bench, military press, etc. Heavy weight w/ lower reps seems to alway produce the most muscular bodies.

Overall calories do count, which is why I recommend lower calories for cutting. Metabolic rate will slow to a degree regardless of how much calories are reduced, but will only slow so much. They will drop 20-25% below baseline and will generally stop there. Protein has an advantage to keeping your metabolic rate up. Also, supplementing with Iodine and cooking w/ coconut oil will help your thyroid to keep fat loss going. Calorie levels should be individual, but they still count. This is the main downfall of Atkins, he says eat unlimited fat and protein and lose all your fat, bullshit. This mainly came from the idea fat and protein is more filling b/c of the release of CCK, telling you to stop eating, but not everyone gets this signal, so they overeat and dont lose any weight. The calorie thing comes from myself and a lot of clients who need to restrict calories significantly to lose fat fast. Most have desk jobs and don't want to work out for more than 30-45 min, so calorie cutting is necessary as well as intense, anaerobic workouts.
 
Check out this interview

The information presented by Dr. Greg Ellis flies in the face of everything that the American Heart Association has been saying about a good, healthy diet. Dr. Ellis makes some very interesting arguments. If you think carbohydrates are the best fuel for muscles and help them grow the fastest, think again!

Al: Dr. Ellis, is there really any debate at all? Everyone knows that carbohydrates are what bodybuilders need, right?

Ellis: Despite what everyone thinks, carbohydrates are not the preferred energy source for the body. Fat is. The common belief that carbohydrates are used most often and provide the best calories for powering muscle contraction is erroneous.

Al: For discussion’s sake, I’m going to buy that argument temporarily. So tell me, why is everyone so misinformed about the role of carbohydrates and fats?

Ellis: Well, there’s been substantial debate about the role of fat and carbohydrates in muscle contraction for years. In the late 1800’s the prevailing view was that carbohydrates alone fueled working muscles. In the first 25 years of the 20th century, research supported this view.


However, research since then has shown conflicting results. Zuntz found that muscle used both fats and carbohydrates, and others confirmed this. During starvation (which some ill-informed bodybuilders actually begin to approach during that last four weeks before a contest), fats provide the bulk of energy for muscle, both at rest and during exercise.


Fat, as fuel, is found in the bloodstream, where it is joined with a protein called albumin. This complex was named free fatty acids. Free fatty acids are one of the primary sources of fat that the body uses as fuel.

Al: Where do the current terms "glycogen-loading" and "muscle sugars" fit in then?

Ellis: In the late 1960’s, Scandinavian scientists showed that glycogen is important in endurance exercise and that glycogen is the body’s storage form for glucose (blood sugar). Several studies revealed that, when glycogen stores in the muscle become depleted, exhaustion follows.


The Scandinavian scientists studied the effect of diet modification on endurance exercise. They put athletes on three different diets. The first was a normal diet of fats and carbohydrates. The second and third diets began with three days of protein and fat, but with no carbohydrates. Then, during the next three days, athletes in one group ate loads of carbohydrates and the other group stayed with the high-fat and protein diet. All groups exercised on indoor stationary cycles to exhaustion. The high-fat and protein diet group came in last. They rode for the shortest time. The mixed diet group was second, but the group who stoked up on the carbohydrates rode the longest. The researchers claimed that a person’s ability to do exercise is dependent upon the glycogen level of the muscles. These studies have formed the basis for the glycogen-loading theory.

Flawed Research

Al: Excuse me, Dr. Ellis, but what you have just told me seems to refute your thesis about the importance of fats as fuels.

Ellis: The problem is that these studies suffered a flawed design. They did not consider the long-term effects of the high-fat/high-protein diet. And further, like the blind leading the blind, almost no studies since these in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s, have experimented with different designs and protocols. So, even though there is continued evidence supporting these original conclusions that are based on the flawed design, researchers are unable to uncover the energy-enhancing effects of the high-fat/high-protein dietary mix because they have not tested it! The continued use of the flawed design leads to questionable and limited results.

Al: Well, glycogen loading and the need for lots of carbohydrates seem to have gained universal acceptance, your views notwithstanding.

Ellis: Yes, the idea is universally accepted by athletes, coaches, and scientists. These groups are even more convinced today of this than they were back then when the original studies were published. In 1977, the Senate Select Committee on Nutrition published their conclusions and, of course, the final report suggested that Americans should eat more fruits, vegetables, and grains while reducing their intake of meat, eggs, and dairy products. They advocated that carbohydrate intake provide 60% of the daily calorie allotment and that complex carbohydrates form the base of that 60%. So, fueled by the desire to minimize heart disease (this is why the committee presented their findings), athletes and scientists have been giving up fat as if it were poison.

Al: Well, isn’t it? Isn’t it bad to have too much fat cruising through our systems?

Ellis: Sure, too much. But that is not coming from eating fat if one is, also, at the same time, consuming a low-carbohydrate diet. It is actually a mixed diet, both high in fat and carbohydrate, that leads to high fat levels in both the blood and in the body fat. The reason for this is that the high carbohydrate diet stimulates the conversion of carbohydrate into fat.

The muscles can control how much of the two prevalent fuels, fats and carbohydrates, that they use. The body has a complicated biochemical control system with pathways that are now well understood. The pathway discoveries have been made in the last 30 years. The major finding that should interest you and your readers is that fat use controls the rate of carbohydrate use. This is not guesswork, but a biochemical fact.


If fat burns as fuel, then carbohydrate burning slows. This is controlled through a complex enzymatic process. Both fats and carbohydrates have their own enzyme systems that convert fat and/or carbohydrates to an end product used to make ATP (adenosine triphosphate), the chemical used to provide energy for the cell’s metabolism.

Al: Could you explain that in more detail?

Ellis: Muscles produce energy from food. Essentially, muscles take cake or meat or whatever and convert it to carbon dioxide and water. Along the way, chemicals are made that use up oxygen in the process of making ATP. This ATP production takes place, of course, during the enzyme action in which food is converted to carbon dioxide and water. Some enzymes are regulatory or rate-limiting. They act just like a bend or pinch in a water hose. Bend the hose and less water runs through.

Al: I get the point. Continue, please.

Ellis: Like the pinched hose, the flows through the different carbohydrate and fat paths affect each other. As fats move along their path of use, production of a chemical called citrate (an end product of fat burning) increases. The citrate attacks a regulatory enzyme in the pathway that breaks down carbohydrates into a usable source of fuel. The net effect of the action of citrate is to slow down the movement of carbohydrates through their metabolic pathway. It’s just that simple. As more fat burns, less carbohydrate burns.


So citrate regulates the muscle’s choice of fuel. In reality, it is much more complex than this as there are a number of regulators acting on multiple metabolic pathways. Many other chemicals can dramatically slow or stop the breakdown of glycogen in liver and muscle. They can slow the rate of blood glucose entry into the muscles.


The fuel used by each muscle fiber sends a message to the energy depots throughout your body. This is accomplished through hormones. Of most importance is that the level of blood glucose and fat in the blood signals the liver and fat cells either to send more or less fuel to the muscles. It’s a constant supply and demand situation and, remember, fat use in muscle controls carbohydrate use. And this further affects not only muscle, but the whole body.

Performance Fuel?

Al: So fat use controls carbohydrate use; that still doesn’t really tell me that carbohydrates are not better than fat for superior performance.

Ellis: OK, most athletes and scientists believe that exercise endurance is governed by how much glycogen is in their muscles. But how do they explain the fact that muscle exhaustion can occur despite having ample glycogen supplies in the muscles? That is, plenty of glycogen is left, yet exhaustion takes place. Furthermore, glycogen depletion affects only athletes who train nonstop or compete in events lasting more than several hours. For most sports performances, for weight lifting and bodybuilding routines, glycogen depletion is not a factor in muscle fatigue, not at all.


Let’s look at some specific evidence. In 1986, scientists studied the effects of a difficult weight training workout on the fuel used by muscle. Nationally ranked competitive bodybuilders did five sets of fronts squats, five sets of back squats, five sets of leg presses, and five sets of leg extensions. Each set lasted about 30 seconds, with one minute rest between sets. The weights were heavy enough so that ten repetitions proved to be their maximum effort. That is, each set was to momentary muscular failure, where the successful execution of another repetition proved impossible.


It was an extremely difficult program, and the blood lactic acid levels were sky high. By their own admission, it was the hardest program any of them had ever undertaken.


To the surprise of the scientists, muscle glycogen decreased only 40% from the resting values (this was in the thigh muscles). Where did the fuel for energy come from? The immediate energy sources are available, including ATP, which is probably not stored, and some creatine phosphate. However, the amounts of these are very small and barely account for enough energy production to meet the energy demands of one set of one of the exercises, if that. Glucose shunted from the liver supplies some energy. However, this study showed that there was not a significant uptake by the muscle of liver-tagged glucose. The authors were forced to conclude that a large portion of energy came from a source other than carbohydrates.

Energy Source?

Al: And now for the $65,000 question, where did it come from?

Ellis: The $65,000 answer is that it came from from intra-muscular triglycerides. Fats inside the muscle cells have received very little attention. Most body fat is stored in the subcutaneous layer. Some is stored in other sites, especially around internal organs. But, approximately 0.5-1% is stored within the muscles as intra-muscular triglycerides.

Al: That isn’t much.

Ellis: Yes, but it is quickly broken down to acetyl-CoA, which is the chemical that leads to the manufacture of ATP. As intra-muscular fat burns, carbohydrate burning slows. The key is this: as free fatty acid levels in the blood increase, this source of fat enters the muscle and is shunted into storage within the muscle as triglyceride. Fat, from inside the thigh muscles and from the blood, is what supplied the extra fuel for the bodybuilders’ leg program.

I have also performed an intricate experiment with rats treated with estrogen, which sets in motion an ability to supply and burn more fat for fuel. The rats ran for two hours on a treadmill, and the results showed that they used much more fat than carbohydrate for fuel.

Al: What can one do to make the body burn more fat and save glycogen? Certainly we shouldn’t take estrogen?

Ellis: Well, women in endurance events might be wise to select events that were timed with their estrogen peak if that were possible. Remember, the body prefers fat over carbohydrates as a source of fuel. It only burns carbohydrates as a supplement to fat use. Most scientists, however, believe it is the other way round. Unfortunately, they have not done their homework. Carbohydrates make up the difference when fat is not immediately available or if the enzymes for processing fat are too low in quantity. That is the critical point – are the enzymes for fat use at maximum levels.

Two things help. Training is the first because training conditions the muscle to burn fat by increasing the enzymes. This is like being on auto pilot. The enzymes that burn fat increase, and the body also changes its hormone balance so that more fat gets to the muscles from the fat cells. And, fewer carbohydrates are used because fat burning spares glucose and glycogen use.


Of course, the second thing to do, in addition to the training program, is to eat fat.


Eat Fat!

Al: Now wait a minute; that seems like an awfully strange idea. We get enough hidden fats in our foods anyway, don’t we? Do we have to go out of our way to chew the fat?

Ellis: The foods you eat determine the types of fuels you use. If you eat fat, you burn fat, and if you eat carbohydrates, you burn more carbohydrates. Everything re-organizes from the smallest parts of the muscle cell to the larger parts, including the output of hormones that influence your whole body. Four major hormones influence fuel use: insulin, cortisol, glucagon, and growth hormone. They are anabolic (build-up) or catabolic (break-down). Glucose, derived from dietary carbohydrates, also has a direct effect in determining whether fuel is partitioned into storage or burned. Glucose has a direct effect on all of the enzymes involved in the conversion of glucose into fat with its subsequent storage in the body fat depots. Further, it directly affects the expression of genes that are involved in stimulating the production of the enzymes throughout the body that convert dietary carbohydrate into body fat.


Insulin is anabolic, but all the way. This means that insulin makes you fatter while, at the same time, also stimulating muscle growth. Insulin fluctuates, and the type of food you eat determines the amount of insulin released as well.


Guess what? Carbohydrates push insulin up. With a chronically high carbohydrate intake, you have a chronically high insulin response. This does not do your body fat level any favors. While it might be OK for your muscles, this makes it difficult for your fat cells to release fat to your blood. The primary function of insulin is to control the release of fat from the fat cells, not to clear the blood of glucose, as most scientists believe. High insulin levels stop the release of fat, and low insulin levels permit a rapid release of free fatty acid from the adipose tissue.


Growth hormone is anabolic to muscle, catabolic to fat. Protein and fat diets increase the output of growth hormone. And guess what? High carbohydrate diets lower growth hormone output. However, growth hormone as a normal hormone in the body is permissive to body balance in terms of muscle and fat quantities in your body. Changing the amount of hormones artificially, like growth hormone (or insulin), inextricably alters this balance.

Al: Bodybuilders seem to disregard logical statements like that though. If you tell them that insulin and growth hormone are anabolic to muscle, some of the less intelligent ones will take them artificially, regardless of health risks. So what should the smarter ones do?

Ellis: Bodybuilders strive to increase muscle mass and lower body fat. Yes, you can reduce fat with dieting, but you almost always lose muscle too. A balance between calorie reduction and changes in hormone levels through dieting and exercise is the goal. At any level of calorie intake, you’ll have more building, or maintenance, of muscle, and loss (or no net gain) of fat on a high-protein, high-fat diet compared to a high-carbohydrate diet.

Al: Yikes! That statement is going to turn some heads.

Ellis: It shouldn’t if people look at the decades-old research and results. We knew, scientifically, as early as 1950 that a high-carbohydrate diet stimlated the conversion of carbohydrate to fat with its subsequent storage in body fat depots. Observations by farmers were that high-grain diets fattened their animals. This observation, by farmers, occurred much earlier than the scientific observations that were uncovered from 1950 on.

Later, with the glycogen depletion studies, athletes on high-protein and high-fat diets did have reduced performance, but the study lasted only 7 days. The athletes were simply unable to use the fat supplied to the muscles because their fat-burning enzyme levels were so low. There were not enough enzymes in the fat burning pathway to process the fat now made available to muscle both by the diet and by the release of the free fatty acids from the adipose tissue. The athletes couldn’t process fat and the alternative fuel -- carbohydrate -- was drained out of the muscles by the previous 7 days low-carbohydrate diet. As a result, fuel requirements of the exercising muscle were unable to be met.

Al: So what would have happened if the bodybuilders remained on the high-protein/high-fat diet for more than a week?

Ellis: I have some of the answers in my research. After one week on a high-fat diet, a group of rats ran 8% longer than rats on a high-carbohydrate diet. After another four weeks on the diet, the high-fat group ran 33% longer than the carbohydrate loaded rats.


The run times were on the order of 40 minutes, which would normally have required more glycogen as compared to runs lasting more than an hour. Therefore, the results of the study are even more impressive because of the short run times. It’s funny -- the glycogen levels stored in the muscles naturally fell in the rats on the high-fat diet. However, this did not adversely affect performance. To the contrary, performance improved -- a lot.


In another study, rats were adapted to the high-fat diet for 12 weeks. At the end of that time, a treadmill endurance test resulted in the high-fat fed rats running 68% longer than another group of rats fed a high-carbohydrate diet.

20-Week Minimum

Al: So what should athletes do in your view?

Ellis: Bodybuilders should avoid mindless brain washing and should give fats a chance. It takes time. Other studies suggest that it may take 20 weeks for the human metabolism to adapt fully to a high-fat diet. The maximum performance-improving capacity will only begin to be realized after an adaptation period exceeding several weeks. Alaskan sled dogs perform very poorly on carbohydrate diets. In fact, their racing times are best when they eat at least 32% of their calories as protein and the rest as fat! We must ask why carbohydrate diets decreased their performance.

Al: I suppose the dogs are not talking. I can’t believe you’d issue a simple recommendation to radically increase the consumption of fat. What about heart disease?

Ellis: The notion that cholesterol and fat are the primary cause of heart disease is one of the greatest scientific deceptions of our time. A discussion of this topic requires a more detailed exploration. In the case of bodybuilders, they are at an extremely low risk of heart disease due to their vigorous and regular exercise. Their blood fat levels are very low. A recent study of bodybuilders who ate a diet thought to put them at risk for heart disease showed that, despite the diet, they showed no signs of risk at all. And you know what else? Those bodybuilders who ate a high-fat diet had 7 pounds more muscle on their body than another group of bodybuilders who had ingested a high-carbohydrate diet!

Al: What about cholesterol levels?

Ellis: Less than 5% of the American population really have a cholesterol problem, and this is a medical problem; these are sick people. People who are not sick do not have the problem, and diet is simply not a part of the problem. The fat in food affects only a small percent of people in terms of having a significant effect on their blood cholesterol. And blood cholesterol levels for more than 95% of the population are not, in anyway, related to the rate of heart disease. Eggs and beef may be high in cholesterol, but for the vast majority of people, especially bodybuilders, these foods do not raise cholesterol. For example, a recent study showed that people with high cholesterol who went on a diet only of rib-eye steaks, lowered their cholesterol significantly. Cholesterol values dropped from a pre-diet level of 263 mg to 189 mg. Low-carbohydrate eating always leads to a decrease in cholesterol and triglyceride levels.


I don’t think that bodybuilders, or anyone else in regular training, need to worry about cholesterol, unless the values begin to exceed 275 mg. Most other people could easily maintain normal, healthy levels by reducing their overweight, over-fat condition.


I think the threshold for dietary carbohydrate reduction to make a positive effect in increasing muscle mass and decreasing body fat begins when carbohydrate intake is reduced to a level lower than 25% of total daily calorie intake. I believe that this level is still too high to realize optimal benefit. I also do not know if 0% carbohydrate intake is more effective than, say, 10% or 15% of daily carbohydrate intake as a caloric percentage of the whole day’s calorie intake.


Many people argue against a high-protein diet as dangerous to the function of the liver and kidneys. There is absolutely no research to support this belief, and in fact, there is an abundance of research indicating that a high-protein diet is very effective in improving liver function. Too often, in the area of nutrition, many studies are don on sick individuals, and there are too few studies on athletes.

Al: Do you have any final piece of advice for our readers?

Ellis: I realize that a lot of this is different from anything your readers have read or heard. However, the risks are non-existent, and the benefits are high. I wish bodybuilders and other athletes would experiment for an appreciable time with a higher fat diet and get off this ultra-high carbohydrate diet thing. If they are concerned with their blood fat and cholesterol levels, they can monitor them. I do know that a diet somewhat higher in fats and proteins will not only make your muscles grow faster, but will also give you better endurance. Give it a try.

Al: Thanks, Dr. Ellis, this surely was interesting.
 
Omega, I understand your skepticism too but the diet isn't scary, in fact societies have lived for thousands of years on similiar diets. The reason it sounds scary is our whole lives we've been fed a bunch of bullshit about fat, cholesterol, heart disease, obesity, etc. Its all been a scam to make certain industries rich and unfortunately almost everyone buys into it. Being an independent thinker I learned from other experts as well as my own research as to what our natural diet consisted of, and it always consisted of higher levels of fat. People would search to have fattier foods, often times leaner meats were discarded for fattier pieces. Please read in detail my previous posts as well as links to other sites/books and read for yourself. Look at both sides of the arguement before making judgements. Everyone takes traditional knowledge and just accepts it, never opposing or questioning it. The idea of fat/cholesterol and heart disease is one of the biggest scams in history. The initial research was done on selected societies, several were ommitted b/c they didn't support the theory of fat/cholestorol causing heart disease. The Masai have the lowest levels of cholesterol in the world and eat a high fat (300g fat a day avg) high cholesterol diet, w/ a long life span. It isn't genetics b/c when they are fed a western diet they quicky get the same health problems we do.
All this information goes directly against what we've always believed, and this makes people uncomfortable. Regardless, just b/c u are scared of or don't believe something, doesn't make it false. Everyone is entitles to an opinion, but the facts will always remain regardless of what you believe.
I read the other diet and believe it has some benefits. I'm not a big fan of eating a lot of fruit for several reasons. Fruit is seasonal in most parts of the world so wouldn't be available year round. Fruit is generally higher in fructose than it was thousands of years ago, since it was bred to be this way by farmers. It is sweeter and much less healthy than it used to be. An example is a crab apple, that is a fruit in its natural form. Fructose is hands down dangerous and unhealthy. It raises triglyceride levels significantly and causes a host of other problems that I can provide for you if anyone is interested.
The diet is also low in fat, a low fat diet is almost always deficient in essential fatty acids. EFA's are MANDATORY for health and fat loss. Theres more emphasis placed on so called "healthy" fruit and vegetables than on EFA's, w/ no emphasis placed on the right fats. Also, a low fat diet is correlated w/ lower testosterone levels (below 20%) and higher fat diet (40%) shows higher testosterone levels. Fiber is helpful but too much doesnt allow nutrient and vitamin/mineral absorption as I got into in detail in a previous post.
The most healthy diet should place emphasis on what we need in order to survive:
Protein
Essential Fatty Acids
certain Vitamins/Minerals
Water

Again, red meat is the ONLY food that exclusively supplies everything we need for perfect health. along with water. Emphasis must also be placed on getting the right EFA ratios (4:1 to 1:1 ratio of n-3 to n-6) which is why Fish oils are beneficial, especially over flax as flax requires a conversion to utilize the n-3's, which can be a problem especially for older individuals. And AGAIN, even a slight excess of carbs is stored as SATURATED FAT. WHY would our body do this if saturated fat is so unhealthy?????
QUESTION, DOES ANYONE THINK BURNING BODYFAT IS UNHEALTHY???? I doubt it, well when we are losing weight/bodyfat we are burning saturated fat (and ketones if carbs are low enough), eating saturated fat causes this same burning, it is our fuel of choice, I didn't decide this, nature did.
 
hey pwb dosnet your metablosim slow down on this 2 meals a day plan? and what do you eat in these 2 or 3 meals? im 130 so how much fat should i be taking in ? and protein? and what about carb ups? not a once a week cheat..? also i dont understand why we should lower the fa ton days 3 and 4 and days 1 and 2 kkeep it 50%
 
Missy, metabolism is slowed down based on food intake on an hourly basis. There have been studies and as long as daily calorie needs are met, metabolic rate doesn't change based on meal frequency. Given the same # of calories and macronutrients, eating less bigger meals raises metabolism more but less frequently, and eating more smaller meals raises metabolism more often but less, in the end of the day results are the same. The idea of 6 meals a day became popular when MRP's like MET-RX came out as a way to get people to buy these products, since eating 6 meals is impractable you make supplement companies rich and supposedly optimize your metabolism. Here is an example of a Q&A w/ Lyle McDonald.The Importance of Meal Frequency

Hi Lyle,

I've always heard that I need to eat at least 6 times per day while dieting. I don't have time to prepare or eat that many meals but I still want to lose fat efficiently. So what's the deal?

Among bodybuilders, six meals (or more) per day is usually the de-facto standard, whether dieting or trying to gain size. I'm only going to talk about dieting here. The question is basically this: Does it matter if I eat 6 meals per day versus say 3 meals per day? The answer, of course, depends on what you're talking about. The usual rationale given for eating more frequently is that when you eat many times per day, your metabolism goes up at each meal and you burn more calories. But let's think about it for a second. Say you're eating 2000 calories per day, with a nutrient breakdown of 50% carbs, 25% protein and 25% fat. If you eat 6 meals per day, each one will be about 333 calories or so. If you eat 4 meals per day, they will be 500 calories each. Now, the amount that your metabolism goes up in relation to a meal depends on the composition (carbs, protein, fat) of the meal and its size. In the examples above, the nutrient breakdown of each meal is the same, only the size differs. The 333 cal meal will raise metabolism a smaller amount but will do it more frequently and the 500 cal meal will increase metabolism more but do it less frequently. As it turns out (when it's actually measured and it has been in a lot of studies), the end result is exactly the same. So from the standpoint of metabolic rate, it appears to make little difference whether you eat more smaller meals or less larger meals.

What about weight loss?

Well, since eating more frequently vs. less frequently doesn't affect metabolic rate differently, you wouldn't expect there to be a difference in weight loss. And the studies looking at it, assuming that caloric intake is the same, show no difference between fewer and larger meals. Again, this assumes that the caloric intake is the same. I'll come back to this.

What about the composition (muscle vs. fat) lost?

Very few studies have looked at this, but the few that have showed basically no difference for one pattern versus another. Of course, none of them were looking at bodybuilders or athletes with above normal muscle mass levels. So you might see a difference in those individuals. It hasn't been studied, but for those individuals, especially as they are trying to get to super-lean levels, it's probably worth eating more frequently.



For ME, personally. I generally eat 1-1.5 lbs. meat (93% ground beef, chicken, ostrich, steak, etc) with 3 fish oil capsules and 1 tsp. coconut oil for my 1st meal after a workout. My evening meal is 1/2-1 lb. of meat as well along with the fish oils and coconut oil.

My equations for fat loss arent written in stone, they just work really well and are neat and orderly (i'm anal like that). I calculated you would need around 58grams of fat per day on workout days, but thats based on your total weight as I don't know your LBM. Protein would be at 130grams per day as 1g per lb. bodyweight works VERY well for most individuals.

Again, Carb ups interfere with adaption to a fat metabolism, and if you read all the info from my previous posts they aren't necessary. The ONLY time you should eat carbs is b/c they are from high fiber sources w/ vitamins and minerals, (mainly greens) or because you WANT to eat carbs, not to optimize your body composition or performance. I didn't add the cheat meal in the plan but it is absolutely allowable if it will make following the diet easier or life more enjoyable, you only live once.

The lower fat days are really for the hardcore dieter and isn't a plan I would ever recommend for long periods of time. It comes from personal experience, experience of others as well as research. Here's why, fuel utilization is substrate specific, meaning you burn what you eat. You burn what is in highest concentration in the blood stream, so eat carbs and you burn sugar at the expense of fat, eat fat and you burn fat and enzymes build up to burn fat. The low fat days are really a way to trick the body. Since your body is getting fat on certain days w/ no carbs, it becomes fat adapted. Research from Dr. Blackburn of Harvard showed a protein sparing modified fast can be utilized to burn fat at a maximum rate w/ little to no muscle loss, but I still believe it will screw your metabolism if followed for too long. But it still provides everything our body needs, quality protein, small amt. EFA's, etc. with less fat so instead of burning more fat from food you burn more fat from your body. Its basically like fasting but without all the muscle loss associated with it. Also, it keeps you in ketosis as ketosis is the ideal state to be in for fat burning. SO MANY PEOPLE STILL THINK A KETOGENIC DIET MUST BE HIGH IN FAT, NOT TRUE. Even Lyle McDonald explains this clearly in his book. The only requirements for ketosis are low carbohydrates as well as keeping protein under control. FAT is absolutely unnecessary for ketosis to develop, but is useful for other reasons (calorie levels, fat burning enzymes, test. production, EFAs and their utilization, etc), but ketosis will develop/remain with just protein and small amts. EFA's, which is the reason for the low fat days, extremely fast fat burning. Upping protein will just increase protein breakdown on these days, interfere w/ ketosis, and keep your metabolism burning glucose and Amino Acids. The low calorie days aren't necessary but they work ridiculously well, try 5 days of 150g protein from chicken, turkey, and 6 fish oil capsules a day and drink just water, eating 2-4 meals a day and see if you don't notice a significant loss of fat. Make sure u do 2-3 days heavy, lower rep lifting on these days and let me know how it goes.
 
thanks pwb u are a very good helper..i will be eating 3-4 meals consisting of chicken breasts, egg whites or tuna..i weigh 130 so that will be around 150 grams of protein..and i will have 40 grams of fat-mostly efa's..and 1 cheat meal per week but of what? low gi carbs? hi gi carbs? well, after working out do you need dextrose? or just protein shake..also is splenda allowed on the diet along as many many veggies like spinach , mushrooms and zuccini? they have 2 carbs and 2 grams of fiber making them no calories...

thanks alot =)
 
missy, a cheat meal is a cheat meal, I dont care what it is. The GI of food is somewhat important but its still all turning to sugar, just entering the blood at a different pace. Eat what you've been craving, desire, etc. and dont worry about it, its just 1 meal.

Eliminate the dextrose post-workout, it isn't necessary. Check out the interview w/ Dr. Ellis a couple posts prior and you will see even after an extremely intense, 200+ rep workout glycogen is depleted only 40%, this is in trained bodybuilders. It will also interfere w/ fat adaption, so just stick with either whey protein, but if you could just try real food. Again, this is against what everyone else does, but I often see a loss in definition and fat loss w/ protein drinks, not always, but for those usually resistant to fat loss, like myself. Your protein sources are good, just try not to use shakes for 5 days.

Also ditch the splenda for the 5 days, again, I use it ocassionally from Diet Rite Soda or a packet or 2 on shaved ice for a treat, but I almost always notice a slight loss of quality to my physique when I use splenda. If it doesnt adversly affect you then use it again after the 5 days, but try to avoid it until then. In terms of safety very few studies have been done on it. I do know it is sugar w/ bleach added to it, causing it to "supposedly" not be absorbed by the body, but some of it is and overall it is probably unhealthy. Here's some great info so you can see for yourself. http://www.mercola.com/2000/dec/3/sucralose_dangers.htm

I can't promise huge strides in 5 days, obviously, but some noticeable progress should be made. The vegetable sources are fine, even so try to keep them low for the next few days and stick to an all meat-water diet for these few days and see where this takes you. From there throw in all the extra veggies.

If you need any more help let me know, and best of luck.
 
outstanding article. really made me think about alot of things

what really caught my eye was that more triglicerides are burned during excersise more than glucose. that is crazy i wouldve never thought that to be true. so that means during excersise more fat is being burned than carbs. you also you talk about society profiting off of carb loaded products like sodas chips cereals shit like that. if america just ate fattty stuff there isnt much variety in fatty foods to eat so there wouldnt be as much need for food products with carbs(which take up most of supermarket space like cereals drinks and shit like that)
 
could this diet be turned into a bulking diet. like just eat more fat to bulk???i was thinking about using this diet to bulk and see what happens
 
1.
Weight-training performance is impaired with low muscle glycogen. Doing 6-10 rep sets with high performance requires muscle glycogen (and not necessarily liver glycogen). Doing very low rep sets utilizes muscle ATP as well as muscle glycogen, negating the need for glycogen somewhat. However, once reps are increased, strength basically evaporates at the 4 or 5 rep mark (different number for everyone).

2.
I am curious about the diets and rep ranges of the bodybuilders that burned 70% intramuscular triglycerides during their high rep workouts. Intramuscular triglycerides are not as quickly utilized as muscle glycogen. In fact, aerobic exercise is the best way to increase intramuscular triglyceride storage capacity as far as I know.

3.
Cortisol as well as growth hormone is released when blood sugar is low and/or exercise is performed. It is a double-edged sword, isn't it?

4.
I agree with you that this is one of the only ways to successfully cut a great deal of actual fat in a short amount of time. Your statement that metabolism decreases to a point, then remains about the same is correct to my knowledge.

I think keto diets are good for people with low insulin sensitivity.
 
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Pwb i will cut out splenda but i head a small aount of it wont effect you as much as equal..Also how bout this 4 meals a day of chicken, spinach and flax oil or olive oil... 60 grams of fat on training days and 30 on non training days but i increase the protein when the fat is low..i will use butter spray -0 calorie since its no carbs and just a bit of fat ...ok? and NO cheat days lol
and no cardio until i see no results.
 
Pwb i will cut out splenda but i head a small amount of it wont effect you as much as equal..Also how bout this 4 meals a day of chicken, spinach and flax oil or olive oil... 60 grams of fat on training days and 30 on non training days but i increase the protein when the fat is low..i will use butter spray -0 calorie since its no carbs and just a bit of fat ...ok? and NO cheat days lol
and no cardio until i see no results.
 
Pwb i will cut out splenda but i head a small amount of it wont effect you as much as equal..Also how bout this 4 meals a day of chicken, spinach and flax oil or olive oil... 60 grams of fat on training days and 30 on non training days but i increase the protein when the fat is low..i will use butter spray -0 calorie since its no carbs and just a bit of fat ...ok? and NO cheat days lol
and no cardio until i see no results.
 
ncliter, this diet can definitely be used to bulk. The problem is too few people are willing to try it to give it a shot. Many years before steroids started being used as a cruch, lifters were using high fat diets to put on mass. Even Dr. Serrano says the best amino acid profiles for putting on mass come from Red Meat and Eggs, staples in this diet. Try to get 1.5-2g protein per lb. of bodyweight, and the remaining cals from The Fat in Meat/Eggs, Coconut Oil, and Fish Oils. I would slowly increase your fat rather than going on a super-high calorie diet as not to put on too much fat. Set protein levels and aim for 40% fat, then increase weekly as needed to add muscle and adapt to fat as energy. I'd Even throw in a really high fat load day to fill the muscles out. Vince Gironda and Dave Draper wrote about bodybuilders in the old days at high fat and protein and put on their best mass that way. Dr. DiPasquale, considered one of the foremost nutrition experts in the world, is an advocate of the high fat diet.

missy, I agree a small amount is fine. your diet plan looks good, make sure you get the 1g per lb. bodyweight. Don't worry about increasing protein much on the lower fat days, try to keep it the same. Make sure you are lifting hard and heavy, with a short intense workout, lower reps (4-6), heavy weights and shorter rest, 1-2 min. for 2-3 days and try to do 2-3 days of sprint intervals. Do this at a high school track or a park, etc. Jog 5 min. to warm up, then sprint 30seconds, walk/jog 90seconds. Do this 6 times and increase 1 sprint each week.

plorvine, a couple of things. I'm writing much from the top of my head on my girlfriends computer as mine is down for now so I can't reference as much as I wish. Anyway, in the interview some glycogen was used to fuel the muscles during the lifting routine, but not as much as is usually believed. This is interesting as this occured in carb adapted bodybuilders. Even so they utilized a great deal of fat as an energy source as liver glycogen wasn't significantly depleted either. The problem is this study shows some support, but what if the bodybuilders were on a low carb diet for several weeks/months. The problem is these studies have NOT been conducted to a great extent b/c once carb loading was developed and supported by research, this is the ONLY idea that has been supported, believed. Studies on fat adapted indivuals are non-existant. I agree this approach is wildly different than what is supported, which is why we have to use some research on endurance athletes and mice, for some hint to performance changes on this type of diet. The sad fact is bodybuilding is a pitifully unpopular sport, and not a lot of research has been done in the field for this reason. Even the research on strength training that is done is ALWAYS dne on those who eat carbs consistantly, so its impossible to compare fuel utilization accurately since they haven't done studies. Even one of the developers of carb loading insisted it be used for short periods of time, yet gov't., etc, recommended it always to improve athletic performance.

Rep ranges for the bodybuilders were 10 reps done to failure w/ short rest, it seemed like a German Volume Training program on the legs.

I will get back to you w/ more information on cortisol, but from my understanding cortisol decreases once adaption to low carbs takes place. Just like low energy is common when starting a low carb diet, cortisol increases as the body percieves stress. I'm unaware of studies measuring cortisol on those following the diet for long periods of time. Also in groups exercising aerobics are usually the exercise of choice which is a shame but excessive aerobics, especially w/ calorie restriction will lead to elevated cortisol levels.

Here is part of an article from Dr. Mauro DiPasquale

High-Intensity Exercise And High Fat Oxidation

What's the best kind of exercise to maximize body fat oxidation? A few recent studies have shown that high-intensity exercise may be the best fat burner of all.

Moderate exercise is considered the king of fat burners. Everyone knows that the best way to burn fat is to do moderate intensity aerobics, not high-intensity exercise. That's because lower-intensity prolonged exercise is supposed to use fat as fuel while higher-intensity exercise, such as weight lifting, is supposed to use up the body's stores of ATP, PCr and glycogen. But how much of this thinking is based in fact and how much is just hearsay?

As far as the best kind of exercise to maximize body fat oxidation, a few recent studies have actually shown that high intensity exercise may be the best fat burner of all.

It seems that the compound malonyl-CoA is an inhibitor of carnitine palmitoyltransferase I, the enzyme that controls the oxidation of fatty acids by regulating their transfer into the mitochondria.4 The actual metabolic rationale is somewhat convoluted but, basically, if you decrease malonyl CoA you actually increase fatty acid oxidation. Exercise results in an acute decrease of skeletal muscle malonyl CoA by inhibiting acetyl-CoA carboxylase (the enzyme involved in the synthesis of malonyl CoA).5 So exercise increases fatty acid oxidation.

In one recent study done on rats, the extent of ACC inactivation and therefore the decrease in the formation of malonyl CoA was dependent on exercise intensity.6 The higher the intensity of exercise the more fatty acid oxidation, with no leveling off or decrease as the intensity of exercise increased. Interestingly enough, slow twitch fibers ACC inactivation only occurred with intense exercise while the degree of fast twitch fibers ACC inactivation was dependent on exercise intensity.

Bottom line. High-intensity exercise burns fat best. So don't feel deprived because you're training at high intensity and don't have the time to do a lot of moderate-intensity aerobics. The treadmill aficionados don't have anything over on you.
 
Pwb u are a big help and i gladly appreciate it.
now aren't calories since fat and protein decreased fairly low for a low carb diet on non training days?. well it dosnt matter because i will be working alot and have no time to eat, But i heard from a BBuilder that 5-6 meals provide a stabolized anabolic environment for your muscles as opposed to 3 or 4 meals. They said you can lose and use protein or muscle as energy during the long hours without amino acids.? im confised and any outtake on this/?
 
The idea of 5-6 meals a day being necessary for anabolism is utter bullshit. It really came around for several reasons, one is from supplement companies when they developed meal replacements as eating 6x a day is almost impossible if you have a life so they could sell their MRP's to make money, saying that 6 meals a day is superior. Another reason comes from steroid using bodybuilders, where more meals are beneficial b/c steroids increase protein synthesis, therefore everything you eat on juice helps build muscle, so more protein will be used, being natural everything is different and 6 meals is a waste of time unless one enjoys smaller meals/eating by their watches. Jeff Everson was even talking about this recently, how Cory Everson never ever ate more than 3 meals a day when training for and winning her several Ms. Olympia's. (again, she still used drugs, but the fact still remains)

Humans would never had made it this far through our existance if protein broke down after a few hours of not eating it. We went through long periods of famine, where food wasnt available, yet we survived b/c we were adapted to and b/c we were still capable of using our muscles to hunt despite going periods of time w/ no food. Our body doesn't become catabolic on an hourly basis, its over a much larger scale. Recent research by a premiere protein researcher, Dr. Biore showed a superior utilization of protein if eaten in a pulse fashion, a way I believe we are meant to eat. In elderly, muscle breakdown is a huge problem. Studies were conducted increasing 2 groups of people's protein to 1.5g protein per kg. of bodyweight, and spread 1 groups food over 3-4 meals evenly and 1 groups protein intake into 80% protein 1 meal, and the remaining over 2-3 other meals. The "protein pulse" group showed superior protein synthesis, with less muscle breakdown. Other studies on amino acid infusion, injecting protein into the body, showed anabolism for about 1-2 hours, and dropped to nothing after that, no matter how much extra protein was ingested, anabolism stopped. This strongly opposes the idea of eating protein every 2-3 hours, since it is basically being wasted, at least in terms of helping muscle growth. Rather a pulse fashion, of periods of no food, with larger protein intakes show superior results. Muscles seem to have receptor sites to amino acids, similiar to with insulin, and once they are exposed to amino acids (protein) they become desensitised for some time, similar to insulin resistance (diabetes). The 2 best ways to increase muscle sensitivity to amino acids is a protein fast (no protein for several hours), or intense muscle contractions, lifting weights.I believe this comes from an evolutionary standpoint as we are similar to predatory animals (wolves, lions, etc), to hunt and kill an animal (anaerobic, like lifting, sprinting) then eating as much of the kill as possible (protein pulse, postworkout protein feeding). Dont buy into needing several small meals a day, you can go that road if you desire but I personally have better things to do than cook food all day or carry shakes everywhere I go.
 
I think eating every 2-3 hours makes sense for carb based diets, as large servings of carbs are not utilized as well as several small intermittent servings of carbs.

Low carb diets don't require so many meals because there is a negligible glycemic response to low carb meals.

PwB,
I understand that this diet has its uses, but I don't see it as a very long-term solution. I don't believe someone on low carbs will be able to bench as much weight for 6 reps as someone on a high carb diet. If this diet is used long-term, performance is definitely compromised and strength can easily be lost. With carb-ups, I can see how it is viable, but not without.

Throw up your one rep max on bench, then let your body adapt to your low carb high fat diet and try it again. I don't believe you will be able to do it.
 
I read this thread over and over and it frustrates me.....how can there be so much of a disparity in opinion in achieving the goals we speak of.......cut carbs? cut fat? cut both........AHHH!:)
 
A couple of suggestions.

Avoid supplementing with iodine. While it does help some it is absoulte trouble for others, its a myth that iodine improves thyroid function and can somtimes severly hinder it.

About the intervals. Depending on LBM this diet could be VLC. Lyle says in his book that aerobic exercise during low-calorie situations lowered metabolism and did nothing for fat loss. PwB, maybe you can clear this up, but can Sprints be considered aerobic?, I've always thought of them as more of an anaerobic exercise.

About the whole enzyme upregulation thing, doesnt the body resort to using an outrageously high percent of its calories from fat at about the third week of ketosis no matter what (I forget what phase of "starvation" this is)?
 
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Sprints are definitely anaerobic, not aerobic. I'd be interested in more information on the iodine, where did you get information about it not being beneficial. And it is phase II of starvation where fat burning is greatest, phase III of starvation shifts the body to burning predominantly muscle for energy. If you want more specifics let me know.

Missy, have you been following the plan??? If so how are things going so far?
 
I have no problems with eating protein and fat 2-3 times per day.. A whole lot easier then eatting 6!!!


Butthe thing about no carbs,, even post workout?

You mentioned eat fat to fill out muscles.. cant only carbs do this?

I tried the Crum diet and found it enjoyable... (low carbs, protein/fat diet) I rarely got flat. I always felt pumped. But on ocaasion I felt flat.
How do fat fill muscles up?
Also dont we need to eat protein every few hours to keep nitrogen levls up..


If you only eat 2 times per day... dont you get hungry in between?
 
hey PwB,

could you post more information on the different phases of starvation. i am interested in the scientific explanation of it.

thanks
 
MohawkMuscle, having carbs post-workout is a personal decision. I personally don't do it and am not suffering or losing muscle b/c of it. I think it will interefere with adapting to burning fat as a primary fuel source, but doesn't mean it can't be done. Even Charles Poliquin (best strength coach/trainer IMHO) recommends no carbs post-workout and large quantities of glutamine instead for athletes wanting to lean out quickly. I agree with this as well. If you will follow a low carb diet and only consume carbs post-workout, results will still be great. This has been proven time and again. I've also talked to several people who low carb but consume carbs post-workout and fat loss slows/stops for them. Several people have talked about this over at T-mag's discussion board, so it is an individual thing. Besides too many calories, another reason I think the added carbs aren't helpful b/c insulin is anabolic to fat cells just as much as to muscle. Also, insulin has many detrimental effects to ones health, and I'm totally convinced it is unhealthy to frequently raise insulin levels dramatically with high GI carbs. Insulin blocks arteries, shortens our lifespan, causes fat storage, etc. etc. Thoroughly read this incredible article by Dr. Ron Rosedale and see what I mean.
http://www.dfhi.com/interviews/rosedale.html , most of his statements are right on target, except some areas such as his views on saturated fat. The body produces it b/c it is our prime energy source.
Here is an article on an incredible bodybuilder, John Meadows and his fat loading protocol for a precontest bodybuilder.


The End of Days - A New Approach to Pre-Contest Preparation
by John Meadows

You have one more week to go. You can see it now. You slowly walk out on stage, and the crowd erupts into a chorus of cheers. As you gracefully move through your routine, you know...this is your night. No way is anyone going to beat you this time around. You have paid your dues, dieted your ass off, literally. You have trained to the point of "selling buuuuiicks." You have spent hours soaking in your sweat in that nasty tanning bed. It's all coming together, just one last week.

You begin the week with the traditional decarbing. Even though your brain is in meltdown, you know that after the loading phase, you'll look unstoppable. You suffer for a few days more, you're flat tired and in a state of paranoid delusional schizophrenic dementia.

Finally, Wednesday comes. You begin to pound down the carbs. Damn those sweet potatoes are awesome - a little cinnamon and Equal and it's like sweet potato pie. Every 2-3 hours, you take in a little more...then Friday night...WHAM...your muscles bellies are round, full, and your skin appears to be paper thin. You go to bed knowing that after tomorrow night, you are going to give new meaning to the phrase "Freaky Hard."

Ahhh! Time to wake up, the big day is here. You go to the mirror for one last final look....WHOA, WHAT THE F#@$ happened. Your sliced thighs are blurry looking! Your ass, which was sort of striated, is now holding more water than Hoover Dam. Your abs look decent, but DAMN...even your lower back skin has loosened up...But, you can fix it. You whack a diuretic in hopes that the extra film of water will disappear. A few hours later your blood pressure has dropped, and now your vascularity has been wiped away. Finally, you mope out onto the stage, knowing that you blew it....what did you do wrong??

Where did you fail???

If you have competed in the weird sport of bodybuilding, you have no doubt experienced this, or know someone who has. I am going to ask you to try a new approach this season. I must admit, I am a bit reluctant in giving up this information, as I feel it would enable some bodybuilders to beat me, who otherwise wouldn't stand a chance. But oh well, Paul Burton has been good to me, so I am going to provide this info to all of you. Usually, when I explain this approach to pre-contest preparation, most people are too scared to try it anyway, so maybe my fear is unwarranted.

This article will only deal with the last 3 days prior to the show, as I feel that this is when 50% of competitive bodybuilders blow it. The other 49% are simply too fat and didn't pay their dues. The other 1% percent will usually be the winners, politics aside. So first things first: if you are simply to fat when you compete, go back and read every message on the diet boards, and focus on increasing your knowledge of nutrition. Ok, with all that said...LET"S GO!

Let me first ask you some elementary questions. What happens to your water levels when you increase or decrease carbs? Think about when you lower your carbs drastically, what happens? Hopefully you said, I pee my brains out! Yes, when you are low in carbs, water goes right through you. So what are your chances of holding water on stage, if your carbs are low? Little to none, depending on some other factors. I believe that every gram of carb, holds three grams of water. So yes, your muscles will look fuller with carbs.

BUT, there is a very good chance that you will not time the load properly, and end up "spilling over." In other words, you put all those carbs in you, and you look awesome for an hour or two, but then the water starts going places you didn't want it to go. All those weeks of hard work down the drain because you believed that carb loading would greatly increase your chances of looking perfect on stage. I know what you are thinking, “but John, I am flat without carbs, and weak.” “I can't be on stage in that condition.” My response to you is.. I AGREE! But you know, there’s this cool nutrient out there that can "fill out" your muscles, without the chance of water retention. It's called, now brace yourself, hold on tight......FAT!

Let's take a step back now, what have we learned. It's ok to drink water pre-contest, as long as my carbs are low...because my body can't hold water physiologically due to the low carb intake. It's also necessary for me to increase my fat, so that I am full, and have energy. Remember that fat calories provide 9 calories of energy per gram, as opposed to the 4 that carbohydrates offer.

What about vascularity. Well, vascularity comes from blood pressure and red blood cell count. You can effectively drive both of these factors up by eating normal steaks such as top round, eye of round, sirloin, flank, and bottom round. Also cashews and peanut butter help. They both have a lot of mono saturated fat, which will give you energy and fullness, and they both have a little bit of salt that should keep your blood pressure up.

The other great thing about this approach, is that you tighten up, and then stay that way for days on end, as long as you stick to the diet. Also, small adjustments are all that's needed for this to work every time.

Let me give you an example of what I did prior to the 99 USA, where I unquestionably was the hardest competitor on stage.

Wednesday (prior to competition)

Meal 1 - 6 scrambled eggs - Good protein and good fat!

Meal 2 - 1/2 pound pd steak and 1/2 cup of cashews

Meal 3 - Whey protein shake w/ 2 table spoons of peanut butter

Meal 4 - 1/2 pound of steak w/ 1/2 cup of cashews

Meal 6 - 1/2 pound of steak w/ one medium sized sweet potato

Meal 7 - 1/2 pound of salmon w/ 2 table spoons of peanut butter

Water Intake 3 gallons of tap water (need a little sodium!)

Thursday

Water goes to two gallons.

If you look super dry and hard upon waking then repeat yesterday's diet. If you are a little too flat then add an extra steak or two. If you are not quite hard and ripped enough, cut out the potato. That should do the trick.

Friday (day of show)

1 gallon of water up until noon. After noon, no more water is necessary.

I am onstage around 9 pm. Remember yesterday's rules the exact same way.

One more thing. You need to be fat free two weeks out from your contest. Don't make the mistake of trying to hit it the day of the show. Get in shape a little early, and you will display deeper lines, and a more mature look. Also, one week prior to your contest, you can run a practice session of what I have taught you. You will be in good shape, so you your results will probably be extremely close to what you will see during contest week.

There you have it. Remember that I compete around 220, at 5'5". You may be heavier or lighter, and should adjust accordingly. If you want more specifics on how to adjust...just mail me or Dr. Serrano. He also believes in this approach to pre-contest preparation. Lastly, this approach also works extremely well for women!

Best wishes,

John Meadows

2 meals a day may not be best for some, but it is for me. Its just what I do, b/c my busy schedule, convenience, hunger, and to prove a point that meal frequency isnt at the top of the list for body comp changes. Check out my information a couple responses prior about nitrogen levels. Some research is showing that the body stops utilizing protein if its fed every few hours. It seems there are receptor sites that become desensitized similar to muscles w/ insulin, and the only way to resensitize the muscles to aminos is a protein fast or intense muscle contractions (lifting). Theres much more detail above, including some studies showing better protein utilization in a "protein pulse", most protein in a single meal. Also, read the articel below on Fasting for more information about this. Hope it all helps. And again, 4 meals may be optimal for you, or 6, it all depends on what you prefer and how you feel.

Millie, here is some information for you.Fasting normalizes hormone levels

Health & Fitness Benefits
Fasting for mental clarity.
Dr. Yuri Nikolayev, director of the fasting unit of the Moscow Psychiatric Institute, reports that the reason fasting works so well for heightening mental clarity is that it "gives the entire nervous system and the brain a rest. The body is also cleansed of poisons, and the tissues and the various glands are renovated. Resting the brain forms the basis for the treatment of various neuropsychiatric disorders." In Russia, fasting has been used for 50 years as the most effective treatment for schizophrenia. The nationÕs studies show that 70 percent of patients improved mentally after 20 to 30 days of controlled fasting. One Japanese research clinic had 382 patients, all suffering from psychosomatic disease, go on a fast, with a success rate of 87 percent. And the Sapparo Medical Journal in Japan states that "fasting has been repeatedly observed to alleviate neuroses, anxiety and depression.

Fasting for anti-aging
Fasting slows down the aging process by encouraging new cell growth. This rejuvenation is speeded up as the required proteins are resynthesized from decomposed cells. Also, fasteningÕs lowering of the basal metabolic rate, the rate at which the body burns fuel to create energy, promotes longevity.

Researchers Richard Weindruch, Ph.D., and Roy Walford, M.D., have shown that longevity is directly linked to efficient energy consumption. "Thrifty" animals live longer than "burner" animals. Fasting causes a decrease in B.M.R. of around one percent daily until it stabilizes at 75 percent of its normal level. What this boils down to is that tour body needs a break every once in a while from the daily chores of mastication, digestion, assimilation, and elimination. This hiatus will also provide the person fasting with more energy because it will spare the approximately ten percent of the bodyÕs energy budget that is normally spent performing these functions.

Fasting normalizes hormone levels
Signs of premature aging, a lagging libido, and a bulging waistline are all indicative of malfunctioning endocrine or sex glands and diminished sex-hormone production. Scientific fasting has been shown to revitalize these glands and normalize hormone production, thus reversing such processes. A number of biochemical changes occur during fasting. When the body becomes more efficient at burning fuel, it reduces its dependence on glucose and uses fatty acids more efficiently. This means that insulin sensitivity is greatly increased, with more anabolic (muscle-growth) activity as a result. There is also a notable increase in the production of growth hormone, which is responsible for increased lean-body mass, decreased body fat, increased body fat, increased energy, and a reversal in the signs of aging.

Fasting for muscle growth and fat loss
To gain some insight into the control systems underlying the regulation of body composition during lean-body weight gain and fat loss, we can look to the classic Minnesota Experiment, which involved 32 men subjected to long-term semi-starvation and refeeding. In 1996, scientists at the University of Geneva in Switzerland duplicated the methods used in the Minnesota Experiment in order to (1) determine whether the control of energy partitioning between lean tissue and fat tissue during weight loss and weight recovery is an individual characteristic; (2) determine whether the reduction in weight calorie-wasting thermogenesis during weight loss persists during weight recovery, and underlies the disproportionate regain of fat tissue; and (3) integrate the control of energy partitioning and that of thermogenesis in order to explain the pattern of lean-and fat-tissue mobilization and deposition during weight loss and weight recovery. The men were assessed according to body weight, body fat, lean-body mass, and basal metabolic rate at the end of 24 weeks of semistarvation and again after 12 weeks of restricted refeeding. These measurements were used to calculate the parameter known as the P ratio, defined as the proportion of body energy mobilized as protein during weight loss or as the proportion of body energy deposited as protein during weight recovery. The data from this study suggest that lean-and-fat-tissue deposition during weight recovery is to a large extent determined by individual variations in the initial percentage of body fat. So, the lower your body fat is and the more muscle you have, the greater will be your potential to become more fit.

Fasting and protein utilization
A very important factor in building muscle is optimizing the way your body utilizes protein. Fasting has been shown time and again to accelerate the bodyÕs ability to produce protein in skeletal muscle. Studies performed at Cornell University show that when subjects are starved for 24 hours, cellular energy decreases but there is no decrease in cell protein. The body relies heavily on fats and carbohydrates for energy during a fast but spars protein, and if you time the breaking of the fast properly, you can optimize your protein utilization.

According to scientists from Pennsylvania State UniversityÕs College of Medicine in Hershey, protein synthesis in skeletal muscle is markedly stimulated (180 percent of control rate) within three hours of eating in subjects who had fasted for 18 hours. This would be the time period between starvation phases II and III.

Researchers at the Gumma University School of Medicine in Maebashi, Japan, found in their studies on protein synthesis and utilization that starvation considerably increased the amount of the peptide transporter present in the small intestine. This peptide transporter is responsible for the uptake of small peptides (amino-acid chains) in the small intestine. Therefore, during starvation more peptides are absorbed for the synthesis of protein. An interesting side note of the study is that dietary administration of amino acids decreased the amount of peptide transporter present in the small intestine.

Another substance critical to protein synthesis is A. M.P.-activated protein kinase. This is an enzyme important in cellular adaptation to the stress of starvation.

In an article in the December 25, 1998, Journal of Biology and Chemistry the authors assert that, thanks to A.M.P-activated protein kinase, protein production dramatically increased in test subjects who had fasted.

The utilization of proteins and the involvement of lipids (fats) under starvation conditions was investigated by scientists at 15 the Centre d'Ecologie et Physiologie Energetiques, in Strasabourg, France. They that the shift from Phase II (protein sparing) to Phase III (increased protein breakdown) there is a change from the preferential use of lipids to a preferential utilization of proteins. They also found that the total activity of the enzyme carnitine palmitoyl transferase was substantially higher in subjects at the end of Phase II of starvation.

Carnitine palmitoyl transferase is responsible for helping to create palmitoylcarnitine, which facilitates the transfer of long-chain fatty acids from the cytoplasm of the cell into the mitochondria during the oxidation of fatty acids. Carnitine palmitoyl transferase was 48 percent higher in subjects studied at the end of Phase II than it was in fed subjects but was similar in fed subjects and subjects studied at the beginning of Phase III. And the total activity of fatty acyl-CoA (the coenzyme responsible for fat oxidation) was 73 percent lower only in subjects studied at the beginning of Phase III. It appears that a fast must be broken at the end of Phase II or the very beginning of Phase lll for ultimate protein synthesis and fat burning.

A viable option for those who wish to try fasting for muscle growth and health would be to have an early supper, fast overnight (approximately 18 hours), weight train upon waking, and then eat a meal of high-quality proteins, carbohydrates, and fats. Or one fast throughout the day and break the fast with an evening meal.
 
My current diet is for fat loss purposes only, I would not recommend it for long periods of time. It comes from the basics of our bodies needs and research from Dr. Blackburn of Harvard Univ. and his studies on a Protein Sparing Modified Fast, which I talked about in my initial post. Again, this is extreme and unhealthy for most, but for pure fat loss I've found nothing better.

I eat 2 meals a day, 12 hours apart, say 1 at 9am and 1 at 9pm, sometimes 3 meals but usually 2.

I workout in the morning and eat right afterwards. Meal 1 is 1-1.5 lbs chicken, turkey, ostrich, or top round steak. I have this with 3 fish oil capsules and water. I drink water throughout the day, along with shaved ice for (somewhat) of a treat. I cook in a tsp. coconut oil for its health benefits and Saturated fat which doesn't turn toxic like all other fats do during cooking.

My evening meal is similar, 1/2-1 lb. of meat along with the fish oils. Every few days will be a high fat day, either once or twice a week where I'll eat high fat red meat, pork, nuts ocassionally, bacon, etc.

as a note, nclifter6feet6 followed a similar cutting diet some-time back and said he got ripped like never before, although he ate less meals and used a lot of (bad) soy protein, as well as basically 0 fat which again is very unhealthy.


Once my goals are reached I will again start consuming more fat in my diet as well as more protein to increase muscle mass, but for now i'm pursuing an opportunity for modeling (although I will not allow myself to be skinny like most are)
 
PwB,
I'm trying not to be closeminded so bear with me here. Your apparent success with this diet has gotten me interested.

Are you just as strong on this diet as with all higher carb diets? Or is your diet just not meant for, say, powerlifters or strongmen? Do you feel that for a given body composition, your diet allows one to be just as strong as with the same body composition on a higher carb diet? Does your diet allow you to increase your strength very easily?

What about bulking? Do you feel you have a better ratio of muscle increase to fat increase on this diet than a higher carb diet? I am simply assuming that you cannot increase muscle mass as quickly with your diet, ignoring fat increase with a higher carb diet.

Do you feel your diet is more anticatabolic (not necessarily anabolic, of course) than carb-based diets?

One more thing:
Assume you have been following this diet for a while (your body has adjusted metabolic pathways, etc., etc.). You are planning to see how much weight you can lift. Don't you think you will fairly quickly be stronger if you eat a bunch of carbs than if you just stick with your diet? If so, wouldn't this affect long-term strength/mass gain if you took some pre-workout carbs regularly?
 
I personally am just as strong as I was on a higher carb diet, and actually have problems eating carbs pre-workout. I tried to over a year ago after eating low carbs for quite a long time. I was going to try to go back to a body-for-life type eating plan just for variety, and ate a carb-protein meal about 2 hours before my workouts. I did this about 3 times and each time became very light-headed and dizzy, with mild nausea. At the time I was confused but now think it has to do with low blood sugar or enyme downregulation to handling carbs. The carbs were also moderate GI, slow cooked oatmeal so I wouldn't suspect a blood sugar crash. Again, this is my personal experience and a few others at my gym have similar experiences.

I will admit that strength is not my primary goal, and nor can it be if I chose. The reason being is I used to be very strong about 3 years ago, before I hurt my shoulder playing football in college and having major surgery. I was told I could never play again and it would be a long recover, which it has been. I can't say this plan is optimal for powerlifters, but how many have given it a fair chance. Even with carb ups, Dr. Mauro DiPasquale one several competitions (I believe World Games, etc) using his high fat/high protein/low carb diet during his training and competing. Dr. Serrano and Scott Mendelson write of the benefits of low carb diets for strength athletes, but they too recommend carb ups ocassionally.

Regardless, I do increase strenth steadily when I choose to, but I physically can't lift as much b/c of my shoulder, the injury was bad and also very rare, posterior instability (actually multidirectional, but mostly posterior which isn't common and few dr's are willing to do surgery for it) For my clients at the gym who do follow my dietary advice, they do make stregth gains that are consistant. One in particular increased stregth in all lifts over 6 weeks and lost 38lbs of weight, no cardio, just lifting and dieting low carbs. He also went from borderline diabetic to completely normal in all blood profiles, his Dr. couldn't get over it. Charles Poliquin believes that the biggest factors for increasing stregth and muscle mass are training programs more than diet, and talks about how athletes on low carb/low cal diets readily increase muscle mass and strength on his programs.

I have to run, I'll answer the rest later.
 
PwB, ever since I first read that article a while ago I've had one burning question. Is there any difference at all in eating every twelve ours (as you do) and actually waiting the full 18 as the article suggests?
 
I find this all to be very intriguing as well. However, I have noticed good results thus far following a "Targeted Ketogenic Diet" (found in Lyle McDonald's "The Ketogenic Diet" book). As far as eating 2 meals a day...well, even if it was as beneficial as eating 4-6 meals a day...it certainly isn't as fun. Personally, I would find it very hard to go that long without food [between meals]; I would end up binging on carb's or something. But, that's just me.
 
Again, my main point of all this wasnt that 2 meals is the best, or only way to go, it is just one option and works well for me. MrMakaveli, I believe that 12 hours of fasting is still enough to provide most benefits in terms of increasing protein sensitivity, detox, etc. For a while I was waiting 18 hours but it turned out to be a complete pain in the ass and I personally get hungry in the evening. I also have my best workouts in the morning, so it didn't work well for me. What I did was work out at say 10am, and eat at 11am. I would eat another meal or 2 within 6 hours of this, so my last meal would be at 5pm. Then the next day I would have to eat again at 11 for the 18 hour time. Things come up, etc. and its sometimes a pain to schedule eating like this, so I stay with 12 hours and believe it is very effective. Even if it isn't optimal, I doubt it makes much difference in the long run.

MASSIVEmorris, Lyle's book is outstanding and the TKD is great for fat loss. I choose to eat 2 meals but 4 may be optimal for you. I'm just presenting ideas based on science, health, experience of our ancestors, as well as some theory. If it ain't broke, why fix it? If its working for you keep up the good work. I'm just presenting ideas here, and hope people will implement it if they really do have a tough time losing bodyfat as I do on every diet i've ever tried, and I've tried them all. Again, you are utilizing certain principles with your approach that I totally agree with, such as low carbs for fat loss/health. You can experiment if you desire by eating at least 50% protein after your workout, consuming the rest in 1-3 other meals. Also, the higher fat nature of the diet makes it easier to go longer w/out food. I personally can't handle carbs pre-workout as I get lightheaded and weak, Charles Poliquin mentioned he is the same way. But if it will get you through your workout and stick to your diet, do what you must. Also note that enough carbs pre-workout will inhibit fat burning during the workout. One possible approach that works well is high amounts of Amino Acids and Glutamine during a workout, or before and after it for a similar benefit the TKD provides.
 
Also note that enough carbs pre-workout will inhibit fat burning during the workout. One possible approach that works well is high amounts of Amino Acids and Glutamine during a workout, or before and after it for a similar benefit the TKD provides.
Click to expand...

PwB: Is that so? I've been taking in 30 grams of carbohydrates pre-workout (in the form of "Sweet Tarts"). I didn't think this would be enough to inhibit fat-burning during the workout...maybe it is? I train first thing in the morning and do 30 min. of cardio post workout. So, that's why I think the pre-workout carb's probably don't hurt me too much. However, do you know of a supplement that I could take (that's high in BCAA's ...and glutamine) that could take place of the "Sweet Tarts". I'd willingly give them up if it meant more fat-burning for me.
 
From Dr. Greg Ellis in response to a question about fat and cho metabolism,
Now pyruvate via pyruvate dehydrogenase goes to acetyl CoA and fatty acids also go to acetyl. So now what do we have? We have Regulation in Metabolism. Under the influence of high rates of glycolyis (making glucose into acetyl CoA) the insulin: glucagon ration increases and the acetyl is diverted from the mitochindria where it would be used for energy and the enzyme acetyl CoA carboxylase is turned on and it converts the acetyl to malonyl-CoA which is the first committed step in converting carbohydrate-derived acetyl to saturated human fat. (Goes on in liver and adipose tissue). That's answer number 1 that our young pseudo-scientists even with an open book exam have not gotten in three days. I guesss I've made my point.

Now, if acetyl comes from fat, it enters the mitochondria and it is used as the driving source of fuel in the TCA cycle. Any excess acetyl from rapid fat delivery to the cell goes to ketones which are released to the blood where they can be oxidized by the peripheral tissues. Of course, little is known about this since ketones have received such a bad rap.

Carnitinepalmitoyl transferase I (CPT I) (the answer to #2) is the rate limiting enzyme in allowing acetyl to go into the mitochondria and is inhibited by malonyl-CoA. Glucose goes to malonyl and to fat, shutting down burning of itself and fat and it all gets stored as fat whereas fat delivery is burned. Pretty cool. If fat is making acetyl, its by-products at several locations slow down glycolysis (the break down of glucose). This is called the glucose-fatty acid cycle and therefore fat-burning controls carbohydrate burning.

How to drive fat burning? Eat fat and exercise. The absolute controller appears to be Sustrate Supply with all the other controls falling underneath and beholden to it. So eat carbs, use them, convert them to acetyl which goes to fat. That's how it works.

The phosphate/creatine system will do fine and its only worth about ten seconds of fuel anyway so don't worry about it.

The point is: the organism is designed to use and burn fat and if given a chance it will do it all day and that process will optimize every other part of the system.

All of my recommendations are based on this well-known schema. When you have the FACTS it becomes easy to design the plan.

Greg Ellis
 
MASSIVEmorris, this one if for you. Sorry I delayed, haven't been on the board for a while.


The one food you must avoid if you want to burn fat during your next workout...
Want to burn more fat during your next workout? Make sure to avoid carbohydrates before you train.

A research team from the University of Texas report that 60 grams of carbohydrate taken in the hour prior to exercise reduces the amount of fat used for fuel. Subjects taking part in the the study exercised for 60 minutes after either:

Consuming nothing

Consuming 60 grams of fructose

Consuming 60 grams of glucose

The table below shows you how fat burning dropped after consumption of either fructose or glucose following 20-30 minutes of exercise.

TABLE 1: The reduction in fat oxidation following the consumption of either fructose or glucose post-exercise.
Trial Reduction in Fat Oxidation
Glucose - 49%
Fructose - 31%

As you can see, there was a marked drop in fat oxidation during both trials. In fact, when they trained on an empty stomach, subjects burned almost twice as much fat as they did after consuming glucose.

It's all to do with the availability of fuel. Give your body carbohydrate, and it simply uses more carbohydrate. Deprive it of carbohydrate, and it relies to a greater extent on fat as a fuel.

Jeffrey F. Horowitz, the scientist leading the study, agrees.


"To maintain high rates of fat oxidation at rest and during subsequent exercise," Horowitz points out, "people should not eat even small amounts of carbohydrate before exercise."
Now, this doesn't necessarily apply for everyone. After all, there's plenty of research showing that people training for muscle size and strength would actually benefit from a carbohydrate drink before or during a workout.

But if your main goal is fat loss then the message is clear -- if you can, avoid carbohydrate for at least four hours before you train.

Reference

Horowitz, J.F., Mora-Rodriguez, R., Byerley, L.O., & Coyle, E.F. (1997). Lipolytic suppression following carbohydrate ingestion limits fat oxidation during exercise. American Journal of Physiology, 36, E768-E775
 
Thanks for the reply PwB. So, basically, you advocate using a "SKD" (Standard Ketogenic Diet) even if you are not sedentary? Rather, you suggest no carbohydrates whatsoever, even if training intensely with weights, am I right?
 
Even though it is against popular opinion, yes. At least thats what I do, have had several clients do w/ success and some of the newest research is supporting this. Again, having carbs is fine if kept in low enough quantities, and I think a max level of around 60-80g would produce most if not all the benefits of low carbs while still allowing a great deal of leeway in terms of food choices if one chooses to eat carbs. Calorie restriction is #1 for weight loss, carbs should be lowered mainly for health reasons, hormone regulation, fullness for many in their abscence replacing them w/ protein and fat, etc. But it ALL comes down to calories, i'm just talking about optimization and I feel less carbs is better. But people have gotten shredded on every diet under the sun, its just about what is best, healthies, fastest, and most tolerable, for me this plan is as well as for many others.

And I DO train intensely with weights, 3-4 days a week as well as sprinting, my training is great w/out carb-ups.
 
I just posting to give support to this plan. I started it a few weeks ago when I first talked to PwB (off now due to finals and such), but I found that I was my strongest when I wasnt eating carbs (weird..yes) and only three meals a day. I'll admit sprinting on no carbs wasnt fun and neither was lifting but lets put it this way. Before my carb up I could do 6 more pull-ups than I could after and I also lost noticeable amounts of fat.

As for the thyroid thing PwB, give me some time and I'll send the info to you.
 
PwB: Thanks for all of your information/insight. I'm going to go ahead and try a SKD for 2 weeks (I'll take a break from the TKD). I'll let you know how it goes.
 
What are good sources to eat so you consume all that fat?
If you eat red meat, do you need to eat lots of nuts also?
What about if you eat chicken breast, turkey, egg whites, etc.
Should you somehow eat other fat besides fish oil pills?
I am confused as to how to get the fat from foods besides supplements.
Thanks.
 
Well, I stayed on a diet like this for almost a year a while back and I would never do it again. I droped to 20 pounds under weight, but I was to affraid of carbing up. I ended up with no energy and feeling all around terrible. Recently I have started eating carbs and my muscles are fuller and my attitude is great. I was extremly moody back then. Life was no fun!
My mother also tried this for about a year and checked her cholesterol which was through the roof. Really fearing for her life at this point she changed her eating to include carbs and droped it drastically in 3 weeks. Doctors were amazed at the speed!
I know there is a great deal of research on this type of diet because I read many books to support my lifestyle. But my actual experience with it makes me regret it.
I used to hate carbs for making me fat, now i love them for giving me enough energy to get out of bed. I have realized I need carbs to survive. Your brain needs it!
 
Determin8tion, here is a sample list from Dr. DiPasquale's Metabolic Diet, which advocates a high fat/protein, low carb diet during the week.

Steak
Hamburger
Sausage
Venison
Salmon
Lamb
Shrimp
Lobster
Chicken
Turkey
Tuna
Herring
Anchovies
Cheese*
Eggs
Butter
Oils**
Walnuts
Pot Roast
Pastrami
Bacon
Sunflower Seeds
Mayonnaise
Salt
Diet Sodas
Jello***
Ham

* full fat/low carb
** poly and mono-saturated fats as in nuts, olive oil, flax seed oil
*** sugar-free


Most fat should be from food, and fish oil/cod liver oil would be best to supplement with. Fish oil is ideal now though b/c cod liver has a lot of vitamin D in it, and you will get a lot of vitamin D from the sun b/c summer time, which could cause toxicity. Best Oils to cook with are coconut oil and olive oil. Rest of the fat should be from food and mainly saturated fat. Although fat ratios may be greater total fat intake may not be as high as on a traditional diet, depending on calorie levels. An example, for me cutting the most amount of fat i'll eat is 88g, (and usually get less than that) which is high for some but others wouldn't consider it so. It all depends on your calorie needs, energy level, etc.

trial0rzgrl, could you post some sample days of your diet or sample meals?? What diet did you follow, what were your protein/fat ratios, bodyweight and calorie intake? Did you have any carbs at all? Did you cheat?? If so how often??? Did you use low carb bars or shakes??? I'd be interested in more information. Same questions go for your mother.

Just as a note we don't need carbs to survive and neither dose our brain, which prefers to run on ketones when given the chance. This goes for muscles cells as well when a cross section is taken and carbs/fat/ketones are made available, ketones are preferred over other sources. The brain requires 100g glucose a day on a carb-based diet, but when carbs aren't present and the body adapts, it can derive 75% of its energy from ketones, and the rest from glucose produced from the breakdown of fats and protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis.
 
Thanks for the detailed response, Pwb.
It sounds like the Atkins diet list of fats to eat.

What brand and what type of fish oil capsules do you use or like?

Thanks,
 
I believe Dale Alexander (Twinlab) Brand MaxEPA is one of the highest quality, but they expensive. Other good brands are Carlsons, Vitamin World has their own brand which is very good quality (which I use), and even BJ's or Sams have fish oils and they've been tested and are of good quality (use these sometimes too) and they're cheap. Just make sure to refrigerate after opening them.
 
PwB - Thyroid

PwB...

Any more info on preventing thyroid shutting down? Just read a couple of articles that state you need some carbs to keep the liver converting T3/T4, otherwise - thyroid starts shutting down. Any info much appreciated, thanks ;-)
 
hooch-5, if you have the time read this article. There is some drop in Thyroid production but not metabolic rate, according to Dr. Greg Ellis. "Mostly it's calories that control the major metabolic rate changes and diet comp is involved, sometimes powerfully, but never anywhere near the effects of calories. Thyroid hormones do decrease with low cho but metabolism does not drop, interestingly."


http://www.dfhi.com/interviews/rosedale.html

its long, if u dont read the whole thing here is a section from it.

Thyroid-how does thyroid work? The thyroid produces mostly T4. T4 goes to the liver and is converted to T3, mostly there, other tissues too, but mostly in the liver. We are getting the idea that insulin controls a lot of what goes on in the liver, and the liver is the primary organ that becomes insulin resistant. When the liver can no longer listen to insulin, you can't convert T4 to T3 very well. Usually in people who are hyperinsulinemic with a thyroid hormone that comes back totally normal, it is important to measure their T3. Their free T3 will just as often as not be low. Get their insulin down and it comes back up.

Here are a few recommendations for keeping things running well.

Test for an iodine deficiency using a home test. swab a 3" by 3" solid square of 2% iodine tincture on your lower abdomen and leave it for 24 hours. If the orange square disappears before 24 hours u could benefit from iodine and the AA tyrosine supplementation, both help make T3. OR, (another test) take your body temp 4x a day for several days, before eating meals and before bed, and right upon wakening. Avg. the temperatures and if they read below 98 then there may be an issue as well.

Zinc and selenium help produce the enzyme that converts T4 to T3.

1/2 oz. raw nuts has a beneficial effect as well as warming effect to the body from its nutrients and EFA's. (walnuts are ideal b/c higher n-3 content)

Follow an exercise program predominantly anaerobic training, lifting heavy weights

Sunbathe 15-30 min a day (dont burn, obviously) The sun naturally steps the metabolism up by stimulation the throid to increase hormone production, studies on animals have confirmed this effect showing greater weight loss in those given sunlight exposure.

The throid will not shut down though, it will slow down conversion of T4 to T3. This is part of the equation but not the whole story. Also, eating as little as 50g carbs can allow less slowdown. Carbs need not be completely forbidden if this is a concern of yours. According to Dr. Rosedale too much carbs actually causes more of a problem as it interferes with the conversion of T4 to T3. Anyway, hope these suggestions help.
 
Can I ask where you found the information on the sunlight being good? This is the first I've heard of it, I'm really interested in finding out more.

Thanks
 
PwB,

1) If I'm requiring 200g protein/day in 2 sittings, what can you tell me about absorption efficiency & effects of absorbing 100g protein (along with lots of fat) in one sitting, twice a day, in the short and long term?

2) Please elaborate on starvation phases.

3) I have not yet seen any proof that there is less muscle loss when dieting with less frequent meals (ie, 2 instead of 6). Please provide some or point me into the right direction.

4) How exactly do we make the "switch" from being carb-efficient to being fat-efficient in such a short period of time? From a biochemical standpoint, I'm a little confused as to how this happens so quickly and effectively.

5) This whole idea of fat being used efficiently as fuel -- what are the limits of carbs with which this happens? More specifically, will I have the same effect by reducing carbs and putting fat in it's place or must this be a drastic change?

6) Any examples of pro bodybuilders (ie, successful with this diet) who eat 2-4 times a day (as opposed to 6-8) and follow this diet?

Thank you for the time you've taken to provide elaborate answers for everyone.

limit
 
limit, just read your questions, but have to leave for work in the next ten minutes. I will answer your questions 2nite or tomorrow. All good questions, and i'll tell you i've learned a lot since i wrote this thread so some ideas have changed. But i'll address everything u asked later. I can quickly answer your last question, take what pro bodybuilders do with a grain of salt. Many don't have a deep understanding of training or nutrition. Not all, but most DONT. Take great genetics, massive amounts of steroids, GH, and other drugs, have no life but train, eat and rest, and you'll get results. Diet to get ripped, and replace all the hormones that get screwed up dieting naturally with drugs, and you dont have to worry about much except eat less, train hard and get lean. But, for 2 examples off the top of my head, Serge Nubret (incredible physique) and Thierry Pastel used to eat 1 huge meal at night, after training. Again, I wouldnt recommend it, but it worked for them. Gotta go, i'll get back to you.
 
PWB,


What about going for strength and size such as my self, should I bulk with carbs and diet down without, or would bulking without carbs still provide good strength and size gains? Since I started uping my carbs I been dead fucking tired, I yawn during workouts I take naps a few hours after I wake up, i dunno why.


Thanks
 
PWB,

I've just started with your program yesterday and for some reason I REALLY think this program will do wonders to me. I'm gonna do it for 3 months stricly with all training and nutrition logs and with the highest amount of willpower. There are three things however which I am not doing according to your plan though. I just want to know if it is Ok or if it will be detrimental to my weight loss/muscle gain.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are my stats :

Date recorded : 09/19/02
Weight : 237 lbs.
Wrist : 7 in
Waist : 45 in
Fat : 76 lbs
Lean Body Mass : 161 lbs
Body Fat : 32%

Workout routine :

My training program :

Day 1 : Upper body workout
Day 2 : Cardio on the treadmill for 45 mins @160 beats (Burning around 450 odd cals)
Day 3 : Lower body workout
Day 4 : same as day 2
Day 5 : same as day 1
Day 6 : same as day 3
Day 7 : 30 mins of freestyle swimming

5x5 like you said is what I am following.

Nutrition :

My diet (this is what I had yesterday) :

No. of meals in a day : 2 (75 % protein after workout)
450 gms. of grilled boneless(breast) chicken in all
12 egg whites
2 medium sized cucumbers and tomatoes
0.176 tbsp of olive oil
Salt 1 tsp
Veg. oil 1 tbsp
1 gallon of water
2 tsp. of ketchup

Fitday stats :
998 cals
30gm fat
14 carbs
160 gms protein
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Things I'm not sure if I'm doing right :

1. Using Xenadrine RFA-1 with my diet and excercise routine. Bro got them for me from the US as they are unavailable here. I dont want to dissapoint my bro by not using them. Then again I want to use it and try it as well if this diet permits it.

2. Doing 45 mins cardio at the gym at around 160 beats at 6 kmh and 4.0 incline. Burning around 455 cals. Cant do your thing coz. my gym head coach is an ass and keep on saying that it is too less or some shit like that which bugs me. He says 45 mins and I didn't want to argue with that ass so doing this.

3. My total cals are only at 1000 right now. I need around 1600 acc. to your program. Cant get it there coz. already mom is working overtime for me (cooking) and then it costs moolah. I had a real tough time convincing mom abt eating 500 gms. chicken and 12 egg whites. Mom thinks I'll bloat up like hell but then I managed to convince her. I cant do supplements no matter what as they cost big time money. Here in India, they cost around 3X times than in America. I cant ask my mom to buy me more food. My parents can simply not afford it. So now, all I can do is add just a few things to my diet. The only options to me right now are Cod Liver Oil ( real cheap here) and Fish liver oil capsules( I'm not so sure abt this.....80% sure that it wouldn't be available here). Olive oil is also no problem.

Pwb, I'm really confident that this thing will work out for me. I just want to make sure that what I'm doing is exactly what you have in mind with ofcourse some modifications(as I cant much money and due to non availability of certain stuff)

Looking forward to your replies........and thanks in advance for posting your program in the first place........I've read many types of programs but for some reason I felt that this one will definetely work.

Cheers

Raj
P.S > I have 3 months supply of Xenadrine
 
They can do all the research in the world and scientific studies, but its the real world results that are the deterning factor bro. Just need to find out what works for each person. Studies are very biased and to many affecting variables are present
 
hey pwb
I read this damn long tread,now I'm really thinking to give a try for this diet.I look pretty decent already but I wanna lower my BF.
Now I'm 175 and aroun 10-12%bf.Would like to go down to 8%.
Right now I'm trying to eat 5-6 meals a day,I'm a college student so the 3 meals per days sounds even better.
So u saying I can't lose muscle??
So could u give me a meal plan on what I'm not starving or would cheat??
Appreciate your help.
 
Pwb:
I just read this thread and would really like to do this diet as well. Do you think you could give me a meal plan or list some foods that are ok to eat versus the ones that are not ok to eat. I realize that the meat is fine, but if I am going to stick to this, I definitely need some variety. From what I gather, for the first 5 days, it is super strict, and then after five days, less so, but what does that mean? and, is it ok if I just lift and do no cardio at all if i want to see an extreme fat loss? here are my stats: 120lbs 22%bf. I really want to see a drop in the bf.
again, you have been very insightful and i really appreciate the time you have taken to be so thourough.
 
Wow, this was started 2 yrs ago. Let me 1st say I stand by some of what I said but that i'm constantly learning and new information is always being brought to the table, so I may not support everything said 2 yrs ago since i've learned so much more now.

molnii, make no mistake about it. As you diet and get leaner, especially below your bodyfat setpoint (level where your body wants to be at) you will lose some muscle if you are losing naturally. No diet or workout can prevent some inevitable muscle loss, but the loss can be minimized. I was actually just talking the other day to Lyle McDonald and Loren Cordain (author of the Paleo Diet www.paleodiet.com ). They both agree meal frequency of 5-6 meals is overrated. For example, eating a decent size portion of meat will keep amino acid release into the blood for at least 8 hrs. after eating. And this whole nonsense on more meals elevating metablic rate is bullshit. Total calories are what matter not meal frequency. Anyway, they agree less meals should be as productive. Lyle actually read some recent research comparing 3 distinct meals vs. small meals every hour. The group eating the 3 meals had better protein synthesis levels than eating every hour. OK, to set the diet up I go to 8 cals per lb. Some use 10-12 to start, but 8 works better for me to get fat loss going reasonably well. I prefer multiplying my weight x 1.5 to get protein. Example

I'm around 200lbs. So 200X8=1600
1.5 X 200 = 300g protein or 1200 cals
1600 - 1200 = 400 cals or 44g fat

So 300g protein, 44g fat. I also add 25-30g fiber (2cals per g to feed bacteria in digestive tract) but dont count it towards totals since cals are low enough to begin w/.

I switch between 2 and 4 meals. So if u wanna eat 3 meals, divide totals by 3. For me that would be about 100g protein, 15g fat and 10g fiber. (And the body CAN digest w/ >90% efficiency LARGE amounts of protein, don't believe the bullshit of 30g max or 60g max, there is NO science behind this) Make sure u include at least 6 fish oil capsules a day, preferable more.

a12345, the food options can be found everywhere. check out www.metabolicdiet.com for what u can eat. Steaks, eggs, turkey, chicken, fish, game meats, vegetables, some nuts. I'd set the diet up the way I wrote above. If you wanna go really extreme i'd follow something similar to nclifter6feet6's extreme fat loss plan. But your metabolism will go to shit and you'll lose muscle. To make it slighly less catabolic and I think more effective, just multiply your weight by 1.5 to get grams of protein, supplement w/ some psyllium husks for fiber, take 6 fish oil caps a day and thats it. Get your protein from chicken, turkey, tuna, shrimp, venison, and other VERY LEAN meats.
Either way I WOULD NOT use any protein drinks as most people have undiscovered allergies/intolerance to milk proteins, casein and whey. The overwhelming majority of people get gas and bloating, even w/ the lactose free proteins. Stick w/ what nature intended, meat (even though grassfed is better than commercial, its still a low better than protein from cows milk).
 
hey pwb
thanx for the useful info,probably I will give a try for it....
do u think could I use Clen on this diet to speed up the fat loss??
 
About the clen, I did NC's diet and used clen..great results. If you decide to use it take a look at the Clen Faq on the anabolic board first.
 
Hey MrMakaveli I already read that thread about the Clen...just one question for you,how high did you go on the Clen??I mean how many tablets max??Just curious cuz this is my first time to try it.Did u just have a 2 week on 2 week off or u use it longer??
thanx for your help.
 
guys it is soooo fucking easy to manipulate with you.
that one guy has theory and does not mean his theory is correct.
i think post work out carbs are ok cause they are not stored as fat. even if u eat icecream and mc donalds after workout u will not get fat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is based on research!
u can read tons of research on this topic if u search on the internet. or go to www.ast-ss.com and read about post work out carbs!

and once and forever to clean up the myth with eskimos: yes they only eat fish and grilled meat. they get many EFA oils. but that does not mean that they are perfectly healthy. they would eat veggies when they would have it. they do not have it. veggies are good for u! tons of fiber and vitamins!
when u see them the most of them are fucking short and chubby!
when did u see one eskimo with perfect body????


PWB: That MD said that bodybuilder should take 20% daily intake of carbs in their food.
what u do is unhealthy! get fucking off from that diet and get your ass on trademill and u will be able to eat some carbs and still loose weight!
i eat only protein + healthy fats and only
carbs post workout. i follow animalbolic diet and works great.

CARBS ARE OK BUT WHEN U TAKE THEM WHEN U NEED THEM!!!!!
 
Last edited:
The point is carbs are NON-ESSENTIAL nutrients. Train your body to run on fats and it will, however how long this will take is known.

Take muscle-growth, whats important carb levels? NO, NITROGEN (Read: Protein) levels. Once your in posotive nitrogen balance, what is more carbs going to do?
 
BUMP for that amazing thread

BTW I wish I could hear a pro-carb diet expert....
 
I am not exactly a pro-carb diet expert, but I will play devil's advocate here (briefly 'cause I'm a little short of time today).

The Masai average 3-5 liters of milk per day. Depending on whether it's goat or cow milk, this is around 180-200g of CARBS per day. The Masai children are also rather fond of honey. Nuff said on that point.

Weston Price (one of my all time favorite observers) also noted that the people of the Hunza valley were the most 'superb physical specimens' of any he had ever seen (including the Masai). Their good health and longevity are legendary.......they eat MAINLY whole grains, dairy and fruit, with meat eaten once or twice a week when it's available.

Both the Masai and the Hunzas eat far fewer calories (on average) than your average western couch potato, and they have times of feast and times of near famine.

Both the Masai and the Hunzas, aside from dietary changes noted by Price, also invariably changed their other lifestyle habits as well (ie less active/more sedentary). It is impossible to disentangle the relative contributions of dietary changes and lifestyle changes to their declining health.

One last quick point, none of these people were 'bodybuilders' and even though they were relatively tall and lean, they were not overly muscular, but again they didn't weight train so who knows?

I think all you can conclude from analyzing the diets and health of different ethnic groups is that humans are an incredibly adaptable species and can thrive on almost any diet as long as it's rich in whole, natural foods and they don't overeat! This is a VERY hard challenge that even the Masai are now failing at when faced with cheap, easy and very yummy carbohydrate based foods readily available.

I 100% agree that endurance athletes can benefit from an increase in relative fat intake, but I for one do not wish to look like a world class marathon runner out of Africa who runs on the smell of an oily rag. The proof is in the pudding, and today's pro bodybuilders are building unbelievably muscular physiques using lots of drugs, carbs, proteins AND fats (almost certainly at cost to their long term health). Once again it just goes to show how adaptable we are! I follow the middle ground because my long term health is important to me, so I stick to low GI, whole food carbs where ever possible (including post workout and excluding cheat days).

Of course, the bottom line for fat loss is to eat fewer calories than you burn, and it hardly matters if you burn carbs, or fat, or both during exercise as long as your total fat burned for the day (including time at rest) is in deficit.
 
MS, good points. I found also that the Masai women followed a different diet than the men. I agree Weston Price's information from the web site and Nutritional Degeneration are great sources. But Lyle recently brought up a good point that looking at peoples physical features isn't the only measure of how to gauge diet. Obviously the book makes a convincing point about limiting refined foods and following a more natural diet.

As you said all that really matters in the end is calories. Get enough protein, get your EFA's, create a calorie defecit and the body really figures out the rest if its low carb or high carb/low fat or low fat. Although I think the evidence is compelling that following a lower carbohydrate diet is better in terms of general health, ease of following the diet, blood sugar control, etc.

Another thing that is huge is carbohydrate refeeds to boost Leptin. Lyle McDonald has done a great job looking at all the research and helping bbers to apply this info to continue fat loss. Fat loading sux for bodybuilders except perhaps rite b4 a show going on stage, but for metabolism benefits there are none. Excess fat doesnt increase the fat burning pathways, a calorie and carb defecit does. Fat loading allows a 95+% absorption of fats and if calories are eaten in excess of those burned in a given day can lead to quite a bit of fat storage. Also there is no real rise in metabolism and no real rise in leptin in large high fat meals.
 
MS, good points. I found also that the Masai women followed a different diet than the men. I agree Weston Price's information from the web site and Nutritional Degeneration are great sources. But Lyle recently brought up a good point that looking at peoples physical features isn't the only measure of how to gauge diet. Obviously the book makes a convincing point about limiting refined foods and following a more natural diet.

As you said all that really matters in the end is calories. Get enough protein, get your EFA's, create a calorie defecit and the body really figures out the rest if its low carb or high carb/low fat or low fat. Although I think the evidence is compelling that following a lower carbohydrate diet is better in terms of general health, ease of following the diet, blood sugar control, etc.

Another thing that is huge is carbohydrate refeeds to boost Leptin. Lyle McDonald has done a great job looking at all the research and helping bbers to apply this info to continue fat loss. Fat loading sux for bodybuilders except perhaps rite b4 a show going on stage, but for metabolism benefits there are none. Excess fat doesnt increase the fat burning pathways, a calorie and carb defecit does. Fat loading allows a 95+% absorption of fats and if calories are eaten in excess of those burned in a given day can lead to quite a bit of fat storage. Also there is no real rise in metabolism and no real rise in leptin in large high fat meals. ALthough I did come across a study that showed high fat meals cause a raise in leptin greater than lower fat ones, the rise is miniscule and Lyle believed the effect would have no noticable impact on leptin levels during dieting.
 
Yeah, both the Masai and the Hunzas 'fatten up' their young women before marriage so they will have optimal fertility. This is mainly done by increasing their dairy intake. Young men also go throuh a bizarre ritual where they sit around for ???6 or 8 weeks??? and stuff their faces with nothing but milk while sitting on their butts all day. The object of this ritual is to see who can gain THE MOST FAT during that period. The winner of this contest is held in very high esteem (if he doesn't die first!). These guys can gain HUGE amounts of fat this way in an incredibly short period of time, but several months after the competition they have lost all of the fat and are lean again thanks to drinking less milk and getting off their butts! Make no mistake about it....milk and dairy products can EASILY make you fat if you overconsume them, just like any other food.

Refeeds are the best thing since sliced bread for keeping metabolism high while dieting :) I find they work best if you have moderate carb intake to keep insulin sensitivity and glycogen synthase activity high so the refeeds can be used maximally (rather than a CKD where carb-ups are compromised by high fat/no carb diets). A high protein/low fat diet also seems to keep insulin sensitivity and glycogen synthase high. But any way you look at it, processed carbs are CRAP and should not be eaten in any great quantities by anyone interested in their long term health IMHO.
 
Just thought I'd trhow in that I've tried fat loading and it did just what it says: loaded fat onto my stomach. Didn't do shit for metabolism. Pw you're right about it being beneficial only for shows.
 
Bump...
I have been "cutting" for a month and I have gotten fatter so I am willing to tweak my diet. How many cals should I be eating to cut PwB? I am 5'11" @194 and around 21%blubber fat.
 
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