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tren and ectomorphs don't mix for bulking....

hammertime30

hammertime30

New member
I'm not bragging one bit fellas trust me when I say this, but I'm currently 3 weeks into my tren cycle at 500mg per week and it's starting to drive me nuts.

I started the cycle at 176lbs 9.5% bf. My goal is to hit 195lbs by the summer. I'm fine with 9% bf, but I just measure myself today and I'm currently under 5% bf at 180lbs. I was curious as to why I was having such a hard time putting on weight. I'm intaking about 4000 cals which includes 120g of fat. and I'm drinking about 150ozs of water a day. On top of it, I've been purposely eating fast food here an there so that my diet wouldn't be too clean being that I'm an ectomorph and can get away with extra fat.......I can't sleep throughout the night because I'm waking up every 2 hours to take a pis....So basically tren is stripping away all fat and water it can find....Yes I'm shreded like no tomorrow, but damit, I was already cut and wasn't trying to drop bf.....I want 195 and that's all my concern is at this time....Being an ectomorph I had to fight for the 9.5% bf already.....Looks like I'm going to have to retire tren for the remainder of the cycle and bump up test to about 1g.....................So for all you ectomorphs that are trying to put on some serious mass.....tren may not be the idea candidate for the job!!!! Just my opinion..........
 
so....................wot's ya beef??????


me thinks youse beeez braggin' !
 
rnch said:
so....................wot's ya beef??????


me thinks youse beeez braggin' !
Click to expand...

My beef is that tren is taking away my weight faster than I can gain it....I've been down to 4% bf before when I was younger and have no desire to go back to that......it's a pain in the azz and is very unhealthy..........mass includes fat and in order for me to hit 195lb by the summer I will also need fat or else it will take me another year to reach that weight....A male that don't competes ideally shouldn't be less than 7% bf..........so like I said before.....I'm not bragging one bit, but rather sharing my experience with other ectomorphs that may be thinking about tren for bulking...........
 
Hey, no offense, but :doublefi: I hate you!
J/K, yeah tren speeds up your metabolism so much. That's a lot in 3 weeks though. Are you sure you measure correctly?
 
i have little sympathy for all you fast meatbolism guys.....wanna trade for 6 months or so?
 
Makavelli said:
Hey, no offense, but :doublefi: I hate you!
J/K, yeah tren speeds up your metabolism so much. That's a lot in 3 weeks though. Are you sure you measure correctly?
Click to expand...


Yes, I used the same calipers that I used before I started this cycle...when I first started I measured between notchs 3-4 which is 6-8mm....now I'm measuring between notchs 1-2 which is 2-4mm.....there is some tolerance there and nothing is 100% accurate, but either way....you can see that I've dropped some serious fat..........take the average, I went from 7mm to 3mm....or some where between 3-4mm.....
 
So you say your eating 4000 cals aday??? Wow when I do tren I could hardly get myself to eat. Im sorta like you as far as a hard gainer, but tren suppreses my appetite big time. More power to ya if you can eat that much.
 
hammertime30 said:
Yes, I used the same calipers that I used before I started this cycle...when I first started I measured between notchs 3-4 which is 6-8mm....now I'm measuring between notchs 1-2 which is 2-4mm.....there is some tolerance there and nothing is 100% accurate, but either way....you can see that I've dropped some serious fat..........take the average, I went from 7mm to 3mm....or some where between 3-4mm.....
Click to expand...

Bro, going by the numbers you went from having appx 160lb of LBM to around 171lbs LBM. Thats putting on "weight" in my book
 
ya he lost body fat and weighs more... that should be happy time..
sorry but i have to say you need to eat more.... ( thats all eat more ) also check out..
http://www.mmsfitness.com/
might have to register... but he has bulking articals..
after you log in you can just type bulking basics in the search...
 
"this thread is useless without pics"


before and after, please.
 
DiamondCutCows said:
Bro, going by the numbers you went from having appx 160lb of LBM to around 171lbs LBM. Thats putting on "weight" in my book
Click to expand...

Exactly! Thinking the same damn thing. Hammer - you're shedding fat and putting on muscle if your bodyfat calculations are accurate. That's impressive!

But if you wanted a strictly mass cycle, why the tren? Why not a test,dbol,deca/eq stack?
 
Thats a bragging in disguise to me. Dont worry bro, I am the same way and brag about it all the time. I stay ripped by eating ice cream and late night pizza, Nothing wrong with bragging. If girls brag all the time, so can we :)
 
badslinky said:
So you say your eating 4000 cals aday??? Wow when I do tren I could hardly get myself to eat. Im sorta like you as far as a hard gainer, but tren suppreses my appetite big time. More power to ya if you can eat that much.
Click to expand...

take 2 B12s a day bro along with multivits, Vit C, Magnesium, B6 and you can eat like a horse...........
 
BOOEY said:
Exactly! Thinking the same damn thing. Hammer - you're shedding fat and putting on muscle if your bodyfat calculations are accurate. That's impressive!

But if you wanted a strictly mass cycle, why the tren? Why not a test,dbol,deca/eq stack?
Click to expand...

I understand that I gained....but it's the bf index that I don't like......the lower my bf gets the higher the maintainance.....I naturally carry low bf but when I drop too low, my strength and energy goes with it.....and I have to eat every 1.5 hours just to keep from getting a headache......I like having bf in the range of 8-9% because I can sleep through the night without waking up starving and feeling weak..........
 
rnch said:
"this thread is useless without pics"


before and after, please.
Click to expand...

don't have before pics bro for I never cared about it....just wanted to hit 195 and be happy with it......I know how I look so it's no big deal to me.....however I will take some pics later today and post them.............
 
even if you think you are eating enough... .. Well guess you need to eat more..
how much protein carbs and fat .. are in every meal?? do you write it down??
do it... for a couple weeks at least... and look at it .. you might suprise yourself
 
DiamondCutCows said:
Bro, going by the numbers you went from having appx 160lb of LBM to around 171lbs LBM. Thats putting on "weight" in my book
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I'll bet any amount of money that his method of bodyfat measurement is shit and inaccurate.
 
ohashi said:
Yeah, but I'll bet any amount of money that his method of bodyfat measurement is shit and inaccurate.
Click to expand...

don't hate bro....I don't have to lie or make up shit....my doc measured my bf at 4% 8 years ago.....so yes I can drop to that again if I want to....If it's inaccurate...that's fine, but regardless I dropped 3mm in bf rather it's 4%, 6% 10%....It's still 3mm dropped.............you should like a little jealous chick!
 
Mr_MAX said:
even if you think you are eating enough... .. Well guess you need to eat more..
how much protein carbs and fat .. are in every meal?? do you write it down??
do it... for a couple weeks at least... and look at it .. you might suprise yourself
Click to expand...

when it comes to dieting, I'm locked......I don't write anything down, but rather made up an excel spead sheet with all the formulas for calculating, protein, carbs, fat, potassium and sodium and keep very tight track of it all.....all I have to do is type in the measurement dosage for what ever I'm eating and it calculates it for me.....I'm not an amateur at this.....trust me!!!
give me your email address and I'll email you a copy....................
 
hammertime30 said:
when it comes to dieting, I'm locked......I don't write anything down, but rather made up an excel spead sheet with all the formulas for calculating, protein, carbs, fat, potassium and sodium and keep very tight track of it all.....all I have to do is type in the measurement dosage for what ever I'm eating and it calculates it for me.....I'm not an amateur at this.....trust me!!!
give me your email address and I'll email you a copy....................
Click to expand...

I have the same shit, lol...Most people dont get it though
 
You should've known this going in when you decided to run tren. You can only blame yourself for your results. I've stated time and time again how I dont like to use tren for bulking..... now you know why. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is in how they set up their cycles for what they're trying to achieve. You'll never see me run var/primo/tren for a bulk cycle.
 
If you're an ectomorph you should be getting 25 cals per lb so upwards of 4500 cals.
 
Hey, I see you have the Ionic Pro, hammer. Does it work good?

Also, you're not running any test?d-bol?. Just Tren?
I don't know where you got the idea that Tren wouldn't lower bf, decrease boat, and speed up your metabolism. It also ruins your appetite, hence cutting, or LBM aas cycle. I think if you add some test to it you should be fine.
 
toxicsambo said:
Hey, I see you have the Ionic Pro, hammer. Does it work good?

Also, you're not running any test?d-bol?. Just Tren?
I don't know where you got the idea that Tren wouldn't lower bf, decrease boat, and speed up your metabolism. It also ruins your appetite, hence cutting, or LBM aas cycle. I think if you add some test to it you should be fine.
Click to expand...


Ionic Pro is great....just needs to be cleaned every 4-5 days.....As far as cycle....I knew that tren builds lean muscle mass however didn't expect to drop that much in bf with 4000 cals and 120g of fat..........Appetite?? have no problem with eating....I get hungry every 2 hours on the dot and that's with 150ozs of water......I never run a cycle without test....test is 300mg per week right now tren about 450mg.....I'm going to shift it to 200mg tren (or I may just drop it all together) and 750mg test to see if I can get a little more mass going.........In order to do that I need more test so I have to see if I can get some more rather quickly first.....
 
Hammer how tall are you? Lookin good in those pics...I wouldnt complain about gaining weight and losing fat at the same time! :)
 
ChromeCyan said:
Hammer how tall are you? Lookin good in those pics...I wouldnt complain about gaining weight and losing fat at the same time! :)
Click to expand...

Thanks bro....5'9 1/2.....My thing is I need 15lbs of mass by summer in order to satify my goal....not that I mind losing fat, but remember you are restricted to how many cycles you can run a year....each cycle counts so if I lost 5lbs of fat when I didn't want to....that sets me back....I set a goal and I go for it full blown....I went with tren because I tried dbol/eq/test and lost 6lbs 7 days after the cycle was over after gaining 13lbs in 10 weeks......so I wanted something that didn't aromatize so much and I will never do deca (ever)......Right now I'm solid as hell and I like it, however I only have 3 more weeks that I can run tren (or will run tren) so if I'm losing weight before I can gain it, it will take me til next year to reach my goal..........195lbs @ 8-9% bf is not bad at all and that's what I was working for......If I drop cals...I can shed fat without tren very easily so shedding fat is not an issue....I want and need mass......some don't understand that and that's ok....but that's what I want....I know my body very well...and that's all that matters.........
 
It obviously comes down to diet. I know the drastic effects of tren and BF reduction, thats why I stack it with Test and Dbol.
Obviously 4000 cals a day are not enough. Bump it up to 5000 and then 6000 and see what happens. At some point your cals in will exceed cals out and YOU WILL GAIN WEIGHT.

BTW picts look great, nice work.
 
Makavelli said:
Hey, no offense, but :doublefi: I hate you!
J/K, yeah tren speeds up your metabolism so much. That's a lot in 3 weeks though. Are you sure you measure correctly?
Click to expand...

I agree! :doublefi:

I wish it was that easy for me to strip away BF.

I have no sympathy for you Hammer.

I can't touch that....:xeye:



DIV

:chomp:
 
hammertime30 said:
I understand that I gained....but it's the bf index that I don't like......the lower my bf gets the higher the maintainance.....I naturally carry low bf but when I drop too low, my strength and energy goes with it.....and I have to eat every 1.5 hours just to keep from getting a headache......I like having bf in the range of 8-9% because I can sleep through the night without waking up starving and feeling weak..........
Click to expand...
i know what you mean bro, i caught a lot of hell from the guys here when i told them i had super low body fat, i too am an ecto and very hard gainer. these guys all thought i was braggin and were talkin shit.
yeah if i go more than 2 hours without a meal, i get real weak and lightheaded and very irritable. it sucks having super low bf, i mean it looks cool like some kinda abercrombie model, chicks dig it, but it's a maintenance nightmare.
 
LVTitan said:
i know what you mean bro, i caught a lot of hell from the guys here when i told them i had super low body fat, i too am an ecto and very hard gainer. these guys all thought i was braggin and were talkin shit.
yeah if i go more than 2 hours without a meal, i get real weak and lightheaded and very irritable. it sucks having super low bf, i mean it looks cool like some kinda abercrombie model, chicks dig it, but it's a maintenance nightmare.
Click to expand...

I understand TitaNugga......

Just remember, work with what you have. Cut up your physique to the utmost and you'll get women without trying. Just remember to keep eating meals every 2-3 hours and your nitrogen balance will be fine.

Yeah, don't brag about 2% BF again, that shit had kids coming out of the woodwork to attack you.......It was funny shit! :lmao:

Like flies on shit!




DIV

:chomp:
 
hammertime30 said:
Ionic Pro is great....just needs to be cleaned every 4-5 days.....As far as cycle....I knew that tren builds lean muscle mass however didn't expect to drop that much in bf with 4000 cals and 120g of fat..........Appetite?? have no problem with eating....I get hungry every 2 hours on the dot and that's with 150ozs of water......I never run a cycle without test....test is 300mg per week right now tren about 450mg.....I'm going to shift it to 200mg tren (or I may just drop it all together) and 750mg test to see if I can get a little more mass going.........In order to do that I need more test so I have to see if I can get some more rather quickly first.....
Click to expand...


I would think that if you give yourself time and be patient, the mass gains will come. Why wouldn't you want to lose bf and gain LBM? You look good in those pics, but not shredded. Shit, 15 lbs by the summer is not hard to do. You want quality muscle, not puffy meat. I say stick with what you're doing and just eat a little more.

Btw: Thanx for the Ionic Pro info. I'm looking to get one, but I didn't know if it was a p.o.s.
 
Last edited:
toxicsambo said:
I would think that if you give yourself time and be patient, the mass gains will come. Why wouldn't you want to lose bf and gain LBM? You look good in those pics, but not shredded. Shit, 15 lbs by the summer is not hard to do. You want quality muscle, not puffy meat. I say stick with what you're doing and just eat a little more.

Btw: Thanx for the Ionic Pro info. I'm looking to get one, but I didn't know if it was a p.o.s.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between competition level and the level I'm at....in those pics, I'm holding water and gladly so, but at the current bf level if I removed the excess water then yes I would be stage shredded (fat and water is not the same)....a guy at the gym who trains BBers told me that I could compete at the amatuer level now if I wanted to...of course in my weight class....once you get to 5% and remove excess then your skin would be what is called paper thin....Let me ask you.....if you got down to 6% bf would you want to continue to lose more bf?? At 5% bf maintainance, health and well being becomes and issue.....You start feeling weak and fatigue all the time and if you get stuck without food for more than 3 hours....headaches and dizziness kicks in.....I used to have this problem all the time and don't wish to experience it again!!...I know those who never experienced it don't understand...and wish they can carry low bf...but carrying extremely low bf for a prolonged period of time becomes a major health issue.........Infact....there was one time that I went 3-4 hours without food even after eating all day because of my job and blacked out....It's not as great as it looks....
 
hammertime30 said:
there was one time that I went 3-4 hours without food even after eating all day because of my job and blacked out....It's not as great as it looks....
Click to expand...

IMO, that is NEVER worth it.

If that's what it's come to for some of you guys, I sincerely think you need to find another hobby/profession.



DIV

:chomp:
 
DIVISION said:
IMO, that is NEVER worth it.

If that's what it's come to for some of you guys, I sincerely think you need to find another hobby/profession.



DIV

:chomp:
Click to expand...
HUH??...It's my genetics and I can't change that...I think we all know that if you have a real job/career that there are times that you can not eat every 2 hours...which is why I said that I have no desire to go back to 4% bf.....It's bad for your health....at 8-9% I have major energy...strength and can go a bit longer without food and not feel like shit....I didn't ask for it....it was given to me......If i didn't lift I would be a freakin' stick even if I ate taco bell every day!!!
 
toxicsambo said:
jfc. Then junk the Tren. Actually just send it to me for safe keeping. :)
Click to expand...

I'm sure you will hold it for me....Actually I'm just going to hold it until I reach my goal of 195lbs and if I want to cut up or down which ever way you want to put it, then I may try it again, but then again, I may not need it......I'll see then.....
 
hammertime30 said:
Here are the pics bro.....I'm not a pro poser and don't have a pro camera man..........You tell me what bf % I look...........
Click to expand...

Dude you look lean and hard as shit. Roll with it.
 
hammertime30 said:
HUH??...It's my genetics and I can't change that...I think we all know that if you have a real job/career that there are times that you can not eat every 2 hours...which is why I said that I have no desire to go back to 4% bf.....It's bad for your health....at 8-9% I have major energy...strength and can go a bit longer without food and not feel like shit....I didn't ask for it....it was given to me......If i didn't lift I would be a freakin' stick even if I ate taco bell every day!!!
Click to expand...

Settle down, MCHammer.

You misunderstood my post. You can't account for genetics, but you can prepare your food ahead of time so you'll be able to eat every couple hours. I didn't mean for my post to you all hyper and frisky.....settle down.



DIV

:chomp:
 
DIVISION said:
Settle down, MCHammer.

You misunderstood my post. You can't account for genetics, but you can prepare your food ahead of time so you'll be able to eat every couple hours. I didn't mean for my post to you all hyper and frisky.....settle down.



DIV

:chomp:
Click to expand...

Sorry...I misunderstood...but remember I'm pushing 500mg of tren so you know what that does!! :evil: :chomp: :p
 
I'm asrtaight ecto and tren made me gain weight and an insane amonut of strength.
 
I dont understand what your problem is here. If you dont like what the tren is doing for you... then drop it and throw in some dbol or something.
 
Outtlaw said:
I dont understand what your problem is here. If you dont like what the tren is doing for you... then drop it and throw in some dbol or something.
Click to expand...


Ok...let me reiterate what this post was about.....and if you don't get it after this one....you're not going to.....I observed that in 3 weeks I was not gaining weight according to the scale after moving 4lbs while eating over 4000 cals a day....at my current body weight, 4000 cals is enough to gain....now....i decided to measure my bf and realized that I dropped 3mm in bf which is something that I was not trying to do....I liked my current bf % at 9% and was quite happy with it.....my goal is to reach 195lbs by the summer and that's it......because you are restricted to how many cycles you can run a year time is sensitive(at least to me for when I set a goal....it's mine for the taking)...........now....I need another 15lbs in 3 months meaning that after this cycle is over....I may not be able to run another cycle by then because I will need about 2.5 months for recovery....so I would like to get at least 10lbs more from this current cycle, but tren seems to be preventing it from happening being that it's eating away at my bf quickly and we all know that mass includes fat!!!......I was only making an observation for all the other ectos who may be thinking about going with tren for a mass building cycle....Yes I'm dropping tren and making the adjustments to my cycle and diet as we speak....however you can not and should not go from 4000 cals per week straight to 5000 cals because the only thing that is going to happen is your body is going to flush the extra cals down the toilet due to the instant shock....you should gradually increase your cals over the course of 2 weeks so that you body will have time to adjust thus utilize the extra cals more efficiently.......This is not my first tren cycle, however tren didn't have this drastic effect on me at 225-300mg per week......did I clear it up??
 
Outtlaw said:
I dont understand what your problem is here. If you dont like what the tren is doing for you... then drop it and throw in some dbol or something.
Click to expand...

by the way.....too much water retention with dbol....I want real weight and not something that I'm going to lose in 7 days.....
 
hammertime30 said:
I was only making an observation for all the other ectos who may be thinking about going with tren for a mass building cycle....Yes I'm dropping tren and making the adjustments to my cycle and diet as we speak.
Click to expand...
Ok, that makes sense. That's all I was suggesting. It sounded like you were just bitching about how the cycle wasnt giving you the results you wanted, all the while not willing to make any changes to it.
 
LOL all i read was the first post and I know EXACTLY what you're talking about!! I'm an ectomorph as well and just got done running tren in my cycle. Cycle looks like this:
Test Enth, 750mg/wk, 1-12wks
Tren Ace, 100mg/eod, 1-6wks

I'm in week 8 and shredded like nobodys business. 5% bf while bulking, eating 5k cals, lots of junk food and fast food, and STILL ripped! I've put on quite a bit of weight tho and I've got veins extending from bigger veins, and veins coming off those! Strength is thruy the roof and so is sex drive. I'll run tren with every cycle I believe. I enjoy being ripped up, even when bulking!

Chris
 
khemix said:
LOL all i read was the first post and I know EXACTLY what you're talking about!! I'm an ectomorph as well and just got done running tren in my cycle. Cycle looks like this:
Test Enth, 750mg/wk, 1-12wks
Tren Ace, 100mg/eod, 1-6wks

I'm in week 8 and shredded like nobodys business. 5% bf while bulking, eating 5k cals, lots of junk food and fast food, and STILL ripped! I've put on quite a bit of weight tho and I've got veins extending from bigger veins, and veins coming off those! Strength is thruy the roof and so is sex drive. I'll run tren with every cycle I believe. I enjoy being ripped up, even when bulking!

Chris
Click to expand...

That's a good thing if that's what you are looking for.....I just didn't expect to drop so much bf at my current calorie count......How much total weight did you put on for the cycle? Plus you are running higher test and lower tren then I am which is why I'm thinking that I'm going to switch from 500mg tren/300mg test...to 750mg test and maybe 150-200mg tren....but, then again I may just drop the tren for the remainder of the cycle........I have one more day to decide.....my next dosage is due Mon.....and I also need to work my calorie count up from 4000 to 5000 over the next 2 weeks.............
 
hammertime30 said:
That's a good thing if that's what you are looking for.....I just didn't expect to drop so much bf at my current calorie count......How much total weight did you put on for the cycle? Plus you are running higher test and lower tren then I am which is why I'm thinking that I'm going to switch from 500mg tren/300mg test...to 750mg test and maybe 150-200mg tren....but, then again I may just drop the tren for the remainder of the cycle........I have one more day to decide.....my next dosage is due Mon.....and I also need to work my calorie count up from 4000 to 5000 over the next 2 weeks.............
Click to expand...

Um this is only my second run with tren, but on my first one (75mg/eod) I gained probably 15lbs and dropped a few % of bodyfat. The test should definantly always be higher than most any other compound, especially if you're looking to bulk. I'd suggest you run 750mg of test and aprx 300mg/tren a week. It helps keep the water off from the test and keeps your pumps insane and keeps the strength going up strongly. You're very welcome to PM me or IM me on AIM at 'ii vzxxxzv ii' and I'll chat about it with you.

Chris
 
no matter what though... if you are losing weight you are not eating enough.. you want to keep the fat or gain more weight you need more calories... it might suck but that is how it is... ( after the cycle i am sure you can add back the fat anyway )
but if you are taking in 4000 guess what you need 4500 or 5000 it is just the way it is.... ( hope you like to eat if you dont ... sure is a waste.. )
 
Mr_MAX said:
no matter what though... if you are losing weight you are not eating enough.. you want to keep the fat or gain more weight you need more calories... it might suck but that is how it is... ( after the cycle i am sure you can add back the fat anyway )
but if you are taking in 4000 guess what you need 4500 or 5000 it is just the way it is.... ( hope you like to eat if you dont ... sure is a waste.. )
Click to expand...

I eat to live not live to eat, however I do what ever it takes to reach a goal once I set it.......Remember though.....I didn't lose weight I lost fat...according to the scale, I went from 176 to 181....and dropped 3mm in fat according to the calipers......that's a net of 10lbs gained....I will drop the dosage of tren from 500mg to about 150-200mg per week (just enough to keep off the water retention) and increase test from 300mg to about 750mg.....cals will be up to 4500 by the end of next week and I'll work up to 5000 cals by the end of the 2nd week..........I will change my training from 1 body part every 7 days to 1 body part every 5 days, however i will drop a set per excercise per training day......that will give me a good 10 weeks on test to pack on some more mass.............
 
Outtlaw said:
Ok, that makes sense. That's all I was suggesting. It sounded like you were just bitching about how the cycle wasnt giving you the results you wanted, all the while not willing to make any changes to it.
Click to expand...

No....I'm not the kind that bitch about things I do wrong or think I'm doing right, but rather change what needs to changed or what I think needs to be changed....just sharing experience......
 
hammertime30 said:
No....I'm not the kind that bitch about things I do wrong or think I'm doing right, but rather change what needs to changed or what I think needs to be changed....just sharing experience......
Click to expand...

I agree........the only behavioural flaw I've seen you display so far has been your hyperactivity which tends to make you react before you think.




DIV

:chomp:
 
DiamondCutCows said:
I have the same shit, lol...Most people dont get it though
Click to expand...

Same here....I've passed around my excel sheet to others I know....and they are very confused as to how to punch in the numbers....I like my sheet because I can just type in how much in grams I'm going to eat and I get total protein, carb and fat for the day....and exactly the percentage of each.....then I play with the numbers until I get the diet that I desire and after that...start cooking without having to think about it.........
 
lost 15 pounds of fat in about 5 weeks with tren, stacked with test. just added deka to thre cycle today looking to add some more strength and lean mass. im 5 ft 8 227 lbs right now down from 245 5 weeks ago. currently at about 20 % bf. sound like a good cycle ?
 
rnch said:
i have little sympathy for all you fast meatbolism guys.....wanna trade for 6 months or so?
Click to expand...


I 2nd that! LOL!
 
Anyone that tells you tren and ectomorphs dont mix - they're retarded.

I'll never run anything other than test & tren.

This is tren enanthate:
01.20.07.JPG
 
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