Transdermal Application

[blut wump]

Before I start, this is just idle musing that crossed my mind while I was falling asleep. I've not looked into any aspect of it.

I was wondering what the uptake was likely to be from using gear as a lotion in small amounts. Testo-gels deliver about 5mg from a squeeze of the tube but what would you get from applying a ml of, say, some test prop at 50mg/ml to the skin.

With the current prices of raw hormone powders being so low and the fact that you can cut production corners due to a low need for sterility, I roughly estimate being able to make a quarter pint of 100mg/ml prop aftershave for less than $20, even with including BA and BB to help with solution and ongoing preservation. You could even add a scent of your choice and increase the BA to act as an astringent. It'd be cheaper than buying Old Spice.

There are social implications regarding allowing contact with your skin afterwards and accidentally driving women wild if they hug you too vigourously but...

 

[Ulter]

You're going to waste 90% of your gear. If you delivered 10% you'd be doing well. You have to have a delivery solution that is made for steroids.

 

[blut wump]

I guess 10% is a shade too low, even for an aftershave that not only makes you seem more manly but also makes you be more manly.

 

[mm107]

i believe primordial performace claims that there solution delivers 40% of the hormone into the skin under good conditions (shaven, etc)

i was thinking the same think blut.

lets say only 40 % of 250mg could be absorbed (test e) = 100mg/Test E absorbed

So since powders are so cheap why not double to dosage to 500mg/ml and then 40% of 500mg = 200mg. You could easily play with the numbers. I just dont know HOW cheap powders are domesticly so i havta do some reasearch.

But i would actually rather stick myself to make sure im getting 100% absorbion ya know....

but i would love to throw a multivitamin/ephedrine hcl/yohimbe hcl/green tea ETC into a morning shave and throw in on in the morning to wake the fuck up =]

 

[the-short-one]

test prop is cheap cheap.

I made a transdermal for a couple of people using 99% isopropol alcohol (just enough to disolve the test prop) and Emu oil. Granted - these are people who do not use injectable or oral steroids at all - and within 3-4 days they had more energy and complained of being 'sweaty' all the time. lol

I dosed one for a man at only 50mg/ml and another for an older woman at only 10mg/ml. They both gave me similar feedback (and they don't know each other) - so something was definitely happening...

The woman is still using it - 3 times a week. She says she doesn't feel tired in the mornings any more, and her aches and pains (stiffness associated with arthiritis) have eased a lot. The only complaint she has is that her skin is slightly oily and her sweat smells if she uses it more than 3 days a week. (rubs it on inside of wrists after shower.)

 

[Ulter]

test prop is cheap cheap.

I made a transdermal for a couple of people using 99% isopropol alcohol (just enough to disolve the test prop) and Emu oil. Granted - these are people who do not use injectable or oral steroids at all - and within 3-4 days they had more energy and complained of being 'sweaty' all the time. lol

I dosed one for a man at only 50mg/ml and another for an older woman at only 10mg/ml. They both gave me similar feedback (and they don't know each other) - so something was definitely happening...

The woman is still using it - 3 times a week. She says she doesn't feel tired in the mornings any more, and her aches and pains (stiffness associated with arthiritis) have eased a lot. The only complaint she has is that her skin is slightly oily and her sweat smells if she uses it more than 3 days a week. (rubs it on inside of wrists after shower.)

The Upjohn test gel for women delivers less than 1mg/day and gets the same results. Your solution is delivering about the same. Women are affected greatly by hormones. It only takes 1mcg of estradiol (estrogen) per day to make changes in mood, water retention, and fertility. She should not apply it anywhere but her legs. She will grow hair where she puts it eventually so she should put it on a spot she shaves anyway.

i believe primordial performace claims that there solution delivers 40% of the hormone into the skin under good conditions (shaven, etc)

That's a gross overstatement.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

The Upjohn test gel for women delivers less than 1mg/day and gets the same results. Your solution is delivering about the same. Women are affected greatly by hormones. It only takes 1mcg of estradiol per day to make changes in mood, water retention, and fertility.

what about for the dood that was using it and experiencing positive effects?

Seems kinda promising... but not in the high amounts that people prefer to cycle with though.

 

[mm107]

That's a gross overstatement.

maybe, ill be honest, im only retyping what i have read.

i still wouldnt use it for my gear tho, my epehdrine/yohimbe sure would.

 

[Ulter]

He is getting a little more than what a young male would make naturally. It will have some positive affect. But again, he's getting about the same as androgel for men.

 

[the-short-one]

He is getting a little more than what a young male would make naturally. It will have some positive affect. But again, he's getting about the same as androgel for men.

so - back of the knees for the woman? (she's in her 60s)


the man is 40 years old. His natty test production is down, anyway - so I figured even a little would make a difference...

 

[Ulter]

Back of her knees are fine. Upjohn suggests thighs.

Yes, you're right. At age 40, 5mg-7mg day would feel wonderful.

 

[blut wump]

With a bit of effort, you can make prop at around 200mg/ml, or so I've seen reported. At 10% uptake, a couple of ml per day would make for 40mg per day. It's a valid light cycle for someone averse to injections or, possibly, travelling and unable to do injections. It might be possible to go to higher concentrations since there's no injection pain to worry about.

I've no idea what it would do to the skin.

Nice work, TSO.

 

[Ulter]

I'm not agin it. I just had Macro whip up a batch of the solution we use for P Seven and added test for my friend to use. I was only trying to get the point across that your percentages are going to be very low if you don't have an advanced penetration enhancing formula.

 

[al420]

your percentages are going to be very low if you don't have an advanced penetration enhancing formula.

like Viagra?

 

[Ulter]

On steroids.

 

[mm107]

hey ulter how much do you think the absorption rate of AIFM is? it seems to work great, so im just wondering, is it like overdosed so the correct ammount would be absorbed?

 

[Ulter]

We're showing an uptake in the 30's. It's not dosed based on what's in it. It's dosed based on a formula that considers the uptake percentage. I can't be real specific how it's done. In order to keep the solution a trade secret we veil the ingredients with general names to satisfy the FDA but not really say what's in it.

 

[Primordial Performance]

We're showing an uptake in the 30's. It's not dosed based on what's in it. It's dosed based on a formula that considers the uptake percentage. I can't be real specific how it's done. In order to keep the solution a trade secret we veil the ingredients with general names to satisfy the FDA but not really say what's in it.

So you think 40% absorption is grossly over-estimated for our topical?

Our topical formula is superior to the AIFM topical in several ways; mainly by our addition of a more compatible skin oil, vasodilators, and an occlusive layer. If your going to claim 30% with AIFM, you have no right to challenge our claims.

Thanks buddy.

-Pp

 

[Ulter]

No it's not superior. That statement is based on "because I say so" and nothing else.
1. You haven't tested the uptake of your solution.
2. You haven't tested AIFM
3. You don't know what's in AIFM's solution

You would have to have done at least 2 of those 3 and you haven't done any.

Yes 40% is a gross overstatement. But it really doesn't matter.

 

[DBBT]

No it's not superior. That statement is based on "because I say so" and nothing else.
1. You haven't tested the uptake of your solution.
2. You haven't tested AIFM
3. You don't know what's in AIFM's solution

You would have to have done at least 2 of those 3 and you haven't done any.

Yes 40% is a gross overstatement. But it really doesn't matter.

ouch!

 

[Primordial Performance]

No it's not superior. That statement is based on "because I say so" and nothing else.
1. You haven't tested the uptake of your solution.
2. You haven't tested AIFM
3. You don't know what's in AIFM's solution

You would have to have done at least 2 of those 3 and you haven't done any.

Yes 40% is a gross overstatement. But it really doesn't matter.

I only know what I see on the AIFM ingredients list, and I know the ingredients all too well. The AIFM platform is using the kind of technology that we used 4-5 years ago. Since then, we’ve developed a much improved formula.

Unfortunately I can’t divulge the testing that’s been done on our formula since its proprietary, and we dont want any copycats. But, I guess you could say the proof is in the pudding.

-Pp

 

[Primordial Performance]

i believe primordial performace claims that there solution delivers 40% of the hormone into the skin under good conditions (shaven, etc)

i was thinking the same think blut.

lets say only 40 % of 250mg could be absorbed (test e) = 100mg/Test E absorbed

So since powders are so cheap why not double to dosage to 500mg/ml and then 40% of 500mg = 200mg. You could easily play with the numbers. I just dont know HOW cheap powders are domesticly so i havta do some reasearch.

But i would actually rather stick myself to make sure im getting 100% absorbion ya know....

but i would love to throw a multivitamin/ephedrine hcl/yohimbe hcl/green tea ETC into a morning shave and throw in on in the morning to wake the fuck up =]

BTW, I say 40% is possible with a base compound, not test enanthate.

-Pp

 

[mm107]

BTW, I say 40% is possible with a base compound, not test enanthate.

-Pp

Thanks for clearing that up

so would it be 40% of the actual powders (hormones) jw

 

[Primordial Performance]

Thanks for clearing that up

so would it be 40% of the actual powders (hormones) jw

If the hormones are disolved a 40% absorption is possible.

20mg/ml seems to be ideal concentration for most hormones.. but the more you can solvate the better. However if the hormones are not disolved (sunk to the bottom), then throwing more powder in will not help.

-Pp

 

[Ulter]

The ingredients listed would not tell you at all what's in the solution. You should know that by now. You keep making statements and taking steps that would lead one to believe you're pretty much a newbie at this.
Enjoy your pudding.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

However if the hormones are not disolved (sunk to the bottom)-Pp

aka supersaturation

 

[Primordial Performance]

The ingredients listed would not tell you at all what's in the solution. You should know that by now. You keep making statements and taking steps that would lead one to believe you're pretty much a newbie at this.
Enjoy your pudding.

Right, Im a newbie… lol.

So, anymore questions about TDS compounding?

-Pp

 

[mm107]

i was thinking about a clen topical or a dbol topical =] oh man, i need something i could spray on AM, and test negative PM lol

 

[Primordial Performance]

i was thinking about a clen topical or a dbol topical =] oh man, i need something i could spray on AM, and test negative PM lol

Clen would still be lingering in your system.. it has like a 36hr half life.

If you use base hormones, most of them would be cleared out of your system within a few days.

-Pp

 

[mm107]

Clen would still be lingering in your system.. it has like a 36hr half life.

If you use base hormones, most of them would be cleared out of your system within a few days.

-Pp

Hey PP, can i get an example of a BASE hormone? im trying to figure this whole thing out and just a bit confused....

im thinking base hormone = raw hormone powder from a source?

 

[mm107]

Hey PP, can i get an example of a BASE hormone? im trying to figure this whole thing out and just a bit confused....

im thinking base hormone = raw hormone powder from a source?

Hey PP, this is listed on one of the sources i know...

Testosterone Base
Nandrolone Base
Boldenolone base

im assuming those are hormone bases....

so then these are NOT hormone bases:
Testosterone Decanoate
Stanozolol
Boldenolone Undec

??
Just wondering...This product looks very very promising if it can get near 40% absorption rate.

 

[blut wump]

Raw hormone with no ester attached. Not only do you get more hormone per gram of material (100%) but it's typically even cheaper than with an ester.

 

[Ulter]

I would not try to make a transdermal out of test base. It doesn't allow for any slop, i.e. room for error, in your uptake and application. At least in an ester you've got a cushion against roller coastering your blood levels.

 

[blut wump]

Good point.

 

[Cutt29]

I would not try to make a transdermal out of test base. It doesn't allow for any slop, i.e. room for error, in your uptake and application. At least in an ester you've got a cushion against roller coastering your blood levels.

that and wouldnt it just be easier to inject??? bathing in transdermal testosterone sounds like a pain in the ass

 

[Ulter]

The bathing thing is what I meant by application. You have to apply the exact same amount each time, have the same skin surface each times, etc. There are too many inconsistancies to make any of this practical for cycling.

 

[D_Mac]

The bathing thing is what I meant by application. You have to apply the exact same amount each time, have the same skin surface each times, etc. There are too many inconsistancies to make any of this practical for cycling.

I have cycled Test in a transdermal before and I didn't have any problems, I prefer transdermals to injectibles for a few reasons. First off I get horrible pain and swelling from any injectables I've done. Second base hormones have a short half life, which means I don't have to wait for the amounts to build up in my system, and I don't have to wait for them to slowly clear out of my system. The day I start a cycle is the day I have high levels and a 1-3 days out of cycle I am clear, which means my natural levels come back sooner and I test clean sooner.

And it is not so hard to keep it consistent, why would it be so hard? You put the same number of pumps on the same body parts each time. What are you doing that makes it so hard? dumping random amounts on different parts of the body each time and not rubbing it in or something? I think it is a pretty easy process. Shower, shave, apply x pumps to each area, rub in.

 

[Primordial Performance]

I would not try to make a transdermal out of test base. It doesn't allow for any slop, i.e. room for error, in your uptake and application. At least in an ester you've got a cushion against roller coastering your blood levels.

The ester is cleaved from the hormone before it even reaches the blood stream. Using a hormone with an ester (in a topical) is only going to hurt absorption. Even with a base hormone, there is still a 12-18 hr timed release effect depending on your topical carrier.

Besides, the max flux seen an hour after application mimics a more natural release of hormones. Ie, a burst of testosterone in the morning similar to the bodies natural rhythm. Plus, transdermaly applied base hormones clear the system within days, making for a very quick rebound.

The only pitfall with transdermal testosterone base is excessive aromatization & 5-alpha reduction as it passes the skin. This is why I would opt for nandrolone base in a topical.

Eitherway, topical test base is cheap, powerful, and painless… not to mention very fast acting.

-Pp

 

[Primordial Performance]

Hey PP, this is listed on one of the sources i know...

Testosterone Base
Nandrolone Base
Boldenolone base

im assuming those are hormone bases....

so then these are NOT hormone bases:
Testosterone Decanoate
Stanozolol
Boldenolone Undec

??
Just wondering...This product looks very very promising if it can get near 40% absorption rate.

Yes, you have it right.

FYI, dont mess with 17aa orals in a topical. Most of them are too big of molecules. Besides you getting better oral absorption by taking them orally anway.

-Pp

 

[thebrakes]

The ester is cleaved from the hormone before it even reaches the blood stream. Using a hormone with an ester (in a topical) is only going to hurt absorption. Even with a base hormone, there is still a 12-18 hr timed release effect depending on your topical carrier.

Besides, the max flux seen an hour after application mimics a more natural release of hormones. Ie, a burst of testosterone in the morning similar to the bodies natural rhythm. Plus, transdermaly applied base hormones clear the system within days, making for a very quick rebound.

The only pitfall with transdermal testosterone base is excessive aromatization & 5-alpha reduction as it passes the skin. This is why I would opt for nandrolone base in a topical.

Eitherway, topical test base is cheap, powerful, and painless… not to mention very fast acting.

-Pp

this man speaks the truth on all counts thus far.

not a big TD board here...but there are others, if anyone is interested. lots of people LOVE TD administration. it certainly has its downsides, but there are huge ups as well.

 

[solidspine]

You're going to waste 90% of your gear. If you delivered 10% you'd be doing well. You have to have a delivery solution that is made for steroids.

That is all there is to say, no big deal.


It is like taking 1000mg of test a week and only benefiting from 100mg a week.

 

[needtogetaas]

The ester is cleaved from the hormone before it even reaches the blood stream. Using a hormone with an ester (in a topical) is only going to hurt absorption. Even with a base hormone, there is still a 12-18 hr timed release effect depending on your topical carrier.

Besides, the max flux seen an hour after application mimics a more natural release of hormones. Ie, a burst of testosterone in the morning similar to the bodies natural rhythm. Plus, transdermaly applied base hormones clear the system within days, making for a very quick rebound.

The only pitfall with transdermal testosterone base is excessive aromatization & 5-alpha reduction as it passes the skin. This is why I would opt for nandrolone base in a topical.

Eitherway, topical test base is cheap, powerful, and painless… not to mention very fast acting.

-Pp

sounds good to me.

 

[blut wump]

So, if we assume raw hormone dissolved at 20mg/ml with a 35% absorption, that's 7mg per ml applied. Four 1ml squirts night and morning would make for a very acceptable cycle, comparable with shooting 50-60mg of suspension per day. One squirt per day is a decent HRT run.

There's the usual possibility of skin damage, as with any topical, but if you're in a situation where needles aren't available or acceptable then it seems a reasonable avenue to consider.

 

[Ulter]

I know how esters are cleaved. But thanks.

Like I said, twice, blood levels of test will swing wildly up and down using test base in a delivery solution transdermally. In Androgel the test levels swing up and down by over 50% in just few hours. That's for 5mg. Now if you do that with 100mg your side effects from spiking will be much worse than if the test in a ester in a depot.

So, d_mac, I'm glad to hear you found a way to get over your fear of needles. But the fact is that cycling transdermally is a bad idea.

 

[Primordial Performance]

I know how esters are cleaved. But thanks.

Like I said, twice, blood levels of test will swing wildly up and down using test base in a delivery solution transdermally. In Androgel the test levels swing up and down by over 50% in just few hours. That's for 5mg. Now if you do that with 100mg your side effects from spiking will be much worse than if the test in a ester in a depot.

So, d_mac, I'm glad to hear you found a way to get over your fear of needles. But the fact is that cycling transdermally is a bad idea.

Ulter,

A 50% swing in test levels can happen after a work out, or even jacking off. If your concerned about a 50% swing in hormone levels, you should be concerned about the 1-2 gram wk/ testosterone cycles that are happening on this board, causing upwards of a 5000% "swing" in testosterone levels. Im wondering now, what horrible side effects will be seen with this spike in testosterone?

Transdermally applied steroids can work very well. There really is no argument here.

FYI, after several days of topical steroid administration to the same spot, the dermis does become saturated with hormone, creating a depot for steady hormone release.

Blut wup,

What sort of skin damage are you referring to?

DMSO does have the capability to change skin integrity and structure, so I could consider this to be skin damage. However our topical formula DOES NOT contain DMSO and does not cause any kind of irritation even in the most sensitive individuals.

-Pp

 

[blut wump]

All interesting stuff.

It's good to hear that you have a skin-friendly formula. Ulter's formulation has never given me any problems over occasional months of use either.

I had read specifically about DMSO causing the damage you mention. I was about to write that I'd be loathe to consider very long-term application of any solvents onto the skin but then I realised that I dose myself with soap and deodorant daily. The soap is an emulsifier but the water washing it off is definitely a solvent. Alcohols do still concern me, though.

Thanks to you and Ulter for the info you've each provided here.

 

[needtogetaas]

wonder if any one here has ever had a really bad irritation from a topical.

 

[Ulter]

Ulter,

A 50% swing in test levels can happen after a work out, or even jacking off. If your concerned about a 50% swing in hormone levels, you should be concerned about the 1-2 gram wk/ testosterone cycles that are happening on this board, causing upwards of a 5000% "swing" in testosterone levels. Im wondering now, what horrible side effects will be seen with this spike in testosterone?

-Pp

Actually those are closer to 200%. But you are comparing apple and oranges. You can't compare 3-5mg per day test swings with the swings caused by adding a 1000mg of test per week. The whole reason you use an ester in a depot is to get even blood levels while using 1000mg/wk. The side effects don't come from the test. They come from the estrogens, prolactin, progestins, etc. Taking 1000mg/wk of test is no problem for those using an AI like AIFM. There are hundreds of men using over a gram a week with AIFM and have NO side effects. The success rate of AIFM for those using over a gram is nearly 100%. Now if they were spiking their test levels up and down 200% who knows how bad the sides would be. Mainly because they wouldn't be dosing the AI to match up with the test spiking.

Put aside your love of transdermal for a minute. If you use suspension and inject it daily your side effects are much greater then if you use an esterfied test in a depot. If you don't think so, try it. Esters in a depot are a better choice.

I said the swings from Androgel are 50%. I'm sorry that was off the top of my head. It's closer 300%.

 

[rykertest]

http://www.jarpharma.com/ultrais.html

 

[Ulter]

Hey!!! That's Carl's stuff!!! I don't see that posted much.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Actually those are closer to 200%. But you are comparing apple and oranges. You can't compare 3-5mg per day test swings with the swings caused by adding a 1000mg of test per week. The whole reason you use an ester in a depot is to get even blood levels while using 1000mg/wk. The side effects don't come from the test. They come from the estrogens, prolactin, progestins, etc. Taking 1000mg/wk of test is no problem for those using an AI like AIFM. There are hundreds of men using over a gram a week with AIFM and have NO side effects. The success rate of AIFM for those using over a gram is nearly 100%. Now if they were spiking their test levels up and down 200% who knows how bad the sides would be. Mainly because they wouldn't be dosing the AI to match up with the test spiking.

Put aside your love of transdermal for a minute. If you use suspension and inject it daily your side effects are much greater then if you use an esterfied test in a depot. If you don't think so, try it. Esters in a depot are a better choice.

I said the swings from Androgel are 50%. I'm sorry that was off the top of my head. It's closer 300%.

Agreed on the test suspension, esterfied test comment, but I must say, I personally prefer certain steroids at swift full swing. Imagine an esterfied Dbol… come on now….

Plus, PCT is much quicker and easier when using transdermal steroids. The steroids clear your system within days rather than months… ie. nandrolone decanoate can linger in the system for many months (possibly years) due to the lipophilicity and ease of cleavage from ester, and reattachment to ester, ect, ect.. Same thing with other long acting esters of test, boldenone, tren, ect. All this excess steroid lingering can suppress and suppress... bad news.

If you’re an TRT patient, and don’t mind needles, an esterfied test may be best. However if you’re a bodybuilder or athlete that wants quick rebound and much shorter clearance time for a UA, then transdermals have there benefits.

Better yet, a combination of transdermals and esterfied injects makes room for even more fun...

-Pp

 

[Mrpumped]

All said and done, everything has it's purpose. I still choose injectable and oral. Transdermal just doesn't appeal to me. But to each his own.

 

[D_Mac]

I know how esters are cleaved. But thanks.

Like I said, twice, blood levels of test will swing wildly up and down using test base in a delivery solution transdermally. In Androgel the test levels swing up and down by over 50% in just few hours. That's for 5mg. Now if you do that with 100mg your side effects from spiking will be much worse than if the test in a ester in a depot.

So, d_mac, I'm glad to hear you found a way to get over your fear of needles. But the fact is that cycling transdermally is a bad idea.

What side effects exactly are you talking about Ulter? There are a lot of guys out there who love transdermals and don't get any increased side effects. You have obviously never cycled transdermals so maybe you should try them out before talking me down. And maybe you should speak on subjects you know something about and refrain from being condescending to every person who differs from your opinion.

And FYI, oral steroids don’t have esters either man, so should we stop taking those too?

 

[al420]

Better yet, a combination of transdermals and esterfied injects makes room for even more fun...

-Pp

And who here does not like fun?

 

[needtogetaas]

Agreed on the test suspension, esterfied test comment, but I must say, I personally prefer certain steroids at swift full swing. Imagine an esterfied Dbol… come on now….

Plus, PCT is much quicker and easier when using transdermal steroids. The steroids clear your system within days rather than months… ie. nandrolone decanoate can linger in the system for many months (possibly years) due to the lipophilicity and ease of cleavage from ester, and reattachment to ester, ect, ect.. Same thing with other long acting esters of test, boldenone, tren, ect. All this excess steroid lingering can suppress and suppress... bad news.

If you’re an TRT patient, and don’t mind needles, an esterfied test may be best. However if you’re a bodybuilder or athlete that wants quick rebound and much shorter clearance time for a UA, then transdermals have there benefits.

Better yet, a combination of transdermals and esterfied injects makes room for even more fun...

-Pp

I got a question.could a transdermal steroids be used kind of like a spot injection would.to help bring up lagging pats or what have you.

 

[Primordial Performance]

I got a question.could a transdermal steroids be used kind of like a spot injection would.to help bring up lagging pats or what have you.

Localized action is not possible in muscle as far as I know. The steroids go systemic before entering the muscle.

-Pp

 

[the-short-one]

I got a question.could a transdermal steroids be used kind of like a spot injection would.to help bring up lagging pats or what have you.

MGF

 

[needtogetaas]

MGF

mgf

 

[Primordial Performance]

MGF

My first inclination is that MGF is way too big of a peptide to pass through the skin unless you had some super aggressive iontophoresis applied to the skin.

Do you have some personal experience with this?

-Pp

 

[blut wump]

MGF - mechano growth factor, an IGF-1 variant.

 

[mm107]

hey PP, im seriously looking into PG2Fa for transdermal application because of all the reading i have been doing and the logs i have looked into....

The best mixture i found was with DMSO + Aloe Vera Gel + PG2Fa.....

Now this stuff is not TOO much $, but could be pricey if i have to keep 'trying' to get it right.

Now im wondering, does your OHV formula have similiar properties as DMSO in reguards on how it passes it through the skin?

(pg2fa suppsevedly kills fat cells no shrinking them, but the sides from injecting are way too harsh)

 

[the-short-one]

My first inclination is that MGF is way too big of a peptide to pass through the skin unless you had some super aggressive iontophoresis applied to the skin.

Do you have some personal experience with this?

-Pp

no. he said localized growth, and I automatically thought 'MGF'.

 

[Primordial Performance]

hey PP, im seriously looking into PG2Fa for transdermal application because of all the reading i have been doing and the logs i have looked into....

The best mixture i found was with DMSO + Aloe Vera Gel + PG2Fa.....

Now this stuff is not TOO much $, but could be pricey if i have to keep 'trying' to get it right.

Now im wondering, does your OHV formula have similiar properties as DMSO in reguards on how it passes it through the skin?

(pg2fa suppsevedly kills fat cells no shrinking them, but the sides from injecting are way too harsh)

Out topical is not as harsh as the DMSO. You will get slightly better absorption with our topical over DMSO, and will save yourself the horrible garlic smell and dry flakey skin rash associated with the DMSO.

-Pp

 

[mm107]

Out topical is not as harsh as the DMSO. You will get slightly better absorption with our topical over DMSO, and will save yourself the horrible garlic smell and dry flakey skin rash associated with the DMSO.

-Pp

thats what i was hoping to hear.

PGF2a is already easily abosrbed into the skin from what i have read, i just needed a topical trasdermal carrier =]

thank you

 

[pitbullrocco]

who here has a degree in any derivative of chemistry?

 

[al420]

I have taken many chemicals...for years. So, I feel qualified.

If you can get freon out of a 87 Bronco for recreational use you can do anything.

 

[Primordial Performance]

who here has a degree in any derivative of chemistry?

We’ve got a whole team. What do you wanna know?

 

[Mr.X]

We’ve got a whole team. What do you wanna know?

I've got an internet Ph.D.

 

[chordz]

The thing i hate about transdermal is if you have a wife/girlfriends or kids there is a good chance they will get some exposure.

 

[jetty]

The thing i hate about transdermal is if you have a wife/girlfriends or kids there is a good chance they will get some exposure.

So your saying my wife is getting AIFM also since i am? Is that why she's growing hair on her lower whiskers?

 

[mm107]

So your saying my wife is getting AIFM also since i am? Is that why she's growing hair on her lower whiskers?

in short....yes =]

but there is a time window....i wouldnt touch her or go near her within 30 mins of putting it on

 

[needtogetaas]

who here has a degree in any derivative of chemistry?

well I think I know a lot about intoxicating chemicals

 

[Primordial Performance]

So your saying my wife is getting AIFM also since i am? Is that why she's growing hair on her lower whiskers?

DHEA supps have been known to cause hair growth in some women, (even though many women continue to use DHEA/pregnenolone supps). But passive transfer of Dermacrine would be very minor and shouldnt subject a grown women to enough DHEA to cause these kinds of problems. A steroid AI on the other hand, such as ATD could be causing those symptoms…

I should mention, very young children (less than 6 yrs old) have especially permeable skin and can be especially reactive to DHEA, so passive transfer could initiate some sort of pseudo-puberty response. We put a warning on the product about this…

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

DHEA supps have been known to cause hair growth in some women, (even though many women continue to use DHEA/pregnenolone supps). But passive transfer of Dermacrine would be very minor and shouldnt subject a grown women to enough DHEA to cause these kinds of problems. A steroid AI on the other hand, such as ATD could be causing those symptoms…

I should mention, very young children (less than 6 yrs old) have especially permeable skin and can be especially reactive to DHEA, so passive transfer could initiate some sort of pseudo-puberty response. We put a warning on the product about this…

-Pp

dame i will think of this around my kids.

 

[blut wump]

I just realised there no longer any need to waste the 0.1ml of gear in the 'dead zone' of the syringe. You can rub it in somewhere. Those few mg of prop each time might be the difference between a great and an average cycle.

If you have prop 100 and assume there's typically 0.1ml wasted, that's 10mg of prop. At 10-20% absorption, that's, maybe, a couple of mg of test extra per shot. Using enan 250, that'd be 25mg of enan. It all adds up. Waste not want not.

 

[needtogetaas]

I just realised there no longer any need to waste the 0.1ml of gear in the 'dead zone' of the syringe. You can rub it in somewhere. Those few mg of prop each time might be the difference between a great and an average cycle.

If you have prop 100 and assume there's typically 0.1ml wasted, that's 10mg of prop. At 10-20% absorption, that's, maybe, a couple of mg of test extra per shot. Using enan 250, that'd be 25mg of enan. It all adds up. Waste not want not.

well you could save all the vials over time then use them in a trans dermal

 

[blut wump]

You could sit and soak in a testosterone hot-tub.

 

[needtogetaas]

You could sit and soak in a testosterone hot-tub.

 

[Mr.X]

You could sit and soak in a testosterone hot-tub.

not a bad idea

 

[needtogetaas]

not a bad idea

i I had that kind of cash I would.

 

[Mr.X]

i I had that kind of cash I would.

I would too

 

[the-short-one]

big sausage fest in the test-tub.

no wimmins would go in that water.

 

[blut wump]

Wot?!? No wimmins? No test-tub babes?

 

[the-short-one]

Wot?!? No wimmins? No test-tub babes?

No way. I'd probably sprout chin hairs instantly, and we don't want to talk about what else might sprout instantly.

You manly men can keep your test-tub.

 

[needtogetaas]

No way. I'd probably sprout chin hairs instantly, and we don't want to talk about what else might sprout instantly.

You manly men can keep your test-tub.

step out of the tub with a 10 inch clit dragging on the floor.

 

[Mr.X]

big sausage fest in the test-tub.

no wimmins would go in that water.

LOL