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This pro Trainer

JKurz1

JKurz1

Banned
in my area came to our gym (actually for the last few weeks) to train some of his "protogies"....anyways, we got to talking and he looked at me and asked if I was a triathelete....I guess that's offensive, but it's a give. You guys know my story...anyway, I of course asked him what he meant, how I should train, and what my diet should look like. He told me to do a 3 day full body split till I recover fully, then break it down to 6-8 reps 2 bodyparts a day, 4-5 days a week, WITH NO CARDIO.....He then orchestrated a diet for me and said to shut up and just do it......he said we will add cals later, but guaruntees minimal fat gain even with no cardio. It's a crazy 6,000+ diet of clean foods with a cheat every 11 days. Would you guys take a look at it as I trust your thoughts....to me and my buddy, it's way too much protein.
 
First off just because he is a "pro trainer" does not make what he says correct. I like his approach to the training, but diet is too much individualized to say here, eat "X" calories and you will gain with no fat. Does not matter that the calories are "clean", if you exceed your calorie intake to any high degree for any length of time you will gain fat, washing the food or not! :)
 
JKurz1 said:
in my area came to our gym (actually for the last few weeks) to train some of his "protogies"....anyways, we got to talking and he looked at me and asked if I was a triathelete....I guess that's offensive, but it's a give. You guys know my story...anyway, I of course asked him what he meant, how I should train, and what my diet should look like. He told me to do a 3 day full body split till I recover fully, then break it down to 6-8 reps 2 bodyparts a day, 4-5 days a week, WITH NO CARDIO.....He then orchestrated a diet for me and said to shut up and just do it......he said we will add cals later, but guaruntees minimal fat gain even with no cardio. It's a crazy 6,000+ diet of clean foods with a cheat every 11 days. Would you guys take a look at it as I trust your thoughts....to me and my buddy, it's way too much protein.
Click to expand...


ug... he has no real idea of your training history? what your daily activity is like? whether you are a couch potato outside the gym or a high altitude search and rescue freak? How in the name of Jah could he suggest what your total calorie intake should be??! Based SOLELY on his training regimen? Feh and double feh....

His gym workload/recovery scheme doesnt sound too hairbrained, but 6k is a lot o calories...

Oh, and my appologies, i have no idea whether or not you are a 450lb power lifter or a 155lb ultramarathon ironman... so maybe he's right...
 
Diet already sounds good to me, we've all read the 1000 Jkurz diet posts where he is scared to put on an ounce of fat (some mental thing) you really do need to pound down some insane calories sometimes to put on size, especially if you are a hard gainer, or have some mental barrier when it comes to fat gain. Do like the rest of us, bulk up and then lose the fat, the world isn't gonna end if one of your abs starts to fade.

</rant off>
 
ill post it tonight...most on this board eat realitively clean and few cals....lemme see some big boy diets....
 
JKurz1 said:
ill post it tonight...most on this board eat realitively clean and few cals....lemme see some big boy diets....
Click to expand...
big boy diet = eat, eat, eat bro... if you want to see a scheduled one BiggT just posted his diet (lifting forum his thread)... 6,000 calories :) He's a big boy for sure and hella strong.
 
JKurz1 said:
powerlifter and bodybulders are 2 diff. animals....he doesnt care that he'll be FAT
Click to expand...
Calm down buddy.... he is not FAT, maybe in your mind because he doesn't have the ghey A & F model physique you work so hard to keep.

Well what do you want to be BB or Powerlifter?...because you don't seem to be either.
 
JKurtz, it's time to pack some meat on your bones and stop acting like an 11 year old gymnast.....getting fat doesn't happen overnight, you won't wake up one morning weighing 495lbs with no options left other than gastric bypass.....just eat man, if you stop liking what you see, scale back a little......you're like 6'2 or 6'3 or something with a decent sized frame and you weigh about a buck 60, right? You could gain 100lbs and not be 'fat'.

Just slowly up the cals while adding weight to the bar.....if you want to weigh 160-something, that is perfectly fine, just be happy.....but this constant obsessing is not healthy, man.
 
Here is mine:

1 -
3/4 C Egg Whites
2 Whole Eggs
2 Slices no-fat cheese
4.5 oz dry Oatmeal
1.5 C Skim Milk

2-
10 oz cooked beef
Salsa to taste
1.5 C cooked rice
1 C corn
1 T MCT

3 -
1 Scoop MuscleMilk
2 Scoops Complete Whey
2 C Skim Milk
1 Banana
1 C Yogourt (sometimes as I don't really like the stuff)

4 -
same as 2

5 -
same as 2

6 -
same as 3

repeat on Mon, Tues, Wed, .... all week
 
Now stick with it and forget about bodyfat for now. Test my memory here. You were 6'2 225 pounds with 7% bodyfat but lost a lot of muscle and got down to 180 pounds. (Think that was in your post about having a cold face/swollen feet or something?)

Not sure how long it's been since the weight loss, but with muscle memory you should've been back to your original size in no time had you been eating a high calorie diet and training with core lifts. What's your training like too? All your weights should've come back to what you were doing previously rather quickly.
 
If someone told me I resemebeled a triathelete I would shoot myself. If you want to look SOLID you have to put on some fat and mass and then cut down. ITS NOT THAT HARD. Or else your just going to be a skinny bitch with a 6 pack..... unless thats what you want?
 
Beware....eating tons of calories does in no way insure more muscle gain. Partitioning effects differ in all of us. There is going to be a maximum rate of muscle growth determined by genetics, hormones, and training. Most of these "gurus" that spout eat big to get big have high partitioning factors....i.e...drugs(greatly improves this factor).

For the natural athlete you must remember that calories beyond what is needed to support that growth go to fat. Depending on what your partitioning factor is, you really only need go "so far" above that.

Not at all trying to sway you from bulking, I think you should too, but don't just pick a number like 6K because some big guy told you so and do it.
 
I agree....I will need to adjust accordingly...will keep am cardio in play for now and maybe take the above diet and divide it in half to start...then weekly add in the additionals....good plan?
 
kurz ... is the diet you listed above your current diet? or the one he recommended you follow? Please clarify I just want to be sure.

Either way .. do you know the macros on that? I don't see any healthy fats

Although others knock me for it, I do like the idea of 2 bp a day @ 6-8 reps, 4-5 days a week, with a cheat (meal) every week & a half .... but the no cardio ... even with bulking, I still think there are many benefits to cardio in lieu of excluding it completely...(some off hand others I had saved from a previous look into cardio benefits aside from 'weightloss')
i.e.
* Cardiovascular endurance - Strengthing Heart & Lungs
* Reduced risk of heart disease and some types of cancer
* Increased bone density
* Sanity - Reduced stress, anxiety, depression
* Elevated energy Levels & aid with sleep
* B/C it makes you FEEL better & more confidant...

Did he really say "shut up and just do it" b/c I couldn't get a read if that was a joke or not?

So what happens when his guarantee backfires? Was this free advice? Do you get to slap him around a bit? :)

Sorry if I missed your other bachground posts, but what is your goal here? I did read where you stated it ... is it increased muscle mass with minimal fat gain? Do you fear that you will get fat?
 
Dont change what or how you eat if it works. you dont have to, just 'flip' the diet. litterally.

500-600calorie deficit a week and you lose a lb a week, right?(SIMPLIFIED< dont castrate the piano player)

Do take this opportunity to change the word 'deficit' to 'surplus' please. The word 'lose' will adjust itself.


Next.


.
 
Here's The Diet He Gave Me....its Nuts

Meal 1
24 Egg Whites
5oz Beef
1.5 Cup Oats

Meal #2
3 Scoops Whey
1.5 Cup Oats

#3
12ox Flank
15oz Yam

#4
10 Oz Chicken
1/2 Cup Brown Rice (dry)

#5
3 Scoops Whey
2 Tbs Olive Oil

#6
1 Cup Cottage Chjeese
2 Tbsp Pb
5oz Chiken

#7
24 Egg Whites
5 Oz Beef

(training Regi.)
Post - Immidiately After
1 Scoop Whey
150g Of Dext

30 Mins Later
1 Scoop Whey
75 Dext
1 Cup Oats

1.5 Hours Later
1 Scoop Whey
1 Cup Oats

Off Days - 350 Pw Carbs Are Out And A 8th Meal With 70g Of Protein Is Added...nuts???
 
There are no green veggies, I hope he included a referral to a good proctologist, lol, because your insides will be messed up....also, it looks low on fats....to me, that's not an alarming amount of food (considering the oat measurements are cooked of course).....I think 48 egg whites are a bit excessive, but I know 130lb women who have eaten 2 dozen or more egg whites a day, so it isn't absurd or anything unrealistic, I am a whole egg guy myself, I'd rather have 4 or 5 whole eggs than choke down 500 whites.....overall, the diet has no variety , and to be blunt, flank steak sucks, unless you make fajitas or something, it isn't the kind of thing you want to eat just as it is with a potato...I'd probably eat more fruit too.....I like whole, fresh foods though, and variety.....I don't think that diet is retarded or anything, just lacking in fats and green vegetables and variety. How many cals do you eat right now?? Gradual increases might be best (but again, I have upped my cals by ridiculous amounts at times and done fine), it is an individual thing depending on many factors.
 
Last edited:
I was 100% with you, especially on the SLooooow Ramp of cals as I'm probably around 2,500 right now.......HOWEVER, flank steak is pretty damn good to me and so is 96% lean beef......Ill use em both. AND when you said add in fruit, I lost some respect....fruit is really not important at all and the more I read the more it just inhibits fat gain...here's what I've done and tell me what you wouldc change...thnx haus

Remeber, right now I'm coming off a hard training regimine with Team fitness where I lost about 30lbs training for a tri...so, I'm about 6'2, 170 and 7-8%.....prob. overtrained, so a week off may be best...

7AM
6 EGG WHITES
3/4 CUP OATS
1 CUP SKIM
1 SCOOP PRO COMPLEX


930AM
3/4 CUP OATS
2 SCOOPS PRO COMPLEX


NOON
4OZ FLANK STEAK
3 OZ CHICKEN BREAST
8 OZ YAM
LARGE SALAD, VEGIES


3:30PM
6 OZ CHICKEN OR TUNA
1/2 CUP COOKED RICE

TRAIN 5:30,6PM - 7:15-730 (5 DAYS, 6 CARDIO)

7:15
1 SCOOP WHEY
40G DEXTROST

8:15
1/2 CUP OATS
1 SCOOP WHEY

9:15
1 CUP COTTAGE CHEESE
1OZ ALMONDS
1 SCOOP CASEIN
1 CUP SKIM
 
You still need more fats, you still need leafy greens, and if you won't eat fruit, at least take a multi-vitamin. As retarded as it sounds, you'd be malnourished even on the original 6k diet because it is severely lacking in many essential things.....

Also, you change your stats and training background every time you post, I got the 6'2 part down, and thats good, you've got plenty of room to grow.....

I'm by no means a diet guru, and except for the purpose of getting bodybuilding contest 'ripped' I think diet is overrated and a little common sense can go a long way.....lean meats/chicken/fish and complex carbs and green veggies are a nice base.....eat meat, eggs, and oatmeal for breakfast, drink water, don't eat white sugar and lay off alcohol, it shouldn't be too complicated. You're too focused on the meaningless 2% and you're missing the bigger picture, the 98% that really matters.
 
Last edited:
BiggT said:
You still need more fats, you still need leafy greens, and if you won't eat fruit, at least take a multi-vitamin. As retarded as it sounds, you'd be malnourished even on the original 6k diet because it is severely lacking in many essential things.....

Also, you change your stats and training background every time you post, I got the 6'2 part down, and thats good, you've got plenty of room to grow.....

I'm by no means a diet guru, and except for the purpose of getting bodybuilding contest 'ripped' I think diet is overrated and a little common sense can go a long way.....lean meats/chicken/fish and complex carbs and green veggies are a nice base.....eat meat, eggs, and oatmeal for breakfast, drink water, don't eat white sugar and lay off alcohol, it shouldn't be too complicated. You're too focused on the meaningless 2% and you're missing the bigger picture, the 98% that really matters.
Click to expand...
I hear a, and my saladveggies in the 3rd meal are pretty substantial...I always take a multi and I can add some berries to my oats.....fats will be from the meats, protein powder (I got muscle milk too, you use??) and peanuts/almonds by the handfull prebed......once I dial this diet in, I will stray here and there but would like a base....also, going to know my training down to allow more EATING time......I used to analyze big time, now I just want a no brainer, no thinking, just eat it diet.....post workout is a concern....never used dex, u use? I was thinking of either a myoplex MRP, fat free mufffin, or raw oats as a sub in...thoughts? Cytogainer?
 
I don't know your specifics, j, so I'm just throwing this out as a rationale for his thinking. He's assuming you're a bit of an ecto at 170. Some trainers don't want you to eat greens precisely because they're high in fiber and water. They fill you up so you don't have enough room for the mountains of food you should be consuming so that you can actually pack some mucle on your frame while undergoing intense training. Iron Man means your body has to be able cope with high demands for an extended period. Just throw some Green powder and/ or psyllum husk in if you want. Also, flax or fish oil in place of normal dietary fats as you're correct in wanting to keep your BF% down.
If you have a faster metabolic rate, common enough with people having your body type, all that food he gave you isn't going to kill you. 75 grams of dextrose post workout will go through your system like a chinese dinner. Why be scared of the macro numbers if you haven't tried them?
Ultimately it's the trainer's program. He designed it for a reason. Why ad hoc mess with it when you admittedly aren't knowlegable in these things? It comes down to either you trust the trainer knows what he is talking about or you don't. Agreed it's best to get second opinions, though. If you don't get answers here, maybe the Collegiate Sports Forum might know.
 
Thats all I want...a 2nd opinion....do you think it's too many cals to start if I am around 3,000 right now? ALso, How close to bed is TOO CLOSE and resulting in fat storage? If its a 1/2 cup cottage cheese, a thick casein shake with skim, and say 20 or so almonds....the nuts are what worries me. Especiall having my pw shake two hours prior, and then a meal of oats and whey just an hour before that......I will keep the slow pace am cardio for sanity, but that's about it......
 
Here's a critique I just got......pretty damn good!!! :)

6 EGG WHITES
3/4 CUP OATS
1 CUP SKIM
1 SCOOP PRO COMPLEX---GOOD, TRY 2 WHOLE EGGS IN THERE.


930AM
3/4 CUP OATS
2 SCOOPS PRO COMPLEX---ADD SOME OLIVE OIL OR PEANUT BUTTER


NOON
4OZ FLANK STEAK
3 OZ CHICKEN BREAST
8 OZ YAM
LARGE SALAD, VEGIES---GOOD


3:30PM
6 OZ CHICKEN OR TUNA
1/2 CUP COOKED RICE---GOOD

TRAIN 5:30,6PM - 7:15-730 (5 DAYS, 6 CARDIO)---I PERSONALLY THINK YOU SHOULD CUT BACK ON TRAINING AND DO HIT OR DC 3 WAY SPLIT...NO CARDIO YOU DONT NEED IT FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!! THIS PISSES ME OFF YOUR GONA BURN YOURSELF OUT DOING SO MUCH OF IT, WHY YOU THINK YOUR SO TIRED?

7:15
ff muffin or dextrose????
1 scoop whey---1 SCOOP? MAKE IT 60 GRAMS OF PROTEIN. MIXED WITH JUICE OR WHATEVER YOU LIKE

8:15
1/2 CUP OATS
1 SCOOP WHEY--- MORE PROTEIN! I ALSO PREFER A WHOLE FOODS MEAL AFTER THE POST WORKOUT SHAKE

9:15
1 CUP COTTAGE CHEESE
1OZ ALMONDS
1 SCOOP CASEIN
1 CUP SKIM--- WHATEVER, i WOULD RPEFER AN OMELETTE OR SOMETHING WITH SOME HAM AND CHEESE.
 
JKurz1 said:
Here's The Diet He Gave Me....its Nuts

Meal 1
24 Egg Whites
5oz Beef
1.5 Cup Oats

Meal #2
3 Scoops Whey
1.5 Cup Oats

#3
12ox Flank
15oz Yam

#4
10 Oz Chicken
1/2 Cup Brown Rice (dry)

#5
3 Scoops Whey
2 Tbs Olive Oil

#6
1 Cup Cottage Chjeese
2 Tbsp Pb
5oz Chiken

#7
24 Egg Whites
5 Oz Beef

(training Regi.)
Post - Immidiately After
1 Scoop Whey
150g Of Dext

30 Mins Later
1 Scoop Whey
75 Dext
1 Cup Oats

1.5 Hours Later
1 Scoop Whey
1 Cup Oats

Off Days - 350 Pw Carbs Are Out And A 8th Meal With 70g Of Protein Is Added...nuts???
Click to expand...



Whats up my friend....long time no talk. Nice to see your uping the cals. I agree with biggt to a point, it is lacking in greens and efas but I like how simple it is. Also I wouldnt go from 2500 to 6000 Id up the cals by 300-500 ew till you get 500-700 cals over your cal maintance rate. I dont think u would need 6000 cals at 175lb that would put on slopy weight, just guessing Id say youll be around 3500-4000cal. Id find out what your RMR is for sure your local gym should have a body bug or a body gem machine something to measure your RMR exactly, then you will know where to be with your cals no guessing. Good luck bro.
 
bigdho said:
Whats up my friend....long time no talk. Nice to see your uping the cals. I agree with biggt to a point, it is lacking in greens and efas but I like how simple it is. Also I wouldnt go from 2500 to 6000 Id up the cals by 300-500 ew till you get 500-700 cals over your cal maintance rate. I dont think u would need 6000 cals at 175lb that would put on slopy weight, just guessing Id say youll be around 3500-4000cal. Id find out what your RMR is for sure your local gym should have a body bug or a body gem machine something to measure your RMR exactly, then you will know where to be with your cals no guessing. Good luck bro.
Click to expand...
thanks boss....how u been? So, this diet is ok as a starting point.....took in most of it today and feeling good...it's prob about 4,000 cals....then ill decrease or increase weekly by 500...thoughts? Ill add some more pb and almonds....
 
JKurz1 said:
thanks boss....how u been? So, this diet is ok as a starting point.....took in most of it today and feeling good...it's prob about 4,000 cals....then ill decrease or increase weekly by 500...thoughts? Ill add some more pb and almonds....
Click to expand...

I wouldn't increase weekly if not warranated. Increase as needed....that is as the gains stop. As your weight increases, your maintenance calorie needs will increase accordingly.
 
Lifterforlife said:
I wouldn't increase weekly if not warranated. Increase as needed....that is as the gains stop. As your weight increases, your maintenance calorie needs will increase accordingly.
Click to expand...
huh?????????
 
MONDAY, JUNE 12th,2006 (first true day on diet)


Woke at 5:00am
Trained chest/calves, one tri exercise
Great pump...great workout, even on no fuel......


Postworkout
8:00am
6 EGG WHITES
CUP SKIM
2 SCOOPS PROCOMPLEX
(IN A SHAKE)
EZEKIEL RAISEN AND CINNAMON ENGLISH MUFFIN
50G PRO, 45G OF CARBS, 4G OF FAT

NEXT MEAL AT 1000

3/4 CUP ROLLED OATS
1 FULL CUP DRY CURD CC
1 SCOOP DESINER WHEY
ALMONDS (HANDFULL)

last starchy carb for the day...
130pm....
4oz cooked whole wheat pasta
4oz chicken
3oz 96% beef
large salad, steamed veggies......

next meal 5-530pm...
 
JKurz1 said:
huh?????????
Click to expand...

Is it that tough to understand my post? Sorry....the point being made in my post is you do not need to raise your calories each and every week just because it is some predertermined timeframe. Raise them as you need to/as warranted by attaining goals. :)
 
so we are on the same page? What if my test levels are natty very low? wil lcals tend to be stored more and/or will it be harder to gain mass? Does 200mg of test seem dumb at this point?
 
So, my best bet is 2--mg of test/week....my doc strictly prerscribed androderm...patch did nothing fo rme....
 
According to fitday...


PROTEIN CARBS FAT
700AM
6 EGG WHITES 18 3 0 90
1/2 cup oats 4 27 3 150
1 CUP SKIM 4 2 0.5 45
1 SCOOP PRO COMPLEX--- 25 5 3 150
JAM/JELLY SF 0 0 0 0
51 37 6.5 435
10AM
3/4 CUP OATS 7 40 5 225
2 SCOOPS PRO COMPLEX--- 55 8 5 250
1TB OF ANPB 0 0 0 0
62 48 10 475

NOON
2OZ FLANK STEAK 12 0 2 75
4 OZ CHICKEN BREAST 35 0 4 187
4OZ COOKED WW PASTA 8 43 3 200
LARGE SALAD, VEGIES--- 3 25 1 150
46 68 8 537

3:30PM
6 OZ CHICKEN OR TUNA 35 0 4 187
1/2 CUP COOKED RICE--- 1 23 1 108
36 23 5 295

TRAIN 5:30,6PM - 7:15-730 (5 DAYS, 6 CARDIO)---

7:15
FAT FREE MUFFIN 1 25 1 100
2 SCOOPS WHEY 55 5 3 270
20G OF DEXTROSE 0 20 0 75
56 50 0 4 445

8:15
1/2 CUP OATS 4 27 3 150
2 SCOOP WHEY--- 55 3 3 270
59 0 30 0 6 420
9:15
1 CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 20 3 1 160
20 almonds and peanuts 8 7 11 130
1 SCOOP CASEIN 20 2 3 130
1 CUP SKIM--- 8 1 15 125
36 0 10 0 29 385

346.00 - 266.00 - 68.50 2,992.00
 
JKurz1 said:
So, my best bet is 2--mg of test/week....my doc strictly prerscribed androderm...patch did nothing fo rme....
Click to expand...

I am guessing he did a blood workup/panel and checked E2 levels, LH, FSH, and SHBG? Any arimedex prescribed with it? If you have a high conversion rate(aromatase enzyme), this could be the reason for the patch not doing anything.
 
No, he's a family doc and doesnt know a whole lot on HRT......thats what scared me. I put myself on 200mg for awhile and felt decent, weened off, and now I am thinking I should be back on....that or my calories just need ramped. Will an increase in cals help someone who has been so resptrictive over the last few months>
 
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