The word is getting out.

[Madcow2]

Nice.

How important is it to overall load that you perform the 10x3 or the 3x10 in the same timeframe. I just can't see being able to do it w/ high %1RM on the 3x10.

FYI - he's holding time constant to make a point and make it easy to grasp the concept of workload in isolation. Workload will definitely be higher, time might be marginally longer and this can have an impact which is going to be very hard to estimate and may or may not be significant (thus it was held constant to make the example more clear).

 

[silver_shadow]

What I was getting at is that the primary goal of WSB is not hypertrophy and that it still works far better than most programs that people organize for hypertrophy as a primary goal. Now the detail side, every PL program has hypertrophy elements. You just can't do enough ME or very high intensity work so there is always a give and take. Westside makes it speed and assistance to make it more pertinent but that aside there will always be lower intensity higher volume workload in any program (even in OL if you look away from the classic lifts and examine assistance or squatting). So yes, this can cause hypertrophy and I think Louie and Dave have plainly said it, but the primary purpose of the program is not hypertrophy and yet it still produces what I consider to be far more successful hypertrophy results than most of the rather butt-head bodybuilding stuff you see in the gyms. Big lifts moving north combined with eating = hypertrophy.

if there was some confusion, i was agreeing with u, just wanted to pick up from where u left off about hypertrophy in relation to WSB for the benefit of those who think that WSB will make u strong without hypertrophy (or for that matter any PL program as u said).
i'd like to know ur thoughts on my other comment on the BBer's muscle refining exercises.

 

[Madcow2]

the other thing i wanted to say... u say that all those isolation movements that BBers typically do are good for refining after bulking... i'd like to take a more extreme stand on that and say that it's a waste of time and bodybuilders are better off doing the same compound movements during a cutting phase as they would (or should anyway) do during a bulking phase... the only differences would obviously be diet, the poundages he is lifting and off course cardio (HIIT preferably).

Well I try not to be too extreme because you wind up alienating people. What I tend to do is suggest a program like 5x5 or any program based primarily on getting the big compounds up and have them do it for a period of bulking or whatever. After that, their whole belief system seems to change and it's a non-issue, they might still use isolation work but it's far more rationally applied. Sort of like explaining to someone via the human biology/physiology that the testicles are a vulnerable area, much easier and more effective to give them a kick or smack and let the realization settle over them.

I think there might be some benefit in certain periods to increasing isolation work (not at the expense of dropping core exercises though). Not in pure bulking and likely not in normal cutting but maybe a sub-period where they want to work on aesthetic or functional weak points. Maybe precontest. I just kind of throw this out there as an option, most people need a lot less isolation work than they believe and to be honest I think it should be kept to the bare minimum unless there is a specific current need.

 

[Madcow2]

I am glad people are realizing that proper training leads to size, but I don't recall one of the posters on that t-mag link grasping any of it,

That was the bummer for me too. So much of training is so very simple yet it takes 10 times as long to sink in for a bodybuilder because they've been so screwed over by the press, supplement companies, and roid boys for the past 25 years.

 

[silver_shadow]

Sort of like explaining to someone via the human biology/physiology that the testicles are a vulnerable area, much easier and more effective to give them a kick or smack and let the realization settle over them.

LOL

good stuff