the uselessness of kung fu (video)

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Yeah , and if youre Thin or have Long arms you can get it from almost anything even RESEMBLING a Guillotine , so long as the head dosent hit that Breakaway point before you go at it , its a really nice one .

What do you Train in , and who with ?

I coast around occasionally from school to school for mat time, but I'm headquartered at Tim Burrill Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. Tim recieved his black belt from Carlos Machado.

 

[Djimbe]

Really ? The wife & I are planning a COUPLE of trips to Boston in the coming weeks , one simply so that I can play some Music with an Old Friend for a One-Night-Stand and were in Eatern PA ... Perhaps one of those days Ill come by and let you slap a couple of Joint locks on my big ass ???

You guys seem to do a LOT of Gi training though , and thats hard to find at my size ... even if I could come by and Observe Id be honoured . Theres also a GREAT frind of ours and FANTASTIC crew o guys that train an hiour op the Road in Plymouth , MA on saturday mornings . If you really DO float about from time to time then these would SURELY be the cats to Check out ! they will DEFINATELY make you re-think some things ! And theyre really great Drinkers !

Were going to be up there sat the 28th (for the Show) , and again PROBABLY on the 11th - but we arrive on the Previous Sunday , so were in the Area a Week that time .

What Rank are you , how long you been training , and whom/what shouldnt I Miss fom a MA perspective whilst running about the Area like an Imbicile ?

 

[Big Rick Rock]

What the heck does that even mean , and who the hell are YOU laughing at ? Un;less you want to share your Humour with the rest of the class keep a cap on it , Mod or not . YOu have an Issue with the Merits of something that i have to say ? ARGUE it then , and if youre in the Right Il READILY bow to your superior methodoogy . But frankly , to this point you sound a LOT like a guy that watches a LOT of MMA and has VERY little Training under his Belt . When yoe asked about Martial Training you dnt talk about Teachers that youve met and trained under , you talk about STYLES and SYSTEMS - all of wich can be good AND bad





We werent SPEAKING about Ideals , we were talking about a Source Video , and IN said Video the PERSON IN QUESTION has a Free Hand . You see , this is another Indicator of a person with more "theory" than experience , The long Time practitioner KNOWS that the Situation at hand is what matters - not what you WISH you could do , or what Position that you WISH youWOULD have been in . In THIS CASE he HAS a free hand , and I was talking about the Technique that he SHOULD have applied if he wanted to win FROM THAT POINT .



You see , this second one I already Popped in my OTHER post . HAD he done this then Royce would have had access to his hands and EASILY removed them from him . My method makes the hands Inaccessable with any kind of helpful power behind them .




Why ? the fact that ive choked out ppl with TEN YEARS of BJJ under their belts with this move isnt enough ? I dont have to be TOLD that it works . I have this stuff we like to call Time In in CMA . Its the number of seconds , minutes and Hours that you spend training - you know , TRYING things . And not just copying from Books and Videoes either . If THATS not enough for you Creutzfeldt Just "Vouched" that HES seen the move before , AND that it works . But what if hes not a GJJ Blue Belt - does that make him Wrong or a Liar as well ? Even though hes never met me before in his life and has NO reason to Agree with me ?






Im not talking aout he Hand on the guys back pulling him into you . You Clasp the Wrist or Forearm of the hand thats on the guys back/neck with the hand that has the Bone on the Throat . when you Rotate the Bone tward his Trachea and push it puts him in a Vice/Scissors he CANT Breathe , get Blood Flow , nor can he REACH the hand thats Applying the majority of the Force .



And if you knew what I was even talking aboutyou would understand how Futile this action was . As in , how many muscles you would be trying to Fight against with how few .

And the Technique that IM describing makes the pressure NEARLY OIMPOSSIBLE to relieve in this manner , because you cant get Leverage onto th Fulcrum thats applying the force in question .

If the hand around your neck is clasping the other other "free" hand then you have to try to break that grip of the two and in the mean while you'll be getting choked out...



EXCTLY . Youre NOT relying on FINGER strength to complete the Hold . Youre Figure Fouring your PALM against your FOREARM wich is FAR more secure a way to apply pressure . And a lot MORE of it .



Thesae are both Rediculous unless youre Elastic Man . I dont know about YOU , but I can barely SCRATCh that part of my Back , much less supply enough force to Rip another Human beings arm off of it when hes doing a Triceps Extension or whatever . you can try to use yur mal Shoulder Muscles against that of his Triceps if YOU want to , but its Futile at best , and the other hand is NO help whatsoever .






Im sorry I KNOW thios Post is probably going to cost me som "Love Points" or what have you , bt frankly Im REALLY tryin my best to Be Ciuvil and not just Flame Outrigt .

Why ?

Because you basically , without coming Right out an SAYING so (wich is what someone with actual STRNGTH in their Convictions would at least do) are trying to act as if NO ONE cou;ld hae ANY sort of "Say" about Grappling if all of their Training didnt come from the Gracie Family in some manner , BJJ is a Decent sysem , but ts lacking in MANY things , Striking only einf ONE of them , not ALL . I like the Catch Wrestling Armbar better than the Gracie one , as well . Do you need to go "Ask A Blue Belt" about THAT ? You know how INSULTING that is ? Ive been Practicing MAs for TWENTY FIVE YEARS . I evn PREFACED my post by saying I many not be Describing my point well , so ASK if you cant see it mentally for CLARIFICATION . Did you do this ?

Nope .

You decided that because I was saying something that wasnt TEXTBOOK GRACIE or that YOU hadnt heard before that I MUST be Wrong . WHY ? Because NOTING works EXCEPT GJJ and BJJ , right ? Do you know how ARROGANT that comes off ? Especially when from the tone and Content of your posts YOU arent even a BJJ Blue yet .

You didnt say "Is there a Book/vid I can see this in ?" you didnt say "Ive never seen that before , let me ask my Teacher" you LAUGHED DOWN YOUR NOSE AT ME at the MERE THOUGHT that there MIGHT be a better way to do things than your appearant WHITE BELT has equipped you with the knowledge of .

This kind of thing is DANGEROUS to the MA community at large . WHY ? Because youre going to Scare some kid away from some PERFECTLY decent MA school some day because it isnt on your "Approved Styles List" You REALLY think that you know the REALITY of what works an doesnt becase you have seen a few Sportfighting PPVs ? You REALLY think that you know the REALITy of what Systems are BEST for Housewives and little ppl to use to get themselves out of Trouble ? Why , because ome Olympic Level Athlete does best with it ?

And before you DEIGN to THINK that Im some kind of "Fanboi" like you present yourself to be to me , I was at a Muay Thai class TODAY , and in the last month Ive trained with and In over ten styles of Martial Arts that Im NOT a Specialist in by ANY means . And I spar HARD and OFTEN . When's the last time you went into Bagua class ? Taji ? Xingyiquan ? No , Im serious;ly curious , How long have you been Training, and in what ? What Experience DO you have with Chinese Grappling and tyhe Systems that Apply it Heavily ?

Ill wager NEVER , and NONE .

Or do you . like may others think that all "Kung Fu" is the same ? "Kung Fu" in thuis Country is a Generic term LUMPING TOGETHER over a THOUSAND different MAs . So thinking that Fighting ONE "Kung Fu" guy is fighting us ALL and that theyre ALL the SAME is Arrogence and Prejudgement bordering on Racism . I mean , if its from CHINA it MUST SUCK , right ?

And until you do , refrain from thinking that you know enough to laugh at someone for posting something that YOU never heard before . It wont be TWO posts before another Jacob Creutzfeldt is there to Correct you .

Im going to end this now before I say something that I cant take back , but please , in future dont laugh Mockingly at that wich you have never experienced .

Wow.... you seem pretty upset. I didn't take the time to read your whole post cause I got some work to do (just got back after being away for 5 days). THE USE OF CAPS AND ANGRY WORDS makes me think you are upset about something.

I think Jacob K did a better job of describing the choke and I can see what he was talking about. I'm not sure its the best thing to do in a no-gi situation but I'll give it a shot the way Jacob describes next time I'm on the mat and see how it works.

Try to relax and not take it so personal. Nobody is trying to put you down or say you don't know what you are talking about. I only said "LOL" at the fact that you are always preaching about the Chinese arts... Not to say there is anything wrong with it, I was just pointing it out. I like having diversity around and you input is always welcome, even when I don't agree with it.
We are all here to share ideas and if an "LOL" really upsets you that much then you might want to look into a different forum or something. There is no need to get your Chi all out of balance over something I said. If you are that confident in the "over ten styles of Martial Arts" you practice, then you don't need some people on an internet forum to validate their effectiveness for you.


PS:
The reason I don't talk about schools and people I study under has to do with my position on this site and identity. You haven't been around long enough to know about some of the BS that went on a couple of years ago with some people in this site. I talk openly about my trainers and schools with people on another MMA forum I frequent, but I just wont do it here.



-BRR

 

[Djimbe]

Wow.... you seem pretty upset. I didn't take the time to read your whole post cause I got some work to do (just got back after being away for 5 days). THE USE OF CAPS AND ANGRY WORDS makes me think you are upset about something.

1) I use Caps to Emphasise words because Im Autistic (aspergers) and It would take me ten times as long to try to edit a Post wih a billion Italics in it . the Caps DO NOT mean "Anger" they just mean EMPHASIS , like when you sort of LEAN on a word in Conversation . Im sorry about the Confusion , but I REALLY HONESTLY cant help it .

2) I AM upset about something , but I feel that I did my best to stick to WHAT it was I was angry ABOUT , and not Digress . If I failed to do so in all ways and DID however Digress , I apologise .

3) I can wait until you read th Entire thing . Im in no Hurry . I feel that my points , while a bit BLUNT are Cogent , Valid , and Warranted .

I think Jacob K did a better job of describing the choke and I can see what he was talking about. I'm not sure its the best thing to do in a no-gi situation but I'll give it a shot the way Jacob describes next time I'm on the mat and see how it works.

It works WAY better no-Gi than Gi . Even if I had Gis on the opponent Ive learned to Ignore the Gi and just go for the leveredge/fig 4 itself .

Try to relax and not take it so personal. Nobody is trying to put you down or say you don't know what you are talking about. I only said "LOL" at the fact that you are always preaching about the Chinese arts... Not to say there is anything wrong with it, I was just pointing it out. I like having diversity around and you input is always welcome, even when I don't agree with it.

I speak from the Standpoint of my personal Experience and Expertise . I have trained for over a 1/4 CENTURY in CMA . I make sure that its known what Perspective Im speaking from , and then I speak from it .You said that you had an Issue with a certain thing ,an I told you that i had never had ANY sch issue , so perhaps you should look into what I train in . You laughes as if someone had told you a Joke , as if there could be NOTHING that you could POSSIBLY learn from said source . You later aded furthur insult by the Insinuation that asking a BLUE BELT (what 3 years exp ?) would somehow override what someone with 25+ years of exp has to say . Thats Insulting and Condescending . you didnt say Il ask my TEACHER or even a BROWN belt - You said "Ill ask the second worst Rank In my system - they will know AT LEAST as much as YOU do ."

You acting in other threads like going to the WORST Muay Thai gym in ANY Area would still be better than going to the Grandmaster of the Water Boxing system (or Xingyi , or Taiji , or whatever) IS insulting . If someone from Boston said "Whats A Good School Near Me" and you said "Sityodtong Muay Thai" then you would have me SHOUTING "OH HELL YEAH - THATS FREAKING GNARLY GYM !!! THOSE GUYS KICK SOOO MUUUCCCHHH AAAASSSSSS !!!!" But you dont . You say "Just go do MT" thats a CRAP answer , and it dosent do anyone any favours . I know MT gyms that I would Intentionally send my Enemies to JUST SO they would NEVER be able to stand a chance of beating me art ANY kind of fight . Oh , and you wouldnt even MENTON San Da/San Shou in the same Breath , even though Jason Yee's School is there ,and has a better record over a longer period .

We are all here to share ideas and if an "LOL" really upsets you that much then you might want to look into a different forum or something. There is no need to get your Chi all out of balance over something I said.

Actually it had only PARTIALLY to do with that ne "lol" it had to do with the condescending manner that you suggested that what I was saying could NOT POSSIBLY be Valid in and of itself simply due to its Source of Origin . That unless/Until you "Checked It Out Against BJJ" that What I was saying was totally worthless . Thats not an Atmosphere where it sounds like anyone is Anywhere to do ANY kind of "Sharing" It sounds a great deal like "If it dosent come from MY school of thought it sucks" .

If you are that confident in the "over ten styles of Martial Arts" you practice, then you don't need some people on an internet forum to validate their effectiveness for you.

Please read what I wrote , not what you wanted to see .

I said that i partake in classes of MAs that I DONT particularly consider myself a Practitioner of , and have RECENTLY been to the classes of 10 systems that I dont claim to be "Mine" or have any In-Depth Tme In invested in . Yet I still Train with these people , and I manage to do so without Laughing at them because of the Country of Origin of their system(s) .

PS:
The reason I don't talk about schools and people I study under has to do with my position on this site and identity. You haven't been around long enough to know about some of the BS that went on a couple of years ago with some people in this site. I talk openly about my trainers and schools with people on another MMA forum I frequent, but I just wont do it here.



-BRR

Well its obvious from your wee ongoing "Jokes" about Chi and crap that you have very little Respect for anything that comes out of China . And WHATEVER your Identity may be dosent preclude you from answering the question of how many CMA classes of High Level have you been in with Actual Sparring in them ?

And yes , there are a lot of McDojos in CMA , that does NOT mean that there are NO good Teachers out there , nor does it mean that the good teachers out there should Suffer for the Charlitains . AS ADULTS we should be able to devine the difference and tell people what a GOOD SCHOOL has to offer , and not be Predjudiced by styles or ENTIRE CONTRIES of Origin . Youve never heard ME speak about using "Chi" to do ANYTHING - Do you even know what Chi IS ? or what I THINK it is ??? - so where the hell do you get off Coming at me as If Im some sort of Empty-Force Kong-Jiin nutrider ?

Like I said , your Predjudices SHOW wether you come right out and say them or not .

 

[Big Rick Rock]

1) I use Caps to Emphasise words because Im Autistic (aspergers) and It would take me ten times as long to try to edit a Post wih a billion Italics in it . the Caps DO NOT mean "Anger" they just mean EMPHASIS , like when you sort of LEAN on a word in Conversation . Im sorry about the Confusion , but I REALLY HONESTLY cant help it .

2) I AM upset about something , but I feel that I did my best to stick to WHAT it was I was angry ABOUT , and not Digress . If I failed to do so in all ways and DID however Digress , I apologise .

3) I can wait until you read th Entire thing . Im in no Hurry . I feel that my points , while a bit BLUNT are Cogent , Valid , and Warranted .



It works WAY better no-Gi than Gi . Even if I had Gis on the opponent Ive learned to Ignore the Gi and just go for the leveredge/fig 4 itself .



I speak from the Standpoint of my personal Experience and Expertise . I have trained for over a 1/4 CENTURY in CMA . I make sure that its known what Perspective Im speaking from , and then I speak from it .You said that you had an Issue with a certain thing ,an I told you that i had never had ANY sch issue , so perhaps you should look into what I train in . You laughes as if someone had told you a Joke , as if there could be NOTHING that you could POSSIBLY learn from said source . You later aded furthur insult by the Insinuation that asking a BLUE BELT (what 3 years exp ?) would somehow override what someone with 25+ years of exp has to say . Thats Insulting and Condescending . you didnt say Il ask my TEACHER or even a BROWN belt - You said "Ill ask the second worst Rank In my system - they will know AT LEAST as much as YOU do ."

You acting in other threads like going to the WORST Muay Thai gym in ANY Area would still be better than going to the Grandmaster of the Water Boxing system (or Xingyi , or Taiji , or whatever) IS insulting . If someone from Boston said "Whats A Good School Near Me" and you said "Sityodtong Muay Thai" then you would have me SHOUTING "OH HELL YEAH - THATS FREAKING GNARLY GYM !!! THOSE GUYS KICK SOOO MUUUCCCHHH AAAASSSSSS !!!!" But you dont . You say "Just go do MT" thats a CRAP answer , and it dosent do anyone any favours . I know MT gyms that I would Intentionally send my Enemies to JUST SO they would NEVER be able to stand a chance of beating me art ANY kind of fight . Oh , and you wouldnt even MENTON San Da/San Shou in the same Breath , even though Jason Yee's School is there ,and has a better record over a longer period .



Actually it had only PARTIALLY to do with that ne "lol" it had to do with the condescending manner that you suggested that what I was saying could NOT POSSIBLY be Valid in and of itself simply due to its Source of Origin . That unless/Until you "Checked It Out Against BJJ" that What I was saying was totally worthless . Thats not an Atmosphere where it sounds like anyone is Anywhere to do ANY kind of "Sharing" It sounds a great deal like "If it dosent come from MY school of thought it sucks" .



Please read what I wrote , not what you wanted to see .

I said that i partake in classes of MAs that I DONT particularly consider myself a Practitioner of , and have RECENTLY been to the classes of 10 systems that I dont claim to be "Mine" or have any In-Depth Tme In invested in . Yet I still Train with these people , and I manage to do so without Laughing at them because of the Country of Origin of their system(s) .



Well its obvious from your wee ongoing "Jokes" about Chi and crap that you have very little Respect for anything that comes out of China . And WHATEVER your Identity may be dosent preclude you from answering the question of how many CMA classes of High Level have you been in with Actual Sparring in them ?

And yes , there are a lot of McDojos in CMA , that does NOT mean that there are NO good Teachers out there , nor does it mean that the good teachers out there should Suffer for the Charlitains . AS ADULTS we should be able to devine the difference and tell people what a GOOD SCHOOL has to offer , and not be Predjudiced by styles or ENTIRE CONTRIES of Origin . Youve never heard ME speak about using "Chi" to do ANYTHING - Do you even know what Chi IS ? or what I THINK it is ??? - so where the hell do you get off Coming at me as If Im some sort of Empty-Force Kong-Jiin nutrider ?

Like I said , your Predjudices SHOW wether you come right out and say them or not .

Thats a pretty long post. Too much for me to take the time out to read. I will answer your question about how many CMA classes with sparring I have attended... NONE. I just have not see any that have sparked my interest.

I'm not saying that chinese arts are not effective. I just don't think I'll find a better strking system than Muay Thai and boxing, or a better grappling art than BJJ or a better takedown system than Freestyle/Greco Roma wrestling or Judo.
These are all world wide sports that have been refined thru years of competition. Not just theory but real world competition.
Even if I wanted to take up weapons training I would give Kali/Schrima a try before I went to a CMA McDojo.

These are just my opinions, I could be wrong.


-BRR

 

[Big Rick Rock]

I think I submitted someone with the choke you are talking about. His head was dead center with my body when I wrapped my right arm around similar to the beginning of a guillotine, then place my right hand into the crook of my left bicep. Then I placed my left hand between his shoulder blade and trapezius muscle, squeezed my elbows together, and pressed down with my hand and arched my chest simultaneously. I do not know the name of the choke, but a few guys in my class use it to great effect.

Did the guy have a full mount on you?



-BRR

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Did the guy have a full mount on you?



-BRR

No. We faced eachother in a kneeling position.

 

[Djimbe]

Thats a pretty long post. Too much for me to take the time out to read. I will answer your question about how many CMA classes with sparring I have attended... NONE. I just have not see any that have sparked my interest.

Thats fine , but until YOU have the , well , I would use the word Temerity but lets face it , BALLS to step up and challenge your Presumptions then youre nothing but an Empty Can making a LOT of noise .

I'm not saying that chinese arts are not effective. I just don't think I'll find a better strking system than Muay Thai and boxing, or a better grappling art than BJJ or a better takedown system than Freestyle/Greco Roma wrestling or Judo.

Any time that were anywhere near one another I would be happy to show you holes in all systems mentioned , as well as a few in the ones that i study of wich you are unfamiliar . All of wich are holes that could EASILY get one KILLED in a Streetfight in the right (Commonplace) situations . If you had enough in you to show to a real school and learn NOT just what makes the systems DIFFERENT , but what makes them SIMILAR , I would be HAPPY to provide you with great ones near you .

But honestly , if you cant even educate yourself byu reading a Post you CHOOSE to remain Uninformed .

The problem with this is that you think that this is the state of someone that thiks themself worthy of giving out "Advice" on a message board . If youre not Interested in Educating yourself on Martial Arts , why Post in an Online Community then ? Just simply to Whore Out the arts you study ? This is a real question and Id like an answer .

These are all world wide sports that have been refined thru years of competition. Not just theory but real world competition.

None of the systems that I study lack in either Competition OR BATTLEFIELD Application . Just because the Competitions dont make as much money as the UFC dosent mean anything . The All Chinas were around a long time b4 Zuffa , bud . And again this is Condescending . What would you know about "Theory" ? "It all SOUNDS like "Theory" Till I hit you in the face with it" - One of my Teachers to a Challenger .

Theres nothign THEORETICAL in any of my classes , mate . We do Drilling , and Shadowboxing , and Padwork and Bagwork JUST LIKE YOU DO . Oh , and guess what ? MY version of a Heabag is made of WOOD . And YES I DO hit it full stop .

Even if I wanted to take up weapons training I would give Kali/Schrima a try before I went to a CMA McDojo.

AGAIN you insinuate that ALL CMA SCHOOLS ARE McDOJO !!!

I would o to ANY NON-McDojo before I went to ANY McDojo - do you see how Ignorantly Condescending you sound ? Are you CAPABLE of seeing it ? Or do you LITERALLY NEED to have someone rom a Chinese system beat you into Unconsciousness before you can see the Efficacy of them ?

Oh , and Escrima is cute inside its own Element . What do you do when you have to pick up somethign on the fly that is bigger than that ? Learning the ng weapon as well as the short is best for Survival . And put an Escriador up against a Swordsman of the Nitten school and see what happens .

These are just my opinions, I could be wrong.


-BRR

No , they arent opinions , on THAT you are CERTAINLY wrong . All that you have is Biased Speculation . Its funny that americans dont really know what the word Opinion means ...

You see , you can't have an Opinion on a Film till youve seen it , or on a Meal till you have tasted it .

You , sir , have never even Picked up the Fork .

 

[Djimbe]

Did the guy have a full mount on you?



-BRR

Whos going to be stupid enoug to give you a guillotine if they have Full mount on you ?

 

[Big Rick Rock]

Whos going to be stupid enoug to give you a guillotine if they have Full mount on you ?

I think we just watched a video where a guy (Royce Gracie) gave away a guillotine while executing a take down and still got the full mount... Soooooo.... The KF guy had a guillotine one Royce Gracie while RC had a full mount.


The answer to your question: Royce Gracie.


Please gather yourself.



-BRR