the uselessness of kung fu (video)

[tbuz67]

Well, I first see the guy go for a guillotine, but that could've been basic fighting instinct. As he was down, he tried to grapevine Royce's legs, but with no success. Most people don't think about stuff like that. Then Royce had his back, and looks like he was going to go for the naked choke. The guy knew enough to keep Royce's arm tied up to not let Royce put him to sleep. Then the guy got out of that. Not too many people have it in them to escape once Royce has their back. He goes directly into Royce's guard, though, and of course defeat is inevitable.
Whether he was really squirmy or just lucky, no one can say unless they know who the guy is and his skills. He didn't look very experienced on the ground against Royce. But he did survive longer than several of the UFC fighters Royce has fought.

 

[Djimbe]

Tbuz67 :

The Guillotine and the "grapevine" Is what tells me that . I mean , IF he knew what to do with his other hand he HAD Royce . It was all Instinct and Squirmimng though , he had NO Idea what to do to close the moves out/lock them in . Royce IS a good Technician , but particularly STRONG he isnt . Had the guy known ow to Finish the holds/Apply them properly he would have taken the Victory .

 

[tbuz67]

the guillotine probably came out of instinct. But the double grapevine is something that you learn, whether its high school wrestling or whatever. Most people who don't have any groundfighting experience at all wouldn't even think of attempting a grapevine or a double grapevine. All I'm saying is the guy must've known something about groundfighting. Enough to know that Royce was going for a naked choke. In this day and age, not too many people interested in MMA aren't aware of Royce and his groundfighting skills, and groundfighting in general as an effective way of defense. So he couldn't turn the tide against Royce. Not too many people could.
Its hard to say whether the guy couldve defeated Royce if he knew more technique. I'm sure Royce is as adept at defending against submissions as he is at applying them.

 

[Djimbe]

oh , dont get me Wrong , When I say that he would have had him I was only referring to the Guillotine , THAT guillotine should have been the end of htat Fight , & had he known it properly it would have been .

 

[JayC9]

i wouldn't go as far as to say useless

 

[Big Rick Rock]

Ok... That guy got his ass whooped.

As soon as Royce got the full mount and poped his head out of the Guillotine chocke, the Kung Fu guy gave him the opportinuty for an arm bar... That fight could have been over QUICK!

I did not see any effective work being done by the KF guy once he was put on the ground... I did see him opening up and giving RG the ooportunity to apply submission after submission...

Royce toyed with him, that thing would have been over a lot earlier.


Also, some of you guys mention a "grapevine" attempt by the KF guy... I didn't see it either... Please point it out to me.


-BRR

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Ok... That guy got his ass whooped.

As soon as Royce got the full mount and poped his head out of the Guillotine chocke, the Kung Fu guy gave him the opportinuty for an arm bar... That fight could have been over QUICK!

I did not see any effective work being done by the KF guy once he was put on the ground... I did see him opening up and giving RG the ooportunity to apply submission after submission...

Royce toyed with him, that thing would have been over a lot earlier.


Also, some of you guys mention a "grapevine" attempt by the KF guy... I didn't see it either... Please point it out to me.


-BRR

I never saw a grapevine either. Perhaps the ill informed refer to the leg positioning of the Kung-fu practitioner shortly after Royce mounts him. Royce actually has the grapevine and the bottom man is trying to stretch his legs beyond Royce's to break the grapevine which is essentially the opposite of what you should do in that situation.

Those elbows to the spine were nasty.

 

[Big Rick Rock]

oh , dont get me Wrong , When I say that he would have had him I was only referring to the Guillotine , THAT guillotine should have been the end of htat Fight , & had he known it properly it would have been .

I disagree.

There was little hope for that guillotine with RG on the full-mount.
If the KF guy had his legs on the outside (guard) then he would have a chance. A huge part of what makes the Guillotine work is being able to arch your back and strech out your opponent putting his neck in a fucked up angle. It is just too easy to shift your position when on the full mount and break that choke.

My vote is: That guillotine never had a chance with the top guy having passed your legs. There is just no leverage there.

PS: On a standing guillotine choke, gravity is doing the job your legs would on the ground.


Anybody else want to comment? Lets hear from some of the Blue belts.


-BRR

 

[Big Rick Rock]

I never saw a grapevine either. Perhaps the ill informed refer to the leg positioning of the Kung-fu practitioner shortly after Royce mounts him. Royce actually has the grapevine and the bottom man is trying to stretch his legs beyond Royce's to break the grapevine which is essentially the opposite of what you should do in that situation.

Those elbows to the spine were nasty.

I think Royce could have ended the fight if he wanted to right when the KF guy tried to push Royce off and turn to the side.
He put his arm out there to push Royce off and got his shoulderblades off the canvas to roll to the right... Royce could have just trapped the left arm and rolled with the KF guy's momentun and throw his right leg over as the guy bellied down. WAM! arm bar....

Reminded me of how Rodrigo Nogueira beat Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic... Same shit.



-BRR

 

[Djimbe]

I disagree.

There was little hope for that guillotine with RG on the full-mount.
If the KF guy had his legs on the outside (guard) then he would have a chance. A huge part of what makes the Guillotine work is being able to arch your back and strech out your opponent putting his neck in a fucked up angle. It is just too easy to shift your position when on the full mount and break that choke.

My vote is: That guillotine never had a chance with the top guy having passed your legs. There is just no leverage there.

PS: On a standing guillotine choke, gravity is doing the job your legs would on the ground.


Anybody else want to comment? Lets hear from some of the Blue belts.


-BRR

You really need to learn the Chinese Variation of that Choke , I get guys in that position all the time . Gjj guys never seem to see it coming . I dont know if I can Describe it Properly , but it as to do with the Free hand , you sort of make a "Brace" with it behind the guys back/neck (back is preferable) in the stead of Pulling on it like you see Wrestlers/BJJ players do , then you Spiral the blade of your Forearm bone into the guys throat while pinching your elbows in Tward each other . If he pulls away it ncreases the pressure on his Throat if he rolls out to EITHER side you get top Position and still have the Choke on .