Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

The truth about orals! Read this!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Juice Authority
  • Start date Start date
Red yeast rice actually contains eight identified compounds with HMG-CoA reductase inhibitory activity (including lovastatin and its active metabolite). So yes, good stuff, but bad cuz unless you know the exact concentration or standardization of the supplement you are buying, you have no idea how much benefit/harm you are getting.
For JA's post, I think it raises the very important point of how critical it is to be able to interpret the findings of studies. When reading a study, one must consider what type of study was actually done. By this, I mean was it a randomized-controlled study? Were the subjects, investigators blinded? RCT's generally are considered the "gold standard" by which we gauge studies. But they may not always be appropriate. Other study types include: Cohort, Case-controls, cross-sectional and case-reports (among others). They each have their role in scientific applications. But most importantly is for the reader to be able to assess the validity of the study being presented "Do the reported outcomes represent the true direction and magnitude of the effects?" When reading a study, always ask yourself if the patients/subjects they were studying actually represent the true population (you and me). Always consider what kinds of bias (anything that erroneously influences conclusions about the groups under investigation and distorts the comparisons) that may be present in the study that can influence results. Bias comes in many forms and it is not always easy to detect. Ask yourself if there were things about the subjects being studied that could have affected the end result or outcome (did the subjects already have an underlying complication, or were subjects selected from a non-representful group of the population, was the sample size adequate, etc?) Consider how subjects were recruited for the study. Many times subjects are selected based on certain inclusion and exclusion criteria. Many times, studies are done on healthy, young individuals (or even the opposite is found). Consider the time period which the study was conducted. Do you feel the time was adequate enough to produce a noticible effect? Most importantly, read the methods part of the study. This is where you will find the information you need to be able to decide if the study is valid or not. Most people just read the abstract, or read the intro and skip to the conclusion/discussion. This is bad because most authors will want their study to shine. By not reading the methods section, you are missing out on the "meat" of the study. It is in here where you will be able to find potential biases that exist which may decrease validity of the study. Always read the study with an open mind, and always ask yourself "so what"?. Consider what may have happened if the investigators did things differently.
My point is to try and get people to really "read" the study and not just the abstract or conclusion section. Always consider the true validity of the study. Can the results be extrapolated you and me! You need to make your own decision about the study. Remember that so many variables/bias exist which can ultimately affect the true validity of the study. Just because the study was done in a certain group of people does not mean it can be generalized to the true population. Read with an open mind, but consider why the investigators chose to do the things they did. You can learn more on interpreting scientific lit. by doing a general search on the internet. Or, for those who have access to full articles by pubmed/medline I will post some excellent reports that will help you in understanding the med lit.

Karma for JA, because he posted some very interesting studies that everyone should try and access if you can. Read them, and make your own conclusion from them. Don't take the authors word for the results that were found. Some places that you may find full access to free articles are:
bmj.com
http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/hardin/md/ej.html
http://www.gfmer.ch/Medical_journals/Free_medical_links.htm
http://www.lcls.lib.il.us/ste/ejournals.htm
http://www.coreynahman.com/medical_journals.html
http://www.freemedicaljournals.com
and nejm.com offers free journals after a certain time period (requires free registration)
 
what you guys are missing is the liver is extremely resilient. but push it too many times and it just fails.
 
I recently learned that my friend once stayed on dbol for 3 years non stop in the 70's.
 
doesnt Fonz reccommend gugguls, green tea extract, and tamoxifen for lipid profiles? (garlic too , but thats been metioned)
 
I questiion how much of an issue lipid profiles are.

I believe they are of great concern. I had blood work done while on a test + Dbol cycle at 30mg Dbol, and my HDL levels were practically non-existant. Dbol completely wiped out my HDL choleserol.

For those of you who don't know, it's your HDL ("good chosterol") that is responsible for disposing of surpluss cholesterol in the blood stream. Pretty much all orals will wipe out your HDL levels for months, leaving your body open for plaque formation and high bloosd pressure, and in the long run, contributing to heart disease and other cardiovascular problems.

So even if this article is correct in the point that liver toxicity is exagerrated, there is still the problem of your lipid profiles. If it's not one thing, it's another. Just be safe, and stick to the normal cycle guidlines that have been used for years. Don't use one article as an excuse to through years of experience out the window.
 
Last edited:
that's a great read.

i don't have a lot of experience but i've never understood why so much is made of the potential for liver damage with 17-a orals. alcohol and rec drugs are probably much worse, especially given the fact that abusers of these drugs rarely cycle them. how long does it take an alcoholic to destroy a liver? decades, provided he had a healthy one to start with.
 
Top Bottom