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The safest steroid
- Thread starter chordz
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Good choice,along with primo.
D
Deleted member 33117
Guest
I would say nandrolone of any type, primo or boldenone. All are mild, and non-toxic.
Mg per mg, it's mostly the ones which are the weakest -- not surprisingly.
Deca and bolderone are not non-toxic.
Deca and bolderone are not non-toxic.
Yes NPP is by far the safest IMO
Of course primo comes to mind, but it's so difficult to find it's not an option for most. Ironically, counterfeit primo is NPP.
Anavar is fairly mild, but it is a 17aa steroid.
Safest/best stack for beginners is the following:
W1-4: Dbol 15mg ED
W1-6: NPP 100mg EOD (350 a week)
W5-8: Anavar 30mg ED
Of course primo comes to mind, but it's so difficult to find it's not an option for most. Ironically, counterfeit primo is NPP.
Anavar is fairly mild, but it is a 17aa steroid.
Safest/best stack for beginners is the following:
W1-4: Dbol 15mg ED
W1-6: NPP 100mg EOD (350 a week)
W5-8: Anavar 30mg ED
IHateCrunches
New member
BigAndy69 said:
Safety is always a major concern of mine. I have a question. HOw would you run this...
I have 5 bottles of liqidvar (50mg/ml.. i dont know how many ml) and 4 200mg/ml 10ml bottles of EQ.
I want to take no more than 40mg anavar daily and no more then 500mg EQ per week. Any suggestions?
IHateCrunches said:
Well, you don't give me much to play with, here it goes:
Eq:
W1-10: 500mg a week
Anavar:
50mg ED W1-4 (by the time Eq "kicks in")
35mg ED W11-13 (by the time the EQ clears)
Taper with the anavar all the way down to 15mg ED the last few days, and then hit clomid therapy.
I don't necessary like the cycle but it's the best I can do with what you've given me
under_dawg
New member
BigAndy69 said:
Nice job! I like...anyone else have any thoughts? nelson?
under_dawg said:
Nice job! I like...anyone else have any thoughts? nelson?
I already answered but since my obnoxiously garish sig has been taken away, no one notices.
JerseyDevil
New member
anadrol
JerseyDevil
New member
just kidding
Powerhouse_101
New member
why aren't people saying WINSTROL????
non armoatizable, very light, 99.5% are solely using this, many benefits, ok doesnt make you 'thick' all round, but DOES build muscle. hardens you up. VERY safe.
so why isnt number 1 WINNY?
non armoatizable, very light, 99.5% are solely using this, many benefits, ok doesnt make you 'thick' all round, but DOES build muscle. hardens you up. VERY safe.
so why isnt number 1 WINNY?
twistedneck
New member
DHT is also non toxic. (masteron)
Powerhouse_101
New member
Fonz said:
but donesnt it return to normal soon after you end the cycle. also another positive of a winstrol only cycle is no need for PCT because it is non armotisable.
i am planning my 1st cycle as a winny only cycle, and i am strongly decided with this. however, i do know of the cholesterol problem you pointed out (Fonz) , are there any precautions I can take to guard against it ?
with regards and appreciation
Powerhouse_101
p.s. any other points about winstrol, would also be appreciated!
D
DaddyX
Guest
Powerhouse_101 said:
1.hard on the hairline
2. hard on the liver
3. horrible for lipid profile
etc.........................
not very safe at all. i hope you were not serious
Test and deca are the safest in my opinion. Primo also however cost and legitimacy of product are the main concerns. I have been using 1gram of test and 400-600 mg of deca per week as well as cycling in d-bol at 50mg per week for 4 weeks then 4 weeks off and repeat. My blood work recently came back as excellent!
A
Ashamed
Guest
Let's say 20mg dbol has same effectiveness as 60mg anavar...
Then what would be safer? 20mg dbol or 70mg anavar?
Then what would be safer? 20mg dbol or 70mg anavar?
Ashamed said:
Good to see Ashamed contributing instead f flaming.
I somewhat agree with this point. I think Anavar has become somewhat overrated based on therepeutic dosages. But that doesn't make it safe at any dosage. In other words, it's the DOSAGE that determines efficacy and consequntial safety. ANY 7AA oral, even Var, is liver toxic and 60 mgs of Var is most likely more toxic than 30 mgs of D-bol. And REAL D-bol is not te bloating, sleep inducing crap available today. You canget just as cut on pure D-bol as you can on Var if you do it right. You may get a little more water retention, but big deal. Losing water isn't that hard.
I brought a similar point up in the 1997 Steroids For Health piece where I compared the supposedly super strong Anadrol to the supposedly inneffective Winstrol. I claimed that Mg per Mg the Winstrol is actually stronger. People FREAKED OUT! They just couldn't get past the notion of A-drol being weaker than Winstrol . But they were comparing the amount of actual PILLS as opposed to the mgs. Today, this is common knowledge.
One could make the argument for Primo in the same way. In part, it's weakness may be it's safety. (But Primo is extrodinarily anabolic, making it unique in that regard).
Bottom Line: All steroids are based on the testosterone molecule. (Some may agrue nanrolone, but that's not really true). So it really comes down mostly to dosage.
Nelson, it's hard to measure these things exactly, but would you say 1 gram of primo is safer than 500mg test? Does it make any sense to do this, or are you better off (results and safety wise) by going for something like 400mg test instead of so much primo (not to mention that no one is willing to pay $100+ dollars per week for one steroid).
D
DaddyX
Guest
Powerhouse_101 said:
ah, what ? not aromatizing has nothing to do with PCT. it will shut you down and thats why you need PCT. of course you need it with winstrol. you need to start reading some more before you screw up
Anakin said:
AS you said, it's hard to measure. Your comparison is a good one though. I'd have to say the gram of Primo will yield better results because you're getting more nitrogen retention. But I do think once people get into 3 or 4 compounds at over a gram a week it becomes a moot point. They might as well just do test.
psychedout
New member
Var/primo/Npp
I am anxious to try out Npp --time to save some cash.
I am anxious to try out Npp --time to save some cash.
Powerhouse_101
New member
I was being serious. Please let me explain. Ok, i am a teen (19) but 20 in a few months. however, i want my 1st cycle to be VERY light, non aromatisable, and with many universla benefits (basically the 'athletes' drug, winstrol). most athletes tke this drug, and with it their performance increases, muscle hardness increases, they drop bf, they gain SOME muscle (not an androgenic like other roids) etc
i hope u do understand my point. i will be doing a 12 week cycle with 100mg EOD injections. this, though i am not sure about. would i be better of taking winstrol orally? since its a 17aa, i have read the method of dosage does not matter.
to genarr who said its "VERY hard on the tendons" there is not really any proof that i know of for this to be true. i suspect this is true of all steriods which induce hypertophy, whilst the joints are still playing "catch up" so to speak.
however, i agree totally i am in need of more resarch, i plan to start my winstol only cycle in a few months, so i have enough time yet. i am still unsure of what PCT to use for the cycle. i was under the impression since it does not aromatise i do not need it. would the PCT cycle be long? would the dosages of the anti-E's be high? i would REALLY appreciate any advice on PCT whilst on a winstrol only cycle.
with regards and appreciation
powerhouse
i hope u do understand my point. i will be doing a 12 week cycle with 100mg EOD injections. this, though i am not sure about. would i be better of taking winstrol orally? since its a 17aa, i have read the method of dosage does not matter.
to genarr who said its "VERY hard on the tendons" there is not really any proof that i know of for this to be true. i suspect this is true of all steriods which induce hypertophy, whilst the joints are still playing "catch up" so to speak.
however, i agree totally i am in need of more resarch, i plan to start my winstol only cycle in a few months, so i have enough time yet. i am still unsure of what PCT to use for the cycle. i was under the impression since it does not aromatise i do not need it. would the PCT cycle be long? would the dosages of the anti-E's be high? i would REALLY appreciate any advice on PCT whilst on a winstrol only cycle.
with regards and appreciation
powerhouse
D
DaddyX
Guest
Powerhouse_101 said:
ok, you are really confused. first off, winstrol can be very hard on the joints in some users, no myth there. injected or not it is still 17-aa so 12 weeks of it is not a very good idea neither is running it alone. if you are not at a decent BF % 12 or less, i would not even use winny. your first cycle should be something like test and or eq. And the post cycle should be ran like it would be with antother cycle. you do not need any anti-e's. PCT should be done after the use of any steroid cycle, aromitization or not doesnt matter. it is ran to get you natural t-level up to par. try clomid or Nelsons herbal route. try anavr if you want the drug to benifit you with athletics, your joints will thanks you
Powerhouse_101
New member
1st of all many thanks for ur reply DaddyX
the reason why i am planning a winstrol only cycle is i want to do a very LIGHT roid with pleasing effects, a. no bloating (like a baloon on roids such as d-bol) and minimal sides. ok maybe joint pain is a side, but the guys i know who have done winstrol only cycles (my age. 18-20) did not have any sides at all. also i will be running a 8 week cycle maximum, not 12 week (i am not sure why i wrote 12 week, sorry). yes i agree 12 weeks would be too long, for a 17aa as it can be harsh on the liver and lipid profile (however this is only temporary and returns to normal soon after the end of the cycle.)
i also agree with u. i will be at around 10-12% bf before i begin the cycle. that is why i want another 4-5 months till i start it, and will also give me time to get everything in order and plan it more.
isnt clomid an anti-E? why would i use an anti-E with a wnstrol only cycle, as i thought winstol does not armoatise. what would the PCT look like for an winstrol only cycle? i was under the impression it would be short with low dosages of something such as nolva. although i am still confused why anti_E's are needed for a non aromatisable roid.
regards
Powerhouse_101
the reason why i am planning a winstrol only cycle is i want to do a very LIGHT roid with pleasing effects, a. no bloating (like a baloon on roids such as d-bol) and minimal sides. ok maybe joint pain is a side, but the guys i know who have done winstrol only cycles (my age. 18-20) did not have any sides at all. also i will be running a 8 week cycle maximum, not 12 week (i am not sure why i wrote 12 week, sorry). yes i agree 12 weeks would be too long, for a 17aa as it can be harsh on the liver and lipid profile (however this is only temporary and returns to normal soon after the end of the cycle.)
i also agree with u. i will be at around 10-12% bf before i begin the cycle. that is why i want another 4-5 months till i start it, and will also give me time to get everything in order and plan it more.
isnt clomid an anti-E? why would i use an anti-E with a wnstrol only cycle, as i thought winstol does not armoatise. what would the PCT look like for an winstrol only cycle? i was under the impression it would be short with low dosages of something such as nolva. although i am still confused why anti_E's are needed for a non aromatisable roid.
regards
Powerhouse_101
D
DaddyX
Guest
hey man 8 weeks is more like it. you are at a good bf% to do winny and people have ran it alone with success. i would do the 100mg eod injected or 50mg ed. as far as cloimd it is not used as an anti-e. you do not need any anti-e's with a non aromatizing drug. clomid is used soley on recovery. good luck bro and ask anymore questions you have.....peace BTW, i never got joint probs with winny, hopefully you wont either
Powerhouse_101
New member
DaddyX
many thanks for your reply sir! i hope i do not come across to u as being ignorant
i am not sure why i say that, but its because i feel that (although i am discussing this) i DO need to do more research and i definitly will. i am going to take my time and not rush into anything with my eyes closed, i would love to find out everything i can about a winstrol only cycle.
ok so clomid is not used as an anti-E post cycle with winstrol., could i use nolva instead because i have read a lot about it and its comparison (especially sides) with clomid, and it seems nolva is superior (on the front of it all). i am not entirely sure.....
many thanks for your reply sir! i hope i do not come across to u as being ignorant
i am not sure why i say that, but its because i feel that (although i am discussing this) i DO need to do more research and i definitly will. i am going to take my time and not rush into anything with my eyes closed, i would love to find out everything i can about a winstrol only cycle.ok so clomid is not used as an anti-E post cycle with winstrol., could i use nolva instead because i have read a lot about it and its comparison (especially sides) with clomid, and it seems nolva is superior (on the front of it all). i am not entirely sure.....
Powerhouse_101
New member
does anyone know if there would be a difference, in terms of health issues (lipid profiles, liver damage and other sides) and also in terms of effectiveness, between taking winstrol injectable or having the same dosaga orally in tabs.
many thanks
many thanks
Powerhouse_101
New member
BUMP!!
any replies to my Q's would be GREATLY appreciated.
power_101
any replies to my Q's would be GREATLY appreciated.
power_101
Powerhouse_101
New member
the only problem i have with injectables is the fact that i have to take 50mg EVERYDAY, so thats injecting everyday for 8-10 weeks straight.
would it be as affective to take 100mg EOD??
would it be as affective to take 100mg EOD??
Wistrol can not cause gyno so taking Nolva is pointless.
macrophage69alpha
New member
winstrol can aggravate gyno through increases in IGF-1, though generally it does not cause gyno
twistedneck
New member
OK, why does everyone ignore Masteron?
Its not toxic and its short acting. Its also available from most ug labs now.
Its not toxic and its short acting. Its also available from most ug labs now.
You suspect wrong. I know this from having ACTUALLY used the drug on many occasions, and just about every other drug mentioned here. Real world experience.Powerhouse_101 said:
It's the "Athletes" drug for "Athletes" that don't know any better.
Here's a good essay on steroids and their effects on tendons:
Per this thread over at bolex, EQ is even more joint friendly than Deca...
What do you think?
Anyone agree/disagree?
As a runner, this makes me thinkg EQ/Growth might be a better stack than Deca/Growth... especially when you consider how much more suppressive Deca is.
http://www.anabolex.com/forums/show...&threadid=83649
I'll cut and paste the thread just in case you aren't registered over there.
**************
Great read IMO... I usually try not to snag posts from other boards, but this one has been around the block
Borrowed from my other board and got there from being "Borrowed this from Anabolicfitness" LOL
"While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:
Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days
Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.
Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.
Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you."
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S
slobberknocker
Guest
Great post genarr. I'm out of karma otherwise I'd have hit you.
Powerhouse_101
New member
genarr that was an awesome reply brother! definitly made me re-think.
would a 8 week cycle (i am doing winny only) of 50mg injections ED be ok, and not cause joint pain? i guess its relative on the person, but i am just asking a general Q...
also this may be a little haywire, but I am going to be lifting in the rep range of 10-15 whilst on winny to insure the joints dont receieve any more stress than they need.
also i plan on supplementing glucosamine/chondriton formula a month b4 i start the cycle to get my joints ready.
from my past posts, you already know why I am choosing winny (mainly because its a pleasing light first timer cycle, and i have been recommended to it by a few guys i know ) . many thanks for your help dude
would a 8 week cycle (i am doing winny only) of 50mg injections ED be ok, and not cause joint pain? i guess its relative on the person, but i am just asking a general Q...
also this may be a little haywire, but I am going to be lifting in the rep range of 10-15 whilst on winny to insure the joints dont receieve any more stress than they need.
also i plan on supplementing glucosamine/chondriton formula a month b4 i start the cycle to get my joints ready.
from my past posts, you already know why I am choosing winny (mainly because its a pleasing light first timer cycle, and i have been recommended to it by a few guys i know ) . many thanks for your help dude
D
Deleted member 33117
Guest
Excellent post genarr3, and thank you for pointing out one of the benefits of boldenone, which was one of my choices for safest steroids. Not only does is strengthen conective tissue, but its effect on protien sythensis is equal to that of testosterone, yet it is only a substrait for the aromatase enzyme at approximately 42% of th rate that test is. Overall its a very mild drug int terms of side effects, but it yields excellent gains in quality mass.
Powerhouse_101
New member
ok now I am thinking of not doing winny
however i still want my 1st cycle to be very light, and using only one steriod, no stacking. i dont mind taking orals or injectables (injectables preferably because i want to get used to them ASAP for heavier cycles and also they are easier on the body, though maybe not with 17aa's)
I want to run something with similar effects to winstrol. harden up, lose some fat and gain some muscle. something light but wothwhile running.
can someone recommend any options for me, espeically from reading my previous posts?
many thanks once again bros
however i still want my 1st cycle to be very light, and using only one steriod, no stacking. i dont mind taking orals or injectables (injectables preferably because i want to get used to them ASAP for heavier cycles and also they are easier on the body, though maybe not with 17aa's)
I want to run something with similar effects to winstrol. harden up, lose some fat and gain some muscle. something light but wothwhile running.
can someone recommend any options for me, espeically from reading my previous posts?
many thanks once again bros
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EQPowerhouse_101 said:ok now I am thinking of not doing winny
however i still want my 1st cycle to be very light, and using only one steriod, no stacking. i dont mind taking orals or injectables (injectables preferably because i want to get used to them ASAP for heavier cycles and also they are easier on the body, though maybe not with 17aa's)
I want to run something with similar effects to winstrol. harden up, lose some fat and gain some muscle. something light but wothwhile running.
can someone recommend any options for me, espeically from reading my previous posts?
many thanks once again bros
Anavar
Lean muscle gains with both, however some experience "EQ hunger". Why this is I don't know, but you need to watch out for it.
athlete0185
New member
Powerhouse_101 said:
alls i have to say is have fun injecting ed or eod man. choose something different. i dont care if your an athlete. eat right and youll be fine and if your dosage isnt too high you wont blow up. your training and diet is going to help you as an athlete not the roids you take because they arent doing the work for you man.
in the same syringe: test enth 250 mg 2X a week, weeks 1-10
eq 200 mg 2x a week weeks 1-12
equals out to test 500 mg a week and eq 400 mg week. your wallet and all the places where you would be injecting everyday (ass, thigh, calves, bis, tris, delts) will thank you very much.
Powerhouse_101
New member
i plan supplementing with some joint formula of some sort (glucosamine chondriton etc) about a month before i start the cycle to avoid any joint page and damage.
this cycle looks pretty bullet proof to me in terms of safety now. especially because i am injecting, hardly any stress on liver and other organs.
this cycle looks pretty bullet proof to me in terms of safety now. especially because i am injecting, hardly any stress on liver and other organs.
Powerhouse_101
New member
hmmm, anavar is an oral, and i am against them for putting unecessary strain on the body organs, i do not mind taking injectables if it means better interal health.
also, does anavar have the same effects as winstrol?
also, does anavar have the same effects as winstrol?
Powerhouse_101
New member
OK!
now i am planning an 8 week cycle of anavar, 40mg ED split am pm.
would this reap better results than a winstrol only cycle? also are the negtive side effects less or more (as it is a 17aa oral) than injecting winny.
the thing with winny is the number it does on the liver and also the chronic joint damage it causes.
now i am planning an 8 week cycle of anavar, 40mg ED split am pm.
would this reap better results than a winstrol only cycle? also are the negtive side effects less or more (as it is a 17aa oral) than injecting winny.
the thing with winny is the number it does on the liver and also the chronic joint damage it causes.
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