The Only SANE Way To Burn Fat

[jboldman]

Ah, Dr. M, guess you have not had many arguments with Nelson?

jb

 

[Dr. M]

jb -

I'm just asking him to provide legitimate evidence for what he's saying above regarding permanent shut-down of thyroid function.

If he can give me the paper or book from which he got that statement (or evidence which led him to that conclusion), then I'll do the gentlemanly thing and give him the closest thing I can to a handshake over the boards.

If it turns out that I just haven't found the source of this evidence, then I'll even thank him for bringing it to my attention.

Intellectual debates are conducted in such ways, not arguments.

-M

 

[jboldman]

OK, do not believe in stimulants of any kind, don't want to jack your nervous system around yet you recommend thermorexin that contains yohimbine HCL, Theophylline, Synephrine hcl, green tea, caffeine and who knows what in ZIP since i could not find a list of ingredients on their site. ! Kinda like having your cake and eating it too.

jb

I'll get right to the point.

I don't believe in stimulents of any kind. Besides the fact that I feel like crap on them, they only agitate the nervous system, suppressing the appetite and ironically, forcing your metabolism to get SLOWER.

That's right. Remember at all times, the body is an adaptive mechanism. Try and speed it up, and it will retaliate in an effort to remain homeostasis by slowing down, hoarding fat. That's why I've never liked ephedra. And to all the people who swear by it, all I have to say is this...if it worked so well, why do you still need it? And why isn't everyone lean after years of ephedra use? Nah, it just gets you jacked. If that's what you want, fine. But as a fat loss supplement, it sucks out loud.

I won't even discuss DNP. I'm old school. I want to be strong and healthy. DNP doesn't fit into that plan.

So what's left? Cardio? Dont get me started.

Diet? No shit. But we all know that.

There's only one way to burn more fat than by simply expending more energy than calories and that's by hyping the thyroid. The only problem is, thyroid hormones are like any exogenous therapy in that they are suppressive. Some might argue that the thyroid will rebound much like the HPTA but I disagree. I think the thyroid is more delicate. But it's a moot point anyway since muscle grown from steroids is muscle. It can be maintained. Fat loss from thyroid drug use, can not be maintained. It's a dangerous game for a temporary fix. That's the bitch.

Nope, the only thing to do is to get your own thyroid working at full steam. But get this. There are probably things you're doing right now that are fucking up optimum thyroid function. Here are a few examples.

Cruciferous vegetables; Believe it or not, broccoli contains something called thiourea whih suppresses thyroid function.

Low carb diets: They slow the metabolism and hinder thyroid output.

Peaches: I love them. But they too impair thyroid fuction. Bananas are good.

Melatonin: Lowers body temperature. The thyroid in turn slows down to store fat. (Fat provides heat)

Green tea; This popular fat loss product contains flouride, which stunts T4 output.

Aspartame: Studies in rats showed that aspartame shut down thyroid function permanently.

TOFU: If you eat this shit in the name of health, you're kidding yourself. It's estrogenic and estrogen impairs thyroid function (which is why more women are hypothyroid)

Gugglesterones: Wait a minute, this stuff is sold in thyroid supplements, isn't it? Yeah. but it can also raise estrogen. (No wonder it clears acne)

Forskolin: Another popular thyroid supplement has been shown to exasperate prostate cancer. Fuck this stuff. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Okay, what's good?


Acetyl L Tyrosine: The key nutrient to a faster metabolism. Without it, your thyroid dies.


Kelp: A fave of Arnold and Zane. The old timers fat loss product still works. And iodine deficiency will cause hypothyroidism within days.


Selenium: The most overlooked nutrient in bodybuilding: It's what converts T4 into the fat burning T3. If your body doesn't convert the T4, it's useless.


Olive Leaf. Used for years as an immunity booster, recent studies show it improves thyroid fuction. A strong immune system usually means a strong thyroid. Almost all people with suppressed immunity systems also have suppressed thyroids.


Coconut oil. That's right. Saturated fat. This is supposed to be the worst stuff in the world for you, right? It improves thyroid function. More evidence that the so called experts don't know shit.


Thyroid gland Extract: Some may say it's folklore but that's what they said about desiccated thyroid gland even though it was used successfully for years for the treatment of hypothyroidism.


7 Keto DHEA. This is the shit. Plenty of evidence on this one. Even doctors will recommend NOT taking it if you take thyroid medication because it can raise thyroid output TOO MUCH. (So why don't they lower the dosage and recommend using 7 keto dhea?)
People who were diagnosed with low thyroid got their TSH levels into the normal range with just the use of 7 keto DHEA. This may be the best fat loss product on the market.


Okay, shameless plug coming up so if you
don't want to hear it, stop reading now. But I believe strongly in all these substances and research backs it up -- including my own personal experience. That's why I recommended them for Protein Factory.com's weight loss product ZIP! Honestly, if you're looking for something that will get you jacked, it's not for you. But if you're looking for something that will give focus and clarity and help burn fat on a consistent basis without suppression, there's nothing better. As a matter of fact, the more you use it, the better it is for your thyroid. It's a REAL thermogenic -- one that uses fat for fuel as opposed to raising body temperature through central nervous stimulants.

And BTW, stacking ZIP! with Thermorexin has got to be the most kick-ass fat loss combo EVER. (proceed with caution though)

Don't be a fool and use T3 or DNP or even overdose on stimulants use to gain the fat back once you stop. Eat right. Train hard. And try ZIP! or the ZIP!/T-Rex combo. It works.

 

[Dr. M]

Re: Re: The Only SANE Way To Burn Fat

OK, do not believe in stimulants of any kind, don't want to jack your nervous system around yet you recommend thermorexin that contains yohimbine HCL, Theophylline, Synephrine hcl, green tea, caffeine and who knows what in ZIP since i could not find a list of ingredients on their site. ! Kinda like having your cake and eating it too.

jb

NOW who's arguing?

-M (all this is meant in jest, by the way)

 

[jboldman]

I know I know! I just can't help myself. Maybe we could start an NMA(Nelson Montana Anonymous) to help those of us who cant help themselves kick the arguing with nelson habit! <GRIN>

jb

 

[Dr. M]

HAHAHAHAHA... so true...

Actually, this is the first time I've even said 'boo' to Nelson... the blanket statement about the thyroid shutdown was something I just couldn't let slide without some sort of citation.

I hope he can just post a reference, let me go read it, and then I'll be either on my way or talking about how THAT paper was written by another group of idiots (like the ones I mentioned above) who dealt totally outside the physiological realm.

-M

 

[bigrand]

Well Dr M, im waiting for your opinion on ways to optimize fat burning......i know you have the physiological knowledge.
How about something that tells your brain you are well fed (when in reality your dieting), this way your brain doesnt slow metabolism thinking its starving? Similar to how C75 use increases Malonyl-CoA which floods the brain telling it its full so metabolism can proceed at full force....
Stimulants have stopped working the way they used to, before i could loose lots of weight, now, i take thermorexin and i dont loose a single pound. Its like i have to take the shit just to maintain my weight! I dont eat that much either...

 

[b1ewsw32]

Where's Fonz when you need him? He'd have a field day with this thread
How the hell are we supposed to get any results? We cant have any cruciferous vegetables,which BTW is a late night staple for guys who are competing. Low carb diets are no good, high carb diets are garbage. One paltry can of tuna a day is going to give us mercury poisoning with co-inciding depression.Milk is mostly water and useless carbs defenitely not the milk from yesteryear.Chicken's are force-fed shit and pumped with hormones to make them grow faster.The mad-cow(beef) scare was blown out of proportion.The next thing you'll hear is eggs have some infectious prion that causes Jacob-Creudzfeldt syndrome and our turkey will induce serotonin syndrome with insiduous symtoms of confusion,dyskinesias and inevitable brain meltdown causing death.
I know, we'll just stick to insects,dogs and cats,or is that how sars originated?

I agree with Dr.M you have to take these studies with a grain of salt as sometimes for every supporting study, there's one to cotradict it.
There's no panacea for the dietary,hormonal or supplemental aspects of this sport.My sentiments are everyone should listen,read and learn from other educated/experienced individuals and use ergogenics that have been time tried and proven to be effective for years, or what works best for you and not some fly by night supplement with a few studies backing up it's possible effectiveness??

B32...

 

[Dr. M]

bigrand -

If you check the abstract of this paper above:

Physiol Behav. 2003 Apr;78(4-5):557-62

you'll see that it says 'aspartame has been known previously to increase satiety' (like you mentioned - makes you feel full even if you're not). Instead of eating aspartame, you could try ingesting something which increases levels of CCK, GLP-1, or neuropeptide Y; a number of things will increase the levels of these things without actually filling the stomach, but they're mainly fatty or sugary materials which are contrary to diet efficiency.

Based on the literature I've seen, thioctic acid (R-alpha lipoic acid) and acetyl-L-carnitine are the two most effective (non-stimulatory) fat burners I could recommend.

Go to PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov) and run a literature search for 'lipoic acid' or 'acetyl L carnitine' and you'll see some of the papers on which I'm basing my judgement.

At any rate, the BEST thing you could do is talk to a registered dietitian, who could set you up based on your current and desired body composition and schedule.

Good luck!
-M

 

[Nelson Montana]

Okay, a few things.

I didn't think anyone thought for a moment I was suggesting that taking aspartame would shut down the thyroid. And off course, animal tests are done with massive doses. They can't just put a little Equal in the rats morning coffe and hand around for 3 years waiting to see if he'll develop any bad side effects. Anyone who knows me knows I'm the first guy to advise taking any study with a grain of salt. I just thought it was interesting that it had an effect on the thyroid.

As far as passing on cruciferous vegatables, that's advice anyone diagnosed with a high TSH would get from a doctor. Again, it doesn't mean eating a piece of brocolli is going to kill you. |

The ingredient to ZIP! are on the "Articles" page at the end of the basic supplement descriptions. I believe they may make some alterations and add a touch of syneperine in which case I'd recommend keeping dosages judicious if you plan on miixing ZIP! with another stimulent. Guys used to epherdra, (or the old Dymetadrine 25) would appreciate the kick but a newbie may be a little more "awake" than anticipated.