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The End of Faith

OMEGA said:
you should not blindly believe in anything, rather you should seek the subtle unseen who whispers delicate truths that are almost hidden.

if you heart is clean it will guide you to the truth........


if you are dirty it will not.......
Just think about a few things for a minute ok..
The world is incredibly complex, people as organisms are complicated, natural wonders and phenomena abound...

but for every magnificent sight to see, there are 10 travesties... what about kids born with no limbs, a fly born without sight, natural disasters that kill millions.. is this the work of a merficy god? If we were really created in his image, then why are we so riddled with flaws? Sin? How do you explain those who are born without mental faculty to even grasp this concept!

I'm open to finding a higher truth, however if there really was one true god who wanted all humans to know him, don't you think it would be a little more obvious? What is there to gain by the mystery of it all? Believe me, if Jesus comes back to eart and raises the dead, I'll be the first to believe, you don't have to worry about that.. but until then, there is really NO reason to believe.. you can contrive and create your own reasons, but there really is no logical or rational reason to believe.. and unfortunately logic and reason is what dictacts most of what I do in life, certainly the main decisions I face.
 
Lestat I will have to think about what you said, I have no quick answer

but I can share what I think later
 
OMEGA said:
Lestat I will have to think about what you said, I have no quick answer

but I can share what I think later
i welcome the discussion
 
The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things

Thus, constantly free of desire
One observes its wonders
Constantly filled with desire
One observes its manifestations

These two emerge together but differ in name
The unity is said to be the mystery
Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders





When the world knows beauty as beauty, ugliness arises
When it knows good as good, evil arises

Thus being and non-being produce each other
Difficult and easy bring about each other
Long and short reveal each other
High and low support each other
Music and voice harmonize each other
Front and back follow each other

Therefore the sages:
Manage the work of detached actions
Conduct the teaching of no words

They work with myriad things but do not control
They create but do not possess
They act but do not presume

They succeed but do not dwell on success
It is because they do not dwell on success
That it never goes away
 
There is something formlessly created
Born before Heaven and Earth
So silent! So ethereal!
Independent and changeless
Circulating and ceaseless
It can be regarded as the mother of the world
I do not know its name
Identifying it, I call it "Tao"
Forced to describe it, I call it great
Great means passing
Passing means receding
Receding means returning
Therefore the Tao is great
Heaven is great
Earth is great
The sovereign is also great
There are four greats in the universe
And the sovereign occupies one of them
Humans follow the laws of Earth
Earth follows the laws of Heaven
Heaven follows the laws of Tao
Tao follows the laws of nature

 
Lestat said:
how many of you christians really follow the Bible? If you think so, please read this passage and tell me if you REALLY follow the Bible:


If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretly seduce you, saying, “Let us go and serve other gods,” unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or far away, anywhere throughout the world, you must not consent, you must not listen to him; you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God. . . .(Deuteronomy 13:7–11)
thats old testamen bro.before jesus died on the cross.his blood changes all this.I find it funny you spit out sertan versas in the bible.takeing what you want from it like its a menui.evry part of the bible gose hand in hand.on part brings more meening to another part.the old testamen is a fortelling of things to come in the new testamen.i would think some one smart like you would see all of this.but i gess the bible is right when it says

"i will make the wise things of this word to be like fulishness ,and the fulishness of this world to be wise"
I will frustrat them for there eyes will not see becuase i have placed a shade over them.
the wind blows and you here it but you dont know what it says or were it is going.it is becouse you are not a part of it.what knows a mans mind but his spirit.what knows gods mind but his spirit.therefore it is with the spirit that you will here what god has to say what his mind thinks.but in order to not just here the spirit but understand it you must become a part of it just like the wind.you must be born again into the spirit.

you can come up with all the shit you want.we can argue all day and all night.talk about this passig and that one.people can make there case and i can make mine.but it all comes down to that passig.
you will never understan because you dont realy want to do you lestat.and the people that dont beleave and dont understand dont want to ether.to them it "fulishness".and thats just the way god wants it.why should he share his secrits with some one that dossent want to know him



so that is my quatoin to you.why should god share his secrits with a tottel stranger.
 
Nothing in the world is softer or weaker than water
Yet nothing is better at overcoming the hard and strong
This is because nothing can replace it

That the weak overcomes the strong
And the soft overcomes the hard
Everybody in the world knows
But cannot put into practice

 
Re: Ah shit, here's more fuel to the fire!

samoth said:
Oh! And look what follows next -- another favorite EF debate!



The cosmological argument is an argument for the existence of God. It is also known as the first cause argument for the existence of God , or the prime mover argument.


First cause

Intrinsic to the debate concerning determinism is the issue of first cause. Deism, a philosophy articulated in the seventeenth century, holds that the universe has been deterministic since creation, but ascribes the creation to a metaphysical God or first cause outside of the chain of determinism. God may have begun the process, Deism argues, but God has not influenced its evolution. This perspective illustrates a puzzle underlying any conception of determinism:

Assume: All events have causes, and their causes are all prior events. There is no cycle of events such that an event (possibly indirectly) causes itself.

The picture this gives us is that Event AN is preceded by AN-1, which is preceded by AN-2, and so forth.

Under these assumptions, two possibilities seem clear, and both of them question the validity of the original assumptions:

(1) There is an event A0 prior to which there was no other event that could serve as its cause.
(2) There is no event A0 prior to which there was no other event, which means that we are presented with an infinite series of causally related events, which is itself an event, and yet there is no cause for this infinite series of events.

Under this analysis the original assumption must have something wrong with it. It can be fixed by admitting one exception, a creation event (either the creation of the original event or events, or the creation of the infinite series of events) that is itself not a caused event in the sense of the word "caused" used in the formulation of the original assumption. Some agency, which many systems of thought call God, creates space, time, and the entities found in the universe by means of some process that is analogous to causation but is not causation as we know it. This solution to the original difficulty has led people to question whether there is any reason for there only being one divine quasi-causal act, whether there have not been a number of events that have occurred outside the ordinary sequence of events, events that may be called miracles. The extreme philosophical position in this line of development was held by Leibniz, who held in his monistic philosophy that all seemingly causal interactions between two (or more) entities, A <-> B, are actually interactions mediated by God, A<->God<->B.

Immanuel Kant carried forth this idea of Leibniz in his idea of transcendental relations, and as a result had a profound effect on later philosophical attempts to sort these issues out. His most influential immediate successor, a strong critic whose ideas were yet strongly influenced by Kant, was Edmund Husserl, the developer of the school of philosophy called phenomenology. But the central concern of that school was to elucidate not physics but the grounding of information that physicists and others regard as empirical. In an indirect way, this train of investigation appears to have contributed much to the philosophy of science called logical positivism and particularly to the thought of members of the Vienna Circle, all of which have had much to say, at least indirectly, about ideas of determinism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism#Determinism.2C_quantum_mechanics_and_classical_physics



:cow:

Although he has since tried to propose theories that would rule out a cause, they are fairly uncalculated, admittedly uncertain, and become circular in the context of a discussion relating to the proof/ disproof of an initial cause...

Still, I do find this quote interesting... coming from someone who just may have a grasp on the whole quantum mechanics thing... lol.

"Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe? The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?"
- Stephen W. Hawking, A Brief History of Time: From the Big Bang to Black Holes, Bantam, NY, 1988, p 174.
 
needtogetas said:
thats old testamen bro.before jesus died on the cross.his blood changes all this.I find it funny you spit out sertan versas in the bible.takeing what you want from it like its a menui.evry part of the bible gose hand in hand.on part brings more meening to another part.the old testamen is a fortelling of things to come in the new testamen.i would think some one smart like you would see all of this.but i gess the bible is right when it says

"i will make the wise things of this word to be like fulishness ,and the fulishness of this world to be wise"
I will frustrat them for there eyes will not see becuase i have placed a shade over them.
the wind blows and you here it but you dont know what it says or were it is going.it is becouse you are not a part of it.what knows a mans mind but his spirit.what knows gods mind but his spirit.therefore it is with the spirit that you will here what god has to say what his mind thinks.but in order to not just here the spirit but understand it you must become a part of it just like the wind.you must be born again into the spirit.

you can come up with all the shit you want.we can argue all day and all night.talk about this passig and that one.people can make there case and i can make mine.but it all comes down to that passig.
you will never understan because you dont realy want to do you lestat.and the people that dont beleave and dont understand dont want to ether.to them it "fulishness".and thats just the way god wants it.why should he share his secrits with some one that dossent want to know him



so that is my quatoin to you.why should god share his secrits with a tottel stranger.

Total stranger????? We are all gods children I thought? I went to church, I asked the Lord to be my savior.. I did all that shit.. but guess what, I never had a personal connection with god.. nothing man.. it was all smoke and mirrors.

And I love how Christians try to take what they want from scripture and leave the rest... the verse from deuteronomy is NOT old testament law, its a command given by god that he later says DO NO CHANGE. It has nothing to do with jesus dying on the cross.. it says, if someone comes to you, even your OWN SON, and tries to tell you about other gods... you kill them. Its pretty fucking clear my son.
 
Needtogetas:

I don't know if you have any knowledge about the Inquisition or the Salem witch trials.. both are instances where violence was used against those who believes in other gods... in the case of the salem witch trials, simply being old, infirm, and ugly was your death sentence.
 
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