Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply US-PHARMACIES UGL OZ
Raptor Labs UGFREAK OxygenPharm
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplyUS-PHARMACIES UGL OZUGFREAKRaptor LabsOxygenPharm

the difference between bodybuilders and powerlifters

  • Thread starter Thread starter jeremys
  • Start date Start date
J

jeremys

Guest
1) drugs

2) diet

did anybody see the mountaineer cup on ESPN the other day? you can't tell me you've seen many people with bigger legs, traps, forearms, triceps, etc. only the BIG TIME pro bbs because of reasons stated above.

you may also feel genetics has something to do with it. i think that's bullshit though. tom platz started with small legs and wide hips..120 lb weaklings turned into ed coan, etc.

obviously you can't be a pro at both, as that means you wouldn't reach full potential in either. hell, who am i to say that. it could happen. i'm just saying it's not likely

bodybuilders can definitely benefit from at least a couple strength training phases during the year..hell..most/all of the year would probably be ideal

just something i thought about today..
 
I'd have to agree with most of what is said except the genetics part. Genetics overpower all other factors IMO making it the most important thing to have being a pro BBer
 
i respectfully disagree

genetics determine where you start/ how fast you gain. NOT where you end up
 
vinylgroover said:
Are you saying powerlifters don't use drugs.......if so that's a pretty naive view IMO.
Click to expand...

no no no

just not as many and not as high quantities
 
"Genetics" has become more and more of an excuse mechanism for people to explain their weaknesses.

Genetics or no, any weakness can be overcome.



Joker
 
I'm not saying if you have shitty genetics you still can't overcome yoru weaknesses...I don't know much about powerlifting...but in the pro bodybuilding world I believe genetics is what puts these guys above and beyond....top ten olympia...NONE of them have shitty genetics..
 
alot of powerlifters and alot of pro strongmen use enormous quantities of aas. but i do agree that diet is the primary difference.
 
SeanHolmz said:
I'm not saying if you have shitty genetics you still can't overcome yoru weaknesses...I don't know much about powerlifting...but in the pro bodybuilding world I believe genetics is what puts these guys above and beyond....top ten olympia...NONE of them have shitty genetics..
Click to expand...

I would have to disagree. Not every pro bodybuilder has/had the perfect genetics. Hard work, discipline and yes, drugs helped them overcome thier short-comings.

However, if there is such a thing as "perfect genetics" for any given sport, then like Jeremy said, it won't be as difficult to achieve "Elite" status.


Joker
 
i think that genetics play a major role insofar as it will determine how a person's physique is presented as far as aesthetics are concerned.

Have a look at Flex Wheeler for example......the guy has a very aesthetic shape which took him to the top in bodybuilding......he didn't necessarily have the most muscle, but his shape was very appealing, something whch was totally as a result of genetics (ie physical structure).
 
i kinda see your point but the term 'aesthetic' is very relative. no two people's bodies look the same. some guy's weaknesses are another guy's strengths and vice versa.

and powerforward, i know that SOME pro strength athletes use a lot. but i think even those ones don't use as much as pro bodybuilders.

i dont want this to turn into a gear dispute. just gotta get that out of the way. not trying to start ANYTHING
 
No one has perfect genetics. I never said that. I'm just saying they have better than average genetics which put them above and beyond. I don't think someone with SHITTY genetics will ever compete in the olympia as long as there are people that work just as hard as them with better genetics. It is, IMHO, a bigger factor than drugs... I'm done trying prove my point now. ;(
 
SeanHolmz said:
No one has perfect genetics. I never said that. I'm just saying they have better than average genetics which put them above and beyond. I don't think someone with SHITTY genetics will ever compete in the olympia as long as there are people that work just as hard as them with better genetics. It is, IMHO, a bigger factor than drugs... I'm done trying prove my point now. ;(
Click to expand...

yes, i see your point

how many people have ever tried bodybuilding? the chance of even one of the pros having the best genetics is remote. the guy with the best genetics coud be sitting in a bar right now and has never touched a weight in his life

many people think they have shit for genetics. then they switch up their training, nutrition, or rest or some other factor and something just clicks. it's not really genetics, in my opinion, at least not mostly
 
Let's get all the arguments out of the way, Jeremy.:)


1. Bodybuilders are pretty boys
2. Powerlifters are fat slobs.
3. AAS is bad for you and will kill you.
4. All the muscle will turn to fat when you get older.
5. It's harder to be a powerlifter.
5. It's harder to be a bodybuilder.
5. It's harder to be a strongman.


I'm sure I missed some. Please feel free to add to the list of stupid, go nowhere arguments.:D


Joker
 
JOKER47 said:
Let's get all the arguments out of the way, Jeremy.:)


1. Bodybuilders are pretty boys
2. Powerlifters are fat slobs.
3. AAS is bad for you and will kill you.
4. All the muscle will turn to fat when you get older.
5. It's harder to be a powerlifter.
5. It's harder to be a bodybuilder.
5. It's harder to be a strongman.


I'm sure I missed some. Please feel free to add to the list of stupid, go nowhere arguments.:D


Joker
Click to expand...

haha. i'm laughing but i hope that wasn't implying that this discussion is a go-nowhere argument. that's the exact OPPOSITE of what i'm trying to get going here
 
JOKER47 said:


Not at all. Just trying to keep it from turning into one. It's a great topic for discussion if it can stay that way.:)



Joker
Click to expand...

thats what i was thinking. im sorry, bare with me..it's late :)
 
jeremys said:


haha. i'm laughing but i hope that wasn't implying that this discussion is a go-nowhere argument. that's the exact OPPOSITE of what i'm trying to get going here
Click to expand...

Not at all. Just trying to keep it from turning into one. It's a great topic for discussion if it can stay that way.:)



Joker
 
endpoint said:


i though BB only ate chicken breast with steamed veges
Click to expand...

ronnie-nutrition.jpg
 
I'm a powerlifter, I'm bulking, getting ready for a comp, and I had steak salad for dinner, and I'll have a protein shake or tuna before bed. You don't have to be a fat slob to be a powerlifter, and you don't have to be a weak, pretty boy to be a bodybuilder.


Stereotypes suck.
 
It used to be a lot of the bodybuilders entered powerlifitng competitions in the off season. Bodybuilders trained to be strong then... and the powerlifter lifts were part of bodybuilding training. It's only been in the last 15 to 20 years that we've had weak bodybuilders.
 
People shouldn't be fooled by a bodybuilders diet. These guys are eating anything and everything in the offseason.

A lot of these guys are cleaning up their diets only a few weeks before a show.
 
I will say that with the exception of a few months trying different training methods, my training has always been focused around deadlifts, weighted dips, rows, chins, squats, etc... Always pushing for more weight each workout, and always a low rep range. I am not a powerlifter though, I am a bodybuilder. I feel heavy iron with the basics, and lots of food is the quickest way to becoming big. How many people do you see building big arms with cable curls? Nobody I can think of, yet I have yet to see anyone who could row 300 with small arms. I train at a powerlifting gym, and I am glad I do, it saved me!
 
louden_swain said:
People shouldn't be fooled by a bodybuilders diet. These guys are eating anything and everything in the offseason.

A lot of these guys are cleaning up their diets only a few weeks before a show.
Click to expand...

God Damn right eating is the fun part of training
 
You know the guys with the exceptional genetics?

It's usually the black guys that never lift and eat french fries. Maybe do a couple push ups a week. When they take their shirt off they are ripped all over and fairly large.

You can't really be a fat slob in a bar and have the "perfect" genetics, although you can be a ripped guy in the bar with them lol. Having good genetics, generally means looking damn good and being damn strong before touching a weight IMO.

-sk
 
Argh! People! It's like articifial selection.

Powerlifters have great strength. They may or may not look good; that doesn't matter.

Bodybuilders have pretty bodies. They may or may not be strong; that doesn't matter.

The only similarity is both seek to be as big as possible while staying in their weight classes. In both groups, the biggest tend to be the strongest.

Take wolves and dogs for example. Take all the fastest wolves and breed them. Then take all the small and furry wolves and breed them. The first group becomes the greyhound, the second becomes the shitsu. You can't fault the shitsu for being slow; it wasn't the original goal in creating it!

So let's stop this craziness about powerlifters being fat or bodybuilders being week because it's unfair to both groups, and each probably doesn't really care.
 
casualbb said:
So let's stop this craziness about powerlifters being fat or bodybuilders being week because it's unfair to both groups, and each probably doesn't really care.
Click to expand...

that was the original point of the thread
 
jeremys said:
genetics determine where you start/ how fast you gain. NOT where you end up
Click to expand...

Oh come on. You're telling me every single 6'0" ectomorph in the world can be 260 lbs at a low bodyfat without drugs? Because there are mesomorphs who can do that.
 
Debaser said:


Oh come on. You're telling me every single 6'0" ectomorph in the world can be 260 lbs at a low bodyfat without drugs? Because there are mesomorphs who can do that.
Click to expand...

the people with the best genetics won't make it to their potential witout hard work

the people with the worst genetics can and do make it past what everybody things their 'limit' is because they bust their ass. we've seen it happen many times.

and i never said anything about not using drugs. that's a different part of the discussion

i like to think that there are no limits. the people that have this mentality make it farther than everybody else, and also farther than what their percieved 'limit' is

fuck limits
 
i like to think that there are no limits
Click to expand...

That may help you stay motivated, but there certainly are limits. People who are 225lbs+, ripped, and natural are NOT a dime a dozen.

The heaviest of the old-school bodybuilders was a ripped 225, back before drugs were used. That's the biggest it got! Is it because we train a lot better? Hell no. Most of the routines the pros are on now are complete crap, high volume and they bought into the intensity myth. They just do copious amounts of drugs, to which not enough credit is given.
 
louden_swain said:
bodybuilders - aesthetics, shape, and size
powerlifters - strength and increasing numbers

There's the difference!
Click to expand...

yes, that's the obvious difference. i was talking about appearance
 
casualbb said:
Most of the routines the pros are on now are complete crap, high volume and they bought into the intensity myth. They just do copious amounts of drugs, to which not enough credit is given.
Click to expand...

Bro, i'd have to disagree that their routines are crap. You forget these guys have trained for a long time and have found something that works for them.

Doing high volume while on the amounts of gear they are on is more than understandable. If you do take AAS in the future you will see how much they indead aid in your recovery.

I also believe isolation movements become very important when you are at the stage of ronnie coleman's body development.

JMHO.

-sk
 
You bring up very true points Sk, very true indeed. When on a high dose of test for example, you can feel ready to work the same bodypart within a day! Also the part about isolation becomes all the more true as well. You simply cant ignore minor things like the complete developement of the rear, and side delts, when at a top level.

Of course to build up enough mass to be at such a level, it's best to just focus on the compounds, and food. But like Sk said, someone who is a top level national bb, or pro, HAS to throw in 'weak' point training, and isolation work.

I also feel most pro's know how to train their bodies. You have some who are lazy, and never live up to their full potential (Flex, and Paul D. come to mind), then you have the hard workers. Ronnie, Arnold, Dorian, Mentzer. All different ways of training, but each method worked for them perfectly. Would I have told Dorian, or Arnold that they could have trained better? Would I have said "Hey Arnold, way too many sets for your biceps pal!" or "Hey, Dorian, why don't you train in a more traditional HIT way, instead of a 5 or 6 day a week split." HELL NO! Not that they would have listened!

For the rest of us however, it's best to learn what works best for you. This means reading up on programs that can help the average person pack on the lbs. Stuff by Hardgainer, DC, HST, Realgains, etc. One program might work better for you, and one may not work at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sk*
Well it's the traditional argument of the ends justify the means. Now I'm gonna bring up another traditional argument used by HIT low volume-ites: I can push a ball across a field with my nose and it'll still get there, but I'd really rather carry it.
 
casualbb said:
Well it's the traditional argument of the ends justify the means. Now I'm gonna bring up another traditional argument used by HIT low volume-ites: I can push a ball across a field with my nose and it'll still get there, but I'd really rather carry it.
Click to expand...

That's a horrible analogy. Genetics and doing it for a long time aren't the only factors in making Ronnie Coleman the mr. olympia ...

You have to realize bro, when you get to the stages of competing in mr. olympia EVERY little detail matters. This means your genetics, training, diet, rest, drugs, stress level, etc have to be just perfect or else you will just fail. This guys would take every little advantage they can get to outdo their opponents. Do you really think they haven't heard of similar training methods like HST? Not only they have heard it but they have most likely tried it.

Like I said before, the amounts of drugs these guys take they can recover at levels so great that they would need to workout 3times a day to incorporate HST techniques. Do you see what I am saying? Frequency would need to be judged on an hourly basis ...

Sometimes training in higher volume becomes more efficient with the time they are given to train, because their recovery becomes godly.

These guys aren't idiots and they aren't newbies. They have taken many training courses, have had personal trainors, and have tried any methods they have thought of to find what works for them the best.

-sk
 
You're underestimating the power of steroids to make up for a bad routine. Maybe they've heard of HST but I doubt they've tried it. Why not? As champions, they subscribe to the same argument you do: they must have been doing something right. Yes they did, and it came in a little bottle. The reason none of them tried it is because you can take steroids, go on a once/week ultra-volume split and still gain rapidly. They then think that they've found the fastest way to train (tm)! Sign on with muscletech and start cashing in.

I'd trust a pro for advice on diet, steroids, or pre-show preparation. But not training.
 
I think it's closer to an optimal hypertrophy program than anything else out there.

On un unrelated note, take mike mentzer. He built an impressive body using drugs while doing heavy duty, which is generally accepted as an ineffective program.

The fact that any program will produce some gains (esp when coupled with steroids) leads people to believe a lot of fictitious information.
 
Fred Hatfeild seems to hate Arthur Jones, and the Nautilus machines. If you ever go to one of his seminars, or watch one of his tapes, he makes sure to always bring something up about that. "He stole the idea for those machines from germans who made them 10 thousand years ago, and Arthur Jones is Satan himself" Or something like that :P

As for the other topic, I love HST. I think it's a wonderful hypertrophy program, but to say, or imply some pro's would be 'better off' if they used different training, is off the wall! They are pro's for a reason, and NO it is not just steroids, and genetics. We are talking guys who have unheard of dedication, drive, and determination, and guys who have busted their balls for years with the heavy weights. These guys know what works for them, period. Do I think someone like Ronnie would change the way he trains? No. Even if he would, I don't think it would be a wise move. He found what works best for him, and he should stick with it! This is a point that Iron Addict, and I believe Dante have mentioned before. Once you find what works for you, stick with it.
 
Wow, this thread has managed to covered nearly all the most annoying arguments.

-bodybuilders vs powerlifters
-genetics, excuse or limitation
-steroids, and pros' results
-High vs Low volume
-my routine is better than your routine
:o


btw casual, you give too much credit to AAS. They aren't that powerful. They're simply another tool.
 
I always thought genetics were overrated. People will always make excuses why they can't do this or that. . .success always depends on hard work and determination.

Pro bodybuilders don't have best genetics out of everyone. . they are the ones who have devoted their time towards training and formulating an eating plan.

As far as AS is concerned. . .just another tool that helps process protein synthesis.
 
You are right, you shouldn't take advice from ronnie coleman on lifting because it will most likely overtrain you. But because of his genetics, gear, and other factors he is able to do the types of workouts he does.

HST or any other training method is based on a few principles, but these principles aren't necessarily the end to all principles. These are just a few things that people have accounted into their trainings, and with time they will improve ...

There really is no such thing as an "ideal" training method because the concept of "ideal" is so shady and user defined.

BTW, you don't just take steroids one day and become big the next day.

-sk
 
louden_swain said:
Remember folks. . .Ronnie Coleman has been training for 22 years.
Click to expand...

Exactly! How can I take someone seriously who claims he does stupid workouts after that many years of training?

And it isn't just ronnie, all the pros have been training for a long time ...

-sk
 
To say the Pros don't know training is fucking stupid. Their routine may not work for you but they have it down to a SCIENCE as to what works for them. BTW, a lot pros also have a trainer, charles glas, for example, and to say he doesn't know training also puts you in the wrong.
 
SeanHolmz said:
To say the Pros don't know training is fucking stupid. Their routine may not work for you but they have it down to a SCIENCE as to what works for them. BTW, a lot pros also have a trainer, charles glas, for example, and to say he doesn't know training also puts you in the wrong.
Click to expand...

Exactly! It's their job to know how to train, no shit they have excelled at it.

-sk
 
Well let me pose another question then. In all these muscle mags, you see "so-and-so's leg routine, guaranteed to put inches on your quads!" Tons of regular joes do the exercise and gain nothing. Now assuming that the magazine isn't lying about the routine...

Is a routine really "good" if it only works for one individual? I don't think so. Sure they can add volume if they're juicing (more on that in a sec), but the basic fundamentals should be applicable to anybody. As for guys who have trainers, good for them. I'm not saying trainers don't know how to train for growth, although some don't. I'd want to see each guy's credentials before I trusted him.
 
As to steroids, they're a helluva lot more than just a little boost in protein synthesis. I mean, shit, CREATINE is just a lil boost in protein synthesis. Steroids will do the following:

* Enhanced growth factor activity (e.g. GH, IGF-1, etc.)
* Enhanced activation of myogenic stem cells (i.e. satellite cells)
* Enhanced myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio)
* Enhanced protein synthesis
* Enhanced new myofiber formation

It jacks up every single step in the muscle-building process. Enhanced new fiber formation and accelerated growth in existing fibers. And these effects, unlike creatine, are DOSE-DEPENDANT. Not growing fast enough? No problem, take another 500 mg a week.

For anyone who downplays the role of steroids, take a look at the anabolic board. If they're just a small tool in the bodybuilder's arsenal, why is 90% of the anabolic board psychologically addicted to their use? Some guy will go on and say "I kept 10 pounds in an 8-week cycle!" And other guys will say "okay, good for you." Here on training, if someone gains near 10 pounds of muscle in 8 weeks, we karma him til his ass is green. There, 10 pounds? Nuttin' special.

Like I said, before bodybuilding discovered steroids, the top pros were under 230. That's not a coincidence.
 
I'm almost done rambling, I promise.

One of the pervading mentality on this boards is "everybody is an individual! You have to experiment to see what kind of routine will work for you." That's true, but NOT NEARLY to the extent that most people believe.

Each person is NOT a completely new system to be considered, with a grab-bag of techniques to be tried. The same principles of growth apply to everybody.

We're all homo sapiens. The way each person works is 99.9999% similar to the next. If it weren't this way, there would be no field of medicine, because how would you know which drug to prescribe, which tests to conduct, what surgery to approve?

The science of strength training finally took hold with programs such as WSB and others. It's time for the science of growth to finally penetrate the world of bodybuilding and give us real-world gains on par with those made in the lab.
 
casualbb said:
As to steroids, they're a helluva lot more than just a little boost in protein synthesis. I mean, shit, CREATINE is just a lil boost in protein synthesis.You're comparing the mechanisms of anabolics to those of creatine? Steroids will do the following:

* Enhanced growth factor activity (e.g. GH, IGF-1, etc.)
* Enhanced activation of myogenic stem cells (i.e. satellite cells)
* Enhanced myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to cytoplasmic ratio)
* Enhanced protein synthesis
* Enhanced new myofiber formation
And these things cause massive muscles? Just add gear and *poof* instant-pro! ....uh, nope
It jacks up every single step in the muscle-building process. Enhanced new fiber formation and accelerated growth in existing fibers. And these effects, unlike creatine, are DOSE-DEPENDANT. Not growing fast enough? No problem, take another 500 mg a week.BS. You're a good bro around here, so forgive me if I'm blunt, but it sounds like you have very little knoweldge about anabolics bro. You can't argue a subject you have no knowledge of, it makes you look silly.

For anyone who downplays the role of steroids, take a look at the anabolic board. If they're just a small tool in the bodybuilder's arsenal, why is 90% of the anabolic board psychologically addicted to their use? I've done three solid cycles in the past. I haven't touched them for over 2 years now. Am I shaking violently and drooling over a picture of test? Nope, I could give a fuck. I'll probably do another, but not until I need to. I busted my ass naturally and only considered using gear when I hit a wall. I was chasing a martial arts goal and wanted to grow at the same time....can you do that? I sure couldn't. Right now I'm not fighting anymore, so I'm not faced with a shit load of cardio and potential overtraining. So, I can focus on the gym and grow naturally just fine. Some guy will go on and say "I kept 10 pounds in an 8-week cycle!" And other guys will say "okay, good for you." Here on training, if someone gains near 10 pounds of muscle in 8 weeks, we karma him til his ass is green. There, 10 pounds? Nuttin' special.And?

Like I said, before bodybuilding discovered steroids, the top pros were under 230. That's not a coincidence.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Thaibox said:


btw casual, you give too much credit to AAS. They aren't that powerful. They're simply another tool.
Click to expand...

Probably the understatement of the year.

i've seen steroids put muscle on a broomstick.
 
louden_swain said:
Folks. . .steroids aren't magic.

If you have a shitty diet, shitty training, and lifestyle. . .you will gain nothing.
Click to expand...

No, you will gain something.

If you have the above with no steroids, that is when you will gain nothing.

I have seen it time and time again.
 
You're right, you'll have something.

Then you'll stop the gear and be back to a scrawny turd.


Gear does not put quality muscle onto a body unless proper training conditions are present. If they aren't present, the gains are water, tits, and any true muscle gains are negligable and temporary.
 
No one said that gear without training will automatically put muscle on you.

To say that steroids is not a magic pill is just ridicilous. It allows the person to push themselves to new horizons as opposed to a natural person.
 
You're comparing the mechanisms of anabolics to those of creatine?
Click to expand...

Only in reponse to louden's claim that (paraphrase) "steroids are just a tool...they raise protein synthesis." Well, yeah. But so does creatine. I only brought it up to show how much more steroids does for you than mere protein synthesis by comparing its effects to creatine, which I'm sure we've all used at some point.

And these things cause massive muscles?
Click to expand...
Yep. It not only greatly enhances growth, but the infusion of extra testosterone allows the long-term support of muscle far above the body's genetic limit.

Just add gear and *poof* instant-pro! ....uh, nope
Click to expand...
Well no, you have to have the body type for that. But no matter what stage you're at (unless you're already pumping 1g of test/week) starting or raising a test dose will grow your muscles far and above what you'd normally expect.

I've done three solid cycles in the past. I haven't touched them for over 2 years now. Am I shaking violently and drooling over a picture of test?
Click to expand...
Good for you then, you have self-control. But you're just an anecdote. Go on the anabolic board sometime. 90% of the posts are "how's this cycle look?" or "I'm having this steroid-related issue. How to address?" I mean jeez, lots of those guys need roids just to cut up for the summer. You can't say it's not psychologically addictive.
 
revexrevex said:


To say that steroids is not a magic pill is just ridicilous. It allows the person to push themselves to new horizons as opposed to a natural person.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's ridiculous and i get bored of arguing the point with steroid users who downplay their significance.

If they are not a magic pill and the benefits are not so pronounced, then why the hell do half the people on these boards spend half their pay packet on the stuff and are willing to risk possible heath consequences..............all that for half an inch of muscle?......yeah right.
 
casualbb said:
Well let me pose another question then. In all these muscle mags, you see "so-and-so's leg routine, guaranteed to put inches on your quads!" Tons of regular joes do the exercise and gain nothing. Now assuming that the magazine isn't lying about the routine...

Is a routine really "good" if it only works for one individual? I don't think so. Sure they can add volume if they're juicing (more on that in a sec), but the basic fundamentals should be applicable to anybody. As for guys who have trainers, good for them. I'm not saying trainers don't know how to train for growth, although some don't. I'd want to see each guy's credentials before I trusted him.
Click to expand...

1) Those magazines also tell you to buy bug-juice as it is guaranteed to make you big.

2) Noone ever talked about efficient routines for everyone, the point was for themselves. You were bashing the way they do things and not the routine for overall people.

-sk
 
casualbb said:
I'm almost done rambling, I promise.

One of the pervading mentality on this boards is "everybody is an individual! You have to experiment to see what kind of routine will work for you." That's true, but NOT NEARLY to the extent that most people believe.

Each person is NOT a completely new system to be considered, with a grab-bag of techniques to be tried. The same principles of growth apply to everybody.

We're all homo sapiens. The way each person works is 99.9999% similar to the next. If it weren't this way, there would be no field of medicine, because how would you know which drug to prescribe, which tests to conduct, what surgery to approve?

The science of strength training finally took hold with programs such as WSB and others. It's time for the science of growth to finally penetrate the world of bodybuilding and give us real-world gains on par with those made in the lab.
Click to expand...

True, but IMO you need different types of routines at different stages of your lifting carrear.

Do you honestly think ronnie would grow if he did whatever you do?

-sk
 
BTW, AAS won't do much if you don't know how to train or eat. However, they will help you pack on a good amount of muscle and strength if you know what you are doing.

-sk
 
sk* said:
BTW, AAS won't do much if you don't know how to train or eat. However, they will help you pack on a good amount of muscle and strength if you know what you are doing.

-sk
Click to expand...

Exactly,

And thats why people who have never used them should keep their mouths shut. What you read or what you see does not make up for actual experience.
 
Oh yea, about the add 500mg comment to grow more:

Ever hear of diminishing returns? The body can only handle a certain amounts of steroids before it goes to waste.

-sk
 
louden_swain said:


Exactly,

And thats why people who have never used them should keep their mouths shut. What you read or what you see does not make up for actual experience.
Click to expand...

Yea, it's getting a bit riddiculous. My buddy actually thought you take steroids and, literally, the next day you become big. The media has screwed up peoples' perceptions a good bit.

-sk
 
BTW, AAS won't do much if you don't know how to train or eat.
Click to expand...

You're 1 for 2, buddy. You do have to eat to grow regardless of what you're injecting. But steroids do make up for ineffective training. I already invoked this example once, but Mentzer got huge doing heavy duty which as a program is just terrible. It's a testament to his drugs.

Go on the anabolic board. What could be more anabolic than exercise? But routines are NEVER MENTIONED. Why? Cause when you're juicing it really doesn't matter. All you have to do is lift something, anything, at least once a week and you'll explode. Don't believe me? Think back to puberty. You probably put on muscle from sitting on your ass, I know I did. Why? Hormones are pretty damn powerful.
 
casualbb said:

Go on the anabolic board. What could be more anabolic than exercise? But routines are NEVER MENTIONED. Why?

Because its the anabolic board. . .not the training board.


Cause when you're juicing it really doesn't matter.

Again, a statement like this cannot be made unless you are speaking from personal experience. Depending on the type of program that you follow, you can still overtrain when on AS.

All you have to do is lift something, anything, at least once a week and you'll explode.

Again, a statement like this cannot be made unless you are speaking from personal experience. Everyone has a unique body chemistry.
[/B]
Click to expand...
 
casualbb said:


You're 1 for 2, buddy. You do have to eat to grow regardless of what you're injecting. But steroids do make up for ineffective training. I already invoked this example once, but Mentzer got huge doing heavy duty which as a program is just terrible. It's a testament to his drugs.

Go on the anabolic board. What could be more anabolic than exercise? But routines are NEVER MENTIONED. Why? Cause when you're juicing it really doesn't matter. All you have to do is lift something, anything, at least once a week and you'll explode. Don't believe me? Think back to puberty. You probably put on muscle from sitting on your ass, I know I did. Why? Hormones are pretty damn powerful.
Click to expand...

Steroids may make up for innefective training, but how much?

You aren't gonna gain 20lbs in 2months doing only curls ...

BTW routines generally aren't mentioned there because it isn't a training board and most of the people ther have been lifting for a long time. They are set with their training ...

-sk
 
casualbb said:

Cause when you're juicing it really doesn't matter. All you have to do is lift something, anything, at least once a week and you'll explode.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, this is utter crap. Until you have tried it and seen first hand, please do not make such blatant comments.


.02,
Joker
 
oh.......... im sorry i stumbled on to this thread by accident........ my appologies, i will go to one where a point, or a solution, can actually be reached. bye bye

X
 
Casualbb may not be entirely correct, but steroids CAN make up for inadequate training, or enhance adequate training further. This is not some half ass bullshit, all the gym have these cable crossover, 25 set dumbell curlers on test who explode to a point where a natural trainer would never be able to reach. Steroids ARE the magic pill, provided there is sufficient training and diet. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial.
 
revexrevex said:
Steroids ARE the magic pill, provided there is sufficient training and diet. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial.
Click to expand...

Another foolish statement. . .I will say this for the 10th time. . .no one has the right to make statements like this if they have never used. Where is the credibility behind this without personal experience?

There isn't. . .

People who believe that steroids are indeed magic are victims of the media and are willing to subject themselves to the bullshit claims that countless pieces of literature try to push on the public.

Please. . for those who have never used. . it is better to keep silent.
 
My opinions are coming from observations of very close friends. Steroids CAN (not WILL) make up for bad training and diet. It is dependant on the invidual though. And louden you are a natural as well, how do you know what is wrong and what is right lol
 
Casual I agree but not with the example you gave. People, steroids do make up for bad training routines. Those people that are huge doing 25 sets for their chest? 95% of natural trainees couldn't get away with that. But Mentzer is not a good example. Heavy duty may not be the absolute fastest way to gain muscle, but it definitately works. Most natural trainees would gain on this program as opposed to a volume routine. Heavy Duty isn't very dissimilar from HIT (hell that's where HIT came from) and I've seen HIT make a lot of regular people muscular.

Let me pose this question to everyone:

How many large, natural trainees with average genetics do you see doing a traditional volume 4-5 day split? I have yet to see one. All of the huge natural guys I've seen or talk to do some variant of HIT, DC, or a powerlifting type routine. Simply because these programs allow one to consistantly progress and achieve great levels of strength, and eventually great levels of size along with it. I'm sure HST is the same way but it hasn't been around for a long time yet.
 
There are some natural guys who worked out for long long time on traditional volume routine and are very big. Time, steroids and genetics CAN (not WILL) make up for bad training.
 
revexrevex said:
There are some natural guys who worked out for long long time on traditional volume routine and are very big. Time, steroids and genetics CAN (not WILL) make up for bad training.
Click to expand...

It will??

Please talk about your vast experience. . .
 
I said it CAN not WILL

It is my opinion. After all this is an opinion based board.

The only vast experience I have is communication with hundred of lifters both in real life and on internet.
 
revexrevex said:
I said it CAN not WILL

It is my opinion. After all this is an opinion based board.

The only vast experience I have is communication with hundred of lifters both in real life and on internet.
Click to expand...

Here we have it folks. . . no credible evidence, and this poster has demonstrated the lack of knowledge, experience, and has failed to post legitimate sources of information that say anything about AS making up for poor training, diet, and rest.

Please stop trying to push this. . .

If this is your opinion. . .I will certainly not consider it.
 
Can I just add that steroids won't do shit w/out nothing. Protein will always be the catalyst.

Be smart with your diet and training first.
 
Louden, you condemn rev for his opinion, you "will certainly not consider it," because he hasn't used. Well neither have you. What makes yours more valid?

Obviously this pissed off people:
Cause when you're juicing it really doesn't matter. All you have to do is lift something, anything, at least once a week and you'll explode.
Click to expand...

Yet nobody wanted to address this:
Don't believe me? Think back to puberty. You probably put on muscle from sitting on your ass, I know I did. Why? Hormones are pretty damn powerful.
Click to expand...

Why does the average man vastly overpowers the average woman in strength and size yet does not lift weights? TESTOSTERONE. Thank you.
 
"Yet nobody wanted to address this:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't believe me? Think back to puberty. You probably put on muscle from sitting on your ass, I know I did. Why? Hormones are pretty damn powerful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Why does the average man vastly overpowers the average woman in strength and size yet does not lift weights? TESTOSTERONE. Thank you."

I did address it, diminishing returns. You keep adding 500mg per cycle and very soon you will pass the 2g mark. Mostly everyone will tell you the androgen receptor gets saturated at this point and the gains stop to progress. Going above this mark is very similar to an asymptote imo, get what I am saying? It might still provide extra gains, but nothing spectacular.

BTW, casual you avoided my responce before the steroid issue came up. To claim the top pros don't know how to train is like saying a fat man doesn't know how to eat. :rolleyes:

-sk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Noah Wixx
Approved Log Domestic Supply Beligas Pharmaqo - Test Winstrol Anavar masteron bpc Cutting Cycle Log
2 3 4
Replies
366
Views
44K
RoySimpson
RoySimpson
FishyAnchovy
Approved Log My Orals-Only Pre-Cycle LOG
Replies
21
Views
5K
MUSTANG_18
MUSTANG_18
Richardbrown
Napsgear : 10 SUPERIOR ALTERNATIVES TO SISSY SQUATS
Replies
13
Views
4K
Tiger Salman Khan
Tiger Salman Khan
Richardbrown
Napsgear : 5 Exercises That Have Stood the Test of Time
Replies
15
Views
4K
Tazz
Tazz
Richardbrown
Tips for a Natty Bulk
Replies
6
Views
2K
RoySimpson
RoySimpson
Top Bottom