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The 1/3,1/3,1/3 diet is the BEST...You SHOULD ALL USE IT!

NJstacked

Elite Mentor
Platinum
Ok, as I have said in the past, this diet is sick it is the best one out there...I have worked with this diet and teach it to everyone who needs a great diet to build muscle and cut the fat....I carry around a piece of paper with me, noting the fat,carbs and protein I eat thoughout the day....

Why this diet is the best?

1. No cravings
2. Decrease body fat while building strength.
3. High Energy levels
4. Variety of foods
5. Everyday is like a cheat day!

How it works?

Find your maitenance calories or multiply body weight x 12....

so a 200lb person would need 2,400 calories per day...to lose a little weight, but to lose more drop 200 calories or to gain lean muscle increase by 200 calories....

NExt didvide your calories by 33.3%

So, that is 800 calories of Fat, Carbs and Prot...a day.....

this turns out to be roughly....

200 grams Protein
200 grams Carbs
85 grams Fat
============

Now, just know what you eat and mark it down throughout the day...fuck worrying about brown rice...eat the white and mark it down...eat mayo or non fat mayo either way mark it down....have real bacon or pizza or candy, just know what you eat and mark it down.....Obviously i take in high quality protein and fats, but If I want Mayo I have it or if I want pizza I eat it....My staples are peanut butter and graham crackers...If i want carbs at night I dont eat them all day until night time.....However you do it, you will see this is the BEST way to to eat and bodybuild.....

Hope this Helps,
NJstacked
 
P.S....I am always pumped up....on this diet unlike low carb diets...Also, I am never bloated......I am running T-200 Fina and Winny on this diet right now and the results are sick! But it is even better diet when I am not on gear....It works so well!
 
If you are trying to put on mass especially if you are on gear 2600 cals for a 200lbs person is far too low. More like 3500-4000 cals would be sufficient, also 200g of protein is a little on the low side I would reccomend 300-350g protein per day. You might get some fairly decent gains from that but I would reccomend upping the protein and cals. Try supplementing with some protein shakes too, good luck to ya.
 
I have to say that the diet that you think is sick is an isocaloric diet with a 33-33-33 split.I wouldn't go as far to say that it is the best diet going as different diets have differnet pesponses for differnet people.I would advise people to try different diets to see what works best also taking into account the old addage of a healthy well balanced diet which is much easier achieved with a 33-33-33 or 40-30-30 split.
 
Whatever...It is such a crock of shit that you need tons and tons of protein...Bro..I talk to so many people the biggest most cut people at the clubs i go to and they all say the same shit....Unless you are 300lbs off season on 2migs of test a week, you dont need that much protein.....or calories.....I would love to compare pics with you slobs saying you need 4,000 calories a day.....Keep dreaming pal....Ducahine was a God and he is the one who invented this.......

So, if you want to not eat carbs and lose muscle while losing a little fat, I would do the Keto thing, you will be miserable....but have fun.....

Do the high protein thing...If you are a follower and believe what the ads in Flex tell you to eat.......

Hey I hope someone trys this and learns to love it and get the results that i have attained.....
 
"no way can you grow as an adult man on 200g protein a day" is only true IF THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CARBS/CALORIES IN THEIR DIET. However with adequate carbs and total calories, 200g protein is adequate for even an adult male who is not dieting. Higher protein diets can be helpful for people trying to cut fat without muscle loss.
 
Diamond...How about we compare pics so I can shut your mounth about protein consumption...The difference is I will grow lean muscle and you will put on slabs of fat....Seriously that is all it comes down to....
 
okay so in my case

160 x 12 =1920

than take 1920 divie by 33.3
i get 57.65

now what??
take 57.65 and multiply by carb cals,protein cals,fat cals 4/4/9???
 
okay so in my case

160 x 12 =1920

than take 1920 divie by 33.3
i get 57.65

now what??
take 57.65 and multiply by carb cals,protein cals,fat cals 4/4/9???


Hello D00fy

Weight x12 = 1920

If your on a 33/33/33 diet then you will take the Cal's

1920 x .33 = 633.6

633.6 div by 4 = 158.4 protein
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1920 x .33 = 633.6

633.6 div 4 = 158.4 Carb's

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1920 x .33 = 633.6

633.6 div 9 = 70.4 Fat

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps you out
:)
 
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Hey this is gonna look stupid, but I'm havin trouble with how to do this... I'm 170 lbs right now and I wanna add a little muscle and shred lots o fat... 170 *12=2040 Now I'm supposed to divide that by 33.3% and then split it up how? Thanx in advance to whoever can help my sad ass.. Damn math.
 
170 * 12 = 2040cals a day


2040 / 3 = 680 cals.

so you need 680 cals worth of carbs,protein and fat.

4 cals / gram for carbs & protein, 9 for fat.

170g of carbs
170g of protein
76g of fat
 
Hey Thanks, freshr1, One more thing though, do i switch my numbers as I lose fat if my weight does drop or do I always stick to these numbers?
 
After you have lost a serious 8-10 lbs evaluate how you look and then drop them...if you want to lose more...
 
Oh...also subtract 200 calories from your maitenance to lose the weight the body weight x 12 is just maitenance.....calories
 
question

ok so fine, for me 230 pounds = 2560 calories so:
213 protein
213 carbs
95 grams fat.
ok but what happens when you lift, don't you need to pump sugars back into your muscles? i'll be starting my leaning up this sunday with weeks 1-10: 600mgs test
2-9: 75mgs fina eod
2-9 50mgs winny ed
plus arimidex throughought plus 30 days afterwards plus 3 weeks of clomid. Now i know fina will make me strong as an ox, but don't i still always need to consume majority of carbs after i lift?
 
Hey thanks I've always done low carb. I'm going to try this out. It is about 50 grams carbs more then I'm used to and 60 grams less protien and about 20grams more fat. 54 grams of fat seems pretty high for a girl but I guess if I take it mainly from things like hempseed oil I shoould be ok. Thanks again with the carbs being moderate it should be a pretty easy diet to follow.
 
Venus...I have put a lot of women on this and they have responded really well....except they never eat all the fat because they are scared of it....dont be afraid, it is necessary!!! Peanut Butter is great along with the fat in cheese.....Good luck, just remember to lower the calories to lose the weight....peace
 
I wouldn't go saying x12 is maintenance to quickly.

I weigh around 183 and if you multiply that by 12, that would mean I would need 2196 calories per day to maintain.

I know for a fact that I actually need more like 3000 calories / day to maintain my weight.
I lost 2lbs last week on 2500 cal / day. And 1.5lbs the week before on 2600.

I also wouldn't go as far as to say an isocaloric diet is hands down the best for everyone.
A 35/45/20 or 35/50/15 diet works better for me when trying to cut up and add some strength at the same time.
And if I was bulking, I'd go with 40/40/20.
 
yeah it does depend on how many extra cals you burn a day doing other psyhical activities ie weight training cardio Heres a good formula that you can custumize to your own needs and then subtract the cals from the total to lose weight and follow his 1/3/1/3/1/3 diet



This is for WOMEN...(the formula for men is different)

655 + [4.36 x weight] + [4.32 x height in inches] - [4.7 x age] = BMR
655 + [__________] + [__________] - [______] = _____

Formula for MEN:

66 + [6.22 x weight] + [12.7 x height in inches] - [6.8 x age] = BMR
66 + [___________] + [__________] - [_______] = _____

Now calculate your activity level using your BMR.

_______ (BMR) x ______(activity rating/see below) = _______total calories a day

activity rating:
1.3 lightly active (normal everyday activities)
1.4 moderately active (exercise 3 to 4 times a week)
1.6 very active (exercise more than 4 times a week)
1.8 extremely active (exercise 6 to 7 times a week for more than an hour in duration)
 
NJstacked

I have to say I believe you brought up a good point. Eating that way will satisfy you, stablize blood sugar and allow you to eat food you like. That is the diet I usually follow.... I try to keep my carbs and protein ratios the same... Just basic health eating...

I always knew that high protein diets are not needed. All I remeber was the Designer protein ads saying, "Studies say athletes need 3g per lb of bodyweight" Or some jibberish....

I think eatin like this isocaloric diet makes it easier for people to eat. Like who can eat 50-100 grams of protein per meal? 2 large chicken breast, plain potato???? Id rather have a small steak, potato, a little butter... yum! While getting leaner cause calories are under control....


Now... my other idea that maybe we would agree on... if one is trying to get leaner I would think of instead of lowering calories... one should keep the same but do more exercise... up training to 5 days per week... if you dont get leaner, start 20min of cardio...2-5 days per week... I feel we all lose muscle when we lower our calories. Our metabolism slows and everything suck cause your hungry.
 
Good idea...Mohwak, however it is my philospohy hatyou do one or the other cardio or diet....If I was doing cardio, i would up the calories and eat more food....or just do cardio and not go into a deficit....you know...what works best, when I do cardio, i feel I am not as pumped as I am when i dont do it....Good luck...and yes, i eat Pizza often...becasue I can!
 
I'd rather do cardio then diet! But Im training 5 days per week right now,,,, I will start 20 min of cardio 3x per week and see what happenes.
 
would this diet work for someone who stil needs to drop about 50 -60 lbs i have herd and read that this only is good for folks who need to loose a little weight or find a maintiance diet, if this diet would work for me i would love it since my schedual is so fucked!!! up at 5:30 back at 9:30 in the gym from 10-1200 back to work at 1 home at 5:30 class by six -10:30 sure make life easier on me if i could stop by and maybe grab a tuna sub at tsubway or something or by the deli counter at the butcher shop at the kroger
 
Just lower you calories alittle and do more exercise. This isnt exactly brain surgery...
 
as long as you adhere to the 33% equation....make sure its from ood sources.
 
This all sounds great if you want a steady diet, but its a slower process than doing bulking and cutting cycles. Its already been proven that you can't lose fat and gain tons of muscle at the same time (unless you are on gear). This diet would give you steady gains while not slabbing on the fat, but it's not a miracle make over program. I did this kind of diet for 2 weeks and the results were ok, I stayed at my same weight while growing a few cms. On the other hand I can do a bulking cycles and gain alot more, the only problem is you have to cut later - usually a 1-3 month period of little or not gains, which kind of evens out the gains from the 33/33/33 diet opposed to Bulking/Cutting diet, but with bulking/cutting you will still get quite a few more lbs of lbm - its just a higher price to pay for it.

Just my $0.02 - no flames please!
 
...

That is true....

But Im not a competitive bodybuilder. I dont want to get overly fat during the winter and cut up during the summer, maybe losing muscle while Im at it.

Im a recreation lifter. I want to look good all the time.

Im 6ft 235 11% fat. This is the max fat I want to get.
So I feel one could gain moderate amounts of muscle while keeping fat at bay or even lower it.

You may build more muscle if you bulk so when you cut you will be pounds heavier. Thats great if you compete and need to gain more muscle to wina contest... But I feel having abs all the time to be great. Exspecially during sex hahaha..


I hope you see my point with all this jabbering.
 
No ONE IN HERE IS A PRO OR HAS THEIR IFBB PRO CARD...I DONT WANT TO HERE FOCKERS TALKING ABOUT BULKING THEN CUTTING...UNLESS YOU are on A GRAM OF TEST A WEEK< NANDROLONE< DNP<GH<or>SLIN.....You will get fat lose the lbs but it will all be muscle and you will not be happy....I am a seasoned juicer and dont run anything to heavy...I eat the diet I outlined and make terrific gains....So, if you want to bulk then cut be my guest, but I will be the one taking your women!!! 2 weeks on this diet is not even close to enough time....2 weeks is when you lose the water weight...try it for a month and if your not down 5solid real FAT lbs then Flame me, You will look better be more vascular and stronger...trust me....this diet is sick...Mohawk, good luck I know you will like it......

Busdriver, you might want to stick to the Atkins or Bodyopus type diet....50lbs is a lot andcould take 2 years on the 1/3 diet this is for people who need to lose 4-5% bodyfat in 2-3months....peace
 
10%bf or higher go with keto or the like
10%bf or less id go with iso-caloric
i lost 65lbs bodyopus\keto style but also lost
more lbm then i realy wanted, the iso-caloric
is helping me get to that 6%BF level and i have put on
the lbm that I lost while on keto, both styles of diets have
have their place its just a matter of when to use them.
NJstacked is right the right amount of cals with a clean
diet and you dont need to bulk then cut, ya bulk put on
a shit load of fat have to diet for 3 months take of the fat
and loose muscle tissue because you dieted for so long and your
pretty much at the point you would be if you ate clean in my opion their is no reason to put on more then 3-5%bf while bulking
keep it clean and the gains will be better and quicker, and your cutting will be short and sweet, wtih very little lbm lose if any at all.
 
NJstacked said:
No ONE IN HERE IS A PRO OR HAS THEIR IFBB PRO CARD...I DONT WANT TO HERE FOCKERS TALKING ABOUT BULKING THEN CUTTING...UNLESS YOU are on A GRAM OF TEST A WEEK< NANDROLONE< DNP<GH<or>SLIN.....You will get fat lose the lbs but it will all be muscle and you will not be happy....I am a seasoned juicer and dont run anything to heavy...I eat the diet I outlined and make terrific gains....So, if you want to bulk then cut be my guest, but I will be the one taking your women!!! 2 weeks on this diet is not even close to enough time....2 weeks is when you lose the water weight...try it for a month and if your not down 5solid real FAT lbs then Flame me, You will look better be more vascular and stronger...trust me....this diet is sick...Mohawk, good luck I know you will like it......

Busdriver, you might want to stick to the Atkins or Bodyopus type diet....50lbs is a lot andcould take 2 years on the 1/3 diet this is for people who need to lose 4-5% bodyfat in 2-3months....peace

I'll try it again, maybe I did not give it enough time (I was near the end of my cycle, so perhaps my muscles were already use to my lifts thus causing no gains).

Btw, I get a ton of girls weither I am fat, skinny, or musclular (I've been all 3). Girls don't always go for muscle - sometimes they go for personality, don't pull that bs and discremenate the opposite sex.
 
You have a point there!

Im not sure about anyone else but I train to look good for myself. Most woman dont lilke big muscular guys...

Im sure he said that as a joke by the way.
 
You sensitive pussys, take off your fucking skirts...it was a joke....but I am not hear to justify my remarks.....

Anyway, Advaik, please try it again, I think if you gave it an honest shot you would really enjoy it!!!!

Mohawk, how is it going? Are you running any juice with the diet....

Good luck to all and when all of you reach your goals...I will pay for your admission to Soundfactory!
 
Yeah i took in some juice... but even if I dont that is the diet I usually run.

I can eat my burgers or steak with out any guilt.
 
Hey guys,

Just wante to bump up this post. Real informative.

The last couple of weeks I decided to try something else. High carb and low protein. I found I was always hungry. Now I am back to my roots. Iso-caloric diet. Maybe I will go back up to 235lbs. I shrunk down to 225... Im sure its from the other diet.
 
Hey NJ,

Just curious on how this diet is going for you. I did get side tracked for a bit, and suffered a lost of size, im sure. But I am back on this eating plan and hopefully will get past the 10% mark.
 
I think this is the most idiotic/unscientific/anecdotal post I've ever read on how to look a little better than the "average male" by eating whatever you want while you're still a young male, preferably while taking gear. Rez, my best advice is to stick to the women's board for diet advice.

Isocaloric is great for bulking (ie wearing oversized clothes in the winter). It sucks BIG TIME for cutting (male or female). If you're not a competitive bodybuilder then obviously the rules change. the majority of women like vaguely muscular men, and the majority of men like soft, thin unmusclular women. This does not mean these are ideals to strive for on this board, unless you wanna be a supermodel! Nothing wrong with that, they make lots of money.

However, if your goal is to be ultra cut and musclular, I would avoid an isocaloric diet for cutting like the proverbial plague.
 
I have to disagree here. Yes you can use this to bulk..(which is worthless in my opinion) but with this way of eating will not make you fat, as long as your total calories are below maintanance. By eating this way you will lose fat.

Dan Ducahine recommended this way of eating a few years back. Arnold calimed he use to eat this way...(40-30-30), but if you want to eat as many carbs as you want while eating no fat to get leaner..go ahead. You will be disapointed, but you will learn.
 
The Iso-Caloric Diet by Dan Duchaine

While it is possible to lose more than one pound per week through further calorie reduction or by increasing aerobics, you will lose some muscle along with the fat. On paper, your body will look as if the diet is working. The mirror, however, will tell a different story. Even a 5 percent change in calories or aerobics will cause muscle loss.

The first way to prevent muscle loss is to change the fat to carbohydrate ratio. In the Iso-Caloric Diet, these are changed to: 1/3 Protein 1/3 Fat and 1/3 Carbohydrate. Adjusting these ratios will cause faster fat loss. Although there is a scientific explanation for this phenomenon, I first discovered it the hard way through trial and error. No other combination worked.

At first, it seemed logical to try reducing calories further, but this caused too much muscle loss too quickly. Does increasing protein help maintain muscle mass? Nope, it doesn't. Increasing aerobics looks like a popular choice -- after all, gyms have lots of steppers and rowers and bikes, all occupied with well-meaning individuals. Aerobics must be good, right? Wrong! As a matter of fact, increased aerobics causes just as much muscle loss as calorie restriction.

After screwing up in so many other ways, I finally arrived at the 1/3 ratios. Most athletes won't be happy with this. They've been conditioned not to eat dietary fat. Besides, lowering carbohydrates increases hunger and anxiety for a while. However, eating lots of carbohydrates makes your metabolism unable to burn fat efficiently.

If you have patience and not too much fat to lose, you will probably get damn close to your goal with the Modern Diet. The Modern Diet will allow you to be relatively happy, sociable, energetic and feed your carbohydrate addiction.

When "damn close" isn't close enough, you need the Iso-Caloric Diet. Will you be hungrier? Only at first. Will your strength decrease? Again, only at first. Will you loss muscle? Less than you would with any of the other alternatives.

In the Iso-Caloric Diet, we are once again concerned with the quality of the body's energy sources, not the quantity. Some people will object to eating a diet that is 1/3 fat. Fat is B-A-A-A-D, isn't it?

Fat isn't perfect, but it's all we have to work with. We can't decrease total calories because we don't want to lose muscle. The high carbohydrates of the Modern Diet will need to change to either protein or fat. Exchanging the carbohydrates for protein won't work because not all of the amino acids can be converted into energy. Much of the amino acid content is excreted as urea, a waste product. Calorie for calorie, protein will not provide the same energy as carbohydrates. This is why high protein diets cause faster fat loss than high carbohydrate diets. Because protein has less usable energy, the body will strip down muscle to scavenge the energy-producing amino acids. Glutamine will be used first, then the branched-chain amino acids, then alanine.

If we can't eat protein, all that's left is fat. Eating more fat will also reduce insulin secretion and make the fat-burning energy pathways more efficient. In the presence of insulin, the body will not release stored fat for energy. Therefore, as dieters, we want to reduce insulin secretion.

In the future, there may be better alternatives. The latest nutritional research shows that dietary pyruvate and lactate can activate alternative energy cycles that work better than fat or protein. These future foods will not cause insulin secretion, allowing faster fat loss while preserving more muscle from catabolism. Right now, however, these options are both tantalizing and futile. Currently, both pyruvate and lactate are hard to find, expensive, bad-tasting and boring to eat.

Almost all fat -- saturated or not, essential or not -- will work in the Iso-Caloric Diet. Energy-wise, it doesn't matter. You could use MCTs, for that matter, but they're are not as much fun as an additional serving of oily fish, walnuts or avocado.

If you followed my recommendations for fat choices in the Modern Diet, you are eating mostly essential fats. You would be shocked at how little fat you'll need to eat to increase fat calories by 23 percent. Salad and cooking oils don't take up much room. It doesn't take many avocados or walnuts to add a lot of calories. How about -- dare I say it -- peanut butter (no trans, that is)? Surely this isn't diet food.

Some people have asked me: If the Iso-Caloric Diet is so superior to the Modern Diet, why didn't I recommend it first? Well, most people are used to something like the Modern Diet. It's easy to start, "believe" and follow. Each change in longstanding habits requires more discipline.

Why increase protein by 8 percent? Fatty foods usually contain protein. Eggs, fish, meat, and that slice of cheese you can finally eat all contain protein in addition to fat. Even peanut butter contains protein.

The Iso-Caloric Diet requires more discipline than the Modern Diet, but if you're impatient, or have an inflexible timetable, the Iso-Caloric Diet will get you virtually all the way to your goals. The Modern Diet won't. Of course, strength and energy will suffer for about 5 days, but after that, you'll feel even better than before.

The Iso-Caloric Diet begins to solve a major problem in dieting (aside from hunger and anxiety): impatience. While the problem of impatience has not been completely solved, we've appeased it for now. Although there is a better diet plan to come, it is illuminating to examine the preliminary solutions to the dilemmas I've encountered in my years as a professional body confidante.

Rating: 4/5
 
Exactly, it is a great diet to lose fat and maintain as much muscle as possible. Especially if you are not going to consider any kind of CKD. The idea is to change your body composition for the better, without sacrificing hard earned muscle. And it works fairly quick as well as far as diets go.
 
My comments about this thread have nothing to do with what Duchaine or Arnold or anyone else eats or says they eat. My comments were directed more to people like Rez, or competitive bodybuilders in general. NJ you are off the mark and out of line to suggest that what pros do and eat has nothing to do with serious bodybuilders on this board. We have 2 guys, both taking gear and claiming they don't want to get ripped, they just wanna look good enough to hook chicks. One of them (at least) is struggling to get down to 10%bf even though he's taking AAS (I can't even begin to fathom why a guy who does not want to get big or ultra lean would be taking gear unless he was having a problem with, ummmm, sexual performance). And we have lots of anectodal, almost religious fervor about how this diet is great for everyone (and by implication this includes females who want to get ultra ripped for competitions without any gear....)

I say show me the photos of all of these women who are competing well without AAS while getting well below 10% bf on an iso diet. This diet is NOT the best for everyone in all situations.
 
MS...get off your fucking high horse...Duchaine was a GOD and he was also the biggest Advocate of this diet...until you spell your name DAN DUCHAINE, I will not acknowldge your presence...

As for the diet...IT IS THE MOST EASY TO FOLLOW DIET ON THE PLANET...THAT IS THE MOST HEALTHY WAY TO EAT....FACT....ASK YOUR FUCKING DOCTOR>>>>I AM SURE HE WILL TELL YOU ZERO CARBS IS HORRIBLE>>>>>>>So WOMEN, take my advice...isocaloric dieting allows one to live their life....while also shedding pounds....THe FUCK is MS talking about Isocaloric as a BULKING DIET? MAKES NO SENSE ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE TAKING IN LESS CALORIES THAN your maintenance was or hen you burn.....
 
REZ, Exactly...ask me sweets! I wil tell you the good honest info....not have you doing some Freak diet....!!! Anyway,,, sample diet for a 200 lb male would look like this:

Meal 1: Egg beaters,
1 slice cheese
wheat bread

meal 2: Balance Bar (Almond Brownie!!!)

meal 3: 2 slices of pizza or 1 hamburger

meal 4: protein shake

meal 5: Salmon
salad with light dressing
little pasta or bread

meal 6: popcorn or protein depending on your daily macro totals


I always plan ahead...for instance if I am going to the movies and want popcorn that night I factor it in before the days eating begins........If I am having a pasta dinner then I factor that in and might lay off the pizza for lunch or bread with breakfast.......GET A FAT /CARb/ Protein book......When I want to get shreaded I use this diet.....I can get fro 12% to 8% in one month....4 weeks, 28 days.............AND I LOVE THE VARIETY OF FOOD>>>>>>>

I am currently on a harsh cycle so I am not eating this diet...I am eating 400 grams of Protein and 200 grams of carbs with about 70 grams of fat......Trying to bulk becasue I CANNOT BULK WITH THE ISOCALORIC DIET~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
 
In all honesty 6% can be achieved, but it requires CARDIO, Something I dont believe in........MY girlfriend follows this diet to a tee and she is ripped to shreads and looks fuckin awesome....she is 5'7 120!!! Fairly muscular..
 
Thats great!

Just out of curiosity...why cant you bulk on the isocaloric diet? Even if you eat more total calories?

I just starting eating this way again today and I feel full and pumped. And satisfied.

This is one of the best diet posts here. I wish it would stay a sticky. Untill then I will just bump it.
 
im telling you...i would turn into a blimp on that diet...

i dont weigh much, but my bf is 22% last time taken. i cant have those starchy carbs..i feel gross after them. how could you do this diet eating healthy?
what does your g/f's diet look like?
 
NJ, you mistake my comments. I am also not a fan of keto diets, though I at least recognize that some people do better on them than iso diets or very low fat diets. If you want to be religious about Duchaine, that is you choice, but like all religions you cannot expect everyone else to idolize him. He was good at thinking outside of the square that bodybuilders were in at the time, but he was certainly not infallible in his theories and approaches. Besides, Duchaine was focused on optimal strategies for bodybuilders and according to you there are none on this board LOL. And to put it mildly, a 5'7' inch female at 120 lbs, even if ripped to the bone, is hardly a bodybuilder. Sounds closer to anorexia to me.

However, there are a lot of top notch bodybuilders that use iso or zone diets when in a mass phase. Just curious, if you don't eat iso when bulking, then what DO you eat to bulk? Oh yeah, I forgot you don't bulk.

I did an informal survey at the post competition Nationals dinner last year. 100% of the first place class winners that I spoke to (5 females and 2 males) had all dieted for the show on a very low fat, medium carb, high protein diet (they varied from 45:45:10 to 40:40:20). Not a single keto or iso dieter in this line up. My biggest regret is that I didn't ask the same question of any last place finishers! I'm a bodybuilder, not a guy catcher/wannabe ramp model, and the advice I give reflects that fact.
 
MS said:
100% of the first place class winners that I spoke to (5 females and 2 males) had all dieted for the show on a very low fat, medium carb, high protein diet (they varied from 45:45:10 to 40:40:20). Not a single keto or iso dieter in this line up.

The ratios you mentioned are based on equal consumption of carbs and protein while you wrote "medium carb, high protein diet ".

Then,when you're taking roids you don't need much dietary fat but.. when you're natty,you need an adequate dietary fat intake to support your body's hormonal balance.

In addition with a diet that is 40-30-30 or 33-33-33 you keep insulin levels down while at the same time elevating glucagon and GH.Especially when the majority of your carb inake consists of low glycemic ones.You need a long-lasting energy and you also need to satisfy your hunger as well.You can't live on boneless chicken and baked potato for the rest of your life.

It's obviously -as I've said lots of times in the past- that a meal high in carbs has to be low in fat;eitherway you're gonna gain additional bodyfat.
But when you keep the carbs medium and consume an adequate amount of protein (aids in glucagon release) and an adequate amount of fat the meal's gi is very low,thus you have created a very good balance.
You always must create a good balance to get the most from your diet.
 
Blackalpha, my terminology may have been sloppy, but in general carb intake of 30- 50% is considered moderate, whereas protein intake above 25% is considered high, and fat below 20% is considered low.

"Then,when you're taking roids you don't need much dietary fat but.. when you're natty,you need an adequate dietary fat intake to support your body's hormonal balance."

I would like a reference for this statement. It's absolute bullshit. I agree you need adequate EFAs, but you certainly do not need 30% fat to get enough EFAs. I have never seen any evidence that juicers need less EFAs than nattys. And not all women at national level are juicers. I can guarantee you that at least 2 of those women were natts. Aside from that, I seem to recall both NJ and Mohawk are juicers, so whatever. I'm just telling it like it is. Your theory about balance is very interesting, but I'm in the real world now. Very few top level competitors diet down using ketos or isos, especially females. This does not make an iso diet "bad". A diet is as good as it's ability to help you achieve your goals.
 
Hmmm...this is getting kind of heated. everyone take a deep breath...lol. Na just kiddin'. I know Duchaine was a big pusher for the isocaloric diet for dieting, but he also mentioned that its effects were not much different than that of a 40-40-20 diet and any other type zone diet when calories were debited. He also stated that a lot of people CAN get by with a high carbohydrate diet, and was in favor of this pattern if the dieter was successful with it...after all, and BOTH him and MS have mentioned that many, many people HAVE won titles using high carb plans. 4 of the main reasons for Duchaine promotion of the isocaloric diet was for 1) Those with insulin sensitivity problems, thus the added fats ability to "cautiously" help with slowing down absorption. 2.) Fats ability to quench humger. 3.) Its hormonal properties. and 4) Its ability to prepare dieters in getting ready for the added fat in a CKD diet.

He stated many times that a CKD, iso/zone, and high carb diet would pretty much yield the same amount of fat loss, but was more successful with using a CKD for the last bit of stubborn body fat. Actually, I think he even mentioned that a high carb diet would yield FASTER fat loss if the body was susceptible to this way of eating.

From personal experience, I know that I have gotten better results from a zone/iso type pattern than a high carb diet. BUT, I would still incorporate refeeds in at least once a week. As Par Deus has pointed out, this could probably be increased to every three days with no problems, and I think I agree, especially if calories are not excessive.

As for bulking, and I am talking from a competition perspective where things are not always the most healthiest, most professionals that ordinarily would not be able to succeed on a high carb diet, are able to get away with this way of eating due to the increased drugs like Thyroid, test and other anabolics, IGF-1, DNP, GH, GH, GH, and more GH, and never seem to get fat. I believe towards the end of Duchaines career, he was big on a zone type diet with a 40-40-20 scheme pattern. Although, the thing that made him great is that he NEVER closed the door completely for other possiblities and ways. You never could tell what he was up to next.

Newer research is always conflicting, and many advances have come out in research showing newer possibilities either validating or invalidating past research, it is just plain nerve racking. Bottom line is that you ARE going to gain fat and water weight on a hypercaloric diet, and you will lose fat and water on a hypocaloric diet. The main thing to keep in ind is total calorie consumption and expenditure. 90% of the diets out there, the hard part is finding the ones that work best. This will ALWAYS vary between individuals...again, you have to find what works best for you!

One thing I would like to end on about DAN the MAN, like I said earlier, he was always open to new ideas. Part of the reason why Lyle got his break was because Duchaine needed to keep his original BodyOpus diet updated, therefore he had faith in LYLE, as well as a lot of people to help make this diet better. Duchaines overall goal was to FIX body problems in fat and muscle gains/loss. HE would be disapppointed if we all just sat on our asses and never tried to improve what he and others helped create. Newer research is always coming out, and we would be fools to expect the same old diets to always be the best ways of eating. Simply, he would frown on us for being lazy! I for one am excited on about carrying on the tradition, as should you.

BMJ
 
MS said:
1)Blackalpha, my terminology may have been sloppy, but in general carb intake of 30- 50% is considered moderate, whereas protein intake above 25% is considered high, and fat below 20% is considered low.

2)I would like a reference for this statement. It's absolute bullshit. I agree you need adequate EFAs, but you certainly do not need 30% fat to get enough EFAs. I have never seen any evidence that juicers need less EFAs than nattys. And not all women at national level are juicers. I can guarantee you that at least 2 of those women were natts. Aside from that, I seem to recall both NJ and Mohawk are juicers, so whatever. I'm just telling it like it is. Your theory about balance is very interesting, but I'm in the real world now. Very few top level competitors diet down using ketos or isos, especially females. This does not make an iso diet "bad". A diet is as good as it's ability to help you achieve your goals.

1)It's your opinion.I respect it.

2)I don't need a reference to prove something obvious.
And let me tell you something: Do and say wtf you want to,but as long as your calories are close to your maintainance levels,you won't gain even 1g of weight.Is it wrong?
And to be more specific,if you're under maintainance,even if your diet is what you call high in fat (around 30%) you won't gain even 1g of FAT! eventhough you may loose some fat instead.
If you're able to gain fat on an iso diet,it's due to your bad lifestyle.(lack of aerobic and primally anaerobic activities).
 
In addition,tell me why the fuck French people eat buttery croissants,cheeses,fondue,meats,butters,brioche bread etc and are so leaner than the average American who follows a high carb diet?

They simply keep a good balance and eat a big variety of foods.Oh,and of course they have smaller portions.Obviously,they don't exceed mainainance levels but their diets are close to isocaloric.
 
Right now I'm using the Ketogeinc diet w/slin outlined in EF's bulking/cutting guide 2000. I'm 1/2 way through the second week
Now once I'm done w/ this diet can I switch right to the 1/3,1/3,1/3, diet?
 
SDRaver said:
Right now I'm using the Ketogeinc diet w/slin outlined in EF's bulking/cutting guide 2000. I'm 1/2 way through the second week
Now once I'm done w/ this diet can I switch right to the 1/3,1/3,1/3, diet?

Yes, but incorporate carbs back slowly into the diet. Wheter you do a carb-up or not the last week before the switch could make a difference. Your body will be in need of carbs and will store them at first in muscle bellies, but after 2-3 days, you will start getting a little fat accumulation. To combat this, keep calories sub-maintenance. Maybe a 40-40-20 scheme would work after the carb-up. However, I would still incorporate some sort of thermogenic with the mix (if continuing as a fat burning program).

Are you switching to isocaloric for "bulking-up" or as an alternate dieting scheme for "leaning-up"?

I probably could have answered this better, but will wait for a response. Maybe others can also share some of their info as well. Take it easy bro!
BMJ
 
Blackalpha, read the title of this thread. Do you really believe that an iso diet is the best one for ALL people ALL the time?? Can we not be a little more open minded as MR BMJ asked? If you are a bodybuilder (as I've made clear I am) then I think you'll struggle to to thrive/grow and get ripped on a purely iso diet. Why does this piss you off so much. And why are you grumpy because I challenged your statement that folks on gear need less fat in their diets than nattys? You state it as if it's common, proven knowledge!!

I am not denying that you can lose fat or stay lean on an iso (or any other diet that is submaintenance calories). But I know for a FACT that many people do not have the will power to put only ONE piece of pizza in their mouth. I also know that females have more problems controlling their food intake when the food is salty (such as most pizzas) so it is misleading to say "stick to these ratios and don't worry about anything else". I also know for a FACT that you need a minimum intake of protein to preserve muscle while dieting, so obviously a high carb/fat with low protein diet would not work for a bodybuilder, but may be fine for keeping Joe average from getting obese if calories are kept in control.

Bottom line, any sub maintenance diet is hard to stick to when you get ultra lean. If you wanna maintain moderate leaness, then iso is fine. If ya wanna get ripped, you have to work very hard no matter what ratios you use.

BTW as the French have always asserted, Americans are PIGS, and that is why they are fat. It is not the types of foods, it's the quantities.

I still haven't figured out why a guy would take AAS when he wants to be neither big nor lean......
 
thanks for replying first off. I guess you can say i just recently came off building phase. now just want to lean out what I have I'm also using EQ,Decca,primo, clen, along with this diet. considering I'm using gear during this diet should any changes be made. I'm only 2 1/2 weeks in to it. In fact I feel i only need a few more weeks of it to get to where i want to be. I've done the keto diet on three different occasions during off cycles but this is the 1st time while using gear.
 
Dear MS,I am a very open minded person.I have tried many diets in the past but I'm not a newbie (I'm a mod in another bb site in the diet & nutrition forums) so eventhough I am not a pro,I still know many things about many diets.There are things that you may know better than me,I don't disagree.

You asked me if I "really believe that an iso diet is the best one for ALL people ALL the time?? " -Of course my reply is I don't!.We know that each individual has its special needs and not every diet is gonna work for him.I just noticed that when you're not above maintainance,it's a great diet for many reasons.Not only for an improve in your athletic performance but primary because of the freedom it gives you.(it's mental)

You told me that:"But I know for a FACT that many people do not have the will power to put only ONE piece of pizza in their mouth. I also know that females have more problems controlling their food intake when the food is salty (such as most pizzas) so it is misleading to say "stick to these ratios and don't worry about anything else"
-Ok,you're totally right but anyone who doesn't have willpower is gonna fail whatever the diet he follows consists of.In addition I was talking about maintainance and not pig-out-ainance.. :D
 
I just started the 1/3 diet again today and I am really excited...I am trying to eat a little cleaner on it, but with the gear it is never a real problem...Cant wait to see those striated abs....
 
I didn't read this whole thread and I'm sure it's been mentioned but no diet is the best for everyone...shit, I am fucking dieting right now and my intake is close to 3,500 cals/day...
 
3500 calories per day dieting?????

Damn! I would probably be fat! And I weigh 235lbs!!!
 
I am confused. NJ, you said at the beggining that you do this diet all the time and that it gets you lean. THen you said that you don't do it on juice (you gave your grams for P/C/F). THen you said that you were on the juice and that were switching back to the 33/33/33. THen later you said you only use it when you want to get lean. I am confused. So do you or don't you:

1.) Use it while on juice?
2.) Use it all year long?


I am not trying to get in an argument here, but I want to try the diet but I am not sure what you are exactly saying about when to use it. Peace.
 
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MIkeb...listen this post was written in the summer and people are still responding....I do it sometimes while I am juicing and sometimes when i am off....Its a fucking diet...try it and stop asking stupid fucking questions.....
 
Stupid fucking question???? Why don't you get rid of that attitude bro. God forbid I ask your highness a question. Not my fault you didn't make sense. Sorry I didn't examine the dates on the posts. Even if I did, that had nothing to do with my question. It is my fault, I should have realized you were an asshole from your other posts and not even asked anything. Peace.
 
whoa! Take it easy guys.

All it is is a way of healthy eating. Lower your calories untill you get into shape. Bottom Line!
 
Let's all keep in mind that all of our bodies react differently to different stimulus. Trial and error is always the best way to see what works for each of us.
 
mikeb23 said:
Why don't you get rid of that attitude bro. ...It is my fault, I should have realized you were an asshole from your other posts and not even asked anything.

damn, i was thinking the exact same thing....it's a discussion board, and for christ's sake, he's a moderator?

WOW
 
Since I'm 225lbs and approximately 14%BF I'll need

225g protein
225g Carbs
100g Fat

If I stick to this, everyday, how long time before I'll see some results?

Are we talking weeks or months?
 
well..if you burn more calories then you consume you will burn fat.
Its just that this way of eating is easier...TRUST ME!

I am currently following a diet from my buddy markus reinhardt...

low fat, low carbs, medium protein...cant wait to hit the higher carbs phase... :(
 
So many fucking geeks in here...stop your crying...I am so sick of explaining this diet read my fucking thread where it explains it all....Trying to help out some fat asses and it explodes in your face...people are so sensitive....
 
NJstacked.....

you're a pathetic excuse for a moderator. i tried to come back to my chat board roots (elite) to post more often...it's quite clear now why i don't come here that often anymore. it's people like you who spoil it
 
NJ Stack has a point though....

He made a great post that I decided to bump. Then we have alot of people keep asking stuff on it. The original post said it all! Why is everyone making such a big deal?
Its a diet that is easy to follow. Just keep you calories under maintenance and you will lose fat.
 
Pharm Animal...You are so F'ing sensitive stop your crying...I am not here to baby people along with the diet...my thread explains it all...just read it and absorb the info...."CRY ME A RIVER"....
 
BY THE WAY....

the isocaloric diet is not the best diet, and if that's your true belief, you should step out of the cave a bit more often.
 
A diet is only effective if you stay on it.
This diet is easier to stay on the anyother.
 
The reason isocaloric works the best is that it slows down the drop in leptin. You should be adding refeeds also so that leptin does not drop too low.
 
Yeah refeed. So that your leptin levels return to normal. Depending on how low below your normal or natural bodyfat level is you will need to refeed more frequently and for a longer period of time.

Basically a refeed is a day of eating high carb, low fat, moderate protein food at 20-50% above maintenance.

The best way for me to sum it up would be this link:

http://www.theministryoffitness.com/mof/library/articles/article18.htm

The article there is a summary of commentary by Lyle Mcdonald, Elzi Volk(i think that is her name) and others over at MFW.

MFW stands for misc fitness weights, a group at google.com. GO check it out and do a search on leptin,refeeds, isocaloric dieting, etc.
 
I just went off this plan for one day! I ate the usual high carbs 400g protein was 160. I feel huge and bloated in the waist!!!! And my calories were low!
Og well back to my usual plan!
 
I like this NJstacked cat. I may not agree with him on the diet thing, but he don't take shit from anybody! That said, the reason I don't like this diet is that I firmly believe "YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT". I am getting ready for a bodybuilding show right now and eating pizza and mayo just doesn't cut it. Even if I stay under my calorie range for the day. Of course I still get 3000 cals a day but they consists of tuna, egg whites, chicken, oatmeal, turkey, whey and yams. If I were to follow your diet I would definitly not be in the condition I am now.
 
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I am not certain about this diet, nor have I read the whole thread, but NJstacked seems to be happy with it and interestingly enough he said he tends to eat all his carbs at night. Perhaps this could account for an increase in insulin sensitvity and enhance his results. Timing of when carbs and protein are eaten can be far more important than we often think, just an idea.
 
Well I think this diet is made to get people leaner without having to eat 100% strict as maybe a competitor would. For the average bodybuilder who wants to stay in shape this may be the ticket.
 
MohawkMuscle said:
Well I think this diet is made to get people leaner without having to eat 100% strict as maybe a competitor would. For the average bodybuilder who wants to stay in shape this may be the ticket.

BINGO... I woulda said the same thing :)
 
Like I said before... I ate 400 grams of carbs monday and wednesdays workout was intense!!! Full hard pumps!!!! Ouch!
 
sorry,
I had to make this a 100 post.

Very good eating tactics by the way.. although I am currently eating a little different. This plan rocks!
 
Thanks for bumping this Mohawk. I'm gonna give it another bump... give Crum some competition ;)...
 
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