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Test e and Tren e

the tank 25

New member
hello guys
im new to anabolic steroids and need lots of advice
I managed to cut my weight from 270lb down to 225lb currently just by working out and dieting right but i want to reach that next level where i could actually see my abs for once in my life and at the same time i want to stay bulky and even get a little bigger
so here is my stats
im 21 years old
5'11" hight
the equipment
week 1-10: 500 mg test e
week 2-7: 400 mg of tren e
as far as PCT im just running clomid
ive done lots of research but i got lots of question still
is the PCT fine?
would i need to run that tren e for longer?
is 2 injections of tren e 200 enough each week?
i would really appreciate answers/advices :anon:
You should run test only man, tren is experienced aas users iv only now had the balls to use and ive been cycling for years

Pain is temporary, glory is forever!
You wont get ripped off tren or winny unless your diet is spot on, with a good diet test only would give you a really good kick no need for more compounds on your first run

Pain is temporary, glory is forever!
hello guys
im new to anabolic steroids and need lots of advice
I managed to cut my weight from 270lb down to 225lb currently just by working out and dieting right but i want to reach that next level where i could actually see my abs for once in my life and at the same time i want to stay bulky and even get a little bigger
so here is my stats
im 21 years old
5'11" hight
the equipment
week 1-10: 500 mg test e
week 2-7: 400 mg of tren e
as far as PCT im just running clomid
ive done lots of research but i got lots of question still
is the PCT fine?
would i need to run that tren e for longer?
is 2 injections of tren e 200 enough each week?
i would really appreciate answers/advices :anon:

My friend Its ok to want to stack for your first cycle however jumping right into the super big boy stuff like tren I would advice against it... If you are going to run tren you should run Tren-ace anyway that way if you get sides you can drop it and sides will taper off faster because the ester will clear faster... Also when it comes to steroids like tren the faster esters is way more powerful with less sides then the Ethenate...

Now if you are looking for a nice hard good gain cycle to get some good lean muscle from I think you would be better off starting with Test and provirone . The provirone will lower estrogen and progesterone as well as it does Prevent fat storing better than any other steroid...

Yes steroids prevent fat storing and some do it better then others yes even though you will see thousands of numb numbs repeating the same regurgitated bro-ology that was repeated 10-20-30 years ago this does not mean its right. Just because most of the people say it in no way at all means it right and I want you to never forget that...

Males typically have less body fat than females. Recent Studies indicate that "androgens" inhibit the ability of some fat cells to store lipids by blocking a signal transduction pathway that normally supports adipocyte function Testosterone Inhibits Adipogenic Differentiation in 3T3-L1 Cells: Nuclear Translocation of Androgen Receptor Complex with ?-Catenin and T-Cell Factor 4 May Bypass Canonical Wnt Signaling to Down-Regulate Adipogenic Transcription Factors <--if you are at my level you may have a chance of understanding what this is saying. However most are not thus way they are reduced to repeating the same "easy" lemmings hand book shit...

Furthermore androgens, not "estrogens", increase beta andrenergic receptors while decreasing alpha adrenergic receptors- which results in increased levels of epinephrine/ norepinephrine due to lack of alpha-2 receptor negative feedback and decreased fat accumulation due to epinephrine/ norepinephrine then acting on lipolysis-inducing beta receptors

So all this steroids do not have an effect on fat is a load of bull shit. However the results you get from steroids is still going to be closely related to how well you maintain your diet , what kind of a diet and training you stick to. But I just do not like when people say steroids do not have an effect on fat because they damn sure do and Provirone has more of an effect than others. With that being said lets now move into your pct and what I think of it.

As for your pct Its about as worthless as tits on a bull and is going to cause more problems than it will solve.. Do not fall for the bro'ology retardation shit that's regurgitated by newbs with 2011 join dates who don't know any better. They are still lviing in the 80's and prob got their advice from some one in the 80's lmao...

The Only pct I endorse at this time right now is in my Article here:D:D
This Article above Brakes down Pct and blows your mind with the amount of knowledge and supporting evidence/writing/literature ^^^
Now I would like to say if you cant sit through something like this and read the whole thing. Then you really have no business taking these kinds od drugs in the first place. You also have no business making a comment on this thread ether. Thanks.

What Is Nolvadex/Tamoxifen?

Tamoxifen is considered as the antagonist of the estrogen receptor which again is primarily present in the breast tissue of the human body. It is interesting to note that certain breast cancer cells require that the estrogen levels need to grow with passing time. Ideally, Tamoxifen has been used as the standard endocrine for the treatment of early breast cancer patients. It is therefore used as an anti estrogen therapy and it is mainly given to postmenopausal women. The role of an estrogen is to bind as well as activate the estrogen receptors that are present in the breast cells of a human body. The role of Tamoxifen is to stop estrogen to bind with the receptor. Although it is metabolized into compounds that aid in the binding of estrogen receptors, Tamoxifen does not allow the estrogen receptors to get activated in the breast cells of the human body. Hence, the growth of breast cancer cells can be stopped by making use of this compound. Nonetheless, results vary from person to person and the use of Tamoxifen cannot be deduced as a permanent cure for breast cancer patients.

It is ideally a drug which is taken orally in the form of an edible tablet and it is known to interfere with the activity of the estrogen levels present in the breast tissue. It has been studied that unless the estrogen levels in the human body are kept under strict control, they can lead to breast cancer. Tamoxifen has primarily been used for the past 30 years for treating patients suffering from breast cancer. It has also been administered to patients who are in their early stages of breast cancer. Even patients whose breast cancer has spread to various parts of the body have been known to use Tamoxifen on a regular basis. It has been stated that this drug has the ability to stop cancer cells from spreading within the human body but ironically there is no substantial study which clearly backs this statement with the help of substantial proof. Nonetheless, owing to the hype that it has received via media, people who are having breast cancer or those women who run the risk of developing breast cancer have been known to take this medicine on a regular basis. Interestingly, it has also been seen that women who are suffering from ductul carcinoma in stu, which in turn is similar to invasive breast cancer, have also been known to administer this medicine on a regular basis.

In the past 20 years steroid users have been using nolvadex for a number of reasons. To ether help reduce bloat or gyno problems during a cycle or after a cycle to help recovery natural test production. In men, tamoxifen "nolvaldex" is sometimes used by steroid-taking, weight-training athletes.An alternative and highly similar compound is clomiphene citrate "clomid". These drugs are used as anti-estrogen therapy. In this regard, the drug is used for three purposes. The first purpose, is to reduce the effect of circulating estrogens even if Tamoxifen itself increase the circulating level of estrogens since they are not bound to the estrogen receptors. Abnormally high levels of estrogen in men, can be caused by taking highly aromatizing anabolic steroids e.g. Dianabol, Anadrol or Testosterone. In dosing with a dosing with 20 mg of Novaldex (Tamoxifen) for the duration of a steroid cycle, a reduction in water retention can be achieved. This prevents large fluctuations in water weight within the muscle.

Using Tamoxifen for the duration of a steroid cycle may or may not promote a preferable outcome for a weight training athlete, as the temporary increase in water weight within the muscle increases strength and allows larger weights to be used for the duration of the steroid cycle. Said water will dissipate once usage of steroids has ceased, and a dramatic loss in weight can be observed. Tamoxifen is also used to prevent estrogen related gynecomastia, resulting from elevated estrogenic levels. It can be taken as a preventative measure in small doses, or used at the onset of any symptoms e.g. nipple soreness/sensitivity. In the latter case, dosing reverses the affliction

However it Is now well known that well taking nolvadex serum level estrogen raises and yet another drug must be taken with it during cycle,during pct,or after pct to prevent estrogen rebound. (how retarded). Studies have of course shown the its use can cause a rise in lh and test production but at what cost? Many other factors must be taken into account.

All this is happening in complete ignorance as they are not aware that this medicine has certain side effects that can prove fatal in the longer run. At the same time robbing ones self of a better pct and cycle from using drugs like this.
Though I do feel its "ok" to use them "if you must" but use as little as you can and use support/pct sups to help alleviate the side effects and bad feelings one gets from these harsh drugs.

Where Was This drug Discovered?

Interestingly, this drug was discovered by AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals which were earliest known as ICI pharmaceuticals. It is now sold under various trade names such as Nolvadex, Valodex and Istubal. Although it is sold under various names, it is primarily known and popularly termed as Tamoxifen. Although this drug is widely used in treating breast cancer patients, it also has adverse side effects which very few people are actually aware off.

Once praised for its benefits in preventing breast cancer recurrence, the lucrative pharmaceutical drug tamoxifen is now implicated in causing dangerous side-effects, including other types of cancers.

In the early 1970's, a shameful chapter closed on the widespread use of a known carcinogenic and endocrine-disrupting drug called DES (diethylstilboestrol), the first synthetic, non-steroidal estrogen drug. Against the advice of its creator, Sir Charles Dodd, between four and six million American and European women and 10,000 Australian women innocently used DES for the prevention of miscarriage and pregnancy complications.

In addition, DES became a popular though unproven drug for a variety of other conditions. It was used for the suppression of lactation, the treatment of acne, the treatment of certain types of breast and prostatic cancer, and as an inhibitor of growth in young girls, an estrogen replacement in menopause and a "morning after" pill.

It would take 30 years to accept what laboratory tests had indicated as early as 1938 — that DES was a highly dangerous and harmful drug. It was reported that, 20 years after taking DES, mothers had a 40 to 50 per cent greater risk of breast cancer than non-exposed mothers. In addition, the children of DES mothers showed a high incidence of reproductive abnormalities, miscarriages, vaginal cancer, testicular cancer, sterility and immune dysfunction. In fact, it is feared that repercussions of this drug will be felt for generations to come.

The irony of this entire debacle is that the medical establishment finally acknowledged that DES was useless in preventing miscarriages. Thus, DES, another disastrous experiment on women, was added to the long list of major medical blunders.

Out of this early research, a new drug appeared on the horizon which would be soon be heralded as a shining star in the war against the growing epidemic of breast cancer. In the late 1960's the pharmaceutical industry developed a drug called "tamoxifen". As a synthetic, non-steroidal compound with hormone-like effects (many of which are poorly understood), tamoxifen has a similar structure to DES. In fact, it was observed that tamoxifen caused the same abnormal changes seen in cells of women taking estradiol and DES. This similarity raised alarm bells for some.

Pierre Blais, well known as a drug researcher who was ejected from Canada's health protection bureaucracy when he spoke out about silicone breast implants, describes the story of tamoxifen as "the story of modern drug design which produces garbage drugs". He says, "Good drug design ceased, unfortunately, in the 1930s." Tamoxifen, Blais asserts, " a garbage drug that made it to the top of the scrap heap. It is a DES in the making."

Blais's dire predictions were ignored with the promise of a potential drug treatment for breast cancer. Tamoxifen was first approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use as a birth-control pill; however, it proved to induce rather than inhibit ovulation.(just goes to show how retarded they truly are) Although tamoxifen didn't work as a contraceptive, it was found to lower mammary cancer rates in animals. Animal studies showed that tamoxifen prevented estrogen from binding to receptor sites on breast tissue cells. Tamoxifen also reduced the incidence of breast cancer in rodents after administration of a breast-carcinogenic substance. This discovery provided the impetus to study its effects in treating human breast cancer.

Estrogen is the common link between most breast cancer risk factors, i.e., genetic, reproductive, dietary, lifestyle and environmental. It both stimulates the division of breast cells (healthy as well as cancerous) and, especially in its 'bad' form, increases the risk of breast cancer. Thus, hormonal drugs such as tamoxifen that block the effects of estrogen on the breast were expected to reduce the risk of breast cancer recurring in women treated for breast cancer.

Tamoxifen acts as a weak estrogen by competing for estrogen receptors much as phyto-estrogens do
(I want you to keep this word PHYTO ESTROGENS IN MIND WE WILL COVER IT AGAIN LATER). Like phyto-estrogens, tamoxifen has mild estrogenic properties but is considered an anti-estrogen since it inhibits the activity of regular estrogens. More accurately, tamoxifen is an estrogen-blocker(Not a estrogen reducer)

Yes the test shows over time that both lh and androgins were raised, but at the same time (serum level estrogen was tripled)and thus the reason many experence rebound gyno after its use.

Tamoxifen fights breast cancer by competing with estrogen for space on estrogen receptors in the tumor tissue. Every tamoxifen molecule that hooks onto an estrogen receptor prevents an estrogen molecule from linking up at the same site. Without a steady supply of estrogen, cells in an estrogen-receptor-positive (ER+) tumor do not thrive and the tumor's ability to spread is reduced.

However, tamoxifen exhibited two conflicting characteristics. It could act either as an anti-estrogen or as an estrogen. Therefore, while tamoxifen is anti-estrogenic to the breast, it also acts as an estrogen to the uterus and, to a lesser extent, the heart, blood vessels and bone. Moreover tamoxifen also acts as an estrogen in the liver thus causing the lowering of IGF-1
In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute
Effect of low dose tamoxifen on the insulin-like growth factor system in healthy women
Comparison of Tamoxifen and Testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone-IGF-I Axis -- Fitts et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology

For people suffering from breast cancer I guess this would be a good thing. Since Lowering IGF would reduce the growth of everything. However this is not one any of the people using nolva for pct or on cycle use want now is it?

So, although it initially showed the tendency to counter breast cancer recurrence, it would soon be revealed that it also promoted particularly aggressive uterine and liver cancers, caused fatal blood clots and interfered with many other functions.

Doctors, however, were quick to jump on the tamoxifen bandwagon, turning a blind eye to its more injurious tendencies. Starting in the 1970's oncologists began using tamoxifen to treat women with cancer, often in combination with other drugs, radiation or surgery such as lumpectomy and mastectomy, with modest success. Like DES, tamoxifen's benefits were then extended for use as a preventive against osteoporosis and heart disease.

Today, doctors are treating about one million American breast cancer patients with tamoxifen, about 20 per cent of them for more than five years. As studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1989 and the Journal of the National Cancer Institute in 1992 showed, women with breast cancer who took tamoxifen reduced their chances of developing cancer in the other breast (contralateral cancer) by about 30 to 50 per cent. These findings would later be challenged.

Tamoxifen is now recommended for all pre-menopausal women with hormone-positive cancers, as well as for most postmenopausal women with breast cancer and/or a growing number of women with hormone-negative cancers. Tamoxifen is currently used by more women with breast cancer than any other drug.

Tamoxifen (brand name Nolvadex) is now the most widely prescribed cancer medication in the world. It generated revenues of US $265 million in 1992. By 1995, worldwide sales of Nolvadex reached $400 million. (7) And at AUD $90 for one month's supply, it doesn't come cheap (the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme covers $70).
Global sales of tamoxifen in 2001 were $1,024 million.[54] Since the expiration of the patent in 2002, it is now widely available as a generic drug around the world. Barr Labs Inc had challenged the patent (which in 1992 was ruled unenforcable) but later came to an agreement with Zeneca to licence the patent and sell tamoxifen at close to Zeneca's price.[55] As of 2004, tamoxifen was the world's largest selling hormonal drug on record and off record may be the number 1 selling drug in word of all time to date. So we are truly talking about billions in revenue world wide for drug companies,sources,ug's and more. Money is at the root of this drug and why its so heavily pushed on all forums by everyone. Its cheap to make and it brings in billions plain and simple.

These numbers are nothing compared to what this drug now makes for the drug companies,'s selling it. So you can bet your life they will make sure every test and study in the world is published to make sure its seen in a good light. This not even including its "off label use" Ie all us men using it for on cycle and pct. The use of the drug for this reason triples its sales and you can just emagen the amount of money its making. You do the math my friends!. At this very moment 500000000 sources and people with monitary ties to this drug are out there pushing like crazy to make sure you and everyone else keeps its use for pct alive. This is the #1 reason why we have not given up on this years ago.

Tamoxifen was developed by UK-based Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI), one of the world's largest multinational chemical corporations. Zeneca, an ICI subsidiary, is responsible for manufacturing and marketing the hormone and is now the world's largest cancer-drug company.
It wasn't long before laboratory studies showed that tamoxifen acted as a carcinogen. It has been found that tamoxifen binds tightly and irreversibly to DNA, the genetic blueprint of a cell, causing a cancerous mutation to take place. Even Australia's conservative National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC) warned that no amount of tamoxifen is safe when it comes to carcinogenic effects.

In California there is a law called "Proposition 65" that requires the state to publish and maintain a list of all known carcinogens. In May 1995, the state's Carcinogen Identification Committee voted unanimously to add tamoxifen to its list.

When research is done on anti-cancer drugs (such as SERMs), the aim is to find a drug that prolongs life, with the least amount of acute side-effects. In other words, the goal isn’t so much about finding a cure, as it is finding something that can alleviate the symptoms and/or prolong life.

When it comes to steroid users so many are willing to forgo any and everything to get the one simple effect they desire (recovery). The popularity of these drugs stems from the popular advice to use these drugs for everything from testosterone recovery.bitch tits,make your dick grow bigger, increase the amount of jiz you drop on a girls face, and everything in between. Advice on its use is handed out like candy and everyones got a sweat tooth for quick advice. Of course many "vets and so called know it alls" defend it to the death and it can do no wrong. Mainly do to not wanting to be wrong,habit,they got money involved with it, or just for the sake of argument.

“Its FDA approved for cancer treatment. It must be safe!”

It’s wrong to assume that an “FDA approved” drug has a proven safety profile. The FDA has continually issued stronger health warnings for tamoxifen over the years. For instance, in 1994 the FDA demanded that the tamoxifen manufacturer Zeneca (an ICI sub-division), issue warning letters to health care practitioners about the increased risk of endometrial and gastro-intestinal cancers with tamoxifen use. Zeneca also reported adverse effects similar to those seen with DES, such as reproductive abnormalities in the animals whose mothers received tamoxifen. (remember, DES was the original synthetic estrogen, and also an analog to tamoxifen)

A number of cancer researchers have pointed out the health risks too, such as Elwood et al (6) -

“[Tamoxifen], therefore, is not appropriate for use in the general population because of the known increased risk of endometrial cancer”

What Are Side Effects Of Temoxifen

You Can Get Blood Clots!

Have you any idea that a regular dosage of Tamoxifen can actually increase the chances of blood clots? Well, this is a true fact and can be fatal for those who are using this drug to get rid or avoid the chance of getting Gyno on cycle and or for pct. According to recent medical studies, it has been noticed that people who have been using Tamoxifen on a regular basis have had a substantial increase in terms of their blood clots. Hence, as compared to those people who are not using this drug, their chances of getting blood clots is relatively higher.

A blood clot can be defined as an internal body mechanism by which the cut can be stopped from bleeding excessively. The proteins present in your blood work along with the platelets and in a bid to form a clot. This is also termed as coagulation. In the event of an injury, this can prove to be really very effective as it would stop the flow of blood from your wound and thus save your life. Nonetheless, if the blood clots while it is moving through your body, it can prove fatal. This is also termed as hyper coagulation and it can prove very dangerous for the concerned individual. Tamoxifen has been known to cause hyper coagulation and hence, it needs to be taken under strict medical supervision.

When the study was conducted, it was ascertained that a relatively large number of people developed this conditions and although not many people using this drug were actually studied, those that were using it regularly, were in a shock to find out that it also led to blood clots.

Hence, although this drug is helpful to a certain extent, we need to also see that the extent of damage it can do to our body in terms of hazardous blood clots are much more and hence, you as a steroid user need to exercise caution and spend some quality time researching on this so called ‘wonder-drug’ before making it an eminent part of your daily routine and or pct.

One of the main reasons why a blood clot is considered dangerous is because this drug causes a clot inside the blood vessel which in turn is known as thrombus. What happens is that at times this blood clot can travel through your blood streams and get pushed into your lungs. When this happens, you can be rest assured that your life is in acute danger as this condition is life threatening. This condition is also known as pulmonary embolus. Similarly, a clot this clot can also block the blood vessels in the brain and this in turn may lead to a stroke. When this blood clot clocks the blood vessels of your heart, it stops the blood from rushing to your heart area thereby reducing the oxygen supply to that area. This in turn leads to cardiac arrest.

All the above mentioned conditions arising from blood clots, which in turn are caused from a regular intake of Tamoxifen, can prove to be life threatening for the concerned individual. Hence, even before you decide to take this medication on a regular basis, you need to exercise caution and be prepared to face the ill effects of this so called ‘wonder-drug’.

Increased susceptibility to gyno -

Tamoxifen is often used to combat gyno during cycle when “flare ups” occur. While tamoxifen may provide immediate inhibition of proliferation, and serve as valuable tool, it can actually increase future susceptibility to gyno.

This is caused by tamoxifen’s ability to up-regulate the progesterone receptor. (54-56) This can dramatically increase the chances of developing gyno in future cycles when utilizing progestin based anabolics such as Nandrolone (Deca) or Trenbolone (or any pro-hormone acting upon the progesterone receptor).

It is interesting to speculate. Is tamoxifen use directly related to the increased gyno occurrences seen with modern day steroid users?

You Can Develop Cataract!

Cataract can be defined as a thin white layer of membrane which blocks the passing light to the retina thereby clouding your vision. Although it is relatively painless, it does cloud your vision and can even blind you if it is not removed through the means of a surgical procedure. The retina is ideally a nerve layer which is located at the back of the eye socket and its main purpose is to direct the light which is entering the eye via the means of electromagnetic signals to the brain. Once the brain receives these nerve signals, it is passed on to the nervous system, after which you can transform your vision into clear moving pictures. If this thin layer of membrane is blocked owing to any reason, you would have problems with your vision.

While aging is looked on as the major cause behind cataract, it has recently been noticed that patients using Tamoxifen have been identified as ones susceptible to cataract on a regular basis. people who are aging and using this drug on a regular basis are on a higher risk of contracting cataract as compared to those who are not using Tamoxifen. The other eye problems that can be faced by individuals include scarring of the corneal area and abrupt retinal changes.

In case you are using this drug regularly and you have a cloudy, fuzzy or foggy vision, you need to get your eyesight checked with immediate effect. In case you are unable to withstand the glare of lamps and are unable to catch a glimpse of the morning sun, then again you need to get your eyes checked. This is so because, Temoxifen has a natural tendency to obstruct the normal eye vision and if you do suffer from this symptom, you may not be able to drive at night as the headlamps of the opposing vehicle may blind you momentarily.

In order to get rid of cataract that has been developed owing to a continuous intake of Temoxifen, you may need to undergo a corrective surgery. In case you want to delay a surgical procedure, you may want to light up your room with plenty of tubes and bulbs and keep your eyeglass up to date with the latest prescription. Ideally, the only known cure for cataract that has been a resultant of Temoxifen is a surgical procedure.

If you would like to avoid this problem, you would have to seek an alternative to Temoxifen at the earliest given opportunity.

Libido reduction & erectile dysfunction
Erectile dysfunction ow libido, and general impotence are typical complaints from men recently discontinuing steroids or HRT therapy, which is often combated by Clomid or Nolvadex, paradoxically so.

Regardless of any positive effects on fertility or testosterone levels, Clomid and Nolvadex use is highly correlated with erectile dysfunction, libido suppression, and even emotional disorders Research with male breast cancer patients has also reported decreased libido, and thrombosis associated with tamoxifen use. he thrombotic effect (blood vessel clogging) could explain the mechanism by which SERMs may inhibit erectile function, by reducing circulation to erectile tissue (as discussed before)

Nolva/clomid both raise shbg.
This is something I do not see a lot of people disusing so I I wanted to make it well know. Just do a web search on TAMOXIFEN,clomid or nolva raises shbg or any variation and you will get all the studies and prof you need.
Trait Anxiety and Tamoxifen Effects on Bone Mineral Density and Sex Hormone- Binding Globulin -- Cameron et al. 64 (4): 612 -- Psychosomatic Medicine
iHOP - Information Hyperlinked over Proteins [ SHBG ]
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin in Clinical Perspective; Acta Obstetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica - 66(3):pages 255-262 - Informa Healthcare
Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

2. Nolva lowers Igf-1 Again just a simple search on (TAMOXIFEN or nolva lowers IGF 1 and walla you got all the prof you need.

In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute
Effect of low dose tamoxifen on the insulin-like growth factor system in healthy women
Comparison of Tamoxifen and Testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone-IGF-I Axis -- Fitts et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology

They can cause Major triglyceride and glucose problems and even to the point of Severe hypertriglyceridemia or also Pancreatitis

Severe hypertriglyceridemia caused by tamoxifen-tr... [Endocr J. 1997] - PubMed result
Tamoxifen-induced hypertriglyceridemia in association with diabetes mellitus - EM|consulte
SpringerLink - Journal Article
Capecitabine-Induced Severe Hypertriglyceridemia: Report of Two Cases -- Kurt et al. 40 (2): 328 -- The Annals of Pharmacotherapy
Elsevier: Article Locator
Estrogen and Triglycerides
WikiGenes - Hypertriglyceridemia

A word on clomiphene (Clomid) –

Clomiphene (Clomid) consists of two stereoisomers which possess radically different pharmacodynamics. Zuclomiphene has predominantly estrogenic effects and slow clearance while the enclomiphene isomer has predominately anti-estrogenic effects and quick clearance. his creates a divergent effects between estrogen blockage and estrogen stimulation and an acute imbalance once Clomid administration is discontinued. Bodybuilders will often complain of “estrogenic rebound” after stopping Clomid, which could be attributed to the lingering estrogenic isomer zuclomiphene as the anti-estrogenic enclomiphene has long cleared the system. (Recently, enclomiphene has been isolated by the pharmaceutical company Repros, for use in Androxal™.)

For all intents and purposes, tamoxifen is a superior SERM, simply for the fact that tamoxifen provides a purely anti-estrogenic isomer, whereas Clomid provides a mix of anti and pro estrogenic effects.

In regards to the health consequences about to be listed, it can be safely assumed that Clomid will share similar detrimental effects as tamoxifen, since it shares the same triphenylethylene backbone and carcinogenic tendencies.

One of the main reasons why people make use of Clomid is for the purpose of recovering their bodies after a steroid cycle In simple words, this drug is mainly used in the form of post cycle therapy. Clomid has the actual potential to stimulate the production of hypothalamus which in turn would release a particular kind of hormone called gonadotrophic hormones. This hormone has the natural ability to allow the human testicles to secrete testosterone, which in turn would bring the depleting levels of testosterone in the body to its permissible levels. When this is achieved, the human body would stop losing its muscle mass in a natural way. Reacovery of test production is the gaols at any cost is the common thought.

Its a known fact that both clomid and nolvadex cause some really messed up mood swings.
Clomid/nolva have been known to cause severe mood swings in users and it has apparently been noticed that anyone who has been making use of Clomid/nolva have suffered from such side effects on a regular basis. Many users have categorically complained that the use of Clomid has been considered as the worst side effect that they have suffered so far. A few features of mood swings may include a change in the usual behaviour, tearful behaviour, excessive depression, anxiety and extremely sensitive in nature. Stop acting like you don't know what I am talking about. We all know its true.

Liver cancer -

Originally, tamoxifen was accepted as being non-toxic to the human liver upon finding that tamoxifen did not cause noticeable liver damage (DNA adducts) during short-term test tube studies with human liver cells.

However, it became apparent that test tube research was largely flawed due to the low rate of metabolism in such a superficial environment. It was soon discovered that the hepatotoxic effects from tamoxifen stem from the metabolism and buildup of the a-hydroxytamoxifen and N-desmethyltamoxifen metabolites, which would only appear in an in vivo environment. Surely enough, the results from the original rat studies showing dramatic carcinogenic effects on the liver, soon correlated with human data when researchers found the same type of liver DNA adducts in tamoxifen patients.

More recent human research has reported tamoxifen treated women to have 3x the risk of developing fatty liver disease, which occurs as soon as 3 months into therapy at only 20mg/day. In some cases, the disease lasts up to 3 years, despite cessation of tamoxifen therapy. Five and ten year follow-ups with patients on long term tamoxifen therapy show cases of deadly hepatocellular carcinoma.

In 2002, a bizarre study examined the use of tamoxifen for hepatocellular carcinoma treatment in humans. It was assumed that since tamoxifen could inhibit proliferation of breast cancer, it could offer the same benefit for liver cancer. The devastating results could not have been more indicative of tamoxifen’s hepatotoxic nature, as the tamoxifen treatment significantly increased the rate of death, compared to the group not receiving tamoxifen.

Finally, in a case study reviewing tamoxifen induced liver disease; D.F Moffat et al made a profound statement –

“Hepatocellular carcinoma in tamoxifen treated patients may be under-reported since there may be reluctance to biopsy liver tumours which are assumed to be secondary carcinoma of the breast.” In other words, it appears that liver carcinomas from a large number of breast cancer patients on tamoxifen therapy have been misdiagnosed as an infection from the breast cancer itself.

Although tamoxifen induced liver cancer may take years to manifest in a healthy male, its damaging effects could easily be exaggerated by other popular hepatotoxic drugs, such as 17aa oral steroids.

Finely Let us lay out the cycle as I would plan it for you my friend.

1-10 test-e 500mg every week
1-10 Provirone 25mg morning noon and night.
6-10 hcgenerate 5 caps every day
10-14 unleashed and post cycle 3 caps every day
10-16 forma-stanzol 5 pumps am and pm (suicide aromatase inhibitor)
16-20 bridge 3 caps every day
20-and all the way till next cycle Sarms s-4 25mg twice a day..

Supporting information for why I lay the cycle and pct out the way I have can be found in the Pct thread at the top of my reply. For each product we can also read the following.


1st Cycle. Beastdrol - Page 3
Hate on it if you want but forma-stanzol works for pct!!!
explanation of how it works from me ^^^

Forma-Stanzol: Transdermal Formestane.. 6000mg per bottle. Nuff said.
reviews ^^

Superior FORMESTANE Product? CEL Formestane vs MrSupps Forma-Stanzol - Forums
A debate where I had to pound the hell out of some so called know it all's who knew very little^^^^

Info on forma proving its worth
Formastane info
human use of transdermal formastane
Use of 4-hydroxytestosterone to lower estrogen levels in humans - Llewellyn, William Charles

Author L. Rea Management of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Side Effects with formastane
Management of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroid Side Effects by Author L Rea

transdermal drug use explanation
Molecular Interventions - CLOCKSS

rate to human dosing

Divergent Effects of the Antiestrogen Tamoxifen and of Estrogens on Luteinzing Hormone (LH) Pulse Frequency, But Not on Basal LH Levels and LH Pulse Amplitude in Men
This is for the people saying estrogen is needed during pct ^^^^more retardation that you may see on some forums that I have had to refute many times. ^^^^

Now for a study backing up Hcgenerate use during a cycle
- Need To Build Muscle Inc. Official Blog
You wont get ripped off tren or winny unless your diet is spot on, with a good diet test only would give you a really good kick no need for more compounds on your first run

Pain is temporary, glory is forever!

I beg to differ I know this is terrible advice but I ran tren on my first ever cycle and yes holy god the sides were epic my mind and body were fucked. All this aside I had a pretty shitty diet and no cardio and was vascular and ripped in no time. I wish I actually dieted and did cardio Lord knows how great that could have been. Now mind you I did take in 200+ grams of protein and trained really hard I was about 14% to start and anded 8 or 9 %.
I don't endorse running Tren as it will kill your sex drive in some people as long as a yr,esp for a newb
get the diet in order if you wanna see some abs
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