Tension time is most important for bodybuilders?

[str8cubano]

Curently taking exercise phyisology, and my professor has been training athletes and powerlifters for years now. He mentioned that for size, the bodybuilder is more concenred with tension time than powerlifting. I usually rest a lot between sets as I have become accustomed to it. But the more time the muscle is under tension, the more muscle fibers we recuit and thus more likely to cause Hypotrophy. I always used to max out and it has worked for a while, but I have the mentality that I feel that If i can't lift heavy, I won't get big. I can care less about benching 300lbs if benching with less weight will produce better results.

In any cause, I want to have less rest inbetween sets. I usually rest 2-3 mintues inbetween sets, sometimes even 5 minutes when Getting extremly heavvy say in the low row or bench press. But I've found that due to lactic acid buildup (and cardiovascular reasons) its tough to rest 45 seconds inbetween sets, especially if I expect to lift heavier and more reps. What do you guys think from expereince? Better to rest less inbetween sets and lift less weight, or rest more and have more time to rest to lift heavier. Again, this is with the theory that powerlifters want to rest and lift heavy, but bodybuilders want maximum tension time..

 

[rick_hfh]

I met an old school bodybuilder that said TUT "Time under tension" was the key to building muscle. He was huge back in his day and was on the cover of magazines in the 70's. TUT is what he used to get huge. What I think your professor was describing was the amount of time with the muscle under the tension of the weight. Not the amount of rest between sets. I have experimented with both shorter rest periods, and length of sets. I do not think either gave greater results than regular lifting.

For the shorter rest periods, I went as low as 30 seconds for smaller groups. Also 45 sec-minute and a half for larger groups. The pumps were great but strength was down during sets. From what I have read, your muscles will recover as much as they are going to, in about 2-3 minutes from a set. So I figured that if I cut rest down it would push the muscles past usual exhaustion. I gave it a shot for about 2 months on basic lifts like, bench curls and shoulder presses. From my experience, it wasn't the answer I was looking for.

I also experimented with TUT abit also. After seeing pics of the guy in his prime I gave TUT a shot. From what I have read, and what I have been told that 45 sec - over a minute, was needed to casue hypertrophy. After my experience, I do not think that TUT was worth my time. Either way don't let my experience stop you from trying it. I have experimented with most tangibles. From what I have learned, diet is more important thing for growth.

 

[str8cubano]

I have experimented with most tangibles. From what I have learned, diet is more important thing for growth.

and steroids

 

[rick_hfh]

LOL, that doesn't hurt either. Even with aas you can't grow without enough food. It works great for Scott Steiner. Fukn Freak.

 

[Kouta]

LOL, that doesn't hurt either. Even with aas you can't grow without enough food. It works great for Scott Steiner. Fukn Freak.

for bodybuilders i would first worry about just getting stronger. You can do super slow exercises all day but if your as weak as piss they arn't going to be doing much.

First build a base by getting strong in the main exercises then if BB is your choice experiment with things like TUT later on. Most people find that by just getting stonger they reach there size goals anyway.

 

[Protobuilder]

Why not do both? Heavy weights, longer rests, for tension work. Followed by, or on a different day, lighter weights w/ shorter rests, for metabolic work.

 

[rick_hfh]

Time under tension has nothing to do with rest periods between sets. It is the time the muscle is under the load of the weight.

 

[silver_shadow]

let me quote someone here - scroll right down to know who it is.

"Everybody want to be a bodybuilder but don't nobody want to lift no heavy ass weights!"













































































-- ronnie coleman

 

[blut wump]

Anthrax Invasion had a good link on here but I've lost it.

Basically, the way that muscle fibres work is that as many will be recruited to perform the task that you demand of them as are needed. When you work high repetitions or deliberately go for TUT then what you are doing is causing muscle fibres to fail. As they fail, more will be recruited to do the job. Eventually, 'pump' and acid build-up kick in and cause you to stop before you do yourself harm.

When you lift a heavy weight. The same thing happens; as many fibres are recruited to perform the task as are necessary. The upside is that you aren't draining the CNS sending twitches of current to spent fibres. Lots of nerve bundles fire to lift the weight and many fibres are worked in that short, heavy set. There is evidence that low reps can be more effective for building muscle than high reps. The difficulty lies in learning how to exert yourself, pretty much in line with the Coleman quote.

Holding tension for a long while will result in increased blood flow and a resulting engorging of the muscle. This will result in swelling and pump. Majutsu posted once about experiments done on rats involving veinous occlusion that indicated there is some evidence that this swelling can lead to larger muscles but healing will take care of it given time.

 

[silver_shadow]

Anthrax Invasion had a good link on here but I've lost it.

Basically, the way that muscle fibres work is that as many will be recruited to perform the task that you demand of them as are needed. When you work high repetitions or deliberately go for TUT then what you are doing is causing muscle fibres to fail. As they fail, more will be recruited to do the job. Eventually, 'pump' and acid build-up kick in and cause you to stop before you do yourself harm.

When you lift a heavy weight. The same thing happens; as many fibres are recruited to perform the task as are necessary. The upside is that you aren't draining the CNS sending twitches of current to spent fibres. Lots of nerve bundles fire to lift the weight and many fibres are worked in that short, heavy set. There is evidence that low reps can be more effective for building muscle than high reps. The difficulty lies in learning how to exert yourself, pretty much in line with the Coleman quote.

Holding tension for a long while will result in increased blood flow and a resulting engorging of the muscle. This will result in swelling and pump. Majutsu posted once about experiments done on rats involving veinous occlusion that indicated there is some evidence that this swelling can lead to larger muscles but healing will take care of it given time.

speaking about how many fibres are recruited to perform a lift - WSB (or for that matter any PL routine with speed training) has dynamic effort training as a necessary part. in this you'd perform 9 sets of 2 of squats (at ~ 50-60% of 1RM) and 9 sets of 3 of flat bench (at ~ 50% of 1RM). you'd perform this with strict form and attempting to move the bar as fast as possible - that is attempt to move a sub maximal wt with maximal force. the point of doing that is to train the body to fire as many fibres as possible to lift any wt. hence, a novice lifter can lift quite a few sets of sub maximal wts whereas an advanced lifter will be busted much sooner. so when presented with a PR lift, the advanced lifter is in a position to be successful.

 

[BiggT]

I'll give my opinion on TUT. This is just from my own personal experience. I don't put stock into studies performed on previously untrained 18 year olds or experiments with electrodes hooked up to people doing lat pulldowns.

When it comes to hypertrophy, I feel load is king, and progressively heavy training is optimal for hypertrophy of a natural trainee. Sets/Reps are way overrated, they do not matter as long as you're out of a heavily neural rep range (anything above max triples, really). The body isn't as smart as everybody gives it credit for. It can't count, and it can't tell time, it only recognizes work. It also doesn't get 'shocked', it simply responds to something that it was forced to do despite being unconditioned for the task. TUT has some validity, but I think it would best be talked about in terms of total workload or volume (work done)....I feel that sacrificing load and progress in order to take 10 seconds to do a bench press rep is not a very good idea (and for athletes it is a death curse, but thats another topic).

When you throw in AAS, you've got a new wrench in the argument. In terms of performance, training is still king, but in terms of physique, training takes a back seat as even the SHITTIEST, most inefficient, most idiotic training stimulus and "routine" will spark growth in most people who take enough drugs. This is where modern bodybuilding gets the "diet is 95%" thing. You have guys (and ladies too) running around with the testosterone levels of 50 teenage boys, so moronic training will be enough stimulus for incredible growth, then it is as simple as eaing for your goals.

But, to give my opinion, I think load and progression are far more important for hypertrophy than TUT.

 

[Tweakle]

everything takes a backseat to genetics. You can only develop into the best you, training 'for size' won't work shit if you have average genetics.

heavy training and always trying to get the weights up is a way better idea for the skinny white guy looking to add some size, it's when people think they can win the Olympia if they just find that magic hypertrophy routine that problems start...

 

[Big_Joe]

Curently taking exercise phyisology, and my professor has been training athletes and powerlifters for years now. He mentioned that for size, the bodybuilder is more concenred with tension time than powerlifting. I usually rest a lot between sets as I have become accustomed to it. But the more time the muscle is under tension, the more muscle fibers we recuit and thus more likely to cause Hypotrophy. I always used to max out and it has worked for a while, but I have the mentality that I feel that If i can't lift heavy, I won't get big. I can care less about benching 300lbs if benching with less weight will produce better results.

In any cause, I want to have less rest inbetween sets. I usually rest 2-3 mintues inbetween sets, sometimes even 5 minutes when Getting extremly heavvy say in the low row or bench press. But I've found that due to lactic acid buildup (and cardiovascular reasons) its tough to rest 45 seconds inbetween sets, especially if I expect to lift heavier and more reps. What do you guys think from expereince? Better to rest less inbetween sets and lift less weight, or rest more and have more time to rest to lift heavier. Again, this is with the theory that powerlifters want to rest and lift heavy, but bodybuilders want maximum tension time..

If you want to use time under tension you shouldn't go to lockout. When you go to lockout you shift the load from the muscles to the bones. Stop the weight just before your joints lockout and tighten the muscles that you are working. Hold them in the loaded and tensed condition for a few seconds on each rep. Then repeat. If you are eating right and enough this will make you grow. Remember it's not about lifting a weight it's about working the muscles.

As for resting between sets let your heart rate and breathing tell you if you have had enough rest. If your heart rate is still up and you are huffing and puffing like a train then you need more rest. If your heart beat is back to normal and your bearthing is normal do another set. Pay attension to your body not the clock on the wall.

 

[blut wump]

It's not about how much weight is on the bar, it's about how the set feels. You have to make a mental connection with the muscle and feel it working. Don't let your ego get involved in your workout and use only enough weight that you can feel the muscle. Work it until you get a pump and then push it through the pain for a real high intensity workout. If you get it right, you can grow to your maximum potential on just one set a week.

j/k

Lift progressively and rest enough that you can make your sets.

 

[Protobuilder]

Ah yes, wanking. I hate wanking. I used to like it. Now I don’t.

BW – you really had me going there. I was like, WTF?!? LoL

My take: basically what BW said above. You need a blend of TUT and max tension (generated through weight on the bar). Go too far in either direction and you get crappy size results, in general. E.g., you could lift 5 pounds and do 500 reps . . . helluva’ lot of TUT . . . which amounts to jack crap. Or, pick 95% of your max, do one rep . . . not much TUT, and probably not a lot of size gains, again, “generally speaking.”

It’s not rocket science. Do heavy tension work (heavy weights) AND some TUT/metabolic work (higher reps cause hormonal release, generate LA, deplete glycogen, etc. all of which may lead to hypertrophy). How you structure it is up to you. Note that WSBB basically does this: ME days (tension), RE days (TUT/metabolic work), and some DE work. Most old programs did this as well, doing something like (light bulb!) 5 heavy sets of 5 followed by 2-3 lighter sets of 10-12. So long as you’re in the middle of the spectrum, you’ll be fine. Again, the thing that matters most in the long run is . . . you guessed it: progressive training (getting stronger, adding more and more weight to the bar in a non-stupid rep range).

 

[BiggT]

Ah yes, wanking. I hate wanking. I used to like it. Now I don’t.

BW – you really had me going there. I was like, WTF?!? LoL

My take: basically what BW said above. You need a blend of TUT and max tension (generated through weight on the bar). Go too far in either direction and you get crappy size results, in general. E.g., you could lift 5 pounds and do 500 reps . . . helluva’ lot of TUT . . . which amounts to jack crap. Or, pick 95% of your max, do one rep . . . not much TUT, and probably not a lot of size gains, again, “generally speaking.”

It’s not rocket science. Do heavy tension work (heavy weights) AND some TUT/metabolic work (higher reps cause hormonal release, generate LA, deplete glycogen, etc. all of which may lead to hypertrophy). How you structure it is up to you. Note that WSBB basically does this: ME days (tension), RE days (TUT/metabolic work), and some DE work. Most old programs did this as well, doing something like (light bulb!) 5 heavy sets of 5 followed by 2-3 lighter sets of 10-12. So long as you’re in the middle of the spectrum, you’ll be fine. Again, the thing that matters most in the long run is . . . you guessed it: progressive training (getting stronger, adding more and more weight to the bar in a non-stupid rep range).

Dude, you forgot the most important part, you have to take AMPLIFY02, nobody can expect to put on size without it.

 

[Protobuilder]

I forgot to mention, you can't make gains w/out Amplify02. Or you can wait until next year and just buy Amplify03, which inevitably you won't be able to gain without.

 

[fortunatesun]

My plat search isn't working right so I couldn't find the thread Blut was referring to. I found this one instead:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-213558.html

Rest between sets, or intensity, can be indirectly linked to TUT. If the concept is clear in your mind as to what you're trying to acheive, I don't see it as mandatory that you unnecessarily complicate your workout strategy with various categories. As Protobuilder noted, the concept of combining rest times is one method that is used. Westside Barbell, for instance, has a basic guideline: 2 min. or more for strength, 90 seconds for hypertrophy oriented assistance.

Lactic acid build-up actually decreases as your body acclimates itself to the change of pace.

 

[str8cubano]

Thanks for your opinons and experience bros.

 

[coolcolj]

do the opposite of what someone will do for relative strength training

someone like that will tend to want to keep the sets under 10 seconds, have long rest periods, and don't bother controlling the eccentric too much, and have fairly low volume of work etc