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Switching flax oil to olive oil?
- Thread starter Shinobi
- Start date
frankenfurter
New member
Who told you that about too much omega 3? Just curious as I have never heard that myself.
damn! I have up to 15 tbsp per day sometimes. I`d like to know that answer too.
Millie
New member
flax oil is rich in omega 3 fatty acids but not omega 6 FA's. in order to receive the full benefits of EFA's they should be taken in the right proportions, i.e. omega 6 : omega 3 should be in the ratios of 2:1 or 3:1.
so it all depends on the rest of your diet and how rich it is in omega 6 FA's.
here is a quote from Udo Erasmus of this topic:
"Christian Finn: Didn't you used to recommend using flax oil?
Udo Erasmus: I did, and then I became n-6 deficient. I got dry eyes, skipped heartbeats, arthritis-like pains in joints and thin papery skin. And now there's also some research that shows when n-3's go too high and n-6's too low you get compromised immune function. There's also a correlation with increased cancer.
At this point, prostate cancer is getting the most attention. So flax will help with cancer at the beginning, but long term - if you use it exclusively - it can actually be counter productive. The research is just beginning in that area. And now I'm seeing people with eczema-like symptoms; another symptom of n-6 deficiency, after using flax oil for a long time."
you can read the whole interview here:
http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/articles/udoerasmus.htm
so it all depends on the rest of your diet and how rich it is in omega 6 FA's.
here is a quote from Udo Erasmus of this topic:
"Christian Finn: Didn't you used to recommend using flax oil?
Udo Erasmus: I did, and then I became n-6 deficient. I got dry eyes, skipped heartbeats, arthritis-like pains in joints and thin papery skin. And now there's also some research that shows when n-3's go too high and n-6's too low you get compromised immune function. There's also a correlation with increased cancer.
At this point, prostate cancer is getting the most attention. So flax will help with cancer at the beginning, but long term - if you use it exclusively - it can actually be counter productive. The research is just beginning in that area. And now I'm seeing people with eczema-like symptoms; another symptom of n-6 deficiency, after using flax oil for a long time."
you can read the whole interview here:
http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/articles/udoerasmus.htm
Last edited:
Millie
New member
just do some research on this. try either EF's search engine or google. this is not something new or some fad theory.
read the post by Mr. X from this thread:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=2010769#post2010769
read the post by Mr. X from this thread:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=2010769#post2010769
Originally from Mr. X's article:
"If a person has cancer, inflammatory conditions, or needs to lose weight, omega3 should be favored. Otherwise, an omega6 to omega3 ratio of between 2:1 and 3:1 is suitable."
This is very interesting to me. While there are many claims made empasizing the importance of a proper omega 6 : omega 3 ratio, we still see an emphasis on omega 3's for the purpose of weight loss. Any input on this?
"If a person has cancer, inflammatory conditions, or needs to lose weight, omega3 should be favored. Otherwise, an omega6 to omega3 ratio of between 2:1 and 3:1 is suitable."
This is very interesting to me. While there are many claims made empasizing the importance of a proper omega 6 : omega 3 ratio, we still see an emphasis on omega 3's for the purpose of weight loss. Any input on this?
Millie
New member
this is because the typical american diet is very high in omega 6 EFA's, with a typical ratio of O6:O3 of roughly 10:1. it is recommended that you increase your omega 3 intake and lower your omega 6 intake. for bb's this ratio is probably not that bad, more likely in the range of 5-6:1. so your EFA supplementation should depend on your overall fat intake. but it's very likely that it is lacking a bit in O3's.
Burning_Inside
Elite Mentor
Wannabebig: To be more specific, what role do w-3 and w-6 fatty acids play in terms of fat loss and metabolism?
Lyle M: Although you didn’t' really hear about it that much (well, until recently), the body has two essential fatty acids (EFA's), that is fatty acids that we can't make ourselves and that are required for life and health. That is, usually you always hear about essential amino acids, or essential vitamins and minerals, but rarely about fatty acids (note, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, just for the record).
Wannabebig: What? You mean those Krispy Kremes aren't essential to keeping us sane?
Lyle M: Not unless you want to become a fat mess. Now, it's usually been assumed that the high fat nature of the typical modern diet provided enough EFA's to at least avoid frank health problems. This may or may not be true. Modern diets are high fat, that's true; but they are really the wrong kinds of fat. The typical American diet is super high in saturated fats and trans-fatty acids, without a lot of essential fatty acids in the mix. Actually, that's not even true, we get many w-6 fatty acids in the diet. It's the w-3 that is the problem.
Actually, I should probably back up a little bit and define some terms. Dietary fatty acids come in two general categories: saturated (mainly in animal foods) and unsaturated (mainly in vegetable source foods).
Unsaturated fats are further divided into monounsaturated fats (such as olive oil) and polyunsaturated fats. It's the polyunsaturated fats that we're interested. Of the various kinds, two very important fats are alpha linolenic acid (w-3) and linoleic acid (w-6); these are the two essential fatty acids. By essential, I mean that they are required for health and life and cannot be made in the body. These two fatty acids are degraded (by various enzymes called desaturases) into other components. w-3 fatty acids eventually end up as eicosapentanoic acid (EPA) and docosahexanoic acid (DHA), which are the primary fatty acids, found in fish (and are usually called fish oils).
Now, most people think of fats as just something that gives energy, and ends up covering our abs but this is far from the case. Rather, fatty acids are incorporated into our cell membranes and even turn out to have a controlling hand in gene expression. This is where the real interest in w-3 and w-6 fatty acids comes in. With regards to fat loss, the main tissues we're interested in are muscle and liver. w-3 fatty acids (and especially fish oils) have been shown to have important effects in both tissues that are all conducive to fat loss. These include decreased fat storage in the fat cell (involving changes in enzyme levels as well as insulin receptor number) as well as increased fat burning in the muscle. This is where flax oil (which is high in w-3) and fish oils come into play, by providing sufficient w-3 during a diet; you improve the overall rate of fat loss (which also spare muscle). High dose w-3 also helps to control inflammation and some of the depression that occurs during dieting may be related to a w-3 deficiency; the list of benefits really goes on and on.
Ok, but what about w-6. It actually turns out that w-6 have effects in the body that aren't ideal in terms of fat loss, inflammation or any of the rest. To be more accurate, it looks like the ratio of w-6 to w-3 fatty acids is really the key player. The current modern diet has a super high ratio of w-6: w-3, something like 25:1. It's been estimated that our ancestral diet and what may be ideal is more like 4:1 to 1:1. Basically, we get excessively much w-6 and not nearly enough w-3.
Wannabebig: So what would you recommend for a bodybuilder?
Lyle M: Well, flax, (which is a mix of w-3 and w-6 but mainly w-6), straight fish oils (pure EPA/DHA) or something else. To a degree, it depends on the composition of the rest of the diet. Since, on average, most people get too much saturated fat and w-6, flax oil isn't a bad choice, it should help balance out the w-6: w-3 ratio. But, there is some concern about limited conversion of w-3 to the fish oils (which appear to really be the key players) and there is some enzyme competition between w-6 and w-3.
If I had to make the most general recommendation in terms of fatty acids for fat loss, it'd be a mix of olive oil (oleic acid, an w-9 with a neutral effect on fat cell metabolism) along with preformed fish oils (6-10X1 gram capsules per day). Actually, since I can't personally stand the taste of olive oil, I use high oleic safflower oil, which is mostly safflower. To that I add Now Brand Omega 3, 6X1 gram capsules per day (since I'm a little guy, a bigger person would use a higher dose).
Obviously some saturated fats are pretty much inevitable in any but the most restrictive diets but that'd be ideal in my mind. We actually have a significant storehouse of w-6 in our fat cells already (enough to last about a year or so) so there should be no real problem with deficiencies of w-6 over the length of the diet.
Wannabebig: Could you give us an example of how a blend of these fatty acids could be incorporated into a bodybuilders nutritional program?
Lyle M:To put that in real terms, for something like a 2000 cal/day diet, assuming 25% total fat, you've got 500 calories from fat, about 55 grams. 6-10 grams of that are fish oils, leaving about 45 grams, which would be three tablespoons of olive oil (goes well in blender drinks, on tuna, and on salad as dressing). You wouldn't want to follow that type of approach forever, but I think it'd be ideal for fat loss and the length of the average diet.
Lyle M: Although you didn’t' really hear about it that much (well, until recently), the body has two essential fatty acids (EFA's), that is fatty acids that we can't make ourselves and that are required for life and health. That is, usually you always hear about essential amino acids, or essential vitamins and minerals, but rarely about fatty acids (note, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, just for the record).
Wannabebig: What? You mean those Krispy Kremes aren't essential to keeping us sane?
Lyle M: Not unless you want to become a fat mess. Now, it's usually been assumed that the high fat nature of the typical modern diet provided enough EFA's to at least avoid frank health problems. This may or may not be true. Modern diets are high fat, that's true; but they are really the wrong kinds of fat. The typical American diet is super high in saturated fats and trans-fatty acids, without a lot of essential fatty acids in the mix. Actually, that's not even true, we get many w-6 fatty acids in the diet. It's the w-3 that is the problem.
Actually, I should probably back up a little bit and define some terms. Dietary fatty acids come in two general categories: saturated (mainly in animal foods) and unsaturated (mainly in vegetable source foods).
Unsaturated fats are further divided into monounsaturated fats (such as olive oil) and polyunsaturated fats. It's the polyunsaturated fats that we're interested. Of the various kinds, two very important fats are alpha linolenic acid (w-3) and linoleic acid (w-6); these are the two essential fatty acids. By essential, I mean that they are required for health and life and cannot be made in the body. These two fatty acids are degraded (by various enzymes called desaturases) into other components. w-3 fatty acids eventually end up as eicosapentanoic acid (EPA) and docosahexanoic acid (DHA), which are the primary fatty acids, found in fish (and are usually called fish oils).
Now, most people think of fats as just something that gives energy, and ends up covering our abs but this is far from the case. Rather, fatty acids are incorporated into our cell membranes and even turn out to have a controlling hand in gene expression. This is where the real interest in w-3 and w-6 fatty acids comes in. With regards to fat loss, the main tissues we're interested in are muscle and liver. w-3 fatty acids (and especially fish oils) have been shown to have important effects in both tissues that are all conducive to fat loss. These include decreased fat storage in the fat cell (involving changes in enzyme levels as well as insulin receptor number) as well as increased fat burning in the muscle. This is where flax oil (which is high in w-3) and fish oils come into play, by providing sufficient w-3 during a diet; you improve the overall rate of fat loss (which also spare muscle). High dose w-3 also helps to control inflammation and some of the depression that occurs during dieting may be related to a w-3 deficiency; the list of benefits really goes on and on.
Ok, but what about w-6. It actually turns out that w-6 have effects in the body that aren't ideal in terms of fat loss, inflammation or any of the rest. To be more accurate, it looks like the ratio of w-6 to w-3 fatty acids is really the key player. The current modern diet has a super high ratio of w-6: w-3, something like 25:1. It's been estimated that our ancestral diet and what may be ideal is more like 4:1 to 1:1. Basically, we get excessively much w-6 and not nearly enough w-3.
Wannabebig: So what would you recommend for a bodybuilder?
Lyle M: Well, flax, (which is a mix of w-3 and w-6 but mainly w-6), straight fish oils (pure EPA/DHA) or something else. To a degree, it depends on the composition of the rest of the diet. Since, on average, most people get too much saturated fat and w-6, flax oil isn't a bad choice, it should help balance out the w-6: w-3 ratio. But, there is some concern about limited conversion of w-3 to the fish oils (which appear to really be the key players) and there is some enzyme competition between w-6 and w-3.
If I had to make the most general recommendation in terms of fatty acids for fat loss, it'd be a mix of olive oil (oleic acid, an w-9 with a neutral effect on fat cell metabolism) along with preformed fish oils (6-10X1 gram capsules per day). Actually, since I can't personally stand the taste of olive oil, I use high oleic safflower oil, which is mostly safflower. To that I add Now Brand Omega 3, 6X1 gram capsules per day (since I'm a little guy, a bigger person would use a higher dose).
Obviously some saturated fats are pretty much inevitable in any but the most restrictive diets but that'd be ideal in my mind. We actually have a significant storehouse of w-6 in our fat cells already (enough to last about a year or so) so there should be no real problem with deficiencies of w-6 over the length of the diet.
Wannabebig: Could you give us an example of how a blend of these fatty acids could be incorporated into a bodybuilders nutritional program?
Lyle M:To put that in real terms, for something like a 2000 cal/day diet, assuming 25% total fat, you've got 500 calories from fat, about 55 grams. 6-10 grams of that are fish oils, leaving about 45 grams, which would be three tablespoons of olive oil (goes well in blender drinks, on tuna, and on salad as dressing). You wouldn't want to follow that type of approach forever, but I think it'd be ideal for fat loss and the length of the average diet.
