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Stefka -- Immigration question...

God, you are so wrong. I can't imagine making shit up and then spouting it off on the internet as if it were truth.

All children born in and subject, at the time of birth, to the jurisdiction of the United States acquire US citizenship at birth, even if the parents were in the US illegally. See U.S. v. Wong Kim, 169 U.S. 649 (1898). According to the Wong Kim court, “The 14th Amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign
sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. The Amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born within the territory of the United States, of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States."

Airspace above the land territory, internal waters, and territorial sea is considered to be part of the United States (Presidential Proclamation 5928, signed December 27, 1988, published at 54 Federal Register 777, January 9, 1989).

Persons born on ships located within U.S. internal waters are considered to have been born in the United States. Such persons will acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if they are subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. Internal waters include the ports, harbors, bays, and other enclosed areas of the sea along the U.S. coast. A child born on a foreign merchant ship or privately owned vessel in U.S. internal waters is considered as having been born subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. See Wong Kim, 169 US 649.

“The rules applicable to vessels obviously apply equally to airplanes. Thus a child born on a [private or commercial] plane in the United States or flying over its territory would acquire United States citizenship at birth.” Gordon, Immigration Law and Procedure, Part 8, Nationality and Citizenship, Chapter 92, 92.03 (New York: Matthew Bender, 2007).


The airspace question isn't even the difficult/interesting part of Plunkey's hypo. He's trying to get at the " enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory" exception. Although the birth-inducing terrorist is an enemy of the US, her actions are not sufficient to "occupy" the territory - she's just attacking, not technically occupying - and, thus, the child is still born in and subject to the jurisdiction of the US.

Nice try. The word "jurisdiction" is the tricky part. Even the United Nations disagrees with you on this. It depends on many factors including citizenship of parents, etc.

here, good reading:
HowStuffWorks "If a child is born on an airplane, what's his citizenship?"

c
 
Not true - US airspace counts as "subject to the jurisdiction of the US," which is what is required for jus soli citizenship.
Seriously dude, just stop trying.

"subject to the jurisdiction of the US" not equal to "automatic citizenship"

and the match goes to...
bakemeacookie

agreed


but, not due to any pretense of understanding international law ... primarily just for general principles of disagreeing with Plunkey
 
"subject to the jurisdiction of the US" not equal to "automatic citizenship"


Yes it does. The exact holding of U.S. v. Wong Kim, 169 U.S. 649 is that all children born in and subject, at the time of birth, to the jurisdiction of the United States acquire US citizenship at birth. Read the friggin case before arguing about crap you don't understand.
 
Um, nice try, but even with google, you're still wrong. Plunkey's hypo is when the child is born over US airspace. US airspace is under the jurisdiction of the US. For US citizenship, the citizenship of the child's parents only matters if the child is not born on land/sea/air that is not subject to the jurisdiction of the US. The birth in your article does not occur over US airspace.

did u even read the article? jurisdiction != us citizenship. One day you'll get it. I hope.

c
 
Nice try. The word "jurisdiction" is the tricky part. Even the United Nations disagrees with you on this. It depends on many factors including citizenship of parents, etc.

here, good reading:
HowStuffWorks "If a child is born on an airplane, what's his citizenship?"

c

Um, nice try, but even with google, you're still wrong. Plunkey's hypo is when the child is born over US airspace. US airspace is under the jurisdiction of the US. For US citizenship, the citizenship of the child's parents only matters if the child is not born on land/sea/air that is subject to the jurisdiction of the US. The birth in your article does not occur over US airspace.

Further, the US is not a party to the U.N. Convention on Reduction of Statelessness (1961) (which your article also references). Article 3 of the Convention does not apply to the United States. Article 3 provides “For the purpose of determining the obligations of Contracting States under this Convention, birth on a ship or in an aircraft shall be deemed to have taken place in the territory of the State whose flag the ship flies or in the territory of the State in which the aircraft is registered, as the case may be.”

So please, just go back to your celebrity gossip. You still suck at law.
 
Last edited:
did u even read the article? jurisdiction != us citizenship. One day you'll get it. I hope.

c

Did you even read the case I cited? Pretty sure the US Supreme Court is a higher authority than howstuffworks.com.

And yes, I did read the article. The child was not born over US airspace, so that leaves all sorts of variables. If the child were born over US airspace (aboard a commercial or private plane), it would have US citizenship - no question.
 
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