Staying on all year? Input.

[Slider]

Ok if you where to stay on AS all the time or lets just say you would only take off an average of 1 month after a 12wk cycle and during the winter seasons just want to keep test moderate for about 4-8wks what would you take? And dose?
Also after each cycle I still would run clomid by itself during the 4wks of not cycling anything.

Thanks in advance for input. For you all Karma.

Slider

 

[solidspine]

I guess growth and test, amount don't ask me:

I do everything to excess.

 

[The Terminator]

There isn't anything I would take all year long.

 

[Disposable_Hero]

I'm considering going on EQ for an extended period of time, I read a while back that someone was on 400mg/week for a year and saw slow steady gains all year long..

D_H

 

[The Terminator]

Some masochist actually voted for suspension....geez

 

[Slider]

Bump,
for more Karma.

 

[ironmaster]

I'm with solidspine.........in fact, I been on for so many years, I forget how long. Then again, my friend, who wins a lot of shows cycles on and off everything but eq.......he's been on good old ganabol for like 5 years.

 

[G ChildlihC G]

Damn, can't say that I would stay on anything year round, but if it was something it would be HGH.

 

[Pineapple Devil]

I'd say probably the test

 

[needsize]

I'm with solidspine.........in fact, I been on for so many years, I forget how long. Then again, my friend, who wins a lot of shows cycles on and off everything but eq.......he's been on good old ganabol for like 5 years.

Does your friend use hcg or anything else in between heavy periods to keep his nuts from going south forever?

 

[HansNZ]

A long acting testosterone like sustanon definitely. Your body doesn't attenuate to testosterone like it does to steroids. Testosterone is easy on your system and non-toxic. Definitely the best choice.

If the human body didn't attenuate to primobolan (like it does to all steroids), i'd take primo all year round instead so that my HPTA stayed in operation.

Perhaps another option would be 12 weeks of primo then 6-8 weeks of oxandrolone, then 12 weeks of primo, etc, etc.

 

[HansNZ]

Does your friend use hcg or anything else in between heavy periods to keep his nuts from going south forever?

From what I have read HCG use is often what is responsible for permanently reduced HPTA after steroid use is complete.

 

[HansNZ]

It's interesting that so many people nominate testosterone on here. After I am finished with full-time steroid use I am planning on taking one andriol tab (oral testosterone) every morning permanently from that time on.

 

[ironmaster]

No, Gchild......I wouldn't recommend test year round to anyone else either, but solidspine and I are both over 50 years old. My nuts were toast long ago, and I just plan to stay on HRT for life. NOT FOR YOUNG GUYS. I already have all the children I plan to have, am set in a longterm marriage with a woman who understands, and have accepted the health risks.
I never would advise this for ohers.

 

[monkeyballs]

From what I have read HCG use is often what is responsible for permanently reduced HPTA after steroid use is complete.

Permanent reduction of HPTA function?
I've never heard this.
Can you site your source on this one bro? I'd like to read up on this since I'm considering HCG and Femara (and possibly even Novla) for my next cycle recovery phase.

For what its worth, I'd say that the safest bet for someone to stay on year round (provided your old enough) would be GH and a moderate dose of Oxandrin. Dr's prescribe low doses of BTG for indefinate ammounts of time, so in theroy you could stay on the shit at a low dose almost forever provided that you take care of your liver. Chances are your wallet would give out a long time before your liver ever would.

 

[Slider]

Bump,
Thanks guys for input. Keep it coming.

Slider

 

[Fe3]

one wise man once told me, if you want to go somewhere or even exceed, you have to juice your nuts off

come to think of it , not so wise huh

anyway it depends what you are going for competeing or just f'ing off getting pussy

what the hell, juice all year anyhow

Fe3

 

[ironmaster]

fe3

Damn, Fe3......were did you pop up from? One of the longest enrolled guys on the board, and still an "amateur bodybuilder". Don't you love these little names they assign us. Good point, though....unless you compete (or are an old fossil)....cycle.
Regards, Fe3master

 

[HansNZ]

Permanent reduction of HPTA function?
I've never heard this.
Can you site your source on this one bro? I'd like to read up on this since I'm considering HCG and Femara (and possibly even Novla) for my next cycle recovery phase.

hmmm, I have read this in some studies posted on here on a few occasions. I am not sure which threads these were. You might have to do a search.

I think the gist of the issue was that HCG use beyond the most moderate of intakes can permanently destroy your body's own ability to produce - I think - Luteinising Hormone (?).

Maybe put a post up. One of the veterens here is bound to know something.

Best of Luck.

 

[robby]

all year long i would also go with test. i was surprised, that
some voted for winny. if i'm not wrong, this wouldn't be good
for the liver....

 

[P-DUB]

Since I don't compete and lift just because it's a habit and I like too, I don't think I could do anything year round. I'm no expert (unlike some) but strictly for health purposes, why would anyone do it? Gains are nice, but it ain't worth shit of your dead. Geez...he's dead...Yeah, but he looks great!!!! Fuck that...I want to live long and healthy. I do a little more for medicinal purposes then anything (Deca and joints)! But to each their own! Just my 2 pesos!

P-DUB

 

[Slider]

Bump,
Thanks for all the input on this topic.
Karma for ya all.

Slider

P.S. I wish someone would be kind with Karma back to me one day.

 

[The Legend]

ANADROL-50....ALL FUCKING YEAR LONG!

 

[argent]

I'd have to say growth, if I could only afford it. (wringing hands like Mr. Burns)

 

[athlete03]

A relatively low to moderate dose of HGH. IMO, you don't value your health that much if you stay on AAS year round.

 

[Realgains]

I do not recommend being "on" all the time....why would you want to do this ??...are you a top competitor or pro?
Being "on" all the time almost always has a serious negative impact on cholesterol and hdl levels. This is a big deal but we lifters often forget this because you cannot actually see the damage done. Don't let anyone fool you bro....almost everyone gets a very shitty cholesterol profile with long term use. Also, be sure to not use estrogen inhibitors like arimidex as they make the cholesterol issue far worse.
Be darn sure you follow yourself with cholesterol and liver profile checks. Don't use any 17aa roid for long, if at all.
Also Nolvadex and clomid both act as estrogens in the liver and help with the cholesterol issue to some degree. I would use 20 of nolva per day most of the time.

If you insist on being "on" all the time then stay with test most of the time. Also if you do not take some H C G from time to time in order to prime your nuts then I can assure you that when you go "off" you will NEVER recovery HPTA function. Use H C G at 500 iu's per day every few months for two weeks at a time.

I would talk with Dr. Scuggs at www.newhopemed.com if you want to be "on" all the time.

 

[Realgains]

ANADROL-50....ALL FUCKING YEAR LONG!

I hope you are not serious.....this would result in serious liver problems and maybe even death if the dose was enough to promote good gains.

 

[monkeyballs]

I hope you are not serious.....this would result in serious liver problems and maybe even death if the dose was enough to promote good gains.

Come on now bro...
Of course he is joking.

 

[Realgains]

Come on now bro...
Of course he is joking.

Ya never know bro...there are some idiots on this board as you know

 

[monkeyballs]

Good point.

 

[HansNZ]

Re: I'm not that fucking stupid....

I'm not that fucking stupid...and I care about my health.

I am not "fucking stupid", and I care about my health. I also stay on all year.

I have noticed Johnboy that your posts are full of words like "stupid, or "idiots". You use these terms in abundance to describe other people. From where I am standing you seem to think that you have a monopoly on answers and that people who do things differently are "stupid".

I have researched the pros and cons of cycling vs staying on and for a number of factors chose to stay on long-term. If I thought cycling was better i'd do that. But because I choose not to, yet others do, I don't condemn everyone else as "fucking stupid."

From reading other posts I seem to be one of your "stupid" people regularly, yet those people who know me would never describe me as such. You are entitled to your opinions, yet I get sick of being labelled things such as "fucking stupid" by you perpetually for having my own opinions, or having a different experience with certain products, etc.

You remind me of my uncle who hates everything, thinks everyone else is an idiot and gets fanatical hatreds about things (in your case IP) which goes beyond reasoned objectivity. Basically his problem is that he is insecure which motivates him to lash out at the "idiots" of the world.

I don't know what your problem is, but each to their own. Just because someone else's "own" is not your own that doesn't mean they are morons.

 

[HansNZ]

I do not recommend being "on" all the time....why would you want to do this ??...are you a top competitor or pro?
Being "on" all the time almost always has a serious negative impact on cholesterol and hdl levels. This is a big deal but we lifters often forget this because you cannot actually see the damage done. Don't let anyone fool you bro....almost everyone gets a very shitty cholesterol profile with long term use. Also, be sure to not use estrogen inhibitors like arimidex as they make the cholesterol issue far worse.
Be darn sure you follow yourself with cholesterol and liver profile checks. Don't use any 17aa roid for long, if at all.
Also Nolvadex and clomid both act as estrogens in the liver and help with the cholesterol issue to some degree. I would use 20 of nolva per day most of the time.

If you insist on being "on" all the time then stay with test most of the time. Also if you do not take some H C G from time to time in order to prime your nuts then I can assure you that when you go "off" you will NEVER recovery HPTA function. Use H C G at 500 iu's per day every few months for two weeks at a time.

I would talk with Dr. Scuggs at www.newhopemed.com if you want to be "on" all the time.

I am someone who stays on for long periods.

You make some interesting points. Things like arimidex do cause higher cholesterol profiles, and excessive cholesterol levels can be dangerous.

Yet I would like to point out that high cholesterol in itself isn't a problem. Even people with low cholesterol get heart attacks. The issue is stress. The hormones released due to constant stress attack the lining of arteries and this is what causes cholesterol build ups to form.

My partner is a doctor. Of course he doesn't endorse steroid use but tells me not to get too worried about high cholesterol. In any case there are ways to partially remedy this problem such as including soy in your diet, eating EFAs, etc.

Suggesting getting blood work done is good advice. I do this regularly and have not had problems. The effects of 17aa steroids on the liver are really overrated. Alcohol is more liver toxic for instance. Just to be cautious, if I take 17aa drugs for six weeks I stop using them for 2 weeks. I am on a base of injectable testosterone permanently, so this acts as a bridge. I usually use this time to take a break from training.

I also disagree with people when they say you won't get your natural production back again. I have seen research contradicting this. Last time I finshed a 14 month cycle I got my HPTA back. It just took much longer than usual. Believe it or not, I have actually read studies showing benefits from the shut down of HPTA for extended periods.

As for HCG use, I actively avoid this because there is evidence to show it can inhibit natural test. production returning to normal post-cycle.

There are definitely down-sides to staying on long-term. But there are also health disadvantages to cycling. Long cycles tend to suffer from the same bad reputation among BBers that steroids in general suffer from among the general public. Most of this bad reputation is undeserved.

Best of luck.

 

[xmoulton508x]

In my opinion unless you are a professional bodybuilder and you make a living doing it then it's stupid to stay on year round. The short and long term consequences aren't worth it for the recreational or even a lower level bodybuilder.

To each his own .... I wouldn't stay on for more then 12 weeks but I'm not going to knock anyone for staying on all year. You just have to have a mastery of anabolic knowledge to do it safely.

 

[HansNZ]

The general public would say that those who cycle are stupid to use steroids at all. Does that make them right?

From their perspective steroids are "obviously" dangerous and only a reckless person who doesn't care for his/her health would use them.

 

[jboldman]

Re: fe3

I agree, like you, I am over fifty and never plan on coming off! Had my kids, wife loves the sex!

jb

Damn, Fe3......were did you pop up from? One of the longest enrolled guys on the board, and still an "amateur bodybuilder". Don't you love these little names they assign us. Good point, though....unless you compete (or are an old fossil)....cycle.
Regards, Fe3master

 

[monkeyballs]

hmmm, I have read this in some studies posted on here on a few occasions. I am not sure which threads these were. You might have to do a search.

I think the gist of the issue was that HCG use beyond the most moderate of intakes can permanently destroy your body's own ability to produce - I think - Luteinising Hormone (?).

Maybe put a post up. One of the veterens here is bound to know something.

Best of Luck.

I'm guessing your not too current on this. All the research that I've read states that HCG causes a spike in LH and FSH (as it is essentially a synthetic version of both) which in turn leads to an increase in T production...blah...blah...blah...shit everyone knows etc...

The only drawback that I've found is that your basically left in the same place that you stated at when you come off HCG. Effective or not, I've never read anything that suggests that HCG will cause some kind of permanent HPTA shutdown (or even partial). All the studies I've read show that it all comes back in due time. Granted, these studies are not at the super high doses the some BB's may use, but I don't buy that your balls are forever deficent if you use HCG. Not sure where you saw this bro...but I don't buy it.

Not a flame at all bro, maybe just grounds for a healthy debate.

As for year round cycling...a moderate dose of GH and Oxandrin would not be "fucking stupid" at all. In fact, if I ever come across ungodly ammounts of wealth, I'll probably do it myself when I'm about 40 and still want to pussy hunt for 18 year olds.

 

[HansNZ]

I'm guessing your not too current on this. All the research that I've read states that HCG causes a spike in LH and FSH (as it is essentially a synthetic version of both) which in turn leads to an increase in T production...blah...blah...blah...shit everyone knows etc...

The only drawback that I've found is that your basically left in the same place that you stated at when you come off HCG. Effective or not, I've never read anything that suggests that HCG will cause some kind of permanent HPTA shutdown (or even partial). All the studies I've read show that it all comes back in due time. Granted, these studies are not at the super high doses the some BB's may use, but I don't buy that your balls are forever deficent if you use HCG. Not sure where you saw this bro...but I don't buy it.

Not a flame at all bro, maybe just grounds for a healthy debate.

Appologies, let me clarify: Yes it causes a spike in LH and FSH when you use it. But I am refering here to your post-cycle natural production of these substances.

hmmmm, your comment is interesting. I swear I read about this somewhere. I wish I had saved the study now. I am pretty sure that I read that over-using HCG can cause a permanent retardation. The gist of the article was to be moderate and sparing in your HCG use. I think guys on longer cycles may tend to overuse it.

In any case maybe I am wrong.

 

[HansNZ]

OK - Update! This isn't where I read it, but I have found something in WAR refering to this:

Apparently as a result of extended use of HCG in high doses there can be "inadequate gonadal function" resulting from a rertarded lease of the body's own LH post-cycle.

Prolonged use of HCG could permanently repress the body's own production of gonadotropins.

It is important to note that these consequences are largely speculative. I can offer no studies proving this. Let's just hope that whoever posted the study that I remember reading views this thread.

 

[Slider]

Great reply’s here guys, thanks.
I have no plans to stay on all year but for sure longer than ever before.

I love cycling.

Slider

 

[monkeyballs]

OK -
Apparently as a result of extended use of HCG in high doses there can be "inadequate gonadal function" resulting from a rertarded lease of the body's own LH post-cycle.

Prolonged use of HCG could permanently repress the body's own production of gonadotropins.
.

I've read WAR bro.

"Extended" use at "high doses". It's pretty vague, and there's alot of room to play around with there.

Yes, I'm sure that if you use a dinosaurs ammount of HCG for quite some time, there could be some serious long term consquences with regards to production of GnRH.

It's safe to say a moderate dose used sparingly won't turn you into tinny tim.

If anyone has evidence to the contrary, feel free to correct me. No pride here, just want to get the facts.

 

[Realgains]

HansNZ..............Yes you are correct about the H C G....it can desensitize the testes to natural LH and prevent the return of normal natural test but only if taken in large doses for more than a month.
At 500 iu's per day there is no chance of desensitization.
H C G is almost a must if you are coming off a long cycle 12 weeks or more. You will have experienced significant testical shrinkage and the testes will be very slow to respond to LH. It is best to get the testes back to 100% size wise so they can respond to LH.

 

[go_hard_80]

No, Gchild......I wouldn't recommend test year round to anyone else either, but solidspine and I are both over 50 years old. My nuts were toast long ago, and I just plan to stay on HRT for life. NOT FOR YOUNG GUYS. I already have all the children I plan to have, am set in a longterm marriage with a woman who understands, and have accepted the health risks.
I never would advise this for ohers.

bro i dont mean to be rude but just how small do they shrink??? peas, peanuts? any ideas because that must really suck

 

[DOGGY]

I'm close to a fossil, and just bought stock in ICN Galenka...

Got the kids, and the wife, not coming off.

 

[biggerthanu450]

This is the truth:
Staying on a low dose of test (100 to 200 mg/wk) will enhance the quality of your life and keep you much bigger, stronger and energetic.
I have many friends who do this, and they get bloodwork every 12 weeks to check their lipid profile. Taking fish oils, ALA, vit.E, and doing consistent cardio will minimize any health risks assosciated with supplemental test. Proscar may also be a good option.
It's important to stay near physiological range, and not too much over 1000 ng/dl.

If you want kids don't do this! The risk of FSH and LH remaining depressed is too high.

 

[HansNZ]

This is the truth:
Staying on a low dose of test (100 to 200 mg/wk) will enhance the quality of your life and keep you much bigger, stronger and energetic. It's important to stay near physiological range, and not too much over 1000 ng/dl. If you want kids don't do this! The risk of FSH and LH remaining depressed is too high.

Interesting. I am considering supplementing with andriol (oral test.), taking it only in the morning. This will top up my test. levels yet allow my HPTA production to remain intact.

Have you looked into this?

 

[liquidmuscle]

i have been using cyp for 8wks then enanthate for 8wks no probs yet but i am only doing 100mgs every wk....

 

[crimson coal]

I'm doing test and Gh year round. Not having kids and I am close to 40. Actually just got back on GH because of money issues I was off for a bit. Back on track now and hoping to stay that way.

 

[ironmaster]

Go Hard 80......actually, my nuts look pretty good.......I'd post a pic but I'm not "Platinum"....lol. Every couple months, I run 25,000iu of HCG over a two week period along with a couple clomids a day.......plumps the boys right up and keeps the "flow" going. This is while still using gear of course.
In fact, you guys on long cycles should try this somewhere in the middle. You will actually gain size and strength during the 2 weeks of treatment. It's fluid retention, but I bet you hit some max lifts!
Crimson coal.........GH is just the best thing for us older guys, isn't it. I feel good, great mental attitude, strong immune system, no aches and pains (esp. with a little deca in the program). It pisses me off that the medical community wants to keep us from having what we need and the pharm's fuck us on the price (I have an Rx). Should be nobodies damn business what I do as long as I'm not harming anyone else. But I sure can buy all the fuckin cigs and booze I want.....go kill someone DUI.........it's stupid beyond belief.
Hey mail me about the "well that won't go dry".

 

[hempster]

hgh at 42

same with me
been doing gh for 5 months and dont plan on ever stopping .
and just lately added some btg var to the mix ,can we say happy camper
peace
hempster

 

[badazzwhitedude]

I have just started staying on all year long myself. I will do 10 week cycles of which in between will bridge with small amounts of D-bol or Primo. Helps keep the gains and strength up. I haven't lost any of the 20lbs I have gained after my last cycle, and I'm only taking 10mg of D-bol in the morning.

 

[bungybung]

sustanon 2x /week at the least...Forever.

 

[DTOX]

If I was going to stay on full time I'd probably go with 100mg-200mg/wk of test cyp, or an even longer ester like decanoate or bucilate (sp?).

I'd also probably throw in some really long acting nandrolone like Anadur or Laurabolin for a few months here and there.

 

[str8cubano]

you can forget the winnny depot unless you want liver cancer at an early age...oiled up all year isn't a great idea, but if you must, test

 

[Slider]

Karma for all ya guys for keeping this an interesting on going topic.
Ok so for the ones who say test all year like cyc..etc. would you still do Clomid after a larger cycle before running the small doses of test?
e.x. Let’s say clomid for 3wks. Every 3.5mths???
Anyone with clomid experience and AS all year?

Slider

 

[Slider]

Bump.

 

[DTOX]

Or you could just throw in a little bit of liquidex in...

Truth is I think if you kept the dosages down to 100mg-200mg/wk and just used test that you would greatly decrease LH/FSH but I don't think it would shut you down!

If you look at the dosages they had to use for the "male birth control" studies I think it was at least 300mg/wk and probably higher. (I also think this why they looked at the nandrolones which shut you down at a lower dosage).

Your nuts would probably shrink but I think they'd still be chugging out a couple of spermies.

Karma for all ya guys for keeping this an interesting on going topic.
Ok so for the ones who say test all year like cyc..etc. would you still do Clomid after a larger cycle before running the small doses of test?
e.x. Let’s say clomid for 3wks. Every 3.5mths???
Anyone with clomid experience and AS all year?

Slider

 

[drveejay11]

There isn't anything I would take all year long.

I could NOT agree anymore!

 

[Slider]

Thanks.
I'm running Liquidex @.5/ed for the whole duration of my 20wk. cycle. I’m at wk. 6 right now.
I will run Liquidex well past the end of the cycle but still researching on if I should break from it and when? Maybe when I run Clomid? Anyone know if Liquidex interferes with Clomid?

Thanks,

Slider

 

[Slider]

Bump,
anymore on this?

Slider

 

[Dr.RobertBanner]

definitely primo. If your on all the time you don't want anything w/ side or that's harsh on your body. Low doses of test would be my next course.

 

[Slider]

Bump,
Thanks for all the good input.

Also does anyone have a chart of half-life values and/or time release on any AS esters?

Thanks in adavance, for you Karma.

 

[Slider]

Bump,
Anyone able to help on AS life values?

What I need is input on which test would be best to run at medium doses with least injects during the week, but will give me modarete gains and keep the hardness?

Thanks in advance, Karma for you.

Slider

 

[dootyd3]

i couldn't afford all year long but, it would be winny at low dosages.

 

[Baby Gorilla]

Oh boy....

Don't give me negative Karma for this, but.....

Are you flipping nuts???

The common factor I see in all the stories of athletes who are screwed up from 'roids involves either (1) excessive dosages and/or (2) excessive durations.

The key to getting the benefits of juice without undue health risks is to use them wisely. Even a very intense cycle done for two short cycles in a year is moderately safe. You body needs time off so it can adapt to being itself.

Myself, since juice is too expensive anyway, I might do a cycle once or twice in a year (max was 3 cycles). Take at least a month off between cycles (that means no juice). Whenever I'm not juicing, I'm using stuff like tribulus to naturally stimulate elevated T levels for the edge it still gives me. So you know, in a 4 month period while not on juice (just using tribulus), I gained 7 lbs of muscle by training hard and eating right. That's probably quite good for someone not on juice.

Take care of your body. You'll be together for a long time (we hope).

I say you should find natural T stimulants to use when not on cycles. You'll get less gains as compared to juice, but your body will be better for it in the long run as compared to living off juice.

 

[solidspine]

For me the problem is not what gear, but my job doesn't allow me the time I need in the gym!

If I did not travel and could be in the gym 5 times a week, I would simply be on an extened growth, test, anabolic cycle year around.

 

[Slider]

Thanks guys for your input.

Karma for all.

Slider

 

[solidspine]

I know I voted twice, but now I'm changing my mind and think test & growth all year would be my pick.

It is interesting to see most guys prefer primo,

My results with primo have been that you would have to be on

all year to see anything happen.

 

[RADAR]

test is where its at....i'm running up in yrs also like ironmaster & solidspine when i'm not cycling i'm running test at 250mg every 2 weeks ,and yes the gains keep comming i will be considering HGH soon!!! RADAR