Staying on all year? Input.

[HansNZ]

Re: I'm not that fucking stupid....

I'm not that fucking stupid...and I care about my health.

I am not "fucking stupid", and I care about my health. I also stay on all year.

I have noticed Johnboy that your posts are full of words like "stupid, or "idiots". You use these terms in abundance to describe other people. From where I am standing you seem to think that you have a monopoly on answers and that people who do things differently are "stupid".

I have researched the pros and cons of cycling vs staying on and for a number of factors chose to stay on long-term. If I thought cycling was better i'd do that. But because I choose not to, yet others do, I don't condemn everyone else as "fucking stupid."

From reading other posts I seem to be one of your "stupid" people regularly, yet those people who know me would never describe me as such. You are entitled to your opinions, yet I get sick of being labelled things such as "fucking stupid" by you perpetually for having my own opinions, or having a different experience with certain products, etc.

You remind me of my uncle who hates everything, thinks everyone else is an idiot and gets fanatical hatreds about things (in your case IP) which goes beyond reasoned objectivity. Basically his problem is that he is insecure which motivates him to lash out at the "idiots" of the world.

I don't know what your problem is, but each to their own. Just because someone else's "own" is not your own that doesn't mean they are morons.

 

[HansNZ]

I do not recommend being "on" all the time....why would you want to do this ??...are you a top competitor or pro?
Being "on" all the time almost always has a serious negative impact on cholesterol and hdl levels. This is a big deal but we lifters often forget this because you cannot actually see the damage done. Don't let anyone fool you bro....almost everyone gets a very shitty cholesterol profile with long term use. Also, be sure to not use estrogen inhibitors like arimidex as they make the cholesterol issue far worse.
Be darn sure you follow yourself with cholesterol and liver profile checks. Don't use any 17aa roid for long, if at all.
Also Nolvadex and clomid both act as estrogens in the liver and help with the cholesterol issue to some degree. I would use 20 of nolva per day most of the time.

If you insist on being "on" all the time then stay with test most of the time. Also if you do not take some H C G from time to time in order to prime your nuts then I can assure you that when you go "off" you will NEVER recovery HPTA function. Use H C G at 500 iu's per day every few months for two weeks at a time.

I would talk with Dr. Scuggs at www.newhopemed.com if you want to be "on" all the time.

I am someone who stays on for long periods.

You make some interesting points. Things like arimidex do cause higher cholesterol profiles, and excessive cholesterol levels can be dangerous.

Yet I would like to point out that high cholesterol in itself isn't a problem. Even people with low cholesterol get heart attacks. The issue is stress. The hormones released due to constant stress attack the lining of arteries and this is what causes cholesterol build ups to form.

My partner is a doctor. Of course he doesn't endorse steroid use but tells me not to get too worried about high cholesterol. In any case there are ways to partially remedy this problem such as including soy in your diet, eating EFAs, etc.

Suggesting getting blood work done is good advice. I do this regularly and have not had problems. The effects of 17aa steroids on the liver are really overrated. Alcohol is more liver toxic for instance. Just to be cautious, if I take 17aa drugs for six weeks I stop using them for 2 weeks. I am on a base of injectable testosterone permanently, so this acts as a bridge. I usually use this time to take a break from training.

I also disagree with people when they say you won't get your natural production back again. I have seen research contradicting this. Last time I finshed a 14 month cycle I got my HPTA back. It just took much longer than usual. Believe it or not, I have actually read studies showing benefits from the shut down of HPTA for extended periods.

As for HCG use, I actively avoid this because there is evidence to show it can inhibit natural test. production returning to normal post-cycle.

There are definitely down-sides to staying on long-term. But there are also health disadvantages to cycling. Long cycles tend to suffer from the same bad reputation among BBers that steroids in general suffer from among the general public. Most of this bad reputation is undeserved.

Best of luck.

 

[xmoulton508x]

In my opinion unless you are a professional bodybuilder and you make a living doing it then it's stupid to stay on year round. The short and long term consequences aren't worth it for the recreational or even a lower level bodybuilder.

To each his own .... I wouldn't stay on for more then 12 weeks but I'm not going to knock anyone for staying on all year. You just have to have a mastery of anabolic knowledge to do it safely.

 

[HansNZ]

The general public would say that those who cycle are stupid to use steroids at all. Does that make them right?

From their perspective steroids are "obviously" dangerous and only a reckless person who doesn't care for his/her health would use them.

 

[jboldman]

Re: fe3

I agree, like you, I am over fifty and never plan on coming off! Had my kids, wife loves the sex!

jb

Damn, Fe3......were did you pop up from? One of the longest enrolled guys on the board, and still an "amateur bodybuilder". Don't you love these little names they assign us. Good point, though....unless you compete (or are an old fossil)....cycle.
Regards, Fe3master

 

[monkeyballs]

hmmm, I have read this in some studies posted on here on a few occasions. I am not sure which threads these were. You might have to do a search.

I think the gist of the issue was that HCG use beyond the most moderate of intakes can permanently destroy your body's own ability to produce - I think - Luteinising Hormone (?).

Maybe put a post up. One of the veterens here is bound to know something.

Best of Luck.

I'm guessing your not too current on this. All the research that I've read states that HCG causes a spike in LH and FSH (as it is essentially a synthetic version of both) which in turn leads to an increase in T production...blah...blah...blah...shit everyone knows etc...

The only drawback that I've found is that your basically left in the same place that you stated at when you come off HCG. Effective or not, I've never read anything that suggests that HCG will cause some kind of permanent HPTA shutdown (or even partial). All the studies I've read show that it all comes back in due time. Granted, these studies are not at the super high doses the some BB's may use, but I don't buy that your balls are forever deficent if you use HCG. Not sure where you saw this bro...but I don't buy it.

Not a flame at all bro, maybe just grounds for a healthy debate.

As for year round cycling...a moderate dose of GH and Oxandrin would not be "fucking stupid" at all. In fact, if I ever come across ungodly ammounts of wealth, I'll probably do it myself when I'm about 40 and still want to pussy hunt for 18 year olds.

 

[HansNZ]

I'm guessing your not too current on this. All the research that I've read states that HCG causes a spike in LH and FSH (as it is essentially a synthetic version of both) which in turn leads to an increase in T production...blah...blah...blah...shit everyone knows etc...

The only drawback that I've found is that your basically left in the same place that you stated at when you come off HCG. Effective or not, I've never read anything that suggests that HCG will cause some kind of permanent HPTA shutdown (or even partial). All the studies I've read show that it all comes back in due time. Granted, these studies are not at the super high doses the some BB's may use, but I don't buy that your balls are forever deficent if you use HCG. Not sure where you saw this bro...but I don't buy it.

Not a flame at all bro, maybe just grounds for a healthy debate.

Appologies, let me clarify: Yes it causes a spike in LH and FSH when you use it. But I am refering here to your post-cycle natural production of these substances.

hmmmm, your comment is interesting. I swear I read about this somewhere. I wish I had saved the study now. I am pretty sure that I read that over-using HCG can cause a permanent retardation. The gist of the article was to be moderate and sparing in your HCG use. I think guys on longer cycles may tend to overuse it.

In any case maybe I am wrong.

 

[HansNZ]

OK - Update! This isn't where I read it, but I have found something in WAR refering to this:

Apparently as a result of extended use of HCG in high doses there can be "inadequate gonadal function" resulting from a rertarded lease of the body's own LH post-cycle.

Prolonged use of HCG could permanently repress the body's own production of gonadotropins.

It is important to note that these consequences are largely speculative. I can offer no studies proving this. Let's just hope that whoever posted the study that I remember reading views this thread.

 

[Slider]

Great reply’s here guys, thanks.
I have no plans to stay on all year but for sure longer than ever before.

I love cycling.

Slider

 

[monkeyballs]

OK -
Apparently as a result of extended use of HCG in high doses there can be "inadequate gonadal function" resulting from a rertarded lease of the body's own LH post-cycle.

Prolonged use of HCG could permanently repress the body's own production of gonadotropins.
.

I've read WAR bro.

"Extended" use at "high doses". It's pretty vague, and there's alot of room to play around with there.

Yes, I'm sure that if you use a dinosaurs ammount of HCG for quite some time, there could be some serious long term consquences with regards to production of GnRH.

It's safe to say a moderate dose used sparingly won't turn you into tinny tim.

If anyone has evidence to the contrary, feel free to correct me. No pride here, just want to get the facts.