Snatch High Pulls

[Tom Treutlein]

Is it possible to do these without dropping the bar, as is normally advocated? I'm not sure if it'd be safe, so I just want to make it clear what I should be doing.

http://strengthtraining.asimba.com/fitness_info/exercise171.html

Is this accurate? I figure I'd do that, but not drop the bar.

 

[coolcolj]

Just bounced it on your thigh, there is a clip of me doing em this way in my log, a few workouts back

 

[kiloamp]

Is it possible to do these without dropping the bar, as is normally advocated? I'm not sure if it'd be safe, so I just want to make it clear what I should be doing.

http://strengthtraining.asimba.com/fitness_info/exercise171.html

Is this accurate? I figure I'd do that, but not drop the bar.

The lifter on the clip actually shows pretty good technique. You shouldn't have to drop them but I've seen world class lifters who do. A hook grip will help you hang on to the bar but don't hesitate to use straps if you're having a hard time maintaining your grip.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

How does one use a hook grip?

 

[Madcow2]

For reps it's a lot easier to use straps. Hook grip can get eaten up pretty badly returning heavy weight for reps. You could also use tape for better grip and to absorb some of the wear but for this exercise there's really not much point in abusing yourself (plus I am assuming that if you planned to compete you'd work on the full snatch adequately to where using straps here wouldn't interefere too greatly).

With the high pull versions of the lift you'll find two sub variations. Some like to pull the weight very high. Others, and I fall into this category, use this lift to improve the full snatch and train it heavier than the snatch. This means I don't pull the bar to the chest, I pull it past the point of explosion where I am fully extended on my toes with shoulders shrugged. The bar becomes weightless, floats up slightly, and then returns itself to arms length upon which point I reset for another rep or finish. The positive for this this method is that the weight is greatly increased (that last extra foot of explostion is a damn big foot). The benefit of pulling it higher is that when dropping under the weight in the full snatch you pull yourself under so this enables a bit of training on that last bit but IMO the pulling is totally different so I don't see a lot of sense in it and I haven't read a compelling explanation from anyone else.

Just for info, you can also do these with the clean grip (around shoulder width), and either variation can be performed from the hang position (either high hang or low hang) so you don't have to pull from the floor. Another good exercise for training dynamic explosion is using the clean grip and performing dynamic shrugs from the mid or high hang. You can use an absolute boatload of weight (work up slowly) and you will see the results in the mirror within a few weeks. IMO this is very valuable for athletes who can benefit from learning to generate major explosive power but are under a time constraint that makes learning more technical lifts - power clean etc - less than ideal. One training session and they are usually good to go. Very popular with the former FSU strength coach - I believe he's with the Bulldogs now.

The back was made for dynamic lifting, nothing makes it respond like this stuff. Plus you get the benefit of rewiring your CNS by learning to produce more explosive power (like turning yourself into a dragster). Huge translation to athletics because acceleration and speed is where it's at.

coolcolj: good to see you here from FI. I noticed your journal the other day.

 

[kiloamp]

How does one use a hook grip?

It's really simple. When you grip the bar, also grip on to your thumb. It will be uncomfortable at first but does get better the more you use it. Madcow2 gives some really good advice in his post above, I would have pretty much said the same thing if I had more time last night. Also, I always use straps with pulls except before a competition.

 

[kiloamp]

With the high pull versions of the lift you'll find two sub variations. Some like to pull the weight very high. Others, and I fall into this category, use this lift to improve the full snatch and train it heavier than the snatch. This means I don't pull the bar to the chest, I pull it past the point of explosion where I am fully extended on my toes with shoulders shrugged. The bar becomes weightless, floats up slightly, and then returns itself to arms length upon which point I reset for another rep or finish. The positive for this this method is that the weight is greatly increased (that last extra foot of explostion is a damn big foot). The benefit of pulling it higher is that when dropping under the weight in the full snatch you pull yourself under so this enables a bit of training on that last bit but IMO the pulling is totally different so I don't see a lot of sense in it and I haven't read a compelling explanation from anyone else.

Madcow2, well written post ... good advice. I agree with you on the pulls as well. Many Olympic lifting coaches that I see these days are not having their lifters do much if any high pulls. Ideally they should compliment the pull of the snatch or clean but what normally happens is the lifter ends up reinforcing bad mechanics i.e. putting the weight out in front, rounding out the back to pull the bar up to their chin and rebending the knees to drop down giving the bar a higher relative position to the body. If done correctly (there are coaches who teach all of the above as correct) they will improve your pull under the bar. I do them from the hang only and usually pull as high as my sternum and I do have good flexibility. I've snatched 130Kg(286Lbs) put rarely use more than 70Kg(154Lbs) for high pulls. Also, as you mention, I only do them with straps.

 

[c gheller]

Mad cow. You talk about doing dynamic shrugs from a mid or high hang position. Could you explain the movement and the meaning of mid or high hang please bro?

 

[Madcow2]

Okay - this is a 6 page thread at Fortified Iron (HIT and PSU Football). My involvement starts on page 5 which is linked. Just look for my posts in the thread because I explain the dynamic shrug (power shrug) in a good amount of detail. The rest of the thread is also worthwhile but obviously doesn't deal exclusively with the topic you want.
http://www.fortifiediron.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=7109&hl=shrug&st=100

I also give an abreviated explanation here:
http://www.fortifiediron.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=4668&hl=shrug

Anyway, there are some variations to the typical hang position and you'll find that a lot of people refer to them differently.
1) Just below the knees (this is a very low hang position and rarely used)
2) Slightly above the knees (typical)
3) Somewhere around mid-thigh (where the bar sits with just a slight athletic stance and bend in the knees - 15 degrees from vertical as measured by the knee joint)

Most people will perform the power shrug from #3. I think that if you are totally supplementing out all other pulls and relying exclusively on this exercise to build explosive power #2 is a better choice. No one does these from below the knees and overall it's a rarer variation in all the lifts but some people use it.

 

[Madcow2]

Madcow2, well written post ... good advice. I agree with you on the pulls as well. Many Olympic lifting coaches that I see these days are not having their lifters do much if any high pulls. Ideally they should compliment the pull of the snatch or clean but what normally happens is the lifter ends up reinforcing bad mechanics i.e. putting the weight out in front, rounding out the back to pull the bar up to their chin and rebending the knees to drop down giving the bar a higher relative position to the body. If done correctly (there are coaches who teach all of the above as correct) they will improve your pull under the bar. I do them from the hang only and usually pull as high as my sternum and I do have good flexibility. I've snatched 130Kg(286Lbs) put rarely use more than 70Kg(154Lbs) for high pulls. Also, as you mention, I only do them with straps.

Great snatch (always an awkward compliment on a message board ). If you don't mind providing best clean/total/BW I'd be interested (and I understand if you would rather not). I typically used high pulls in a training cycle anywhere from 75-115% at the broadest range of best full lift. It works nicely as to improve your pull with very heavy weights and ends up translating well especially when close to and above a relevant max. Obviously you miss any additional training for pulling under the bar but if someone isn't ignoring the full lifts and isn't deficient in the area, I'm not really sure how much the high pull helps with that and I've always felt it was marginal at best and more than offset by the ability to learn to accomodate heavier weight in the full lift. Do you have thoughts?

 

[kiloamp]

Great snatch (always an awkward compliment on a message board ). If you don't mind providing best clean/total/BW I'd be interested (and I understand if you would rather not). I typically used high pulls in a training cycle anywhere from 75-115% at the broadest range of best full lift. It works nicely as to improve your pull with very heavy weights and ends up translating well especially when close to and above a relevant max. Obviously you miss any additional training for pulling under the bar but if someone isn't ignoring the full lifts and isn't deficient in the area, I'm not really sure how much the high pull helps with that and I've always felt it was marginal at best and more than offset by the ability to learn to accomodate heavier weight in the full lift. Do you have thoughts?

Madcow2, my best lifts were 130Kg SN and 165Kg CJ (163Lbs) at around 86Kg bodyweight. I stopped doing high pulls for years just favoring snatch and clean pulls as you described above. I started doing high pulls again because I was cutting my pull on my lifts and needed something to help get a little extra height at the top of my pull and also help with pulling under the bar(older and slower I guess.) When I was lifting at my all time best I wasn't doing high pulls so you're probably right in saying the amount they help is likely marginal.

 

[coolcolj]

coolcolj: good to see you here from FI. I noticed your journal the other day.

I've been here a long time

 

[c gheller]

Madcow. Top read Bro. Karma to you.

 

[Madcow2]

kiloamp - really nice lifts. I'm going to give you credit for another 200lbs on the clean though. You short changed yourself on the conversion with a typo. I can relate to getting older and slower. So many fluke injuries. It seems like one after another and every one is a long term recovery (torn labrum/shoulder, did something to my back carrying a stationary bike up stairs, severely sprained ankle due to inversion from falling down stairs on separate occasion - and this is only the past 18 months). I long to pull a muscle that heals in 4 weeks (I take that back and knock on wood - no more pain, just let me train).