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Secret to chest growth

HansNZ

New member
For years I have been struggling to get my chest to grow better.

I have consulted personal trainers...

I have been assisted by experienced BBer friends...

I have been part of many threads here on this topic...

I have consulted several training manuals...

I was at the gym the other day and yet another experienced BBer was helping me train my chest. Once again I was discussing this issue. This new gym instructor overheard the conversation. She asked me to lie back and do a set on the bench press. She then said "push your elbows out wider" and walked away.

Voila! I have never had such an amazing pump. I have had the most satisfying muscle ache since then. How is it that no one suggested this before?
 
hmm, we've all been taught to keep our elbows in. i dont see how elbows out would help build better chest. i have done elbows out before (when i first started training), these days i only do elbows in close to the body *shrugs*. Everytime i do elbows out, my lats seem to come into work, but maybe thats just me.
 
I know exactly what you mean. I too had the same problem. It wasn't until I read one of Mike Mentzers books that I picked up on that very important tip. I thought I had them out wide enough, I guess not. Progress with my dips and incline is much better now, and so is over all pec developement.

Good luck with your continuing progress. I'm sure within a matter of months you will be coming back to tell us all how you've made gains in this area like never before. :D - C3
 
Careful with that. I almost injured my shoulder doing that. Don't go heavy if you flare your elbows out.
 
I have always flared my elbows and used a wide grip. You know what?. . . . .It has built a good chest structure for me.

Here is what my bench grip looks like:


|_0_|
 
I think one of the many reasons people don't see their chest growing like they want is the split. Some people do shoulders, lats or triceps the day after chest in their split, which doesn't allow for full recovery of the chest prior to re-ripping.

HansNZ, I will be curious to see if this works for you long term. Sometimes changing the plane will result in a pump/soreness, not because it's more isolated or better, but just because it's different/new. Just like I work my hamstrings all the time, but if I did a prone leg curl, I'd probably get sore, just because I never work my hammies in that plane of action. Keep us posted!
 
Legion Kreinak2 said:


Wrong:
Intensity, Progression, Nutrition, Recovery = Mass & Strength Increase

Well, that would go without saying, wouldn't it? DUH! I cant believe you actually posted that, lol. Isnt that what training is all about? LOL
 
I agree with both of you. However, kronk, he makes a good point. As much as you know of it as a "duh" thing, 90% of trainees are fixated on some one secret "trick" or secret exercise that will give them the magic chest. They spend so long searching for it that they're stuck at a 200 lb bench for 10 years :)
 
Well, that would go without saying, wouldn't it? DUH! I cant believe you actually posted that, lol. Isnt that what training is all about? LOL

Not to rag on you LK... but that cracked me up too....

On the pullover note.. I totally agree with kronk.. I use it to polish off my chest with 2 sets at the end of my chest workout... I get an UNBELIEVABLE chest pump.... Feels like my chest almost doubled in size..... I usually go heavy and try to crank off 8-10 reps... this also can fry your tris... BADLY!


In regards to the elbows being flared, it bothers some peoples rotator cuffs and others it doesnt... I think its just best to listen to your body on something like this....

my 2 pennies
 
Legion Kreinak2 said:


Isn't that PL style, CCJ?

not necessarily

but I sure feel it in my pecs.
All I do is explosive close grip upright weighted dips and 14inch grip (thumbs touching smooth area - pretty close grip) explosive flat benchpresses (shoulder blades tucked)lowered to my upper abs, and my pecs are getting bigger and bigger every week.
That's all I do that would hit my pecs, although overhead presses do get em pumped as well.
 
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The amount of guys i see doing 300 pound flat bench with no chest development is amazing.

I can't remember the last time i did flat bench, but my chest is growing fine.
 
Debaser said:
Also, I thought pullovers were meant to be a back exercise...

Limited Range Pullovers are totally different. I will describe it later, but basically you are targeting the pectoralis minor. It is one of the only way to directly overload this muscle.
 
I believe Arnold S. also though they were good for teens to do to stretch the ribcage, before the growth plates closed.
 
kronk said:


Limited Range Pullovers are totally different. I will describe it later, but basically you are targeting the pectoralis minor. It is one of the only way to directly overload this muscle.


kronk,
I for one am interested in what your talking about here, can you explain this excersise ?
Thanks
 
kronk,
I for one am interested in what your talking about here, can you explain this excersise ?
Thanks

Your pectoral minor rests underneath the pectoral major... you can't see this specific muscle... However, pullovers targets it, and when your pectoral minor grows, it pushes out your pectoral major giving you a fuller looking chest....

Heres is an animated description

I get an absolutely incredible pump from doing these.... I'm up to using 110lb dumbells for reps...

Try tossing in 2 sets of 7-10 reps at the end of your chest routine... You'll love em and your weights will go up quick..
 
HansNZ said:
For years I have been struggling to get my chest to grow better.

I have consulted personal trainers...

I have been assisted by experienced BBer friends...

I have been part of many threads here on this topic...

I have consulted several training manuals...

I was at the gym the other day and yet another experienced BBer was helping me train my chest. Once again I was discussing this issue. This new gym instructor overheard the conversation. She asked me to lie back and do a set on the bench press. She then said "push your elbows out wider" and walked away.

Voila! I have never had such an amazing pump. I have had the most satisfying muscle ache since then. How is it that no one suggested this before?

Out of the mouths of babes. :)
 
Wraith said:



kronk,
I for one am interested in what your talking about here, can you explain this excersise ?
Thanks

Here is the article I spoke about. (Dr. Bones, good post btw)

Chest: Nail the Pec Minor!

The pectoralis minor is a thin, flat muscle lying beneath the larger pectoralis major. It extends laterally and upward, originating from the sternal ends of the upper ribs (3rd-5th) and inserting onto the coracoid process of the scapula. The pec minor pulls the scapula forward and downward and can raise the ribs, thus aiding in forceful inhalation.

The following tip is derived from former Ironman contributor and author of several strength books, Fred Koch. To increase chest size, you have to train both the pec major and minor. The minor tends to get overlooked since it's not as glamorous as the major. Koch notes that the great upper-chest development of swimmers is due to the pec minor which is responsible for half of the freestyle stroke. So how do you train the pec minor without getting wet?


Perform limited-range dumbbell pullovers on a flat bench

According to Koch, the key to this exercise is to keep the elbows close to the head (within the lines of the shoulders) and to use a short range of motion (ROM). If you have a hard time getting into this position, consider Active Release Techniques (ART) for the following muscles: subscapularis, latismus dorsi, teres major, long head of the triceps brachii, and serratus anterior. Visit ActiveRelease.com to find a provider in your area.

Also, according to ART practitioner, Dr. Mark Lindsay, a sling pattern exists between the pectoralis minor and the short head of the biceps. In addition, Dr. Lindsay has noticed a tendency of the pec minor to adhere to the major. In order for the pec minor to function properly, you should free up any adhesions that may exist. If ART isn't an option, you can always stretch your lats by simply hanging from a chin-up bar with one arm. (Scratching your armpit or eating a banana is optional.)

Keep in mind that in most shoulder exercises, the pec minor functions as a stabilizer for the scapula, and not as a prime mover. In the limited-range pullover, however, it acts as a prime mover. Traditionally, this exercise has been touted to improve winging scapulae, but in reality, it does the opposite. The lats are also involved in this movement, and they actually end up pulling your shoulder blades apart! (Poliquin, 1997)

Now, you often hear horror stories about the pullover exercise and, to a certain extent, they're true. For instance, according to Durall et al: "…subacromial impingement can also be exacerbated by exercises that involve excessive flexion. The pullover exercise performed supine with free weights or on a machine forces the rotator cuff tendons and bursa against the undersurface of the acromion when the arms are hyperflexed. This exercise can be made safer by simply limiting flexion to the normal physiological limits or a comfortable ROM."

What this simply means is that if you have any shoulder problems, you might want to avoid this exercise altogether. Yes, performing pullovers on a decline bench is a much safer option to reduce the amount of shoulder flexion, but unfortunately, the pec minor doesn't get overloaded in this position. Okay, enough talk, let's learn to do the darned exercise already!

Cup a dumbbell between both hands and lay back onto a flat bench. With your arms fully extended above your face, carefully lower the weight until your outstretched arms are in line with your body. Keep the small of your back pressed against the bench and brace the abdominals throughout to protect your lower back.

Make sure the elbows stay in (don't let them flare out) or else the lats will kick in. Elbows should be directly beside your ears in the bottom position. Raise the dumbbell in an arcing motion only about six to eight inches, or 45 degrees from horizontal. Again, keep your arms straight throughout, and remember, this is a limited ROM exercise to emphasize the pec minor. You'll actually feel the muscle contract under your chin!

I must reiterate: keep the abdominals tight! Don't allow the back to arch excessively as this movement is notorious for abdominal herniations. The abs are recruited as heavy stabilizers in this movement—just another bonus!

If you're still not convinced about the importance of training the pec minor, then listen up. According to Koch, there are feedback systems within the body to protect you from developing serious imbalances. Subsequently, the body may slow down or even halt the development of the pec major if the minor is underdeveloped. Bottom line: training the minor will make a major difference!
 
louden_swain said:
I have always flared my elbows and used a wide grip. You know what?. . . . .It has built a good chest structure for me.

Here is what my bench grip looks like:


|_0_|

So basically you juse use a wide grip? Do you consciously try to make your elbows go out as far as you can make them go?
 
kronk said:


Here is the article I spoke about. (Dr. Bones, good post btw)

Chest: Nail the Pec Minor!

The pectoralis minor is a thin, flat muscle lying beneath the larger pectoralis major. It extends laterally and upward, originating from the sternal ends of the upper ribs (3rd-5th) and inserting onto the coracoid process of the scapula. The pec minor pulls the scapula forward and downward and can raise the ribs, thus aiding in forceful inhalation.

The following tip is derived from former Ironman contributor and author of several strength books, Fred Koch. To increase chest size, you have to train both the pec major and minor. The minor tends to get overlooked since it's not as glamorous as the major. Koch notes that the great upper-chest development of swimmers is due to the pec minor which is responsible for half of the freestyle stroke. So how do you train the pec minor without getting wet?


Perform limited-range dumbbell pullovers on a flat bench

According to Koch, the key to this exercise is to keep the elbows close to the head (within the lines of the shoulders) and to use a short range of motion (ROM). If you have a hard time getting into this position, consider Active Release Techniques (ART) for the following muscles: subscapularis, latismus dorsi, teres major, long head of the triceps brachii, and serratus anterior. Visit ActiveRelease.com to find a provider in your area.

Also, according to ART practitioner, Dr. Mark Lindsay, a sling pattern exists between the pectoralis minor and the short head of the biceps. In addition, Dr. Lindsay has noticed a tendency of the pec minor to adhere to the major. In order for the pec minor to function properly, you should free up any adhesions that may exist. If ART isn't an option, you can always stretch your lats by simply hanging from a chin-up bar with one arm. (Scratching your armpit or eating a banana is optional.)

Keep in mind that in most shoulder exercises, the pec minor functions as a stabilizer for the scapula, and not as a prime mover. In the limited-range pullover, however, it acts as a prime mover. Traditionally, this exercise has been touted to improve winging scapulae, but in reality, it does the opposite. The lats are also involved in this movement, and they actually end up pulling your shoulder blades apart! (Poliquin, 1997)

Now, you often hear horror stories about the pullover exercise and, to a certain extent, they're true. For instance, according to Durall et al: "…subacromial impingement can also be exacerbated by exercises that involve excessive flexion. The pullover exercise performed supine with free weights or on a machine forces the rotator cuff tendons and bursa against the undersurface of the acromion when the arms are hyperflexed. This exercise can be made safer by simply limiting flexion to the normal physiological limits or a comfortable ROM."

What this simply means is that if you have any shoulder problems, you might want to avoid this exercise altogether. Yes, performing pullovers on a decline bench is a much safer option to reduce the amount of shoulder flexion, but unfortunately, the pec minor doesn't get overloaded in this position. Okay, enough talk, let's learn to do the darned exercise already!

Cup a dumbbell between both hands and lay back onto a flat bench. With your arms fully extended above your face, carefully lower the weight until your outstretched arms are in line with your body. Keep the small of your back pressed against the bench and brace the abdominals throughout to protect your lower back.

Make sure the elbows stay in (don't let them flare out) or else the lats will kick in. Elbows should be directly beside your ears in the bottom position. Raise the dumbbell in an arcing motion only about six to eight inches, or 45 degrees from horizontal. Again, keep your arms straight throughout, and remember, this is a limited ROM exercise to emphasize the pec minor. You'll actually feel the muscle contract under your chin!

I must reiterate: keep the abdominals tight! Don't allow the back to arch excessively as this movement is notorious for abdominal herniations. The abs are recruited as heavy stabilizers in this movement—just another bonus!

If you're still not convinced about the importance of training the pec minor, then listen up. According to Koch, there are feedback systems within the body to protect you from developing serious imbalances. Subsequently, the body may slow down or even halt the development of the pec major if the minor is underdeveloped. Bottom line: training the minor will make a major difference!


good info, thanks :) gonna try it....I guess I neglected this for a while
 
Here is a nice afterburner:

- Limited range pullovers supersetted with close grip EZ barbell front raise

After you directly tageted the p. Minor with the pullovers, it has to work pretty hard as stabillizer while your relatively fresh front delts drive the P. minor insane...
 
I still love to bench, but if I want to specifically target chest I would start like:

- incline (20-30 degrees) flyes
1 * 8
1 * 6 triple dropset
- incline dumbell press
1 * 8
1 * 6 triple dropset
- flat dumbell flye supersetted with dips
1 * 8 + dips to failure
1 * 6 + dips to failure
- flat dumbell press supersetted with cable cross
1 * 8 + 1 * 10
1 * 6 + 1 * 10
- partial pullovers supersetted with front raises
1 * 10 + 1 * 10
1 * 8 + 1 * 10

I feel the handspacing on incline barbell press is too far appart to have the P. minor significantly involved.

Another fine twist is to do the incline dumbell presses with a neutral grip on a 60-70 degrees angled bench while keeping the elbow in front of the body (the dumbells should touch eachother during the whole range of motion)

To further enhance the squeeze you position your inclined bench in front of a cable cross station , attach the cables to your wrists and add a small weight, that will annoyingly try to spread your arms during the incline press (you have to squeeze extra hard to keep the dumbells touching)
 
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MiniColemans said:



good info, thanks :) gonna try it....I guess I neglected this for a while

No sweat brother. Its an area that almost everyone neglects. Most people think they are hitting it and their chest is growing, but if you hit the pec minor direct and get it real strong, you chest will get grow a LOT faster.
 
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